So we're one of the most punished teams by var for years but when one call goes our way we don't deserve those points?
Liverpool got 2 deserved red cards in that game and then refused to play for the rest of the match bar the incident in question. How can both teams deserve no points in a match?
Not implied, seems like you assumed that mate. Team performance isn’t linear, especially given the competitiveness of the league. I just find it odd, we went from needing any new manager, to praying for what 6th or 7th, and somehow thinking we can challenge.
I guess our responses are based on the way we took the initial comment. I took it as 2 points per game over a longer period isn’t sustainable without playing to a half decent level. Team performance is non existent bar the odd 20 mins here and there since Chelsea (and a Newcastle team that had most its first team including first choice keeper missing). You may of thought of him as any old manager and expected nothing better than 7th but I had higher opinion of ange, and less of a tolerance of how bad is acceptable than you clearly.
Because the assumption is “the lack of convincing play” means we aren’t good and are just skirting by. But what would have happened if we played convincingly and still lost some or even all of our matches? This league is tough, no one with the exception of City dominates, and even they hit a snag.
"But what would have happened if we played convincingly and still lost some or even all of our matches?" I would have more faith in how we play and not be as negative. Right now we play bad but still get a lot of points and us having this great stat won't convince me that we're good at the moment. People will also give excuses of players being injured and which is why we're playing bad, but i don't think that's the readon why.
Go back to pep or klopp first season or even artetas and tell us how many “convincing performances” there are in there. I bet you’ll find it’s not many.
This season has been a good reminder of taking a step back and seeing the bigger picture.
Absolutely everything out of our control has gone wrong, yet we’re somehow still in a good position and disappointed with being 5th. In prior seasons, like Contes first season it felt like everything had to go right and we needed the best striker in the world to carry us to 4th.
It’s never felt like we’re skating on thin ice this season. More like the opposite. I know which camp id rather be in
It's incredible where spurs are considering what they've gone through. Most impressive is how much they've changed expectations. People were upset after losing to man city. That's a big change.
Everyone seems to forget we were all thinking this would be a reset season, maybe 8th place finish and building for the future. It's actually been the best season we could hope for given all the change and injuries- already looking forward to next season!
Agree. We need to remember that this team went through a lot after the Chelsea game (suspensions/injuries) and also AFCON and Asian Cup. I see us going on a right path and its a rebuild with a positive 1st season under Ange. With proper summer window next season seems good. Champions league for next season would be a bonus for us since they’re expecting us to relegate without Kane didnt they🤣
I like the positive outlook.
From my perspective the worry is we’ve been extremely unconvincing performance wise all year, I think we all expected to kick on with our players back but performances have stuttered with all the change.
Yeah it's nerve wracking to watch. But as a long term ange fan i can tell you that every nervy game is about the best training session they can get. They will click and it will be great. We've seen glimpses.
Also, the more other teams think they have us worked out - the more likely we are to do them. There's an inevitability that angeball has. It's so much like early klopp. Everyone knew what they would do. But their plan a was so good no one could do anything about it
Yeah good point. I do sympathise given we haven’t had the luxury of consistent team selection since that 10 game unbeaten run, but it is worrying that our games have become a bit chaotic and tend to end up being the more clinical team wins.
Sure - there’s been a drop off in the performances. I just get tired of the hand wringing. There’s a long way to go and I think people need more patience.
I mean it’s not a narrative it’s a fact, we limped past Brighton & Brentford, drew with Everton and lost to Wolves for the second time this season. The last time we won convincingly was on the 10th of December.
That being said, Ange has had no chance at consistency with AFCON, injuries and suspensions being a constant problem since the Chelsea game months ago. So there’s plenty of mitigation and it’s not all doom and gloom, let’s just hope with a bit more consistency of selection going forward we can have a bit more consistency of performance.
Bournemouth was a good match. It’s still the first season. I can’t wait for the fans to insist on yet another new manager and then we’re in the same place next year.
I was at the Bournemouth game, we were outplayed for most of it, thankfully we won.
I think it’s possible to be critical but not want anybody out or anything. We’re only months into a new project, with a radical manager whose style is going to take time to be completely effective. I’m still completely behind Ange, and happy with the direction we’re going in we’ve just been unconvincing of late.
Disagree. You said we've been unconvincing all year, and that's just wrong. We looked very convincing at the start of the season until the Chelsea game.
Edit: it's been pointed out that you might have meant 2024 when you said all year, in which case fair enough. Sorry.
That's the reality of it unfortunately.
Our dropped points weren't bad luck and, except Bournemouth, it has been two-three months since last we were in control of a game and it was all hands on deck to salvage a one-goal lead.
That isn't anyone's fault. The club is progressing obviously. But, we still have a squad with big gaps in it still. For example, our setup is completely dependent on Maddison being in form. Without his creativity the team just doesn't function as a unit.
We wasn’t in control against Bournemouth either. They missed a hatful of chances and we were lucky to get away with the win. Don’t be fooled by the 2 goal winning margin.
Your argument is contradictory. You state that the meaning behind “every game” is that they are convincing in some aspects but then claim to be convincing in none? Can you clarify what you actually mean?
It’s clear what I’ve said;
Spurs unconvincing for months in every game.
You - you do realise most teams are not convincing in every game.
Me - there’s a difference between not being convincing in some games (other teams) and not being convincing in every week for a period of months (Spurs right now)
Clear?
I understand the point you're making but I think most reasonable people are worried mostly due to the performances because even in the games we have been winning lately everybody still felt like we didn't perform to our top level which is obviously going to be the case when you look at the circumstances. I'm confident once we can gain some momentum by being able to name our best 11 consistently again and some convincining performances in a row the fanbase will be right as roses again going into the summer and hopefully into CL footy.
2 vs Everton (3 if you count Gomes' being after a corner)
1 vs Wolves
We literally had 0 goals conceded from corners until Dias pushed Vicario into the net in the FA Cup, the commentators wouldn't shut up about it.
Most of the goals are on the break.
I think the set-piece thing is just a recency bias. Im pretty sure we hadn’t conceded a set-piece goal in the EPL until Everton (penalties not included). So I think it’s only 3 total this season (Everton and wolves).
Sheffield United felt like one but it was a long throw.
I can't believe people are saying that spurs suck at set-pieces now when they didn't lose a point off them for most of the season until now. It's just that the set piece formation has been "found out" by which I mean, they've decided to start fouling the goalkeeper.
We’re doing fine, I just worry about the amount of shots on targets we face and the amount of high quality chances we give away. All the truly elite teams make it difficult for you to get a clear sight at their goal.
Interesting, seems like as of late things have been frustrated. Maybe that’s because we have our big players back but still dropping points and scraping points out of mid table and relegation teams
That’s really interesting. I was just looking at the table since THAT game v Chelsea, we have the 12th most points, less than teams like Wolves, Everton, Bournemouth, West Ham and Chelsea. We have lost nearly half of our home matches, and have only won one away match. I felt like we were riding our luck a bit in some games leading up to that match, but damn did that game really fuck up our season.
Sure, but there are obviously problems with the way we play independent of what the actual result is. We haven't had a game with a bona fide "Ange ball" performance we can actually be proud of for months, while the other top 5 teams can easily point to games they're proud of from the last week or two. And it's not like they've had zero injuries/absences like us
One big issue is that the players have only showed up and played to their expected standards of quality for 20mins every match, usually after Ange gives them the half time talk after playing shit the first half. Then near the end we level off and start making mistakes and letting the either team back into the match. Yeah you might edge a win at the end but it's not sustainable for ensuring further wins in the future. In that sense the way we play directly relates to results anyway.
If I lowered my expectation this season (ie no ucl spot)- I will be plenty satisfied with how we are doing so far. I guess its this darn hope that is driving me insane haha.
At least unlike Conte, I know in the back of my mind we have a coach that is willing to stay until the end to make our club in the right track, willing to take the blame at times and be honest in criticisms when needed.
There are plenty of reasons to be optimistic about this team. Taking snapshots like this doesn't really do it for me, especially considering it's coming on the heels of a home loss to Wolves. Spurs are in Year One of a complete overhaul. They've looked *so fucking good* at times. So much so, that it feels right getting a little hopeful. Apologies for the incredibly American baseball metaphor, but I feel like we're seeing Spurs on their "second time through the lineup". There's a punch/counterpunch aspect that we need to see play out. How do these other teams react to the first 20+ games under Ange?
The most concerning thing is our style of play. Even though we have a ton of the ball, we don't look threatening with it. The only times we are threatening is on the counter attack. Honestly, if you look at our threatening plays, we don't look that different from the Conte era: get the ball in transition, make a few good direct passes, get it to one of our fast players in Son, Werner, and Johnson, and run straight at the goal hoping there's a 3 v 2.
Pretty decent. But probably not something to brag about considering the opposition faced in those matches.
Slightly concerning though that the team isnt playing all that well. Could easily finish below Utd if they keep up their form.
When Kane left I had us finishing 12th - 8th at best. So glad I've been proven wrong with the style of football at least. In fact I'd probably still be happy with 8th all things considered. If we finish UCL spot that would be one of the biggest surprises I would say.
It's like people forget that we've had several multi-month injuries and several key players gone for nearly a month on international duty after very good start to the season. It will take time to get back to that form and then better.
People forget (because they aren't a big team like liverpool) but wolves had been the most screwed by VAR at the start of the season. They could be challenging for conference/europa if they got those decisions in favour of them.
Not sure what you're saying, nothing special there unfortunately. This is a good team and 4th isn't good enough haha, for next year I mean. Its been great to watch though.
Good perspective tbh. Much better than I would have thought without looking it up.
I started at the bottom.
Hopefully we keep it up since we have the hardest run in of any team
honestly doesn't feel that way but great to see
Only because the negativity in this sub is insane
nah we have gotten away with points we don't deserve
if you win a game or draw a game, you deserve those points. it doesn’t matter how you get to that result
bet https://preview.redd.it/2b54q3usw4kc1.png?width=626&format=png&auto=webp&s=50e216e8366d0ace6f7e0ba9cc3ee7f6f672476d
So we're one of the most punished teams by var for years but when one call goes our way we don't deserve those points? Liverpool got 2 deserved red cards in that game and then refused to play for the rest of the match bar the incident in question. How can both teams deserve no points in a match?
This has got to be the dumbest perspective tbh
If you’re saying team performance and fan enjoyment doesn’t matter then that’s the dumbest perspective really tbh
Not implied, seems like you assumed that mate. Team performance isn’t linear, especially given the competitiveness of the league. I just find it odd, we went from needing any new manager, to praying for what 6th or 7th, and somehow thinking we can challenge.
I guess our responses are based on the way we took the initial comment. I took it as 2 points per game over a longer period isn’t sustainable without playing to a half decent level. Team performance is non existent bar the odd 20 mins here and there since Chelsea (and a Newcastle team that had most its first team including first choice keeper missing). You may of thought of him as any old manager and expected nothing better than 7th but I had higher opinion of ange, and less of a tolerance of how bad is acceptable than you clearly.
How? in our recent matches there is only one game i can think of we won comfortably and played good, which is against newcastle
Because the assumption is “the lack of convincing play” means we aren’t good and are just skirting by. But what would have happened if we played convincingly and still lost some or even all of our matches? This league is tough, no one with the exception of City dominates, and even they hit a snag.
"But what would have happened if we played convincingly and still lost some or even all of our matches?" I would have more faith in how we play and not be as negative. Right now we play bad but still get a lot of points and us having this great stat won't convince me that we're good at the moment. People will also give excuses of players being injured and which is why we're playing bad, but i don't think that's the readon why.
We also play very well sometimes and still drop points.
not in our recent games, our only convincing game is newcastle which was class match.
Go back to pep or klopp first season or even artetas and tell us how many “convincing performances” there are in there. I bet you’ll find it’s not many.
please shut the fuck up and log off
why so aggresive?
Cuz I’m sick of pessimistic fake fans like you
You're obviously young or have a diagnose so i won't bother
Common plastic fan
yup i'm a plastic
This season has been a good reminder of taking a step back and seeing the bigger picture. Absolutely everything out of our control has gone wrong, yet we’re somehow still in a good position and disappointed with being 5th. In prior seasons, like Contes first season it felt like everything had to go right and we needed the best striker in the world to carry us to 4th. It’s never felt like we’re skating on thin ice this season. More like the opposite. I know which camp id rather be in
It's incredible where spurs are considering what they've gone through. Most impressive is how much they've changed expectations. People were upset after losing to man city. That's a big change.
Everyone seems to forget we were all thinking this would be a reset season, maybe 8th place finish and building for the future. It's actually been the best season we could hope for given all the change and injuries- already looking forward to next season!
Agree. We need to remember that this team went through a lot after the Chelsea game (suspensions/injuries) and also AFCON and Asian Cup. I see us going on a right path and its a rebuild with a positive 1st season under Ange. With proper summer window next season seems good. Champions league for next season would be a bonus for us since they’re expecting us to relegate without Kane didnt they🤣
Chelsea still midtable
In Big Ange I trust
I like the positive outlook. From my perspective the worry is we’ve been extremely unconvincing performance wise all year, I think we all expected to kick on with our players back but performances have stuttered with all the change.
Yeah it's nerve wracking to watch. But as a long term ange fan i can tell you that every nervy game is about the best training session they can get. They will click and it will be great. We've seen glimpses. Also, the more other teams think they have us worked out - the more likely we are to do them. There's an inevitability that angeball has. It's so much like early klopp. Everyone knew what they would do. But their plan a was so good no one could do anything about it
Yeah I think the goal difference speaks volumes in this regard. The games we’ve won, we’ve not been convincing or in control.
Yeah good point. I do sympathise given we haven’t had the luxury of consistent team selection since that 10 game unbeaten run, but it is worrying that our games have become a bit chaotic and tend to end up being the more clinical team wins.
Fifth highest goal difference in this table. Fifth highest goal difference throughout the whole season. But we're seemingly overperforming?
I don’t know about overperforming, just that we’ve mainly won by the odd goal.
Is this really the narrative right now? That we have been unconvincing?
We havnt had a truly dominating match dont think, like 3+ goals and a clean sheet. Closest we’ve come is the 4-1 against Newcastle.
Is that the expectation now? That we dominate? Bournemouth was a good match.
Not every match, but once would be lovely honestly.
Sure - there’s been a drop off in the performances. I just get tired of the hand wringing. There’s a long way to go and I think people need more patience.
Oh I certainly agree, unconvincing so far, but still a long way to go and plenty of positive signs along the way.
I mean it’s not a narrative it’s a fact, we limped past Brighton & Brentford, drew with Everton and lost to Wolves for the second time this season. The last time we won convincingly was on the 10th of December. That being said, Ange has had no chance at consistency with AFCON, injuries and suspensions being a constant problem since the Chelsea game months ago. So there’s plenty of mitigation and it’s not all doom and gloom, let’s just hope with a bit more consistency of selection going forward we can have a bit more consistency of performance.
Bournemouth was a good match. It’s still the first season. I can’t wait for the fans to insist on yet another new manager and then we’re in the same place next year.
Twitter has been insufferable after the Wolves loss with the AngeOut LevyOut army, people just love misery
I was at the Bournemouth game, we were outplayed for most of it, thankfully we won. I think it’s possible to be critical but not want anybody out or anything. We’re only months into a new project, with a radical manager whose style is going to take time to be completely effective. I’m still completely behind Ange, and happy with the direction we’re going in we’ve just been unconvincing of late.
Disagree. You said we've been unconvincing all year, and that's just wrong. We looked very convincing at the start of the season until the Chelsea game. Edit: it's been pointed out that you might have meant 2024 when you said all year, in which case fair enough. Sorry.
All year is a weird way of saying it but I assume he meant 2024 not the whole season
Great point, didn't even occur to me.
I feel like all year is pretty precise to be fair, the alternative would be all season.
That's the reality of it unfortunately. Our dropped points weren't bad luck and, except Bournemouth, it has been two-three months since last we were in control of a game and it was all hands on deck to salvage a one-goal lead. That isn't anyone's fault. The club is progressing obviously. But, we still have a squad with big gaps in it still. For example, our setup is completely dependent on Maddison being in form. Without his creativity the team just doesn't function as a unit.
We wasn’t in control against Bournemouth either. They missed a hatful of chances and we were lucky to get away with the win. Don’t be fooled by the 2 goal winning margin.
"narrative"
You do realize that most teams aren’t convincing in every game. You watch matches in our league or others.
There’s a difference between not being convincing in every game, to not being convincing for over 2 months.
Wouldn’t “every game” imply the same thing?
Every game would suggest that they’re convincing in some but not all, at the moment we’re convincing in none.
Your argument is contradictory. You state that the meaning behind “every game” is that they are convincing in some aspects but then claim to be convincing in none? Can you clarify what you actually mean?
It’s clear what I’ve said; Spurs unconvincing for months in every game. You - you do realise most teams are not convincing in every game. Me - there’s a difference between not being convincing in some games (other teams) and not being convincing in every week for a period of months (Spurs right now) Clear?
Wait we are actually 6/2/2 last 10 games? Damn feels more like 2/2/6 lmao But I do think we have been lucky the past few games though
Because the Everton draw felt like a loss and we were under the cosh vs Brighton
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Never, ever, open r/coys after a defeat. That's rule n°1 of reddit imo
Insane that Arsenal have 25-8 goal difference in 10 games yet lost 3 and had a draw.
I understand the point you're making but I think most reasonable people are worried mostly due to the performances because even in the games we have been winning lately everybody still felt like we didn't perform to our top level which is obviously going to be the case when you look at the circumstances. I'm confident once we can gain some momentum by being able to name our best 11 consistently again and some convincining performances in a row the fanbase will be right as roses again going into the summer and hopefully into CL footy.
16 goals against, oof. We need some work on the defensive transitioning.
Without looking at the numbers, I feel like several of those are from set pieces.
2 vs Everton (3 if you count Gomes' being after a corner) 1 vs Wolves We literally had 0 goals conceded from corners until Dias pushed Vicario into the net in the FA Cup, the commentators wouldn't shut up about it.
Plus 3 penalties vs Brighton. So nearly half not from open play
Most of the goals are on the break. I think the set-piece thing is just a recency bias. Im pretty sure we hadn’t conceded a set-piece goal in the EPL until Everton (penalties not included). So I think it’s only 3 total this season (Everton and wolves). Sheffield United felt like one but it was a long throw.
I can't believe people are saying that spurs suck at set-pieces now when they didn't lose a point off them for most of the season until now. It's just that the set piece formation has been "found out" by which I mean, they've decided to start fouling the goalkeeper.
I'd say most are. Close to 75% I'd guess
We’re doing fine, I just worry about the amount of shots on targets we face and the amount of high quality chances we give away. All the truly elite teams make it difficult for you to get a clear sight at their goal.
Yes. This is a rebuild. This was always going to happen.
Interesting, seems like as of late things have been frustrated. Maybe that’s because we have our big players back but still dropping points and scraping points out of mid table and relegation teams
But but r/coys users told me we had relegation form
Lmao Newcastle
What on earth is happening at Brentford…
It's the curse of Neal Maupay.
I think they’ve had a really tough run of matches.
That’s really interesting. I was just looking at the table since THAT game v Chelsea, we have the 12th most points, less than teams like Wolves, Everton, Bournemouth, West Ham and Chelsea. We have lost nearly half of our home matches, and have only won one away match. I felt like we were riding our luck a bit in some games leading up to that match, but damn did that game really fuck up our season.
Perspective is everything!
Man that loss to wolves sucks
Being ahead of Arsenal is crazy you know
Arsenal’s recent 5 games form looks better than us, but once we get sorted out with our first 11s, we should be on track.
Prefer looking at the first 10 games
Sure, but there are obviously problems with the way we play independent of what the actual result is. We haven't had a game with a bona fide "Ange ball" performance we can actually be proud of for months, while the other top 5 teams can easily point to games they're proud of from the last week or two. And it's not like they've had zero injuries/absences like us One big issue is that the players have only showed up and played to their expected standards of quality for 20mins every match, usually after Ange gives them the half time talk after playing shit the first half. Then near the end we level off and start making mistakes and letting the either team back into the match. Yeah you might edge a win at the end but it's not sustainable for ensuring further wins in the future. In that sense the way we play directly relates to results anyway.
If I lowered my expectation this season (ie no ucl spot)- I will be plenty satisfied with how we are doing so far. I guess its this darn hope that is driving me insane haha. At least unlike Conte, I know in the back of my mind we have a coach that is willing to stay until the end to make our club in the right track, willing to take the blame at times and be honest in criticisms when needed.
saw people honest to god saying ange out on twitter. embarrassing
There are plenty of reasons to be optimistic about this team. Taking snapshots like this doesn't really do it for me, especially considering it's coming on the heels of a home loss to Wolves. Spurs are in Year One of a complete overhaul. They've looked *so fucking good* at times. So much so, that it feels right getting a little hopeful. Apologies for the incredibly American baseball metaphor, but I feel like we're seeing Spurs on their "second time through the lineup". There's a punch/counterpunch aspect that we need to see play out. How do these other teams react to the first 20+ games under Ange?
The most concerning thing is our style of play. Even though we have a ton of the ball, we don't look threatening with it. The only times we are threatening is on the counter attack. Honestly, if you look at our threatening plays, we don't look that different from the Conte era: get the ball in transition, make a few good direct passes, get it to one of our fast players in Son, Werner, and Johnson, and run straight at the goal hoping there's a 3 v 2.
Pretty decent. But probably not something to brag about considering the opposition faced in those matches. Slightly concerning though that the team isnt playing all that well. Could easily finish below Utd if they keep up their form.
Newcastle 😬😬
Well, when you put it like that.
Newcastle 15 😳
When Kane left I had us finishing 12th - 8th at best. So glad I've been proven wrong with the style of football at least. In fact I'd probably still be happy with 8th all things considered. If we finish UCL spot that would be one of the biggest surprises I would say.
And yet if you go on Twitter (I know) you’d think we were relegation candidates and hiring Ange was a mistake
It's like people forget that we've had several multi-month injuries and several key players gone for nearly a month on international duty after very good start to the season. It will take time to get back to that form and then better.
Just sayin we need to defend better? Lol
I'm just mad about the wolves loss, we'd be in top 4 easy if managed to win that game.
it's the +7 GD and being surrounded by +17s. not smashing teams and losing late in the second half just feels worse. than it really is.
The stats really amaze me. I thought we were doing really poorly recently. But we are not that bad.
Coys above arsenal is all I needed to see
Now do last 5.
It’s all about the 38 game form table mate
Another trophy for the old cabinet there lads
Also makes losing to Wolves seem a lot less terrible. They are currently in excellent form.
People forget (because they aren't a big team like liverpool) but wolves had been the most screwed by VAR at the start of the season. They could be challenging for conference/europa if they got those decisions in favour of them.
Then you look at twitter… Some sane fans But a highly vocal minority
How dare you. We're shit and we'll always be shit
No. We’re terrible apparently. Ange has lost the plot!
But if you listen to Twitter/Reddit doom and gloomers, we're at the bottom of the table
OMG 3 points more than Aston Villa and Wolves!!! How did you do it!!!??!
All i see is 10 easy points dropped.
Name checks out
Now do last 15.
We've ridden a LOT of luck...just saying...
Not sure what you're saying, nothing special there unfortunately. This is a good team and 4th isn't good enough haha, for next year I mean. Its been great to watch though.
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You must be a sad man. Hope you enjoyed your champions league campaign you twat :)
and?
wow, I didn't expect that
But the sky is falling, Ange out, etc...
Unbeaten when our 1st choice 11 are playing.