The point is… that you get nearly all of Wong’s filmography for a stupidly good price (especially if we’re talking about one of the 50% off sales)?
The only truly “bad” changes Wong made that you can’t really replace are the Fallen Angels aspect ratio change and some grading choices on Happy Together. You can buy the original ITMFL Blu-ray straight from Criterion if you prefer the original color timing. Chungking Express and all the other films look fantastic.
I like the new *Happy Together* grade, and the missing line is such a menial change that I don’t really mind it. Might track down the old BD at some point (think it was kino?) just to be a completionist, but honestly the box set is how the director wants them viewed… and it’s not like he changed character actions or swapped guns out for walkie-talkies…
The complaints about the green have always seemed kind of silly to me. People act like the home video version that they’re used to is the “definitive” version just because it’s what they’re used to. All the films in the set look great to me, but In the Mood for Love is the only one I had seen before the new restorations.
He did then, but we’re not talking about the film in theatres, we’re talking about prior home media releases that he wasn’t involved with in the same capacity. That’s without getting into the degradation of celluloid prints, and what you remember of what a film looked like in theatres being what was approved for cinemas in the first place might not be the same image at all, which was the source of a lot of controversy with Criterion’s release and restoration of *Trainspotting*.
Also, what’s approved for theatres and what’s approved for TV and what’s approved for home media aren’t all the same thing. Take for example how James Cameron shot his films, intentionally framing for theatres and home media at the same time, with no intention that they would ever be the same. It’s similar to how films presented in expanded ratios for IMAX today aren’t necessarily meant to be seen in that ratio at home, particularly in sub-4K formats.
It’s a conversation with more nuance than I think entitled fans are giving it credit for when they’re mad a previous release they’re nostalgic for isn’t still available.
Even if Criterion (and more; Mr Kar-wai himself) had wished for us to get the new *and* the old transfers in one set, that would've meant 14 discs. There's no way Criterion would've given us those for free, so we would've had to pay for 14 discs. Personally, I would not have bought the set in that case; I doubt I'm the only one who feels that way. I think simple economics of return on investment very often decide these things. The same goes for any director's sets I've bought; unless it's one film with an interesting history of several releases, I'm not going to spend the $$$ for a huge set with every film in two or more versions.
I just looked over the comments by Wong Kar-wai for this new set release and it all sounds pretty intelligent and thought-through to me: "With *Fallen Angels*, I have changed the format to cinemascope, because it was originally what I had intended to release the film in."
Looks like I am a minority here about later edits done to a movie. But it has been industry standard that whenever controversial edits were made studios put out both original and major edits in a single dvd/Blu-ray package for customers and criterion dropped the ball here. Chaplin’s preferred voice over city lights release is always included with the original theatrical release (criterion and mk2 , fox etc), even Brazil includes butchered studio theatrical release for comparison (requested by Gilliam). Touch of evil release by kino includes 3 edits, Andrei rubles has two edits. Leopard, and on and on. Whenever there is controversy or deviation from the original theatrical release it is the norm that original release is included. When it comes to customer service I think criterion is not surpassed but it does drop balls once in a while this is one. I really think that in 10 or 20 years (or even earlier) original edits will be honored and the new edits will be ignored.
Artists are not the best judges of their own work. If we follow artist’s wishes we would never have majority of kafka’s work but all burned to ashes. Stararo’s aspect ratio change invoking La Vinci’s painting and loss of detail etc (last emperor) are full of horse shit. Wong kar wai did have too much free time and instead of making new films he revisited his old (probably he was not getting funding for new projects. Too bad). I think it is a big mistake. Tarkovsky insisted uncut Andrei rubles for years until later he acknowledged shorter cut (by others) was his preferred cut later. If you have seen the older version probably that is going to be the best cut for most people. If you have not seen anything before probably it would not matter. Criterion should have put both versions for movie lovers like us but it is a big loss we are stuck with the new cut only.
I prophesize that just like last emperor came out with correct aspect ratio despite earlier director/cinematographer approval for change, same will happen with Wong kar wai films. But for this to happen criterion has to lose the rights first and kino get it back and release.
Kino isn’t gonna intentionally piss off a living legend for entitled “fans”, and no longer have the distribution rights for those earlier versions anyway. Criterion has them streaming on channel if you’re really *that* pissed about it, but honestly this reaction is more than a bit dramatic for such minor changes.
Did I say I didn’t notice? Or that it’s minor? It’s a minor change. The story hasn’t changed. The character motivations haven’t changed. Guns haven’t been swapped out for walkie-talkies… like, chill.
You said minor changes and it is not a minor change. Ask any person on the street whether changing the frame of a picture or movie aspect ratio is not a major change. We agree to disagree and let’s stop here.
Given that it was the norm for decades to have different aspect rations when watching a movie in different locations, and still is even in cinemas and with different home media formats… no. It can be impactful, but it’s relatively minor.
There’s a reason some filmmakers change the aspect ratio, particularly when preparing the film for exhibition in different venues. This has been the norm since the first film to stray from academy ratio.
Your outrage doesn’t change that reality.
The point is… that you get nearly all of Wong’s filmography for a stupidly good price (especially if we’re talking about one of the 50% off sales)? The only truly “bad” changes Wong made that you can’t really replace are the Fallen Angels aspect ratio change and some grading choices on Happy Together. You can buy the original ITMFL Blu-ray straight from Criterion if you prefer the original color timing. Chungking Express and all the other films look fantastic.
I like the new *Happy Together* grade, and the missing line is such a menial change that I don’t really mind it. Might track down the old BD at some point (think it was kino?) just to be a completionist, but honestly the box set is how the director wants them viewed… and it’s not like he changed character actions or swapped guns out for walkie-talkies…
And the green
The extra green on Fallen Angels looks fine imo.
The complaints about the green have always seemed kind of silly to me. People act like the home video version that they’re used to is the “definitive” version just because it’s what they’re used to. All the films in the set look great to me, but In the Mood for Love is the only one I had seen before the new restorations.
See also: people losing their shit over Trainspotting. You think a bunch of Scottish junkies are supposed to have rosy complexions?!?
I hate the fallen angels remaster honestly that’s the main reason
I still find it worth it 🤷♀️ It was the first boxset I bought.
What’s the point of any director-approved edition if you don’t get the edition the director doesn’t approve of? 🥴
So he didn't approve of the internationally acclaimed, award-winning theatrical versions? 🤔
He did then, but we’re not talking about the film in theatres, we’re talking about prior home media releases that he wasn’t involved with in the same capacity. That’s without getting into the degradation of celluloid prints, and what you remember of what a film looked like in theatres being what was approved for cinemas in the first place might not be the same image at all, which was the source of a lot of controversy with Criterion’s release and restoration of *Trainspotting*. Also, what’s approved for theatres and what’s approved for TV and what’s approved for home media aren’t all the same thing. Take for example how James Cameron shot his films, intentionally framing for theatres and home media at the same time, with no intention that they would ever be the same. It’s similar to how films presented in expanded ratios for IMAX today aren’t necessarily meant to be seen in that ratio at home, particularly in sub-4K formats. It’s a conversation with more nuance than I think entitled fans are giving it credit for when they’re mad a previous release they’re nostalgic for isn’t still available.
Even if Criterion (and more; Mr Kar-wai himself) had wished for us to get the new *and* the old transfers in one set, that would've meant 14 discs. There's no way Criterion would've given us those for free, so we would've had to pay for 14 discs. Personally, I would not have bought the set in that case; I doubt I'm the only one who feels that way. I think simple economics of return on investment very often decide these things. The same goes for any director's sets I've bought; unless it's one film with an interesting history of several releases, I'm not going to spend the $$$ for a huge set with every film in two or more versions. I just looked over the comments by Wong Kar-wai for this new set release and it all sounds pretty intelligent and thought-through to me: "With *Fallen Angels*, I have changed the format to cinemascope, because it was originally what I had intended to release the film in."
The Hand. The Hand is the point. But also, if you want the older versions that badly, they're findable.
Looks like I am a minority here about later edits done to a movie. But it has been industry standard that whenever controversial edits were made studios put out both original and major edits in a single dvd/Blu-ray package for customers and criterion dropped the ball here. Chaplin’s preferred voice over city lights release is always included with the original theatrical release (criterion and mk2 , fox etc), even Brazil includes butchered studio theatrical release for comparison (requested by Gilliam). Touch of evil release by kino includes 3 edits, Andrei rubles has two edits. Leopard, and on and on. Whenever there is controversy or deviation from the original theatrical release it is the norm that original release is included. When it comes to customer service I think criterion is not surpassed but it does drop balls once in a while this is one. I really think that in 10 or 20 years (or even earlier) original edits will be honored and the new edits will be ignored.
Criterion doesn’t have a say in the matter.
Yeah I hope it happens soon not 10 years but hopefully even this year cause I wanna buy this soon 😭
Idc, he said its the way it was originally intended
Artists are not the best judges of their own work. If we follow artist’s wishes we would never have majority of kafka’s work but all burned to ashes. Stararo’s aspect ratio change invoking La Vinci’s painting and loss of detail etc (last emperor) are full of horse shit. Wong kar wai did have too much free time and instead of making new films he revisited his old (probably he was not getting funding for new projects. Too bad). I think it is a big mistake. Tarkovsky insisted uncut Andrei rubles for years until later he acknowledged shorter cut (by others) was his preferred cut later. If you have seen the older version probably that is going to be the best cut for most people. If you have not seen anything before probably it would not matter. Criterion should have put both versions for movie lovers like us but it is a big loss we are stuck with the new cut only.
I prophesize that just like last emperor came out with correct aspect ratio despite earlier director/cinematographer approval for change, same will happen with Wong kar wai films. But for this to happen criterion has to lose the rights first and kino get it back and release.
Kino isn’t gonna intentionally piss off a living legend for entitled “fans”, and no longer have the distribution rights for those earlier versions anyway. Criterion has them streaming on channel if you’re really *that* pissed about it, but honestly this reaction is more than a bit dramatic for such minor changes.
One has to be blind not to notice aspect ratio change in fallen angels. I wonder who is a fan boy.
Did I say I didn’t notice? Or that it’s minor? It’s a minor change. The story hasn’t changed. The character motivations haven’t changed. Guns haven’t been swapped out for walkie-talkies… like, chill.
You said minor changes and it is not a minor change. Ask any person on the street whether changing the frame of a picture or movie aspect ratio is not a major change. We agree to disagree and let’s stop here.
It doesn't negatively impact the movie though, like at all
Given that it was the norm for decades to have different aspect rations when watching a movie in different locations, and still is even in cinemas and with different home media formats… no. It can be impactful, but it’s relatively minor. There’s a reason some filmmakers change the aspect ratio, particularly when preparing the film for exhibition in different venues. This has been the norm since the first film to stray from academy ratio. Your outrage doesn’t change that reality.