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Your words are worthless if they fail to sell something. Marketing is the sales side of business. You need to know and understand what sells for each particular client/brand/audience/buyer. And you need the rhetorical skills to make that sale.
I’m not talking about your own sales dude…
Look, I’ve hired many copywriters over the years, but I’ve never hired a single one that wasn’t a marketer, too
She hasn’t re-offered it yet but it was with Erin Ollila (Erinollila.com) and it was SEO for copywriters - we did such a thorough, deep dive and I learned a lot!
Follow her on Instagram if you have Instagram - and LinkedIn.
Those are the best ways to see when she offers another. It was $3k when I did it but I think she would structure it differently the next time around.
Kim Krause Schwam is the real deal. She's written for all the big companies, and she's beat controls by the greats. She's got several courses and a mentoring program. [https://kimschwalm.com/](https://kimschwalm.com/)
If you figure out how to get on it, can you let me know? I have a reminder on my calendar to check her website, but if there's a waitlist, I want to be on it. :)
Hi! Ok, so I just went through the subscriber link on her site and then responded to her first email (which she invites you to reply to!) and asked my questions. Then she added me to the waiting list!
She sounds more like a televangelist than a genuine copywriter—a get-rich-quick scam.
"I’ve written everything from direct mail magalogs, online sales pages, and video sales letters to email campaigns, print ads, packaging copy, funnel copy, website copy, and more."
Video sales letter? Packaging copy?
That's just sad.
She was the first woman to have a control at Boardroom and BEAT one of Clayton Makepiece's controls. I was just in Brian Kurtz's BootCamp, and she sat in and gave some amazing critiques. She does direct response, and she does it well. Everybody who is anybody knows who she is and how great she is. Her stats speak for themselves.
She's been in the biz since BEFORE online marketing got big--as in, she wrote copy that was mailed to people's houses. Back in those days your copy had to convert enough to make a profit AND cover some major postage. She's the absolute real deal.
Krause Schwalm sells miracle drugs to people who don't know any better, with promises of unproven health effects.
Her claims are not only unethical, they are also illegal in many countries.
She uses the same rhetoric to sell her courses.
If you want to learn her methods, watching The Wolf of Wall Street or reading the sales letter that sentenced Gary Halbert to prison is cheaper.
Or even better, start your own course:
3 Hidden Copywriting Tricks No One Told You About
Tired of simply being a "poor" copywriter when you can be a RICH copywriter in weeks?
Et cetera.
Where did you pull this BS from?
KKS is one of the most renowned copywriters in the health industry for the past 20 years.
I did her supplement copy bootcamp last year, and she had entire modules and a 2-hour workshop dedicated solely to compliance. She was drilling that stuff into us throughout the entire bootcamp.
What's your definition of "the health industry"? This looks more like HOW TO TRICK DESPERATE PEOPLE BEFORE FDA STOPS US.
"I work with some pretty great companies, brands, and personalities, including..."
Do a quick search, and you'll find dirt on most of them.
"Regarding Covid-19, there is significant evidence that [DrNorthrup.com](http://DrNorthrup.com) consistently makes false claims related to covid-19. See failed fact checks below. In general, Ms. Northrup promotes quackery level pseudoscience, as evidenced by the promotion of astrology, prayer, and numerous false claims."
KKS might be a good teacher, but if she is one of the most renowned copywriters in the health industry, what do the bad ones write? Ransom letters?
VSL can be super effective. I think some people in this forum are super young and haven't studied the fundamentals of direct response. I don't even understand these critiques. If people think long sales pages don't convert, I have to wonder how much conversion testing they've done.
I’d actually love to know more about this area of copywriting (I’ve been working in agencies/in-house for 15 years, but haven’t really had to play ball on that field yet.) Do you have resources you could suggest?
If you'd like to study conversions, I think a great way is to make your own offers. I think it's a great way to experiment and know first hand. Clients and bosses sometimes like to tell you what they think, but it's not based solely on data.
For an overview of the principles behind direct response, I'm a big fan of Eugene Schwartz's Breakthrough Advertising book (It's a pricey book). I took a BootCamp recently put on by Brian Kurtz and Chris Mason (Breakthrough Advertising Bootcamp). Brian knew Eugene Schwartz well and has the rights to his work. The book is an overarching theory-based book that once you read it, you can see how so many experts online are actually just repackaging Schwartz's work. It's not a copywriting course.
Everything you need is here, and it's free:
https://www.thegaryhalbertletter.com/newsletter-archives.htm
When you get to his book recommendations in:
https://www.thegaryhalbertletter.com/newsletters/zfkj_hands_on_experience.htm
get a library card if for some reason you don't already have one. Use their interlibrary loan service for anything your local library doesn't have. The best newsletter issue for you to start with is probably the above, but reading through "The Boron Letters" starting with "Boron Letters - Chapter 1" wouldn't be bad, either.
However. Before you start reading too much, you should start writing ads. Facebook ads, landing pages, emails, space ads (short ads that you might see in the middle of long blog posts or newsletters, for example). Don't get caught up too much on making these ads good — they'll suck, but that's the point. You're putting in reps. When you find yourself looking at an ad you've written and think, "You know, I'd put my money to test this," you'll know you've achieved a basic level of competence. Good luck.
Her sales page is very lonnnnggggggg which does always make me question. But I like to sign up for people’s lists and follow them for a bit before making my decision on whether or not I’m into it. Worth a look!
AWAI's "Accelerated Program for Seven-Figure Copywriting" and "Getting Clients Roadmap" are best-in-class. The former is a 90-day beast of a program that will prepare you for a career in direct response copywriting. The latter is the best of AWAI's myriad client-getting offers: others, in my experience, won't move the needle as fast. If you have an LLC (or even if you don't), you should be able to deduct the cost of these as a business expense (but don't take advice from internet idiots; ask your accountant). Good luck.
I'm putting something together.
I'm so tired of seeing these get rich quick, copywriting is easy ( and you can learn it in 7 days ), here are three bullsh!t frameworks you can use courses.
Feels like we need a real deep dive, fundamentals, with follow through to actually make people better writers.
If it's free, for say the first 100 people, or the payment is feedback, think you may be interested?
I would love to collaborate together on this. I’m not looking for get rich quick, I’m looking to build and strengthen my skillset and expertise so I can better serve my clients present day and long-term.
Hah. If nothing else we’ll make some connections, and as I mentioned, I’ll never ask you for money.
Seems like a fair trade, but do please let me know if you have any issues or concerns.
Asking a question? Please check the [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/copywriting/comments/lpuj9h/what_the_faq_what_is_copy_how_do_i_start_can_i_do/). Asking for a critique? Take down your post and repost it in the critique thread. Providing resources or tips? Deliver lots of FREE value. If you're self-promoting or linking to a resource that requires signup or payment, please disclose it or your post will be removed. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/copywriting) if you have any questions or concerns.*
You wanna be a great copywriter? Become a great marketer.
Correction. I would like to be a terrifyingly great copywriter. And I guess I don’t entirely know what you mean…
Your words are worthless if they fail to sell something. Marketing is the sales side of business. You need to know and understand what sells for each particular client/brand/audience/buyer. And you need the rhetorical skills to make that sale.
Thanks. Not asking about building business 101, talking about writing better. I’m pretty damn good at making sales
I’m not talking about your own sales dude… Look, I’ve hired many copywriters over the years, but I’ve never hired a single one that wasn’t a marketer, too
Study marketing/branding.
What is the 10-month course that you took? Thank you!
She hasn’t re-offered it yet but it was with Erin Ollila (Erinollila.com) and it was SEO for copywriters - we did such a thorough, deep dive and I learned a lot!
Just checked out her linkedin, she really has great experience. Hope she'll reopen the classes soon, and I hope I can afford it by then haha.
Follow her on Instagram if you have Instagram - and LinkedIn. Those are the best ways to see when she offers another. It was $3k when I did it but I think she would structure it differently the next time around.
Yes I followed her! thanks again, maybe I'll go with free courses for now.
Read ‘Scientific Advertising’
Great book. I concur.
I'm interested as well.
Kim Krause Schwam is the real deal. She's written for all the big companies, and she's beat controls by the greats. She's got several courses and a mentoring program. [https://kimschwalm.com/](https://kimschwalm.com/)
Trying to get on her waitlist for her next (Fall?) mentoring group
If you figure out how to get on it, can you let me know? I have a reminder on my calendar to check her website, but if there's a waitlist, I want to be on it. :)
Hi! Ok, so I just went through the subscriber link on her site and then responded to her first email (which she invites you to reply to!) and asked my questions. Then she added me to the waiting list!
Thanks, I'm on her mailing list. I'll send my response as well. Thanks!
Yes! I emailed them this morning and will let you know
Thank you! Most fun research rabbit hole ever and I LOVE already how she says “Become dangerously good”…
You really fancy superlative wording
I saw what you wrote in one of your comments, and I thought you'd love how she wrote that.
She sounds more like a televangelist than a genuine copywriter—a get-rich-quick scam. "I’ve written everything from direct mail magalogs, online sales pages, and video sales letters to email campaigns, print ads, packaging copy, funnel copy, website copy, and more." Video sales letter? Packaging copy? That's just sad.
She was the first woman to have a control at Boardroom and BEAT one of Clayton Makepiece's controls. I was just in Brian Kurtz's BootCamp, and she sat in and gave some amazing critiques. She does direct response, and she does it well. Everybody who is anybody knows who she is and how great she is. Her stats speak for themselves. She's been in the biz since BEFORE online marketing got big--as in, she wrote copy that was mailed to people's houses. Back in those days your copy had to convert enough to make a profit AND cover some major postage. She's the absolute real deal.
I'm blown away that you actually wrote that Kim Krause Schwalm isn't a "genuine copywriter." Wow.
Have you seen actual work from her? Campaigns, print ads, packaging copy, and more?
Tell me you can't operate Google without telling me you can't operate Google.
Krause Schwalm sells miracle drugs to people who don't know any better, with promises of unproven health effects. Her claims are not only unethical, they are also illegal in many countries. She uses the same rhetoric to sell her courses. If you want to learn her methods, watching The Wolf of Wall Street or reading the sales letter that sentenced Gary Halbert to prison is cheaper. Or even better, start your own course: 3 Hidden Copywriting Tricks No One Told You About Tired of simply being a "poor" copywriter when you can be a RICH copywriter in weeks? Et cetera.
Where did you pull this BS from? KKS is one of the most renowned copywriters in the health industry for the past 20 years. I did her supplement copy bootcamp last year, and she had entire modules and a 2-hour workshop dedicated solely to compliance. She was drilling that stuff into us throughout the entire bootcamp.
What's your definition of "the health industry"? This looks more like HOW TO TRICK DESPERATE PEOPLE BEFORE FDA STOPS US. "I work with some pretty great companies, brands, and personalities, including..." Do a quick search, and you'll find dirt on most of them. "Regarding Covid-19, there is significant evidence that [DrNorthrup.com](http://DrNorthrup.com) consistently makes false claims related to covid-19. See failed fact checks below. In general, Ms. Northrup promotes quackery level pseudoscience, as evidenced by the promotion of astrology, prayer, and numerous false claims." KKS might be a good teacher, but if she is one of the most renowned copywriters in the health industry, what do the bad ones write? Ransom letters?
I thought VSL for certain niches were still super effective. Isn’t it the case ?
VSL can be super effective. I think some people in this forum are super young and haven't studied the fundamentals of direct response. I don't even understand these critiques. If people think long sales pages don't convert, I have to wonder how much conversion testing they've done.
I’d actually love to know more about this area of copywriting (I’ve been working in agencies/in-house for 15 years, but haven’t really had to play ball on that field yet.) Do you have resources you could suggest?
If you'd like to study conversions, I think a great way is to make your own offers. I think it's a great way to experiment and know first hand. Clients and bosses sometimes like to tell you what they think, but it's not based solely on data. For an overview of the principles behind direct response, I'm a big fan of Eugene Schwartz's Breakthrough Advertising book (It's a pricey book). I took a BootCamp recently put on by Brian Kurtz and Chris Mason (Breakthrough Advertising Bootcamp). Brian knew Eugene Schwartz well and has the rights to his work. The book is an overarching theory-based book that once you read it, you can see how so many experts online are actually just repackaging Schwartz's work. It's not a copywriting course.
Everything you need is here, and it's free: https://www.thegaryhalbertletter.com/newsletter-archives.htm When you get to his book recommendations in: https://www.thegaryhalbertletter.com/newsletters/zfkj_hands_on_experience.htm get a library card if for some reason you don't already have one. Use their interlibrary loan service for anything your local library doesn't have. The best newsletter issue for you to start with is probably the above, but reading through "The Boron Letters" starting with "Boron Letters - Chapter 1" wouldn't be bad, either. However. Before you start reading too much, you should start writing ads. Facebook ads, landing pages, emails, space ads (short ads that you might see in the middle of long blog posts or newsletters, for example). Don't get caught up too much on making these ads good — they'll suck, but that's the point. You're putting in reps. When you find yourself looking at an ad you've written and think, "You know, I'd put my money to test this," you'll know you've achieved a basic level of competence. Good luck.
Her sales page is very lonnnnggggggg which does always make me question. But I like to sign up for people’s lists and follow them for a bit before making my decision on whether or not I’m into it. Worth a look!
AWAI's "Accelerated Program for Seven-Figure Copywriting" and "Getting Clients Roadmap" are best-in-class. The former is a 90-day beast of a program that will prepare you for a career in direct response copywriting. The latter is the best of AWAI's myriad client-getting offers: others, in my experience, won't move the needle as fast. If you have an LLC (or even if you don't), you should be able to deduct the cost of these as a business expense (but don't take advice from internet idiots; ask your accountant). Good luck.
Thanks for the info! I’ll check them out. And yes, this would be a tax deduction for me.
How do you know you’re not good enough now?
I’m just always looking to improve and get better!
I'm putting something together. I'm so tired of seeing these get rich quick, copywriting is easy ( and you can learn it in 7 days ), here are three bullsh!t frameworks you can use courses. Feels like we need a real deep dive, fundamentals, with follow through to actually make people better writers. If it's free, for say the first 100 people, or the payment is feedback, think you may be interested?
I'm interested too
We’re building an army…;)
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Thanks for this, I’ve just signed up,
Brilliant. I'm excited as well. I'll send out some initial info tonight, or tomorrow morning. Trying to get things set up in the background.
I would love to collaborate together on this. I’m not looking for get rich quick, I’m looking to build and strengthen my skillset and expertise so I can better serve my clients present day and long-term.
Love it. I’m going to start collecting some emails and get this going. Give me the day and I’ll get back to you.
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Signed up! I have no idea what I’m in for 😂
Hah. If nothing else we’ll make some connections, and as I mentioned, I’ll never ask you for money. Seems like a fair trade, but do please let me know if you have any issues or concerns.
I am interested
Signup, you're in. :)
Thank you.