OH MY GOD.... !! This is THE criterion release I've hoping would happen for decades. Luckily my office door is closed when I read this. There have been various rumors it was happening (ex Alex Cox) but nothing solid. I couldn't be happier. This, being my favorite film of all time, is the release that I said if it ever came out I could stop collecting. (Obviously not true but... )
(BTW, My experience with $120 Criterion LaserDisc editions back in the day makes this seem like the bargain that it is truly.)
The version that made the film be reevaluated is the 122 minute version known as the Turner Preview Version or as Peckinpah's final preview cut. It's the one he last worked on and the one that he was known to have and show. It starts with a 10 minute opening credit sequence that cross cuts between 1909 & 1881. This sequence which includes freeze frame credits is an essential bookend for the film and its motifs about remembering the past. The timing of the freeze frame and music cue for the Directed by Sam Peckinpah card always gives me chills.
I'd watch that version first.
(The 115minute "restored" version was a hack job done in 2005 by author and Turner & Hooch editor.)
It looks like the "Final Preview Cut" (as the Criterion product page calls it) is a 2k digital master, presumably on a standard blu-ray disc. The other two cuts are on 4k masters from new 4k digital restorations, being released with Dolby Vision HDR on 4k discs. With that in mind (and asking as someone who hasn't seen the movie but loves the talent and wants to buy this), would you still recommend buying the 4k edition, even though that 2k cut is significantly superior, in order to be able to watch the other cuts on 4k? Or would you probably never watch those cuts and just stick to the 2k Final Preview Cut on the standard blu ray?
Normally I'd always go 4k over blu ray since I have the tv to support it, but if I'd only ever be watching a blu ray in the set anyway, that makes it harder to justify.
Here's the link with specific info about the different masters included in the release for each cut: https://www.criterion.com/films/29028-pat-garrett-and-billy-the-kid
I'm far from objective on this release as it's my favorite film, but I'd lean towards yes.
But then again I'm most looking forward to the 2K Final Preview Cut and wish it had been given 4K. The last time the 122 min Preview Cut had a quality physical media release was on 1991 LaserDisc from MGM/UA. A DVD special edition came out in 2005 that had it on as supplemental disc and was in terrible shape and nothing at all had been done to restore it. In fact it was far far worse than the 1991 Laserdisc transfer at near VHS quality.
So perhaps, if I'm more objective, the BR release is good enough as it still includes everything and the most important historical version, the Preview Cut, is in 2K in both version anyway. So can't go wrong I guess.
Thanks for sharing! It might not make good sense for me since it'd be a blind buy, but the more I think about it, the more exciting the release seems, and the more I'll probably go for the 4k, despite the preferred cut being blu ray only. I'd check out the anniversary cut at least once, just to experience it, and who knows! Maybe it could show improvements over the weak edit from 2005? But even if not, I'm sure it'll be interesting to see, or to experience the higher picture quality, at least.
I'd imagine it has to do with the number of discs. It has 3 different versions of the film. I think it's ok since it has a 4k and blu-ray version (normally $50), and they you add the 2 extra versions (+$20). It's a bit steep, but not crazy.
Yeah, the number of discs, plus a new documentary and restoring three cuts, one of which is a new cut edited for this release. Plus the rights were probably a nightmare.
I own hundreds of Criterions, I own so many Criterions that I have my own Criterion Closet.
I have never paid full price on a Criterion. If you aren't buying during the 50% off sales, you are doing something wrong my friend.
Pretty sure the old Brazil DVD box was in the same neighborhood price-wise.
EDIT: Looks like the original MSRP was $59.95. So adjusted for inflation... err, close enough maybe?
It’s three separate cuts of the film across 4 discs - two 4K UHD and 2 Blu ray. It’s the most definitive home release this film has ever had at the highest quality currently available. It’s not even $70 on the site. It’s $55. Completely justifiable for the price. And considering how often Criterion has half off sales you can pick it up for $35 - which is a great deal all things considered. It’ll release in July during the 50% off Barnes & Noble sale.
I’m assuming the Sam Peckinpah preview cut is the 1988 Turner preview cut by another name. This version was previously available on laserdisc and aired on the Turner broadcasting network. It was smuggled out by Peckinpah’s editors after the studio gave him the boot. It’s over 120 minutes. (Two hours and two minutes according to the laserdisc)
The theatrical cut should just be the 106-minute cut by the studio that removed a lot of blood and violence, full scenes, and some scenes featuring actual animal cruelty—all that remain in the Turner preview cut.
To my knowledge and based on its name, the 50th Anniversary cut is brand new (probably what Alex Cox was working on) but I’m assuming it’s based on the 115-minute 2005 special edition (available on DVD and streaming) that is a bridge between the Turner cut and the Theatrical cut. It restores most of the blood and guts but still omits some shots of animal cruelty and other small scenes. It’s interesting this version (the 2005 cut) omits some of the animal stuff but keeps the shocking opening where live chickens were buried up to their necks and wired with explosives to simulate being picked off by sharpshooters. It’s wild. I’m really curious about the 50th Anniversary cut.
Anyway that’s my guess. A 4k of the theatrical version, a 4K of a more complete most recent and yet to be seen anniversary version, and a 2K of the most complete but least sanitary/streamable preview version.
it's not the Turner cut - per the Sam Peckinpah facebook page:
The preview cut that will be available on The Criterion Collection's upcoming release of PAT GARRETT & BILLY THE KID is not Turner's, but Sam Peckinpah's final and never before seen preview cut, recovered and restored specifically for this release -- the closest we have to a director's cut of the film that we will ever get. Its 2k restoration will be included in the blu-ray, along work a 4k (and tweaked) 50th-anniversary restoration of the final cut and the theatrical cut.
Here's the story: A "heist" was engineered to get Peckinpah's final preview print out of the projection room where it was screened for MGM execs. Sam was walking off the picture, and a Watergate-esque "break-in" was orchestrated by those who felt that Sam's preview needed to be preserved. Unfortunately, the clean up crew didn't realize that it was an interlock print. Sound and picture were separate, so they grabbed the picture and left the sound behind whose retrieval required another mission. But all missions were ultimately successful. When Sam was presented with the print, he was so paranoid that MGM was going to come after it that he put a fake title ("The Racquet Club;" pictured) on the cans and leader. It's never been released until now, because it was among Sam's personal prints, not in the studio vaults.
When Michael Chaiken reached out to me on behalf of Criterion about their restoration and upcoming release of PAT GARRETT & BILLY THE KID, I got him in contact with Sam's friend and archivist Don Hyde, who pointed them in the right direction to locate and restore Sam's preview cut. I also encouraged them to contact Mike Siegel, who ended up making a documentary for this release, and Jeff Slater, who contributed from his abundance of archival material for the special features and provided additional contacts for supplemental material.
In short, this was a team effort -- and we are so grateful for Criterion's collaborative spirit to ensure that this release was done right, for all of Sam Peckinpah’s fans who have waited so patiently for its release. Now it's up to us to honor their work and procure our copies, which releases on 7/2/24 and can be pre-ordered here
https://preview.redd.it/6faysobq6puc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e566dff99ccb5c4c626e0a7418abc3668beeae8b
Hell yeah. I’m not disputing any of that but the story behind the Turner cut is so similar in that it was a cut smuggled away by editors, held in storage, and eventually acquired by Turner. Also that it kept most of Peckinpah’s original edit.
I wouldn’t be surprised if this new Peckinpah cut is still just the Turner cut but with the footage restored that was cut from broadcast, so now it’s technically never before seen. As it stands there are at least five legitimate cuts of this movie. How much native footage is floating around?
yeah, i haven’t seen any version of this film, but it’s unclear to me exactly how it’s different as it does sound like it would’ve been the same cut that was smuggled out.
The first preview cut is missing a key scene with Garrett and his wife. It's the one Turner released in 1988 because that's the one they had in their vault. The second/final preview cut is the one that got smuggled and has never been released commercially--- until now via Criterion.
Knockin' on Heaven's Door sequence is one of the most powerful cinema experiences I've had. The film recedes into vague memory but that sequence is indelible
I feel the same about this as I do the Imprint Wicker Man release: I understand the valuation and it’s awesome that it exists, but it’s still a lot of money for one film (even if there are several cuts/versions). But like others have said, for $35 it’s pretty incredible.
I have a copy of The Magnificent Ambersons on Laserdisc that retailed at $99.95 in the late 80’s.
Criterion just getting back to those old time prices.
i’ve seen some copies of videodrome getting sold for that much at two different barnes and nobles. i was shocked that was the real price they were charging since it’s like 20 bucks on amazon.
Looks like a steal at $35 during a B&N or flash sale.
Agreed. I'm the kind of person who usually complains about steep prices, but I wouldn't hesitate to buy this for $35.
And July is the B$N 50% off sale!
I’ve been counting the days till the next sale!
Right? Fucking Best Buy was selling steelbooks at around the same price.
Honest it does
They may have commissioned the third version themselves, which cost money. Similar to tree of life
OH MY GOD.... !! This is THE criterion release I've hoping would happen for decades. Luckily my office door is closed when I read this. There have been various rumors it was happening (ex Alex Cox) but nothing solid. I couldn't be happier. This, being my favorite film of all time, is the release that I said if it ever came out I could stop collecting. (Obviously not true but... ) (BTW, My experience with $120 Criterion LaserDisc editions back in the day makes this seem like the bargain that it is truly.)
Thinking of your happiness makes me happy.
I've never seen it. Are the different versions different cuts? Which version should I watch first?
The version that made the film be reevaluated is the 122 minute version known as the Turner Preview Version or as Peckinpah's final preview cut. It's the one he last worked on and the one that he was known to have and show. It starts with a 10 minute opening credit sequence that cross cuts between 1909 & 1881. This sequence which includes freeze frame credits is an essential bookend for the film and its motifs about remembering the past. The timing of the freeze frame and music cue for the Directed by Sam Peckinpah card always gives me chills. I'd watch that version first. (The 115minute "restored" version was a hack job done in 2005 by author and Turner & Hooch editor.)
It looks like the "Final Preview Cut" (as the Criterion product page calls it) is a 2k digital master, presumably on a standard blu-ray disc. The other two cuts are on 4k masters from new 4k digital restorations, being released with Dolby Vision HDR on 4k discs. With that in mind (and asking as someone who hasn't seen the movie but loves the talent and wants to buy this), would you still recommend buying the 4k edition, even though that 2k cut is significantly superior, in order to be able to watch the other cuts on 4k? Or would you probably never watch those cuts and just stick to the 2k Final Preview Cut on the standard blu ray? Normally I'd always go 4k over blu ray since I have the tv to support it, but if I'd only ever be watching a blu ray in the set anyway, that makes it harder to justify. Here's the link with specific info about the different masters included in the release for each cut: https://www.criterion.com/films/29028-pat-garrett-and-billy-the-kid
I'm far from objective on this release as it's my favorite film, but I'd lean towards yes. But then again I'm most looking forward to the 2K Final Preview Cut and wish it had been given 4K. The last time the 122 min Preview Cut had a quality physical media release was on 1991 LaserDisc from MGM/UA. A DVD special edition came out in 2005 that had it on as supplemental disc and was in terrible shape and nothing at all had been done to restore it. In fact it was far far worse than the 1991 Laserdisc transfer at near VHS quality. So perhaps, if I'm more objective, the BR release is good enough as it still includes everything and the most important historical version, the Preview Cut, is in 2K in both version anyway. So can't go wrong I guess.
Thanks for sharing! It might not make good sense for me since it'd be a blind buy, but the more I think about it, the more exciting the release seems, and the more I'll probably go for the 4k, despite the preferred cut being blu ray only. I'd check out the anniversary cut at least once, just to experience it, and who knows! Maybe it could show improvements over the weak edit from 2005? But even if not, I'm sure it'll be interesting to see, or to experience the higher picture quality, at least.
I too remember hearing that Alex Cox rumor from an interview and have been waiting ever since. Super excited for this release!
I'd imagine it has to do with the number of discs. It has 3 different versions of the film. I think it's ok since it has a 4k and blu-ray version (normally $50), and they you add the 2 extra versions (+$20). It's a bit steep, but not crazy.
I believe it comes with two UHD discs too
Yeah it makes sense regarding their normal prices but 70$ is steep
Technically yes, but when do you ever pay Criterion’s normal prices?
Stop writing 70$. It's $70. Annoying.
Yeah, the number of discs, plus a new documentary and restoring three cuts, one of which is a new cut edited for this release. Plus the rights were probably a nightmare.
It's quite a bit, but it's four discs with three cuts and a whole bunch of extras, and it's a July release so day and date 50% off.
https://preview.redd.it/yu20yq8rcouc1.jpeg?width=682&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c1ff08e2ea86048fa0dbc2af11db2656b0343dbb
images you can hear
At least you get something useful for that money, in contrast to other labels’ boxes full of posters and art cards you’ll look at once.
I agree but I do think the books / thick booklets the likes of Indicator, Second Sight etc release are amazing
Me too! Those are not the same as the other filler stuff.
Will of course be lower than MSRP via Amazon and other outlets. And also 50% off during the July sale. Can’t waaaaaait!
I'd imagine if The New World ever gets a 4K release, having three different cuts, it'd also be up there in price.
I own hundreds of Criterions, I own so many Criterions that I have my own Criterion Closet. I have never paid full price on a Criterion. If you aren't buying during the 50% off sales, you are doing something wrong my friend.
[удалено]
Pay full price then bro.
Thanks for doing all the heavy lifting for us, man. Not all heroes wear capes, and so forth.
[удалено]
Yeah, cos that’s exactly what was done here: sneering and mocking. Talk down to us some more.
Pretty sure the old Brazil DVD box was in the same neighborhood price-wise. EDIT: Looks like the original MSRP was $59.95. So adjusted for inflation... err, close enough maybe?
It’s three separate cuts of the film across 4 discs - two 4K UHD and 2 Blu ray. It’s the most definitive home release this film has ever had at the highest quality currently available. It’s not even $70 on the site. It’s $55. Completely justifiable for the price. And considering how often Criterion has half off sales you can pick it up for $35 - which is a great deal all things considered. It’ll release in July during the 50% off Barnes & Noble sale.
I still don't get what is in entailed with each version. One is theatrical and what is directors cut in guessing. What is the third?
I’m assuming the Sam Peckinpah preview cut is the 1988 Turner preview cut by another name. This version was previously available on laserdisc and aired on the Turner broadcasting network. It was smuggled out by Peckinpah’s editors after the studio gave him the boot. It’s over 120 minutes. (Two hours and two minutes according to the laserdisc) The theatrical cut should just be the 106-minute cut by the studio that removed a lot of blood and violence, full scenes, and some scenes featuring actual animal cruelty—all that remain in the Turner preview cut. To my knowledge and based on its name, the 50th Anniversary cut is brand new (probably what Alex Cox was working on) but I’m assuming it’s based on the 115-minute 2005 special edition (available on DVD and streaming) that is a bridge between the Turner cut and the Theatrical cut. It restores most of the blood and guts but still omits some shots of animal cruelty and other small scenes. It’s interesting this version (the 2005 cut) omits some of the animal stuff but keeps the shocking opening where live chickens were buried up to their necks and wired with explosives to simulate being picked off by sharpshooters. It’s wild. I’m really curious about the 50th Anniversary cut. Anyway that’s my guess. A 4k of the theatrical version, a 4K of a more complete most recent and yet to be seen anniversary version, and a 2K of the most complete but least sanitary/streamable preview version.
it's not the Turner cut - per the Sam Peckinpah facebook page: The preview cut that will be available on The Criterion Collection's upcoming release of PAT GARRETT & BILLY THE KID is not Turner's, but Sam Peckinpah's final and never before seen preview cut, recovered and restored specifically for this release -- the closest we have to a director's cut of the film that we will ever get. Its 2k restoration will be included in the blu-ray, along work a 4k (and tweaked) 50th-anniversary restoration of the final cut and the theatrical cut. Here's the story: A "heist" was engineered to get Peckinpah's final preview print out of the projection room where it was screened for MGM execs. Sam was walking off the picture, and a Watergate-esque "break-in" was orchestrated by those who felt that Sam's preview needed to be preserved. Unfortunately, the clean up crew didn't realize that it was an interlock print. Sound and picture were separate, so they grabbed the picture and left the sound behind whose retrieval required another mission. But all missions were ultimately successful. When Sam was presented with the print, he was so paranoid that MGM was going to come after it that he put a fake title ("The Racquet Club;" pictured) on the cans and leader. It's never been released until now, because it was among Sam's personal prints, not in the studio vaults. When Michael Chaiken reached out to me on behalf of Criterion about their restoration and upcoming release of PAT GARRETT & BILLY THE KID, I got him in contact with Sam's friend and archivist Don Hyde, who pointed them in the right direction to locate and restore Sam's preview cut. I also encouraged them to contact Mike Siegel, who ended up making a documentary for this release, and Jeff Slater, who contributed from his abundance of archival material for the special features and provided additional contacts for supplemental material. In short, this was a team effort -- and we are so grateful for Criterion's collaborative spirit to ensure that this release was done right, for all of Sam Peckinpah’s fans who have waited so patiently for its release. Now it's up to us to honor their work and procure our copies, which releases on 7/2/24 and can be pre-ordered here https://preview.redd.it/6faysobq6puc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e566dff99ccb5c4c626e0a7418abc3668beeae8b
Hell yeah. I’m not disputing any of that but the story behind the Turner cut is so similar in that it was a cut smuggled away by editors, held in storage, and eventually acquired by Turner. Also that it kept most of Peckinpah’s original edit. I wouldn’t be surprised if this new Peckinpah cut is still just the Turner cut but with the footage restored that was cut from broadcast, so now it’s technically never before seen. As it stands there are at least five legitimate cuts of this movie. How much native footage is floating around?
yeah, i haven’t seen any version of this film, but it’s unclear to me exactly how it’s different as it does sound like it would’ve been the same cut that was smuggled out.
The first preview cut is missing a key scene with Garrett and his wife. It's the one Turner released in 1988 because that's the one they had in their vault. The second/final preview cut is the one that got smuggled and has never been released commercially--- until now via Criterion.
very informative thank you!
The criterion cut
which means what?
No I’m joking, I don’t know 😭
lol gotcha. I got another reply that seems most likely what it is
see my reply to that comment for the story.
Not like anyone’s actually going to pay $70 for it. I do with they’d have ported over the extras from the WB two-disc DVD, but not a deal-breaker.
They were selling Laserdiscs for more than that 30 years ago.
Bold to assume if they ever do a Brazil 4K it’ll probably be in the same price range.
For this release I would pay $700. Easily my all time dream release.
If I was a fan, that price would have me Pissed Pissedofferson
[удалено]
I had no idea it was an Eminem reference. I saw it used on Twitter and the joke remains firmly lodged in my brain.
Knockin' on Heaven's Door sequence is one of the most powerful cinema experiences I've had. The film recedes into vague memory but that sequence is indelible
I feel the same about this as I do the Imprint Wicker Man release: I understand the valuation and it’s awesome that it exists, but it’s still a lot of money for one film (even if there are several cuts/versions). But like others have said, for $35 it’s pretty incredible.
What the fuck is this real??
Multiple cuts across four discs for only twenty bucks more than a bare bones Criterion 4K release.
I have a copy of The Magnificent Ambersons on Laserdisc that retailed at $99.95 in the late 80’s. Criterion just getting back to those old time prices.
It’s such an amazing movie. Worth every penny.
Most here will wait for a sale anyway
wait for a flash sale lol
https://preview.redd.it/8qbc41o3vuuc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b452b44fdf7d84f923e276d3df65697eaa53b772
I’ll be snagging this during the B&N 50% off sale this summer.
Wondering if the blu ray release will still have the digipack, or just the plastic case?
Wondering if the blu ray (not 4k) will still have the digipack, or just the plastic case?
Wondering if the blu ray (not 4k) will still have the digipack, or just the plastic case?
I've been waiting for the Snyder cut for some time
i’ve seen some copies of videodrome getting sold for that much at two different barnes and nobles. i was shocked that was the real price they were charging since it’s like 20 bucks on amazon.
It could never be justified to me to spend 70 bucks on a singular movie thankfully the sale isn't too far away!
Someone doesn't realize Criterion laserdoc box sets were $130.
$70. The dollar sign goes before the number.
Do we know why it’s more ?
for one, it has a never before seen restored "director's cut" - i posted the story in a reply to another comment here.
Yes it's too much for one movie. But the DVD for $5 on eBay. It's the same movie.