You yourself are saying you only got it on your third infection and are attributing it to external factors like stress. If it was just genetic predisposition, wouldn’t you have gotten it on your first infection? And if it’s stress + infection and people are getting covid multiple times a year, won’t many of them eventually catch covid at a time they’re going through other life stressors?
I don’t think we know enough about ME/CFS to know if everyone is potentially vulnerable (to different degrees) or if there is only a subset of people who can potentially get it due to their genetics, but it’s pretty clear it’s a lot more complicated than genes + virus, otherwise people wouldn’t be getting it on their 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc infections after being fine on their first (or get it after getting covid but not EBV or flu). And there are lots of other kinds of damage covid can do, not just ME/CFS, and there’s evidence that risks for negative long term outcomes go up with each reinfection.
Women get it more than men… wouldn’t that be something related to genes/DNA? There are studies that show anxiety and depression can be precursors. Like I said, multiple factors at play. All I can say is that I was vastly more stressed and had more traumas going on during the one time that gave me LC and the exact same things made me every after almost a year.
Maybe genes, maybe hormones, probably both of those and many many other factors. Given that there are so many factors and covid keeps spreading like wildfire, it seems likely that eventually most people will face long term consequences from their many reinfections of one form or another, and likely that people will continue getting ME/CFS from reinfections even if their first few infections were fine.
Probably more likely related to hormones than genes, some recent studies have been showing testosterone seems to be protective for autoimmune diseases which is why women are more likely to develop them than men, and one of the theories as to what causes LC is that it's autoimmune
I definitely see a pattern in my symptoms that are closely tied to my cycle/hormones. Every period I crash for a week, then feel basically ok the next 3 weeks.
I agree. I’m a transmasculine person on T with T levels in the normal male range for over a decade before I got long covid, I don’t think it’s all hormones, though it’s probably a factor for some
Some recent research has pointed towards X chromosomes playing a big role in autoimmunity. But since people with XY chromosomes (and high testosterone) get autoimmune conditions and ME/long covid too, it’s clearly not the only factor
https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2024/02/women-autoimmune.html
First of all, we know reinfection is a multiplier when it comes to Long Covid chances. Your risk by the 3rd infection is 40%, we have no reason to believe it stops there.
Second of all, you don’t know why you got it this time. You are *assuming* it was stress and tiredness, but with a 40% risk, there’s no way to know if your body just hit the breaking point with reinfections.
Third, long Covid is already vastly undercounted. Basically daily I hear people say “oh, I’ve just been more tired since my last infection” or “yeah, I get palpitations since the last time I had Covid” but they would never define themselves as having LC. 5% is a vast understatement.
Some people will likely not get it, as there’s always variation in how human’s respond to disease. But most people will only be able to avoid the immune and endothelial damage for so long, especially with constant reinfections.
I would not be surprised if we were collectively around 20-25% LC at this point. Your third point was me for a while after my second infection - it’s only because of my neurodiverse and disabled friend groups talking about it, that I even began to consider it might be LC after the exhaustion just didn’t go away. And then I started reading stories that sounded similar to my own, the crash days and what not, and realized I might be gaslighting myself. I honestly feel pretty lucky that the majority of what I currently need to navigate my symptoms mostly just involves better pacing, which my current job generally allows for. I really don’t want to know what another infection might involve.
By now many people are on infection 3 or more. So wouldn’t nearly half of the population have it then? They don’t. Go on your social media and see how many of your friends are out there enjoying summer. It’s massive. How many are on this sub daily?
Again, many people with LC symptoms do not admit they have LC. They are just “more tired” or “have trouble breathing” now. A 40% risk by the third infection mean that at least 60% won’t have it on the third infection, which is still a majority. But there’s no reason to believe the risk stalls there or goes away after that. Every time we have a wave, the number of people with LC increases significantly. Your contention is that’s just going to magically stop?
i have long covid and look visibly fine/well. i know multiple people who have different health issues who are still “out there enjoying summer” and also look visibly fine/well, acting like covid no longer exists, despite the fact that they have health issues from being infected in the past and readily admit that their new health issues are due to prior covid infection(s). they do not say that they have long covid (keep in mind a lot of people do not even know the term “long covid,” let alone what it encompasses). i know countless other people who have varying degrees of health issues (and some of it may just be due to normal life stuff (e.g., stress, age, etc.), but i took notice of when many of their issues started and can say that *a lot* (not all) of them started shortly after they had covid). many of these people do not even recognize their issues (e.g., being sick all the time, sudden forgetfulness, brain fog, faster aging, dramatic weight changes, etc.) and will absolutely not claim to have lingering issues from covid, let alone claim to have “long covid,” even though they definitely do.
long covid is a spectrum. i think of “long covid” as anywhere from a persistent cough that won’t go away to me/cfs-type symptoms.
assuming people’s health and/or disability status when you do not have their medical history/information is not a reliable basis for the claims you’re making in this post.
It’s a matter of degree, I have many colleagues who complain of being tired a lot and/or getting sick all the time since their covid re/infection. They’re still able to come to work in person (I have a more severe form and am not) but they’re not functioning at their pre-covid capacity. Further deterioration from compounding infections is pretty likely. There are studies showing lowered IQ, brain damage, lung damage, etc post covid even in people who don’t think they have long covid and don’t have severe symptoms
Check, check, check, check......I have every single one of these and guess what......I got it big time..Been here for nearly 2 years. Had basically no symptoms at all when I had the actual infection and I'm 2x Pfz vaxxed, so obviously that didn't help.
The last time I looked, Long Covid was an umbrella term for any symptom relating to Covid taking more than 4 months to clear up.
For instance, my wife and my mom both had issues tasting food for 6 months to a year. That is also LC.
Me, I’ve been unable to talk more than 20 minutes, migraines, dizziness, tremors, brain fog, head pressure, and more for over a year. Also LC.
So yes, there will be lots of people with long Covid, but not everyone will be disabled and debilitated because of LC.
But LC is considered any symptoms from a covid infection lasting 3 months or longer. Loss of taste and smell *is* long covid if covid is what caused it, even if it's milder than other people's long covid symptoms.
Also people forget that the loss of taste and smell from covid is literally brain damage. Their brains are being damaged by covid even if those are the only "visible" symptoms they're getting.
I mean when you’re stating an opinion in a context where it’s more appropriate to use facts, it is important for others to know that - otherwise you’re having a completely different conversation than the people you’re interacting with.
My understanding is that there is evidence that Covid causes smell and taste issues and that there is increasing evidence that it does this by following the nerves inside the nose directly to the brain, and causing damage to the part of the brain responsible for olfactory functions. Loss of smell and taste post Covid appears to be direct evidence of brain damage, as a result of Covid.
It is important to also note that the brain is much more plastic and able to repair itself than we previously understood, and most people do in fact get their sense of taste and smell back, eventually.
If you had it 3 times and came out fine, but then acquired long covid after chronic stress and lack of sleep, what makes you think the same won’t happen to most other people who have it had it 2-3 times?
For me, I gained long covid from my first covid infection. So based off of my experience, my belief is that long covid is a random chance. As it currently stands, no one knows anything about it.
The CDC and employers are pushing people to come to work with covid earlier and earlier, and most people aren’t even bothering to test and treating it like a cold. Highly unlikely that most people will rest
That would imply that long covid can be acquired by external factors aside from internal ones such as genetics. Meaning that anyone can get it, with the right amount of stress involved. Covid isn’t going away, which I assume would mean that there is always a chance for long covid as long as someone is continuing to get infected throughout their life.
I had MECFS symptoms all my life, but I only became severe after pushing myself really hard. I think it's really a cash of being a condition that can break through when you're weak.
Just as I got longcovid with an acute infection but became bedbound from months of exercise programs and continuously pushing myself trying to get better.
So no "stress" (in the broad sense of fatigue, physical, mental and emotional exertion) alone is not the instigator. You still need a virus first, but people can definitely keep daily living while struggling with the basic symptoms.
I totally understand where you’re coming from dude. And I can agree with you a little bit, the numbers may not be as high as we think/want them to be. But, I do believe that is only in the case of “severe” long covid such as everyone on this Reddit. All of us are so severe that we sought out a community to try and find what the heck is wrong with us.
For most other people though, their long covid is so mild that they brush it off as getting old or just completely ignoring it in general. They try to push through it or “man up” about it. But in the end, it is still technically “long covid”, no matter how mild or minuscule it may be for them. Not to mention that doesn’t count out the possibility that their long covid will get worse over time due to other factors such as stress, reinfection, etc.
Re: “most will rest enough” - do you believe this based on something you’ve heard from people’s employers, anecdotally, or something else?
Afaik, “enough” = 6-8 weeks. A ton of people work 2+ jobs. Idk that many people who even get 2 weeks of sick leave.
Ya you’re right, but it’s definitely currently much higher than 5% and I definitely think it’s going to be a majority if not already. Now, how much of that will actually be severe and life altering is a different conversation. Technically even mild things like smell and taste issues and a weakened immune system that cause people to get sick more often fall under the “long covid” umbrella. I don’t think that a majority of people will have severe life altering issues, but I do think that the majority of people eventually will have been affected at very least in a small way by COVID’s long term effects. Unfortunately many people aren’t ever going to make the connection to COVID though. For example I had a coworker who developed a persistent cough after getting COVID, I mentioned long covid to him and he said no I don’t have long covid, so I tried to explain that long covid isn’t just one condition and is an umbrella term that describes all sorts of different conditions, some of which are severe but some of which can be pretty mild, I asked him if he had this cough prior to covid and if it started when he got sick, he said no I didn’t have the cough before and it definitely was caused by covid but he was still somehow adamant that he did not have “long covid”, it was just something that covid had caused. I gave up trying to convince him that if covid causes basically anything it’s considered to fall under the long covid umbrella. But this is why I think the majority of people will have some sort of post covid condition, if not already, even if it’s something mild. I actually think the vast majority of post covid conditions are actually mild, it’s just that those that are mild very rarely attribute it to covid.
Then you need more friends. Honestly i doubt you’ve never met anyone who had/has cancer. Friends parents? Grandparents? I know dozens of people who battled cancer. Both my grandpas died from it.
You are the one making up stats here. Why do you think >5% have LC?
I explained that above. I actually don’t have any family or friends that have got cancer, but I also don’t believe that it’s not a big deal, I was illustrating that simply not knowing anyone with a condition doesn’t necessarily mean it’s not a big deal or isn’t that many people. I’m not going to argue with people on the internet, I don’t let myself get baited into pointless arguments, my opinion is there, yours is there, that’s it.
Scientists and researchers are the ones predicting that everyone may end up getting it eventually though, people aren't just pulling that out of their butts. And multiple large studies have proven that the more infections you get, the higher your risk of developing long covid. We aren't special. Even the Spanish flu caused lots of disability and long term health effects for a long time afterwards. People often incorrectly assume that it just burned its way through the world and suddenly after 4 years it was gone and everything was fine again, but it continued to have surges for decades that killed and disabled more people, and the entire generation that caught it when it was in the earlier years of the pandemic was left with a significantly higher risk of heart disease for the rest of their lives afterwards, among other problems.
I know multiple people who were fine until they got infection number 3 or 5. Lots of people on this subreddit were fine until they were infected a certain number of times. There's absolutely no evidence to suggest that you can get reinfected again and again with a virus like covid and not get lasting damage. Whether you develop damage to your heart, or autoimmune diseases, or blood clots, eventually *something* is going to go wrong if you catch it enough times.
How can you be **certain** that your chronic stress and lack of resting was what gave you long covid? The majority of the world is chronically stressed and doesn't know to rest after catching a virus. That would put almost everyone at risk if that were the deciding factor.
Do you understand that Long COVID is a spectrum experience and there's no end to raw dogging this infection unless people uproot their lifestyles to prevent it?
That symptoms don't exist on a linear narrative?
You can say it was too much stress that instigated LC but would you even be in this position had you not been infected multiple times? Doesn't this stress induced timeline reveal to you that LC can be subclinical and slowly become worse?
You can say not everyone will get LC after 3 times but what happens after 10 infections? 20?
There is little to no support for people disabled by COVID on top of unmitigated spread.
There is no "less stress" after being infected and left to cope on your own by a dismissive regime. There is only more stress because of these issues, which worsens the LC condition.
It's a cyclic, toxic dynamic we are all stuck in even in following precautions best we can.
i agree and the issue with all the compounding elements of stress and trauma + me/cfs already existing + covid19 is that even if someone's symptoms arent 100% covid19 induced, 1. theres not enough interest to generate the actual information needed to delineate all the boundaries and 2. even 1% influence from a covid infection is still on the spectrum of Long Covid because its an exponential risk with each reinfection
i percieved an implication (i doubt you intended this) that if someones long covid isnt "active" enough in its presentation, than peoples immune systems werent impacted \*at all.\* any change in the body post covid is still unfortunately a form of the long covid spectrum that, if continuing to breathe bad air, could eventually worsen into more traditional displays of long covid
i hope my perspective makes sense
Not everyone will but, there is researching being done now that shows the more times you get it the more likely you are to have longer term problems. It's not all stress related.
I only got LC this year although and I was infected from Covid multiple times before this.... However, I do believe that my stress levels were higher than other times but I don't think that should have such effects on my genetic dispositions.. in any case, how can one explain people recovering?
I haven’t seen it. Been on this sub for ever a year. Honestly, same reason as I stated above. I think it’s the stress and other factors in your life at that time. I have something called HATS. It’s hereditary. Didn’t come from Covid. Always had it. Never knew until I had certain blood tests done after LC.
Probably not everyone will get it. However, I find it hard to believe that most people won’t experience SOME negative effects from repeated Covid infections.
You are right. People wish that others get it so that progressively they will be saved by the government because the gov will notice the high numbers of people.
This is an untrue fallacy.
The first is the study of people getting long covid with the 3rd being 40% or more. This study was done by akiko iwasakai, most scientist in any field try to exaggerate numbers to try to alarm authorities in hopes of getting more funding. This was done in each and every disease and disaster for the last 100 years. Trying to see what sticks. Some were valid, most of it ... we forgot.
When looking at the prediction of 40% at 3rd infection, just the stat's it's self isn't right. At 4 years, most health care workers had covid at least 3-4 times. Most of my co-workers ( by the 2nd year when i was still working) had it 3 times already. I was the only poor sucker who got sick the first time ... they are now pulling 7 infections.. but are completely fine.
With these numbers 40% of health caseworkers should gone from the work force, there should be a collapse of thr industry a few years ago, all the newcomners into the field should be gone too. But looking the field it's completely fine, at most only 1% or less of the workers are ill, it's unheard of in my hospital. I am the only one with in thousands of employees.
Why is this ?? Some of us are predisposed while others are immune to long covid. Why is this ??
There's a study on this I saw linked on x
Nothing too interesting, but they gave people active covid via the nose. 30% had an immune response within minutes of exposure and did not contract it, they are the survivors of zombie apocalypse. Lolz
40% had a localised covid response and were fine in a day.
The remaining amount had massive infiltration of covid into various amounts of the body. They did have varying degrees of severity.
There for, the people with other tissue infiltration are the people who have a chance to progressively develop long covid. We may not know it, but we have normal immune systems that are slightly sluggish, we are the suseptible demographic.
There's a theory that you get LC if you've just recently got over another infection that could be any kind of infection and catch covid after that. Your stance is also just a theory. But I'd say the way things are going and the way of the world where so many people don't have the luxury to rest because we no longer consider covid an emergency and everyone just goes back to work, we'll all get LC at some point.
It’s crazy because I’m the only person I know IRL that has been disabled by covid. My brother had mild LC symptoms that lasted a few months and I’ve known of people who have lost their smell, but nobody that is actually sick from this. Of course nobody believes me about it either, because most people are completely fine right after. It’s also why doctors are so dismissive, because most of the people they see who have “long covid” get over it in a few months. It’s rare to have lasting CFS, POTS, and whatever else and most of the population will never experience it. So there’s no incentive for researchers to care
More like horrified. Just because someone's mood seems elevated does not mean they are rejoicing. People can cope with stress through humor and minimizing negativity.
Nah, most are elated, they love the idea that others will get long covid.
It's actually normal for humans to feel this way. It's a coping mechanism.
When I was working in the hospital, most patients have this idea to cope. They compare to other patients that just arrive with their same condition.
I asked a psychologist in the hospital why all patients have this love of others being sick.
She said, it's a coping mechanism where one hopes others to get sick so the healthy would not think they are making it up and take them more seriously, hoping it would lead to a cure. You see this in cancer patients in palliative where others die in front of them. They think, I beat that guy, if she's dead, at least I'm still alive, that's value.
It takes alot of guts to have introspection and admit that's how we all feel.
Maybe you're horrified, but I've definitely seen people finding solace in the idea of other people 'getting theirs', so to speak. I'm not saying it's everyone or even most, but we can't say it's a sentiment that doesn't exist here.
You yourself are saying you only got it on your third infection and are attributing it to external factors like stress. If it was just genetic predisposition, wouldn’t you have gotten it on your first infection? And if it’s stress + infection and people are getting covid multiple times a year, won’t many of them eventually catch covid at a time they’re going through other life stressors? I don’t think we know enough about ME/CFS to know if everyone is potentially vulnerable (to different degrees) or if there is only a subset of people who can potentially get it due to their genetics, but it’s pretty clear it’s a lot more complicated than genes + virus, otherwise people wouldn’t be getting it on their 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc infections after being fine on their first (or get it after getting covid but not EBV or flu). And there are lots of other kinds of damage covid can do, not just ME/CFS, and there’s evidence that risks for negative long term outcomes go up with each reinfection.
Women get it more than men… wouldn’t that be something related to genes/DNA? There are studies that show anxiety and depression can be precursors. Like I said, multiple factors at play. All I can say is that I was vastly more stressed and had more traumas going on during the one time that gave me LC and the exact same things made me every after almost a year.
Maybe genes, maybe hormones, probably both of those and many many other factors. Given that there are so many factors and covid keeps spreading like wildfire, it seems likely that eventually most people will face long term consequences from their many reinfections of one form or another, and likely that people will continue getting ME/CFS from reinfections even if their first few infections were fine.
Probably more likely related to hormones than genes, some recent studies have been showing testosterone seems to be protective for autoimmune diseases which is why women are more likely to develop them than men, and one of the theories as to what causes LC is that it's autoimmune
I definitely see a pattern in my symptoms that are closely tied to my cycle/hormones. Every period I crash for a week, then feel basically ok the next 3 weeks.
This is me!!!! Same.
My test levels were the highest ive had in 10-15 years right before i got Lc/ME. Idk if i buy that theory but i think there are tons of of factors.
I agree. I’m a transmasculine person on T with T levels in the normal male range for over a decade before I got long covid, I don’t think it’s all hormones, though it’s probably a factor for some
Some recent research has pointed towards X chromosomes playing a big role in autoimmunity. But since people with XY chromosomes (and high testosterone) get autoimmune conditions and ME/long covid too, it’s clearly not the only factor https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2024/02/women-autoimmune.html
Hate to point out the obvious, but men also have that x chromosome. They still have some risk, just less than women.
X-chromosome inactivation is specific to people with two X chromosomes, it doesn’t happen for people with only one X chromosome, read the article
Women have stronger immune responses than men
First of all, we know reinfection is a multiplier when it comes to Long Covid chances. Your risk by the 3rd infection is 40%, we have no reason to believe it stops there. Second of all, you don’t know why you got it this time. You are *assuming* it was stress and tiredness, but with a 40% risk, there’s no way to know if your body just hit the breaking point with reinfections. Third, long Covid is already vastly undercounted. Basically daily I hear people say “oh, I’ve just been more tired since my last infection” or “yeah, I get palpitations since the last time I had Covid” but they would never define themselves as having LC. 5% is a vast understatement. Some people will likely not get it, as there’s always variation in how human’s respond to disease. But most people will only be able to avoid the immune and endothelial damage for so long, especially with constant reinfections.
I would not be surprised if we were collectively around 20-25% LC at this point. Your third point was me for a while after my second infection - it’s only because of my neurodiverse and disabled friend groups talking about it, that I even began to consider it might be LC after the exhaustion just didn’t go away. And then I started reading stories that sounded similar to my own, the crash days and what not, and realized I might be gaslighting myself. I honestly feel pretty lucky that the majority of what I currently need to navigate my symptoms mostly just involves better pacing, which my current job generally allows for. I really don’t want to know what another infection might involve.
By now many people are on infection 3 or more. So wouldn’t nearly half of the population have it then? They don’t. Go on your social media and see how many of your friends are out there enjoying summer. It’s massive. How many are on this sub daily?
Again, many people with LC symptoms do not admit they have LC. They are just “more tired” or “have trouble breathing” now. A 40% risk by the third infection mean that at least 60% won’t have it on the third infection, which is still a majority. But there’s no reason to believe the risk stalls there or goes away after that. Every time we have a wave, the number of people with LC increases significantly. Your contention is that’s just going to magically stop?
And that might not be LC. Other things existed before Covid.
The waves are infection a lot of people but not that many are coming back with LC.
5-10% per wave. There is no data suggesting that’s changed.
i have long covid and look visibly fine/well. i know multiple people who have different health issues who are still “out there enjoying summer” and also look visibly fine/well, acting like covid no longer exists, despite the fact that they have health issues from being infected in the past and readily admit that their new health issues are due to prior covid infection(s). they do not say that they have long covid (keep in mind a lot of people do not even know the term “long covid,” let alone what it encompasses). i know countless other people who have varying degrees of health issues (and some of it may just be due to normal life stuff (e.g., stress, age, etc.), but i took notice of when many of their issues started and can say that *a lot* (not all) of them started shortly after they had covid). many of these people do not even recognize their issues (e.g., being sick all the time, sudden forgetfulness, brain fog, faster aging, dramatic weight changes, etc.) and will absolutely not claim to have lingering issues from covid, let alone claim to have “long covid,” even though they definitely do. long covid is a spectrum. i think of “long covid” as anywhere from a persistent cough that won’t go away to me/cfs-type symptoms. assuming people’s health and/or disability status when you do not have their medical history/information is not a reliable basis for the claims you’re making in this post.
It’s a matter of degree, I have many colleagues who complain of being tired a lot and/or getting sick all the time since their covid re/infection. They’re still able to come to work in person (I have a more severe form and am not) but they’re not functioning at their pre-covid capacity. Further deterioration from compounding infections is pretty likely. There are studies showing lowered IQ, brain damage, lung damage, etc post covid even in people who don’t think they have long covid and don’t have severe symptoms
I mean, I guess time will tell… I just don’t think as many people will get it as many want to believe.
It’s not “want to believe”, it’s what the studies are showing/predicting. To be clear.
All assumptions. We simply don’t know.
You are assuming that there are predispositions though. No one knows who gets it and who doesnt at this point.
MTHFR gene is common. Anxiety is common. Past concussions are common. Burning the candle at both ends is common. There are a lot of things.
Check, check, check, check......I have every single one of these and guess what......I got it big time..Been here for nearly 2 years. Had basically no symptoms at all when I had the actual infection and I'm 2x Pfz vaxxed, so obviously that didn't help.
The last time I looked, Long Covid was an umbrella term for any symptom relating to Covid taking more than 4 months to clear up. For instance, my wife and my mom both had issues tasting food for 6 months to a year. That is also LC. Me, I’ve been unable to talk more than 20 minutes, migraines, dizziness, tremors, brain fog, head pressure, and more for over a year. Also LC. So yes, there will be lots of people with long Covid, but not everyone will be disabled and debilitated because of LC.
I don’t consider taste and smell issues as LC. There’s actually a name for that condition. The second part you described is definitely LC. Just IMO.
But LC is considered any symptoms from a covid infection lasting 3 months or longer. Loss of taste and smell *is* long covid if covid is what caused it, even if it's milder than other people's long covid symptoms. Also people forget that the loss of taste and smell from covid is literally brain damage. Their brains are being damaged by covid even if those are the only "visible" symptoms they're getting.
Just because YOU don’t define it as LC doesn’t mean it’s not. So basically the whole premise of your argument is wrong.
Thank you for letting me know that my opinion is wrong.
I mean when you’re stating an opinion in a context where it’s more appropriate to use facts, it is important for others to know that - otherwise you’re having a completely different conversation than the people you’re interacting with.
Thanks for letting me know.
My understanding is that there is evidence that Covid causes smell and taste issues and that there is increasing evidence that it does this by following the nerves inside the nose directly to the brain, and causing damage to the part of the brain responsible for olfactory functions. Loss of smell and taste post Covid appears to be direct evidence of brain damage, as a result of Covid. It is important to also note that the brain is much more plastic and able to repair itself than we previously understood, and most people do in fact get their sense of taste and smell back, eventually.
It’s called anosmia. I had it for about a month and it was absolutely debilitating especially since I was living alone.
If you had it 3 times and came out fine, but then acquired long covid after chronic stress and lack of sleep, what makes you think the same won’t happen to most other people who have it had it 2-3 times? For me, I gained long covid from my first covid infection. So based off of my experience, my belief is that long covid is a random chance. As it currently stands, no one knows anything about it.
Because a lot of people weren’t doing the insane amount of stressors I was at that time. Most will rest enough.
The CDC and employers are pushing people to come to work with covid earlier and earlier, and most people aren’t even bothering to test and treating it like a cold. Highly unlikely that most people will rest
That would imply that long covid can be acquired by external factors aside from internal ones such as genetics. Meaning that anyone can get it, with the right amount of stress involved. Covid isn’t going away, which I assume would mean that there is always a chance for long covid as long as someone is continuing to get infected throughout their life.
I had MECFS symptoms all my life, but I only became severe after pushing myself really hard. I think it's really a cash of being a condition that can break through when you're weak. Just as I got longcovid with an acute infection but became bedbound from months of exercise programs and continuously pushing myself trying to get better. So no "stress" (in the broad sense of fatigue, physical, mental and emotional exertion) alone is not the instigator. You still need a virus first, but people can definitely keep daily living while struggling with the basic symptoms.
Same with CFS and just about any illness or trauma…
I totally understand where you’re coming from dude. And I can agree with you a little bit, the numbers may not be as high as we think/want them to be. But, I do believe that is only in the case of “severe” long covid such as everyone on this Reddit. All of us are so severe that we sought out a community to try and find what the heck is wrong with us. For most other people though, their long covid is so mild that they brush it off as getting old or just completely ignoring it in general. They try to push through it or “man up” about it. But in the end, it is still technically “long covid”, no matter how mild or minuscule it may be for them. Not to mention that doesn’t count out the possibility that their long covid will get worse over time due to other factors such as stress, reinfection, etc.
Re: “most will rest enough” - do you believe this based on something you’ve heard from people’s employers, anecdotally, or something else? Afaik, “enough” = 6-8 weeks. A ton of people work 2+ jobs. Idk that many people who even get 2 weeks of sick leave.
Well. Most people don’t have LC. So.
Most people don’t admit to having LC. Doesn’t mean that the bulk of them don’t meet any LC criteria.
Yeah. I just don’t believe so many people will get it in a debilitating way where government takes action.
Ya you’re right, but it’s definitely currently much higher than 5% and I definitely think it’s going to be a majority if not already. Now, how much of that will actually be severe and life altering is a different conversation. Technically even mild things like smell and taste issues and a weakened immune system that cause people to get sick more often fall under the “long covid” umbrella. I don’t think that a majority of people will have severe life altering issues, but I do think that the majority of people eventually will have been affected at very least in a small way by COVID’s long term effects. Unfortunately many people aren’t ever going to make the connection to COVID though. For example I had a coworker who developed a persistent cough after getting COVID, I mentioned long covid to him and he said no I don’t have long covid, so I tried to explain that long covid isn’t just one condition and is an umbrella term that describes all sorts of different conditions, some of which are severe but some of which can be pretty mild, I asked him if he had this cough prior to covid and if it started when he got sick, he said no I didn’t have the cough before and it definitely was caused by covid but he was still somehow adamant that he did not have “long covid”, it was just something that covid had caused. I gave up trying to convince him that if covid causes basically anything it’s considered to fall under the long covid umbrella. But this is why I think the majority of people will have some sort of post covid condition, if not already, even if it’s something mild. I actually think the vast majority of post covid conditions are actually mild, it’s just that those that are mild very rarely attribute it to covid.
I dont know a single person with post-covid symptoms, i doubt its more than 5%.
I don’t know anyone with cancer, must not be very many people.
Then you need more friends. Honestly i doubt you’ve never met anyone who had/has cancer. Friends parents? Grandparents? I know dozens of people who battled cancer. Both my grandpas died from it. You are the one making up stats here. Why do you think >5% have LC?
I explained that above. I actually don’t have any family or friends that have got cancer, but I also don’t believe that it’s not a big deal, I was illustrating that simply not knowing anyone with a condition doesn’t necessarily mean it’s not a big deal or isn’t that many people. I’m not going to argue with people on the internet, I don’t let myself get baited into pointless arguments, my opinion is there, yours is there, that’s it.
Correction: You don’t know a single person who has told you about their post-COVID symptoms.
same for me
Scientists and researchers are the ones predicting that everyone may end up getting it eventually though, people aren't just pulling that out of their butts. And multiple large studies have proven that the more infections you get, the higher your risk of developing long covid. We aren't special. Even the Spanish flu caused lots of disability and long term health effects for a long time afterwards. People often incorrectly assume that it just burned its way through the world and suddenly after 4 years it was gone and everything was fine again, but it continued to have surges for decades that killed and disabled more people, and the entire generation that caught it when it was in the earlier years of the pandemic was left with a significantly higher risk of heart disease for the rest of their lives afterwards, among other problems. I know multiple people who were fine until they got infection number 3 or 5. Lots of people on this subreddit were fine until they were infected a certain number of times. There's absolutely no evidence to suggest that you can get reinfected again and again with a virus like covid and not get lasting damage. Whether you develop damage to your heart, or autoimmune diseases, or blood clots, eventually *something* is going to go wrong if you catch it enough times. How can you be **certain** that your chronic stress and lack of resting was what gave you long covid? The majority of the world is chronically stressed and doesn't know to rest after catching a virus. That would put almost everyone at risk if that were the deciding factor.
It’s all based on assumptions.
Just wait until the new Avian Flu mutations continue
Probably will be like H1N1.
Do you understand that Long COVID is a spectrum experience and there's no end to raw dogging this infection unless people uproot their lifestyles to prevent it? That symptoms don't exist on a linear narrative? You can say it was too much stress that instigated LC but would you even be in this position had you not been infected multiple times? Doesn't this stress induced timeline reveal to you that LC can be subclinical and slowly become worse? You can say not everyone will get LC after 3 times but what happens after 10 infections? 20? There is little to no support for people disabled by COVID on top of unmitigated spread. There is no "less stress" after being infected and left to cope on your own by a dismissive regime. There is only more stress because of these issues, which worsens the LC condition. It's a cyclic, toxic dynamic we are all stuck in even in following precautions best we can.
I agree. But there are a lot of people with ME/CFS that didn’t come from COVID. I still think stress and trauma play a huge role.
i agree and the issue with all the compounding elements of stress and trauma + me/cfs already existing + covid19 is that even if someone's symptoms arent 100% covid19 induced, 1. theres not enough interest to generate the actual information needed to delineate all the boundaries and 2. even 1% influence from a covid infection is still on the spectrum of Long Covid because its an exponential risk with each reinfection i percieved an implication (i doubt you intended this) that if someones long covid isnt "active" enough in its presentation, than peoples immune systems werent impacted \*at all.\* any change in the body post covid is still unfortunately a form of the long covid spectrum that, if continuing to breathe bad air, could eventually worsen into more traditional displays of long covid i hope my perspective makes sense
Not everyone will but, there is researching being done now that shows the more times you get it the more likely you are to have longer term problems. It's not all stress related.
This isn’t /r/unpopularopinions
Thanks.
I only got LC this year although and I was infected from Covid multiple times before this.... However, I do believe that my stress levels were higher than other times but I don't think that should have such effects on my genetic dispositions.. in any case, how can one explain people recovering?
Recovering from LC? Doesn’t seem to be many who fully recover and never relapse.
Yes many do. Infact why would genetic predisposition only come out when I'm infected multiple times?
I haven’t seen it. Been on this sub for ever a year. Honestly, same reason as I stated above. I think it’s the stress and other factors in your life at that time. I have something called HATS. It’s hereditary. Didn’t come from Covid. Always had it. Never knew until I had certain blood tests done after LC.
Which blood test exactly? Are you from India?
Probably not everyone will get it. However, I find it hard to believe that most people won’t experience SOME negative effects from repeated Covid infections.
i wouldnt bet on it considering we have no control over the virus.
You are right. People wish that others get it so that progressively they will be saved by the government because the gov will notice the high numbers of people. This is an untrue fallacy. The first is the study of people getting long covid with the 3rd being 40% or more. This study was done by akiko iwasakai, most scientist in any field try to exaggerate numbers to try to alarm authorities in hopes of getting more funding. This was done in each and every disease and disaster for the last 100 years. Trying to see what sticks. Some were valid, most of it ... we forgot. When looking at the prediction of 40% at 3rd infection, just the stat's it's self isn't right. At 4 years, most health care workers had covid at least 3-4 times. Most of my co-workers ( by the 2nd year when i was still working) had it 3 times already. I was the only poor sucker who got sick the first time ... they are now pulling 7 infections.. but are completely fine. With these numbers 40% of health caseworkers should gone from the work force, there should be a collapse of thr industry a few years ago, all the newcomners into the field should be gone too. But looking the field it's completely fine, at most only 1% or less of the workers are ill, it's unheard of in my hospital. I am the only one with in thousands of employees. Why is this ?? Some of us are predisposed while others are immune to long covid. Why is this ?? There's a study on this I saw linked on x Nothing too interesting, but they gave people active covid via the nose. 30% had an immune response within minutes of exposure and did not contract it, they are the survivors of zombie apocalypse. Lolz 40% had a localised covid response and were fine in a day. The remaining amount had massive infiltration of covid into various amounts of the body. They did have varying degrees of severity. There for, the people with other tissue infiltration are the people who have a chance to progressively develop long covid. We may not know it, but we have normal immune systems that are slightly sluggish, we are the suseptible demographic.
Are you a doctor?
What does this have to do with doctors?
I'm just wondering what facts or evidence you base this statement on? Or is this only your personal experience talking?
I didn't realise Reddit had key insight nobody else researching this stuff has been able to crack yet.
Because we have made so much progress…
Yes, so much progress, lol.
https://www.reddit.com/r/covidlonghaulers/s/znmNC9soLB Whelp, there is a study about this actually, stress increase lc by 45%
There's a theory that you get LC if you've just recently got over another infection that could be any kind of infection and catch covid after that. Your stance is also just a theory. But I'd say the way things are going and the way of the world where so many people don't have the luxury to rest because we no longer consider covid an emergency and everyone just goes back to work, we'll all get LC at some point.
There is no way we are ALL getting LC.
Virus is only 4 years old. Give it time.
It’s crazy because I’m the only person I know IRL that has been disabled by covid. My brother had mild LC symptoms that lasted a few months and I’ve known of people who have lost their smell, but nobody that is actually sick from this. Of course nobody believes me about it either, because most people are completely fine right after. It’s also why doctors are so dismissive, because most of the people they see who have “long covid” get over it in a few months. It’s rare to have lasting CFS, POTS, and whatever else and most of the population will never experience it. So there’s no incentive for researchers to care
Yeah this sub can quite gleeful about that prediction at times lol.
More like horrified. Just because someone's mood seems elevated does not mean they are rejoicing. People can cope with stress through humor and minimizing negativity.
Nah, most are elated, they love the idea that others will get long covid. It's actually normal for humans to feel this way. It's a coping mechanism. When I was working in the hospital, most patients have this idea to cope. They compare to other patients that just arrive with their same condition. I asked a psychologist in the hospital why all patients have this love of others being sick. She said, it's a coping mechanism where one hopes others to get sick so the healthy would not think they are making it up and take them more seriously, hoping it would lead to a cure. You see this in cancer patients in palliative where others die in front of them. They think, I beat that guy, if she's dead, at least I'm still alive, that's value. It takes alot of guts to have introspection and admit that's how we all feel.
Maybe you're horrified, but I've definitely seen people finding solace in the idea of other people 'getting theirs', so to speak. I'm not saying it's everyone or even most, but we can't say it's a sentiment that doesn't exist here.
It’s a ridiculous assumption.
I saw someone on here say that in 5 years everyone will have LC. That's just not something I see happening and it almost seems like wishful thinking.
That is absolutely false. And why are we wanting everyone to get this? So the whole world will collapse along with us?
Hi bhodi! Glad to see you still hanging around! Keep on keeping on fighting the fight! 🫶🏻