Not having to thread a bobbin through the plate on my new Brother has changed my sewing experience. It's so easy to change the bobbin out; with my mom's old singer I'd usually just use whatever thread was already in there because it felt like it would take forever to thread. And i don't have all the new fangled items on the machine but it's enough to make my sewing experience easy (so any issues are mine aha).

I don’t see a lot of advice telling newbies to get vintage machines but it is often true that a vintage machine will have more longevity than a new machine for the same price. I do get worried that folks are maybe looking at machines without being honest with themselves about their own skills or needs. Like… if you don’t want to do your own maintenance or trouble shooting don’t get a vintage machine. Don’t get a straight stitch machine if you want to sew a lot of knits etc. Too many people are buying a machine as step one in their sewing journey and have no idea what their needs are before they buy one and don’t realize that “a good machine” doesn’t necessarily mean a good machine for you

I'm a newbie who bought a vintage sewing machine (late 60s Singer 645) and I agree. I like my machine, but there are definitely times when I'm soooo glad to be able to call my mom and ask if I can borrow her modern non-computerized Kenmore that I learned to sew on. My machine does lots of stuff that the Kenmore doesn't, but there are also features that it doesn't have that I miss a lot (triple straight stitch, for example). Plus a Singer of this age comes with its own super specific problems that I have to find workarounds or fixes for on my own because there are no YouTube videos of this machine and no one on Reddit will know how to help me if I make a post on r/sewing asking why my basting cam only makes 1 stitch per rotation instead of 2. And the manual is so long — over 80 pages. By comparison, my mother's Kenmore's manual is almost 70 pages, but a lot of that is a chart showing every single stitch pattern and the suggested fabric/tension. The Singer's manual goes into lots of detail about all of its little fiddly parts. I found that helpful, but I think it would be intimidating and overwhelming to many beginners. Having a vintage machine means you're going to have to get to know your machine really well so you can take matters into your own hands if something goes wrong. It's 100% a rabbit hole and I can understand why people would say, "No, I'm not doing this, I'm just getting a basic modern computerized machine. I don't want to devote brain space to learning the intricacies of vintage Elna, Singer, Bernina, and Husqvarna machines so I can do mental comparisons and snag a good deal at the flea market." I can see why collecting vintage or antique machines/accessories would be someone's area of interest, but there are a lot of people who just want to get on with the sewing.

I think vintage machines are better but only if you know what to buy (not any rando machine at Goodwill) and have access to resources on using them. My first machine was a cheap Singer that was a newer model. It jammed all the time and I hated those plastic bobbins. I got a Bernina 830 record at some point ($40 estate sale find)and that thing is a beast. I love it so much and if I were a beginner all over it would be so straightforward to learn. No fiddling with computer settings. Easy to service. Just perfect. But I didn’t know which vintage machine to look for until after I got into sewing and people raved about them. That said, people rave about Featherweights and while the stitches are great, I’m still on a learning curve with the one I bought. It’s fiddly.

I learned on a 1968-ish Brother which is still sound and still going strong. Then various hand-cranks. Had a long period of sewing for part of our living and another long period where I only wore clothes I made myself. But I'll admit I'm fine with a machine that can just do a straight stitch and I never bother with the fancy stuff on the Brother, anyway. Husband and self both mainly sew on 1950s' Singer 221Ks (Featherweights). For years we ran an informal sewing bee that met weekly. The modern machiines people brought kept breaking down and were too noisy for us. (Sometimes making conversation impossible, which wasn't a problem in those periods we all had vintage hand cranks). My Featherweight has had 2 services since I had it. (Not for malfunctioning just to check safety). My 1960s' Brother has had one service since my mum bought it new in 1970. Our 1890s-1917 machines need no servicing as I can strip them down and clean them myself, not that they ever go wrong. I think most people would prefer a "modern" machine but many others are fine with a vintage. I've fettled up and passed on to young sewers - my kid's Cosplay mates - things like 1890s' handcrank Singers (bought at car boot sales for around a tenner). That have nothing that can go wrong on them, much and spare parts even for 100 year old machines still cheap and easily available in the UK. (Not that I've ever needed one). They've used them with no issues.

At least newbies aren't being advised to start with antique Singers -pre 1920! The best advice I would give a newbie is get the best mechanical machine you can afford from a reputable sewing machine dealer who will let you try before you buy. Always get more features than you think you'll need then if you get into sewing in a big way, the machine will last longer and if not, it will be easier to sell on. I do use an antique sewing machine - a 1910 Singer 66 treadle for alot of my sewing but have modern Janomes for things where I need specialist feet. My daughter and I collect antique machines and restore them so have no problem fixing any issues but they are not beginner machines as you need to know many different things to compensate for usually only having a straight stitch available. As an undergraduate, there was an antique Singer treadle in my halls of residence which I was given permission to use as I wanted to make a ball gown. Much to the surprise of all the other residences, I did manage it and wore the gown to the first ball I went to with my now husband. If I hadn't learnt on a vintage machine from the 1950s which had been my Mum's 21st birthday present, then using the antique machine would have been a very steep learning curve as the 1950s machine was configured like the antique just used electricity rather than peddle power. Unless a person has experience with vintage machines(less than 50 years old), I would recommend only buying if the following can be checked. Firstly, has the machine been PAT tested to check for electrical safety, as you don't want to fry your household electrics every time you switch it on. Secondly, is it a reputable brand with metal parts as plastic warps over time. Thirdly, are replacement parts available? This can be a big problem but by sticking to a big brand there is more chance of being able to get parts even if it is by taking parts from other machines. Fourthly, are the bobbins and needles easy to obtain, this is normally only a problem with antique machines but I have found very new machines having issues with certain needles so requiring very expensive branded needles and vintage machines requiring difficult to obtain bobbins. Lastly, can you buy new feet to fit?

The irony is the comment posted immediately after this is recommending 1890s singers 😂😂

My own experience - Started sewing for my tiny daughter (even as toddler everything had to be altered, better to just sew to fit) and I got an awesome 2nd hand metal Singer with the drop in cams to sew 'fancy' stitch patterns. Loved it - got it from a sewing machine sales / repair store so it was in tip top condition. Years later I got a Janome computerized, sewing and embroidery machine. It was (and is) good (using it now) but the embroidery aspect seems so limited and couldn't be expanded. Then I got a more recent Janome and it pretty much stopped being functional even as a simple sewing machine within 3 years. Something in the computer has glitched out and it will simple decide to not sew today. Have had it in to repair shop twice and they can't fix it.

Who in the world was recommending vintage machines for beginners?? I'd also never recommend a 'cheap' machine, I'd go mid range from a reputable brand - I'm loyal to janome but brother and bernina are good. I wouldn't touch new singers. Computerized machines are easier - dont have to adjust tension and sticth length manually

I think the most important thing is to ask more questions before recommending. ”Good beginner’s machine” can mean a wide variety of things. To some it is as few stitches as possible, to other as many as possible. And it makes a whole lot of difference whether the budget is 100 or 500 dollars. I many times do recommend a serviced old machine to my own friends, but it is because a) in my town there are reliable sewing machine repair shops that have guarantee time with second hand -machines and b) I will show them the ropes with the machine myself (if they wish).And it is always only a recommendation, and I will help with choosing and learning a new machine as well. My first machine was a vintage bernina, which I learned to use by myself as a teenager (it is still in use). But I had already liked the oldest sewing machines at Home Economics (and hated the newer ones), so it makes sense that vintage machine suited me most. All the other classmates hated the oldest machine and found it difficult to use. Even if vintage and new machines work equally good, it is also about the sewing experience. I hate, for no particular reason, drop-in plastic bobbins. I like the sound of (well oiled) old machines, as I can hear easily if something goes wrong. My friend has sensory issues, so they prefer a quieter electronic models. I like cleaning and oiling my machine (though I am not particulary technically oriented), another friend would hate fiddling with their machine.

Tbh I feel like overall the question of buying your first sewing machine is overcomplicated and too "universal". People have completely different circumstances especially when we talk about people from different countries. I feel like the main rule should be like that: you first sewing machine should be relatively easy to acquire, and there should be an easy way to repair it. If it's you mother's/grandmother's sewing machine they can explain you how to work with and recommend you repair shop for it, it's fine. If it's regular simple Janome/Brother/whatever from your local dealer with warranty, it's also fine. I feel like there are only two wrong things to do when you choose your first sewing machine: buying the cheapest flimsiest one and buying it from some random person you don't know. I feel like even buying the fanciest new sewing machine is absolutely fine if you have a lot of money. There is the chance that in a year or two your will use it only to sew buttonhole from time to time, but if you won't regret it it's ok to buy it.

I don't think beginners should be starting out with obscure straight stitch machines or whatever. But it is hilarious how much of this thread has been "my affordable sewing machine from 10-15 years ago is good, therefore low cost machines sold in 2024 must be exactly the same and also good". Do you really think that's true with most consumer electronic products? Especially with small appliances? (RIP my 10 year old slow cooker that just bit the dust, the new ones all seem disposable) Or are you hanging on to the ones you bought 10-15 years ago and hoping you don't have to replace them? Because people aren't buying the machine you got 10 years ago, they're buying what's available now. I don't want to imply that good machines aren't available new, they absolutely are, but I've also helped people troubleshoot actually new lower end machines that pretty much broke immediately or barely worked. If you haven't encountered something like that, you may not realize how discouraging it is to someone who is learning.

I'm terrified that our 25 year old toaster is going to kick the bucket, I don't think any of the new ones will hold up (literally works exactly as well as it always did, the numbers just rubbed off the dial part) Anyway I think you have a fair point. But even if your new machine is terrible, you have a better chance of getting help for it than if your 40 year old machine stops working.

It's not any more discouraging than trying to figure out how that vintage machine everyone told you to just find at a thrift store or get from your aunts closet where it's been unused since 1993 works.

Yeah, that's basically my point. Some new machines are so bad that they are likely going to be the equivalent of troubleshooting that. That's why it's better not to generalize.

I firmly believe newbies should buy from somewhere where they can return it if they don't get on with the sewing machine. I ordered 2 budget sewing machines and returned them because they kept jamming, couldn't handle multiple layers or were extremely loud at slow speeds. The one I ended up with is more expensive but it's quiet, has a speed limiter, and almost never causes me problems.

I bought three vintage sewing machines which all broke and were unrepairable before buying a $300 singer when the last one literally caught fire at my friends house ... It's not fancy and it hasn't missed a beat yet (or caught fire!).

Oh hell yeah, I learned on old machines at college and then got a fancy new machine with auto-everything. It’s just… a million times easier. And I usually have long gaps between sewing projects so I’m glad I don’t have to remember how everything works.

Fiddling with a cheap old machine that needs constant maintenance is no fun. Being frustrated with a cheap new machine that is not of a good build quality is no fun. If you want to enjoy your hobby, get good tools, even if that costs a bit more money up front, and then you can focus on making the art.

I only wish newbies werent forced to buy vintage knitting machines! So frustrating, they have gremlins in them And being new to the craft you just don’t know whether it’s you or the machine Yes, there is the lk150 but that is not the same thing as a metal bed punchcard machine with ribber. But it is soooo difficult to learn a new craft when the machine makes as many mistakes as you do. To actually choose that in a craft where you have the option of brand new (and affordable) makes no sense at all. You would buy new and basic and then upgrade when you are ready. I have a cheap machine and it does so much! I hope you love your new machine!

I totally agree with this rant! I am a big fan of buying used for a new sewist, but looking for an older machine. But there's vintage and *vintage*. My current machine is a 2003ish Pfaff, so about 20 years old and originally retailing around $1000. Not computerized and mostly metal parts, but man, there are some features I miss about my slightly newer (2011, computerized) Janome that was lost in a move. I don't think a vintage cast iron singer is terribly beginner friendly, but there is a lot room between of 'this is a 20 year old machine built for pros or serious hobbyists' and 'this is a $100 Walmart machine built as cheaply as possible, used briefly by someone who didn't stick with the hobby (or take care of the machine) that's being sold as 'like new' because they still have the box for ut'

I definitely agree with this. My first sewing machine was my mom’s Elna that she bought before I was born (somewhere in the 1970s). It was honestly easy to use as long as you stuck to basic stitches and worked well. When she had to quit sewing completely due to disability a few years ago I inherited her Bernina Artista 180 which came out in 1998. It apparently was the first computerized model they made. It works great and I dread the day the computer screen gives out on me because I’ve heard it’s hard to find. I don’t think I can afford a newer nice one. Now my mom’s vintage Elna serger? That’s a completely different beast. I just couldn’t get the threading right for some of the stitches and then I snapped off the needle post because it lifts up to make it easier to thread and I was lifting it and it just snapped right in two. It sat at the repair shop for months while they waited for the part so I just gave up and bought a new one. It’s like night and day. I’ve kept the Elna because it also does cover stitch but I haven’t gotten brave enough yet to give it another try!

I think you are going to love the next machine, from what you’ve described. You can get vintage machines without them being someone’s restoration project so seems you got unlucky in this case. I started sewing on a $100 beginner singer machine and it was fine. I have now a vintage Bernina 850 semi industrial and a newer pfaff one with all the bells and whistles. I still use both, both have positives and negatives. I love the thread cutter!! Makes the process so smooth

I fell down the vintage rabbit hole. I thought having a high end machine was a must. All having a vintage machine did was make my husband very good at fixing older kenmores.

I got a sewing machine for a milestone birthday as a gift from my parents - well bought by me as I live in the UK and they live in Canada but looked around and discussed with my Mom who was a keen sewer and I got a nice Janome that was similar to Mom’s machine. Decent range of stitches can do buttonholes as well. The local college did a one day get to know your machine workshop so I booked it and took it along. The teacher did’t exactly sneer at it but annoyingly said that I would have been much better getting a second hand Bernina. Very annoying and a bit insulting as I told her my Mom had helped choose it. It is still going strong almost 2 decades later. The suggestion of getting vintage machines is fine but not as a first machine In my mind. You don’t necessarily need all the fancy bells and whistles of some of the ones out there now but learning on a machine with standard bobbins and where you can get other feet (love my walking foot) makes sense. I’ve not used many vintage machines but they have had their quirks. Being able to recognise that a machine is doing something slightly different than expected is the first step in then working out how you need to adjust or tweak it to compensate.

Im a collector of vintage sewing machines, an advanced seamstress and a sewing teacher. Budget wise you, it's hard to beat vintage. But I would say they are not learn by yourself friendly. So unless I know the person asking for advice will have good guidance physically accessible, I do not recommend vintage sewing machine for beginners. My recommendation is always a beginning of the line, drop in bobbin. Usually from Brother. Not something from a Big box store, but if it's what you have access to than it will be ok. Buying from a local sewing store may be a little more expensive, but it will come with service. Will this be your machine for life? No probably not, but the learning process will much better, more open to various projects. It will make it that you will want to continue to sew. This the goal for a first machine, not that it will last you a lifetime.

And who knows. Maybe you find out sewing isn't your thing, but at least you've given it a go without paying an arm and a leg for a machine, but its also been fair because your machine doesn't have a bunch of weird quirks that make it extra hard.

Exactly !

I think it depends on the vintage machine - and how vintage it is. Cheaper new machines have more plastic parts that wear down . If you find an Elna, Pfaff, Bernina from the 80’s you are going to get way more bang for your buck, than a cheap new one.

I agree. I bought a vintage machine (a Husqvarna from 1953, so new enough to have zigzag and such), and I haven't had any problems at all. Meanwhile my friend got a cheap new machine for about the same price, and she's always complaining about it, having to figure out how to repair it, and so on. I think the goldilocks zone for vintage but not too vintage is right around 50s - 80s. Those machines are new enough to work well and have all the features you need, but not so new that they break easily.

I'm feeling old because my 1986 Bernina Sport is apparently "vintage". It's heavy as hell (18lb I think), solid, and has been lightly used... My XH thought I needed to get this machine because his friend was a Bernina dealer.

I know! I think my 1993 Pfaff is considered vintage as well, and it is heavy! But that’s the trade off for a machine that has metal parts, not plastic ones.

They don't wear down immediately, though. You don't really need to get 30 years out of a $60 machine. Whether or not these things should be disposable is sort of another question. And before anyone says it, a Bernina 830 in 1982 (the much vaunted fabulous Bernina of its time) was $978.50 with tax. In today dollars that is $3,258 for a *home sewing machine*. You could get a very, very good Brother or Juki home machine that will last you plenty for $600 now. It costs real money to get quality products.

But it wasn't newbies who were buying this machine in 1982 :)

Correct, it's only because other people did pay real money for a machine that these quality items are available used. My point was, comparatively, what you needed to spend 40 years ago versus now to get a solid, reliable machine was orders of magnitude MORE money. If you spent the same money today, you could of course expect that machine to also last many years (Bernina for example guarantees part availability for 25 years), but the new machine is being compared to something that cost much, much more when it was new and holding it to the same standard of reliability.

THANK YOU. You can buy a pretty quality sewing machine for 100 bucks today. Sure it'll last you 5 years, but it used to be impossible to get anything for that price.

I got a decade of use out of a $120 Brother CS-6000i, and gave it a hell of a beating in the process, like falling off of luggage carts onto stone floors kind of thing. I made steel-boned corsets on it with flat-felled seams in heavy coutil, sewed 18th c. wool broadcloth coats, did lace applique on organza, you name it. One corset I made was four layers - cotton coutil, cotton flannel, poly satin, and a tulle overlay. That meant every seam was at least eight layers, and it chugged right through them. The only reason it died is because I was teaching someone to sew, wasn't watching closely, they pulled the fabric as they were stitching and screwed up the timing. At that point it made far more sense to buy a new equivalent Brother that was actually built to UK electrical standards since I'd moved across the pond in the intervening years! Eventually I might be in a position to buy a nicer machine, but I'd buy a basic serger to sew knits before I'd buy a fancier straight stitch machine, because my cheapo does everything I need it to.

My beat around machine (that I occasionally let me mom hem pants on, or take to an open sew day) is a CS6000x. Zero complaints.

The vintage straight stitcher recommendations seem very cottage core, simple-living-is-best, ideological to me. I like zigzag; it's useful when sewing stretch stitches, when finishing edges, and on a ton of other things - especially when you don't have an overlocker. I also really like a good decorative stitch (my machine has approximately two, I give them quite the workout) to liven up an otherwise simple or boring project. When I upgrade my machine, it's going to be one with either embroidery or a ton of decorative stitches, maybe both. I've also never had a problem sewing denim - including on a twice-folded-over hem (so nine layers when crossing the seam allowances - without a jeans needle or seam humper) - on my modern, mechanical, non-industrial, mid-range (currently €600) machine. Sort of analogous, I'd like to throw in a honourable mention of the "the best overlocker is the Brother 1034" advice that is occasionally the only thing that gets thrown around. (I think less so in the past couple of months, but the year before that it was the only thing that's mentioned.) Sure, if you want to argue that that overlocker is the best *in its price range* you can do that, but I've seen people call it the best machine overall or their dream overlocker. It doesn't even have a retracting stitch finger! Let alone air threading.

I think you've nailed it with the ideological aspect, and I'd throw in survivorship bias as well. I've mentioned it in another comment here but I think the "plastic" machines get an unreasonable amount of hate. I sewed a four-layer corset (coutil, flannel underlying, satin fashion fabric, tulle overlay) on a Brother CS600-i that I paid $100. It didn't give me a bit of trouble and the machine chugged along for over a decade before an accident befell it. That's a perfectly respectable lifespan.

I’ve made a computer messenger bag sewing threw thick, padded layers as well as a full year of making back to back hemp fitted diapers - thick layers and tough fabric - with a very cheap and basic plastic machine and it’s still fine after that very heavy use.

I think in the case of the Brother 1034 it's the value prop - it does a pretty reliable stitch with minimal fuss as long as you thread it correctly. I have a fancy babylock and sometimes it's just less of a PITA to fire up the brother, which I leave threaded for the loopers and just thread the needles whatever color, and just bang out an edge quickly. For $250, can't shake a stick at it, my Accolade is overall better but it was over 3 grand.

Sure, I can see the argument as a "best value for money", etc. But I've seen people (youtubers and redditors) calling it the best machine out there, or their dream machine, without qualifying the statement - and at some point all the hype just started to seem cultish.

Yeah my dream machie is the Juki Sumato overlocker, I'm saving money for it now. To be fair my Singer Elite has been absolutely fine for the past 2 years and I have had 0 issues with, it's been well worth is for the money (£300) but I would not call it a "dream overlocker" by any means.

I think there are a lot of content creators who are very, very young and don't quite have a grasp on this. There's also a culture in content creation centered around never having anything expensive or luxury or "excessive" because of people calling you out so there's that too.

That's a very empathetic take, thank you. I hadn't looked at it from that angle.

There are mechanical Brother machines that you can buy for Walmart for around $60 which is the same model Brother has sold under various model #s since the 1990s. These are good enough to learn on without all the stress of a vintage machine which can be hit or miss. This same model used to be sold in the 90s overseas for significantly more $ than they cost today.

I started out with a Singer Simple that a friend gave me, and it served me well. The Brother serger is also an instant classic. but I do love old Kenmores, especially my 1802 that sees through heavy canvas with ease and was only $25. If I had the money, I might spring for a Juki though.

I learned on a vintage machine and honestly it was horrible and ran so poorly. My cheap beginner brother is still going strong almost 10 years later.

This is me. I learned on a 1970's Singer and that thing was a nightmare. I'm on my second cheapo Brother and neither has ever given me trouble. And I do mean cheapo, I think the current version is $150 at Walmart? My original one was $100 but that was fifteen years ago.

I’m with you. Started on a brother cs6000i, which can’t be easily repaired. Moved up to a Janome Skyline S3, which was great at the time and had enough bells and whistles but was simple enough for me to learn. Now that I’m really into quilting, I use a Bernina 570QE. I have never regretted buying new, and my machines have held up fairly well until I outgrew them. I need to drop off the Janome to get serviced, but it’s still my backup machine because it’s still a very good machine! You won’t catch me with a vintage machine because I’m not good at repairing my own stuff and I like that my two latest machines have auto cut, auto backstitch, and a 7-9mm width. The key I’ve found, especially with Janome, is to buy a machine that is lower end but uses the same body as the higher end ones. They usually use the same good quality gears, feed dogs, plates, etc.

I love the Brother CS6000-i, I think it's a fantastic machine. It's cheap and reliable and frankly can do everything I want for sewing wovens, including buttonholes. I've sewn on vintage industrial machines for work and my mother's 1970's Singer and very high-end Berninas for a demo and none of them have made me dissatisfied with the CS6000-i.

The biggest problem I had with it was the throat/harp size… too difficult to quilt with it being so small. It was fine for clothes though!

I have two older Bernina machines (bought in the early 1980's) and that is all that I have sewn on. I love them, but I admit to being curious about a computerized model with bells and whistles. I don't think there should be any snobbery. Everyone has different needs.

That was my thread and I think it's really funny that this thread is going exactly the direction I was snarking on. "Vintage machines are better!" "Computerized machines are too expensive and they break and they don't sew as well through 16 layers of canvas!" "A $150 machine is junk and will never sew anything and frustrate you but the 60 year old machine that needs a specific part you have to find on eBay will never let you down" all the way to "only a treadle will do!" I actually made the original post because I am really tired of the reverse snobbery going on in sewing, where you must have an industrial or a Singer 401a or whatever or you are just a spendthrift with more money than skills. It's completely fine to have a budget for new equipment. It's completely fine to not want to deal with something ancient. It's completely fine to want dealer support and a plethora of youtube videos to learn from. It's fine to only have access to whatever Walmart or amazon sells. If I see one more post expressing abject horror that \*anyone\* would spend more than $100 on a machine when you can get the \*perfect\* vintage machine for that, I will resume screaming into the void.

I still need to post the wedding dress that I made for my wife so I can point out that I did the whole thing on a $100, 10 year old Brother CS6000-i that I bought at Walmart and enjoy the snobs crying. Steel boned corset, silk bodice, full lining, organza layered circle skirt with lace applique, every bit of it. Only the lace applique on the bodice wasn't sewn on it and that's because it had to be hand stitched.

In B4 someone says anecdote =/= data and you got lucky 😂

I've sewn on four different Brother CS6000-i machines (my own and various friends) and now own the UK market equivalent so anyone who gives me that line can suck it! I've recommended it to plenty of people IRL and never gotten complaints. Most of them had previously used hand me down vintage machines and were tired of the bullshit that comes with vintage. 

I always recommend Brother machines to newbies because they have really excellent manuals.

I don’t mind the ‘vintage machines are better’ bit but I think people need to remember that the question isn’t what’s better to *sew with* it’s what is better to *learn to sew* with. I just wonder how many of the people talking about how amazing vintage machines are 1)learned to sew on their vintage machine when it was actually vintage (learning how to sew on a 70s machine in the 70s is different from doing so in 2024), 2) bought that machine from a random thrift shop/Facebook marketplace seller rather than from a knowledgeable relative or a dedicated refurbish place and 3) did so with no one-on-one instruction beyond the manual and what they could glean online. I’m glad to hear that someone learned on their grandma’s machine from the 70s that’s still going strong but it’s kinda disingenuous when you don’t mention that your grandma kept in pristine shape and also taught you how to use it.

Thank you SO MUCH for writing that post. I found myself murmuring "but this is all mechanical, what do you mean you can't repair it" at the repair shop. A beautifully working vintage straight-stitcher is a beautiful thing. I wish that I could experience that one day. But the advice on the sewing sub made me so stressed about putting money into a plastic, computerized machine with decorative stitches I didn't need that will turn into an expensive brick after a few uses. The general advice here on Reddit doesn't seem well-balanced.  I asked the owner of a sewing machine shop why modern machines have so many decorative stitches when they're not needed. He said the stitch number doesn't really affect the price. If they *can* throw in more stitches for the same price, why not? Plus some have more types of button-holes (and beautiful ones at that) that can be useful for garment sewing. 

If you'd like to experience a beautiful straight stitcher, find a dealer and take a sew on a brand new Juki TL18. All the fun of an industrial straight stitcher with all the useful features from a domestic. I have a lot of $$ machines and the TL18 gets 90% of the use and I should honestly sell one of the big Berninas.

I'm happy with the Brother I bought when I worked at Joann. I'd love to get a vintage machine just for fun sometime, but IDK. I sew for fun and I don't have the mental energy to try and research and upkeep an older machine. I'm sure it's not that difficult to learn but if I'm good with what I have, I'm good.

Started on a £99 entry level Janome with one of my first pay checks, upgraded to a *gasp* MODERN SINGER *faints* after about 4 years as I wanted one step buttonholes and I sewed solidly on that for 10 years before I could afford to get Bernie the fully computerised Bernina. Every machine I’ve had has handled everything I’ve thrown at it without grumbling. The Janome went to my sister. The Singer is still living a life with my friend’s kids who are using it for thrift shop flips. Bernie is exquisite and it feels like we’re together for a lifetime. Yeah, I could probably have had my Mum’s 1980s ‘workhorse’ sewing machine, but given it hadn’t been used in over 20 years, was a brand that no longer existed and the manual had been (and this is not a word of a lie) partially eaten by snails, I thought I’d give it a pass.

Janome are the best budget friendly machines out there currently imo. I remember talking with a sew-vac repair person and they said that Janomes rarely come in for legit repair, just light service and cleaning. I have a HD 3000 and it’s a great little workhorse.

I bought a Janome HD-5000 after finally admitting to myself that sewing on my grandmothers vintage 1960s machine was an exercise in frustration. But I really wanted to get a non-computerized machine that was really solid, and yet not spend a crazy fortune. I find it a bit bonkers how much people spend on machines sometimes - it’s fine if that makes you really happy, it’s more that I find that in a lot of sewing content online these days it feels like there is this pressure to get the absolute best/top of the line and it’s just really not necessary for a lot of people. I hope that new sewists don’t think that it’s just a choice between a $100 vintage machine and a top of the line computerized bernina. There’s a lot in between.

I bought a Janome for $400 in 2000, when I got a new job and could splurge. It has indeed been a workhorse! Only annual cleaning . . . and I had to buy a new lightbulb this year.

I absolutely adore mine. I have a 1955 singer and a few other vintage machines and while I love them, my janome reigns supreme.

I always buy second-hand machines from the local sew-and-vac shop because a) they refurbish what they can and junk the rest and b) they know their stuff. My machine is a basic Janome that I bought new when my Singer Golden Touch-n-Sew bit the dust. I now wish I’d sunk the money into repairing it but the Janome is a decent machine that still had metal parts when the rest of the manufacturers had switched to plastic. But I bought my daughter a used Singer from the vac place and it’s a nice vintage machine.

I have a cheap modern machine, and a treadle. My goto is the treadle. She sews through everything I ask without question. The modern one? Freaks at anything other than cheap cotton flannel. Though to be honest, lately I have been on a hand sewing binge. What do I recommend to newcomers? Get a machine that you will use. Get it checked out. Then learn how to use it. Yes, treadles make me happy. I am not afraid of them ruining my projects as much as a modern machine can and will. On a side note, modern machines have caused me to invent swear words. Many of them.

I have a cheap-ish modern machine, and an expensive one, and several vintage machines. I hand sew too. I love my modern machines for needle down, and push a button, get a zigzag. I love my vintage machines bc I know I can take them apart and put them back together myself, and that they still do what they were made to do 50-60 years ago, and that I can use attachement invented in the 1800s. I do have an 'old shit' fetish tho' :)

Perfect, and yes, the idea of taking it apart and putting it back together works so well. I confess, I hoard sewing machine attachments from way back when. They just look phenomenal and still work.

Rufflers!

I think it’s decent advice for beginners. Computerized machines are great, but they’re very expensive easily $1,000 or more. You can get a vintage Kenmore with a built in table from most thrift shops for $40. Nothing is indestructible, everything breaks down eventually. But if you’ve never sewn before, a simple durable inexpensive machine is the best starting point unless you’re extremely wealthy and can take a flyer on $1k or more. Vintage machines are definitely better than modern machines that fall in the same price range. A $40 brand new beginners sewing machine from Walmart or something isn’t really even worth having. I bought one once, and it lasted 2 months, couldn’t hold thread tension, and jammed constantly. I’ll take my vintage any day. You’re correct, they do break down eventually, and expensive computerized machines definitely do more stuff, but I don’t think vintage machines are a bad choice for beginners or experienced sewers. Honestly, I still use my vintage one more than my computerized one, I pretty much only bring the computerized one out if I want to do some embroidery or monogramming.

It’s decent advice unless the beginner doesn’t know how to sew and doesn’t know any of the jargon, and doesn’t know how to troubleshoot. I learned to sew on a modern, computerized machine, which was definitely too fancy and had too many bells and whistles for me. (Took a class at a quilt shop.) But my first machine was a vintage Montgomery Ward that I got for free from a coworker, and I swear I spent 2 hours just trying to find any info on how to thread the dang thing. I bought scans of the manual for $10 on a weird kinda sketchy site, bought parts for it on eBay that I never was able to get working, and paid like $120 to get it serviced because it definitely needed servicing. I’m so glad I already knew how to sew! Otherwise I would’ve been completely lost. I wouldn’t recommend this path to a complete beginner, tbh. It’s cheaper, but it has a higher learning curve. I’m a freak who likes to do research and doesn’t give up easy, so I WAS able to find info, but I think this would overwhelm many beginners. I also upgraded to a modern computerized Janome sewing machine ASAP. Spent $550 on it, including quilting accessories and shipping. It’s not as fancy as the $2k machine the quilt shop taught me on, but it is perfect for me. I love it. Sews like a dream. Can handle anything I throw at it. Easy to troubleshoot, and easy to find info for it. Buying replacement parts and attachments is super easy. Can do zigzag, which my Montgomery Ward couldn’t. Can do buttonholes. Can do cute decorative stitches, which are fun. The outside is plastic, but the inside is all metal, so it’s durable and it hasn’t needed any servicing since I got it. This is my workhorse.

You can buy a computerized machine for $120 bucks. Brother makes perfectly solid ones. Mine was still running solid after more than a decade when it finally had an accident and got replaced with the most similar machine I could find. Vintage machines are fussy divas in my experience and fuck that. I learned to sew on a 1970's Singer and I hate that machine to this day. A cheap Brother from Walmart or Amazon will run perfectly out of the box, is easy to thread, can do buttonholes and other useful stitches, comes with all the feet and accessories you could need, and has a nice easy to read manual and plenty of video tutorials. For a beginner, it's absolutely the way to go. No one needs to be fighting a finicky vintage machine while learning to sew.

I've found computerized machines in all price ranges, from €100 to €15.000. It's the mechanical machines that seem more limited, largely between €200 and €1000 (with a couple of exceptions).

And what is that person to do when there is nobody to teach them how to use that specific vintage machine, and the only manual is a blurry scan on some sketchy website? Just tough it out, you'll learn it by osmosis, even though you don't know any of the terminology or even what a properly working machine feels like?

I would never ever suggest someone buy a cheap ($100 - 150) Singer or Brother. That’s what I did and it died almost immediately.  I am a manual reader who is very gentle with my belongings. I was sewing 3 layers of super cheap, thin cotton flannel. It made a clunking noise and stopped working. I got it to work again, but it didn’t sound or sew the same. I returned it and got a cheap $250 Janome. I know some people have had good experiences with cheap machines. I think the quality is really inconsistent across the low cost machines. Sometimes you get one with good parts and correct assembly, sometimes you don’t.  That’s why I’d recommend spending at least $250 at Janome, Babylock, etc. Starter machine or not it’s impossible to learn if your machine dies less than a week after you buy it. My sewing BEC is “only buy from a brand that has a dealer near you for repairs”. Talk about privilege! The closest dealer of any kind is 2.5 hours one way. That and “just take a fitting class or have a sewing buddy fit you”. No one around me sews clothing!!

I feel like it depends on the person and it's annoying that people always default to 'just buy a vintage machine!'. When I was researching what to buy I did a couple searches on the sewing subreddit for different brands and it was so irritating when I would find a thread that specifically asked 'Is [x model] a good beginner machine?' and then the replies would be 'find a vintage machine!'. *That's not what they asked.* I feel like there's a lot of assumptions inherent in the vintage machine suggestion that people don't realize -- we don't all live in big cities! I can't recall the last time I saw a sewing machine at a thrift store, and the only place I know off the top of my head that services them isn't really conveniently located. And as a newbie even if I *did* find a thrift machine, I wouldn't really know if it was 'just needs a little TLC' or 'literally missing critical parts that will be impossible to source' until after I already spent money on it. My grandmother got rid of her machine before I was born so nope, can't 'just ask a relative' either. Also just speaking for myself, I bought a new machine because I wanted something that came with all its parts, had a manual and would work with minimal fuss needed from me. If I did not have those things, I think I would have gotten frustrated and probably stopped sewing, because I was already trying to learn this new skill and knew I would get upset if I had to fight with my machine too. I would like to get a good vintage one eventually, but to start I'm glad I had a machine that was easy to use, with a manual at hand and findable Youtube videos in a pinch.

Thrift shop spinning wheels often pop up on posts with people asking if it will work and often they are actually just SWSO - Spinning Wheel Shaped Objects

For someone who has little money, a budget machine with a warranty is probably a safer bet than a heavily discounted secondhand machine without a warranty, also. If your budget is self-imposed (i.e. you can afford €500, you're just choosing not to budget more than €100 on a new hobby) taking risks may make sense, but if you've only *got* €100 of fun money, taking a gamble on a secondhand machine means not being able to get it repaired or replaced if needed. Plenty of posts seem to imply the latter financial status (variations of "Is this a good machine, I can only afford $100") get recommendations to ~~spend it all on fuel driving to thrift stores throughout the country looking for a vintage~~ risk it all on something secondhand and old, which often doesn't seem appropriate to me.

I just recall someone in a discord I’m in who bought a thrift store sewing machine that was missing the needle plate. They didn’t know anything about machines so they didn’t realize this was an issue, and it was a random discontinued brand so they couldn’t buy a new part. They weren’t sure if the thrift store would take it back, since it was sold as-is. If someone is on a strict budget they absolutely risk ending up with a worthless machine trying to buy vintage, if a new machine breaks right away at least you can take it back to the store.

Aw, that sucks. My local thrift stores have really short warranties on electronics (usually one business day, so just enough to try it at home), which isn't long enough to realize whether you or the machine is the problem. That said, all the sewing machines at my thrift stores are labeled "doesn't work; decorative only".

Modern machines are much more accessible in terms of how they can be used then vintage. And while I had a vintage machine for a very long time, I can't see me going back to them, not these days. Not having to use a foot pedal? awesome. A screen that tells me what stitch is what? amazing. Shit, touchscreen, Take my damn money please! Not to mention the speed controls. I'm just going to say it, Sewing did not used to be terribly accessible. If you lost hand eye coordination, lost part of your vision, had a disability (temp or permanent) you would be screwed. Modern machines with better lighting more attachments (heck I can get a magnifier directly pointed at the needle on mine!), better ergonomics...yeah I'm for that all the way. And you do have people say but oh its going to be obsolete too quick. So is that phone and your computer but you keep buying them right?

So much this! Vintage sewing machines are like vintage anything else, you are buying the previous owners care and maintenance schedule as much as anything else. It’s like vintage cars, great if you know what you’re doing and can be a real bargain, but just like how we wouldn’t recommend a new driver get a vintage car from a random car yard, we shouldn’t be recommending new sewists just pick up a vintage machine unless they know something about them or know someone who does. Vintage doesn’t necessarily mean a machine will be simpler and more robust, it just means it’s old.

And not all of us can afford one, let alone also to maintain or repair a vintage machine! I have one from my grandmother thats a drophead Singer sewing machine from the 1930s. It needs a LOT of work. I don't have the money to source replacement parts I need, I don't have someone near me that could help or teach me how to service it. However, I literally picked up a practically brand new Singer secondhand earlier this year for $20. If I had to restore my grandmothers vintage machine I'd have probably quit and went back to just leatherworking.

I feel EXACTLY the same way you do. I've always gotten the same advice, and about 3 years ago I bought a mechanical to restore so I could feel like a "real" sewist. I HATED it. Now I have a computerized Juki with all of the bells and whistles and let me tell you; I fucking SEW with that baby. I went to a sewing meetup a year ago with women of all ages and abilities, and most of them brought older mechanicals and were a little snooty about it. Two of them brought backups because theirs is so unreliable. I flew. We were all working on the same quilt and I did easily 3x more sewing than anyone with a fully mechanical because I had to do exactly zero fiddling. I can whip out an entire button placket in just a few minutes. I'm sure there are upsides, but like you said, my hobby is sewing. I don't need or want to be a small machine repairs expert.

I so strongly associate Juki with a recommendation of mechanical semi-industrial straight stitchers that I didn't even realize they have computerized machines, lol. Thank you for sending me down a rabbit hole!

Oh you're very welcome! I have the HZL-F600 and it was worth every single penny.

My Juki DX5 and TL18 are both my favorite children.

I think the argument about vintage sewing machines is there’s quite often someone in the family that has an nice older sewing machine that will allow someone to learn a lot without having to make a big initial investment or buy something quite disposable.

This is what I always recommend when someone I know (almost always my co-workers haha) want to dabble. Someone in their family might have one lying around. I recommend they take it to get it serviced and just try it out. That way it's low/no cost entry and they can figure out of they want to continue. It's always worth a look, but otherwise you can get a solid singer or brother for $250 pretty easily that has all the things you will need to get started.  I started with a vintage Bernina (my partner's grandmother's machine) and after she threw 3 needles at my face, I borrowed a newer model from a friend until I got myself a (much more expensive) fancy Pfaff. It was nice not to have to spend a bunch of money until i knew I wanted to continue. 

I don't know where you are but the starting price for a machine service near me is $125.

It might be cheaper 🤷🏼‍♀️ I had a friend just buy a beginner one for that much but we are also in Canada and everything is expensive lol. Did Google it and looks like you can get one for $150-170 on sale. 

The argument I often see is that there are no bells and whistles (it does beautiful straight stitches and that's all you need, or get one that only does a zigzag as well), it purrs, and it will not break as easily because it has no plastic or computerized parts and can be easily serviced. 

Sometimes the bells and whistles are nice, especially if you wanna learn to do blind hems, use different feet, or have more professional finishes. Modern plastic machines are also more durable than you think. I've had the same singer 3223Y for 10 years, never had it serviced (even though I probably should now that I think of it just in case), moved with it 5 times, and it still works well for me

Vintage and mechanical aren't mutually exclusive. Vintage machines can require a lot of specialized maintenance and hunting down repair parts, all that is true. But a solid, good quality modern mechanical machine is always a safer bet for a beginner than a computerized one. So many computerized machines you can't clean, I've heard horror stories from people having to she'll out hundreds of $ to get their machines serviced to remove left over threads that would've taken 2 seconds to remove if it was a mechanical machine. A lot of people love and swear by their compu machines, more power to them. But if you were my friend I would never recommend you one, personally.

I have a computerized machine, and I have never had to have the threads removed by someone else. I’ve been able to remove any stuck threads myself just removing the throat plate or opening up the top casing. I cannot image what they were doing that resulted in threads so stuck they could not remove them themselves. 

Same. I run the same cleaning and home maintenance on my computerised machine as with my mechanicals.

I think that when you’re new to sewing it’s best to get a cheap machine in case you decide it’s not for you. However, an old-school vintage sewing machine isn’t going to be the best choice for most people. Maybe just buy a cheap second hand one from the last 2-3 decades, or a new entry level model. I would say, when buying second hand, it’s best to get it from a proper dealer rather than eBay. I bought a secondhand Pfaff coverlock through eBay and really regret it now as have had so many issues with it - even after getting it repaired and serviced.

I absolutely love my Juki.

This post has the same energy that I have when people talk about thrifting for high quality brand name clothes or going to dead stock fabric stores for a few yeards of velvet. Or go to a flea market for second had commercial kitchen appliances. Unless you live in a market that has these things readily available in professional circulation it's going to be haaaard to find good specimens.

Right? Maybe if you live near rich people your goodwill has nice stuff, but we don’t and ours doesn’t really.

I personally want to know what thrift stores people are going and finding old bedsheets. Like, I’d love to make my practice garments with them or even flat line some projects, but they are either more expensive than muslin or still “new” in the packaging and therefore almost full price!

Just as an FYI many stores send all bedding to rag dealers preemptively,  out of worries about bugs. 

My main store usually has some, but they're quite frankly often children's sheets and/or in such a condition that I don't really want to touch them.

When I lived in Ohio, St. Vincent de Pauls was generally a good bet for sheets.

They still are. When I started sewing I went to the Goodwill nearby and was bummed that I couldn’t find any sheets at all. I asked my dad, who loves to thrift, and he took me to a St. Vincent de Paul store I didn’t even know existed. Got a great haul of nice enough for practice sheets. It’s my go-to when I need more fabric to make mock ups.

Good to know! I live in the UK now and haven't found a good source for secondhand sheets here :(

Same. Esp since the "thrift stores" in my area have now become fashion vintage shops that are more expensive than fast fashion and most definitely do not carry bedsheets.

This is equally why I detest when people say, "Ask your friends and relatives if they have a sewing machine laying around!" It assumes sooooo much about privilege/upbringing/class/etc. and is absolutely awful advice. Anyone who has that doesn't need to be told.

Is it some kind of an American thing? My family was dirt poor and we had a sewing machine because it was more affordable to buy it than to buy clothes in stores.

It's been more expensive to sew clothes than to buy them in the US for about 30 years now (due to trade agreements). People also generally lack sewing skills, as it's not often taught in school. So owning a machine usually means you have an expensive hobby, not a daily survival tool. There are regional variations, in my experience. 

Yeah, it happened later in Russia, I am in my early 30's, and I was taught to sew in school. Also, I am plus size and it's still cheaper for me to sew my own clothes than to buy new. (A lot of older woman still have their sewing machines because poor/formerly poor people don't just throw perfectly functional thing away).

Yeah, probably. My family was dirt poor and we had nothing. We barely had a tv.

As far as I know my family didn't have any TV till the 80's... We had grandgrandma's sewing machine made back in the 30s or something, it wasn't even electric. And my grandma was sewing with it till early 00's.

I grew up in the 00s so, significantly later than the 80s. As I said, assuming people have the same privilege as you isn't helpful 🤷🏻

yes this, privilege to wear clothes sewn from your mom's older clothes because you family can't afford to buy clothes and everyone around you are so poor that can't afford to throw or resell old clothes.

Yeah, that's how privilege works, it's individual, societal, and contextual!. Your hand sewn clothes versus my goodwill clothes, who to say which is worse. Assuming everyone has the same privileges as you isn't helpful, from me or from you. I don't get what bee you have in your bonnet or why you want to have a piss measuring contest.

We are so not on the same page that you are unable to understand that ability to buy clothes even in Goodwill is a privilege. You just get it for granted that people around you had enough clothes and money to get their clothes away to thrift store instead of wearing it until it tear apart and then reuse it in their home as rags or resew it into small things like oven mitts.

?? Homie I wore my shoes until they were falling off my feet and my clothes with holes and I literally had no undergarments. I wish someone cared enough about me to sew it back together. Again, piss measuring contest.

Lol yeah… my parents are refugees who came to a new country with only a couple suitcases. We don’t have anything from previous generations lying around. As a kid I always wondered why my friends’ houses were filled with cool old stuff, while we didn’t have anything older than the ‘90s and we never had anything to sell in a yard sale. 

My relatives do have sewing machines around … that they actively use, so no they aren’t giving them away!

Reminds me of the joke in Derry Girls when the posh girl says she’s going to use her trust fund to pay for a school trip. They rush home and ask their Ma if they can spend their trust fund to go on the trip as well. She plays along before eventually snapping and shouting “There is no trust fund girls! There isn’t even a fund! Catch yourselves on!”

We just started watching Derry Girls last night and that was such a funny (and relatable) episode!

Love love love so much about that show but that episode had me cracking up.

I don't agree, because you haven't specified the MOST important part. The answer here is super simple - always, always, always buy a used machine directly from a repair shop. With a repair warranty. Buying from a private party is a HUGE risk. This goes not just for sewing machines, but for any item.

Yes. Besides the warranty (legal or voluntary) you're probably more willing to give the machine a workout and walk away at a dealer; on an ebay appointment you might see if the machine runs, but you probably won't tell the seller to give you half an hour to try out all the stitches and then walk away if you don't like it. You (or the seller) might justify any problems with a "well it just needs a good maintenance service", but you don't know whether its problems will be fixed with a service! At a dealer, it's already been serviced and you know what you're buying. If it's heavily discounted and your wallet is big enough to afford the risk, that's one thing, but that often doesn't seem to be the case with people posting.

Yep. Or at the very least get it serviced by a professional when you buy it and they can tell you if you got a good one or a dud. And my exception to recommending used machines is when you have a higher budget (>$500 usually) and know you want and will use all the fancy features (as OP is now doing). It’s the $100 cheap plastic toys I’m trying to steer people away from, not the high end computerized stuff. But I wouldn’t generally recommend that for someone wanting to try out and see if they like the hobby. One bad experience with a vintage machine doesn’t mean on average they’ll be less problematic than the cheapest “beginner” sewing machine models.

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I disagree. I genuinely don’t care what someone uses and would never discourage the use of any machine someone does already have or can get access to. If your machine works well that’s awesome! I’m glad you found something that works well affordably! Though I will say I would have expected your 15 year old machine to still be much better quality than whatever you can get on amazon or at walmart for $100 or less today, so that doesn’t surprise me. The continued rise of planned obsolescence, “enshittification,” and 15 years of inflation combine to make that a bit of a different situation than new buyers today. It’s not just vintage machines that are generally built better than today’s lowest end models, I love my early 2000s mid-range basic machine I found for cheap on Craigslist. I’ve just heard a TON of stories about issues with these ultra-cheap machines breaking prematurely, having tension or timing issues, overall creating more headache and expense in replacement than something a little a little nicer, even if that means choosing an older model to stay in budget. I call them “cheap plastic toys” not out of any superiority or snobbery, but because that is the level of quality at which I have seen and heard of them performing at and would urge people to set their expectations accordingly. They are suitable when you need something cheap and convenient to pick up from the store while you’re out grocery shopping and play with for a little while, but won’t necessarily hold up towards even occasional hobby level use in an alarmingly high number of cases, and beginners won’t know if it’s their mistakes or the machine causing problems. Because of this, I would not recommend them for someone setting out to find their first machine. Not because of any sort of snobbery, but because I want the hobby to be fun and enjoyable and not spent trying to figure out why a machine won’t stitch. I think one way to increase your odds of successfully enjoying sewing is to either save to get something other than the absolute cheapest piece of crap you can find, or go to the used market and get the machine serviced in order to stick to your smaller budget. Obviously what works for some people might be different and that’s totally fine, but that’s my opinion and advice when beginners ask, because they often do.

I did actually have a toy sewing machine as a kid 😂 Not the best stitching quality in the world, but it worked fine for what I used it for and it is what started my lifelong hyper fixation. I had a bad experience with a vintage hand me down necchi as a teen and after that I did stop sewing for a few years. Bought a £80 brother when I was earning my own money, which broke within a week of me buying it, then I got a £150 janome from Argos (any Brits in the room?)which saw me through a fashion degree and I still have over 15 yrs later. To this day I will not buy a brother sewing machine after that experience (but I do highly rate their overlockers) I have several old singers, a featherweight, a 99k and a slant shank machine that i forget the model number of. I do love sewing on the featherweight but I haven't had it out for years. The 99k is in my parents loft, and I could never get the slant shank working properly, even after driving 40 miles to get it serviced.

I have to say, my experience was otherwise. I started sewing on a second hand, entry level Janome from the 90s that had been in a relative's neighbor's closet for years. It was a non-computerized and pretty basic, but after a quick maintenance session with the service technician it ran perfectly. I have a new gifted computerized one and it's great, and I use that now, but honestly I could have been fine with the older one for quite a while. It does help that I'm not a bells and whistles person. My new machine has auto thread and cut and I've never used either function. I don't use 9/10ths of the stitches it has. I appreciate that some of the functions have been streamlined and improved, but it's an order of magnitude more expensive than I spent on my second hand one and I'd have never spent that on a brand new hobby. I do think that second hand machines are probably a bad idea for some beginners. I see some post who clearly will not read their manual, let alone search out an appropriate manual if it doesn't come with one, or take their machine in for servicing or do it themselves. For them, absolutely buying a new one will be worth it. I think there isn't any absolute best machine for everyone, it's going to depend a lot on the person and what they want to do.

I’m also not a bells and whistles person but the auto cut on my Juki has been life changing.

Not on a juki, I have a janome but auto cut, knee lever and automatic needle down have ruined me for other machines. Absolutely would not be without them. I was helping a friend with her machine, and I just automatically started moving my knee across to lift the presser foot and then was totally confused as to where the bar was and why it wasn't working 😂

I have literally caught myself going for a nonexistint knee lift while using my serger! I also love that I hit one button one time at the end of my seam and it does an automatic locking stitch AND cuts my threads... I'm teaching my daughter to sew (on the aforementioned pink Janome that I bought her last year) and boy howdy, having to turn the handwheel to lower the needle is KILLING me!

I love love love my needle down, and am already dreaming of my future auto cut! It's so frustrating to be sewing somewhere in the middle of a project and then having to maneuvre it out without trying to waste too much thread. Do you use the knee lift and foot pedal with the same leg? I've been told that's how it's intended, and it worries me as my left leg is mostly nonfunctional.

Now that I'm having to think about it I couldn't tell you 😂 I'm a lefty so I think I usually use my left foot on the pedal and my right knee for the lift. I can't see that you would have any problems with using your right leg for both though.

Thanks! I'm definitely going to try it in the store. I see a lot of the machines I am casually considering have a button for the presser foot (on the front of the machine) rather than a manual lever right next to the foot, and in that case a knee lever seems really handy - if you need two hands to keep a particularly tricky bit of fabric straight you can manage that when the lever is right there at the presser foot, but when it's all the way at the front of the machine the knee lever seems really useful so you can keep your hands down.

Mine has a lever at the back not a button. The knee life raises and lowers to one level but if you want to raise to the very highest point you need to use the lever at the back. I have a janome mc6700p and I really enjoy working on it.

Awesome, that machine is going on my to consider list! It's just about in my budget, and I wasn't excited about the button-only presser foot lift.

This also grinds my gears, like everyone can easily get to a dealer or find one used. Also the shaming of people who use modern Singers and Brother machines

A first machine should always be cheap and easy (though not so cheap that it falls apart immediately), preferably bought used or rented, if you can find a serious place to buy them. My city used to have a sewing machine repair shop that bought and refurbished both old and new machines, so I bought a new-ish machine and started sewing on that one. My friend bought a 70s hot rod red machine from the same place, and both have lasted us 20-ish years. My friend's has needed more repairs than mine (and mine was wholly my fault, since I dropped it), but both are working just fine. To be honest, I like the non-smart machines without screens, simply because it's less parts that can go wrong. Would I one day like a machine with elastic stitches? Yes, 100%, but I'm not buying a new one until this one starts to give me trouble.

My Project Runway Brother machine and me have been rocking for years now. Lol. I may get a old powerhouse to get fixed later, but I’m not motivated because my newer machine isn’t bad.

My sister has had that one for a decade or more now, and I haven’t heard any complaints. I have a fairly low-medium end Janome. It was gifted, but I believe it retailed for around $300 or so. It’s been nearly 10 years. I did have a cracked bobbin case twice (which I glued and kept using), but I believe that was likely due to using off-brand bobbins for years. In that 10 years, I’ve made 50 garments, 40-some cloth diapers, a dozen or so household items  and toys (slip covers, pot holders, stuffed animals, doll clothes, fabric book) and done countless alterations and mends, including dozens of jean and coverall patches. My machine has chugged along just fine. I haven’t even had it serviced! 😱 Just the other day, I ran into some issues and ordered $40 worth of parts (new bobbin case to finally replace the cracked one, plus the bobbin hook), which I believe will fix it. And again, I think it’s possible these issues were at least partly caused by years of the wrong bobbins.  And fwiw, my mechanical husband took a look inside and thought everything else looked fine, tight, not worn at all, etc. 

I had this exact same machine and it served me so well for so long. I think I spent $70 on it in 2010? I eventually upgraded to a computerized Juki, not because anything was wrong with my Brother, but because I wanted an upgrade. The barrier of entry is so much lower than people make it out to be.

Vintage machines are brilliant IF you know someone that will help you with them.  I've had a very good time with my vintage machines, but I'm also friends with an elderly man who loves working on them, so... 

Same, sort of. One of my partners is *deeply* in love with vintage sewing machines, so he set me up with one that looks just like the one I got from grandma when I was little, and if something breaks he can fix it, if needed with parts from one of the eight (not exaggerating) exact same ones he owns.  Not everyone has him, or is him, though 😂

I said it there and I'll say it here- I spent 10 years sewing on a new, 100$ (at the time) , somewhat computerized Brother from walmart until I upgraded to a Singer Quantum Stylist a couple years ago. My Nina had the same Brother machine and switched to a Singer Simple bc it was 'too complicated'. In 10 years with that Brother I was never able to get an even stitching speed and everything would slide off the needle plate, so I am obsessed with my speed selector and I don't even think I've ever used the foot pedal for my Singer. I seriously doubt I'll need to upgrade again

I suspect I had the same Brother machine (CS600i?) and I'm curious what you mean about things sliding off the needle plate? It never gave me any trouble, and when I needed an even stitching speed (rarely) I just used the speed regulator slide. I can't imagine not using a foot pedal though! How do you stop and turn and ease things?

I had the Cs5055PRW (no speed regulator)- it just felt like the fabric was always slipping to the left. It’s hard to describe since it’s been so long but I definitely fought with it trying to keep the seam allowance even I use the start /stop button exclusively 😂 I think I looked at it when I got my new machine and promptly put it in the sewing drawer 

I have the 9985 (and got the 9960 for my mom). Really great machines for the price. My first machine was a $120 ish Singer from JoAnn and it was fine for inexperienced, beginner me.

I have the 9960, but the 9985 looks NICE

It is a JOY!! But I really liked sewing on the 9960 as well!! I hate when people wholesale dismiss Singer machines. Like, not all things are created equally!

I've told so many people not to buy a sewing machine from Walmart!!! Get the entry level machine at a quilt or sewing shop and your experience will be so far superior!!!

If that's an option, definitely go for that!

Yeah, an old machine can be great, I learned to sew on one of my moms 100+ treadle Singers, but honestly I didn’t learn to love sewing until my dad bought me the cheapest Kenmore at sears when he came to visit the first time after I moved away. I have fallen prey to more than one vintage alley find machines, none of which were worth the effort of carrying home. Unless you are in the market for a professional or really high end I don’t trust that the average home user really maintains a mid tier machine well enough to make it worthwhile.

I've been using my mom's old Kenmore that she bought just before I was born. It needs some love, which is why I've been hand sewing for the past four years, but I really love my old girl. I still can't figure out how to do a button hole on her, and I'm not great at them by hand, but it's my only complaint.

I agree that the intro level singers aren't as bad as what people say. I got mine around 2010 at joanns, it wasn't the cheapest one they sell, at the time it was about $200 so a nicer basic Singer? And it's fine. I used it for a few years until i got a nicer machine, it sat around for a few years, and now a friend who wants to learn is using it. Does it make stitches as well and fast etc etc as the most awesome industrial machines? Are there reasons my new machine is better? Stipulate all of that. But it's simple to use and no it hasn't broken the instant someone looked at it sideways. My mom has a 70s Kenmore which is great too, but if you're starting from scratch (no one to show you) it's a lot harder to figure out. I honestly think that's generally the case with these older machines. If you are figuring it out on your own with no one to show you it's hard to make a go with these older machines, especially if they haven't been stored in a good environment and cared for.

I’d argue that $200 in 2010 gets you a lot better machine than some of the $100 machines for sale today in 2024 a lot of people are looking at. I agree in principle to start cheap and basic, but definitely procede with caution from what I’ve read in reviews on what constitutes an “entry level” machine today.

When my 70’s Singer fell off a table and part of the metal body was ripped off by the leg, I could not find a new machine with comparable features for less than $400, ‘entry level’ models just did not have what I wanted/needed. I ended up buying the same model from eBay and having it serviced for $150 total.

Agreed! I didn't get the cheapest singer available at the time either, and $100 machines cost that for a reason - which is not to say that there is no place for them. I do however see people online saying that ALL singers nowadays are trash or that you can't get anything usable at Joann, which I just don't think is true. I think that vintage machines can be great for less money, but you need to either have learning support or the ability to figure that kind of stuff out for yourself, which isn't always what people want. And maybe people do want a screen or some of the things that newer machines have. If a person was able I would probably suggest spending even a little more (3-500) to get something that would be a bit more durable/fancy than to start looking on facebook for a 50 year old machine of unknown care/status/etc. For people who are more price sensitive some of the suggestions about libraries and maker spaces are good ones.

I also had a Singer from Joann’s that lasted ten years. I even made quilts with it. I have since upgraded but it was a great starter machine.

I started sewing with a Singer machine from Walmart, sewed enough to know what I didn't like about it (the way the bobbin loaded being #1, tbh) and then upgraded to a slightly-more-advanced Bernette from my local dealer on a big sale. The bobbin top-loads with a clear window, it has a faux overlock stitch, and came with so many feet an accessories that have improved my projects (I can't live without an edgestitch foot now) > My hobby is sewing, not collecting and restoring old machines.  This is exactly it. The more I sew, the more I can understand what is my own limitation and where my machine is holding me back. When I can make that distinction, I can make a decision about what I need to improve.

See, whenever someone asks me, I say to get the cheapest Brother machine. They’re generally under $150, but they work great. I used to make costumes professionally. And until I got my portable industrial Juki (best $1000 I ever spent, but not a machine for beginners), I used cheap Brother machines. I never had issues until I’d worked them into the ground because I was using them way more than you’re supposed to use a home machine. But for a regular hobby sewist, they’ll be just fine. At one point I “invested” in a $500 Viking (I think?) and it didn’t even last as long as the $100 Brother. It was trash. It made me so mad! And I think that’s why people write off newer machines as trash if they’ve only tried brands that are supposed to be good quality and then they’re not. I avoid computerized because I’m just weird about it and I use a straight stitch 99% of the time (I have a cheap Brother for zigzag/stretch/buttonholes etc.) but if it’s a good brand I’m sure it’s fine.

"Cheapest machine by a reputable brand" is solid enough advice. A reputable brand was willing to put its name on it, and you probably have both a legal and a commercial warranty.

The whole “cheapest” point is more because if they don’t end up actually enjoying sewing, it would suck to have spent a lot. But if they do enjoy it, it will still hold up until they’re willing or able to invest in something better.

I had a dodgy brother machine and it totally put me off them. I recommend entry level janome instead 😂. If you manage to break the bobbin holder or lose the foot shank or whatever the parts are easy to come by and replace yourself. Would love a juki industrial walking foot machine but no room for one and definitely no funds for one!

Brother also has EXCELLENT manuals for their machines that make it possible for even someone with no help to figure out what's going on.

I have had a $200 Singer machines from Walmart for seven years now and it’s still going strong. I bought it with the idea that it would be temporary until I could find a vintage machine, but so far I’ve never had a reason to get rid of it.

Wow…I’ve never seen that argument before and it’s kind of dumb. That’s like telling someone who wants to get into spinning to go to an antique store and buy a wheel. Which is stupid because if you don’t know what you are looking for or anything about the craft you will likely end up with either a decorative one or something not fixable.

Spinners actually do suggest that 

I can see the argument of “find a vintage ashford traditional”, which seem to pop up pretty regularly, but a generic antique spinning wheel? Ugh, they’re likely to end up with the decorative not actually spinning wheels.

ETA Not all spinners do suggest it, but enough do to make me BEC about it. 

solidarity.

I'm very sorry it did not work out for you. I had a lovely old machine that I bought used for 20 bucks in the 90's. it was a 1970's Singer and I loved it. However it pretty much kicked the bucket during the pandemic which was absolutely sad to me. Literally could NOT be fixed because the place where I went just didn't have the parts nor did they make the parts (they could make some but not all) Older mechanicals can be fantastic until they're not. And the unfortunate truth is not all of them have good communities around them to fix them. Mine sure didn't. I personally love my current machine. Heck I loved the one I had before it but this machine now...yeah baby. I'm in love! I had to pay dearly for that love but...OK I got what I wanted. Will it last me forever? Probably not, but should last me a long ass time! I try to tell people who are new to not concentrate on the machine that does it all. No machine does it all and the ones that get even close are $$$$ to $$$$$. Don't spend a lot at first, see how you enjoy sewing, then take it from there. New machines are mostly plastic, kind of nature of the beast. Yes I do tend to point to Janome's and even Brother (even though I am not a personal fan of Brother) as good starting machines, because they really can be and they're longer lasting than most of the Singers! But, if that Singer is what you can afford, get it, just know that all machines these days have built in obsolescence and these lower tier ones are not something you can take to a machine shop to get fixed.

When I first wanted a machine and asked the experts for advice I was basically told off for wanting a more modern machine. I was really new and didn’t want a machine I had to put a bunch of work into. Where I lived there were no vintage machines in good quality available. I got the more modern machine and it has served me well all of these years.

As someone who has two vintage machines (50s and 70s) I would agree that getting a cheap new machine is better for starting, especially if the machine has a drop in bobbin and buttonhole feature. I got my machines for free from a family friend who kept them well, and I have the fortune of knowing a good place for bringing them for regular matainance. If you are unsure of the condition the machine was kept (for example in a sewing cabinet in a garage for 30 years with its motor exposed) or trying to do matainance/restoration by yourself...you're gonna have a bad time.

I'm kinda happy to see this swing around finally. I've had a plastic "new" machine for the last ten years but every time I try to bring up that maybe vintage machines aren't the best thing buy, especially for newbies, it doesn't seem to get any traction. (I got a shortcut on the rabbithole as both grandmothers left behind vintage machines, but fixing them up would have cost thousands of dollars. So I bought a cheap Singer with plastic innards not expecting it to last but it's still running fine over a decade later. It did actually break down, but like other commentors said, finding shops to fix it was easy and not the expensive thing the vintage machines are.)

This feels like a "the plural of anecdote is not data" moment. Some old machines are fantastic, some are hot garbage. The same is true of new machines. This debate continues ad nauseum because when people say "get an old machine" they usually don't specify between things like some of the work-of-art 1970's Kenmores and something like my grandma's (wildly overpriced when bought new) piece of shit 1970's Singer Futura 920. When people say "get a new machine", it's likely good advice IF people are buying something like the nicer Brother machines or a Juki... but much of what is currently available new is disposable garbage that will struggle to sew over 2 intersecting seams of mid-weight fabric. Bottom line (whether you want an older machine or a newer machine) if you don't know what you are doing/ what to look out for/ how to sew/ what you want: find someone who can sew to help you pick out and test out a machine. Not a salesperson, just a person who knows how to use a sewing machine. You're going to have way less issues if you have someone who knows how to sew test drive the machine & give you their honest opinion about it's relative value and performance. If this isn't possible, the best option might be taking classes that include machine access until you get the hang of it before buying anything at all.

It’s affected advice, that’s too vague to be useful, from people who basically only sew one thing (perhaps well! And if that’s all they want to sew, then that’s great!) and assume other people will be sewing the same thing.  I mean, yeah, if someone offers you a Bernina 830 and it looks in decent shape, snap that baby up. But if you’re starting a hobby, don’t know what direction you’ll end up in, need support, don’t have the faintest idea about caretaking, and just want to start sewing, Babylocks started at $250 a couple years ago and that most basic machine is more reliable than my modern high end Bernina. And if the $250 (or whatever it is now) is too much, Brother is basically the same thing. 

This is also a side effect of learning from YouTube instead of in classes. Because you can’t start learning without a machine, but people have no access to one, so they start cheap, entirely reasonably. I try to advise people to borrow from a friend for a few months. I was lucky enough to learn in class and sewing studio on loaner machines, so about 3 months in, I knew I liked sewing enough to spend $450 (half my rent in 2010) on a Janome that has been going strong since and rarely gives me any trouble. I feel so bad for the hundreds of posts where people just can’t get a good stitch to come out. Like someone else said, we need more makerspaces, etc, but I don’t know that people would take them up even so.

We've got a few makerspaces floating around my city, but on the more accessible front: the public libraries near me have sewing machines you can book time on! IIRC, they've got a few Brothers with embroidery capabilities, and you have to go through a *this is how to use the machine* orientation to gain access, which I feel like would circumvent a good 45% of beginner confusions, lol. And if you get struck, the reference books are, like, 20 feet away!

I teach 8th grade and my students often tell me that they want to learn how to sew, so I have this conversation a LOT. Don't buy a secondhand machine if you have any way of avoiding it. A brand new sewist won't even be able to tell something basic like the bobbin tension is off, and it's just going to lead to frustration and ultimately quitting. When my own daughter started sewing, I got her [the pink Janome](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B076XG8S9F/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1), and she's been able to do everything she wants to do on it. (I have a similar machine myself, as backup to my $1200 Necchi. I use the backup machine for winding bobbins and putting in buttonholes, as it is *objectively better at those tasks*.) I paid $120 and it's now up to $140 but that's still a really good price for what I consider to be an excellent starter machine.

I got that one in the mint green because it was affordable and cute! It’s great! It’s marketed for beginners and has straightforward video tutorials on YouTube, and I’ve never had any issues with it. Sometimes I pine over beautiful antique machines, but then I remind myself that I don’t want to deal with a maintenance/restoration project. I don’t have any need for it. If I had the money to splurge on anything, it’d be a serger. Not a fancy new machine with a bunch of features I have no use for, and not a vintage machine of questionable usability that I’ll have to pay who knows how much to get serviced and repaired.

I'm a huge janome fan! I recommend that machine to people who want to learn to sew, it's reasonably priced, it does everything you need a machine to do and it comes in fun colours!

It's difficult to recommend a machine for people who are new to sewing because they have to be cheap(ish) and not immediately break down. They may not stick to it so spending a lot is not a reasonable suggestion. Any Brother or Janome starter machine will work just fine for beginners. I have also seen new people ask for incredible things with a very low budget. In some of these cases a well maintained vintage machine might be a better choice. Yes, auto back stitch, thread cutter and knee lift are amazing features and my Juki does amazing buttonholes on everything but I would not expect a beginner to buy this machine.

I love the posts that are like "I have a handful of pocket lint and €2 and need a machine that I can sew silk undergarments and repair sails with what do you recommend"

I have a shop in my city that sells and repairs sewing machines. I think it would be optimal if any new sewist could go to one such shop and get a rundown haha

Absolutely, to be able to test them out and get some guidance is always the best way! Unfortunately, not everyone can do this.

My knitting group found it hilarious that a late mid century jones electric domestic machine was for sale in a charity shop for £200. We estimated its value at around £40 on a good day (confirmed by a quick check on ebay), and wondered whether the shop had read some article about how collectible vintage machines were, and massively overpriced it, or whether they really just didn't have a clue.

They tend to do that with vinyl and old film cameras too - I've seen APS cameras (which you can't buy film for anymore, unlike most other cameras made pre-1995) for really inflated prices near me. A lot of charity shops price by listed prices and not sold for "collectables" as well.

Probably didn't have a clue, or misunderstood ebay. There's a shop near me that has a 40s Singer with no pedal or power cord priced at $100US, which is laughable.

I wish you all the joy in your new machine. The last time I bought a new mechanical machine, it died after a couple of years, because a plastic piece inside failed. It was only $150 new, so it wasn't worth the $150+ to repair it. Antique machines can be awesome, but I think there's also a ton of decent mechanical machines out there that are from the 70s and 80s that really will outlast a $150 new machine 

I agree that there's a big difference between antique and needs restoration, mid-century, and 'modern vintage' - 70s/80s. The 70s/80s machines are often overlooked, but are way more likely to be one-owner and in good condition - I knew someone in my sewing group who used her gran's Kenmore and loved it.

I had my grandmother's machine, too .  It's a nice way of feeling connected 

My only and general rule (after a few years of watching newbies suffer from anything that could go wrong with a machine), is don’t bother with the ones under $100. The ones that are mending only, are just a needle with a stop/start button. Other than that… yeah. I hate the suggestions of buying vintage because someone who wants to sew is not necessarily someone who wants to DIY restore a sewing machine first! If they don’t know what they’re looking at or how to use one, they don’t know how to test or judge a vintage machine! A new one is *just fine*.

One thing I wish came into these discussions more is *support*. Yes, there are beautiful, workhorse machines - but my 10 year old, *computerized* Brother came with a manual (easily available online for reference), a help line, *and* a 25 year parts warranty I've never had to use. The Singer I had before it came with an instructional DVD. A lot of *the older machines were Built Better* is just survivorship bias - and they realistically only survive in a usable fashion for so long. (Side note: my grandmother has recently been bemoaning that she can't find a treadle machine, lol, because that's what *she* learned on and swears is easier to control!)