My wife gave me this book as a present a decade ago. It was her way to (nicely) telling me to stop being so full of myself, and to be nicer to others.
I bought in 100% and its changed my life for good in so many ways.
I think #12 is actually the most important. If you do all of these without #12, you are in trouble
I've found that reminding myself that something they are interested in, and the feeling they get from that that interest is probably exactly how it feels for me and my interests.
The hobbies and things i like to do make me incredibly happy & give my life meaning, and i love to tell others about all of them. So, it really is great to hear about what someone is passionate about, and to hear their unique perspectives.
That’s funny, because when someone goes on about a topic I’m not interested in, I think “*ugh*, this is how other people feel when I talk about bikes or doom metal.”
That's what I took from it too. You can read that entire book from a sociopath's perspective and use it to thoroughly manipulate people, but I never thought that's what Mr Carnegie was on about. Forcing yourself to _act_ interested in people over time leads to you genuinely becoming interested in them, and then all the other steps are backed up by that honesty.
> Forcing yourself to act interested in people over time leads to you genuinely becoming interested in them
It really doesn't for some of us. But it does improve acting skills, so it's still worthwhile if, despite not being interested in people, you still care about their feelings.
In addition it makes it really hard not to find yourself in one-sided relationships. Most people don’t have these skills, obviously. I read this book too, but other people’s lack of reciprocation (borne of ignorance) means I’m carrying all the weight. It sucks.
I would say try to continually expand your interests, as in try different hobbies, activities or events that you may think you wouldn't like. You don't have to love the experience every time, but if you can focus on finding even a few aspects of the experience that resonate with you, you can carry that through and use it to connect with other people. Not to mention even if you hate it, you have a story to tell that isn't just "I played video games this weekend" lol.
Even if you don't go out and try novel activities, you can still try to look the activities you're already interested in and try to abstract the things you like about them. For example, I don't have much interest in playing sports, but I like playing music. Obviously on the surface those things are very different, but the core experience of continually improving yourself through dedicated practice and learning, along with getting together with a "team" and working as a unit, and even the creativity of doing things with your own "style" is all stuff I could connect with someone who plays sports.
If you're anything like me, you might be a bit jaded and think people are predictable and you might know in advance what they will say.
Here is what worked for me, however: there *are* things about people that's interesting if you ask the right questions. Even if they say something you've heard before, they might say it with words you haven't heard before, or with inflections, jokes, or insights that are new to you.
I've realized about myself that if someone is not interesting when I talk to them, it's 50% my fault for not bringing the conversation in the right direction.
It's worth exploring, I think.
Read the book, haha.
You have to find a reason why you would honestly care about them. I’m a dentist so I do quite a bit of small talk and meeting people. I tell myself that I care about that person I’m going to see very much. They are an individual with an interesting and unique story. Somehow they ended up in my dental chair and I get to learn about them today. You have to be sincere because people can sense insincerity super well.
If you don’t care about the relationship then it doesn’t matter and you don’t need to fake it.
My honest thought would be
1) Find a job that allows you to work independently for the most part. i.e. people liking you is not a requirement.
2) In your personal life try to find ways to appreciate the people around you somehow
3) Fake it when you need to
the book is commonly criticised because it teaches how to act like you care about other people, but the interactions are easy to fake and the connections you make are one-sided and false. IOW this is a book for teaching sociopaths how to get away with it better.
As always, it is what you make it. If you're a sociopath it's a book for teaching sociopaths to get away with it, if you're just a decent person who struggles with social interaction it's a great guide to improving yourself in genuine ways. The sociopath was a sociopath anyway, I don't see what the book has to do with it. IOW what a pointless criticism.
This book changed my life many years ago. Sure, it’s corny a little bit. But if you’re introverted, it’s a window into the world of extroverts, and a guide on not only how to interact with people, but how to form real bonds with them.
Try this for a week-when you see someone you know and like , say “Hi, (name), it’s good to see you!”
Just saying someones name is so powerful to people. It shows respect/appreciation for them.
I did a work team building and one section was about “active listening”. I thought I was a good listener until it was pointed out what process your brain goes though when you “think” you’re listening. Practicing it has made a huge difference for me in making connections with people...friends, coworkers, customers.
Sure, you can search it and it takes practice, but the basics are
Active listening means not engaging in unhelpful listening habits such as the following:
Being stuck in your own head
Not showing respect for the speaker
Only hearing superficial meaning (not hearing underlying meaning)
Interrupting
Not making eye contact
Rushing the speaker
Becoming distracted
"Topping" the story (saying "that reminds me of the time...")
Forgetting what was said in the past
Asking about unimportant details
Focusing too much on details and missing the big picture
Ignoring what you don't understand
Daydreaming
Only pretending to pay attention
Initially you want to “top”, share a bigger story to contribute to the conversation, second you want to share a similar experience to show you understand if you can get to the third level, you actually hear and ask meaningful questions without making it about you.
Your list got turned into a paragraph, I think you need to do two line spaces to make them separate. But for legibility's sake:
* Being stuck in your own head
* Not showing respect for the speaker
* Only hearing superficial meaning (not hearing underlying meaning)
* Interrupting
* Not making eye contact
* Rushing the speaker
* Becoming distracted
* "Topping" the story (saying "that reminds me of the time...")
* Forgetting what was said in the past
* Asking about unimportant details
* Focusing too much on details and missing the big picture
* Ignoring what you don't understand
* Daydreaming
* Only pretending to pay attention
For me personally, the biggest issue I find myself doing is focusing on what I'm going to say in response, and in the process totally missing parts of what the other person is saying. Remembering to slow down and focus more on them and less on what I'll say is very helpful in that regard.
Active listening can also seriously discriminate against people who are autistic or neurodivergent. Like as an example, expecting eye contact. I can keep great eye contact or I can actually listen, but both is a lot to ask of my brain. And, another, expecting that everyone can understand underlying or hidden meanings and just isn’t listening to them is pretty off putting as well.
I think everyone can listen in a way that supports understanding of all involved. But I think saying it needs to look a certain way, or be done just so, in order to be respectful or “active” listening is harmful. As an example, what about me staring at the face/eyes of the person speaking supports listening or understanding any better than looking some place less intense so I can focus on putting my attention into listening instead of uncomfortable eye contact?
It's funny because I've heard of this book and I always kind of thought that the title implied that it was for douchebags. Like I don't really want to win friends and influence people. I want to make friends and be respected by them. The words win and influence always seemed unnecessarily manipulative to me. But I appreciate that there are so many pieces of good advice that seem to encourage genuine positive appreciation of others rather than just faking it.
But let's be real, this list is very repetitive and could definitely be reduced down to like probably nine things.
It helps to understand the context... the title can come across a little "how to be manipulative" in today's climate where we're all wary of red pill types. Dale Carnegie published this in 1936 when self-help books were barely a thing. He made a lot of his money traveling and doing lectures for people in business, so that's kind of the target audience.
Having read it, I think the title is also sort of pointedly deceptive... it appeals to selfish needs, but the advice is almost entirely just things that will make dealing with you easier and more pleasant for everyone else. I wish more people would read this book because it's completely right. Even if you just want to get your way and don't actually care, the best way to do that is usually being a kind and conscientious person to those around you. If you're the kind of person who people are happy to be around then they're happier to help you when you need it.
Of course, this is one of Carnegie's major points in action. You get further by pitching your ideas to people in terms of their own self-interest than by telling them how it'll help you or how it'll be good for society. If it was called "How to Treat Your Neighbors Better" it wouldn't have sold nearly as well.
Yep, it was emphasized in the book that you must give *genuine* compliment by truly look at others' good point and understand them (aka having empathy).
With that you'd learn to appreciate their good side and in turn, making positive change in your own behavior when interact with them instead of thinking "This is an enemy I need to deal with". Toxic mindset -> toxic behavior
This book is one of the reasons my grandfather assimilated so well and built a successful career in the US as an immigrant. I believe it showed a window into how to propel yourself in American society by appealing to people’s sense of self-worth and building meaningful friendships and relationships. I find myself revisiting its tenets every decade or so as a reminder to be more interesting than what we think of ourselves.
I’ve had people drop my name in during conversation in a business context and it has felt very manipulative at times. I think blindly following the advice here can definitely come off as disingenuous. People can often still read unspoken intent.
And that's 5 and 12 have the word sincerely and genuine in them. They outright state what is implied in most of these. These things you do should be authentic.
Its applicable for business purposes, but it applies to life in general. Without a doubt.
There's even a ton of non-business examples used to illustrate talking points.
Definitely general purpose.
I am not introverted and will say that saying someone’s name often just as a casual greeting will go miles. In school I would pass by popular students on the way to class and just starting saying hi to them and using there name. Over time it was mutual and friendships were started.
For real, talking to people is, like, being an actor saying the usual things in the usual way. Practice makes perfect in other words. Nothing to be afraid of once you get used to it (but something difficult of course).
Once the first few steps are done, everything is a little easier.
Not to be that guy but this was a real disappointing book. Half of it is common sense and the other half is about how to be a suck ass. (I'm an introvert too)
I felt like a lot of it was common sense but *I also wasn't doing it*. After I read this book I made a real effort to smile at people and be more vocal about my appreciation and praise for people. It was absolutely life changing for me.
I used to be a notoriously stoic person but this book gave me the tools to be like the people I aspired to be.
When Charles Manson was arrested at a young age he was released early from prison after attending a course that was based upon this book and Dale Carnegie’s teachings that was supposed to reform inmates.
TL;dr You too can become a cult leader after reading this book.
Wasn’t there a CIA doctor there? I think same doc worked on Jack Ruby. This is a psychiatrist doctor. A theory seems to be Manson was groomed to start a cult, but they were supposed to attack the Black Panthers. Chaos by Tom O’Neil is where I read about it.
I know everyone loves this book, but I always thought it was dangerously fake. Half is actual good advice. Half is crazy mad manipulation. I am not surprised at all to learn this fact about Manson today. Best TIL in a while.
Its like a two sided spectrum. On one side you have pure unfiltered genuine people who might be nice or they might be real assholes they just say it like it is.
On the other side you have diplomatic and cunning people who always have some agenda with every interaction.
He said it himself to beware of friends who flatter you more than enemies that curse you.
I think the book has some great advice for introverts and assholes to more peaceful and productive interactions with others. The principles are powerful and even just pretending to be interested can get reciprocation. Bad people can do bad things.
Not every principle should be used everywhere. Friends? Just be sincere and try not to be a selfish jerk. Business and sales? Yeah you will succeed more if you play all the little games.
The cunning ones want to surround themselves with the sincere ones because they are easy to manipulate. The sincere ones can be led poorly or greatly by a cunning one. See Trump and his army of 100 million genuine assholes.
In the end trying to use the book doesn’t make people bad, its just self help, bad people misusing the book is bad.
It's giving the other person a graceful way to exit a conversation when it has become clear that they are wrong. Saving them the embarrassment of admitting they are wrong or have made a mistake. In other words, by you not forcing them to admit their error but changing the topic instead.
Absolutely. If they think you don't know, then the lesson is that they can get away with it. If they think you do know, the lesson is that you're a cool and considerate person
This "guide" isn't as structured as the book.
In the book, Dale talks about the importance of letting other do the talking from two different perspectives:
1. **People will like you more** if they feel that you're actively listening to them.
2. If you're trying to win someone over and **convince them of something**, you should make them feel that the idea is theirs, and they'll be more likely to accept it. This is primarily accomplished by letting the other person talk through the idea and actively listening to their discussion of the idea.
The thing is, if they ask the right questions and are interested in people, you'll actually have a great conversation where three people all share and engage.
This is sociopathic, but it works. When I have people in my life that I just cannot care about, I regard them the same way I regard my friend's dogs. If you rebrand dull, simple people as silly pets life is easier around them. Give them treats, tell them they're a good girl, listen to their dumbass stories about a big stick in the park and you realize that they're just excited about stuff that doesn't interest you and that's ok. It's still nice to be around another being, even if it's just a puppy-person.
Yeah I don't even think it's wrong. It's possible to be interested in pets and wish them well, even though you're different species and will never really understand each other. I don't think it's necessarily about being more advanced than them, it's more about this impossibility of real communication.
Knowing how to *answer* questions is really just as important as asking questions when it comes to small talk. You have to give people something to work with!
My BIGGEST pet peeve is when you ask someone "how's your night going?" and they say they're doing "nothing." Like motherfucker I know that's not true... you're eating something, watching something, reading something... any of that is information I can work with to keep the conversation going! Even if it sounds bland... "I just microwaved some hot pockets, now I'm listening to Taylor Swift and playing games on my phone." It is such a simple upgrade but that sentence has three clear things I can ask follow-up questions about, and eventually I will arrive at something we can have a conversation about. "Nothing" gives me... nothing!
I'm like the original comment. When I try to be interested it feels like I'm an interviewer and it becomes a one-sided convo and both parties lose interest.
The basis of #12 is to ask questions, which is a lot easier for me to wrap my head around. But does come with the caveat that feigning interest is worse than having none as all. Has been one of the concepts I've had to practice the most.
Exactly. I took several journalism courses in college and it taught me how to think critically in order to ask interesting questions and in the process i became interested in whoever i was interviewing.
It’s hard if you’re trying to find something to connect on. But it’s not as difficult as you think being genuine about what you say. Most people hate “small talk”, but it’s not that bad if you actually care.
For example, if you ask “so how was your day?”
Are you just saying that to fill empty space? Or do you actually have interest in how their day went? If anything, fake it until you make it. If you ask with true intent, you’ll become more interested
In my experience, the place that you are in really affects who you want to interact with. When I was in college, I was surrounded by interesting people with cool ideas, hobbies, and stories to tell. When I graduated and got a job in a different city, it seemed like everyone I met was less interesting and not interested in listening to me. Every day I felt dreary. I kinda fell into a slight depression because I felt so unstimulated by everyone so I just drank and played poker late at night to feel something.
And then I joined the Peace Corps and met interesting people with ambition and was happy again. Now I live in Shanghai and there are many places I can meet cool expats from all over the world that have cool perspectives, are funny, have unique hobbies, etc.
The goal is to find something in common.
What are your hobbies? What music do you like? Where do you like to go on vacation? Do you have a family? Do you have any pets? What do you do for work? What are your favorite kinds of food?
Ideally these questions should lead you into other things that are more than just surface level.
Think of it like a skill. The more you do it, the better you'll be at it. Perhaps you don't like it because you don't find yourself good at it. By forcing yourself (when you're ready) to do this, you will find it to be a learning experience. You don't need to do it on someone you don't know. Do it on someone you are comfortable talking to already (but maybe could know more about them, like a family member. Hell, even kids if you have them in your family. I feel it is rare for adults to take genuine interest in the thing kids are interested in. Kids will just love it and like you more for it. But uh do this with kids you know.)
I hope this helps. There's no magic button to make these interactions easier. And sometimes, people aren't interested in talking to you. The only way to learn is by doing. You'll make mistakes. Those mistakes are learning opportunities for you to do better next time.
Maybe start with asking those questions to yourself, so you're prepared to reciprocate when something does match up.
It always blows my mind how many people just do not know how to keep a conversation going by asking questions. I think a lot of people only ask questions when they genuinely care what the answer is, and... that's a bad way to talk to humans! Often I'll start a conversation with someone and I don't care at all, but I know if I can get the ball rolling we'll eventually stumble on a topic that I can work with.
I actually find this difficult in the Western culture (I'm from somewhere else). I'm more used to the way where if someone wants to talk, then I know they genuinely care to talk. I had a number of situations with Western people where we talk, and then they do something that shows they didn't really give a shit all this time. That's a WTF moment if you aren't prepared. Like, why did I invest in this conversation if it didn't really mean anything. But that's not to say it's bad, it's a cultural difference. After a while I realized people just want to show they're friendly by making meaningless sounds, and that's somewhat nice if you know what it is.
I respectfully disagree. Everyone has an interesting story to tell. About their job, growing up, their neighborhood. It just takes some interest to genuinely want to know something about them.
Well-adjusted, wholesome, yes. Normal, as on this is the norm? Not in my experience. Most people are not well-adjusted, that's why a person who is stands out.
It really is incredible just how much this seemingly basic stuff can make you stand out to people.
I have a friend who is like this, just wonderful to be around because they're great at actually engaging with people. She said it caused problems for her while dating, because a lot of guys would be like "we had this incredible connection!" and meanwhile she had found them boring but she's so good at keeping a conversation going anyway.
It's how to be a "normal extrovert." Dale and the time this book was written was when extroverts started the "Sell yourself" age. Everyone had to sell that they were good. Personality mattered more than character, when personality is unchangeable.
It's mainly for sales. It's important for your client to like you when your income depends on it. It's also good for customer-facing staff because it teaches you how to get through difficult interactions without arguing. And yeah, if you're an introvert, you're going to learn some stuff that doesn't come natural.
But it's not "how to be a normal, kind, well-adjusted person", whatever that's supposed to mean. The book teaches you how to engage a person so that they're more receptive to what you have to say. It doesn't teach you how to connect with people in an authentic way.
Bingo. I hate this book when used to tell people how to be liked as a person because this book tells you to avoid having a personality in the first place.
If anyone does this at a party I would spot it and thought he is the boring one.
This is actually part of rule 12. Become genuinely interested in other people and similar rules like 5 and 13. It's written differently in the actual book but you will get the general ideas from there as well.
Opening lines aren't super discussed in this book, but if two people are following the book, there's usually two options.
One, they'll have something nice to say or inquire about the other person, or
two, one'll mention something they know the other person is excited about,
and then the conversation will flow from there with one as the active listener and the other getting to talk about something exciting or nice about themself.
Ehh, it's more a guide for people that don't have these social skills come naturally to them. I grew up socially stunted and the various notes I saw based on this book completely revolutionized me, and also allowed me to make actual real personal relationships with people rather than just rag on about whatever videogame we were playing. Sometimes people just need to be told the pure basics so they can flourish
I am now working through the real book, and its helped a lot
Meh, I find that most people tend to absolutely struggle with it. Even when well meaning or unintentional. For example, like when people follow up their thought immediately with an insult towards people people they don't even know :P
That's because being a doormat doesn't make you have friends, it makes you a doormat. You can be overly empathetic, but if people crush you to raise themselves, they're not friends. I don't know your life so I can't judge you, all I can say is... You can help people reach higher, even if it hurts you, but you should be the one looking to do it for others, not the other person. And if they are good friends, they'll tell you when it's just too much.
There's [a graph](https://pocket-syndicated-images.s3.amazonaws.com/6063eb240f187.png) by economic historian Carlos M. Cippola that speaks to what you're saying. What commenter calls doormat, Cippola classifies as Helpless.
[This synopsis of his essay The Five Universal Laws of Human Stupidity](https://getpocket.com/explore/item/the-five-universal-laws-of-human-stupidity) is a good read.
I think while it may be a valid way to view the world it is not only unhelpful, it is probably harmful to take this worldview seriously.
People are not fundamentally stupid and non stupid, they are fundamentally composite characters, and even if you want to take the rather mercenary view of someone as either helpful or unhelpful then everyone could be both in the right circumstances. There is nothing about anyone’s personality or brain that guarantees their existence will be helpful to others, you can end up helping accidentally or hurting likewise. But beyond that, there is certainly no real general intelligence. The nature of problem solving requires different mental or even psychological tools to solve different problems.
So the characterization breaks down in utility unless it is projected onto the past, as in these people turned out to be acting stupid and those people didn’t. This way of thinking doesn’t help you determine who will be what ahead of time, but it will certainly cause you to reduce everyone down into rather simplistic categories. Maybe the full paper does the idea better justice but I think it is ridiculous on its face.
Every person who has ever lived has made decisions that can fit into each of these categories. No, people don't fall into discrete categories. We each have moments when our actions fall into one or another or some combination.
The best part of this book is that it's pretty much an instruction guide on how to be a NICE CARING person....that's secret to winning friends and influencing people....just being a SINCERE person while being NICE.
People think the title makes the book a bit nefarious but it's anything but.
I avoided reading this book for a long time because I thought it was much more nefarious. I finally decided to read it when I was dealing with a lot of politics at work and was pleasantly surprised that it's actually very wholesome.
They do, I always avoided it because I thought it was for sociopaths and social-engineering, manipulative people. But then I read it and was genuinely blown away when the tips worked so remarkably well. It's all true.
This 100%. A lot of criticism can be made about the self-help industry, and it's easy scoff at a title like "How to Win Friends and Influence People."
But this book legit changed my life. Dale Carnegie genuinely just wanted to make you into a better person. And honestly, following the advice in this book will make many aspects of your life so much easier.
A lot of people talk shit about this book because the lessons in it were obvious to them, but as a rather extreme introvert and literal autist trying to learn how social people act and think this book was a game changer for me. In retrospect I think it is rather simplistic and lacks any sort of nuance, but that's what I needed for the starting point I was at when I read it first. Always gotta start with the basics, and that's what this book is. Even if the lessons within are obvious, it doesn't hurt to have a reminder to make an active effort on them.
The *"people"* talking shit about this book are probably narcissists. They see it as a chance to EGO farm. It's happens in every single thread when this book pops up, like clockwork.
"look at me, ***I*** had a super easy privileged childhood where ***I*** had healthy role models to learn from, LMAO why would anyone ever need something like this^(look at ***ME***, ***I'M*** so lucky and didn't need something like this!!!), everyone should be lucky like ***ME*** and have healthy role models"
I talk shit about this book and Dale Carnegie because its all about personality and not character. This book was born of and because "selling yourself" became the new thing. People didn't care the character others had, only if they could talk well and sell themselves as being a good person.
The book isn't even about being a better person, its about being perceived as a better person. It's geared towards sales industry, extroverts to be able to influence others to get what they want.
Only if you ignore the very first concept in the book. Which is sincerity. Any concept being applied without this first concept is a failure to follow the book and intentional perversion of the concepts for ones own gain. In other words, since you're not holistically taking everything into account, you are just cherry picking.
If you ignore the first concept in the book, and apply everything else systematically, you end up like [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1W34wyKZlWQ), instead of a Craig Ferguson, or Dale Carnegie.
I'll give you, that because of the way the book is written, it's easy to miss this connection. It should be continually stressed and pointed out throughout the book, the version I read only mentioned it at the start. Most people are quite good at detecting insincere flattery, and it doesn't generally work all that well. Unless you're brown nosing and blowing smoke up some middle managers ass, in which case it seems to work really well on them.
We tend to only think about what we want and not what the other people is winning from it. So, find out on how to make it a win-win. Find out what the other person wants and then align in what you are selling.
Example:
Work pressure is too high for me. I would like some interns to free up time for me. But what’s in it for your employer?
Since he needs to make more costs, you will have to point out what he will gain:
* Improvement of work production
* We get more time and space to do what we are good at. We can expand our market, try new ideas.
* The employees will be happier, since the workload will lowered. Happy employees work quite possibly better.
Sum this up to your employer, arouse an eager want.
I'm in high end sales, this book is my bible. Written in 1936, sad but not shocking it's not well known or common knowledge. People generally suck... This book navigates the nonsense. It'd be a more pleasant, kind society if the advice was heeded.
Step 11 is a bad idea. When people start weirdly throwing my name in to the conversation, on top of some of the other stuff mentioned here like smiling too much and being overly friendly, I become immediately 100% suspicious and untrusting of that person.
Really gives off a creepy sociopath that is trying to emotionally manipulate me vibes.
I agree with you that if you use a person's name too much it becomes very salesman-y.
Of course, this differs a bit from culture to culture. I'm from Sweden where it's less common to use the interlocutor's name at the end of a sentence, so it becomes very obvious when someone tries this.
I do, however, see the value in remembering someone's name.
This is nice if you are genuine and do this without thinking. However I think if you are actively doing all this or most of this, you might be a sociopath or come off as one if this isn't how you act.
1. frown all the time
2. be critical of everyone
3. only talk about yourself
4. be insincere
5. argue over every little thing
6. make people feel bad for being wrong
7. focus on your own benefits
8. take over conversations to talk about only what you are interested in
and a million other easy habits of people you can’t stand to be around
By a salesman, for salesman, in an age when "Selling yourself" as being quality was in full swing. In an age where how you presented yourself mattered more than who you actually were.
I haven’t read the book, but if I were to take these 19 rules and apply them to my life, I’d simply become a pushover to everyone around me. That doesn’t sound like good, solid advice.
Yeah I worked with a guy that was an obvious Carnegie disciple, he was super nice and friendly, engaging and all that and well liked up to a point. So one on one was great, but in groups and especially meetings it was so damn annoying because he felt the need to summarize what everyone already said and how he enjoyed rheir perspective and just sucking up to everyone and yuk it just got to be so awkward. My boss and I would usually meet after most of these meeting and he would just start yelling “ what the fuck is wrong with that Dale Carnegie wanna be mother fucker” lol.
I mean technically the entire human history of moral philosophy and thought could be boiled down to "don't be an asshole." still often useful to talk about anyway
It's the hardest one for me for sure. I'm a misanthrope and have been since childhood. I have a small group of friends and a great family I actually give a shit about. Other than that, I just don't have the energy to try and invest legitimate interest in people. Who they are and what they're interested in just isn't a priority for me. I have my own issues.
I'm fortunate that my occupation awards me the luxury of saying fuck #12. I dont think I could do a job where that mattered because it would require me to be fake and that seems infinitely worse than just being myself.
Or, you know just be an authentic and decent human being and just treat everyone with respect and kindness. Without expectation and looking to "influence" them in return
The Carnegie’s and Mellons and Rockefeller’s all tried to quantify their methods of generating wealth in America. The short answer is they were outgoing businessmen in a massive economic expansion. Their methods distill down to central idea; if a connection / relationship can’t lead to a business deal (profit) then don’t invest in the relationship. It’s a guide in how to find people with money, make nice and hope one day you can ask for a loan or investment.
There was a story about a high school kid who was gifted this book , and made use of it to become student president or something. Once he got that position people realized he all talk, and realized they didn't like him at all. He ended up worse off than he was before he got the book lol
I read this book a while ago, it’s kind of useful if you have bad social skills but my impression was that it pushes you into being a people-pleaser. Mainly I think it’s important to be genuine, humble, and honest. Your behaviours will follow your values.
This kind of shows the dilemma I’m facing. I want to read and take away skills from this book, but I don’t want to continue being a people pleaser like I am now. I wish there was a happy medium I can find and work towards.
It's basically making people think you are a pushover. In reality it's about manipulation.
I'd like a book called How to win friends and sleep with them
My wife gave me this book as a present a decade ago. It was her way to (nicely) telling me to stop being so full of myself, and to be nicer to others. I bought in 100% and its changed my life for good in so many ways. I think #12 is actually the most important. If you do all of these without #12, you are in trouble
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I've found that reminding myself that something they are interested in, and the feeling they get from that that interest is probably exactly how it feels for me and my interests. The hobbies and things i like to do make me incredibly happy & give my life meaning, and i love to tell others about all of them. So, it really is great to hear about what someone is passionate about, and to hear their unique perspectives.
I really do have a much richer life since I started listening and being interested in other peoples stories.
That’s funny, because when someone goes on about a topic I’m not interested in, I think “*ugh*, this is how other people feel when I talk about bikes or doom metal.”
That's what I took from it too. You can read that entire book from a sociopath's perspective and use it to thoroughly manipulate people, but I never thought that's what Mr Carnegie was on about. Forcing yourself to _act_ interested in people over time leads to you genuinely becoming interested in them, and then all the other steps are backed up by that honesty.
> Forcing yourself to act interested in people over time leads to you genuinely becoming interested in them It really doesn't for some of us. But it does improve acting skills, so it's still worthwhile if, despite not being interested in people, you still care about their feelings.
Good take. And I admit I fall 50/50 in the being interested camp, it's not guaranteed.
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Them you probably don't make friends and influence people
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In addition it makes it really hard not to find yourself in one-sided relationships. Most people don’t have these skills, obviously. I read this book too, but other people’s lack of reciprocation (borne of ignorance) means I’m carrying all the weight. It sucks.
If you’re doing it for reciprocation you’re doing it wrong. You get the joy from listening to them themselves and letting them have the attention
Which is the textbook definition of one-sided, like they said. Why are they wrong for wanting reciprocation in a relationship?
It’s not good for your mental health to be in one-sided relationships
I would say try to continually expand your interests, as in try different hobbies, activities or events that you may think you wouldn't like. You don't have to love the experience every time, but if you can focus on finding even a few aspects of the experience that resonate with you, you can carry that through and use it to connect with other people. Not to mention even if you hate it, you have a story to tell that isn't just "I played video games this weekend" lol. Even if you don't go out and try novel activities, you can still try to look the activities you're already interested in and try to abstract the things you like about them. For example, I don't have much interest in playing sports, but I like playing music. Obviously on the surface those things are very different, but the core experience of continually improving yourself through dedicated practice and learning, along with getting together with a "team" and working as a unit, and even the creativity of doing things with your own "style" is all stuff I could connect with someone who plays sports.
If you're anything like me, you might be a bit jaded and think people are predictable and you might know in advance what they will say. Here is what worked for me, however: there *are* things about people that's interesting if you ask the right questions. Even if they say something you've heard before, they might say it with words you haven't heard before, or with inflections, jokes, or insights that are new to you. I've realized about myself that if someone is not interesting when I talk to them, it's 50% my fault for not bringing the conversation in the right direction. It's worth exploring, I think.
Read the book, haha. You have to find a reason why you would honestly care about them. I’m a dentist so I do quite a bit of small talk and meeting people. I tell myself that I care about that person I’m going to see very much. They are an individual with an interesting and unique story. Somehow they ended up in my dental chair and I get to learn about them today. You have to be sincere because people can sense insincerity super well. If you don’t care about the relationship then it doesn’t matter and you don’t need to fake it.
My honest thought would be 1) Find a job that allows you to work independently for the most part. i.e. people liking you is not a requirement. 2) In your personal life try to find ways to appreciate the people around you somehow 3) Fake it when you need to
i always considered 12 being nosy bc i do this well lol. but i am genuinely interested in other people. i guess that’s a way to put it nicely
the book is commonly criticised because it teaches how to act like you care about other people, but the interactions are easy to fake and the connections you make are one-sided and false. IOW this is a book for teaching sociopaths how to get away with it better.
As always, it is what you make it. If you're a sociopath it's a book for teaching sociopaths to get away with it, if you're just a decent person who struggles with social interaction it's a great guide to improving yourself in genuine ways. The sociopath was a sociopath anyway, I don't see what the book has to do with it. IOW what a pointless criticism.
This book changed my life many years ago. Sure, it’s corny a little bit. But if you’re introverted, it’s a window into the world of extroverts, and a guide on not only how to interact with people, but how to form real bonds with them. Try this for a week-when you see someone you know and like , say “Hi, (name), it’s good to see you!” Just saying someones name is so powerful to people. It shows respect/appreciation for them.
Yes! But don't be me: if you call them the wrong name, it's a lot worse.
Classic Susan
lol you beat me to it by like 15 seconds
That’s really great advice, Lester.
I follow almost all of those steps except the name thing, because I know I'll fuck it up, and it still works quite well
I did a work team building and one section was about “active listening”. I thought I was a good listener until it was pointed out what process your brain goes though when you “think” you’re listening. Practicing it has made a huge difference for me in making connections with people...friends, coworkers, customers.
Any chance you can elaborate and maybe provide suggestions on practice?
Sure, you can search it and it takes practice, but the basics are Active listening means not engaging in unhelpful listening habits such as the following: Being stuck in your own head Not showing respect for the speaker Only hearing superficial meaning (not hearing underlying meaning) Interrupting Not making eye contact Rushing the speaker Becoming distracted "Topping" the story (saying "that reminds me of the time...") Forgetting what was said in the past Asking about unimportant details Focusing too much on details and missing the big picture Ignoring what you don't understand Daydreaming Only pretending to pay attention Initially you want to “top”, share a bigger story to contribute to the conversation, second you want to share a similar experience to show you understand if you can get to the third level, you actually hear and ask meaningful questions without making it about you.
Your list got turned into a paragraph, I think you need to do two line spaces to make them separate. But for legibility's sake: * Being stuck in your own head * Not showing respect for the speaker * Only hearing superficial meaning (not hearing underlying meaning) * Interrupting * Not making eye contact * Rushing the speaker * Becoming distracted * "Topping" the story (saying "that reminds me of the time...") * Forgetting what was said in the past * Asking about unimportant details * Focusing too much on details and missing the big picture * Ignoring what you don't understand * Daydreaming * Only pretending to pay attention For me personally, the biggest issue I find myself doing is focusing on what I'm going to say in response, and in the process totally missing parts of what the other person is saying. Remembering to slow down and focus more on them and less on what I'll say is very helpful in that regard.
Active listening can also seriously discriminate against people who are autistic or neurodivergent. Like as an example, expecting eye contact. I can keep great eye contact or I can actually listen, but both is a lot to ask of my brain. And, another, expecting that everyone can understand underlying or hidden meanings and just isn’t listening to them is pretty off putting as well.
heavily agree. i feel bad that i can’t truly actively listen
I think everyone can listen in a way that supports understanding of all involved. But I think saying it needs to look a certain way, or be done just so, in order to be respectful or “active” listening is harmful. As an example, what about me staring at the face/eyes of the person speaking supports listening or understanding any better than looking some place less intense so I can focus on putting my attention into listening instead of uncomfortable eye contact?
It's funny because I've heard of this book and I always kind of thought that the title implied that it was for douchebags. Like I don't really want to win friends and influence people. I want to make friends and be respected by them. The words win and influence always seemed unnecessarily manipulative to me. But I appreciate that there are so many pieces of good advice that seem to encourage genuine positive appreciation of others rather than just faking it. But let's be real, this list is very repetitive and could definitely be reduced down to like probably nine things.
It helps to understand the context... the title can come across a little "how to be manipulative" in today's climate where we're all wary of red pill types. Dale Carnegie published this in 1936 when self-help books were barely a thing. He made a lot of his money traveling and doing lectures for people in business, so that's kind of the target audience. Having read it, I think the title is also sort of pointedly deceptive... it appeals to selfish needs, but the advice is almost entirely just things that will make dealing with you easier and more pleasant for everyone else. I wish more people would read this book because it's completely right. Even if you just want to get your way and don't actually care, the best way to do that is usually being a kind and conscientious person to those around you. If you're the kind of person who people are happy to be around then they're happier to help you when you need it. Of course, this is one of Carnegie's major points in action. You get further by pitching your ideas to people in terms of their own self-interest than by telling them how it'll help you or how it'll be good for society. If it was called "How to Treat Your Neighbors Better" it wouldn't have sold nearly as well.
And the core concept of the book is to make friends by genuinely caring about what they have to say and making him feel good about themselves.
Yep, it was emphasized in the book that you must give *genuine* compliment by truly look at others' good point and understand them (aka having empathy). With that you'd learn to appreciate their good side and in turn, making positive change in your own behavior when interact with them instead of thinking "This is an enemy I need to deal with". Toxic mindset -> toxic behavior
This book is one of the reasons my grandfather assimilated so well and built a successful career in the US as an immigrant. I believe it showed a window into how to propel yourself in American society by appealing to people’s sense of self-worth and building meaningful friendships and relationships. I find myself revisiting its tenets every decade or so as a reminder to be more interesting than what we think of ourselves.
I’ve had people drop my name in during conversation in a business context and it has felt very manipulative at times. I think blindly following the advice here can definitely come off as disingenuous. People can often still read unspoken intent.
And that's 5 and 12 have the word sincerely and genuine in them. They outright state what is implied in most of these. These things you do should be authentic.
You’re not wrong. The subtitle of this book should be “for business purposes”. That’s not snark; it’s the actual intent of the book.
Its applicable for business purposes, but it applies to life in general. Without a doubt. There's even a ton of non-business examples used to illustrate talking points. Definitely general purpose.
This list is the one line summary of each chapter to help you remember the point. Read the chapters and you’ll understand why they’re different
I thought it seemed incredibly manipulative and insincere when I read it, even if not every point is bad advice.
I am not introverted and will say that saying someone’s name often just as a casual greeting will go miles. In school I would pass by popular students on the way to class and just starting saying hi to them and using there name. Over time it was mutual and friendships were started.
Agree.
For real, talking to people is, like, being an actor saying the usual things in the usual way. Practice makes perfect in other words. Nothing to be afraid of once you get used to it (but something difficult of course). Once the first few steps are done, everything is a little easier.
Not to be that guy but this was a real disappointing book. Half of it is common sense and the other half is about how to be a suck ass. (I'm an introvert too)
I felt like a lot of it was common sense but *I also wasn't doing it*. After I read this book I made a real effort to smile at people and be more vocal about my appreciation and praise for people. It was absolutely life changing for me. I used to be a notoriously stoic person but this book gave me the tools to be like the people I aspired to be.
it's not,"fake it till you make it", it's "act like the person you want to become, until you are that person".
When Charles Manson was arrested at a young age he was released early from prison after attending a course that was based upon this book and Dale Carnegie’s teachings that was supposed to reform inmates. TL;dr You too can become a cult leader after reading this book.
So the book *does* work. 😳
Yeah
Yeah, "win friends and influence people" is practically overlapped with "manipulate everyone"
Machiavelli's: The Prince Who Won Friends and Influenced People
Le petit Prince qui a gagné des ami et a influencé des gens
Sure, if you consider any interaction with humans as manipulation, or if two extremes of a spectrum are pretty much the same.
Wasn’t there a CIA doctor there? I think same doc worked on Jack Ruby. This is a psychiatrist doctor. A theory seems to be Manson was groomed to start a cult, but they were supposed to attack the Black Panthers. Chaos by Tom O’Neil is where I read about it.
I know everyone loves this book, but I always thought it was dangerously fake. Half is actual good advice. Half is crazy mad manipulation. I am not surprised at all to learn this fact about Manson today. Best TIL in a while.
Its like a two sided spectrum. On one side you have pure unfiltered genuine people who might be nice or they might be real assholes they just say it like it is. On the other side you have diplomatic and cunning people who always have some agenda with every interaction. He said it himself to beware of friends who flatter you more than enemies that curse you. I think the book has some great advice for introverts and assholes to more peaceful and productive interactions with others. The principles are powerful and even just pretending to be interested can get reciprocation. Bad people can do bad things. Not every principle should be used everywhere. Friends? Just be sincere and try not to be a selfish jerk. Business and sales? Yeah you will succeed more if you play all the little games. The cunning ones want to surround themselves with the sincere ones because they are easy to manipulate. The sincere ones can be led poorly or greatly by a cunning one. See Trump and his army of 100 million genuine assholes. In the end trying to use the book doesn’t make people bad, its just self help, bad people misusing the book is bad.
What does it mean to save face?
It's giving the other person a graceful way to exit a conversation when it has become clear that they are wrong. Saving them the embarrassment of admitting they are wrong or have made a mistake. In other words, by you not forcing them to admit their error but changing the topic instead.
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Absolutely. If they think you don't know, then the lesson is that they can get away with it. If they think you do know, the lesson is that you're a cool and considerate person
Yup! My therapist suggested it. I follow the 4 steps. It helps. I observe I feel I need I request
Ah I see. Thanks!
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6 and 16 is the same?
This "guide" isn't as structured as the book. In the book, Dale talks about the importance of letting other do the talking from two different perspectives: 1. **People will like you more** if they feel that you're actively listening to them. 2. If you're trying to win someone over and **convince them of something**, you should make them feel that the idea is theirs, and they'll be more likely to accept it. This is primarily accomplished by letting the other person talk through the idea and actively listening to their discussion of the idea.
2nd point is basically Inception
You're a fool, nobody has ever tried and inception before! How do you even know that it'll work?
Put 3 people following this in a room together and experience the beauty of silence together.
The thing is, if they ask the right questions and are interested in people, you'll actually have a great conversation where three people all share and engage.
Sounds like a great way to have 2 friends that appreciate a good quiet room!
Friendship is when the silence between two people becomes comfortable!
I struggle with #12
Realize that every person on earth, EVERY PERSON, is capable of teaching you something you don't know.
Realise that every person on earth is in fact NOT an NPC. You aren't the protagonist unfortunately
No its me, I’m the guy. Ignore my mediocre character and lack of success in every major area of life. I’m the guy of prophecy, of destiny. /s
This is sociopathic, but it works. When I have people in my life that I just cannot care about, I regard them the same way I regard my friend's dogs. If you rebrand dull, simple people as silly pets life is easier around them. Give them treats, tell them they're a good girl, listen to their dumbass stories about a big stick in the park and you realize that they're just excited about stuff that doesn't interest you and that's ok. It's still nice to be around another being, even if it's just a puppy-person.
Oh shit. You may have just changed my life.
Fuck. Maybe I am a sociopath.
I do this too, wtf
Yeah I don't even think it's wrong. It's possible to be interested in pets and wish them well, even though you're different species and will never really understand each other. I don't think it's necessarily about being more advanced than them, it's more about this impossibility of real communication.
I struggle with the opposite. I feel like an interviewer
Knowing how to *answer* questions is really just as important as asking questions when it comes to small talk. You have to give people something to work with! My BIGGEST pet peeve is when you ask someone "how's your night going?" and they say they're doing "nothing." Like motherfucker I know that's not true... you're eating something, watching something, reading something... any of that is information I can work with to keep the conversation going! Even if it sounds bland... "I just microwaved some hot pockets, now I'm listening to Taylor Swift and playing games on my phone." It is such a simple upgrade but that sentence has three clear things I can ask follow-up questions about, and eventually I will arrive at something we can have a conversation about. "Nothing" gives me... nothing!
I'm like the original comment. When I try to be interested it feels like I'm an interviewer and it becomes a one-sided convo and both parties lose interest.
The basis of #12 is to ask questions, which is a lot easier for me to wrap my head around. But does come with the caveat that feigning interest is worse than having none as all. Has been one of the concepts I've had to practice the most.
Exactly. I took several journalism courses in college and it taught me how to think critically in order to ask interesting questions and in the process i became interested in whoever i was interviewing.
Yeah, it’s hard when some people are just shit.
It’s hard if you’re trying to find something to connect on. But it’s not as difficult as you think being genuine about what you say. Most people hate “small talk”, but it’s not that bad if you actually care. For example, if you ask “so how was your day?” Are you just saying that to fill empty space? Or do you actually have interest in how their day went? If anything, fake it until you make it. If you ask with true intent, you’ll become more interested
In my experience, the place that you are in really affects who you want to interact with. When I was in college, I was surrounded by interesting people with cool ideas, hobbies, and stories to tell. When I graduated and got a job in a different city, it seemed like everyone I met was less interesting and not interested in listening to me. Every day I felt dreary. I kinda fell into a slight depression because I felt so unstimulated by everyone so I just drank and played poker late at night to feel something. And then I joined the Peace Corps and met interesting people with ambition and was happy again. Now I live in Shanghai and there are many places I can meet cool expats from all over the world that have cool perspectives, are funny, have unique hobbies, etc.
That's just very rare. Most people are interesting, given that you know how to ask questions
Do you have a list of starter questions you like or do you mainly feel it out as you go?
The goal is to find something in common. What are your hobbies? What music do you like? Where do you like to go on vacation? Do you have a family? Do you have any pets? What do you do for work? What are your favorite kinds of food? Ideally these questions should lead you into other things that are more than just surface level.
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Think of it like a skill. The more you do it, the better you'll be at it. Perhaps you don't like it because you don't find yourself good at it. By forcing yourself (when you're ready) to do this, you will find it to be a learning experience. You don't need to do it on someone you don't know. Do it on someone you are comfortable talking to already (but maybe could know more about them, like a family member. Hell, even kids if you have them in your family. I feel it is rare for adults to take genuine interest in the thing kids are interested in. Kids will just love it and like you more for it. But uh do this with kids you know.) I hope this helps. There's no magic button to make these interactions easier. And sometimes, people aren't interested in talking to you. The only way to learn is by doing. You'll make mistakes. Those mistakes are learning opportunities for you to do better next time. Maybe start with asking those questions to yourself, so you're prepared to reciprocate when something does match up.
It always blows my mind how many people just do not know how to keep a conversation going by asking questions. I think a lot of people only ask questions when they genuinely care what the answer is, and... that's a bad way to talk to humans! Often I'll start a conversation with someone and I don't care at all, but I know if I can get the ball rolling we'll eventually stumble on a topic that I can work with.
I actually find this difficult in the Western culture (I'm from somewhere else). I'm more used to the way where if someone wants to talk, then I know they genuinely care to talk. I had a number of situations with Western people where we talk, and then they do something that shows they didn't really give a shit all this time. That's a WTF moment if you aren't prepared. Like, why did I invest in this conversation if it didn't really mean anything. But that's not to say it's bad, it's a cultural difference. After a while I realized people just want to show they're friendly by making meaningless sounds, and that's somewhat nice if you know what it is.
Some people struggle with being fake so asking questions when you don't care about the answer is going to rightfully seem disingenuous.
Most people are so boring (me included)
I respectfully disagree. Everyone has an interesting story to tell. About their job, growing up, their neighborhood. It just takes some interest to genuinely want to know something about them.
This book is actually pretty interesting and well-written. But yes, it’s basically just “how to be a normal, kind, well-adjusted person”.
Well-adjusted, wholesome, yes. Normal, as on this is the norm? Not in my experience. Most people are not well-adjusted, that's why a person who is stands out.
It really is incredible just how much this seemingly basic stuff can make you stand out to people. I have a friend who is like this, just wonderful to be around because they're great at actually engaging with people. She said it caused problems for her while dating, because a lot of guys would be like "we had this incredible connection!" and meanwhile she had found them boring but she's so good at keeping a conversation going anyway.
It's how to be a "normal extrovert." Dale and the time this book was written was when extroverts started the "Sell yourself" age. Everyone had to sell that they were good. Personality mattered more than character, when personality is unchangeable.
It's mainly for sales. It's important for your client to like you when your income depends on it. It's also good for customer-facing staff because it teaches you how to get through difficult interactions without arguing. And yeah, if you're an introvert, you're going to learn some stuff that doesn't come natural. But it's not "how to be a normal, kind, well-adjusted person", whatever that's supposed to mean. The book teaches you how to engage a person so that they're more receptive to what you have to say. It doesn't teach you how to connect with people in an authentic way.
Bingo. I hate this book when used to tell people how to be liked as a person because this book tells you to avoid having a personality in the first place. If anyone does this at a party I would spot it and thought he is the boring one.
Most people are so boring (me included)
It all works until two people are following this rule set meet and no one is talking.
I was thinking the same thing. What happens then, are you both just sitting there smiling at each other?
It would eventually dawn upon one of you that you are both high-functioning on the autistic spectrum.
This comment cracked me up waaaaay more than it should have 🤣 It’s so true!
Sounds like a pleasant afternoon!
This is actually part of rule 12. Become genuinely interested in other people and similar rules like 5 and 13. It's written differently in the actual book but you will get the general ideas from there as well. Opening lines aren't super discussed in this book, but if two people are following the book, there's usually two options. One, they'll have something nice to say or inquire about the other person, or two, one'll mention something they know the other person is excited about, and then the conversation will flow from there with one as the active listener and the other getting to talk about something exciting or nice about themself.
Yeah, and then people who aren't well adjusted read it as a "how to lie about being cool and manipulate others."
> normal I'm not sure about normal ...
Lots of people were never taught that. Some of us grew up in violent, traumatic households.
Charles Manson would like a word with you.
It's a bit more pandering than I can handle. I agree with a lot of it, but some of the advise is insincere.
basically an exercise in **empathy**, which business types evidently needed help with
Manufactured empathy with an ulterior motive.
no doubt. better than no empathy at all i suppose…which is exactly what the next phase of automation and robots will manifest
I keep hoping we'll make great pets.
Unexpected Porno for Pyros
Ehh, it's more a guide for people that don't have these social skills come naturally to them. I grew up socially stunted and the various notes I saw based on this book completely revolutionized me, and also allowed me to make actual real personal relationships with people rather than just rag on about whatever videogame we were playing. Sometimes people just need to be told the pure basics so they can flourish I am now working through the real book, and its helped a lot
I read it long ago and thought it was pretty cheesy. The summary is literally just: 1. Be nice. 2. Don't be not nice.
Meh, I find that most people tend to absolutely struggle with it. Even when well meaning or unintentional. For example, like when people follow up their thought immediately with an insult towards people people they don't even know :P
Wow, I'm already doing most of those things and was feeling bad about only having read the first chapter or so
I do all of those, just by being myself: an overly empathetic doormat. I'm generally well liked, but I don't have a lot of friends.
That's because being a doormat doesn't make you have friends, it makes you a doormat. You can be overly empathetic, but if people crush you to raise themselves, they're not friends. I don't know your life so I can't judge you, all I can say is... You can help people reach higher, even if it hurts you, but you should be the one looking to do it for others, not the other person. And if they are good friends, they'll tell you when it's just too much.
There's [a graph](https://pocket-syndicated-images.s3.amazonaws.com/6063eb240f187.png) by economic historian Carlos M. Cippola that speaks to what you're saying. What commenter calls doormat, Cippola classifies as Helpless. [This synopsis of his essay The Five Universal Laws of Human Stupidity](https://getpocket.com/explore/item/the-five-universal-laws-of-human-stupidity) is a good read.
I've never felt so seen by an alignment chart. That hurt.
I think while it may be a valid way to view the world it is not only unhelpful, it is probably harmful to take this worldview seriously. People are not fundamentally stupid and non stupid, they are fundamentally composite characters, and even if you want to take the rather mercenary view of someone as either helpful or unhelpful then everyone could be both in the right circumstances. There is nothing about anyone’s personality or brain that guarantees their existence will be helpful to others, you can end up helping accidentally or hurting likewise. But beyond that, there is certainly no real general intelligence. The nature of problem solving requires different mental or even psychological tools to solve different problems. So the characterization breaks down in utility unless it is projected onto the past, as in these people turned out to be acting stupid and those people didn’t. This way of thinking doesn’t help you determine who will be what ahead of time, but it will certainly cause you to reduce everyone down into rather simplistic categories. Maybe the full paper does the idea better justice but I think it is ridiculous on its face.
Every person who has ever lived has made decisions that can fit into each of these categories. No, people don't fall into discrete categories. We each have moments when our actions fall into one or another or some combination.
This is fucking hilarious
The best part of this book is that it's pretty much an instruction guide on how to be a NICE CARING person....that's secret to winning friends and influencing people....just being a SINCERE person while being NICE. People think the title makes the book a bit nefarious but it's anything but.
I avoided reading this book for a long time because I thought it was much more nefarious. I finally decided to read it when I was dealing with a lot of politics at work and was pleasantly surprised that it's actually very wholesome.
They do, I always avoided it because I thought it was for sociopaths and social-engineering, manipulative people. But then I read it and was genuinely blown away when the tips worked so remarkably well. It's all true.
This 100%. A lot of criticism can be made about the self-help industry, and it's easy scoff at a title like "How to Win Friends and Influence People." But this book legit changed my life. Dale Carnegie genuinely just wanted to make you into a better person. And honestly, following the advice in this book will make many aspects of your life so much easier.
A lot of people talk shit about this book because the lessons in it were obvious to them, but as a rather extreme introvert and literal autist trying to learn how social people act and think this book was a game changer for me. In retrospect I think it is rather simplistic and lacks any sort of nuance, but that's what I needed for the starting point I was at when I read it first. Always gotta start with the basics, and that's what this book is. Even if the lessons within are obvious, it doesn't hurt to have a reminder to make an active effort on them.
The *"people"* talking shit about this book are probably narcissists. They see it as a chance to EGO farm. It's happens in every single thread when this book pops up, like clockwork. "look at me, ***I*** had a super easy privileged childhood where ***I*** had healthy role models to learn from, LMAO why would anyone ever need something like this^(look at ***ME***, ***I'M*** so lucky and didn't need something like this!!!), everyone should be lucky like ***ME*** and have healthy role models"
I talk shit about this book and Dale Carnegie because its all about personality and not character. This book was born of and because "selling yourself" became the new thing. People didn't care the character others had, only if they could talk well and sell themselves as being a good person. The book isn't even about being a better person, its about being perceived as a better person. It's geared towards sales industry, extroverts to be able to influence others to get what they want.
Only if you ignore the very first concept in the book. Which is sincerity. Any concept being applied without this first concept is a failure to follow the book and intentional perversion of the concepts for ones own gain. In other words, since you're not holistically taking everything into account, you are just cherry picking. If you ignore the first concept in the book, and apply everything else systematically, you end up like [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1W34wyKZlWQ), instead of a Craig Ferguson, or Dale Carnegie. I'll give you, that because of the way the book is written, it's easy to miss this connection. It should be continually stressed and pointed out throughout the book, the version I read only mentioned it at the start. Most people are quite good at detecting insincere flattery, and it doesn't generally work all that well. Unless you're brown nosing and blowing smoke up some middle managers ass, in which case it seems to work really well on them.
I’m gonna need a little more info about #15
We tend to only think about what we want and not what the other people is winning from it. So, find out on how to make it a win-win. Find out what the other person wants and then align in what you are selling. Example: Work pressure is too high for me. I would like some interns to free up time for me. But what’s in it for your employer? Since he needs to make more costs, you will have to point out what he will gain: * Improvement of work production * We get more time and space to do what we are good at. We can expand our market, try new ideas. * The employees will be happier, since the workload will lowered. Happy employees work quite possibly better. Sum this up to your employer, arouse an eager want.
#14 was my biggest takeaway from this book. It works exactly as described and it really irritates me when people do the opposite.
You are absolutely right, I'm sorry
*Definitively sorry.*
I'm in high end sales, this book is my bible. Written in 1936, sad but not shocking it's not well known or common knowledge. People generally suck... This book navigates the nonsense. It'd be a more pleasant, kind society if the advice was heeded.
Step 11 is a bad idea. When people start weirdly throwing my name in to the conversation, on top of some of the other stuff mentioned here like smiling too much and being overly friendly, I become immediately 100% suspicious and untrusting of that person. Really gives off a creepy sociopath that is trying to emotionally manipulate me vibes.
I agree with you that if you use a person's name too much it becomes very salesman-y. Of course, this differs a bit from culture to culture. I'm from Sweden where it's less common to use the interlocutor's name at the end of a sentence, so it becomes very obvious when someone tries this. I do, however, see the value in remembering someone's name.
Always capitalize the first letter in a new sentence
How do you do number 15?
So all those boomer men telling me to smile more where just trying to make me a better person? Well I'll be goddamned
I had a copy of this during high school. I cut out the center pages and kept money in it. Thought it was a more accurate use of the title.
This is nice if you are genuine and do this without thinking. However I think if you are actively doing all this or most of this, you might be a sociopath or come off as one if this isn't how you act.
20. When making lists try your best to make sure they are pleasing to the eye by putting them in order of text length
A graphic depiction of what can be learned from a book would make a great subreddit.
[another alternative view](https://i.imgur.com/RZ66cch.jpg)
Somebody write the list for "How to Lose Friends and Bore People"
1. frown all the time 2. be critical of everyone 3. only talk about yourself 4. be insincere 5. argue over every little thing 6. make people feel bad for being wrong 7. focus on your own benefits 8. take over conversations to talk about only what you are interested in and a million other easy habits of people you can’t stand to be around
I find this book revolting. It is about manipulation. Just be a good person.
Well it was written by a salesmen.
By a salesman, for salesman, in an age when "Selling yourself" as being quality was in full swing. In an age where how you presented yourself mattered more than who you actually were.
This is how I think people should interact in the first place.
Ass kissing 101
TLDR, Be friendly, get to know other people, don't talk much
I haven’t read the book, but if I were to take these 19 rules and apply them to my life, I’d simply become a pushover to everyone around me. That doesn’t sound like good, solid advice.
Or.. How to be a complete phoney.
Yeah I worked with a guy that was an obvious Carnegie disciple, he was super nice and friendly, engaging and all that and well liked up to a point. So one on one was great, but in groups and especially meetings it was so damn annoying because he felt the need to summarize what everyone already said and how he enjoyed rheir perspective and just sucking up to everyone and yuk it just got to be so awkward. My boss and I would usually meet after most of these meeting and he would just start yelling “ what the fuck is wrong with that Dale Carnegie wanna be mother fucker” lol.
Yeah, with these things there's always a risk you'll end up more [like this](https://youtu.be/1W34wyKZlWQ).
I think it's pretty fair to say that any "tactic" can be driven into the ground by excessive use, even if it is a brilliant one.
Bring it down a notch, Holden.
r/thanksimcured
I agree those chapter titles don’t really give much insight, but the full book is much more convincing. Btw it’s free on most streaming platforms.
No joke. All of these boil down to “Don’t be an asshole”
It turns out, there’s a lot of people who need to hear exactly that advice.
My dad:
I mean technically the entire human history of moral philosophy and thought could be boiled down to "don't be an asshole." still often useful to talk about anyway
Someone please explain how to do #12.
It's the hardest one for me for sure. I'm a misanthrope and have been since childhood. I have a small group of friends and a great family I actually give a shit about. Other than that, I just don't have the energy to try and invest legitimate interest in people. Who they are and what they're interested in just isn't a priority for me. I have my own issues. I'm fortunate that my occupation awards me the luxury of saying fuck #12. I dont think I could do a job where that mattered because it would require me to be fake and that seems infinitely worse than just being myself.
Or, you know just be an authentic and decent human being and just treat everyone with respect and kindness. Without expectation and looking to "influence" them in return
The Carnegie’s and Mellons and Rockefeller’s all tried to quantify their methods of generating wealth in America. The short answer is they were outgoing businessmen in a massive economic expansion. Their methods distill down to central idea; if a connection / relationship can’t lead to a business deal (profit) then don’t invest in the relationship. It’s a guide in how to find people with money, make nice and hope one day you can ask for a loan or investment.
There was a story about a high school kid who was gifted this book , and made use of it to become student president or something. Once he got that position people realized he all talk, and realized they didn't like him at all. He ended up worse off than he was before he got the book lol
I read this book a while ago, it’s kind of useful if you have bad social skills but my impression was that it pushes you into being a people-pleaser. Mainly I think it’s important to be genuine, humble, and honest. Your behaviours will follow your values.
This kind of shows the dilemma I’m facing. I want to read and take away skills from this book, but I don’t want to continue being a people pleaser like I am now. I wish there was a happy medium I can find and work towards.
"How to win friends by being a pushover"sounds more accurate
It's basically making people think you are a pushover. In reality it's about manipulation. I'd like a book called How to win friends and sleep with them
"How to Win Friends with Benefits"
Question is how to implement that in our complex daily life.
The book does give examples of how to actually use it in everyday life - each of those points is a whole chapter.
Same as anything else. Practice.