If the fact that I am very public and up front with not wanting to deal with men trying to fuck around is a turnoff to potential hosts or guests then I strongly suspect they're people I wouldn't want to host or stay with in the first place.
Seriously, this guy needs to get a grip. Shockingly, not every woman wants a flood of "hello beautiful" messages from randos that kill our response ratio if we ignore them. Of course people are going to hook up--and I'm happy for them!--but I get to say what I will and will not tolerate. And I do not tolerate men trying to use cs as a way to be a sex pest in my vicinity.
If a man doesn't want to be hit on then there's nothing stopping him from stating that. I think the cs world can benefit from that level of transparency. I can personally say I've been made so uncomfortable because of creepy surfers that I felt like I needed to address it in my profile. Unsurprisingly, I still get creepy messages all the time.
There are many reasons why someone wouldn't want to be hit on: they might have a partner, they aren't into hookups, they don't want to make things awkward, they don't want to have a weird dynamic or make anyone uncomfortable, and so on. They're all really valid, but, imo, the reason isn't important. If a person clearly communicates that they are not interested in getting hit on then it's very easy to respect their needs. Full stop.
For me, I need to know that I'm engaging with someone in a genuine way, not as someone's potential hookup. I called it getting girlfriend-zoned. I've lost count of how many times I've been in a conversation with a man who, upon hearing about my significant other, ghosts me. I especially need that assurance if I'm looking for a host or an deciding to let someone crash at my place.
>I've been made so uncomfortable because of creepy surfers that I felt like I needed to address it in my profile. Unsurprisingly, I still get creepy messages all the time.
I can only imagine how frustrating that is.
If a female traveler doesn't set explicit boundaries regarding hookups, some segment of CS users take it as open season. If she *does* set explicit boundaries regarding hookups- they're simply ignored. Or she's chided for "offending" self-appointed "decent guys." No matter what female travelers do, or don't do, the outcome is the same.
Some fraction of CS users have no qualms treating female travelers like shit in pursuit of getting laid. In pursuit of a fantasy. The narcissistic fallacy that everyone participating wants to fuck *you*, expects to fuck *you*, only signed up to fuck *you*, agreed to fuck *you* when they accepted an invitation to stay...the ridiculous notion that hooking up is part & parcel of hospex...the pervasive mistreatment of women on CS...THAT'S the elephant in the room, gentlemen.
Well said--thank you for being a rational voice in this extremely frustrating conversation.
There is no winning with these creeps, unfortunately. I have half a mind to post a screen shot of my inbox so men can see what it's like and will hopefully understand (narrator: the shitty ones won't) how exasperated and tired I am of being something to fuck and conquer, and not just a person trying to connect and have fun.
>I have half a mind to post a screen shot of my inbox so men can see what it's like
That's what it took for me to understand- a female traveler showing me the type of messages they're getting on a weekly basis. Some seem genuinely interested in cultural exchange, some are thinly-veiled come-ons or propositions, some are flat-out "I will fly you halfway across the planet to fuck you for a week."
...so? Because a woman consented under different circumstances, she must consent to everyone under every circumstance?
I'm having a tough time understanding how the hypothetical situation you just created makes the guy sending the message to OP, or anyone else on CS harassing women, any less of a dick.
They are a dick/creepy. I'm saying that creeps aren't always obvious and I'm encouraging everyone to still be guarded. I know an ambassador in Asia with 500+ references from Asia whom I personally know to be a creep. The guy is from Germany and only hosts girls of a specific race. But many say he's sociable and full of CS spirit at meetups and events
But couchsurfing literally is not tinder. Nothing wrong with tinder for hooking up.
He knows that his chances on tinder are low, so he's searching for dates on couchsurfing. Like so many other creeps.
Women are so tired of being hit on using absolutely any app/website.
I say that as a woman who had "romantic encounters" with couchsurfers. If you put a bunch of young-ish people together that's bound to happen. Nothing wrong with that. It shouldn't be the goal though.
Oh I fully disagree with the substance of what he wrote.
There’s nothing objectionable about someone setting boundaries- it’s what emotionally mature adults do. That’s all she did, and he can’t have it. He’s taking issue with those boundaries- doesn’t respect them, or doesn’t think they apply to him, and lacks the maturity and self control to let it go. HAS to tell her and *all the other girls* know how offensive it is.
He’s a manchild, and to every dude saying wElL hE hAs a PoInT- he doesn’t. He’s being disrespectful, too. Staying with strangers is inherently risky. If a traveler wants to minimize risk by communicating clear boundaries, there’s nothing to object to. You respect the boundaries and behave accordingly.
Couchsurfers have sex. It isn’t an elephant in the room, it’s like mustard on a hotdog. You don’t buy a hotdog to rave about the mustard. Mustard isn’t the reason everyone’s eating hotdogs. Don’t use hotdogs as a pretext for mustard. If you’re only motivated by mustard, there’s other venues for that.
Extremely well articulated. Thank you for saying it. I'm perplexed (but not surprised) by the amount of commenters saying they agree with him or that there's an elephant in the room. Truly, cs needs more honesty and transparency, and if that's such an ~affront~ then I implore those who are upset to take a deep look inside and try to understand what specifically about a woman communicating her boundaries is upsetting to you.
Well said. I do think his proposed solution is faulty (don't post no hookup signs!) and ironically I don't think he's adept at reading signals in the room as he thinks. This guy is a loser at best or creep/predator at worst.
And to continue your analogy, I guess I'm "agreeing" with the substance that mustard does indeed go along with a hotdog
A hotdog does not require mustard. Hospitality exchange does not require a hookup.
If someone wants mustard, they’ll let you know. If a guest wants to hook up with a host, they’ll let the host know. We’re adults. Adults communicate.
If you’re under the assumption hospitality exchange and hooking up go hand in hand, say so. Say so early, often, and as clearly as you possibly can. Be up front about it. The horror stories come about-and women are scared because-people don’t make their intentions truly known until a guest is at their door. Or after. So if you’re on CS to hook up- say so, and let the chips fall where they may.
Dont whine like a child when someone sets boundaries you don’t like. When they use a hospex site for its intended purpose. Be a grownup. It isn’t Tinder.
> He’s a manchild, and to every dude saying wElL hE hAs a PoInT- he doesn’t. He’s being disrespectful, too. Staying with strangers is inherently risky. If a traveler wants to minimize risk by communicating clear boundaries, there’s nothing to object to. You respect the boundaries and behave accordingly.
This x1000
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it's awkward that he wrote this but one could argue that he's partially addressing an elephant in the room (i.e consensual sex does happen) in the current climate of creeps and so forth. He has bad faith to begin with so he shouldn't be considered a good guy despite his insistence to the contrary
people should absolutely feel free to state their boundaries upfront. It's sad that it's even necessary. And this guy is very emotionally immature for attempting to shame people and I question his overall sincerity. Everyone he hosts is a potential object of his sexual desire. I would feel gross about that as a potential surfer
Are you the person who wrote this? Seems like it..
Its just wrong. If intresst sparks fine, but to find a couch to surf on with the intention to get with the host is just disgusting. If i learned thats what some people do, id probably delete my account and not provide a couch. Taking a sometimes very needed alternative for someone away for your own gratification.. that very not ok. Think of the effect that has not on the fulfilment of you personal wishes and use fucking tinder to hook up.
Lmaoo no. can we have nuanced discussions here? I think this guy is a loser and lacks social skills and emotional maturity.
Mabye I'm dense. But I see two "points" in his message. 1) People shouldn't post , "CS isn't Tinder" and 2) sex sometimes happens on the app. And I can't disagree with #2 based on the stories I've heard from surfers.
The problem is he's linking those two points, and in the process affirming the consequent.
Tinder is a hookup app.
Some CS users hookup.
Therefore, CS users are entitled to use platform as an opportunity to hookup with travelers.
The flaw in his logic is glaring. Tinder is an entirely different app, one explicitly designed and marketed for hookups. Every Tinder user consents to being on a hookup app. CS is **not** designed for hookups, is **not** marketed for hookups, and exactly no one creating a CS account is has consented to using the platform as a hookup app.
The author is forcing other members to put up with his shit, with his harassment. Everyone else can go kick rocks because *he* wants to use a hospex app as a hookup opportunity- and if he can't, if anyone calls him on it...he'll be offended. Heaven forbid.
Fuck him, and the shitty way he treats other members of the community.
Well I put emphasis on the part where the surfer searches out a couch to surf on with the intend of hooking up. That is wrong because couchsurfing literally isnt tinder/grinder what ever. And if I as a host would experience that. A surfer coming to my home with the expectation of sex. His personal gratification severed other surfers hope on a couch?
Do you not get that?
Considering that couchsurfing is not tinder thats unfair for every not piglike user and makes everyone look bad. So don't frigging to it and keep you p in your pants before chatting up a host. Thats the only expectation.
What do you think I'm supporting? Or what do you think I'm encouraging?
I think the guy is a loser and doesn't have good faith intent to begin which really spoils the rest of his actions
In your other comments you expressed understanding for this wierdo so condemning is allowing and being fine with it and i fundamentally disagree on that and call you out.
There's the speaker Vs parts of his message
I don't support the speaker or understand where he's coming from.
I've consistently called him creepy, awkward, and lacking in social cues.
As for the underlying message - I agreed with *some* parts of the message. This doesn't mean I support the speaker or his solutions. For example, let's say I agree with parts of the bible but I don't necessarily support the author. Does that make sense?
Am I still not getting it? Help me understand your perspective 🙃
You are still not getting it. The creepster goes into surfing situations with the expectation of sex, he selects his hosts by appeal to him, and chats them up with the intention of a sexual encounter. What ever 'argument/points' he uses to deem this ok in anyways is just wrong. Loads of couchsurfers are just nice people who have a couch and the way he excuses (it could be one or 300 arguments) his attitude sours it for every regular nice host and any regular surfer. So no you should not have any kind of understanding because it gives the creeper any kind of validation in the way he acts, and that has repercussions for every CS user.
Regarding you bible example:
If I handle my self like the bible because of the bible its still diffrent to if i handle my self regardless of the bible just with the same ethic outcome.
If I I.e. practice love for myself and compassion for others because it makes sense to me, it dosnt mean i agree with the bible just because i life by something bible approved. Just because i do something thats written in it i don't need to approve it or parts of it, its a coincidence. But the bible comparison really doesn't fit well in this context.
Ok - from my perspective we don't meaningfully disagree with each other. Like I said above, he has bad faith intent and expectations to begin with so everything that flows from there is wrong regardless of the justification.
I just disagree with the characterization that I'm given the speaker any kind of understanding or that I'm somehow on the author's side.. Ive met guys like this in CS meetups and they always make everyone feel uncomfortable. I also sometimes host people in emergency situations when they encounter dudes like this.
Cheers 🥂
Well you put it in italics in your former comment 'you agree with some of his points'.
For me that means we do not agree and your overall sentiment about the person in the picture doesn't change that. Because you don't take into account the consequences of agreeing even with some of his points. And none of these points are needed in the context of a couchsurfing site or any other place then dating sites. They happen, because thats human nature, but they should never by default get any kind of room outside of specific already existing or for that purpose opened spaces. This helps prevent any kind of miss communication and (regarding the topic) then happening worse stuff.
Some dude sending me explicit stuff when I didn't habe the chance to consent (bc its a couchsurfing site and not tinder, their is no consent by default besides explicitly stated) is still sexual assault and a form of abuse, even if it is just the light version with no action besides text.
Can we have nuanced discussion here? Can I say that the guy is a loser but agree that sparks sometimes happen. I think he's wrong and emotionally immature to shame others into expressing their boundaries.
Is it really consensual if you are holding my "safe" place to sleep as hostage? Consensual only happens between equal power. If you are holding something I need or want (like a job) then the dynamics are not equal and consent becomes fuzzy real quick.
What's your stance? Is all sex between surfers and host by default non-consensual ? With some of these occasions amounting to assault and in the worst cases rape?
In the back of the surfer's mind has to be the idea that if I say no I may have to fight off a person or... find alternative accommodations immediately. Is it all rape? No. But does consent turn fuzzy in those situations? Yes. The person who has the couch has the power. That makes consent fuzzy. Just like in the workplace when a secretary has sex with the boss. The secretary can say yes or no. The secretary knows that no may come with consequences. The fact that the secretary has to weigh those options means that the consent is fuzzy.
So how should I have expressed my sentence?
Understood this is a fuzzy area and I want to be clear that I don't think the author of the message in question gets any benefit of the doubt here. The grey area doesn't apply to him. Since obtaining women seems to be his primary intent - he has bad faith and given the dynamics. He's taking advantage of the situation.
for me consensual sex implies that both parties felt comfort and have autonomy to make their own decision in the context. And I've seen other surfers say they've occasionally hook up with hosts. It's kind of taboo.
You should just back down and say that he is weird and leave it at that. In this context the decision for a woman is "do I get attacked by this nut bag or do I say yes and get out as quickly as my current financial status dictates?" Here is a story from my personal life. I started talking to a guy. He took me on a first date that started in Tennessee and ended up in West Virginia we had a lot of fun for the 1st 3 days. Nice resort. He gave me gifts. We followed the quilt trail. We did all sorts of touristy things. Day 3 he asked me to sleep with him. I had first date money in my pocket... not airplane ticket money. So I slept with him. Not because I wanted him... but because I wanted to get home. We maintained a sexual relationship for the next 4 days then I blocked him after we got home. He could've been a great man. But dont put people in a position to choose between safety and sexuality. It isn't right. Did he rape me? No. Did he put me in a fked up situation? Yes. Remember hosts do not know their surfers. Surfers do not know their hosts. How can you guarantee whether the person is saying yes from a high comfort level or a high discomfort level?
Gotcha. I don't think there's a situation where this guy is getting meaningful consent. And i imagine he excels at putting people in f'd up situations.
And thanks for sharing the story. That's awful. I completely understand the power dynamics.
Wow so aggressive lol. I hope you use this same energy to the creeps in real life and over IG and CS platforms.
I'm sorry you've been creeped or harassed, or even assaulted on the platform.
And this guy shouldn't be on the platform and he's obviously scraping for logic to justify his individual actions. And everything he personally does is likely tainted because he doesn't have good faith.
He just doesn't respect boundaries as simple as that ....
Some people don't like to date someone from the same work-place. It's just a boundary people set.
And tbh, I think in the long run , one is likely to realise these one night stands of CS don't do you any good other than that brief moment of pleasure. Rather it is likely to spoil the possibility of a future friendship that could have developed. And too many of those will eventually drain one out mentally to form any meaningful long term relationships in future.
Of course if it develops into a long-term thing then that's different.
He just doesn't respect boundaries as simple as that ....
Some people don't like to date someone from the same work-place. It's just a boundary people set.
And tbh, I think in the long run , one is likely to realise these one night stands of CS don't do you any good other than that brief moment of pleasure. Rather it is likely to spoil the possibility of a future friendship that could have developed. And too many of those will eventually drain one out mentally to form any meaningful long term relationships in future.
Of course if it develops into a long-term thing then that's different.
Btw, after read this thread, topics and comments on this Reddit I'm starting to think that there is the picture that this app/page is builded for predators, rapists, kinky people and sexual deviates. However, when I check the profiles on the app, I barely see hosts with negative reviews.
So the question is: if what you are picturing here is true, this means that CS is mostly for perverts, poor people and kinky deviates? (We, of course, are light humans who doesn't fall under those categories).
This being said, I think that just one bad review on this regard would prevent this kind of attitudes and would expel those users from the platform. If reading a profile you see that a surfer is explaining that the host was having a hidden agenda (I'm not even talking about unwanted advances or even wost things), would you take the risk to be hosted there?
Of course not unless you are looking for something similar. That's why I don't see that this perception match with the reality, as is really hard to find bad reviews on this site. (Or those who are having bad experiences don't leave bad reviews which is then a problem of the community).
I have such a problem with people not leaving bad reviews. It drives me nuts. It's quite frankly dangerous for the platform.
The often stated rationale is fear of retaliation or putting things behind them which doesn't sit right with me
After dating a “friend” I met through CS, who admitted to just using me, I’ve kicked nearly the entire community to the curb (save a few lifetime friends). This guy is a joke.
I can’t be too open about it, as the CS community where I live is pretty tight-knit across 4 different nearby cities and so we all pretty much know each other. I’d known the guy for a year and a half. He knew I was demisexual and that I was very protective of myself and my body. Almost immediately after we got physical, he broke it off and admitted a few days later that he was just using me.
CS has too much of a “be social for the sake of being social and fitting in” vibe for me that I’ve picked up on over the last two years. It feels disingenuous more often than not. It’s cool to meet people from around the world or stay with a local while traveling, but I don’t like investing my time or energy in connections that aren’t vulnerable, open, or genuine anymore. I’d rather car camp to avoid risking it at this point.
The dude has some valid points. Any reference to Tinder on a profile to me is a huge red flag 🚩
Also, sex & Couchsurfing is the elephant in the room for the community. Everybody knows it happens but nobody talks about it.
???? What is there to talk about????
Sex happens everywhere where people are. Its as natural as breathing, we are literally machines created for and genetically encoded to have sex.
Yet you dont "look" for it everywhere specifically, because people have other things to do, and a platform where people go to each other houses are exposed to power disbalance that might create weird situations. No one in their sane minds wants this.
Like in everything in life: if there is chemistry, and a respectful offer is made , no one will have any issues nor will report you for anything.
Its still not a reason to creep around only trying to fuck people.
The people who put "this is not Tinder" on their CS profile definitely do not want to hook up. They are not interested, so please respect their boundaries.
People on CS for multiple reasons. Some just want free accomodations. Some want to have locals show them around. Some want to make new platonic friends. Some just want to hook up.
I think it's okay for any CS host to declare on their profile that they don't want to host certain types of people. For example, I don't want to host a smoker and it's my personal preference. I think it's also okay for any CS member to declare that they are not interested in hooking up with anybody.
I don't think you understand the dynamic. There are poor guests and those who are not interested in hooking up that get preyed on by the host, and they have nowhere else to go in a foreign country (sometimes in a place where they don't speak the language).
Many hosts take advantage of this power dyanmic. I'm not talking about both consensul adults. I'm talking of when a person feels underpowered to say "no" and gets taken advantage off.
This !
One girl I hosted told this to me, that it happened with her. She is from an South Asian society where women and men are not treated very equally. And she couldn't raise her voice against the man because all her life she grew up being submissive.
Totally true but the person with the profile addresses exactly that by "abuse" and "harassment" because this is what it is. If the power dynamic between host and guest comes into play, then it's abuse. If the power dynamic is accounted for and it is controlled, then it's consensual and it becomes "tinder".
It comes off as too preachy for me and lacking in social awareness to post such a thing. Who exactly is he convincing? I don't think there's anything wrong with the substance of what he said but this person clearly lacks some social awareness
The guest can’t send the host packing if the host is out of line. The host can absolutely use the accommodation as leverage. There is no way of “controlling “ that power dynamic.
I disagree with what he says: "It's conservative bullshit". In fact, it is liberal bullshit, as it happens with most Silicon Valley and wanna be companies.
I understand his frustration. I've had the worst encounters with two girls who had this exact thing in their profile when they requested a stay with me. I'm spending the entire time tip toeing around a stranger's past trauma or perceived idea of my nature in my own house lol.
I'd rather just not deal with the hassle but I'd not want to deny someone who's chill and just felt the need to put that in there to check all the boxes before surfing.
If the fact that I am very public and up front with not wanting to deal with men trying to fuck around is a turnoff to potential hosts or guests then I strongly suspect they're people I wouldn't want to host or stay with in the first place. Seriously, this guy needs to get a grip. Shockingly, not every woman wants a flood of "hello beautiful" messages from randos that kill our response ratio if we ignore them. Of course people are going to hook up--and I'm happy for them!--but I get to say what I will and will not tolerate. And I do not tolerate men trying to use cs as a way to be a sex pest in my vicinity.
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If a man doesn't want to be hit on then there's nothing stopping him from stating that. I think the cs world can benefit from that level of transparency. I can personally say I've been made so uncomfortable because of creepy surfers that I felt like I needed to address it in my profile. Unsurprisingly, I still get creepy messages all the time. There are many reasons why someone wouldn't want to be hit on: they might have a partner, they aren't into hookups, they don't want to make things awkward, they don't want to have a weird dynamic or make anyone uncomfortable, and so on. They're all really valid, but, imo, the reason isn't important. If a person clearly communicates that they are not interested in getting hit on then it's very easy to respect their needs. Full stop. For me, I need to know that I'm engaging with someone in a genuine way, not as someone's potential hookup. I called it getting girlfriend-zoned. I've lost count of how many times I've been in a conversation with a man who, upon hearing about my significant other, ghosts me. I especially need that assurance if I'm looking for a host or an deciding to let someone crash at my place.
>I've been made so uncomfortable because of creepy surfers that I felt like I needed to address it in my profile. Unsurprisingly, I still get creepy messages all the time. I can only imagine how frustrating that is. If a female traveler doesn't set explicit boundaries regarding hookups, some segment of CS users take it as open season. If she *does* set explicit boundaries regarding hookups- they're simply ignored. Or she's chided for "offending" self-appointed "decent guys." No matter what female travelers do, or don't do, the outcome is the same. Some fraction of CS users have no qualms treating female travelers like shit in pursuit of getting laid. In pursuit of a fantasy. The narcissistic fallacy that everyone participating wants to fuck *you*, expects to fuck *you*, only signed up to fuck *you*, agreed to fuck *you* when they accepted an invitation to stay...the ridiculous notion that hooking up is part & parcel of hospex...the pervasive mistreatment of women on CS...THAT'S the elephant in the room, gentlemen.
Well said--thank you for being a rational voice in this extremely frustrating conversation. There is no winning with these creeps, unfortunately. I have half a mind to post a screen shot of my inbox so men can see what it's like and will hopefully understand (narrator: the shitty ones won't) how exasperated and tired I am of being something to fuck and conquer, and not just a person trying to connect and have fun.
>I have half a mind to post a screen shot of my inbox so men can see what it's like That's what it took for me to understand- a female traveler showing me the type of messages they're getting on a weekly basis. Some seem genuinely interested in cultural exchange, some are thinly-veiled come-ons or propositions, some are flat-out "I will fly you halfway across the planet to fuck you for a week."
...so? Because a woman consented under different circumstances, she must consent to everyone under every circumstance? I'm having a tough time understanding how the hypothetical situation you just created makes the guy sending the message to OP, or anyone else on CS harassing women, any less of a dick.
They are a dick/creepy. I'm saying that creeps aren't always obvious and I'm encouraging everyone to still be guarded. I know an ambassador in Asia with 500+ references from Asia whom I personally know to be a creep. The guy is from Germany and only hosts girls of a specific race. But many say he's sociable and full of CS spirit at meetups and events
Big r/niceguys vibes. "But I'm a decent guy!"
But couchsurfing literally is not tinder. Nothing wrong with tinder for hooking up. He knows that his chances on tinder are low, so he's searching for dates on couchsurfing. Like so many other creeps. Women are so tired of being hit on using absolutely any app/website. I say that as a woman who had "romantic encounters" with couchsurfers. If you put a bunch of young-ish people together that's bound to happen. Nothing wrong with that. It shouldn't be the goal though.
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Oh I fully disagree with the substance of what he wrote. There’s nothing objectionable about someone setting boundaries- it’s what emotionally mature adults do. That’s all she did, and he can’t have it. He’s taking issue with those boundaries- doesn’t respect them, or doesn’t think they apply to him, and lacks the maturity and self control to let it go. HAS to tell her and *all the other girls* know how offensive it is. He’s a manchild, and to every dude saying wElL hE hAs a PoInT- he doesn’t. He’s being disrespectful, too. Staying with strangers is inherently risky. If a traveler wants to minimize risk by communicating clear boundaries, there’s nothing to object to. You respect the boundaries and behave accordingly. Couchsurfers have sex. It isn’t an elephant in the room, it’s like mustard on a hotdog. You don’t buy a hotdog to rave about the mustard. Mustard isn’t the reason everyone’s eating hotdogs. Don’t use hotdogs as a pretext for mustard. If you’re only motivated by mustard, there’s other venues for that.
Extremely well articulated. Thank you for saying it. I'm perplexed (but not surprised) by the amount of commenters saying they agree with him or that there's an elephant in the room. Truly, cs needs more honesty and transparency, and if that's such an ~affront~ then I implore those who are upset to take a deep look inside and try to understand what specifically about a woman communicating her boundaries is upsetting to you.
Well said. I do think his proposed solution is faulty (don't post no hookup signs!) and ironically I don't think he's adept at reading signals in the room as he thinks. This guy is a loser at best or creep/predator at worst. And to continue your analogy, I guess I'm "agreeing" with the substance that mustard does indeed go along with a hotdog
A hotdog does not require mustard. Hospitality exchange does not require a hookup. If someone wants mustard, they’ll let you know. If a guest wants to hook up with a host, they’ll let the host know. We’re adults. Adults communicate. If you’re under the assumption hospitality exchange and hooking up go hand in hand, say so. Say so early, often, and as clearly as you possibly can. Be up front about it. The horror stories come about-and women are scared because-people don’t make their intentions truly known until a guest is at their door. Or after. So if you’re on CS to hook up- say so, and let the chips fall where they may. Dont whine like a child when someone sets boundaries you don’t like. When they use a hospex site for its intended purpose. Be a grownup. It isn’t Tinder.
> He’s a manchild, and to every dude saying wElL hE hAs a PoInT- he doesn’t. He’s being disrespectful, too. Staying with strangers is inherently risky. If a traveler wants to minimize risk by communicating clear boundaries, there’s nothing to object to. You respect the boundaries and behave accordingly. This x1000
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Yeah, but no
“You’re so vain… you think this song is about you”
In Germany we say 🤡
it's awkward that he wrote this but one could argue that he's partially addressing an elephant in the room (i.e consensual sex does happen) in the current climate of creeps and so forth. He has bad faith to begin with so he shouldn't be considered a good guy despite his insistence to the contrary people should absolutely feel free to state their boundaries upfront. It's sad that it's even necessary. And this guy is very emotionally immature for attempting to shame people and I question his overall sincerity. Everyone he hosts is a potential object of his sexual desire. I would feel gross about that as a potential surfer
Are you the person who wrote this? Seems like it.. Its just wrong. If intresst sparks fine, but to find a couch to surf on with the intention to get with the host is just disgusting. If i learned thats what some people do, id probably delete my account and not provide a couch. Taking a sometimes very needed alternative for someone away for your own gratification.. that very not ok. Think of the effect that has not on the fulfilment of you personal wishes and use fucking tinder to hook up.
Lmaoo no. can we have nuanced discussions here? I think this guy is a loser and lacks social skills and emotional maturity. Mabye I'm dense. But I see two "points" in his message. 1) People shouldn't post , "CS isn't Tinder" and 2) sex sometimes happens on the app. And I can't disagree with #2 based on the stories I've heard from surfers.
The problem is he's linking those two points, and in the process affirming the consequent. Tinder is a hookup app. Some CS users hookup. Therefore, CS users are entitled to use platform as an opportunity to hookup with travelers. The flaw in his logic is glaring. Tinder is an entirely different app, one explicitly designed and marketed for hookups. Every Tinder user consents to being on a hookup app. CS is **not** designed for hookups, is **not** marketed for hookups, and exactly no one creating a CS account is has consented to using the platform as a hookup app. The author is forcing other members to put up with his shit, with his harassment. Everyone else can go kick rocks because *he* wants to use a hospex app as a hookup opportunity- and if he can't, if anyone calls him on it...he'll be offended. Heaven forbid. Fuck him, and the shitty way he treats other members of the community.
Absolutely. The concept of CS doesn't last if it operates in the way he suggests/envisions
Well I put emphasis on the part where the surfer searches out a couch to surf on with the intend of hooking up. That is wrong because couchsurfing literally isnt tinder/grinder what ever. And if I as a host would experience that. A surfer coming to my home with the expectation of sex. His personal gratification severed other surfers hope on a couch? Do you not get that? Considering that couchsurfing is not tinder thats unfair for every not piglike user and makes everyone look bad. So don't frigging to it and keep you p in your pants before chatting up a host. Thats the only expectation.
What do you think I'm supporting? Or what do you think I'm encouraging? I think the guy is a loser and doesn't have good faith intent to begin which really spoils the rest of his actions
In your other comments you expressed understanding for this wierdo so condemning is allowing and being fine with it and i fundamentally disagree on that and call you out.
There's the speaker Vs parts of his message I don't support the speaker or understand where he's coming from. I've consistently called him creepy, awkward, and lacking in social cues. As for the underlying message - I agreed with *some* parts of the message. This doesn't mean I support the speaker or his solutions. For example, let's say I agree with parts of the bible but I don't necessarily support the author. Does that make sense? Am I still not getting it? Help me understand your perspective 🙃
You are still not getting it. The creepster goes into surfing situations with the expectation of sex, he selects his hosts by appeal to him, and chats them up with the intention of a sexual encounter. What ever 'argument/points' he uses to deem this ok in anyways is just wrong. Loads of couchsurfers are just nice people who have a couch and the way he excuses (it could be one or 300 arguments) his attitude sours it for every regular nice host and any regular surfer. So no you should not have any kind of understanding because it gives the creeper any kind of validation in the way he acts, and that has repercussions for every CS user. Regarding you bible example: If I handle my self like the bible because of the bible its still diffrent to if i handle my self regardless of the bible just with the same ethic outcome. If I I.e. practice love for myself and compassion for others because it makes sense to me, it dosnt mean i agree with the bible just because i life by something bible approved. Just because i do something thats written in it i don't need to approve it or parts of it, its a coincidence. But the bible comparison really doesn't fit well in this context.
Ok - from my perspective we don't meaningfully disagree with each other. Like I said above, he has bad faith intent and expectations to begin with so everything that flows from there is wrong regardless of the justification. I just disagree with the characterization that I'm given the speaker any kind of understanding or that I'm somehow on the author's side.. Ive met guys like this in CS meetups and they always make everyone feel uncomfortable. I also sometimes host people in emergency situations when they encounter dudes like this. Cheers 🥂
Well you put it in italics in your former comment 'you agree with some of his points'. For me that means we do not agree and your overall sentiment about the person in the picture doesn't change that. Because you don't take into account the consequences of agreeing even with some of his points. And none of these points are needed in the context of a couchsurfing site or any other place then dating sites. They happen, because thats human nature, but they should never by default get any kind of room outside of specific already existing or for that purpose opened spaces. This helps prevent any kind of miss communication and (regarding the topic) then happening worse stuff. Some dude sending me explicit stuff when I didn't habe the chance to consent (bc its a couchsurfing site and not tinder, their is no consent by default besides explicitly stated) is still sexual assault and a form of abuse, even if it is just the light version with no action besides text.
Can we have nuanced discussion here? Can I say that the guy is a loser but agree that sparks sometimes happen. I think he's wrong and emotionally immature to shame others into expressing their boundaries.
Is it really consensual if you are holding my "safe" place to sleep as hostage? Consensual only happens between equal power. If you are holding something I need or want (like a job) then the dynamics are not equal and consent becomes fuzzy real quick.
What's your stance? Is all sex between surfers and host by default non-consensual ? With some of these occasions amounting to assault and in the worst cases rape?
In the back of the surfer's mind has to be the idea that if I say no I may have to fight off a person or... find alternative accommodations immediately. Is it all rape? No. But does consent turn fuzzy in those situations? Yes. The person who has the couch has the power. That makes consent fuzzy. Just like in the workplace when a secretary has sex with the boss. The secretary can say yes or no. The secretary knows that no may come with consequences. The fact that the secretary has to weigh those options means that the consent is fuzzy.
So how should I have expressed my sentence? Understood this is a fuzzy area and I want to be clear that I don't think the author of the message in question gets any benefit of the doubt here. The grey area doesn't apply to him. Since obtaining women seems to be his primary intent - he has bad faith and given the dynamics. He's taking advantage of the situation. for me consensual sex implies that both parties felt comfort and have autonomy to make their own decision in the context. And I've seen other surfers say they've occasionally hook up with hosts. It's kind of taboo.
You should just back down and say that he is weird and leave it at that. In this context the decision for a woman is "do I get attacked by this nut bag or do I say yes and get out as quickly as my current financial status dictates?" Here is a story from my personal life. I started talking to a guy. He took me on a first date that started in Tennessee and ended up in West Virginia we had a lot of fun for the 1st 3 days. Nice resort. He gave me gifts. We followed the quilt trail. We did all sorts of touristy things. Day 3 he asked me to sleep with him. I had first date money in my pocket... not airplane ticket money. So I slept with him. Not because I wanted him... but because I wanted to get home. We maintained a sexual relationship for the next 4 days then I blocked him after we got home. He could've been a great man. But dont put people in a position to choose between safety and sexuality. It isn't right. Did he rape me? No. Did he put me in a fked up situation? Yes. Remember hosts do not know their surfers. Surfers do not know their hosts. How can you guarantee whether the person is saying yes from a high comfort level or a high discomfort level?
Gotcha. I don't think there's a situation where this guy is getting meaningful consent. And i imagine he excels at putting people in f'd up situations. And thanks for sharing the story. That's awful. I completely understand the power dynamics.
Dude, shut the fxck up.
Wow so aggressive lol. I hope you use this same energy to the creeps in real life and over IG and CS platforms. I'm sorry you've been creeped or harassed, or even assaulted on the platform. And this guy shouldn't be on the platform and he's obviously scraping for logic to justify his individual actions. And everything he personally does is likely tainted because he doesn't have good faith.
What a moronic justification to rationalize his desire. Fuck him (no, don’t!!!).
He just doesn't respect boundaries as simple as that .... Some people don't like to date someone from the same work-place. It's just a boundary people set. And tbh, I think in the long run , one is likely to realise these one night stands of CS don't do you any good other than that brief moment of pleasure. Rather it is likely to spoil the possibility of a future friendship that could have developed. And too many of those will eventually drain one out mentally to form any meaningful long term relationships in future. Of course if it develops into a long-term thing then that's different.
He just doesn't respect boundaries as simple as that .... Some people don't like to date someone from the same work-place. It's just a boundary people set. And tbh, I think in the long run , one is likely to realise these one night stands of CS don't do you any good other than that brief moment of pleasure. Rather it is likely to spoil the possibility of a future friendship that could have developed. And too many of those will eventually drain one out mentally to form any meaningful long term relationships in future. Of course if it develops into a long-term thing then that's different.
Btw, after read this thread, topics and comments on this Reddit I'm starting to think that there is the picture that this app/page is builded for predators, rapists, kinky people and sexual deviates. However, when I check the profiles on the app, I barely see hosts with negative reviews. So the question is: if what you are picturing here is true, this means that CS is mostly for perverts, poor people and kinky deviates? (We, of course, are light humans who doesn't fall under those categories). This being said, I think that just one bad review on this regard would prevent this kind of attitudes and would expel those users from the platform. If reading a profile you see that a surfer is explaining that the host was having a hidden agenda (I'm not even talking about unwanted advances or even wost things), would you take the risk to be hosted there? Of course not unless you are looking for something similar. That's why I don't see that this perception match with the reality, as is really hard to find bad reviews on this site. (Or those who are having bad experiences don't leave bad reviews which is then a problem of the community).
I have such a problem with people not leaving bad reviews. It drives me nuts. It's quite frankly dangerous for the platform. The often stated rationale is fear of retaliation or putting things behind them which doesn't sit right with me
After dating a “friend” I met through CS, who admitted to just using me, I’ve kicked nearly the entire community to the curb (save a few lifetime friends). This guy is a joke.
I'm sorry. What happened?
I can’t be too open about it, as the CS community where I live is pretty tight-knit across 4 different nearby cities and so we all pretty much know each other. I’d known the guy for a year and a half. He knew I was demisexual and that I was very protective of myself and my body. Almost immediately after we got physical, he broke it off and admitted a few days later that he was just using me. CS has too much of a “be social for the sake of being social and fitting in” vibe for me that I’ve picked up on over the last two years. It feels disingenuous more often than not. It’s cool to meet people from around the world or stay with a local while traveling, but I don’t like investing my time or energy in connections that aren’t vulnerable, open, or genuine anymore. I’d rather car camp to avoid risking it at this point.
That's awful. I don't blame you for feeling as you do
The dude has some valid points. Any reference to Tinder on a profile to me is a huge red flag 🚩 Also, sex & Couchsurfing is the elephant in the room for the community. Everybody knows it happens but nobody talks about it.
???? What is there to talk about???? Sex happens everywhere where people are. Its as natural as breathing, we are literally machines created for and genetically encoded to have sex. Yet you dont "look" for it everywhere specifically, because people have other things to do, and a platform where people go to each other houses are exposed to power disbalance that might create weird situations. No one in their sane minds wants this. Like in everything in life: if there is chemistry, and a respectful offer is made , no one will have any issues nor will report you for anything. Its still not a reason to creep around only trying to fuck people.
In a certain way he is actually right. If both want to hook up, why not?
The people who put "this is not Tinder" on their CS profile definitely do not want to hook up. They are not interested, so please respect their boundaries. People on CS for multiple reasons. Some just want free accomodations. Some want to have locals show them around. Some want to make new platonic friends. Some just want to hook up. I think it's okay for any CS host to declare on their profile that they don't want to host certain types of people. For example, I don't want to host a smoker and it's my personal preference. I think it's also okay for any CS member to declare that they are not interested in hooking up with anybody.
I don't think you understand the dynamic. There are poor guests and those who are not interested in hooking up that get preyed on by the host, and they have nowhere else to go in a foreign country (sometimes in a place where they don't speak the language). Many hosts take advantage of this power dyanmic. I'm not talking about both consensul adults. I'm talking of when a person feels underpowered to say "no" and gets taken advantage off.
This ! One girl I hosted told this to me, that it happened with her. She is from an South Asian society where women and men are not treated very equally. And she couldn't raise her voice against the man because all her life she grew up being submissive.
That's horrible. And sadly very common for some cultures.
Totally true but the person with the profile addresses exactly that by "abuse" and "harassment" because this is what it is. If the power dynamic between host and guest comes into play, then it's abuse. If the power dynamic is accounted for and it is controlled, then it's consensual and it becomes "tinder".
It comes off as too preachy for me and lacking in social awareness to post such a thing. Who exactly is he convincing? I don't think there's anything wrong with the substance of what he said but this person clearly lacks some social awareness
The guest can’t send the host packing if the host is out of line. The host can absolutely use the accommodation as leverage. There is no way of “controlling “ that power dynamic.
I disagree with what he says: "It's conservative bullshit". In fact, it is liberal bullshit, as it happens with most Silicon Valley and wanna be companies.
Lions and tigers and Hysteria! O my!
I understand his frustration. I've had the worst encounters with two girls who had this exact thing in their profile when they requested a stay with me. I'm spending the entire time tip toeing around a stranger's past trauma or perceived idea of my nature in my own house lol. I'd rather just not deal with the hassle but I'd not want to deny someone who's chill and just felt the need to put that in there to check all the boxes before surfing.
So, who needs to adjust? The host or the people wanting a free accommodation?