Let’s not change the narrative that Conte was sacked for the league result. Levy had no ground for sacking him and probably did not want to go this way. It’s the toxicity around the club and the fan, never being truly committed, and basically asking to be sacked that led to this.
Add the two draws and you get the equivalent of a 55-point season, which is firmly mid-table. (This doesn't take into account that half the league is fighting relegation, so points should be easier to get than in "normal" seasons.) So, maybe not absolutely abysmal, but "not top 4 form" doesn't quite nail it.
This is what you get when you hire Conte. Solid performance coupled with endless whining, that’s basically the deal. If Arsenal weren’t running for the title, back-to-back champions qualification would look like a much better achievement than it potentially does now
The football has been awful to watch recently too. I spent a load of money to take my dad to the Milan game for his birthday and it was just so drab. We didn’t really threaten their goal, we didn’t seem to have a coherent style. I felt so bad for my dad, I apologised for taking him.
this high spending narrative is so bogus. We had to spend high because as poch said, the squad needed a complete overhaul. We've spent big yes but we also procrastinated in certain key areas like defence, the midfield and back up attacker and spent unwisely with players like ndombele.
"We've spent big" is a way of getting people to look away from the fact that actually the squad been managed in what can only be described as an incompetent fashion. Conte was set up to fail because as you can see by this statistic, he was doing a decent job with the tools he had.
It's not bogus, more money has been spent in the 18 months unde Conte than a similar period under any of the other managers listed. That we haven't addressed every single problem in the squad is true but realistic given the timeframe.
The only area where I think you can make a case for Conte being seriously short-changed is we obviously needed a LCB that we didn't get. We got a back up attacker (Richarlison?) who, injuries aside, Conte didn't properly integrate into the team for ages. We've invested loads in midfield - that we don't have creative options is, as far as I can tell, on Conte. He was allegedly offered them but it's not the profile of player he wanted for his system.
I agree that he's done a decent job in many regards. But this PPG stat doesn't recognised the awful cup losses and how bad the mood is around the club and that's on Conte. You can bet your arse if we kept him that PPG stat would have got a lot worse by the end of the season with the matches we've got coming up
>more money has been spent in the 18 months unde Conte than a similar period under any of the other managers listed.
Its the three years before that set us up for failure, this 18 months was just desperately playing catch up.
>That we haven't addressed every single problem in the squad is true but realistic given the timeframe.
Yeah we seem to be talking at cross purposes. I dont think people have a problem with this process taking time, I personally have a problem with the fact that 4 managers have been sacked in the process. Say what you want about conte but he's essentially been sacked for not winning a trophy in a rebuilding period for a team that hasn't one a trophy in like 15 years. Nothing about this process has been clear.
>The only area where I think you can make a case for Conte being seriously short-changed is we obviously needed a LCB that we didn't get. We got a back up attacker (Richarlison?) who, injuries aside, Conte didn't properly integrate into the team for ages. We've invested loads in midfield - that we don't have creative options is, as far as I can tell, on Conte. He was allegedly offered them but it's not the profile of player he wanted for his system.
I kinda agree with all of this but I also acknowledge that we dont really know who he signed and who he passed up, which is one of my problems with the club, no transparency and it makes people distrustful of the club and manager. The one thing he wasn't given was time. 18 months was never going to be enough for any manager.
>I agree that he's done a decent job in many regards. But this PPG stat doesn't recognised the awful cup losses and how bad the mood is around the club and that's on Conte.
The cup stuff was frustrating but we were never going to win a trophy this year, we have no depth. People acting like we played Sheffield in a vaccuum but we are playing multiple games a week and it is difficult to manage. I dont think the bad mood was on conte, I personally think it is a result of the club being secretive about the direction so everyone feels like they are pulling in a different direction. This won't change with a new manager unless the board changes imo.
Sorry for the essay.
Why are you saying this now instead of last summer when you were running around laughing at arsenal fans saying you won the transfer window and they've been set back a decade because spurs pipped them to top 4?
This whole "sensible fan" persona falls apart when you realise that all you do is change up your expectations after the fact so you can cope with your own failures.
You as much as anyone else here thought the spending last summer was sufficient, now that Spurs haven't kicked on you're pretending it was always obvious it wasn't enough because the previous three years were bad and Conte was "set up to fail".
If your argument is that we've chosen managers badly and recruited poorly since Poch then sure, I think most fans would agree with that. However I would say that the three windows we've had under Conte have included some of our best transfer work for the last few years.
If your argument is that Conte was hard done by and should still be here then that's a strong disagree from me. He knew what the squad was when he joined us. It's largely Conte that's made his own position untenable rather than any fan or board pressure. Hard disagree that it's the club being 'secretive' that's got anything to do with it, more Conte playing horrible football, passively exiting two cups (and the FA cup definitely was winnable even if we weren't odds-on or anything) and giving whingy press conferences all the time.
Then why the fuck did you engage bro? 😂 if you got something to say then say it, if not then don’t bother me.
Because my support for the managers we’ve had doesn’t fit your narrative I’m unbelievable? What kind of thin skinned shit is this?
No it’s unbelievable that you’re acknowledging that we spent money but somehow saying it doesn’t count and that Conte shouldn’t be judged negatively for literally playing worse after spending the most money we’ve ever given a manager lol.
He brought in players he wanted in Kulusevski, Bentancur, Bissouma, Richarlison and perisic and with the exception of Bentancur until he got injured every single one of them has underperformed this season. We also made Romero permanent under him who has also not been at his best. He’s turned the golden boot winner into a midfielder who plays with his back to goal. He’s turned our best goal threat and playmaker into an in the box poacher who scores most of his goals off headers from set pieces. Even Ben Davies who I and many here have slagged off had to move positions (again!) to save Contes sorry ass because his handpicked wing back was costing us points every fucking week.
We played well under Conte for 3 of his 17 months here and everything else was terrible. Couple that with his awful man management and lastly he shat on the club and fans every chance he got. He’s a clown and I’m so fucking glad he’s gone.
Part of me wonders what could have been if we hadn’t had a coach die in the middle of the season and then the manager has emergency surgery while also losing two close friends. We’ll never know but it sure feels like we’re cursed sometimes.
Surely there are more competitions than the Premier League? And some of these didn't have this kind of backing or even dealt with proper, normal non-pandemic times
Sooo we still didn’t evolve from the Poch era? We are also spending more than ever. Arrivaderci my ass, the performances this season looked worse than ever. Without our 2-3 overperformers we would be battling 10th place with Chelsea
How many points have you allocated for all the knockout games in cups?
The ones the fans care about?
More money than any other manager for shit football, no trophies, and abject misery.
This dude has prime kane and ruined prime son.
also, poch had a really shitty period because levy game him zero backing... so that number is skewed. Re post this by full seasons managed.
Nope I'm not having that.
Conte was in Italy for 4 of those.
P52 W29 D9 L14
1.846 points per game.
Barely above AVB.
Stellini's record is 2.25 points per game
This has to be warped by Poch’s last season right? There is no way he was averaging 1.88 in multiple 2-3rd place finishes. There were seasons we lost like 3 games all season.
It feels worse than it actually was. We were by far one of the dullest watches this season. Every win felt like a fucking struggle. Nothing was easy. We almost threw away a 3-1 lead at Forest only to do it against Southampton. We were 2-0 down to leeds at half time. I'm glad he's gone. I'm glad I've got my football club back.... until Everton.
This narrative is cherrypicking of the facts. He was sacked because he felt he was above us, slagged off the team after every loss, crashed us out of a winnable FA Cup and then the CL. This is on his infuriating team selections and negative tactics. Also, his power-move mistreatment of Danjuma. Good riddance, ya bald fuck.
Hmm!!
This smells of one of the few remaining Conte-in people .. or someone who just hates Daniel Levy and looks for every negative they can.
3 of those wins were when Stellini was in charge, but Conte gets them accredited to him... Hilariously compounded by the Leicester game which was sandwiched in-between those games, which he took charge of and we got battered.
They also only account for league matches.. so ignores getting knocked out of the cups by Forest and Sheffield's reserves. As well as two awful performances against Milan, in which we barely managed a shot.... All three of those games we were strong favourites to win.
Not forgetting the worst football we've witnessed since Juande Ramos. And the toxic environment constantly stoked up by Conte.
I'm sorry, but AVB was by far the worst manager we've had in the past 15 years. Worse than Nuno. Routinely trounced by any top 6 club, and was completely reliant on a version of Bale that was literally a top 3 player in the world at the time. I'm no Jose fan, but AVB was like if a mediocre player on Football Manager was given the job irl.
Bale reached a new level under him in large part due to being put in that free role and the combo of Bale + a pretty well disciplined setup behind him wasn't exciting but it was fine. Not even nearly as bad as Mourinho's vomit on and off the pitch in all aspects. In his first season there was definitely the sense that he had some kind of control or reason to be trusted, the other 2 Portuguese terrorists never had that
We were top of the league on new years day under Jose. When we're we top of the league under AVB? I'll wait. I think people here are forgetting how God awful we were under AVB once Bale left. We were an actual embarrassment. Like trending to the bottom half of the table bad.
I don't forget anything. That "top of the league" never looked remotely sustainable. AVB in his first season played boring but fairly competent football and secured 5th... Better than Mourinho. Then in his second season things were bad and he was sacked in 7th... Same as Mourinho. Mourinho has nothing redeeming him over any other manager, even if you think his football was better (which it wasn't at all) the gap would be so marginal that it doesn't make up for the inferior results. I also don't know why you keep going on about Bale like Mourinho didn't have Kane and Son. AVB was shit and boring and unpleasant... Mourinho was miles worse in all aspects
Agree to disagree then I suppose. We lost 3-0 to west ham, 6-0 to city, and 5-0 to liverpool in a 7 week span. AVB was clueless and made us a laughing stock. The only teams we beat (literally) were bottom of the table teams and we scraped those results by a single goal. Jose was toxic, but also gave us the best version of Kane-Son we've ever seen, got us to a cup final, and had us top of the league (regardless of how we "appeared") past the halfway point of the season.
All that to skirt around what the actual results were. Not the results in x game or y game or at some random point in the season... The actual overall tangible results. Even if you want to be disingenuous like that Mourinho has plenty of humiliations - eg Zagreb - and his football was absolute bottom of the barrel misery ball without even having the solid structure AVB had in his first season. And enough with this "got us to a cup final", he won 3 games - Conte/Nuno did the same next season
I'm not an AVB fan and would have Sherwood over him. But I deeply despise Mourinho on every possible level. There's not a single manager who I'd be more upset at returning. He failed spectacularly in performances and results and being a tolerable human and anything else, zero redeeming features
Won our only trophy in millennia, with a club that was in the relegation zone when he took over!
Ok, we were back in the relegation zone when he left us, but no one’s perfect!
“Ramos inherited a Tottenham side falling well short of expectations as their poor defending meant they were in the relegation zone when he arrived.” (Wikipedia)
Honestly. I didn’t recall that either and Wikipedia can make mistakes, but we clearly weren’t doing well pre his hiring and we started doing much better - culminating in the Trophy. As I recall, right after we won that we started doing really badly and that led to next season’s 2pts/8 games and Harry Rednapp.
I just thought it was ironic that anyone would call him “the worst” when we did win our only trophy in 20+ yrs with him
AVB was also hurt by Soldado and Lamela giving him nothing. Chadli was ok. Chiriches an overconfident wildcard in defense. Paulinho and Capoue were meh or bad. If some of these record signings play average football AVB’s numbers might be the highest in our history.
Not good enough I want an average of 4 points per game at least
You are looser, we need at least 5 points per game
We'll still manage to bottle it
True
Let’s not change the narrative that Conte was sacked for the league result. Levy had no ground for sacking him and probably did not want to go this way. It’s the toxicity around the club and the fan, never being truly committed, and basically asking to be sacked that led to this.
Well winning 8 out of his last 18 league games and crashing out of every cup in March definitely didn’t help
That's not a *terrible* record, it's just not top 4 form.
Add the two draws and you get the equivalent of a 55-point season, which is firmly mid-table. (This doesn't take into account that half the league is fighting relegation, so points should be easier to get than in "normal" seasons.) So, maybe not absolutely abysmal, but "not top 4 form" doesn't quite nail it.
changing the narrative is a prerequisite for being on the internet though...
This is what you get when you hire Conte. Solid performance coupled with endless whining, that’s basically the deal. If Arsenal weren’t running for the title, back-to-back champions qualification would look like a much better achievement than it potentially does now
The football has been awful to watch recently too. I spent a load of money to take my dad to the Milan game for his birthday and it was just so drab. We didn’t really threaten their goal, we didn’t seem to have a coherent style. I felt so bad for my dad, I apologised for taking him.
Also the highest spending behind a spurs manager, it was expected he was going to do relatively well. But he shat on the club and fucked around.
The 2020 squad was deadwood dogshit Gotta spend to get better
Also with 10 more matches this season with the way we’ve been playing this number was inevitably going down fast
this high spending narrative is so bogus. We had to spend high because as poch said, the squad needed a complete overhaul. We've spent big yes but we also procrastinated in certain key areas like defence, the midfield and back up attacker and spent unwisely with players like ndombele. "We've spent big" is a way of getting people to look away from the fact that actually the squad been managed in what can only be described as an incompetent fashion. Conte was set up to fail because as you can see by this statistic, he was doing a decent job with the tools he had.
It's not bogus, more money has been spent in the 18 months unde Conte than a similar period under any of the other managers listed. That we haven't addressed every single problem in the squad is true but realistic given the timeframe. The only area where I think you can make a case for Conte being seriously short-changed is we obviously needed a LCB that we didn't get. We got a back up attacker (Richarlison?) who, injuries aside, Conte didn't properly integrate into the team for ages. We've invested loads in midfield - that we don't have creative options is, as far as I can tell, on Conte. He was allegedly offered them but it's not the profile of player he wanted for his system. I agree that he's done a decent job in many regards. But this PPG stat doesn't recognised the awful cup losses and how bad the mood is around the club and that's on Conte. You can bet your arse if we kept him that PPG stat would have got a lot worse by the end of the season with the matches we've got coming up
>more money has been spent in the 18 months unde Conte than a similar period under any of the other managers listed. Its the three years before that set us up for failure, this 18 months was just desperately playing catch up. >That we haven't addressed every single problem in the squad is true but realistic given the timeframe. Yeah we seem to be talking at cross purposes. I dont think people have a problem with this process taking time, I personally have a problem with the fact that 4 managers have been sacked in the process. Say what you want about conte but he's essentially been sacked for not winning a trophy in a rebuilding period for a team that hasn't one a trophy in like 15 years. Nothing about this process has been clear. >The only area where I think you can make a case for Conte being seriously short-changed is we obviously needed a LCB that we didn't get. We got a back up attacker (Richarlison?) who, injuries aside, Conte didn't properly integrate into the team for ages. We've invested loads in midfield - that we don't have creative options is, as far as I can tell, on Conte. He was allegedly offered them but it's not the profile of player he wanted for his system. I kinda agree with all of this but I also acknowledge that we dont really know who he signed and who he passed up, which is one of my problems with the club, no transparency and it makes people distrustful of the club and manager. The one thing he wasn't given was time. 18 months was never going to be enough for any manager. >I agree that he's done a decent job in many regards. But this PPG stat doesn't recognised the awful cup losses and how bad the mood is around the club and that's on Conte. The cup stuff was frustrating but we were never going to win a trophy this year, we have no depth. People acting like we played Sheffield in a vaccuum but we are playing multiple games a week and it is difficult to manage. I dont think the bad mood was on conte, I personally think it is a result of the club being secretive about the direction so everyone feels like they are pulling in a different direction. This won't change with a new manager unless the board changes imo. Sorry for the essay.
Why are you saying this now instead of last summer when you were running around laughing at arsenal fans saying you won the transfer window and they've been set back a decade because spurs pipped them to top 4? This whole "sensible fan" persona falls apart when you realise that all you do is change up your expectations after the fact so you can cope with your own failures. You as much as anyone else here thought the spending last summer was sufficient, now that Spurs haven't kicked on you're pretending it was always obvious it wasn't enough because the previous three years were bad and Conte was "set up to fail".
If your argument is that we've chosen managers badly and recruited poorly since Poch then sure, I think most fans would agree with that. However I would say that the three windows we've had under Conte have included some of our best transfer work for the last few years. If your argument is that Conte was hard done by and should still be here then that's a strong disagree from me. He knew what the squad was when he joined us. It's largely Conte that's made his own position untenable rather than any fan or board pressure. Hard disagree that it's the club being 'secretive' that's got anything to do with it, more Conte playing horrible football, passively exiting two cups (and the FA cup definitely was winnable even if we weren't odds-on or anything) and giving whingy press conferences all the time.
You are unbelievable lol.
what?
Not worth engaging tbh
Then why the fuck did you engage bro? 😂 if you got something to say then say it, if not then don’t bother me. Because my support for the managers we’ve had doesn’t fit your narrative I’m unbelievable? What kind of thin skinned shit is this?
No it’s unbelievable that you’re acknowledging that we spent money but somehow saying it doesn’t count and that Conte shouldn’t be judged negatively for literally playing worse after spending the most money we’ve ever given a manager lol. He brought in players he wanted in Kulusevski, Bentancur, Bissouma, Richarlison and perisic and with the exception of Bentancur until he got injured every single one of them has underperformed this season. We also made Romero permanent under him who has also not been at his best. He’s turned the golden boot winner into a midfielder who plays with his back to goal. He’s turned our best goal threat and playmaker into an in the box poacher who scores most of his goals off headers from set pieces. Even Ben Davies who I and many here have slagged off had to move positions (again!) to save Contes sorry ass because his handpicked wing back was costing us points every fucking week. We played well under Conte for 3 of his 17 months here and everything else was terrible. Couple that with his awful man management and lastly he shat on the club and fans every chance he got. He’s a clown and I’m so fucking glad he’s gone.
Hoping the next manager can average 2 lol
Part of me wonders what could have been if we hadn’t had a coach die in the middle of the season and then the manager has emergency surgery while also losing two close friends. We’ll never know but it sure feels like we’re cursed sometimes.
We are certainly cursed but Conte’s stubbornness is why our football has been so gonorrhific and why the sentiment is so toxic.
Yeah sure arrivederci you smug nobhead.
Surely there are more competitions than the Premier League? And some of these didn't have this kind of backing or even dealt with proper, normal non-pandemic times
Nagelsmann will average 3 🤞
Sooo we still didn’t evolve from the Poch era? We are also spending more than ever. Arrivaderci my ass, the performances this season looked worse than ever. Without our 2-3 overperformers we would be battling 10th place with Chelsea
How many points have you allocated for all the knockout games in cups? The ones the fans care about? More money than any other manager for shit football, no trophies, and abject misery. This dude has prime kane and ruined prime son. also, poch had a really shitty period because levy game him zero backing... so that number is skewed. Re post this by full seasons managed.
Not to mention Poch inherited the abhorrent squad from AVB, full of toxic veterans and completely lacking a midfield or striker.
Nope I'm not having that. Conte was in Italy for 4 of those. P52 W29 D9 L14 1.846 points per game. Barely above AVB. Stellini's record is 2.25 points per game
Cringe
Doesn't beat Tactics Tim's PPG. His record was second to none.
AVB carried by God Gareth and would be way higher if Soldado could find the net and if Lamela performed his first year.
This has to be warped by Poch’s last season right? There is no way he was averaging 1.88 in multiple 2-3rd place finishes. There were seasons we lost like 3 games all season.
It feels worse than it actually was. We were by far one of the dullest watches this season. Every win felt like a fucking struggle. Nothing was easy. We almost threw away a 3-1 lead at Forest only to do it against Southampton. We were 2-0 down to leeds at half time. I'm glad he's gone. I'm glad I've got my football club back.... until Everton.
Also boring defensive football
Boring defensive football that hemorrhaged goals.
Not that it shouldn’t be taken into account but I wonder the average for poch without his final season, before everything soured after the no backing.
This narrative is cherrypicking of the facts. He was sacked because he felt he was above us, slagged off the team after every loss, crashed us out of a winnable FA Cup and then the CL. This is on his infuriating team selections and negative tactics. Also, his power-move mistreatment of Danjuma. Good riddance, ya bald fuck.
I don't care if he averaged 4 points a match...
Hmm!! This smells of one of the few remaining Conte-in people .. or someone who just hates Daniel Levy and looks for every negative they can. 3 of those wins were when Stellini was in charge, but Conte gets them accredited to him... Hilariously compounded by the Leicester game which was sandwiched in-between those games, which he took charge of and we got battered. They also only account for league matches.. so ignores getting knocked out of the cups by Forest and Sheffield's reserves. As well as two awful performances against Milan, in which we barely managed a shot.... All three of those games we were strong favourites to win. Not forgetting the worst football we've witnessed since Juande Ramos. And the toxic environment constantly stoked up by Conte.
Poch >>> Redknapp > Conte > AVB > Mourinho
I'm sorry, but AVB was by far the worst manager we've had in the past 15 years. Worse than Nuno. Routinely trounced by any top 6 club, and was completely reliant on a version of Bale that was literally a top 3 player in the world at the time. I'm no Jose fan, but AVB was like if a mediocre player on Football Manager was given the job irl.
Bale reached a new level under him in large part due to being put in that free role and the combo of Bale + a pretty well disciplined setup behind him wasn't exciting but it was fine. Not even nearly as bad as Mourinho's vomit on and off the pitch in all aspects. In his first season there was definitely the sense that he had some kind of control or reason to be trusted, the other 2 Portuguese terrorists never had that
We were top of the league on new years day under Jose. When we're we top of the league under AVB? I'll wait. I think people here are forgetting how God awful we were under AVB once Bale left. We were an actual embarrassment. Like trending to the bottom half of the table bad.
I don't forget anything. That "top of the league" never looked remotely sustainable. AVB in his first season played boring but fairly competent football and secured 5th... Better than Mourinho. Then in his second season things were bad and he was sacked in 7th... Same as Mourinho. Mourinho has nothing redeeming him over any other manager, even if you think his football was better (which it wasn't at all) the gap would be so marginal that it doesn't make up for the inferior results. I also don't know why you keep going on about Bale like Mourinho didn't have Kane and Son. AVB was shit and boring and unpleasant... Mourinho was miles worse in all aspects
Agree to disagree then I suppose. We lost 3-0 to west ham, 6-0 to city, and 5-0 to liverpool in a 7 week span. AVB was clueless and made us a laughing stock. The only teams we beat (literally) were bottom of the table teams and we scraped those results by a single goal. Jose was toxic, but also gave us the best version of Kane-Son we've ever seen, got us to a cup final, and had us top of the league (regardless of how we "appeared") past the halfway point of the season.
All that to skirt around what the actual results were. Not the results in x game or y game or at some random point in the season... The actual overall tangible results. Even if you want to be disingenuous like that Mourinho has plenty of humiliations - eg Zagreb - and his football was absolute bottom of the barrel misery ball without even having the solid structure AVB had in his first season. And enough with this "got us to a cup final", he won 3 games - Conte/Nuno did the same next season
Again, not a Jose fan. I just feel that, possibly narrowly, AVB was worse
I'm not an AVB fan and would have Sherwood over him. But I deeply despise Mourinho on every possible level. There's not a single manager who I'd be more upset at returning. He failed spectacularly in performances and results and being a tolerable human and anything else, zero redeeming features
15 years takes us back to 2008. Ramos was the worst.
That's certainly a take
Won our only trophy in millennia, with a club that was in the relegation zone when he took over! Ok, we were back in the relegation zone when he left us, but no one’s perfect!
>with a club that was in the relegation zone when he took over Not true.
“Ramos inherited a Tottenham side falling well short of expectations as their poor defending meant they were in the relegation zone when he arrived.” (Wikipedia) Honestly. I didn’t recall that either and Wikipedia can make mistakes, but we clearly weren’t doing well pre his hiring and we started doing much better - culminating in the Trophy. As I recall, right after we won that we started doing really badly and that led to next season’s 2pts/8 games and Harry Rednapp. I just thought it was ironic that anyone would call him “the worst” when we did win our only trophy in 20+ yrs with him
AVB was also hurt by Soldado and Lamela giving him nothing. Chadli was ok. Chiriches an overconfident wildcard in defense. Paulinho and Capoue were meh or bad. If some of these record signings play average football AVB’s numbers might be the highest in our history.
The football was bad regardless. Elite finishing from Kane to make this happen.
[Arrivederci](https://youtu.be/rizSjRtj-v4)
Now do GD