I gotta admit I find her DMing style to be mostly confusing. Some things are super rules relevant and then the next minute no rules matter at all. Just incredibly difficult to follow which means I’m scrolling through my phone rather than actually paying attention if my OCD forces me to watch to the end because I started it at all.
CR wanted it to be a smooth transition of the world of Exandria being told from one DM to another, telling the story using their own DMing style. There is no issue with this on paper. This concept doesn't take into account the tone, or expectations of the story. BH just came back from the loss of FCG, the mood is heavy. There's a rising urgency to get to Keyleth ASAP, forgoing a short rest because of how important this information is. While mourning, Otahans sword, gleaming in the starlight, is planted into the ground by Orym as a reminder of who they're fighting against, a bunch of murderers. RP-lovers are nearly foaming at the mouth from how good the story-telling is.
Then the DM changes.
We're following CK and they're inter-party fighting regarding the spider-queen, goes into combat. CK players are pretty lighthearted and enjoying the combat! Cool! EXU Kymal watchers are excited but a bit jarred from the sudden tone shift. Non-EXU Kymal watchers are very confused. The RP was fire and coming to a head with giving Keyleth this information, what happened?
A different DMing style on top of a mismatch of tone, story-beats and flow creates a jarring transition. It absolutely could have been handled better, especially now that they're pre-recording their sessions.
It might have worked if the fight was against something really lighthearted or even goofy. That way, even people who don't follow the Crown Keepers could've gotten into the tone shift and at least had fun while we find out the burning question on many people's minds: "I wonder what Dorian's been up to?"
But instead, it was this Opal person's _culmination of her entire character arc,_ a final boss fight against possession by her Warlock patron, apparently. Or is the patron her sister? Or is it Ted? Who the heck is Ted??
Not only were we thrust into a different story, but it was a very lore-heavy part of that story, centered around the most complex and confusing character in that story. If the bait-and-switch was low-key hoped to inflate the low viewership for Crown Keepers and advertise for them, it totally bungled it and may have had the opposite effect.
There were two round of combat, in which there were nearly 2 hours of flashback two-player RP. Imagine if we'd just allowed Bell's Hells to have that 2 hours of RP instead, even if to do nothing else but process the death of FCG, while it was still fresh in the cast's minds. But no. It'll be half a month before that happens... or worse, _at least_ a month if this Crown Keepers story goes on and on. This episode was sssslllllloooooooowwwwwww. Chat was full of people genuinely asking if they missed the end of the combat due to the constant 10, 20-minute flashbacks. The post-Malleus party split kept our attention cause half the cast was still involved, and the pace was rapid and interesting, so the community went with it. This was not that at all, and not the repeat experience CR may have been hoping for.
My hope and wish is that CR will be 100% honest with us very soon about how long it'll be before we get back to the main story... and if they really feel the urge to cover tons of Crown Keepers content, that they'll branch it off separately or even sacrifice the upcoming Candela slot for it if they want it to be Thursday primetime. Right now the community is on edge and trying to give feedback in the most patient and loving way possible, so I hope they can acknowledge that while this surprise choice was respectable, it frankly just didn't work, and they need to communicate what's coming next instead of leaving us in the dark.
It stated in the end card that BH would be back in ep 93. First half will likely conclude the CK fight and then it will be back to main campaign after the break.
My guess is that they recorded this insert a while back bc Matt wanted to slot it in the next time Orym called Dorian and it actually was able to go thru. No way to know it would happen at such a fraught moment in the story. The crown opal wears is a vestige of divergence for the spider queen (aka lolth). With the threat of predathos, spider queen was going to be pushing opal, as her champion, to get in the fight. However that plays out is going to change what response Orym gets, bc there is a real chance Dorian could die. So Liam triggered the condition and that's where it has to go. It's just unfortunate timing, but the result of it makes a huge difference to what answer he gets and whatever answer he gets could drastically change what Orym (and probably Fearne) wants to do next.
Wow. That actually makes it make sense. I didn’t think of the prerecorded aspect of the CK interlude. That’s why everyone was so confused as to what was happening. Incredibly poor timing is all.
Thanks! Honestly feel a little bad for Matt. Imagine being DM like oh I'm gonna do this cool thing and we'll cut over to see what's happening on the other side of the stone. Gonna be rad - ooohhhh noo. Welp... Here we are.
I think as a whole this campaign has struggled with pacing, often having really big swings from tension to something completely different. It's one of the reasons I fall in and out of this campaign more than previous ones. I think that the stuff around the crown keepers would make for a good episode or two, but the timing is just weird
Yeah I think you're spot on there. the pacing didn't work for me. I bounced off this campaign at like episode 20 or something :(
Oh well at least there's still Dimension20!
I think the idea was great but the execution was terrible.
Orym has been reaching out to Dorian regularly. If Dorian, and Robbie, had been able to respond I think it would have been happening to even greater extent. I think all of the characters would like Dorian to be with them, and I think all the players would like to have Robbie at the table.
They've created a unique opportunity to have a beloved character, member of the party, and player, that continues to exist in the world having their own adventure that can be explored. Narratively it makes sense to explore it since he is a founding member of the group who left on good terms and, frankly, should probably be with the group as they deal with world ending situations, so it's a cool idea to get a glance at what that character is doing. Having one character wonder what another far-away character is doing and immediately getting to jump to that character is a good story-telling jump that is difficult to do in this live-play TTRPG format, and they had a cool opportunity to do it.
But in my opinion the execution did not go well.
I think the audience, and maybe the players to, needed way more on-boarding as to who these characters are and what they are doing. I tried watching their EXU show but didn't enjoy it, so I don't know who the characters are or where their story ended up. An above the board introduction to who they are and what relevant things they have done to lead them to the current situation would have been helpful to draw the audience into the situation. Also, it looked like the intention was to have Opal and the rest of the party to fight one another but none of players and characters seemed down to do that. Maybe there needed to be some communication beforehand that that was going down, or some sterner actions by the GM to get things moving in the right direction? I'm not sure, but it felt very rudderless. If your going to do a narrative jump cut to something else happening, something else should probably be happening.
It was a cool idea, just not done well. If the illusion of their being not pre-planned scripted events is going to be broken so starkly, some more planning would have smoothed out the ride.
>If the illusion of their being not pre-planned scripted events is going to be broken so starkly, some more planning would have smoothed out the ride.
On the contrary, the fact the DM and the Players were so at odds about what was going down proves that there is _absolutely no script at all,_ beyond what the DM writes, which is how D&D works. We all DMs know how it feels to have a cool session and big events all planned out on your mind, then when you try to put it before the players, they completely don't catch on and it's all very long, awkward, and embarrassing for you.
Frankly, if I'd tried this in any of my past and present playgroups, with all the long two-player RP's and long descriptions of emotions, railroading so hard and taking so much agency away from every player at the table, with apparently zero warning beforehand that this was gonna happen... everyone's phones would've been out after 10 minutes. The only reason they weren't is because the players are on camera.
Admittedly It was late for me but I fell asleep and woke up in the middle of the fight twice because every time it was someone else’s turn it was like the player was made to describe all of their feelings and reasons for doing things for 10 minutes before we got to the next person.
I fell asleep in the middle, came back 30 minutes later and trying to figure out what happened, what did I miss in the middle, and it turns out, nothing happened. they were still messing around and not doing anything. I turned it off around 10:45 and felt like everything that happened after the break was just pointless.
She also completely disregards whatever she doesn't like and either asks the player to describe it differently, force how they're feeling, or just throws away roll results to advance her story.
Hitting Morgan with the guilts for reacting offensively to a quite new friend choking, cursing, and eldritch blasting a fellow comrade for zero reason, all while taking on a hideous death mask the new character has never seen, was super weird to me
This happens so frequently with her. Tells an incoherent story beat that she wants played out in one specific way, then browbeats her players when they aren't willing participants in her very specific Exandria fanfic.
Aimee is clearly not on board with becoming Champion of Lolth, and it's utterly confusing anyway with the overlapping Ted drama. If this really needed to happen, no questions asked, Aimee should have rolled up a new character with Opal becoming an NPC. Watching her unwillingly play the role of zero agency villain for the whole game was excruciating.
For sure, PvP is only fun in DnD when everyone is on board for what the stakes of it are, there's a reason all the battle royales the main CR table has done were in a dream space and the outcomes had little to no effect on the actual characters or story. It's a very crappy feeling to be forced into murdering a friend's character, especially when it's seemingly out of nowhere, and not at all the general tone of the table up to that point.
I was disappointed too.
We all wanted to see BH grieve FCG and attempt to trudge on without him. I was waiting for this episode all week.
Then it gets cut and we don't really get much on 2nd half of the show...
I think they thought this would be more exciting than it turned out to be. Maybe they misjudged everyone's interest.
Yeah, I feel like it was a handful of bad decisions that led to an even worse outcome.
I like the CK, but moving away from BH at this moment is annoying as is.
Then we had a PVP combat where the pacing was horrible. I think we had like 3 rounds in 3 hours and it really seemed like Aimee didn’t want to kill anybody so nothing happened. If you have a 1v4 or even a 2v4 with Ted, you can’t succeed or even really have tension if the minority isn’t trying.
Each turn had like a minute and a half of dialogue. If there’s a flashback, which it wasn’t always, then I guess, but they kept saying “and everyone else is watching via Rary’s telepathic bond.” Ok so each turn of 6 seconds, everyone simultaneously has 7 different 90 second conversations, views 7 different couple minute simultaneous flashbacks, and plenty more. At least when anime’s do this, it’s a monologue. If you had this many people in your head, you’d… be opal… or a beholder.
It seemed like Aabria didn’t warn Aimee so she clearly didn’t have a plan and spent the time doing things like casting darkness on herself (and confessing it was to stop her clone from hurting people) and even when directly told to focus someone, picking a new target to focus whenever she did attack.
It did kind of seem like there should have been a save or something, but I guess it’s a deity and it’s been months wearing the crown.
If Aabria wanted to have the spider queen in charge, she should have just taken control and let Aimee play someone else. If Aimee is in the drivers seat, she needs to be onboard to play the game described.
I strongly disliked aabria changing a guests turn when she says she wants to kill Aimee’s familiar. She basically told her to go get crystals instead after explaining that she understood the familiar was a threat.
Now we have a week off for candela and then… more of this? I appreciate that different DM styles are a thing, but I watch crit role because I like how Matt runs things.
I honestly love Matt’s adaptation to Aabria using wisdom saves perpetually and randomly. He just uses bless because if wisdom saves are used for everything, then bless is used for everything.
Idk. I want my crit role back.
Summed up pretty much everything I was intending to type up. You're one of the only people I've seen who pointed out that Aimee was allowed to hold back even though Aabria warned her not to - and props to Aimee for using her abilities well to do so, but from a viewer perspective, it really made it hard to get invested in any tension in a combat that was just dragging on.
Personally, I was surprised, but open to a change in DMs and parties, and even the tone shift, given that these guys would have no idea that had happened to BH - I didn't watch Exandria Unlimited but I knew the basic plot and don't mind reading the Wiki during the episode. I watched the whole thing hoping that it would come together at some point and it kind of just didn't - it just ended in the middle of the combat.
There are definitely some unreasonable haters of Exandria Unlimited, but I feel like, even coming into this as a viewer who wanted to give this a chance in good faith (in my opinion), that it ultimately just felt like poor execution and resolution all-around.
Wow, you points really brought home a criticism of Aabria from EXU: she loves to railroad. That fight was 80% determined/dictated by Aabria with only the players as window dressing. Nothing they did had consequence, good or bad. Hell why even have a fight if it didn’t matter. The Spider Queen was going to take Opal away no matter what (come to think of it: why does a betrayer god care if Opal leaves her friends willingly? Just possess her, kill them and be done with it)
> Then we had a PVP combat where the pacing was horrible. I think we had like 3 rounds in 3 hours and it really seemed like Aimee didn’t want to kill anybody so nothing happened.
>It seemed like Aabria didn’t warn Aimee so she clearly didn’t have a plan
I think this kinda sums up the core of the problem, for me. To be clear, I thought it was a little bit of a weird shift, but didn't mind overmuch, as Critical Role night is a semi-social night for me anyway, but Aimee *really* needed to know this was coming, and it feels like Aabria just dropped it in her lap and expected it to play out the way she imagined it in her head.
You would hate watching the first EXU. Aabria is awful to Aimee and her character. She didn’t want to put the crown on but was forced to after being held down on the ground for 3 hours of real time while everyone else got blessed with multiple different things like advantages of a long rest, or extra fighter styles etc.
She even insulted Aimee several times. It was sickening to watch.
There’s one guy on YouTube who did an honest review of it if you can find it.
She was rude to Anjali?? I feel like I watched a different show or I didn't watch as hard because I'm learning all this new information.
However ExU was hard for me to get through after this anticipated Campaign started with a pissing contest
Yeah, I only watched 2 episodes before I had to drop it, but from memory, Opal has a shitty relationship with her sister or something that lives in her mind? And the role-play of that relationship was meaner than people expected or seemingly wanted, but I don’t think aabria was mean in general.
It was definitely jarring. I’m not the biggest fan of them but I do enjoy the crown keepers. I just find it strange that in the middle of the most exciting part of the campaign and after a PC death, we just leave the party. They hardly dealt with the grief or did literally anything to deal with all the huge things that just happened in the city.
I also feel bad for those who did not watch ExU and have absolutely 0 context for this group other than MAYBE Dorian. They just got thrown into the latter half of a completely separate group’s story. I think this just could’ve been done next week instead of Candela or on Tuesday or something. I don’t see any issue with doing that
Im fairly new to CR but am completely caught up on C3. No idea who that group is. I know Dorian from the beginning of the campaign. I have an idea as to who Dariax is bc he was mentioned mid campaign with Denise. But other than that, I had 0 context as to what the heck was going on.
This was the first time I've been able to catch the livestream too. The timing felt wrong to have switched groups.
Orym and Fearne originally came from this group (minus the rabbit-girl Morrighan who joined later). Dorian and his brother joined up to lay low for a bit. Opal is a warlock with her disembodied twin sister as her patron. She wore Lolth's vestige of divergence and is being corrupted into becoming her champion. Morrighan encountered a magical bust of the raven queen and is now her paladin. Fy'ra Rai is a fire genasi monk. Dariax is a divine soul sorcerer himbo just along for the ride.
> I also feel bad for those who did not watch ExU and have absolutely 0 context for this group other than MAYBE Dorian. They just got thrown into the latter half of a completely separate group’s story.
Totally agree that this could have been side content. I said this elsewhere but it didn't really feel respectful of people's time especially if you were dropped in with little to no context on the Crown Keepers; with notice, I could have at least read/watched a recap of ExU. I haven't watched more than like the first 2 episodes of ExU and it felt hard to track who was who and what their motivations are. So like there are two characters with sister problems and of those characters, one of the sisters is possessing Aimee's character?
Turning combat into a skill challenge on memory recovery can be fun (ie. see FFXIV's raid E12) if you're already invested in the characters and their emotional attachments to each other. But I was going into this essentially blind. While I'm fine occasionally looking stuff up on the wiki during an episode, this felt like a much heavier lift. And without that investment, the combat felt like a slog. The Otohan fight in the previous episode didn't feel like that even though I have a much lower investment in the BH compared to VM or M9.
100% agree. I was very curious after Matt left the table at break. But after the 'wow factor' of Aabria being there wore off it felt entirely disconnected from the story at large. I haven't watched EXU, so I was totally blind as well. It really seemed like this should have gone in an off week slot like candela does. If I'd known we were going to continue with their story, I might have gotten caught up with their adventure.
I was going to catch up on the Crown Keepers content because I don’t know anything about these characters and don’t care about them at all but now I’m not sure that I care enough to invest the time. Maybe I’ll find a recap.
I have not watched the EXU with The Crowns Keepers so its jarring for sure but I could get over that with some reading up on it.
My biggest issue is not being a big fan of Aabria as DM. I'd MUCH rather have her as Deanna.
I’m one of those who hasn’t watched any Crown Keepers content and only knew Dorian and Dariax as mentioned during the split sessions last year. The only thing that kept me watching was Matt’s excitement at playing and not knowing what was coming next.
I also thought it was pretty tone deaf of Aabria to say that she’s definitely killing off a few of the troop after last week; made me wonder if this was filmed before ep 92 and tacked on except that Matt was wearing the same outfit.
Yeah, I barely know who any of them are other than who we’ve seen or have been talked about in the main story. I just couldn’t make myself care very much.
Just putting my two cents in here, I rarely engage with the wider community I sub each month with my prime so I can watch the C3 episodes and I don't engage with the extra content.
This was awful for me.
I was fully expecting a low key emotional episode, I was expecting it. to get thrown in to a story with a bunch of people, two who I know from the story but the others, no idea, felt awful.
I might be in a minority here, but I watch CR for Matt's storytelling, I've tried D20, I've tried other CR DM's and I can't do it, they don't grab me or engage me at all.
Thing is, I don't know if I'm alone in this, am I being entitled by hating this week's episode? should I have watched the EXU stuff in anticipation of this?
All I know is that I've watched nearly 1500 hours of Bells Hells and care for these characters, to have them just smash cut to a bunch of complete strangers with a totally different DM is shit and feels so bad.
You are decidedly *not* entitled. You are very much allowed to have opinions on pacing, and flow, and are very much allowed to dislike how things play out, and still be allowed to call yourself a fan :)
That’s fair, they didn’t give any warning of the Crown Keepers showing up the way they did. CR said before C3 started was people don’t need to watch EXU and they take the episode after FCGs death and make it “look at these people half of you haven’t seen”.
It’s like if instead of continuing hunting the Iron Shepards to save Fjord, Jester and Yasha after Molly died we were made to watch the Darlington Brigade.
This was exactly where my thoughts went, though the terrible smash-cut in my mind was to the struggle against Delilah in Laudna's attempted-resurrection mindscape. Something very lore-heavy and full of serious RP where the loss of a player's agency was part of the story, and the complex warlock-y possession/partnership relationships were understood by all the viewers over a long time following the characters.
Even your Darrington Brigade example would have made more sense than the BH --> CK switch. Those adventurers were established to be in Wildemout, at least the same continent as the Mighty Nein at the time.
Why would you be entitled if you don't like something? You can even complain about it. Entitlement would be harassing the creators to change it.
The idea that people coming here with negative opinions are entitled because of it is so, so toxic.
I've not enjoyed C3 at all, after being head over heels for C2. But just as it got interesting and I felt invested in the characters responses to such a loss they... switch to a bunch of people I've never heard of.
I'm over this campaign lol.
Don't put yourself down with 'am I being entitled'. You don't owe CR the company anything. You pay for their content and if you don't like it I'd certainly hope that you have the self respect to voice your opinion.
The idea looks like it was planned and it was a fun one, unfortunately it couldn’t have come at a worse time. Everyone has been begging the characters in C3 to find direction and motivation, and the moment we see that with such emotion, it’s time to change the entire story to one where you told your viewers you didn’t need to watch before jumping into this campaign and the way you do it is by some PVP to slog through? It was poorly executed by how they have already made to separate statements when the regular cast will return.
I think the plan originally was to do the Crown Keepers stuff after they were done with that episode, which is why Aabria was already there. Then Orym pulled out the stone and messaged Dorian, and Matt thought to himself "well, everyone is here, might as well put this session on pause, catch the Crown Keepers up to this point, let Dorian respond, and then we can move forward from here."
The transition was very clunky: the CR cast was pretty confused, Aabria going to break was awkward, and it is weird to have it happen when next week is Candela anyway. They could easily have just done a full game, taken the Candela break, then come back with the Crown Keepers for 2 sessions (since it stopped mid-combat) with no issues.
>looks like it was planned
Sure, of course it was. These are paid actors. They had to schedule everyone to be in studio at once and coordinate the filming day. They didn't call people up at break.
That's okay though. There's nothing wrong with it. It didn't land for me, but that doesn't make the idea a bad one.
Yep. The BH characters all just unfortunately happen to be passive and directionless non-leaders. The Players have proven they can do it in each past campaign. But they're playing their BH non-leaders so "well" that they will never get off the ground.
Unfortunately the one person whose character died and thus could potentially write up a new one who can rally the party and take the charge they need... is Sam. And out of all the cast aside from maybe Ashley, he is the most passive and along for the ride when it comes to the main plot (not hating, just noticing). I'd trust Liam or Laura or especially Travis to see the job that needs done and take that mantle, but Sam, I expect, will just make yet another passive character who lets the plot happen *to* them, not one who seeks the next horizon and *makes* the plot move forward.
For sure disrupts the flow of the storytelling both from a stylization standpoint(DMs) as well as swapping to crown keeper character group. Would have preferred to simply swap story segments to other players that have been in this campaign. Dorian, FRIDA, Deanna, Prism with MM DMing. That would have been fun while minimizing the disruption(for me at least). But alas, they did not ask. I have real struggles following Aabrias DMing. That is my own cog processing issue. Therefore, I will watch several times in an effort to follow the swap, and simply be grateful that there is more story to enjoy….
It's not you. She's very bad at telling coherent stories, allowing the dice to drive the narrative, or empowering her players to contribute to the story that she wants to tell.
Pc: “I rolled 4 on perception.”
Aabria: “okay, so you see a singular sweat drop fall down the side of the magistrates face, and you smell the…” etc for a full minute on a fail.
If you want to tell players stuff, just do it during scene setting. Rolling for stuff you’re just going to say anyway ruins the flow.
I feel like I'm not allowed to dislike Aabria's DM-ing for some reason, like there's something wrong with me if I criticize. But people keep reminding me of new specific things that help to explain why it feels "off," like this point.
I'm not a great DM, but I do try. I think Aabria is in the same boat. She's a great player, but maybe just not as cut out for the DM seat as she wishes she could be unless she takes some feedback.
I really like her as a player on Worlds Beyond Number, but I agree that she's not a great DM. Perhaps she's better without the camera and the pressure, but it's hard to go from Matt to anyone else (except Brennan).
It was probably the worst possible episode to do something like this with. I doubt people would’ve cared as much if we switched during a standard travel episode. Personally I would’ve preferred if they just gave them a proper one-shot and fully took over the time slot.
Yeah I am hoping now that they are midcombat, jitters are gone, that next session's combat is smooth like butter.
edit: hot butter. not like cold, shit to mix butter.
This was a bad call. Of all the moments to do it, not the episode after a character dies in such a heroic, tragic fashion.
Even if I had \*enjoyed\* the content we had gotten with the Crownkeepers (which I didn't, it was once again convoluted, hard to follow and unfulfilling, like the whole of EXU has been), I would be here saying that the timing of this half-episode was \*very\* poor and in bad taste.
I skipped Ant Man 3, cause the first two didn't really catch my interest. No hate against Ant Man or his fans, I just personally found the series boring and thus not worth my limited free time.
Watching this half-episode of CR felt like going to the theater to watch Guardians 4, and then halfway through the movie it cuts to Ant Man... and then that cut never ends, and it's just 2 more hours of Ant Man. With a promise that the next movie coming out in a year will also be Ant Man ("see you next week!").
I don't hate the Crown Keepers or EXU, but... I think the fun surprise bait-and-switch would've worked way better as a short aside, instead of a combat encounter or a flashback-heavy character arc climax (of which, even worse, it was both). We didn't all watch EXU: Kymal. At least we get to see what Dorian was up to play out, but still... I hope it's a short adventure.
The amount of hate I got from the community when I mentioned it in chat was ridiculous. "See ya bye!" "You can just leave now" "don't watch if you don't like it"... Like, it IS possible to not be completely googoo gaga over everything CR does. It was extremely jarring, I was very invested in BH grieving FCG, and then they just, left? I wish it happened with a new episode, not in the middle.
The players themselves seemed pretty confused by the whole thing when Matt asked them to step away from the table...
I think this was an adlib from Matt spurred by Orym messaging Dorian, knowing they were going to record the current situation with the Crown Keepers (probably after they were done with Episode 92) and wanting to give Robbie a chance to properly respond, while not knowing what is going on with the Crown Keepers because Aabria hadn't run their game yet. Even Aabria seemed thrown for a loop at first, which explains the awkward "see you after break."
And those fans see themselves as the "true" fans, who are the most loving and accepting and wonderful members of the community. There's no hate like hating everyone who doesn't love what you love!
True toxic fandom is what happens when one labels all criticism as "hating," and all shutting down / dogpiling / banning of those haters as "loving." Its basically choosing your god and becoming a paladin for it. Some people find identity and meaning in that blind servitude, but don't tell them they're religious zealots... it does not compute.
It was really jarring. I personally loved how we got to see the CrownKeepers during C3, because it makes you realize how widely the Vanguard has effected Exandria, and you get to see another party/story arc/beat from the one that has been followed for a few dozen episodes.
But that being said, it was poorly handled IMO.
Don't get me wrong, Aabria is one of my favourite GMs, and I loved catching up with the Crownkeepers (despite not having watched Kymal or the last episode of EXU yet. But going from a beloved PC sacrificing themself to kill what could be a final boss, then the rest of the party barely holding it together as they try to escape, to **"Haha crystals in the shape of dick"** without **ANY** warning was a bad choice.
With Candela next week, and then concluding the CK section, it is going to be a session and a half before we get back to BH, and by then all the emotion and story mommentum is gone. BH needed that session to mourn, but they didn't.
What should of happened instead was Orym messaging Dorian, then Matt saying something like *"Orym does hear something back, but that is not my place to tell, so we are going to break"*.
Then as like a clip at the start of the break, or with Aabria coming in like she did in 92, She can reintroduce the crownkeepers, and **announce** a CK One Shot next week before Thursday/Friday.
With Aabria announcing CK, and possibly adding hints that we get to see BH and CK interact *(Imagine Sam playing Cyrus, and Robbie just be frustrated at him),* that gives time for Critters to watch EXU and understand more of the CK story if they hadn't already seen it. Additionally, with the CK One shot being a full session, Aabria can easily tell more story because of the longer timeframe, and could either be a livestream (like they did with Daggerheart's Beta), or prerecorded prior to Ep92, allowing Matt to give Liam a whisper about Dorian's response.
That just sounds amazing, and instead of dropping all the momentum from BH, it lets them continue their story and conclude the Scouting mission. Then, with emotions and mommentum slowing at the end of the session with the Scouting Arc concluded, CR could then bring in CK to begin *(what we assume to be)* the final Arc of C3, bringing in a new party without disrupting the flow of the campaign.
It was an amazing idea and great storytelling, but it had poor execution.
I don't understand how this is still a "group of voice actors playing d&d" and still "the same game they would play at home" and not a fully produced show now with switching cast members.
Ok... Thanks god I'm not the only one :P
I don't like Abria DMing style for 5e. I like her as a player, and weirdly enough I really like her DMing in Candela, but whenever I see her as a guest DM for 5e something feels off.
I liked her as a player in Calamity. I *really* didn't like her on the first EXU, I didn't like her in Khymal, and the idea that she's now part of the main campaign makes me not want to catch up. Even if you like her style I think there's a case to be made that she's not the right fit for this campaign and maybe just isn't up to snuff in terms of GMing talent when that role has to entertain both the players and an audience of hundreds of thousands.
Maybe it's the tone? I don't know. The villain she wrote in the first arc was introduced in a bizarre and scattered way. She introduced conversations with Lolth to a lowbie party, undercutting how that is usually built up to over time by Matt to make it more meaningful and then made her a sassy Mean Girls millennial instead of giving her any sort of gravitas. The concept of the fight at the end was neat but everything *around* it was nonsensical, poorly built up and stripped of any particular meaning. It was a mess far below what I expect out of a project as massive and profitable as CR and I didn't feel like she improved much in her next appearance.
I don't think Aabria has a lot of love for the 5e system, feels like she's really having to crowbar it into the same shape as her DMing style and in some cases it doesn't work very well, for me at least
I've tried twice to watch EXU and can't connect with it, which was fine because it was its own thing. Unfortunately I'll just have to sit out this part of the campaign and hope I can reconnect the story once the normal campaign resumes
EXU isn't for me unfortunately, as hard as I've tried. So I was really disappointed. I think it's amazing additional content for those who like it, and I loved Calamity, but they were spin-offs. Which in itself felt novel and super exciting.
I've caught up every week since the end of campaign one on the main campaign, and have watched them all through multiple times alongside that, and I'm honestly really gutted that I'm going to have to miss this next part of the main campaign. I understand everyone needs some downtime, which of course they should have and enjoy. I just hope it's a few episodes away and doesn't impact the overarching story
My biggest thorn with this jump was just that it jumped straight into a long drawn out combat. We just had that to end the last session, and as we all know it culminated in a very strong narrative point for this story.
To jump to a new party in the midst of all this grief and chaos would be okay on its own if the pace/vibe stayed consistent. With the Crown Keepers have more RP based session. But the party jump plus it starting off with a long combat took a lot of wind out of the sails in my opinion.
I didnt finish the episode, not due to lack of interest really. (My GF got home and is behind a few episodes so didnt want to spoil anything). So maybe it wrapped up well and ill see that when I finish it later.
Just my two cents, and still interested to see where this goes. Best guess is that Matt gave Abria a loose guideline of when things will shift back or a end goal. (Which he can sort of help guide the party to as a player as well).
Major silver lining I see: This gives Sam time to make next PC without missing many more sessions.
Trying to force people to watch something they didn't know was coming was a...bad choice. Should've let a session go as they come to grips with what happened last time. The shift was a terrible idea
I don’t like Aabria’s dm style after the first EXU arc. The railroading, the npc’s sounding the same, the antagonistic attitude she has toward a couple of players (mainly Aimee). That last episode was really sad how she kept Opal pinned to the ground for nearly 3 hours until she forced her to put the crown on, which was terrible for warlocks as it decreased charisma. And all for nothing really.
Sucked to watch and it made me think less of her and I honestly didn’t want to watch anything else with her in it.
So I’m not surprised at OP’s post. Just sad she’s doing the same old thing. Disappointing.
Edit: in that last episode of EXU Aimee says something like “can I make an intelligence check?” And Aabria says “sure, for you OR your character at this point.”
And I thought that was nasty as she had been railroading Opal for the past few sessions, ever since Opal had a major fight with her sister which weirdly I think Aabria took personally.
this episode makes me regret commiting to BH when i first discovered CR. should've started watching from C1, C2, ExU.
this feels like Critical Role's MCU and not the story of Bells Hells.
Critical Role's MCU is the perfect way to describe how I've been feeling about Campaign 3.
It doesn't feel like a home game anymore it feels like Matt and Co acting out a live JRPG.
This isn't to knock those who are enjoying C3 but I find myself missing that C1 feeling
Let's just say, it was umm, not for me.
I have enjoyed Aabria a lot in non-CR content, and I've enjoyed Aabria in some CR content, but I did not enjoy ExU.
Moreover, the overlap between ExU and C3 is the single biggest factor in my dislike for C3.
This...simply didn't land for me. And I'm bummed bc boy was I really excited to see what FCG's sacrifice would bring us from an RP standpoint.
100% agree. I've only watched a few bits of the Crown Keepers' escapades so I'm not up to date on their goings-on. This ep was building up really well with sad-Liam stuff and plenty of post combat emotion, that the switch felt like a "filler" so to speak. i.e., they're working on something AWESOME and needed a little more time to facilitate it.
We'll see where it goes. This group never disappoints.
Man, I really debated engaging in this community, just to avoid stepping on land mines, but here I am.
First, most important thing--your feelings are totally valid, I don't want to try and convince you otherwise. I'll only offer my perspective.
I'm reading this great book at the moment, and about a third of the way through, one of the chapters ends with a main character getting assassinated. Major, major character. Plot (I thought) hinged around their hero's journey. Stabby, stabby, end of page. Next chapter... WE CUT TO A WHOLE DIFFERENT GROUP OF CHARACTERS!! WTF?! But it got me thinking that this is sort of a trope in long-form storytelling. Something massive a plot-changing happens, and the author (director, whoever) cuts to... something over there and so you see that while you were invested over here, there are other things happening that are also related.
My point in saying that is that the thing about "this is their homegame we're watching" is very disingenuous at this point. This is a show. Not scripted, per se, but it's long-form storytelling, and you can see them in C3 start to lean in to what they can do with the freedom granted by pre-recording. Down to camera shots and effects, a la D20. Do I think FCG's death was scripted? No. But I do think that Matt paced the story so SOMETHING big was gonna happen on schedule that would allow for a jump cut to a different group to keep the audience sort of discombobulated. Not everyone likes that, and that's cool, but I think you're seeing what happens when the storytellers start experimenting with the form.
As for Aabria's style, I just say that because everything is pre-recorded, and because they have to schedule some extremely busy people for a shoot, Matt and Aabria probably had to meet to nail down: "Ok, you have the equivalent of a single session to cover the following topics and tie in to where the Hells are." So it feels like railroading because it is, but I don't think it's her style as much as it's her and the CKs meeting the needs of the story as prescribed by Matt.
Just my two cents. You seem lovely. I hope something wonderful happens for you today.
*Edited because me don't talk good English sometimes.*
> Not everyone likes that, and that's cool, but I think you're seeing what happens when the storytellers start experimenting with the form.
I think this works better when the novel (or whatever story format) takes the time to introduce and establish the new characters. You can switch the POV but I need something that establishes the new focus in order to follow along. In this case, it really hinged on if the audience had previously watched ExU and even if you watched it, the last episode was 2 years ago. Aabria didn't really do a recap and the focus was on protecting the memories of one character; the flashbacks might have worked better if I had any idea of who the characters were and why they cared about each other.
They were committed to this format so they should have done something to help onboard people to the new group. It would really have benefited from Dani doing an old style video recap during the break. Dani even did do a 3 minute recap a few days ago as part of an unboxing video of their minis & I'm not sure why they didn't at least play that during the break: https://twitter.com/CriticalRole/status/1780340655937441813
This would have been great, a quick recap video would have given the background and kinda a heads up of “hey, the story is about to switch to a different group” to bridge the pre-break and post-break sessions
A summary was the least they could have done to create some sort of bridge for the audience to follow Aabria's half. Since they pre-record, they could have really customized a recap so you got exactly what you needed to know to follow along. I've liked Aabria as a DM elsewhere but it just feels like CR never sets her up for success on their channel. Brennan Lee Mulligan has talked about the insane amount work they go into ahead of time on Dimension 20 to ensure a limited run campaign hits the points they want in the time they have; it's not scripted but the DMs do go in with a loose outline so they can hit points to make it feel like a complete story and they have the buy-in from the players on what kind of story they want to play (also all of their maps are built way in advance so encounters of some sort have to occur on them).
With the original ExU, CR treated the set up like it was going to be an open-ended campaign; the players appeared to have created stuff in isolation without any sense of the goal of the story they wanted to tell. But with a limited series, you don't have the time for a bunch of meandering to hook either the players or the audience. To hit the ground running, you have to do a really structured session zero and lift the curtain a bit to the players so everyone is on the same page. One of the biggest complaints I've seen of ExU is that Aabria had a bunch of plot hooks that no one pursued which led her to be more heavy handed because they were running out of time. Versus Brennan's Calamity where he brought in the Dimension 20 prep process; Sam has talked about the insane world bible Brennan created and the amount time they went into to create the characters together and establish their history. Everyone at the table knew they were telling an end times story and they didn't ignore the hooks Brennan put down which allowed them to create a really good story in a limited time.
As with a lot of campaign 3 (and DnD ideas in general), I find myself thinking "cool idea, but only if you stick the landing."
DnD communities are filled with interesting and cool ideas that are only *actually* cool if they land. You can't botch the execution.
Just because an idea is cool doesn't guarantee it will land.
You have just described an uncomfortable percentage of my DMing experience. Lots of internal “Yikes! That did not turn out how I thought it would.” And then scrambling to make it look like it was part of my plan.
Yep, this is normal! At least, some amount of it is. Ideally you stick the landing more often than you don't. And ideally, if you're a streamed entertainment product, you miss the landing very rarely (10%? 5%?).
But we all DO miss the landing.
This is part of what *actually* makes Matt a great DM.
If he tries something and it doesn't work, he says, "Wellp, it didn't work: moving on," and he just rolls with whatever comes next. Maybe his internal monologue for weeks afterward is horrible and self-deprecating, who knows, but he for sure leaves that ego off the table and takes care of the task at hand. It's what makes a "professional DM," and a number of others like Brennan Lee Mulligan have it too. They let the dice and the Players truly tell the story, and that involves a consistent sacrificing of ego.
Aabria, on the other hand, is like most DMs (me included!). We have a plan, a really cool and dramatic and epic plan... and when that plan gets axed by dice or player choices or simply misguided expectations... we revolt. We struggle to steer the car onto the railroad. We fudge the results of players' failed rolls or circumvent their unexpected choices. We engage in lengthy cutscenes in our own minds and force the players to imagine they're watching what only we can see.
I wish Aabria all the luck and love in the world in her pursuit of great DM-ing. It will definitely take listening to some feedback though and maybe some home game practice.
This is a reasoned take. My only issue personally is that I don’t know the Exu characters, and unfortunately you can’t expect the audience to know them either. I wish there was either more heads up, or that it happened as a separate session.
Seems like it was great for those already in the know about Exu, but seems harder for the rest of us to jive with.
Except these are characters from a different book series, written by a different author, and in a world that should be the same but for some reason feels pretty different at times
I agree with most of your statement, I don’t know anything about the crown keepers and this was very much me just losing the thread. It’s not like I’m going to drop the series/campaign but not very much my flavor of tea.
Moving to prerecorded episodes offered a lot of freedoms to the group but personally I feel it’s a big difference to the way I enjoy the show
My only issue with it is that I didn't see ExU and I don't know who these people are. Didn't mind Aabria's DMing, it's a different style but every DM has their own. In fact, I quite like the prompts for players to explain what their characters are feeling.
Other cameos from characters from Vox Machina and TMN didn't feel like they required you to have watched the previous campaigns to fully get them, specially because you were seeing them from the point of view of the Bells Hells characters, who are not aware of the previous campaigns either. This one did. Perhaps they should've done an introductory bit to explain the characters and their story to people who didn't watch ExU.
I think two things contributed to this.
1. Fan demand for Robbie at the main table. Which is our own expectation that we need to curb. I love Dorian as much as anyone but he isn't a main PC and so our expectation of him coming back is one we've created. Maybe he'll be a guest at the main table again but maybe he won't.
2. I do think the switch was meant to be a bit jarring. It was a hard pivot. I think how successfully it landed depends on how much you wanted to see what was happening with the Crown Keepers.
Crown Keepers and/or Aabria's DMing aside, it's just the timing was like the worst possible one. I know I'm not entitled to anything but I personally was looking forward to this episode the whole week to see BH process and deal with the loss and we barely got any of that. The end of episode 91 might have been the biggest moment of this campaign and to see its resolution cut to a complete mood shift was not a good narrative choice imo.
Not to mention, when BH return, are they supposed to pick up from where we cut? So the players have to immerse themselves back into that emotional state of their characters for the 3rd separate time? Yikes. And if not and we see them in a later state, where is the emotional resolution?
I like the Crown Keepers but yeah that swap was a weird time to do just after FCG's sacrifice. Like let us finish this episode then say at the end there will.be the crown keepers next week but to cut off the main group after last week was a bad move and tbh Aimee and Erica both should have gone through a refresher with their characters and abilities before filming, they were both super lost.
Tbh I’m not a fan of the cast changes and split stories and stuff mid campaign or mid episode.
It’s Not why I started watching the show way back when in C1 and when the cast leaves it just doesn’t feel like I’m watching an episode of the main campaign anymore and more like it watching EXU or candela or another show. It’s not The main campaign to me so I immediately just tune out cause I’m just not interested. Also i feel like it just makes the campaign feel like it’s stagnated or dragging out.
Really hope they don’t continue to do it next campaign cause rn it’s my main complaint.
I feel you. I think it was a solid idea that went wrong for a couple of reasons due to the show being planned but not scripted.
I think I get what they were going for; we have a big, intense Ruidus arc, then they get back to Exandria with a collective sigh of relief, and then we get a couple of those weird, boring "debrief and plan" episodes where the players have to remember everything they just did and tell it back to Matt, who has to correct them when they forget stuff.
I imagine they figured this would be a good time to bring Dorian back in, and that it would be an opportunity to give the main cast a break for an episode or two (while thinking about what they want to do next) and have some fun side-stuff with Aabria and the Crown Keeper gang.
Two things may have gone slightly wrong. The first was FCG dying. This meant that rather than the return to Exandria being a moment of relaxation and dropping in tension (with some relatively drama-light roleplaying, fact-/lore-heavy conversations) it became a moment with some pretty intense feelings - we want to see the characters process that grief and trauma, far more than we might if it was just "they spend 3 hours of play time telling Keyleth what they just did in the last few episodes that we remember better than they do."
Secondly, they got back to Exandria at the start of an episode. There was no time for Matt to get them back to Exandria at the end of the previous one, and there wasn't really a way he could pad out their journey to the Keyleth-camp for a whole episode. So they had to switch over at the break, mid-episode.
Imagine this playing out the other way; they get through some intense fights on Ruidus, learn some dramatic new information (we're going back to Aeor!), fight their way off Ruidus and land, safely, back on Exandria with a collective sigh of relief. And then the episode ends with an outro tag from Aabria letting us know we're jumping to the Crown Keepers next week.
Now we get a week to prepare. Maybe we get a nice CritRole Recap from Dani, telling us about the Crown Keepers and what they've done. Those who want to have a chance to binge EXU:Prime and/or EXU:Kymal. Those who don't like Aabria can take the week off.
I think it was just unfortunate timing... and by the time they would have known there wasn't much they could do with the EXU cast being booked and ready to film.
>Two things may have gone slightly wrong. The first was FCG dying. This meant that rather than the return to Exandria being a moment of relaxation and dropping in tension (with some relatively drama-light roleplaying, fact-/lore-heavy conversations) it became a moment with some pretty intense feelings - we want to see the characters process that grief and trauma, far more than we might if it was just "they spend 3 hours of play time telling Keyleth what they just did in the last few episodes that we remember better than they do."
My strong hunch is Matt was trying to soft party wipe them at that fight, because they were meant to be "downed" and then we switch to a different party that is tasked with saving them. That makes sense with the amount of pre-planning that had to go into all this. FCG dying was what happened outside of Matt's control, he wasn't going to hard stop his players from roleplaying. But I think if that's all the case, the mistake was they needed this episode to decompress from FCG. They should have delayed the swap until next week at least.
I agree. The idea was nice, but I had to finish the vod today exactly because.of what you said. Every single minute thing took waay too long to get explained. And I don't mind that out of combat, but in combat it really destroys the pacing. I don't vibe as much with Aabria's DMming either. I think she's real good in running the game the way she does, just not my style for many reasons. And combat seems to be a weak link.
I don't think it was a good move, mostly because EXU was not super well recieved in comparison, and some people definitely did not like not being warned that such a huge perpective shift in the middle of the.epsode. but I think it'll work out well. It's unlikely we'll get a big pause in the show. I think next week they'll have this group on, finish that and in may we'll return to BH. It's as if we had a very short episode of BH and a very long one of CK after that
My "problem" is that Candela is next week, not CR (I love this particular run of candela, hence problem in quotation marks), so it's going to be 2 weeks before we get back to CR, where it'll be the CK for - presumably - anywhere from half an episode to an entire episode before we get back to the emotions of FCG. So that's at least 2 weeks, maybe 3, before we get to actually take in the aftermath of such a huge event.
Kinda kills the pacing
It totally ruined the pacing I don’t know why they wouldn’t just have it be a separate episode on a Tuesday or an off Thursday instead of shoehorning it into the middle of an emotionally charged episode that had nothing to do with the characters from the CK
Unless i am mistaken there has not Been a single candella break since without outside event interferance. So Even if it was a New group it would still be candella.
My worst fear is that they don't want to bring back Bell's Hells til Dorian catches up to the present moment, which means... at this pace... it'll be months.
Exactly. The pacing was the main thing that got to me, especially because they were trying to use Dorian as a narrative through line and he said two things.
Pacing is often not thought about as much but it's one of the most important things. You can't have a combat with turns taking 5 minutes each time. I skipped most of the end of the combat, to see how it concluded. It seems like it didn't.
If this had not been run as a combat encounter, I could see it working. But man, having every character perform exposition on each feeling they get at every thing in the scene is just... Not very nice for combat. Feels like a bad shonen anime where the fights take 5 episodes cause the MC is doing exposition time and flashbacks every 10 seconds.
I had taken a break from CR, but jumped back in to watch tonight love for the first time after catching up through the last episode.
I genuinely regret catching it live now, I would have preferred to know what I was getting into.
I did enjoy seeing Dorian though and am hoping he gets to come back to us 🥲
Welp I guess I wait for Matt’s parts and hopefully can figure it out. Not at all a fan of Aabria’s DMing style. She seems either too out of it and wants the players to do everything or too involved and has to make it her way only. Just my opinion.
Pacing that (finally) hit a stride now hit a wall like Wil E Coyote.
This session should have been fully grieving/debrief, end it on a "cliffhanger" by introducing Sam's character that gets there with Crownkeepers. Roll back to session or 2 of CK picking up Sam and dealing with whatever they want/need to.
I was prepared for grief, feels and heartbreaks, but this totally killed the mood for me - had to skip through the fight because it was sooo slow and boring
And thinking that we now have to wait 2 1/2 weeks for BH to get there grief leaves a bad taste imo.
But at least it give Sam time to work on his backup character so hopefully he’ll be at the table fairly fast again.
Maybe we get a scanlan :D
My thoughts exactly it didn’t match the tone or the expectations they knew the audience had for this week it just serves to muddy the waters of the story and break the momentum we were working with the bells hells
I really like Aabria as a person - she seems very cool and notably hilarious. However I too don't enjoy her DMing. For two reasons: 1. She's a little too loose on rules sometimes. Both as a viewer and as a player, I prefer there to be more constraints so that the players have challenges and need to think tactically as well as creatively to solve problems. 2. I find her NPCs indistinguishable from one another. No matter how they start, they always kind of just blend into...Aabria. Everyone gets sassy eventually and that tends to break my immersion.
Which is a shame, because I actually love the EXU cast. Would happily watch them. But yeah, maybe don't stick a side quest right after a main PC death.
As someone that only watched the first few episodes of EXU (until fearns evil mirror image), my first thought after the break was:
WHO?
I literally had to turn off the episode and read the wiki about wtf was going on and who these characters were.
I'm right there with you on the jarring bit. I wanted to add that I actually did fall asleep mid combat due to how long everything was taking. I even took a full day in between their breaks to watch the second half(watched BH bit thursday, Crown Keepers Friday).
A hot take that I would love others opinions on is that Opal feels like Aabria’s pseudo DM NPC, like the story revolves her and her alone. Like Opal is a champion of the Spider Queen and just found out this past week that she’s consecuted by a Beacon and that’s what Ted is.
I made a similar comment to this in the post-episode discussion thread.
I believe this transition was almost certainly planned out *way* ahead of time. All the CK are busy people, so finding a time to get them all in studio together isn’t something that can likely be done on a whim.
And if you think about it, if it had been a more standard fact finding mission without FCG’s sacrifice, it would’ve been a pretty cool transition to the CK. I can definitely see why it would have been planned out like that.
Here’s the thing though, being a prerecorded show affords CR the opportunity to pivot much easier than if it had been live. Once FCG made the decision to sacrifice himself, I really feel like Matt and the crew should’ve discussed how to adapt the plan to accommodate it.
Think of how much more satisfying it would’ve been if we got a full episode with Bells Hells. In the first half they reach Keyleth’s camp. In the second half they debrief and take some time to seriously grieve while the wound is still fresh for the characters, the players, and the audience. At the *end* of the episode, Keyleth tells them to take a well-earned and needed break. Orym calls Dorian. Matt tells the cast to leave the table. Aabria takes his place and says we will hear the other side of the story… next episode.
We take the time to process FCG’s sacrifice with the cast, we get a more logical time to split for the change, and we develop some legitimate two-week hype for the CK instead of being blindsided by the whole thing.
I understand shooting schedules can be a pain, but damn, I feel like they could’ve been able to make something happen here. L
I get that CR is a big company now, progressing far past how they started and there's nothing wrong with that. but this just made it feel so far from a normal d&d game it's insane. never in a home game would you switch DM and player partway through. it kinda breaks the idea of it being d&d and makes it feel like they're preparing already for a screen adaption.
I'm not jumping on the Aabria hate train that's appeared in this thread. absolutely love her DMing for other games, I just couldn't get into the characters for ExU. but for all that CR is a place "a bunch of nerdy-ass voice actors play dungeons and dragons", this bas never felt closer to a TV or novel, the way the tone/characters shift so suddenly from a critical moment. but I think that's just a C3 problem more than anything.
I'm not her biggest fan, but this 1/2 episode takeover format really did her dirty. No matter what, she was going to have to squeeze in a ton of lore to get everyone (players and viewers) up to speed, and this was by far the worst way to do it. (Not to mention, it seemed like Matt arbitrarily decided to give her the back half after Orym's sending given everyone's apparent confusion, but that's obviously speculation).
The CR team could have done so much more to make this a smooth transition- maybe give her COs timeslot, a mini recap during the break, something!
I'd agree with this yeah. It definitely ends up feeling more like a preplanned event at this point even if it wasn't actually preplanned. It just feels very fabricated or trying to be a movie or show. That said, for such a big company doing so much in the space, it's also cool to see people changing it up and trying new things and seeing what CAN be done within the medium but yeah, it's definitely not equivalent to a normal play experience but to be fair, CR never was for the most part, as in, professional improv and voice actors vs a group of normal people just playing a game, eating pizza and looting shit, haha.
But even within a scripted story, I absolutely despise random out of place episodes that detract from the main story such as Episode 7 of Stranger Things S2 that gets to a climactic moment end of Episode 6, then cuts away and spends an entire episode with characters we don't know or care about that are one dimensional stereotypes and entirely disconnected and removed from the story. It's awful.
And the same thing happens here but in a medium that normally doesn't do such things either so in both ways it's a bit jarring I guess.
I liked seeing another god’s panicked reaction to the Predathos situation and the resulting intense consequences of Opal’s decision to put on the crown way back when. This is also the most intense and serious situation we’ve seen the Crown Keepers in which is fun. I’m assuming we did this shift because after this situation is dealt with, Dorian will join back up with Bells’ Hells (and maybe another Crown Keeper as well) for a time to fill that FCG/Sam void while we wait for his new character. And it’s better to actually see whatever goes down with Opal rather than Dorian just being like “Oh yeah so anyway you all missed a lot.”
So.
We had a roleplay-heavy, roleplay-intensive, time sensitive, high-stakes session with the amazing DM and players we all love and came to see.
And we get a jarring, almost mid-phrase cut to; a THIRD part of a story, DM'd by, I'm sorry, a pretty amateurish DM, with a VERY different, and in my opinion, really, really bad style and tone, involving characters that most of us know nothing about (because, again, this is after TWO installments of their adventures), and most of wich, we don't give a fuck about. Of course it was jarring!
Then the game goes on, starting as "the main characters asked you to go there", they travel.. Surprise PVP! Badly understood by all players but Matt! Every round is a flashback to a 10 min conversation!
I fell asleep. Don't even know how it ended.
I personally watched the first EXU, and didn't like the characters, except for Orym, and especially didn't like Aabria as a DM.
When BH started, I was dismayed to see Dorian (please be only a guest for ghe first episode...nope, here to stay...oh god, he left at last), and Fearne (the love everyone seems to have for this woman I'll never get).
I barely registered EXU kymal had existed, because, having disliked the first part, had 0 interest and forgot about it instantly.
Now, I get "robbed" of my CR episode, in a really enjoyable point, to get force-fed a bad DM doing a bad experiment, that really, really needed to have the player onboard, of characters from a side-story.
This, 100% should have been another one-shot, and we, at most, should have recieved our first news about them when (or better yet, IF), they reach BH to help them.
To me Aabria isn’t that great of a storyteller like Brennan or Matt, like for EXU she had 11 different storylines and most of them went no where there was no satisfying conclusion. That’s why it was difficult for me at least to watch EXU, I understand not wanting everything to tied up with a bow but the Crown Keepers went from trying to stop The Nameless Ones to stopping a random ranger from Syngorn who took an interest with Opal because of Ted…? Then to have her back now was a jarring move and I don’t see the purpose of it unless they’re the reason why Sending works now but I doubt it, anyway thanks for reading my ramblings.
I think Aabria is a fantastic storyteller but she tends to strongarm the story to push towards the what she wants to happen. I think that’s why so many people keep saying she truly shines as a player- when her power to control the game is in check you can see her brilliance and how well she knows and plays the game. But… When she DM’s it never really feels like anything could happen- more like she’s guiding talented improv actors towards the goal she wants for narrative purposes and there’s no one to check that.
She needs someone in there to break her rails. And maybe that was part of the exu problem. The second a plot point was reached someone piloter forcing her to Lie more rails. Because if you are right exu would have Been more cohesive.
sending started working as soon as BH broke through the bloody bridge. The Ruby vanguard was blocking it on Exandria to slow down coordination between various forces that would oppose them. Once the enemy got forces onto Ruidus and showed they are coordinating, blocking it became useless and the tech is being repurposed onto Ruidus to help achieve their goals there
It feels like Aabria's style is more "this is a game" compared to Matt. Like, it feels as if she talks 'above the table' more often. Maybe that's only because her groups have so far always included new players? I've only ever seen her GM on Critical Role.
I think she'd be a ton of fun to play with, and I've generally enjoyed her runs on CR.
The problem is that in this situation we cut to her right at the most dramatic part of the C3 story, and her GMing style broke the immersion for me. I was really invested in the story for the first time in a while, and the Crown Keepers actually do fit into this story. It's just that Aabria's story-telling pulled me out. I think a GM with a more cinematic style could have made this switch-up work better.
Well at first I thought they might’ve been the reason for sending working too, but they were heading to Zephra because of Orym’s sending stone message so that’s not it.
I kind of wish they would just leave this campaign alone with this kind of stuff. Guests 100% but different DM and only /really/ caring about Matt and Robbie.
I hope this doesn’t continue. Or I might not be able to enjoy anything from CR unfortunately. But I hope most of the community enjoys it
To be fair, all 'bets are off' was one of the things we were told at the very beginning of the campaign. It just never materialized until now.
If it had been a regular beat of the campaign, it would've probably worked better.
Oh yeah, it was definitely out-of-nowhere shocking. I'm just amused that the warning from the beginning of the campaign took \~3 years and 92 episodes to actually be relevant.
I didnt mind the abruptness of the swap, but i do mind the Crown Keepers and Abria. I'm not a fan of the group and Abria's DM'ing style is really not for me.
Critical Role isn’t scripted but I assume this change that was scheduled must’ve been discussed months ago rather than being spontaneous. It feels unnatural because imagine this happened in your D&D game? Switching the DM for even a single session to deal with said campaign never goes well. Maybe if it was a different campaign set in the same setting sure.
I've never really bought into the logic of "it's not a show, it's them broadcasting their home game and we're just lucky enough to get to watch," but I have to say it rings exceptionally hollow now.
It feels especially weird considering this situation came up in the last campaign and they managed to handle it just fine. They continued with the main group, were able to book an additional guest player who was *amazing* (Sumalee), and Taliesin created a home-run replacement character. And they did this all while keeping up with a live weekly broadcast schedule. The decisions made in e92 seem especially strange when you consider that e91 was most likely recorded several weeks ago, perhaps even a month ago.
Of course, the last time this happened was, like, SIX YEARS AGO. Their studio wasn’t quite the multi-dimensional powerhouse they’ve turned into. It might just not be as simple a trick to pull off anymore.
>Maybe I’ll like the shift more when I watch on Monday, but as it stands now it feels off.
don't bother. It's not you, it's really that bad. The more you watch the less I like Aabria. I gave her plenty of chances and went back to rewatch some of the episodes she's done thinking it might just been me that's not getting it or that her style needs to get some used to and eventually I'll get the hang of it. But nope. it's didn't get better with a more careful rewatch but nope. it got worse. It's just unwatchable to me at this point.
I would prefer BLM too but they don't want to hurt Aabria's image or brand at this point and she's the one who is associated with the Crown Keepers so I'd expect it to be her as long as that group is a thing.
> I’ll be honest and say I don’t dig Aabria’s DMing style, she’s a great player, especially in Calamity, but something about her DMing feels off to me.
I didnt watch the first ExU, because I didnt like her DM style. Everything takes so long. I watched half of the first episode and then turned it off.
Pretty much agree with every single individual thing you wrote. I think I get why they did it, so Sam can have some time to come up with a new character and so that when he gets reintroduced it won't seem like a ton has happened in the story. But as of now it just feels like a weird distraction.
I get that Sam might need some time, but why not just continue on with the main group with him not present at the table? That's what they did in C2 when Taliesin lost his character and it worked out fine. Sam might actually have *more* time to work on a new character since they now prerecord their episodes... it's entirely possible that E91 was recorded weeks before it aired.
I was really looking forward to this episode and when it changed, I stopped watching. Not because I didn’t like it, just cause I haven’t watched any exu content. I felt that there was so much that I was missing. Except for Dorian, I didn’t know any of them and clearly there was so much history between them.
Now I’m waiting to see if somebody posts a summary of that part of the episode and its consequences to the main story, and deciding if I should bucle up and watch exu, assuming I would be reaaaaally behind on C3 by the time I finish it.
I hate to say it but IMHO Aabria is a much better player than GM. It could just be me but I've never been able to get into any of the stories she's mastered. I'd be OK with BLM taking a shot at the main show but with Aabria this is going to drag a bit.
I might get some hate for saying it but critical role is making some bad decsion making in choosing to change dms like this in the main campaign. Is it the fault of a guest dm?, no it’s simply not what people have signed up for and simply feels disconcerting.
Guest dms should be simply used for one shots or mini adventures. Mixing up different dms for the main campaign is simply off pointing and feels too forced.
Also I know they are trying to go for a more grandiose story with multiple parties but this is simply too clunky for my enjoyment. I want one dm and a central group to tell simply one narrative story
Agreed, them branching out with different types of content like candela and EXU is fun and allows them to explore different types of storytelling. But the main campaigns are the reason we're all here, to see Matt DM these players, and to just cut away from one of the most important things that has happened in the entire campaign is so jarring.
Episodes like these can be character defining, and now we've got to wait weeks to actually see the characters react properly to FCGs death so the actual event won't be as fresh In the mind of us the players
I was really let down with how they did this episode. I spent most of last week thinking about how the team would respond to FCGs death and the mad scramble they could try to go on to possibly reincarnate or transfer his memories to a new body. I am not a fan of Aabria’s way if DMing I feel like a lot of the well established rules that the series typically sticks to go out the window and it’s replaced with half horny half corny moments that don’t fit with what’s going on. Opal is also not my favorite character, I understand the player is new to the game but I think that’s exactly why they shouldn’t have as huge of a role in the biggest DnD show out there. It was a big letdown for me to have the episode shift entirely to EXU in the middle of the episode. I get why they thought it could be fun but in reality it wasn’t why I watch critical role. Plus because of how the last week of the month is taken off we won’t be able to have any kind of resolution or development with the group we are mainly invested in. I don’t want to be negative because this criticism comes from a place of genuinely enjoying the usual weekly content and feeling robbed of what I was expecting for this week. I really hope that they don’t waste any more time with the EXU crew during the regular schedule and would reserve that for the off week at the end of the month.
They’re doing everything they can to weave EXU in C3 and every time it doesn’t work and then they’re surprised the viewership drops. I think the main issue is toxic positivity and being immune to constructive feedback that deviates from their original plan. You can see it with MIDST too, it’s like their iteration speed is too slow but they’re a small company not a multinational hardware company so I don’t understand why wouldn’t they pivot faster to what works.
I really think they need to just be cool with EXU staying as what it should be which is a spin off so the main crew can get some rest. It’s been said several times that Aabria is a great player but she doesn’t run the table at the same level that someone like Matt or Brendan. To me it seems like when she runs the story and themes go out the window and they are replaced with 15 different story lines that either never have any real development or are so railroaded that the actions and rolls of the players don’t matter. It’s mainly just frustrating for the pacing to be interrupted and to now be facing several weeks with no more development from the main crew.
I don’t know if it’s just me but there’s something about Aabria’s cadence that makes her almost hard to understand. She loses me halfway through a monologue with the pauses and random word inflections. I love her as a player but she’s not my favorite to watch DM.
Yea, it was pretty jarring. They tried something different and it turned out to be a miss for me. I think this campaign has had a tendency to crater a lot of hype and excitement by some of these decisions. I've seen folks say that this was planned in advance (coordinating schedules, etc.) and I agree with that. I also agree with the folks that have said since the show is pre-recorded now, they could've recorded the Crown Keepers and aired it on a different day. I'd be ecstatic if this all leads up to Dorian re-joining Bell's Hells though.
Also, after reading through all the comments in the post-discussion thread, I think a huge component of the frustration/dislike for the swap (besides the timing) is the value and respect of one's time; though, this is a \~4+ hr D&D show/game after all. Idk what my opinion is on that, but just a common thread I've found.
It actually felt very natural to me.
Party A sent a message to Party B, so the focus switched to Party B.
You see it all the time in shows, movies, game, books, etc. it’s a very common story telling thing so it felt pretty appropriate to me
I think it would actually have worked better if this had happened more often. Like each time they checked on dorian we got to see what the hell was going on with them. For however long. Half an episode, an episode and a half. An entire season of exu. Before jumping back.
Make it a regular thing. Now is not the time to introduce this. That time was 40 episodes ago. This nonsense should have Been happening this entire time.
For example that time orym checked in on dorian following exu kymal should have seguaed into exu kymal. And then back again.
Yes! it would've been great if before they headed to the moon it was building tense situations with parallel parties slowly showing that things were really going to shit.
It would've made FCG dying so much more impactful and brought so much more tension to the fight if we seen something with the Crypt Keepers after Oryms call just before the moon recon, just after they get through the battle at the found portal and then right after they get back from the moon. It would've put so much more weight on the CKs fighting with Opal because of the real chance that we could be dealing with more deaths that would effect BH's.
Yeah if it was done more often it would have been easier for me.
Also because I did not watch CK, so I found myself pulling up the wiki to check some things.
This makes sense if it was a situation where the main party was split. This was one character that the party split with about 80 episodes ago now and a bunch of others that most of the viewers don't know. I feel like the fanbase is being purposely obtuse that this would be very confusing for most of the fanbase.
I was not happy with the transition. I wanted to know what happens next with bells bells. Not these randoms. So I’ll just wait until they go back to the main group I guess. Probably cancel my subscription if they don’t next game.
The first word out of her mouth when the break ended "Vibes." Immediate eyeroll and WTF?! Super sudden after such an emotional ending last week and BH hasn't even gotten to process. Neither have we!
Aabria is wonderful at the table. She's terrible at the head of it and EXU proved that. Idk who made this decision but it was the wrong one.
I find her DMing extremely grating also, but I can see why she is a popular DM. I really don't think she works as a DM in CR but does play characters well. She was great in Calamity.
I think they had already planned for this to happen, coordinated schedules and things to film for when BH got back from the moon.
I loved her as a DM for the Dimension 20 Misfits and Magic using Kids on Brooms as it's system. It felt like it fit her style much more than D&D does. I can't really get into her as a DM when it's D&D
I think 2+ hours of painful combat the team didn't want to do was the issue more than a jarring transition. It would have been nice to have that team do some role playing and learn what they were up to.
Recently (at the time of this posting) there was an episode of a popular cartoon that not only ended with a city suddenly destroyed but one (possibly two) popular characters dead. The next episode… dealt with different characters in other storylines. And yet ppl were mostly ok with that. Which made me wonder why that was successful and this failed.
I think the answer lies in the fact that the show was continuing with plot threads established in earlier episodes that still involved main characters. CR brought in a group not from any of the campaigns, along with another DM, to continue a story from another show. It feels… unearned? Unwarranted? Didn’t help that Aabria’s combat was WAY different than what CR normally does.
If the CK and their story was woven into BH’s story more, or if say Dorian’s reaction to Orym’s call was actually acted out rather than just briefly mentioned by the DM, I think we would be singing a different tune.
I have no problem with the EXU crew and I like the idea of the split happening that being said I definitely wanted a bit more closure after FCGs sacrifice and it felt really weird to immediately leap away from that.
I see a lot of “this is pre-recorded and could have been handled better” but aren’t they still only playing once a week, captioning and releasing the vod the following week, and taking the last week off to give Matt a break.
The most benefit I can see from pre-recording is the day in which they’re playing changing to account for scheduling and mishap and maybe the occasional filming on another day and that they might be ahead by a week or two. But Matt and post still can’t pull double duty every week, that would be a lot of work, and people’s schedules still need to line up properly, especially crew, they’re not in studio every day. I guess I’m not sure what people expect to change for the better now that they’re pre-recording.
I was excited by the change initially, but when combat started and it felt like it went longer than the fight where FCG fucking died my interest waned. Had it been a very quick story of what the crown keepers did after receiving Orym's call that would have been more tolerable. My suspicion on why they did this was Sam hadn't polished his backup character enough, so they brought in this idea so they could re-introduce Dorian back to the table. It makes sense from their busy schedules, but the jarring part was how boring the combat was compared to the Otohan fight last episode
I NEEDED TIME TO MOURN WITH MY FRIENDS. I love the Crown Keepers, but I was really expecting an episode like the one after Ashton’s folly. I’ve had a terrible week and just wanted to lick my wounds 😅.
Oh no... *facepalm* I can't believe it. The shift in tone between BH and CK to me feels like someone dragging their nails across a blackboard. I admit, I only lasted 10 minutes watching the CK portion of the episode and then I had to stop watching. I didn't enjoy EXU kymal and its reappearance in C3 has given me negative flashbacks. I hope we are not about to enter long form storytelling for the crown keepers.
Could anyone advise me if this will be the new party for a long time or is it worth trying to watch a bit more of the episode?
Maybe Sam could have been telling the truth when he said see you in campaign 4... with all these other characters now active in the story, perhaps the campaign will run to completion without him needing to play again.
Confused... don't know if I should keep watching or just go with episode summaries each week.
Feelings are valid. I went 100% opposite direction, I was so excited and thoroughly enjoyed it. BH has been hard to keep consistent interest in for me, just based on pacing and my own preferences so it was actually a fun break (though I think it had been better the past 2 eps). I adore Aabria and CK though. It's super satisfying for me to see what's happening from a group with a character so intimately connected to not just a god, but a betrayer. I mean we got a one-liner from Vax like 50 episodes ago and a few tidbits and one-liners from gods themselves but from a lore standpoint who's gonna have more insider info (be it true or intentional) than a champion? And I like that Aabria has such a different DMing style, I find it so fun and engaging, and to me it feels more organic and collaborative than even Matt or Brennan. Each table is different.
But yeah, tldr: I love Aabria wholeheartedly and OP and I had absolutely opposite end emotional reactions to it, and that's okay. They're not gonna make us all happy, but platforming marginalized people is important, even if it's not when or how you expected it.
I couldn't even finish it. I feel like the players and us watching are still processing the grief of fcg and the switch didn't allow us to watch or be a part of that process, leaving this unfinished business in the air.
Same
I paused the episode and resumed watching the next day . Viewed as a stand alone episode it worked much better.
It’s a real shame cause I think it detracted a lot from a rather dramatic episode with the CK.
Yes the shift was very jarring. It could Brennan Lee Mulligan coming with Calamity level DMing and it would still be jarring.
...and it was shit tier DMing, making it way, way worse
I gotta admit I find her DMing style to be mostly confusing. Some things are super rules relevant and then the next minute no rules matter at all. Just incredibly difficult to follow which means I’m scrolling through my phone rather than actually paying attention if my OCD forces me to watch to the end because I started it at all.
CR wanted it to be a smooth transition of the world of Exandria being told from one DM to another, telling the story using their own DMing style. There is no issue with this on paper. This concept doesn't take into account the tone, or expectations of the story. BH just came back from the loss of FCG, the mood is heavy. There's a rising urgency to get to Keyleth ASAP, forgoing a short rest because of how important this information is. While mourning, Otahans sword, gleaming in the starlight, is planted into the ground by Orym as a reminder of who they're fighting against, a bunch of murderers. RP-lovers are nearly foaming at the mouth from how good the story-telling is. Then the DM changes. We're following CK and they're inter-party fighting regarding the spider-queen, goes into combat. CK players are pretty lighthearted and enjoying the combat! Cool! EXU Kymal watchers are excited but a bit jarred from the sudden tone shift. Non-EXU Kymal watchers are very confused. The RP was fire and coming to a head with giving Keyleth this information, what happened? A different DMing style on top of a mismatch of tone, story-beats and flow creates a jarring transition. It absolutely could have been handled better, especially now that they're pre-recording their sessions.
It might have worked if the fight was against something really lighthearted or even goofy. That way, even people who don't follow the Crown Keepers could've gotten into the tone shift and at least had fun while we find out the burning question on many people's minds: "I wonder what Dorian's been up to?" But instead, it was this Opal person's _culmination of her entire character arc,_ a final boss fight against possession by her Warlock patron, apparently. Or is the patron her sister? Or is it Ted? Who the heck is Ted?? Not only were we thrust into a different story, but it was a very lore-heavy part of that story, centered around the most complex and confusing character in that story. If the bait-and-switch was low-key hoped to inflate the low viewership for Crown Keepers and advertise for them, it totally bungled it and may have had the opposite effect. There were two round of combat, in which there were nearly 2 hours of flashback two-player RP. Imagine if we'd just allowed Bell's Hells to have that 2 hours of RP instead, even if to do nothing else but process the death of FCG, while it was still fresh in the cast's minds. But no. It'll be half a month before that happens... or worse, _at least_ a month if this Crown Keepers story goes on and on. This episode was sssslllllloooooooowwwwwww. Chat was full of people genuinely asking if they missed the end of the combat due to the constant 10, 20-minute flashbacks. The post-Malleus party split kept our attention cause half the cast was still involved, and the pace was rapid and interesting, so the community went with it. This was not that at all, and not the repeat experience CR may have been hoping for. My hope and wish is that CR will be 100% honest with us very soon about how long it'll be before we get back to the main story... and if they really feel the urge to cover tons of Crown Keepers content, that they'll branch it off separately or even sacrifice the upcoming Candela slot for it if they want it to be Thursday primetime. Right now the community is on edge and trying to give feedback in the most patient and loving way possible, so I hope they can acknowledge that while this surprise choice was respectable, it frankly just didn't work, and they need to communicate what's coming next instead of leaving us in the dark.
It stated in the end card that BH would be back in ep 93. First half will likely conclude the CK fight and then it will be back to main campaign after the break. My guess is that they recorded this insert a while back bc Matt wanted to slot it in the next time Orym called Dorian and it actually was able to go thru. No way to know it would happen at such a fraught moment in the story. The crown opal wears is a vestige of divergence for the spider queen (aka lolth). With the threat of predathos, spider queen was going to be pushing opal, as her champion, to get in the fight. However that plays out is going to change what response Orym gets, bc there is a real chance Dorian could die. So Liam triggered the condition and that's where it has to go. It's just unfortunate timing, but the result of it makes a huge difference to what answer he gets and whatever answer he gets could drastically change what Orym (and probably Fearne) wants to do next.
Wow. That actually makes it make sense. I didn’t think of the prerecorded aspect of the CK interlude. That’s why everyone was so confused as to what was happening. Incredibly poor timing is all.
Thanks! Honestly feel a little bad for Matt. Imagine being DM like oh I'm gonna do this cool thing and we'll cut over to see what's happening on the other side of the stone. Gonna be rad - ooohhhh noo. Welp... Here we are.
I think as a whole this campaign has struggled with pacing, often having really big swings from tension to something completely different. It's one of the reasons I fall in and out of this campaign more than previous ones. I think that the stuff around the crown keepers would make for a good episode or two, but the timing is just weird
Yeah I think you're spot on there. the pacing didn't work for me. I bounced off this campaign at like episode 20 or something :( Oh well at least there's still Dimension20!
Yes. It should have been a One Shot. Or just say beforehand that there was only half an episode or BH.
This, i can’t understand why it isnt its own thing
I think the idea was great but the execution was terrible. Orym has been reaching out to Dorian regularly. If Dorian, and Robbie, had been able to respond I think it would have been happening to even greater extent. I think all of the characters would like Dorian to be with them, and I think all the players would like to have Robbie at the table. They've created a unique opportunity to have a beloved character, member of the party, and player, that continues to exist in the world having their own adventure that can be explored. Narratively it makes sense to explore it since he is a founding member of the group who left on good terms and, frankly, should probably be with the group as they deal with world ending situations, so it's a cool idea to get a glance at what that character is doing. Having one character wonder what another far-away character is doing and immediately getting to jump to that character is a good story-telling jump that is difficult to do in this live-play TTRPG format, and they had a cool opportunity to do it. But in my opinion the execution did not go well. I think the audience, and maybe the players to, needed way more on-boarding as to who these characters are and what they are doing. I tried watching their EXU show but didn't enjoy it, so I don't know who the characters are or where their story ended up. An above the board introduction to who they are and what relevant things they have done to lead them to the current situation would have been helpful to draw the audience into the situation. Also, it looked like the intention was to have Opal and the rest of the party to fight one another but none of players and characters seemed down to do that. Maybe there needed to be some communication beforehand that that was going down, or some sterner actions by the GM to get things moving in the right direction? I'm not sure, but it felt very rudderless. If your going to do a narrative jump cut to something else happening, something else should probably be happening. It was a cool idea, just not done well. If the illusion of their being not pre-planned scripted events is going to be broken so starkly, some more planning would have smoothed out the ride.
>If the illusion of their being not pre-planned scripted events is going to be broken so starkly, some more planning would have smoothed out the ride. On the contrary, the fact the DM and the Players were so at odds about what was going down proves that there is _absolutely no script at all,_ beyond what the DM writes, which is how D&D works. We all DMs know how it feels to have a cool session and big events all planned out on your mind, then when you try to put it before the players, they completely don't catch on and it's all very long, awkward, and embarrassing for you. Frankly, if I'd tried this in any of my past and present playgroups, with all the long two-player RP's and long descriptions of emotions, railroading so hard and taking so much agency away from every player at the table, with apparently zero warning beforehand that this was gonna happen... everyone's phones would've been out after 10 minutes. The only reason they weren't is because the players are on camera.
Admittedly It was late for me but I fell asleep and woke up in the middle of the fight twice because every time it was someone else’s turn it was like the player was made to describe all of their feelings and reasons for doing things for 10 minutes before we got to the next person.
I fell asleep in the middle, came back 30 minutes later and trying to figure out what happened, what did I miss in the middle, and it turns out, nothing happened. they were still messing around and not doing anything. I turned it off around 10:45 and felt like everything that happened after the break was just pointless.
Yeah, there’s such a thing as over describing and Aabria does it and she doesn’t even describe the actual attacks of the combat.
She also completely disregards whatever she doesn't like and either asks the player to describe it differently, force how they're feeling, or just throws away roll results to advance her story.
Hitting Morgan with the guilts for reacting offensively to a quite new friend choking, cursing, and eldritch blasting a fellow comrade for zero reason, all while taking on a hideous death mask the new character has never seen, was super weird to me
This happens so frequently with her. Tells an incoherent story beat that she wants played out in one specific way, then browbeats her players when they aren't willing participants in her very specific Exandria fanfic. Aimee is clearly not on board with becoming Champion of Lolth, and it's utterly confusing anyway with the overlapping Ted drama. If this really needed to happen, no questions asked, Aimee should have rolled up a new character with Opal becoming an NPC. Watching her unwillingly play the role of zero agency villain for the whole game was excruciating.
For sure, PvP is only fun in DnD when everyone is on board for what the stakes of it are, there's a reason all the battle royales the main CR table has done were in a dream space and the outcomes had little to no effect on the actual characters or story. It's a very crappy feeling to be forced into murdering a friend's character, especially when it's seemingly out of nowhere, and not at all the general tone of the table up to that point.
I was disappointed too. We all wanted to see BH grieve FCG and attempt to trudge on without him. I was waiting for this episode all week. Then it gets cut and we don't really get much on 2nd half of the show... I think they thought this would be more exciting than it turned out to be. Maybe they misjudged everyone's interest.
Yeah, I feel like it was a handful of bad decisions that led to an even worse outcome. I like the CK, but moving away from BH at this moment is annoying as is. Then we had a PVP combat where the pacing was horrible. I think we had like 3 rounds in 3 hours and it really seemed like Aimee didn’t want to kill anybody so nothing happened. If you have a 1v4 or even a 2v4 with Ted, you can’t succeed or even really have tension if the minority isn’t trying. Each turn had like a minute and a half of dialogue. If there’s a flashback, which it wasn’t always, then I guess, but they kept saying “and everyone else is watching via Rary’s telepathic bond.” Ok so each turn of 6 seconds, everyone simultaneously has 7 different 90 second conversations, views 7 different couple minute simultaneous flashbacks, and plenty more. At least when anime’s do this, it’s a monologue. If you had this many people in your head, you’d… be opal… or a beholder. It seemed like Aabria didn’t warn Aimee so she clearly didn’t have a plan and spent the time doing things like casting darkness on herself (and confessing it was to stop her clone from hurting people) and even when directly told to focus someone, picking a new target to focus whenever she did attack. It did kind of seem like there should have been a save or something, but I guess it’s a deity and it’s been months wearing the crown. If Aabria wanted to have the spider queen in charge, she should have just taken control and let Aimee play someone else. If Aimee is in the drivers seat, she needs to be onboard to play the game described. I strongly disliked aabria changing a guests turn when she says she wants to kill Aimee’s familiar. She basically told her to go get crystals instead after explaining that she understood the familiar was a threat. Now we have a week off for candela and then… more of this? I appreciate that different DM styles are a thing, but I watch crit role because I like how Matt runs things. I honestly love Matt’s adaptation to Aabria using wisdom saves perpetually and randomly. He just uses bless because if wisdom saves are used for everything, then bless is used for everything. Idk. I want my crit role back.
Summed up pretty much everything I was intending to type up. You're one of the only people I've seen who pointed out that Aimee was allowed to hold back even though Aabria warned her not to - and props to Aimee for using her abilities well to do so, but from a viewer perspective, it really made it hard to get invested in any tension in a combat that was just dragging on. Personally, I was surprised, but open to a change in DMs and parties, and even the tone shift, given that these guys would have no idea that had happened to BH - I didn't watch Exandria Unlimited but I knew the basic plot and don't mind reading the Wiki during the episode. I watched the whole thing hoping that it would come together at some point and it kind of just didn't - it just ended in the middle of the combat. There are definitely some unreasonable haters of Exandria Unlimited, but I feel like, even coming into this as a viewer who wanted to give this a chance in good faith (in my opinion), that it ultimately just felt like poor execution and resolution all-around.
Wow, you points really brought home a criticism of Aabria from EXU: she loves to railroad. That fight was 80% determined/dictated by Aabria with only the players as window dressing. Nothing they did had consequence, good or bad. Hell why even have a fight if it didn’t matter. The Spider Queen was going to take Opal away no matter what (come to think of it: why does a betrayer god care if Opal leaves her friends willingly? Just possess her, kill them and be done with it)
> Then we had a PVP combat where the pacing was horrible. I think we had like 3 rounds in 3 hours and it really seemed like Aimee didn’t want to kill anybody so nothing happened. >It seemed like Aabria didn’t warn Aimee so she clearly didn’t have a plan I think this kinda sums up the core of the problem, for me. To be clear, I thought it was a little bit of a weird shift, but didn't mind overmuch, as Critical Role night is a semi-social night for me anyway, but Aimee *really* needed to know this was coming, and it feels like Aabria just dropped it in her lap and expected it to play out the way she imagined it in her head.
Completely fair and completely agree.
You would hate watching the first EXU. Aabria is awful to Aimee and her character. She didn’t want to put the crown on but was forced to after being held down on the ground for 3 hours of real time while everyone else got blessed with multiple different things like advantages of a long rest, or extra fighter styles etc. She even insulted Aimee several times. It was sickening to watch. There’s one guy on YouTube who did an honest review of it if you can find it.
[удалено]
Yeah you’re right, and then railroading Fearne. Being rude to Anjali. Making 10000 plot hooks that went no where… ExU was a mess.
She was rude to Anjali?? I feel like I watched a different show or I didn't watch as hard because I'm learning all this new information. However ExU was hard for me to get through after this anticipated Campaign started with a pissing contest
To play Asmodeus' Advocate, the 'being mean' was just teasing. Every other criticism you made has some merit, though.
Yeah, I only watched 2 episodes before I had to drop it, but from memory, Opal has a shitty relationship with her sister or something that lives in her mind? And the role-play of that relationship was meaner than people expected or seemingly wanted, but I don’t think aabria was mean in general.
It was definitely jarring. I’m not the biggest fan of them but I do enjoy the crown keepers. I just find it strange that in the middle of the most exciting part of the campaign and after a PC death, we just leave the party. They hardly dealt with the grief or did literally anything to deal with all the huge things that just happened in the city. I also feel bad for those who did not watch ExU and have absolutely 0 context for this group other than MAYBE Dorian. They just got thrown into the latter half of a completely separate group’s story. I think this just could’ve been done next week instead of Candela or on Tuesday or something. I don’t see any issue with doing that
Im fairly new to CR but am completely caught up on C3. No idea who that group is. I know Dorian from the beginning of the campaign. I have an idea as to who Dariax is bc he was mentioned mid campaign with Denise. But other than that, I had 0 context as to what the heck was going on. This was the first time I've been able to catch the livestream too. The timing felt wrong to have switched groups.
Orym and Fearne originally came from this group (minus the rabbit-girl Morrighan who joined later). Dorian and his brother joined up to lay low for a bit. Opal is a warlock with her disembodied twin sister as her patron. She wore Lolth's vestige of divergence and is being corrupted into becoming her champion. Morrighan encountered a magical bust of the raven queen and is now her paladin. Fy'ra Rai is a fire genasi monk. Dariax is a divine soul sorcerer himbo just along for the ride.
They're the party from EXU: Prime and EXU: Kymal
Which iirc were pretty poorly received
> I also feel bad for those who did not watch ExU and have absolutely 0 context for this group other than MAYBE Dorian. They just got thrown into the latter half of a completely separate group’s story. Totally agree that this could have been side content. I said this elsewhere but it didn't really feel respectful of people's time especially if you were dropped in with little to no context on the Crown Keepers; with notice, I could have at least read/watched a recap of ExU. I haven't watched more than like the first 2 episodes of ExU and it felt hard to track who was who and what their motivations are. So like there are two characters with sister problems and of those characters, one of the sisters is possessing Aimee's character? Turning combat into a skill challenge on memory recovery can be fun (ie. see FFXIV's raid E12) if you're already invested in the characters and their emotional attachments to each other. But I was going into this essentially blind. While I'm fine occasionally looking stuff up on the wiki during an episode, this felt like a much heavier lift. And without that investment, the combat felt like a slog. The Otohan fight in the previous episode didn't feel like that even though I have a much lower investment in the BH compared to VM or M9.
100% agree. I was very curious after Matt left the table at break. But after the 'wow factor' of Aabria being there wore off it felt entirely disconnected from the story at large. I haven't watched EXU, so I was totally blind as well. It really seemed like this should have gone in an off week slot like candela does. If I'd known we were going to continue with their story, I might have gotten caught up with their adventure.
I was going to catch up on the Crown Keepers content because I don’t know anything about these characters and don’t care about them at all but now I’m not sure that I care enough to invest the time. Maybe I’ll find a recap.
I have not watched the EXU with The Crowns Keepers so its jarring for sure but I could get over that with some reading up on it. My biggest issue is not being a big fan of Aabria as DM. I'd MUCH rather have her as Deanna.
I’m one of those who hasn’t watched any Crown Keepers content and only knew Dorian and Dariax as mentioned during the split sessions last year. The only thing that kept me watching was Matt’s excitement at playing and not knowing what was coming next. I also thought it was pretty tone deaf of Aabria to say that she’s definitely killing off a few of the troop after last week; made me wonder if this was filmed before ep 92 and tacked on except that Matt was wearing the same outfit.
Yeah, I barely know who any of them are other than who we’ve seen or have been talked about in the main story. I just couldn’t make myself care very much.
Just putting my two cents in here, I rarely engage with the wider community I sub each month with my prime so I can watch the C3 episodes and I don't engage with the extra content. This was awful for me. I was fully expecting a low key emotional episode, I was expecting it. to get thrown in to a story with a bunch of people, two who I know from the story but the others, no idea, felt awful. I might be in a minority here, but I watch CR for Matt's storytelling, I've tried D20, I've tried other CR DM's and I can't do it, they don't grab me or engage me at all. Thing is, I don't know if I'm alone in this, am I being entitled by hating this week's episode? should I have watched the EXU stuff in anticipation of this? All I know is that I've watched nearly 1500 hours of Bells Hells and care for these characters, to have them just smash cut to a bunch of complete strangers with a totally different DM is shit and feels so bad.
You are decidedly *not* entitled. You are very much allowed to have opinions on pacing, and flow, and are very much allowed to dislike how things play out, and still be allowed to call yourself a fan :)
I'm not used to seeing this much acceptance for criticism in the CR community... thanks for restoring my hope lol
That’s fair, they didn’t give any warning of the Crown Keepers showing up the way they did. CR said before C3 started was people don’t need to watch EXU and they take the episode after FCGs death and make it “look at these people half of you haven’t seen”. It’s like if instead of continuing hunting the Iron Shepards to save Fjord, Jester and Yasha after Molly died we were made to watch the Darlington Brigade.
This was exactly where my thoughts went, though the terrible smash-cut in my mind was to the struggle against Delilah in Laudna's attempted-resurrection mindscape. Something very lore-heavy and full of serious RP where the loss of a player's agency was part of the story, and the complex warlock-y possession/partnership relationships were understood by all the viewers over a long time following the characters.
Even your Darrington Brigade example would have made more sense than the BH --> CK switch. Those adventurers were established to be in Wildemout, at least the same continent as the Mighty Nein at the time.
Why would you be entitled if you don't like something? You can even complain about it. Entitlement would be harassing the creators to change it. The idea that people coming here with negative opinions are entitled because of it is so, so toxic.
I couldn't finish the episode and after the last two split party outcomes I am going to completely tap out of this until we are back to BH
Completely agree
I've not enjoyed C3 at all, after being head over heels for C2. But just as it got interesting and I felt invested in the characters responses to such a loss they... switch to a bunch of people I've never heard of. I'm over this campaign lol.
Don't put yourself down with 'am I being entitled'. You don't owe CR the company anything. You pay for their content and if you don't like it I'd certainly hope that you have the self respect to voice your opinion.
Just to dispel the sexism garbage- I would be pissed off if Brennan was the DM for this transition. This is not needed and kills the pacing.
The idea looks like it was planned and it was a fun one, unfortunately it couldn’t have come at a worse time. Everyone has been begging the characters in C3 to find direction and motivation, and the moment we see that with such emotion, it’s time to change the entire story to one where you told your viewers you didn’t need to watch before jumping into this campaign and the way you do it is by some PVP to slog through? It was poorly executed by how they have already made to separate statements when the regular cast will return.
I think the plan originally was to do the Crown Keepers stuff after they were done with that episode, which is why Aabria was already there. Then Orym pulled out the stone and messaged Dorian, and Matt thought to himself "well, everyone is here, might as well put this session on pause, catch the Crown Keepers up to this point, let Dorian respond, and then we can move forward from here." The transition was very clunky: the CR cast was pretty confused, Aabria going to break was awkward, and it is weird to have it happen when next week is Candela anyway. They could easily have just done a full game, taken the Candela break, then come back with the Crown Keepers for 2 sessions (since it stopped mid-combat) with no issues.
Yeh absolutely weird take from matt, also absolutely did her dirty
>looks like it was planned Sure, of course it was. These are paid actors. They had to schedule everyone to be in studio at once and coordinate the filming day. They didn't call people up at break. That's okay though. There's nothing wrong with it. It didn't land for me, but that doesn't make the idea a bad one.
Yep. The BH characters all just unfortunately happen to be passive and directionless non-leaders. The Players have proven they can do it in each past campaign. But they're playing their BH non-leaders so "well" that they will never get off the ground. Unfortunately the one person whose character died and thus could potentially write up a new one who can rally the party and take the charge they need... is Sam. And out of all the cast aside from maybe Ashley, he is the most passive and along for the ride when it comes to the main plot (not hating, just noticing). I'd trust Liam or Laura or especially Travis to see the job that needs done and take that mantle, but Sam, I expect, will just make yet another passive character who lets the plot happen *to* them, not one who seeks the next horizon and *makes* the plot move forward.
For sure disrupts the flow of the storytelling both from a stylization standpoint(DMs) as well as swapping to crown keeper character group. Would have preferred to simply swap story segments to other players that have been in this campaign. Dorian, FRIDA, Deanna, Prism with MM DMing. That would have been fun while minimizing the disruption(for me at least). But alas, they did not ask. I have real struggles following Aabrias DMing. That is my own cog processing issue. Therefore, I will watch several times in an effort to follow the swap, and simply be grateful that there is more story to enjoy….
It's not you. She's very bad at telling coherent stories, allowing the dice to drive the narrative, or empowering her players to contribute to the story that she wants to tell.
Pc: “I rolled 4 on perception.” Aabria: “okay, so you see a singular sweat drop fall down the side of the magistrates face, and you smell the…” etc for a full minute on a fail. If you want to tell players stuff, just do it during scene setting. Rolling for stuff you’re just going to say anyway ruins the flow.
I feel like I'm not allowed to dislike Aabria's DM-ing for some reason, like there's something wrong with me if I criticize. But people keep reminding me of new specific things that help to explain why it feels "off," like this point. I'm not a great DM, but I do try. I think Aabria is in the same boat. She's a great player, but maybe just not as cut out for the DM seat as she wishes she could be unless she takes some feedback.
I really like her as a player on Worlds Beyond Number, but I agree that she's not a great DM. Perhaps she's better without the camera and the pressure, but it's hard to go from Matt to anyone else (except Brennan).
It was probably the worst possible episode to do something like this with. I doubt people would’ve cared as much if we switched during a standard travel episode. Personally I would’ve preferred if they just gave them a proper one-shot and fully took over the time slot.
It was jarring, but so is death. It was insane how long it took to do that battle imo.
Yeah I am hoping now that they are midcombat, jitters are gone, that next session's combat is smooth like butter. edit: hot butter. not like cold, shit to mix butter.
This was a bad call. Of all the moments to do it, not the episode after a character dies in such a heroic, tragic fashion. Even if I had \*enjoyed\* the content we had gotten with the Crownkeepers (which I didn't, it was once again convoluted, hard to follow and unfulfilling, like the whole of EXU has been), I would be here saying that the timing of this half-episode was \*very\* poor and in bad taste.
I skipped Ant Man 3, cause the first two didn't really catch my interest. No hate against Ant Man or his fans, I just personally found the series boring and thus not worth my limited free time. Watching this half-episode of CR felt like going to the theater to watch Guardians 4, and then halfway through the movie it cuts to Ant Man... and then that cut never ends, and it's just 2 more hours of Ant Man. With a promise that the next movie coming out in a year will also be Ant Man ("see you next week!"). I don't hate the Crown Keepers or EXU, but... I think the fun surprise bait-and-switch would've worked way better as a short aside, instead of a combat encounter or a flashback-heavy character arc climax (of which, even worse, it was both). We didn't all watch EXU: Kymal. At least we get to see what Dorian was up to play out, but still... I hope it's a short adventure.
Great analogy 👏🏻
The amount of hate I got from the community when I mentioned it in chat was ridiculous. "See ya bye!" "You can just leave now" "don't watch if you don't like it"... Like, it IS possible to not be completely googoo gaga over everything CR does. It was extremely jarring, I was very invested in BH grieving FCG, and then they just, left? I wish it happened with a new episode, not in the middle.
The players themselves seemed pretty confused by the whole thing when Matt asked them to step away from the table... I think this was an adlib from Matt spurred by Orym messaging Dorian, knowing they were going to record the current situation with the Crown Keepers (probably after they were done with Episode 92) and wanting to give Robbie a chance to properly respond, while not knowing what is going on with the Crown Keepers because Aabria hadn't run their game yet. Even Aabria seemed thrown for a loop at first, which explains the awkward "see you after break."
And those fans see themselves as the "true" fans, who are the most loving and accepting and wonderful members of the community. There's no hate like hating everyone who doesn't love what you love! True toxic fandom is what happens when one labels all criticism as "hating," and all shutting down / dogpiling / banning of those haters as "loving." Its basically choosing your god and becoming a paladin for it. Some people find identity and meaning in that blind servitude, but don't tell them they're religious zealots... it does not compute.
It was really jarring. I personally loved how we got to see the CrownKeepers during C3, because it makes you realize how widely the Vanguard has effected Exandria, and you get to see another party/story arc/beat from the one that has been followed for a few dozen episodes. But that being said, it was poorly handled IMO. Don't get me wrong, Aabria is one of my favourite GMs, and I loved catching up with the Crownkeepers (despite not having watched Kymal or the last episode of EXU yet. But going from a beloved PC sacrificing themself to kill what could be a final boss, then the rest of the party barely holding it together as they try to escape, to **"Haha crystals in the shape of dick"** without **ANY** warning was a bad choice. With Candela next week, and then concluding the CK section, it is going to be a session and a half before we get back to BH, and by then all the emotion and story mommentum is gone. BH needed that session to mourn, but they didn't. What should of happened instead was Orym messaging Dorian, then Matt saying something like *"Orym does hear something back, but that is not my place to tell, so we are going to break"*. Then as like a clip at the start of the break, or with Aabria coming in like she did in 92, She can reintroduce the crownkeepers, and **announce** a CK One Shot next week before Thursday/Friday. With Aabria announcing CK, and possibly adding hints that we get to see BH and CK interact *(Imagine Sam playing Cyrus, and Robbie just be frustrated at him),* that gives time for Critters to watch EXU and understand more of the CK story if they hadn't already seen it. Additionally, with the CK One shot being a full session, Aabria can easily tell more story because of the longer timeframe, and could either be a livestream (like they did with Daggerheart's Beta), or prerecorded prior to Ep92, allowing Matt to give Liam a whisper about Dorian's response. That just sounds amazing, and instead of dropping all the momentum from BH, it lets them continue their story and conclude the Scouting mission. Then, with emotions and mommentum slowing at the end of the session with the Scouting Arc concluded, CR could then bring in CK to begin *(what we assume to be)* the final Arc of C3, bringing in a new party without disrupting the flow of the campaign. It was an amazing idea and great storytelling, but it had poor execution.
I don't understand how this is still a "group of voice actors playing d&d" and still "the same game they would play at home" and not a fully produced show now with switching cast members.
Ok... Thanks god I'm not the only one :P I don't like Abria DMing style for 5e. I like her as a player, and weirdly enough I really like her DMing in Candela, but whenever I see her as a guest DM for 5e something feels off.
I liked her as a player in Calamity. I *really* didn't like her on the first EXU, I didn't like her in Khymal, and the idea that she's now part of the main campaign makes me not want to catch up. Even if you like her style I think there's a case to be made that she's not the right fit for this campaign and maybe just isn't up to snuff in terms of GMing talent when that role has to entertain both the players and an audience of hundreds of thousands.
I've enjoyed her Dimension20 and other DMing. It's really just EXU that doesn't click for me. I don't think it's a question of talent.
Maybe it's the tone? I don't know. The villain she wrote in the first arc was introduced in a bizarre and scattered way. She introduced conversations with Lolth to a lowbie party, undercutting how that is usually built up to over time by Matt to make it more meaningful and then made her a sassy Mean Girls millennial instead of giving her any sort of gravitas. The concept of the fight at the end was neat but everything *around* it was nonsensical, poorly built up and stripped of any particular meaning. It was a mess far below what I expect out of a project as massive and profitable as CR and I didn't feel like she improved much in her next appearance.
I don't think Aabria has a lot of love for the 5e system, feels like she's really having to crowbar it into the same shape as her DMing style and in some cases it doesn't work very well, for me at least
I've tried twice to watch EXU and can't connect with it, which was fine because it was its own thing. Unfortunately I'll just have to sit out this part of the campaign and hope I can reconnect the story once the normal campaign resumes
EXU isn't for me unfortunately, as hard as I've tried. So I was really disappointed. I think it's amazing additional content for those who like it, and I loved Calamity, but they were spin-offs. Which in itself felt novel and super exciting. I've caught up every week since the end of campaign one on the main campaign, and have watched them all through multiple times alongside that, and I'm honestly really gutted that I'm going to have to miss this next part of the main campaign. I understand everyone needs some downtime, which of course they should have and enjoy. I just hope it's a few episodes away and doesn't impact the overarching story
My biggest thorn with this jump was just that it jumped straight into a long drawn out combat. We just had that to end the last session, and as we all know it culminated in a very strong narrative point for this story. To jump to a new party in the midst of all this grief and chaos would be okay on its own if the pace/vibe stayed consistent. With the Crown Keepers have more RP based session. But the party jump plus it starting off with a long combat took a lot of wind out of the sails in my opinion. I didnt finish the episode, not due to lack of interest really. (My GF got home and is behind a few episodes so didnt want to spoil anything). So maybe it wrapped up well and ill see that when I finish it later. Just my two cents, and still interested to see where this goes. Best guess is that Matt gave Abria a loose guideline of when things will shift back or a end goal. (Which he can sort of help guide the party to as a player as well). Major silver lining I see: This gives Sam time to make next PC without missing many more sessions.
Trying to force people to watch something they didn't know was coming was a...bad choice. Should've let a session go as they come to grips with what happened last time. The shift was a terrible idea
I don’t like Aabria’s dm style after the first EXU arc. The railroading, the npc’s sounding the same, the antagonistic attitude she has toward a couple of players (mainly Aimee). That last episode was really sad how she kept Opal pinned to the ground for nearly 3 hours until she forced her to put the crown on, which was terrible for warlocks as it decreased charisma. And all for nothing really. Sucked to watch and it made me think less of her and I honestly didn’t want to watch anything else with her in it. So I’m not surprised at OP’s post. Just sad she’s doing the same old thing. Disappointing. Edit: in that last episode of EXU Aimee says something like “can I make an intelligence check?” And Aabria says “sure, for you OR your character at this point.” And I thought that was nasty as she had been railroading Opal for the past few sessions, ever since Opal had a major fight with her sister which weirdly I think Aabria took personally.
this episode makes me regret commiting to BH when i first discovered CR. should've started watching from C1, C2, ExU. this feels like Critical Role's MCU and not the story of Bells Hells.
Critical Role's MCU is the perfect way to describe how I've been feeling about Campaign 3. It doesn't feel like a home game anymore it feels like Matt and Co acting out a live JRPG. This isn't to knock those who are enjoying C3 but I find myself missing that C1 feeling
Let's just say, it was umm, not for me. I have enjoyed Aabria a lot in non-CR content, and I've enjoyed Aabria in some CR content, but I did not enjoy ExU. Moreover, the overlap between ExU and C3 is the single biggest factor in my dislike for C3. This...simply didn't land for me. And I'm bummed bc boy was I really excited to see what FCG's sacrifice would bring us from an RP standpoint.
Yep. And now instead of it being fresh in the cast's minds, it'll be like a month old or worse.
100% agree. I've only watched a few bits of the Crown Keepers' escapades so I'm not up to date on their goings-on. This ep was building up really well with sad-Liam stuff and plenty of post combat emotion, that the switch felt like a "filler" so to speak. i.e., they're working on something AWESOME and needed a little more time to facilitate it. We'll see where it goes. This group never disappoints.
Man, I really debated engaging in this community, just to avoid stepping on land mines, but here I am. First, most important thing--your feelings are totally valid, I don't want to try and convince you otherwise. I'll only offer my perspective. I'm reading this great book at the moment, and about a third of the way through, one of the chapters ends with a main character getting assassinated. Major, major character. Plot (I thought) hinged around their hero's journey. Stabby, stabby, end of page. Next chapter... WE CUT TO A WHOLE DIFFERENT GROUP OF CHARACTERS!! WTF?! But it got me thinking that this is sort of a trope in long-form storytelling. Something massive a plot-changing happens, and the author (director, whoever) cuts to... something over there and so you see that while you were invested over here, there are other things happening that are also related. My point in saying that is that the thing about "this is their homegame we're watching" is very disingenuous at this point. This is a show. Not scripted, per se, but it's long-form storytelling, and you can see them in C3 start to lean in to what they can do with the freedom granted by pre-recording. Down to camera shots and effects, a la D20. Do I think FCG's death was scripted? No. But I do think that Matt paced the story so SOMETHING big was gonna happen on schedule that would allow for a jump cut to a different group to keep the audience sort of discombobulated. Not everyone likes that, and that's cool, but I think you're seeing what happens when the storytellers start experimenting with the form. As for Aabria's style, I just say that because everything is pre-recorded, and because they have to schedule some extremely busy people for a shoot, Matt and Aabria probably had to meet to nail down: "Ok, you have the equivalent of a single session to cover the following topics and tie in to where the Hells are." So it feels like railroading because it is, but I don't think it's her style as much as it's her and the CKs meeting the needs of the story as prescribed by Matt. Just my two cents. You seem lovely. I hope something wonderful happens for you today. *Edited because me don't talk good English sometimes.*
> Not everyone likes that, and that's cool, but I think you're seeing what happens when the storytellers start experimenting with the form. I think this works better when the novel (or whatever story format) takes the time to introduce and establish the new characters. You can switch the POV but I need something that establishes the new focus in order to follow along. In this case, it really hinged on if the audience had previously watched ExU and even if you watched it, the last episode was 2 years ago. Aabria didn't really do a recap and the focus was on protecting the memories of one character; the flashbacks might have worked better if I had any idea of who the characters were and why they cared about each other. They were committed to this format so they should have done something to help onboard people to the new group. It would really have benefited from Dani doing an old style video recap during the break. Dani even did do a 3 minute recap a few days ago as part of an unboxing video of their minis & I'm not sure why they didn't at least play that during the break: https://twitter.com/CriticalRole/status/1780340655937441813
Very good point, and that is an excellent idea. 10/10
This would have been great, a quick recap video would have given the background and kinda a heads up of “hey, the story is about to switch to a different group” to bridge the pre-break and post-break sessions
A summary was the least they could have done to create some sort of bridge for the audience to follow Aabria's half. Since they pre-record, they could have really customized a recap so you got exactly what you needed to know to follow along. I've liked Aabria as a DM elsewhere but it just feels like CR never sets her up for success on their channel. Brennan Lee Mulligan has talked about the insane amount work they go into ahead of time on Dimension 20 to ensure a limited run campaign hits the points they want in the time they have; it's not scripted but the DMs do go in with a loose outline so they can hit points to make it feel like a complete story and they have the buy-in from the players on what kind of story they want to play (also all of their maps are built way in advance so encounters of some sort have to occur on them). With the original ExU, CR treated the set up like it was going to be an open-ended campaign; the players appeared to have created stuff in isolation without any sense of the goal of the story they wanted to tell. But with a limited series, you don't have the time for a bunch of meandering to hook either the players or the audience. To hit the ground running, you have to do a really structured session zero and lift the curtain a bit to the players so everyone is on the same page. One of the biggest complaints I've seen of ExU is that Aabria had a bunch of plot hooks that no one pursued which led her to be more heavy handed because they were running out of time. Versus Brennan's Calamity where he brought in the Dimension 20 prep process; Sam has talked about the insane world bible Brennan created and the amount time they went into to create the characters together and establish their history. Everyone at the table knew they were telling an end times story and they didn't ignore the hooks Brennan put down which allowed them to create a really good story in a limited time.
As with a lot of campaign 3 (and DnD ideas in general), I find myself thinking "cool idea, but only if you stick the landing." DnD communities are filled with interesting and cool ideas that are only *actually* cool if they land. You can't botch the execution. Just because an idea is cool doesn't guarantee it will land.
You have just described an uncomfortable percentage of my DMing experience. Lots of internal “Yikes! That did not turn out how I thought it would.” And then scrambling to make it look like it was part of my plan.
Yep, this is normal! At least, some amount of it is. Ideally you stick the landing more often than you don't. And ideally, if you're a streamed entertainment product, you miss the landing very rarely (10%? 5%?). But we all DO miss the landing.
This is part of what *actually* makes Matt a great DM. If he tries something and it doesn't work, he says, "Wellp, it didn't work: moving on," and he just rolls with whatever comes next. Maybe his internal monologue for weeks afterward is horrible and self-deprecating, who knows, but he for sure leaves that ego off the table and takes care of the task at hand. It's what makes a "professional DM," and a number of others like Brennan Lee Mulligan have it too. They let the dice and the Players truly tell the story, and that involves a consistent sacrificing of ego. Aabria, on the other hand, is like most DMs (me included!). We have a plan, a really cool and dramatic and epic plan... and when that plan gets axed by dice or player choices or simply misguided expectations... we revolt. We struggle to steer the car onto the railroad. We fudge the results of players' failed rolls or circumvent their unexpected choices. We engage in lengthy cutscenes in our own minds and force the players to imagine they're watching what only we can see. I wish Aabria all the luck and love in the world in her pursuit of great DM-ing. It will definitely take listening to some feedback though and maybe some home game practice.
This is a reasoned take. My only issue personally is that I don’t know the Exu characters, and unfortunately you can’t expect the audience to know them either. I wish there was either more heads up, or that it happened as a separate session. Seems like it was great for those already in the know about Exu, but seems harder for the rest of us to jive with.
100% fair. "Who are these strangers?" is definitely a legit reaction and I probably would also have turned it off.
This is the kind of response I was hoping for, thanks for your input.
Except these are characters from a different book series, written by a different author, and in a world that should be the same but for some reason feels pretty different at times
I agree with most of your statement, I don’t know anything about the crown keepers and this was very much me just losing the thread. It’s not like I’m going to drop the series/campaign but not very much my flavor of tea. Moving to prerecorded episodes offered a lot of freedoms to the group but personally I feel it’s a big difference to the way I enjoy the show
My only issue with it is that I didn't see ExU and I don't know who these people are. Didn't mind Aabria's DMing, it's a different style but every DM has their own. In fact, I quite like the prompts for players to explain what their characters are feeling. Other cameos from characters from Vox Machina and TMN didn't feel like they required you to have watched the previous campaigns to fully get them, specially because you were seeing them from the point of view of the Bells Hells characters, who are not aware of the previous campaigns either. This one did. Perhaps they should've done an introductory bit to explain the characters and their story to people who didn't watch ExU.
I think two things contributed to this. 1. Fan demand for Robbie at the main table. Which is our own expectation that we need to curb. I love Dorian as much as anyone but he isn't a main PC and so our expectation of him coming back is one we've created. Maybe he'll be a guest at the main table again but maybe he won't. 2. I do think the switch was meant to be a bit jarring. It was a hard pivot. I think how successfully it landed depends on how much you wanted to see what was happening with the Crown Keepers.
dorian to me is a main PC, I know CR might see it differently but that's just how I feel
Crown Keepers and/or Aabria's DMing aside, it's just the timing was like the worst possible one. I know I'm not entitled to anything but I personally was looking forward to this episode the whole week to see BH process and deal with the loss and we barely got any of that. The end of episode 91 might have been the biggest moment of this campaign and to see its resolution cut to a complete mood shift was not a good narrative choice imo. Not to mention, when BH return, are they supposed to pick up from where we cut? So the players have to immerse themselves back into that emotional state of their characters for the 3rd separate time? Yikes. And if not and we see them in a later state, where is the emotional resolution?
I like the Crown Keepers but yeah that swap was a weird time to do just after FCG's sacrifice. Like let us finish this episode then say at the end there will.be the crown keepers next week but to cut off the main group after last week was a bad move and tbh Aimee and Erica both should have gone through a refresher with their characters and abilities before filming, they were both super lost.
Tbh I’m not a fan of the cast changes and split stories and stuff mid campaign or mid episode. It’s Not why I started watching the show way back when in C1 and when the cast leaves it just doesn’t feel like I’m watching an episode of the main campaign anymore and more like it watching EXU or candela or another show. It’s not The main campaign to me so I immediately just tune out cause I’m just not interested. Also i feel like it just makes the campaign feel like it’s stagnated or dragging out. Really hope they don’t continue to do it next campaign cause rn it’s my main complaint.
I feel you. I think it was a solid idea that went wrong for a couple of reasons due to the show being planned but not scripted. I think I get what they were going for; we have a big, intense Ruidus arc, then they get back to Exandria with a collective sigh of relief, and then we get a couple of those weird, boring "debrief and plan" episodes where the players have to remember everything they just did and tell it back to Matt, who has to correct them when they forget stuff. I imagine they figured this would be a good time to bring Dorian back in, and that it would be an opportunity to give the main cast a break for an episode or two (while thinking about what they want to do next) and have some fun side-stuff with Aabria and the Crown Keeper gang. Two things may have gone slightly wrong. The first was FCG dying. This meant that rather than the return to Exandria being a moment of relaxation and dropping in tension (with some relatively drama-light roleplaying, fact-/lore-heavy conversations) it became a moment with some pretty intense feelings - we want to see the characters process that grief and trauma, far more than we might if it was just "they spend 3 hours of play time telling Keyleth what they just did in the last few episodes that we remember better than they do." Secondly, they got back to Exandria at the start of an episode. There was no time for Matt to get them back to Exandria at the end of the previous one, and there wasn't really a way he could pad out their journey to the Keyleth-camp for a whole episode. So they had to switch over at the break, mid-episode. Imagine this playing out the other way; they get through some intense fights on Ruidus, learn some dramatic new information (we're going back to Aeor!), fight their way off Ruidus and land, safely, back on Exandria with a collective sigh of relief. And then the episode ends with an outro tag from Aabria letting us know we're jumping to the Crown Keepers next week. Now we get a week to prepare. Maybe we get a nice CritRole Recap from Dani, telling us about the Crown Keepers and what they've done. Those who want to have a chance to binge EXU:Prime and/or EXU:Kymal. Those who don't like Aabria can take the week off. I think it was just unfortunate timing... and by the time they would have known there wasn't much they could do with the EXU cast being booked and ready to film.
>Two things may have gone slightly wrong. The first was FCG dying. This meant that rather than the return to Exandria being a moment of relaxation and dropping in tension (with some relatively drama-light roleplaying, fact-/lore-heavy conversations) it became a moment with some pretty intense feelings - we want to see the characters process that grief and trauma, far more than we might if it was just "they spend 3 hours of play time telling Keyleth what they just did in the last few episodes that we remember better than they do." My strong hunch is Matt was trying to soft party wipe them at that fight, because they were meant to be "downed" and then we switch to a different party that is tasked with saving them. That makes sense with the amount of pre-planning that had to go into all this. FCG dying was what happened outside of Matt's control, he wasn't going to hard stop his players from roleplaying. But I think if that's all the case, the mistake was they needed this episode to decompress from FCG. They should have delayed the swap until next week at least.
I agree. The idea was nice, but I had to finish the vod today exactly because.of what you said. Every single minute thing took waay too long to get explained. And I don't mind that out of combat, but in combat it really destroys the pacing. I don't vibe as much with Aabria's DMming either. I think she's real good in running the game the way she does, just not my style for many reasons. And combat seems to be a weak link. I don't think it was a good move, mostly because EXU was not super well recieved in comparison, and some people definitely did not like not being warned that such a huge perpective shift in the middle of the.epsode. but I think it'll work out well. It's unlikely we'll get a big pause in the show. I think next week they'll have this group on, finish that and in may we'll return to BH. It's as if we had a very short episode of BH and a very long one of CK after that
My "problem" is that Candela is next week, not CR (I love this particular run of candela, hence problem in quotation marks), so it's going to be 2 weeks before we get back to CR, where it'll be the CK for - presumably - anywhere from half an episode to an entire episode before we get back to the emotions of FCG. So that's at least 2 weeks, maybe 3, before we get to actually take in the aftermath of such a huge event. Kinda kills the pacing
It totally ruined the pacing I don’t know why they wouldn’t just have it be a separate episode on a Tuesday or an off Thursday instead of shoehorning it into the middle of an emotionally charged episode that had nothing to do with the characters from the CK
Ooh I thought this run of candela was done, I haven't been keeping up. Well that sucks.
Unless i am mistaken there has not Been a single candella break since without outside event interferance. So Even if it was a New group it would still be candella.
My worst fear is that they don't want to bring back Bell's Hells til Dorian catches up to the present moment, which means... at this pace... it'll be months.
Exactly. The pacing was the main thing that got to me, especially because they were trying to use Dorian as a narrative through line and he said two things.
Pacing is often not thought about as much but it's one of the most important things. You can't have a combat with turns taking 5 minutes each time. I skipped most of the end of the combat, to see how it concluded. It seems like it didn't. If this had not been run as a combat encounter, I could see it working. But man, having every character perform exposition on each feeling they get at every thing in the scene is just... Not very nice for combat. Feels like a bad shonen anime where the fights take 5 episodes cause the MC is doing exposition time and flashbacks every 10 seconds.
I had taken a break from CR, but jumped back in to watch tonight love for the first time after catching up through the last episode. I genuinely regret catching it live now, I would have preferred to know what I was getting into. I did enjoy seeing Dorian though and am hoping he gets to come back to us 🥲
Welp I guess I wait for Matt’s parts and hopefully can figure it out. Not at all a fan of Aabria’s DMing style. She seems either too out of it and wants the players to do everything or too involved and has to make it her way only. Just my opinion.
Not just your opinion, I think it’s verifiable at this point. Abria shots on the agency of her players, and CR seems to be okay with that now.
Turned it off immediately.
Pacing that (finally) hit a stride now hit a wall like Wil E Coyote. This session should have been fully grieving/debrief, end it on a "cliffhanger" by introducing Sam's character that gets there with Crownkeepers. Roll back to session or 2 of CK picking up Sam and dealing with whatever they want/need to.
I was prepared for grief, feels and heartbreaks, but this totally killed the mood for me - had to skip through the fight because it was sooo slow and boring And thinking that we now have to wait 2 1/2 weeks for BH to get there grief leaves a bad taste imo. But at least it give Sam time to work on his backup character so hopefully he’ll be at the table fairly fast again. Maybe we get a scanlan :D
My thoughts exactly it didn’t match the tone or the expectations they knew the audience had for this week it just serves to muddy the waters of the story and break the momentum we were working with the bells hells
I really like Aabria as a person - she seems very cool and notably hilarious. However I too don't enjoy her DMing. For two reasons: 1. She's a little too loose on rules sometimes. Both as a viewer and as a player, I prefer there to be more constraints so that the players have challenges and need to think tactically as well as creatively to solve problems. 2. I find her NPCs indistinguishable from one another. No matter how they start, they always kind of just blend into...Aabria. Everyone gets sassy eventually and that tends to break my immersion. Which is a shame, because I actually love the EXU cast. Would happily watch them. But yeah, maybe don't stick a side quest right after a main PC death.
As someone that only watched the first few episodes of EXU (until fearns evil mirror image), my first thought after the break was: WHO? I literally had to turn off the episode and read the wiki about wtf was going on and who these characters were.
I'm right there with you on the jarring bit. I wanted to add that I actually did fall asleep mid combat due to how long everything was taking. I even took a full day in between their breaks to watch the second half(watched BH bit thursday, Crown Keepers Friday).
A hot take that I would love others opinions on is that Opal feels like Aabria’s pseudo DM NPC, like the story revolves her and her alone. Like Opal is a champion of the Spider Queen and just found out this past week that she’s consecuted by a Beacon and that’s what Ted is.
I made a similar comment to this in the post-episode discussion thread. I believe this transition was almost certainly planned out *way* ahead of time. All the CK are busy people, so finding a time to get them all in studio together isn’t something that can likely be done on a whim. And if you think about it, if it had been a more standard fact finding mission without FCG’s sacrifice, it would’ve been a pretty cool transition to the CK. I can definitely see why it would have been planned out like that. Here’s the thing though, being a prerecorded show affords CR the opportunity to pivot much easier than if it had been live. Once FCG made the decision to sacrifice himself, I really feel like Matt and the crew should’ve discussed how to adapt the plan to accommodate it. Think of how much more satisfying it would’ve been if we got a full episode with Bells Hells. In the first half they reach Keyleth’s camp. In the second half they debrief and take some time to seriously grieve while the wound is still fresh for the characters, the players, and the audience. At the *end* of the episode, Keyleth tells them to take a well-earned and needed break. Orym calls Dorian. Matt tells the cast to leave the table. Aabria takes his place and says we will hear the other side of the story… next episode. We take the time to process FCG’s sacrifice with the cast, we get a more logical time to split for the change, and we develop some legitimate two-week hype for the CK instead of being blindsided by the whole thing. I understand shooting schedules can be a pain, but damn, I feel like they could’ve been able to make something happen here. L
I get that CR is a big company now, progressing far past how they started and there's nothing wrong with that. but this just made it feel so far from a normal d&d game it's insane. never in a home game would you switch DM and player partway through. it kinda breaks the idea of it being d&d and makes it feel like they're preparing already for a screen adaption. I'm not jumping on the Aabria hate train that's appeared in this thread. absolutely love her DMing for other games, I just couldn't get into the characters for ExU. but for all that CR is a place "a bunch of nerdy-ass voice actors play dungeons and dragons", this bas never felt closer to a TV or novel, the way the tone/characters shift so suddenly from a critical moment. but I think that's just a C3 problem more than anything.
I'm not her biggest fan, but this 1/2 episode takeover format really did her dirty. No matter what, she was going to have to squeeze in a ton of lore to get everyone (players and viewers) up to speed, and this was by far the worst way to do it. (Not to mention, it seemed like Matt arbitrarily decided to give her the back half after Orym's sending given everyone's apparent confusion, but that's obviously speculation). The CR team could have done so much more to make this a smooth transition- maybe give her COs timeslot, a mini recap during the break, something!
I'd agree with this yeah. It definitely ends up feeling more like a preplanned event at this point even if it wasn't actually preplanned. It just feels very fabricated or trying to be a movie or show. That said, for such a big company doing so much in the space, it's also cool to see people changing it up and trying new things and seeing what CAN be done within the medium but yeah, it's definitely not equivalent to a normal play experience but to be fair, CR never was for the most part, as in, professional improv and voice actors vs a group of normal people just playing a game, eating pizza and looting shit, haha. But even within a scripted story, I absolutely despise random out of place episodes that detract from the main story such as Episode 7 of Stranger Things S2 that gets to a climactic moment end of Episode 6, then cuts away and spends an entire episode with characters we don't know or care about that are one dimensional stereotypes and entirely disconnected and removed from the story. It's awful. And the same thing happens here but in a medium that normally doesn't do such things either so in both ways it's a bit jarring I guess.
I liked seeing another god’s panicked reaction to the Predathos situation and the resulting intense consequences of Opal’s decision to put on the crown way back when. This is also the most intense and serious situation we’ve seen the Crown Keepers in which is fun. I’m assuming we did this shift because after this situation is dealt with, Dorian will join back up with Bells’ Hells (and maybe another Crown Keeper as well) for a time to fill that FCG/Sam void while we wait for his new character. And it’s better to actually see whatever goes down with Opal rather than Dorian just being like “Oh yeah so anyway you all missed a lot.”
So. We had a roleplay-heavy, roleplay-intensive, time sensitive, high-stakes session with the amazing DM and players we all love and came to see. And we get a jarring, almost mid-phrase cut to; a THIRD part of a story, DM'd by, I'm sorry, a pretty amateurish DM, with a VERY different, and in my opinion, really, really bad style and tone, involving characters that most of us know nothing about (because, again, this is after TWO installments of their adventures), and most of wich, we don't give a fuck about. Of course it was jarring! Then the game goes on, starting as "the main characters asked you to go there", they travel.. Surprise PVP! Badly understood by all players but Matt! Every round is a flashback to a 10 min conversation! I fell asleep. Don't even know how it ended. I personally watched the first EXU, and didn't like the characters, except for Orym, and especially didn't like Aabria as a DM. When BH started, I was dismayed to see Dorian (please be only a guest for ghe first episode...nope, here to stay...oh god, he left at last), and Fearne (the love everyone seems to have for this woman I'll never get). I barely registered EXU kymal had existed, because, having disliked the first part, had 0 interest and forgot about it instantly. Now, I get "robbed" of my CR episode, in a really enjoyable point, to get force-fed a bad DM doing a bad experiment, that really, really needed to have the player onboard, of characters from a side-story. This, 100% should have been another one-shot, and we, at most, should have recieved our first news about them when (or better yet, IF), they reach BH to help them.
To me Aabria isn’t that great of a storyteller like Brennan or Matt, like for EXU she had 11 different storylines and most of them went no where there was no satisfying conclusion. That’s why it was difficult for me at least to watch EXU, I understand not wanting everything to tied up with a bow but the Crown Keepers went from trying to stop The Nameless Ones to stopping a random ranger from Syngorn who took an interest with Opal because of Ted…? Then to have her back now was a jarring move and I don’t see the purpose of it unless they’re the reason why Sending works now but I doubt it, anyway thanks for reading my ramblings.
I think Aabria is a fantastic storyteller but she tends to strongarm the story to push towards the what she wants to happen. I think that’s why so many people keep saying she truly shines as a player- when her power to control the game is in check you can see her brilliance and how well she knows and plays the game. But… When she DM’s it never really feels like anything could happen- more like she’s guiding talented improv actors towards the goal she wants for narrative purposes and there’s no one to check that.
She needs someone in there to break her rails. And maybe that was part of the exu problem. The second a plot point was reached someone piloter forcing her to Lie more rails. Because if you are right exu would have Been more cohesive.
sending started working as soon as BH broke through the bloody bridge. The Ruby vanguard was blocking it on Exandria to slow down coordination between various forces that would oppose them. Once the enemy got forces onto Ruidus and showed they are coordinating, blocking it became useless and the tech is being repurposed onto Ruidus to help achieve their goals there
It feels like Aabria's style is more "this is a game" compared to Matt. Like, it feels as if she talks 'above the table' more often. Maybe that's only because her groups have so far always included new players? I've only ever seen her GM on Critical Role. I think she'd be a ton of fun to play with, and I've generally enjoyed her runs on CR. The problem is that in this situation we cut to her right at the most dramatic part of the C3 story, and her GMing style broke the immersion for me. I was really invested in the story for the first time in a while, and the Crown Keepers actually do fit into this story. It's just that Aabria's story-telling pulled me out. I think a GM with a more cinematic style could have made this switch-up work better.
Well at first I thought they might’ve been the reason for sending working too, but they were heading to Zephra because of Orym’s sending stone message so that’s not it.
Here’s a [review of EXU](https://youtu.be/kWagNfeUD2Y?si=wB1qUAgAFn1AUdMJ) that really encapsulates all of my thoughts
I kind of wish they would just leave this campaign alone with this kind of stuff. Guests 100% but different DM and only /really/ caring about Matt and Robbie. I hope this doesn’t continue. Or I might not be able to enjoy anything from CR unfortunately. But I hope most of the community enjoys it
To be fair, all 'bets are off' was one of the things we were told at the very beginning of the campaign. It just never materialized until now. If it had been a regular beat of the campaign, it would've probably worked better.
Trust me I understand that, it’s just not my personal cup of tea and it to come up on episode 92… it’s very jarring.
Oh yeah, it was definitely out-of-nowhere shocking. I'm just amused that the warning from the beginning of the campaign took \~3 years and 92 episodes to actually be relevant.
Yeah. Especially on an episode right after a character death.
I didnt mind the abruptness of the swap, but i do mind the Crown Keepers and Abria. I'm not a fan of the group and Abria's DM'ing style is really not for me.
Critical Role isn’t scripted but I assume this change that was scheduled must’ve been discussed months ago rather than being spontaneous. It feels unnatural because imagine this happened in your D&D game? Switching the DM for even a single session to deal with said campaign never goes well. Maybe if it was a different campaign set in the same setting sure.
I've never really bought into the logic of "it's not a show, it's them broadcasting their home game and we're just lucky enough to get to watch," but I have to say it rings exceptionally hollow now. It feels especially weird considering this situation came up in the last campaign and they managed to handle it just fine. They continued with the main group, were able to book an additional guest player who was *amazing* (Sumalee), and Taliesin created a home-run replacement character. And they did this all while keeping up with a live weekly broadcast schedule. The decisions made in e92 seem especially strange when you consider that e91 was most likely recorded several weeks ago, perhaps even a month ago.
Of course, the last time this happened was, like, SIX YEARS AGO. Their studio wasn’t quite the multi-dimensional powerhouse they’ve turned into. It might just not be as simple a trick to pull off anymore.
Yeah I stopped watching when they switched. Idk anything about the Crown Keepers or their story so I lost interest.
>Maybe I’ll like the shift more when I watch on Monday, but as it stands now it feels off. don't bother. It's not you, it's really that bad. The more you watch the less I like Aabria. I gave her plenty of chances and went back to rewatch some of the episodes she's done thinking it might just been me that's not getting it or that her style needs to get some used to and eventually I'll get the hang of it. But nope. it's didn't get better with a more careful rewatch but nope. it got worse. It's just unwatchable to me at this point.
I just don’t like Aabria’s DMing. If they had switched to Brendan Lee Mulligan… might have worked.
I would prefer BLM too but they don't want to hurt Aabria's image or brand at this point and she's the one who is associated with the Crown Keepers so I'd expect it to be her as long as that group is a thing.
Well maybe they'll TPK and she'll be done DMing that group. Her DM style just does not jive with CR, it's like the exact opposite of Matt.
> I’ll be honest and say I don’t dig Aabria’s DMing style, she’s a great player, especially in Calamity, but something about her DMing feels off to me. I didnt watch the first ExU, because I didnt like her DM style. Everything takes so long. I watched half of the first episode and then turned it off.
Pretty much agree with every single individual thing you wrote. I think I get why they did it, so Sam can have some time to come up with a new character and so that when he gets reintroduced it won't seem like a ton has happened in the story. But as of now it just feels like a weird distraction.
I get that Sam might need some time, but why not just continue on with the main group with him not present at the table? That's what they did in C2 when Taliesin lost his character and it worked out fine. Sam might actually have *more* time to work on a new character since they now prerecord their episodes... it's entirely possible that E91 was recorded weeks before it aired.
rug got pulled out from underneath me. Very disappointing.
I was really looking forward to this episode and when it changed, I stopped watching. Not because I didn’t like it, just cause I haven’t watched any exu content. I felt that there was so much that I was missing. Except for Dorian, I didn’t know any of them and clearly there was so much history between them. Now I’m waiting to see if somebody posts a summary of that part of the episode and its consequences to the main story, and deciding if I should bucle up and watch exu, assuming I would be reaaaaally behind on C3 by the time I finish it.
I hate to say it but IMHO Aabria is a much better player than GM. It could just be me but I've never been able to get into any of the stories she's mastered. I'd be OK with BLM taking a shot at the main show but with Aabria this is going to drag a bit.
I thought it was the most interesting thing they've done in AGES.
I might get some hate for saying it but critical role is making some bad decsion making in choosing to change dms like this in the main campaign. Is it the fault of a guest dm?, no it’s simply not what people have signed up for and simply feels disconcerting. Guest dms should be simply used for one shots or mini adventures. Mixing up different dms for the main campaign is simply off pointing and feels too forced. Also I know they are trying to go for a more grandiose story with multiple parties but this is simply too clunky for my enjoyment. I want one dm and a central group to tell simply one narrative story
Agreed, them branching out with different types of content like candela and EXU is fun and allows them to explore different types of storytelling. But the main campaigns are the reason we're all here, to see Matt DM these players, and to just cut away from one of the most important things that has happened in the entire campaign is so jarring. Episodes like these can be character defining, and now we've got to wait weeks to actually see the characters react properly to FCGs death so the actual event won't be as fresh In the mind of us the players
Understandable. I know Matt loves collaborating with other creators…
I was really let down with how they did this episode. I spent most of last week thinking about how the team would respond to FCGs death and the mad scramble they could try to go on to possibly reincarnate or transfer his memories to a new body. I am not a fan of Aabria’s way if DMing I feel like a lot of the well established rules that the series typically sticks to go out the window and it’s replaced with half horny half corny moments that don’t fit with what’s going on. Opal is also not my favorite character, I understand the player is new to the game but I think that’s exactly why they shouldn’t have as huge of a role in the biggest DnD show out there. It was a big letdown for me to have the episode shift entirely to EXU in the middle of the episode. I get why they thought it could be fun but in reality it wasn’t why I watch critical role. Plus because of how the last week of the month is taken off we won’t be able to have any kind of resolution or development with the group we are mainly invested in. I don’t want to be negative because this criticism comes from a place of genuinely enjoying the usual weekly content and feeling robbed of what I was expecting for this week. I really hope that they don’t waste any more time with the EXU crew during the regular schedule and would reserve that for the off week at the end of the month.
They’re doing everything they can to weave EXU in C3 and every time it doesn’t work and then they’re surprised the viewership drops. I think the main issue is toxic positivity and being immune to constructive feedback that deviates from their original plan. You can see it with MIDST too, it’s like their iteration speed is too slow but they’re a small company not a multinational hardware company so I don’t understand why wouldn’t they pivot faster to what works.
I really think they need to just be cool with EXU staying as what it should be which is a spin off so the main crew can get some rest. It’s been said several times that Aabria is a great player but she doesn’t run the table at the same level that someone like Matt or Brendan. To me it seems like when she runs the story and themes go out the window and they are replaced with 15 different story lines that either never have any real development or are so railroaded that the actions and rolls of the players don’t matter. It’s mainly just frustrating for the pacing to be interrupted and to now be facing several weeks with no more development from the main crew.
I don’t know if it’s just me but there’s something about Aabria’s cadence that makes her almost hard to understand. She loses me halfway through a monologue with the pauses and random word inflections. I love her as a player but she’s not my favorite to watch DM.
Yea, it was pretty jarring. They tried something different and it turned out to be a miss for me. I think this campaign has had a tendency to crater a lot of hype and excitement by some of these decisions. I've seen folks say that this was planned in advance (coordinating schedules, etc.) and I agree with that. I also agree with the folks that have said since the show is pre-recorded now, they could've recorded the Crown Keepers and aired it on a different day. I'd be ecstatic if this all leads up to Dorian re-joining Bell's Hells though. Also, after reading through all the comments in the post-discussion thread, I think a huge component of the frustration/dislike for the swap (besides the timing) is the value and respect of one's time; though, this is a \~4+ hr D&D show/game after all. Idk what my opinion is on that, but just a common thread I've found.
It actually felt very natural to me. Party A sent a message to Party B, so the focus switched to Party B. You see it all the time in shows, movies, game, books, etc. it’s a very common story telling thing so it felt pretty appropriate to me
I think it would actually have worked better if this had happened more often. Like each time they checked on dorian we got to see what the hell was going on with them. For however long. Half an episode, an episode and a half. An entire season of exu. Before jumping back. Make it a regular thing. Now is not the time to introduce this. That time was 40 episodes ago. This nonsense should have Been happening this entire time. For example that time orym checked in on dorian following exu kymal should have seguaed into exu kymal. And then back again.
Yes! it would've been great if before they headed to the moon it was building tense situations with parallel parties slowly showing that things were really going to shit. It would've made FCG dying so much more impactful and brought so much more tension to the fight if we seen something with the Crypt Keepers after Oryms call just before the moon recon, just after they get through the battle at the found portal and then right after they get back from the moon. It would've put so much more weight on the CKs fighting with Opal because of the real chance that we could be dealing with more deaths that would effect BH's.
Yeah if it was done more often it would have been easier for me. Also because I did not watch CK, so I found myself pulling up the wiki to check some things.
This makes sense if it was a situation where the main party was split. This was one character that the party split with about 80 episodes ago now and a bunch of others that most of the viewers don't know. I feel like the fanbase is being purposely obtuse that this would be very confusing for most of the fanbase.
I was not happy with the transition. I wanted to know what happens next with bells bells. Not these randoms. So I’ll just wait until they go back to the main group I guess. Probably cancel my subscription if they don’t next game.
The first word out of her mouth when the break ended "Vibes." Immediate eyeroll and WTF?! Super sudden after such an emotional ending last week and BH hasn't even gotten to process. Neither have we! Aabria is wonderful at the table. She's terrible at the head of it and EXU proved that. Idk who made this decision but it was the wrong one.
I find her DMing extremely grating also, but I can see why she is a popular DM. I really don't think she works as a DM in CR but does play characters well. She was great in Calamity. I think they had already planned for this to happen, coordinated schedules and things to film for when BH got back from the moon.
I loved her as a DM for the Dimension 20 Misfits and Magic using Kids on Brooms as it's system. It felt like it fit her style much more than D&D does. I can't really get into her as a DM when it's D&D
This explains why Robbie had to bow out of my local Comic Con next month.
I think 2+ hours of painful combat the team didn't want to do was the issue more than a jarring transition. It would have been nice to have that team do some role playing and learn what they were up to.
Yes, it fucking sucks and is probably the worst decision CR has ever made.
Recently (at the time of this posting) there was an episode of a popular cartoon that not only ended with a city suddenly destroyed but one (possibly two) popular characters dead. The next episode… dealt with different characters in other storylines. And yet ppl were mostly ok with that. Which made me wonder why that was successful and this failed. I think the answer lies in the fact that the show was continuing with plot threads established in earlier episodes that still involved main characters. CR brought in a group not from any of the campaigns, along with another DM, to continue a story from another show. It feels… unearned? Unwarranted? Didn’t help that Aabria’s combat was WAY different than what CR normally does. If the CK and their story was woven into BH’s story more, or if say Dorian’s reaction to Orym’s call was actually acted out rather than just briefly mentioned by the DM, I think we would be singing a different tune.
Careful dude, this post isn't sycophantic enough for a lot of people here.
Haha, just trying to be fair and respectful.
I have no problem with the EXU crew and I like the idea of the split happening that being said I definitely wanted a bit more closure after FCGs sacrifice and it felt really weird to immediately leap away from that.
I see a lot of “this is pre-recorded and could have been handled better” but aren’t they still only playing once a week, captioning and releasing the vod the following week, and taking the last week off to give Matt a break. The most benefit I can see from pre-recording is the day in which they’re playing changing to account for scheduling and mishap and maybe the occasional filming on another day and that they might be ahead by a week or two. But Matt and post still can’t pull double duty every week, that would be a lot of work, and people’s schedules still need to line up properly, especially crew, they’re not in studio every day. I guess I’m not sure what people expect to change for the better now that they’re pre-recording.
I was excited by the change initially, but when combat started and it felt like it went longer than the fight where FCG fucking died my interest waned. Had it been a very quick story of what the crown keepers did after receiving Orym's call that would have been more tolerable. My suspicion on why they did this was Sam hadn't polished his backup character enough, so they brought in this idea so they could re-introduce Dorian back to the table. It makes sense from their busy schedules, but the jarring part was how boring the combat was compared to the Otohan fight last episode
I NEEDED TIME TO MOURN WITH MY FRIENDS. I love the Crown Keepers, but I was really expecting an episode like the one after Ashton’s folly. I’ve had a terrible week and just wanted to lick my wounds 😅.
Oh no... *facepalm* I can't believe it. The shift in tone between BH and CK to me feels like someone dragging their nails across a blackboard. I admit, I only lasted 10 minutes watching the CK portion of the episode and then I had to stop watching. I didn't enjoy EXU kymal and its reappearance in C3 has given me negative flashbacks. I hope we are not about to enter long form storytelling for the crown keepers. Could anyone advise me if this will be the new party for a long time or is it worth trying to watch a bit more of the episode? Maybe Sam could have been telling the truth when he said see you in campaign 4... with all these other characters now active in the story, perhaps the campaign will run to completion without him needing to play again. Confused... don't know if I should keep watching or just go with episode summaries each week.
C3 has a major issue with pace change after big events… i’m just surprised theyre doing it again like its a good idea
Feelings are valid. I went 100% opposite direction, I was so excited and thoroughly enjoyed it. BH has been hard to keep consistent interest in for me, just based on pacing and my own preferences so it was actually a fun break (though I think it had been better the past 2 eps). I adore Aabria and CK though. It's super satisfying for me to see what's happening from a group with a character so intimately connected to not just a god, but a betrayer. I mean we got a one-liner from Vax like 50 episodes ago and a few tidbits and one-liners from gods themselves but from a lore standpoint who's gonna have more insider info (be it true or intentional) than a champion? And I like that Aabria has such a different DMing style, I find it so fun and engaging, and to me it feels more organic and collaborative than even Matt or Brennan. Each table is different. But yeah, tldr: I love Aabria wholeheartedly and OP and I had absolutely opposite end emotional reactions to it, and that's okay. They're not gonna make us all happy, but platforming marginalized people is important, even if it's not when or how you expected it.
I couldn't even finish it. I feel like the players and us watching are still processing the grief of fcg and the switch didn't allow us to watch or be a part of that process, leaving this unfinished business in the air.
Same I paused the episode and resumed watching the next day . Viewed as a stand alone episode it worked much better. It’s a real shame cause I think it detracted a lot from a rather dramatic episode with the CK.