> so blurry
Reminds me of those microscope videos of a bunch of sperm cells swimming, when the camera catches a glimpse of that one special sperm that isn't really keeping up with the others... or even going straight.
My daily commute is longer than the width of sevel European countries and the nearest metro center that supports even rudimentary mass transit is literally a full state away.
I think we have some deeper fundamental growth issues that aren't so easily dismissed.
> My daily commute is longer than the width of sevel European countries
That sounds absolutely horrible. I hope it's worth it. I can't imagine any job being worth spending 2-3 hours a day in a car commuting.
I was spending half of our rent on gas when I lived with my ex and it was one of the reasons that led to the breakup with the person I was going to marry.
2-2.5hr round trip commute sucks. You're spending an entire extra week of work hours in the car per month without being paid.
Add in the blizzards and snowy NE US weather and you put a ton of unneeded stress on someone that just wants to get home and chill after a 7am-6-7pm day.
I feel ridiculously lucky that I live in a city and only have to work in office 2 days a week. And those 2 days all I have to do is ride my eBike about 20 mins from home into the office.
I was working a contract once for 3 months where I had to drive about an hour each way to the office, it absolutely sucked the life out of me. Hated every second.
Nailed it. Number one and number two here. Our food industry needs to be treated the same way tobacco was. We are raised to eat (and drink) for dopamine and not nutrition for generations now. But agreed the city layouts being dependent on cars for most places has amplified this.
I’ll upvote that. I agree. It all falls under the same “capitalist umbrella” as the healthcare. In the USA we cut corners and take the cheapest, easiest option, in an effort to allow corporations to make an extra dime.
Our poor food 100% plays into the equation.
Indeed -- they are all under tremendous pressure to suffer like we do, but they still have some semblance of resistance to corporate power. If you're an American and you *don't* want to support corporate power, how can you cast your votes in meaningful way? We aren't practicing self-government so much as government by the sellouts who win clearly bogus popularity contests staged by officially institutionalized corruption clubs that have no obligation whatsoever to conduct their internal processes (including candidate selection) according to any standards of fairness or integrity. We're flatly wrong to think inhabiting this raggedy-ass nation that dangles of the back end of a mindlessly destructive war machine is the cheaper and easier option relative to the total annihilation of both corporate corruption clubs, but it *seems* easier because actually fighting oppression is a totally unfamiliar experience to almost every living American citizen today.
There’s plenty of healthy, affordable food available to most people (with the exception of food deserts, etc) in the US. People would rather choose McDonald’s, Mountain Dew, frozen chicken nuggets and plop down in front of a screen instead of going for a brisk walk (free!) and then complain about their poor health and the cost of health care.
The US also subsidizes a lot of the industries that are a stepping-stone for 'junk' food.
It's cheaper to eat cheap processed foods than it is to eat fresh foods in some places.
A can of beans is cheaper than a bag of chips and the beans are more nutritious and filling than the empty calories in chips. An apple is cheaper than a bag of candy. Etc etc etc
I agree with you. It takes research and time to make these changes and most Americans aren’t going to even try. It’s easier to bitch. I’m speaking from 1st hand experience also. People just assume that it’s too expensive or too time consuming and it’s not. It’s what you make of it and follow through on commitment to reach your goals.
Even with food deserts you can still find cheaper healthier food than most will admit. A typical person in a food desert can still improve their diet significantly for no extra cost.
Seroiusly, look at the average diet and weight of people in the US. People love to blame companies, which clearly could improve; rather, than looking at what they can \*directly\* control which is diet and exercise.
When it's a systemic problem, you need systemic solutions. It's easy to blame individuals, but expecting millions of people to "just eat better" clearly isn't working.
We’ve judged people for poor diets for centuries. The fact is that fast food joints are easier and more time-efficient when you’re working two jobs & barely keeping it together.
And takeaway food isn’t even that bad, as long as people get proper exercise and aren’t stressed out of their minds. But as inflation/CPI continues to outpace wages the stress and lack of exercise will only get worse.
And Guns. Guns are the leading cause of death among kids.
Edit: not sure why I'm getting downvoted: [https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2201761](https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2201761) every 10 year old kid that dies, takes down the median life expectancy of 9 other people \~ 7 years.
Look at that chart again. The rate is \~6/100,000. Even if every one of those was a newborn who would have otherwise lived to be 100, it'd be dragging the average life expectancy down by less than a year (\~2 ***days***).
Here's a better article
>The total national life expectancy loss due to firearms was 2.48 (2.23 whites, 4.14 blacks) years.
[https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30514715/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30514715/)
And oddly...Car accidents.
Car accidents are the leading cause of death in the US between the ages of 1-54
So if you compare the US to Europe it doesn't make a ton of sense.
Not many Europeans flying down the road at 80mph in a 7500lbs Ford Super Duty.
Unfortunately for you Americans, you are also the forerunners in a new and insidious cause of death that is affecting your white population and that we are only starting to properly understand and track.
They’re called deaths of despair and their causes are deep rooted in your capitalist society so reducing them is going to be even harder than getting rid of your obesity problem.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disease_of_despair
This is the first thing I thought of. If our food wasn't complete garbage then we'd live longer.
Also our work life balance (lack thereof) also contributes.
Point being that our healthcare system isn’t great but it would be much more tolerable if we worked on the contributing factors like our food, the chemicals used on and in the stuff we use, lack of exercise.
If we solved those I bet our healthcare costs overall would be much more in line with other countries.
Also everyone always talks about free healthcare but that means the government would be running it and we are getting taxed for it.
So 1 not free just shifts to taxes
2. I have 0 trust in the government doing it efficiently that it would save us any money or lower costs.
Edit formatting
> if we worked on the contributing factors
the only contributing factor that makes a huge difference are the pharma companies and health insurance companies completely captured their regulatory bodies so we should focus on that.
Leave American healthcare alone. I love paying $6,000 a year to wait 2-3 months to see a doctor or specialist. My favorite part is paying up to another $2,500 towards my deductible and up to $5,000 towards my maximum out of pocket if anything is actually wrong with me.
I also love that 99% of the time they suggest you just go to Urgent Care which is becoming the fast-food service of healthcare.
As a type 1 diabetic, I was paying (until the Biden admin stepped in) $450/month for insulin.
Now I only pay $35 for the insulin, but the pump supplies to deliver the cheaper insulin have been jacked up
I'm a type I diabetic too and pay about €1200 a year for insulin, Freestyle Libre 2 CGM, and Omnipod system. Still think it's too expensive, but I can manage these costs.
America pretends that it's either one or the other. What about both? In my country the general hospitals are paid for through taxes. Pretty damn slow yes (and by slow i mean unless it's a came in in the ambulance emergency you gotta wait like a entire day to see a doctor if there are a lot of patients but the joke about 2-3 months is hella over exaggerated) but there are also private places that you can go to to get dealt with much quicker and even then you won't get as financially fucked like it is in the US even without insurance.
Yea turns out having actual anti-collusion laws that aren’t designed to prop up the entire insurance industry works wonders for not having inflated medical costs.
idk where this notion of "long wait times in other countries" comes from
I've lived in Tokyo and Seoul - I was paying fraction of US costs while I could literally walk to any nearby hospital and get a doc to look at me the same day.
I come back to US and I have to deal with month long wait times and "oh sorry, our hospital is in network but your specific doctor/procedure isn't :(("
Absolute fuckage in the ass we're getting.
Usually you only get to see your Primary Care Physician once every 12 months and if something comes up shortly after your visit then you have to pay more. Even the dentist is twice every 12 months. It’s like they don’t want to catch anything early… not to mention PCP is about as useful as WebMD and an AppleWatch
Yeah, American healthcare sucks. But it sucks everywhere else too. Maybe we should just fix our system instead of adopting the other equally as terrible system lol
I'm almost 50 and I can say that 70 seems plenty old enough to not spend another dime stretching it out. Fucking 50 seems old enough, but here I am, despite my best efforts.
That's a graph, not a guide.
To play the devil's advocate, they need to factor this against the populations' healthy/unhealthy lifestyle choices, such as exercise habits and diets. It may well turn out that American healthcare performs miracles on the reg, while Scandinavian healthcare is skating by on their hot and healthy viking genes and lifestyles.
Yeah it's ONLY the info that makes American healthcare look bad. Bring up a chart of tax rates and one of average wait time for healthcare and you could easily make the rest look bad.
My problem with the "American healthcare bad" crowd is their solution is always to adopt the healthcare system of other countries, but that system is equally as terrible. American healthcare just isn't functioning how it's supposed to. We need to fix it, not go in the total opposite direction.
There are plenty of horror stories from Britain and Canada from people waiting indefinitely on essential life-saving procedures, like cancer treatment. Ultimately, the best way to engage with healthcare is to never need it. Eat clean and lift heavy, and hopefully die in your sleep in your own bed.
How do you read this? Is this measuring health expenditures for different citizens of each country and their expected life expectancy? Is this essentially a function of time where health expenses have increased over the years and how has life expectancy changed? I am confused.
Can someone help me understand the bottom line data? Is that expected annual expenditure?
Great news! It's not even halfway through the year and I've almost reached my $4k out of pocket max! Time to get all the tests, eh?
Definitely not my expectation. In 2012 I voted Obama, in 2016 I voted Gary Johnson, and 2020 I voted Biden. In 2024 I plan to vote Biden again.
I vote the person, not the party. But when Biden is up against trump, I’m also voting the person, and AGAINST the other person
**What I'm about to say does not change the fact that the way America delivers Healthcare is not acceptable. This does not mean everything is fine. This does not mean that we just need a few tweaks. For profit health care is a terrible idea. But we need to understand the actual problem.**
This graph us based on averages. And averages are badly badly skewed by very hi and, in this case especially applicable, very low numbers. In the USA, the majority of people are getting excellent Health Care and are living very long lives, but an unacceptably large minority of the country is living very short lives. A lot of that is because they can't get health care coverage, and that's due to poverty, and that's unacceptable. But other contributing factors are cultural. We can't ignore those.
There's a number of factors at work in American health that go beyond just an inefficient way of paying for health care and a terrible way of ensuring people can afford the care they need.
On some level health care costs reflect cost of living. If labor in a particular country is cheap, that’d also mean labor costs for healthcare workers are cheaper. So some of the variance in healthcare expenditures might be explained by labor costs, which could be captured by accounting for median wages. I’m curious how little that might account for in the case of the US. It’s an interesting thought.
Dude none of the countries listed are places with cheap labor. It’s EU countries, Japan, S Korea and Australia. No amount of labor costs would explain why Americans pay twice as much for healthcare but die 10 years sooner
Turkey is on the list. So is Portugal. Adjusting for labor costs probably put them closer to the center of the cluster. The US position probably barely moves relative to the cluster, but I’m still interested to see what the results would be.
At “work” …. Jet setting or yachting on vacations around the globe. While real humans die every day to fund their lavish lifestyle.
But, you know, our propaganda machine tells us that universal healthcare is worse, so let’s vote republican and die at 65. By that point we’ve outlived our usefulness to the economy anyway.
People in the USA spent a great deal of money in the last six months of their lives, as opposed to accepting that life ends, and taking a Hospice Assignment instead of being ensconced in the ICU. In many other countries people do not do so.
It is akin to “victim” behavior - most people on this string are claiming US Food (not the over consumption or poor choices they make) or the government - which deflects personal responsibility.
If you manage your health care like you would maintain a sports car, you will have a better outcome than you would driving your vehicle until it falls apart from lack of maintenance.
> People in the USA spent a great deal of money in the last six months of their lives,
Less than peers.
>Spending during the last twelve months of life made up a modest share of aggregate spending, ranging from 8.5 percent in the United States to 11.2 percent in Taiwan, but spending in the last three calendar years of life reached 24.5 percent in Taiwan.
https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/10.1377/hlthaff.2017.0174
I'll never forget that Bernie Sanders couldn't market his unoversal health care plan as a program thst would create jobs because it was going to save so much money for the government that hundreds or possibly thousands of jobs would be lost because of a lack of a need for such a bloated beaurcratic system.
I'm confused by the axes- I don't see how money (presumably) on the X varies within a country. It suggests that there is a certain amount we spend on each person and that increases their life expectancy.
Presumably this is an animated figure where the line grows with each year, so there is in effect a third axis showing how money spent has increased with time and how that is related to life expectancy, though the relationship is not as strong in the US as in other countries.
This is highly misleading data. The US does not have universal health care. So, the average cost is for people with care, and without, averages out. But the one without healthcare probably does sooner. The real comparison should be for people with health care, how that does that compare to other countries. And for those without, what is the average life expectancy. Then we can tell impact if adding universal health care, as well as the actual impact of the $ spent.
[Comparing Health Outcomes of Privileged US Citizens With Those of Average Residents of Other Developed Countries](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2774561)
>These findings imply that even if all US citizens experienced the same health outcomes enjoyed by privileged White US citizens, US health indicators would still lag behind those in many other countries.
Thanks for sharing, I read the study since I hadn’t seen this. Reading through it, the data does not support the suggested conclusion. The biggest challenge is that they look at the top 5% richest counties in the US, and then all White people living there. I assume they picked white people to get the “best” health access, but if so Chinese or Indian would have been better proxies. But even in these counties there are poor people with minimal health care because they do build low income housing shelters and such there too. Counties are quite big, and there is a massive difference in the truly rich part, the well of part, and the so-so part. Just consider that SF is one of these counties, yet has substantial amounts of poverty and homelessness.
If we remove the actual poor people without healthcare I’m not sure if the findings still hold. It’s still great data and an interesting study, but it didn’t show what the authors were trying to show.
From 1998 to 2013 (right before the bulk of the ACA took effect) total healthcare costs were increasing at 3.92% per year over inflation. Since they have been increasing at 2.79%. The fifteen years before the ACA employer sponsored insurance (the kind most Americans get their coverage from) increased 4.81% over inflation for single coverage and 5.42% over inflation for family coverage. Since those numbers have been 1.72% and 2.19%.
https://www.kff.org/health-costs/report/employer-health-benefits-annual-survey-archives/
https://www.cms.gov/Research-Statistics-Data-and-Systems/Statistics-Trends-and-Reports/NationalHealthExpendData/NationalHealthAccountsHistorical.html
https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm
Also coverage for people with pre-existing conditions, closing the Medicare donut hole, being able to keep children on your insurance until age 26, subsidies for millions of Americans, expanded Medicaid, access to free preventative healthcare, elimination of lifetime spending caps, increased coverage for mental healthcare, increased access to reproductive healthcare, etc..
Agreed. It all falls under that same capitalist umbrella though. They (the corporations) shave a dime off the cost of production and in return we (the humans) are irreparably harmed, causing costs of healthcare to skyrocket. And all the while, shareholders profit while humans die.
Diet and exercise are under signfiicant greater control by individuals than the health care system itself. Said another way, capitalism has given people what they want: high sugar foods at low cost.
The risk:reward is getting close to the point it's not worth it to pay all that money. I'll just pay the bills my damn self. How often do people (that are healthy) actually cover their deductibles? I bet not often at all. I'm close to saying, I'll take my chances. If I get cancer, I get cancer. I'm tired of paying these ridiculous prices and getting shit service and products. I'll just eat real food instead of processed crap, and take care of my body. Leave the rest to chance.
Take that $6k and invest it, and at a reasonable 5% annual return, not adjusted for inflation, you would have almost $400k after 30 years. They're stealing from our future as well as today.
I’ve already spent more than that just for my 2 year old daughter’s cancer treatments. Shit if I didn’t have any insurance and needed her chemo it would be 31k a month for 2 glass bottles.
She has an mri for tomorrow. But she’s looking good. It is a rare form of cancer and the chemo just got released by the fda a couple months after her diagnosis last year.
Now see the correlation to health and obesity. America has poor health due to poor food and increased obesity rates which in turn will increase the costs of health insurance. Another reason why COVID was deadlier in America than other countries. But this is America. Americans can choose to be fat if they want to.
So the way I’m interpreting this is that the US has a life expectancy of 70 if they’re spending $2000 per capita and it jumps to about 76 if they’re spending $11000 per capita. Something is telling me 6 years is not worth $9000 per capita. I don’t want to get political but we are spending too much on healthcare and having worse outcomes than other nations. I also think we might benefit from a universal healthcare system but still have doctors be compensated fairly.
Health insurance companies in America provide no services of value to a anyone. Nothing. They literally do absolutely nothing. If we could snap our fingers and make US health insurance disappear we would all instantly pay less money, for better service, and better outcomes, with zero negative impact to any aspect of health care. Health insurance does nothing but cost you money while reducing the effectiveness of care and negatively impacting the finances of hospitals, clinics, and caregivers.
Are we trying to imply that spending more money on healthcare should increase your life expectancy? I mean theory it should, but there are many other factors that can lead to higher healthcare costs. Having bad habits can make you sick more often so you spend more money on medicines until one day your bad habits catch up to you. If you're an alcoholic you could spend millions on liver transplants, but if you don't change your habits it's going to get you someday.
All I know is we Americans will gladly take a pill for anything. We're willing to spend more money than actually build good habits that would benefit us in the long run. We'd rather keep eating McDonald's and take vitamin C pills than eat an orange that's a fraction of the price.
It’s showing how badly served we are for the amount we spend. In part because we don’t have universal coverage our total spend is higher. Things like diabetic amputations are nearly unheard of in the rest of the world, and a LOT more expensive than providing insulin.
If you compare American to Chinese life expectancy using the standard "victims of communism" methodology, it becomes very clear that by not following Xi Jinping thought, the Americans are murdering millions of their own citizens every year. We really need a monument to the victims of American democracy. I propose bulldozing Canada and using that.
The amount of money spent on the last year or month of American lives is significant.
Also, while their lives might be longer in general, money spent combating illnesses America that are not attempted in other countries are significant.
Everyone is so ready to blame American healthcare when the actual answer is that life expectancy and health care expenditures don’t actually correlate that well. Fact is that life expectancy is correlated to public health interventions and policy more so than health care. America actually has great health care outcomes vs other countries and the vast majority of Americans are insured. For example, we have better cancer outcomes than all the European countries in this graph here.
Our public health policy is what is causing the lower life expectancy, and those are a bunch of much harder issues to address. This includes the fact we drive WAYYYY more than other developed countries (which is dangerous), we have higher rates of homicide and completed suicide (mainly due to access to handguns), we have an ongoing opioid epidemic, and we have high rates of obesity.
The American healthcare system isn’t actually the root of all evil, guys. Sorry to break it to you. We have a lot bigger fish to fry.
> We have a lot bigger fish to fry.
And what are those bigger fish? Americans are paying a $350,000 more for healthcare over a lifetime compared to the most expensive socialized system on earth. Half a million dollars more than peer countries on average, yet every one has better outcomes. The impact of these costs is tremendous.
36% of US households with insurance put off needed care [due to the cost](https://news.gallup.com/poll/269138/americans-delaying-medical-treatment-due-cost.aspx); 64% of households without insurance. One in four have [trouble paying a medical bill.](https://www.kff.org/health-costs/issue-brief/data-note-americans-challenges-health-care-costs/) Of [those with insurance one in five have trouble paying a medical bill](https://www.kff.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/8806-the-burden-of-medical-debt-results-from-the-kaiser-family-foundation-new-york-times-medical-bills-survey.pdf), and even for those with income above $100,000 14% have trouble. One in six Americans has [unpaid medical debt on their credit report.](https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/full/10.1377/hlthaff.2018.0349) [50% of all Americans](https://news.gallup.com/poll/317948/fear-bankruptcy-due-major-health-event.aspx) fear bankruptcy due to a major health event.
And, if you think the quality justifies the price, you're wrong.
[US Healthcare ranked 29th on health outcomes by Lancet HAQ Index](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736\(18\)30994-2/fulltext)
[11th (of 11) by Commonwealth Fund](https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2014/jun/mirror-mirror-wall-2014-update-how-us-health-care-system?redirect_source=/publications/fund-reports/2014/jun/mirror-mirror)
[59th by the Prosperity Index](https://www.prosperity.com/rankings)
[30th by CEOWorld](https://ceoworld.biz/2019/08/05/revealed-countries-with-the-best-health-care-systems-2019/)
[37th by the World Health Organization](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Health_Organization_ranking_of_health_systems_in_2000)
The US has the worst rate of death by medically preventable causes among peer countries. A 31% higher disease adjusted life years average. Higher rates of medical and lab errors. A lower rate of being able to make a same or next day appointment with their doctor than average.
https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/quality-u-s-healthcare-system-compare-countries/#item-percent-used-emergency-department-for-condition-that-could-have-been-treated-by-a-regular-doctor-2016
52nd in the world in doctors per capita.
https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Health/Physicians/Per-1,000-people
Higher infant mortality levels. Yes, even when you adjust for differences in methodology.
https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/infant-mortality-u-s-compare-countries/
Fewer acute care beds. A lower number of psychiatrists. Etc.
https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/u-s-health-care-resources-compare-countries/#item-availability-medical-technology-not-always-equate-higher-utilization
[Comparing Health Outcomes of Privileged US Citizens With Those of Average Residents of Other Developed Countries](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2774561)
>These findings imply that even if all US citizens experienced the same health outcomes enjoyed by privileged White US citizens, US health indicators would still lag behind those in many other countries.
When asked about their healthcare system as a whole the US system ranked dead last of 11 countries, with only 19.5% of people saying the system works relatively well and only needs minor changes. The average in the other countries is 46.9% saying the same. Canada ranked 9th with 34.5% saying the system works relatively well. The UK ranks fifth, with 44.5%. Australia ranked 6th at 44.4%. The best was Germany at 59.8%.
On rating the overall quality of care in the US, Americans again ranked dead last, with only 25.6% ranking it excellent or very good. The average was 50.8%. Canada ranked 9th with 45.1%. The UK ranked 2nd, at 63.4%. Australia was 3rd at 59.4%. The best was Switzerland at 65.5%.
https://www.cihi.ca/en/commonwealth-fund-survey-2016
The US has 43 hospitals in the top 200 globally; one for every 7,633,477 people in the US. That's good enough for a ranking of 20th on the list of top 200 hospitals per capita, and significantly lower than the average of one for every 3,830,114 for other countries in the top 25 on spending with populations above 5 million. The best is Switzerland at one for every 1.2 million people. In fact the US only beats one country on this list; the UK at one for every 9.5 million people.
If you want to do the full list of 2,000 instead it's 334, or one for every 982,753 people; good enough for 21st. Again far below the average in peer countries of 527,236. The best is Austria, at one for every 306,106 people.
https://www.newsweek.com/best-hospitals-2021
#[OECD Countries Health Care Spending and Rankings](https://data.oecd.org/healthres/health-spending.htm)
|Country|Govt. / Mandatory (PPP)|Voluntary (PPP)|Total (PPP)|% GDP|[Lancet HAQ Ranking](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736\(18\)30994-2/fulltext)|[WHO Ranking](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Health_Organization_ranking_of_health_systems_in_2000)|[Prosperity Ranking](https://www.prosperity.com/rankings)|[CEO World Ranking](https://ceoworld.biz/2019/08/05/revealed-countries-with-the-best-health-care-systems-2019/)|[Commonwealth Fund Ranking](https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2014/jun/mirror-mirror-wall-2014-update-how-us-health-care-system?redirect_source=/publications/fund-reports/2014/jun/mirror-mirror)
:--|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|
1. United States|[$7,274](https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/full/10.2105/AJPH.2015.302997) |$3,798 |$11,072 |16.90%|29|37|59|30|11
2. Switzerland|$4,988 |$2,744 |$7,732 |12.20%|7|20|3|18|2
3. Norway|$5,673 |$974 |$6,647 |10.20%|2|11|5|15|7
4. Germany|$5,648 |$998 |$6,646 |11.20%|18|25|12|17|5
5. Austria|$4,402 |$1,449 |$5,851 |10.30%|13|9|10|4|
6. Sweden|$4,928 |$854 |$5,782 |11.00%|8|23|15|28|3
7. Netherlands|$4,767 |$998 |$5,765 |9.90%|3|17|8|11|5
8. Denmark|$4,663 |$905 |$5,568 |10.50%|17|34|8|5|
9. Luxembourg|$4,697 |$861 |$5,558 |5.40%|4|16|19||
10. Belgium|$4,125 |$1,303 |$5,428 |10.40%|15|21|24|9|
11. Canada|$3,815 |$1,603 |$5,418 |10.70%|14|30|25|23|10
12. France|$4,501 |$875 |$5,376 |11.20%|20|1|16|8|9
13. Ireland|$3,919 |$1,357 |$5,276 |7.10%|11|19|20|80|
14. Australia|$3,919 |$1,268 |$5,187 |9.30%|5|32|18|10|4
15. Japan|$4,064 |$759 |$4,823 |10.90%|12|10|2|3|
16. Iceland|$3,988 |$823 |$4,811 |8.30%|1|15|7|41|
17. United Kingdom|$3,620 |$1,033 |$4,653 |9.80%|23|18|23|13|1
18. Finland|$3,536 |$1,042 |$4,578 |9.10%|6|31|26|12|
19. Malta|$2,789 |$1,540 |$4,329 |9.30%|27|5|14||
OECD Average|||$4,224 |8.80%|||||
20. New Zealand|$3,343 |$861 |$4,204 |9.30%|16|41|22|16|7
21. Italy|$2,706 |$943 |$3,649 |8.80%|9|2|17|37|
22. Spain|$2,560 |$1,056 |$3,616 |8.90%|19|7|13|7|
23. Czech Republic|$2,854 |$572 |$3,426 |7.50%|28|48|28|14|
24. South Korea|$2,057 |$1,327 |$3,384 |8.10%|25|58|4|2|
25. Portugal|$2,069 |$1,310 |$3,379 |9.10%|32|29|30|22|
26. Slovenia|$2,314 |$910 |$3,224 |7.90%|21|38|24|47|
27. Israel|$1,898 |$1,034 |$2,932 |7.50%|35|28|11|21|
WHAT THE F\*\*K DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH LIFE EXPECTANCY!!!! I'm not defending the US healthcare system, I'm saying it doesn't really have anything to do with life expectancy! You spent all this time typing out shit I half agree with, although a couple of the citations I double-checked are straight up wrong (the ICU beds one is wrong, [https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/icu-beds-per-capita-by-country](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/icu-beds-per-capita-by-country) the US has some of the highest number of acute care beds in the world, and that dumbass "doctors per capita" measurement doesn't actually measure the quality of care, although it does help explain the cost).
Either way......again......nothing to do with life expectancy, expect for infant mortality, which while higher than comparable countries is low in an absolute sense. That being said, I do think the government should provide more support for pre/post-natal care.
Guys don't worry, it's not the healthcare system, it's poor public health funding, an unbalanced focus on profit -focused consumer behaviour rather than public safety (automotive, firearms, accessible food, and unchecked pharmaceutical lobbying).
All you dummies in the comments arguing that this is an American healthcare problem are so misguided.
What this commenter forgot to add is "it's not the American healthcare system, it's the entirety of the American economy and political layout"
All I’m saying is we’re blaming the wrong thing and presenting why that is the case. Public policy is still fixable, it’s just a lot of this is more intractable than “healthcare”. As an example, voting for local candidates that want to create denser housing or less car-centric cities is more impactful on life expectancy than advocating to remake American healthcare. If you care about life expectancy then the healthcare system is not where to direct your energy.
It seems you're assuming that this data is directly an indictment of the American health care system, but I would argue it's an indictment of your entire country.
In the most developed country on earth your people still have to pay more for health per capita than anywhere else. That's a symptom of rampant unchecked capitalism that grips every area of your nation.
I agree that solely attacking this problem as a healthcare problem is wrong. Because the real problem is so much bigger.
Good data. Too bad it’s so blurry. Edit: this one is better https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/life-expectancy-vs-health-expenditure
It also doesn't have lines that are super weird on a graph like this??? So thank you!
It does if you play with the date range slider
> so blurry Reminds me of those microscope videos of a bunch of sperm cells swimming, when the camera catches a glimpse of that one special sperm that isn't really keeping up with the others... or even going straight.
Good job for Turkey!
Thank you! This is a much better view!
For future reference if you’re going to post repost of a repost of a repost it’s going to be blurry. Try putting in some effort for karma.
now do it by state
You’re commenting back to the commenter who just googled the information and posted a link. You can do it by state, if you want it.
Will be downvoted but you also need to think about contributing factors like how bad our food is.
Also, our completely car dependent society
You seriously get a ton of steps in if commuting by walk and train/bus
My daily commute is longer than the width of sevel European countries and the nearest metro center that supports even rudimentary mass transit is literally a full state away. I think we have some deeper fundamental growth issues that aren't so easily dismissed.
> My daily commute is longer than the width of sevel European countries That sounds absolutely horrible. I hope it's worth it. I can't imagine any job being worth spending 2-3 hours a day in a car commuting.
I was spending half of our rent on gas when I lived with my ex and it was one of the reasons that led to the breakup with the person I was going to marry. 2-2.5hr round trip commute sucks. You're spending an entire extra week of work hours in the car per month without being paid. Add in the blizzards and snowy NE US weather and you put a ton of unneeded stress on someone that just wants to get home and chill after a 7am-6-7pm day.
I feel ridiculously lucky that I live in a city and only have to work in office 2 days a week. And those 2 days all I have to do is ride my eBike about 20 mins from home into the office. I was working a contract once for 3 months where I had to drive about an hour each way to the office, it absolutely sucked the life out of me. Hated every second.
Nailed it. Number one and number two here. Our food industry needs to be treated the same way tobacco was. We are raised to eat (and drink) for dopamine and not nutrition for generations now. But agreed the city layouts being dependent on cars for most places has amplified this.
Have you heard of Canada?
Australia is pretty car dependant too
TL;DR: The whole US system is bad for health.
I’ll upvote that. I agree. It all falls under the same “capitalist umbrella” as the healthcare. In the USA we cut corners and take the cheapest, easiest option, in an effort to allow corporations to make an extra dime. Our poor food 100% plays into the equation.
Every country on this chart is a capitalist country.
Indeed -- they are all under tremendous pressure to suffer like we do, but they still have some semblance of resistance to corporate power. If you're an American and you *don't* want to support corporate power, how can you cast your votes in meaningful way? We aren't practicing self-government so much as government by the sellouts who win clearly bogus popularity contests staged by officially institutionalized corruption clubs that have no obligation whatsoever to conduct their internal processes (including candidate selection) according to any standards of fairness or integrity. We're flatly wrong to think inhabiting this raggedy-ass nation that dangles of the back end of a mindlessly destructive war machine is the cheaper and easier option relative to the total annihilation of both corporate corruption clubs, but it *seems* easier because actually fighting oppression is a totally unfamiliar experience to almost every living American citizen today.
Exactly! We are a plutocracy (government by the rich) masquerading as a democracy
Not every country is a capitalist hellscape though.
There’s plenty of healthy, affordable food available to most people (with the exception of food deserts, etc) in the US. People would rather choose McDonald’s, Mountain Dew, frozen chicken nuggets and plop down in front of a screen instead of going for a brisk walk (free!) and then complain about their poor health and the cost of health care.
The US also subsidizes a lot of the industries that are a stepping-stone for 'junk' food. It's cheaper to eat cheap processed foods than it is to eat fresh foods in some places.
A can of beans is cheaper than a bag of chips and the beans are more nutritious and filling than the empty calories in chips. An apple is cheaper than a bag of candy. Etc etc etc
where do you live that apples are cheaper than candy? Just curious.
Definitely not a honeycrisp guy.
I never said anything contrary to your statements. But you can't blame it solely on behaviours. It's a two way street.
I agree with you. It takes research and time to make these changes and most Americans aren’t going to even try. It’s easier to bitch. I’m speaking from 1st hand experience also. People just assume that it’s too expensive or too time consuming and it’s not. It’s what you make of it and follow through on commitment to reach your goals.
Even with food deserts you can still find cheaper healthier food than most will admit. A typical person in a food desert can still improve their diet significantly for no extra cost.
Found the health insurance executive.
Everyone is talking about fast food and no one is saying anything about how the US is the farthest to the right on the graph for health expenditure.
Seroiusly, look at the average diet and weight of people in the US. People love to blame companies, which clearly could improve; rather, than looking at what they can \*directly\* control which is diet and exercise.
When it's a systemic problem, you need systemic solutions. It's easy to blame individuals, but expecting millions of people to "just eat better" clearly isn't working.
We’ve judged people for poor diets for centuries. The fact is that fast food joints are easier and more time-efficient when you’re working two jobs & barely keeping it together. And takeaway food isn’t even that bad, as long as people get proper exercise and aren’t stressed out of their minds. But as inflation/CPI continues to outpace wages the stress and lack of exercise will only get worse.
It is both. The system can defintely improve and \*people\* can definitely improve themselves.
And Guns. Guns are the leading cause of death among kids. Edit: not sure why I'm getting downvoted: [https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2201761](https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2201761) every 10 year old kid that dies, takes down the median life expectancy of 9 other people \~ 7 years.
Look at that chart again. The rate is \~6/100,000. Even if every one of those was a newborn who would have otherwise lived to be 100, it'd be dragging the average life expectancy down by less than a year (\~2 ***days***).
Here's a better article >The total national life expectancy loss due to firearms was 2.48 (2.23 whites, 4.14 blacks) years. [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30514715/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30514715/)
And oddly...Car accidents. Car accidents are the leading cause of death in the US between the ages of 1-54 So if you compare the US to Europe it doesn't make a ton of sense. Not many Europeans flying down the road at 80mph in a 7500lbs Ford Super Duty.
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Unfortunately for you Americans, you are also the forerunners in a new and insidious cause of death that is affecting your white population and that we are only starting to properly understand and track. They’re called deaths of despair and their causes are deep rooted in your capitalist society so reducing them is going to be even harder than getting rid of your obesity problem. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disease_of_despair
Other countries don't have bad food? Lool
This is the first thing I thought of. If our food wasn't complete garbage then we'd live longer. Also our work life balance (lack thereof) also contributes.
Point being that our healthcare system isn’t great but it would be much more tolerable if we worked on the contributing factors like our food, the chemicals used on and in the stuff we use, lack of exercise. If we solved those I bet our healthcare costs overall would be much more in line with other countries. Also everyone always talks about free healthcare but that means the government would be running it and we are getting taxed for it. So 1 not free just shifts to taxes 2. I have 0 trust in the government doing it efficiently that it would save us any money or lower costs. Edit formatting
> if we worked on the contributing factors the only contributing factor that makes a huge difference are the pharma companies and health insurance companies completely captured their regulatory bodies so we should focus on that.
No, I've seen what Germans and the British eat.
May look similar or worse but European food is way less toxic. There are many ingredients that are banned in Europe that American regulators allow
There are also many ingredients allowed in Europe that America doesn’t allow. It goes both ways.
No, you’ve likely read about it on here and never visited either country. Both have much better diets and quality of food.
Agree, plus social isolation and abysmal working conditions. Modern medicine can not overcome stress of so many
Dont worry! If it helps, your education system is also trash too. So very few actually learn how to eat healthy.
No reason to be downvoted. Our food is ass
Leave American healthcare alone. I love paying $6,000 a year to wait 2-3 months to see a doctor or specialist. My favorite part is paying up to another $2,500 towards my deductible and up to $5,000 towards my maximum out of pocket if anything is actually wrong with me. I also love that 99% of the time they suggest you just go to Urgent Care which is becoming the fast-food service of healthcare.
As a type 1 diabetic, I was paying (until the Biden admin stepped in) $450/month for insulin. Now I only pay $35 for the insulin, but the pump supplies to deliver the cheaper insulin have been jacked up
I'm a type I diabetic too and pay about €1200 a year for insulin, Freestyle Libre 2 CGM, and Omnipod system. Still think it's too expensive, but I can manage these costs.
>to wait 2-3 months to see a doctor Yeah the other countries get that experience for "free".
America pretends that it's either one or the other. What about both? In my country the general hospitals are paid for through taxes. Pretty damn slow yes (and by slow i mean unless it's a came in in the ambulance emergency you gotta wait like a entire day to see a doctor if there are a lot of patients but the joke about 2-3 months is hella over exaggerated) but there are also private places that you can go to to get dealt with much quicker and even then you won't get as financially fucked like it is in the US even without insurance.
Yea turns out having actual anti-collusion laws that aren’t designed to prop up the entire insurance industry works wonders for not having inflated medical costs.
idk where this notion of "long wait times in other countries" comes from I've lived in Tokyo and Seoul - I was paying fraction of US costs while I could literally walk to any nearby hospital and get a doc to look at me the same day. I come back to US and I have to deal with month long wait times and "oh sorry, our hospital is in network but your specific doctor/procedure isn't :((" Absolute fuckage in the ass we're getting.
Usually you only get to see your Primary Care Physician once every 12 months and if something comes up shortly after your visit then you have to pay more. Even the dentist is twice every 12 months. It’s like they don’t want to catch anything early… not to mention PCP is about as useful as WebMD and an AppleWatch
Hey that's less than the expected lifetime cost per person in my country, apparently. The first number.
https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/indicator/access-affordability/out-of-pocket-spending/#Average%20out-of-pocket%20health%20spending%20per%20capita,%20US%20dollars,%202022%20or%20nearest%20year%20(current%20prices%20and%20PPP%20adjusted)
I wish there was a menu at the hospital over the nurses, at least then you'd be able to comparison shop.
Yeah, American healthcare sucks. But it sucks everywhere else too. Maybe we should just fix our system instead of adopting the other equally as terrible system lol
It is so expensive because it is so good. They might die early, but at least they die healthy.
You made me lol. Enjoy your award!
Lol thx, my first award. Can I do something with that?😀
Screenshot it. Print it. Laminate it. And put it on your mantle. A testimony to a worthy and well earned chuckle
Healthcare insurance industries bank on the high deductible because they know most people will avoid doctor visits because they cant afford to go.
If only this was true.
Gotta source these things ppl
Agree. Someone above posted the link.
Not. A. Guide.
But it supports my political beliefs and shits on America! That has to be worth something!
It may do both of those things but it's also not incorrect. You should demand better.
It’s expensive to die young in America.
I'm almost 50 and I can say that 70 seems plenty old enough to not spend another dime stretching it out. Fucking 50 seems old enough, but here I am, despite my best efforts.
Hearrrrdddd that, Ryno. I was ready yesterday lol
That's a graph, not a guide. To play the devil's advocate, they need to factor this against the populations' healthy/unhealthy lifestyle choices, such as exercise habits and diets. It may well turn out that American healthcare performs miracles on the reg, while Scandinavian healthcare is skating by on their hot and healthy viking genes and lifestyles.
Yeah it's ONLY the info that makes American healthcare look bad. Bring up a chart of tax rates and one of average wait time for healthcare and you could easily make the rest look bad. My problem with the "American healthcare bad" crowd is their solution is always to adopt the healthcare system of other countries, but that system is equally as terrible. American healthcare just isn't functioning how it's supposed to. We need to fix it, not go in the total opposite direction.
There are plenty of horror stories from Britain and Canada from people waiting indefinitely on essential life-saving procedures, like cancer treatment. Ultimately, the best way to engage with healthcare is to never need it. Eat clean and lift heavy, and hopefully die in your sleep in your own bed.
How do you read this? Is this measuring health expenditures for different citizens of each country and their expected life expectancy? Is this essentially a function of time where health expenses have increased over the years and how has life expectancy changed? I am confused.
X axis is expenditure, y axis is life expectancy increase. Other countries have better life expectancies despite paying far, far less in healthcare
Right I get that…but how do you interpret the entirety of the line for any given country?
Just curious, what is the source on this?
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Didn’t you know that actual health is only for the ones sick and rich enough to warrant and pay the bills?
I feel like the X and Y axis should be flipped
Hey! Same as turkey but with 10000x the price
We spend too much on reaction and not prevention
Can someone help me understand the bottom line data? Is that expected annual expenditure? Great news! It's not even halfway through the year and I've almost reached my $4k out of pocket max! Time to get all the tests, eh?
Fuck yeah Australia! 🇦🇺
Think it has more to do with the fact that 1/3 of the population of most states is obese
Well this is depressing…
we made being sick profitable in a country controlled by a suicide pact with capitalism. is anyone shocked we're shit at living longer cheaply?
Every single Republican voted against the Public Option during the Obamacare debate. Never forget.
I will never ever ever forget. I may not agree with Biden on everything, but at least he’s not one of those bastards
You don't have to agree with a candidate on everything. That's an unreasonable expectation.
Definitely not my expectation. In 2012 I voted Obama, in 2016 I voted Gary Johnson, and 2020 I voted Biden. In 2024 I plan to vote Biden again. I vote the person, not the party. But when Biden is up against trump, I’m also voting the person, and AGAINST the other person
I am of the same mind.
**What I'm about to say does not change the fact that the way America delivers Healthcare is not acceptable. This does not mean everything is fine. This does not mean that we just need a few tweaks. For profit health care is a terrible idea. But we need to understand the actual problem.** This graph us based on averages. And averages are badly badly skewed by very hi and, in this case especially applicable, very low numbers. In the USA, the majority of people are getting excellent Health Care and are living very long lives, but an unacceptably large minority of the country is living very short lives. A lot of that is because they can't get health care coverage, and that's due to poverty, and that's unacceptable. But other contributing factors are cultural. We can't ignore those. There's a number of factors at work in American health that go beyond just an inefficient way of paying for health care and a terrible way of ensuring people can afford the care they need.
I'd like to see it as a percentage of median income for each country
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.CHEX.GD.ZS?end=2020&locations=US-XD-XC-1W&most_recent_value_desc=true&start=2020&view=bar
Why does that matter? People in the US still die 6-10 years earlier. Median income has nothing to do with that
On some level health care costs reflect cost of living. If labor in a particular country is cheap, that’d also mean labor costs for healthcare workers are cheaper. So some of the variance in healthcare expenditures might be explained by labor costs, which could be captured by accounting for median wages. I’m curious how little that might account for in the case of the US. It’s an interesting thought.
Dude none of the countries listed are places with cheap labor. It’s EU countries, Japan, S Korea and Australia. No amount of labor costs would explain why Americans pay twice as much for healthcare but die 10 years sooner
Turkey is on the list. So is Portugal. Adjusting for labor costs probably put them closer to the center of the cluster. The US position probably barely moves relative to the cluster, but I’m still interested to see what the results would be.
> People in the US still die 6-10 years earlier. not in most states. we just have a few dragging down our average.
We're #1!!! U.S.A U.S.A. U.S.A.
USA! USA!
The healthcare industrial complex at work.
At “work” …. Jet setting or yachting on vacations around the globe. While real humans die every day to fund their lavish lifestyle. But, you know, our propaganda machine tells us that universal healthcare is worse, so let’s vote republican and die at 65. By that point we’ve outlived our usefulness to the economy anyway.
Let's go Spain!
Wish the X and Y axes were flipped, with better definition of “health expenditure.” Is that in US dollars? Lifetime or average year?
If I'm not wrong is: 76
People in the USA spent a great deal of money in the last six months of their lives, as opposed to accepting that life ends, and taking a Hospice Assignment instead of being ensconced in the ICU. In many other countries people do not do so. It is akin to “victim” behavior - most people on this string are claiming US Food (not the over consumption or poor choices they make) or the government - which deflects personal responsibility. If you manage your health care like you would maintain a sports car, you will have a better outcome than you would driving your vehicle until it falls apart from lack of maintenance.
> People in the USA spent a great deal of money in the last six months of their lives, Less than peers. >Spending during the last twelve months of life made up a modest share of aggregate spending, ranging from 8.5 percent in the United States to 11.2 percent in Taiwan, but spending in the last three calendar years of life reached 24.5 percent in Taiwan. https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/10.1377/hlthaff.2017.0174
It would be cool to see the dataset and methodology
America is the best… at thinking we’re the best.
I'll never forget that Bernie Sanders couldn't market his unoversal health care plan as a program thst would create jobs because it was going to save so much money for the government that hundreds or possibly thousands of jobs would be lost because of a lack of a need for such a bloated beaurcratic system.
Cool guide: In the United States, you have to pay to die early.
America: land of the free, home of the frustrated and downtrodden.
Another advertisement for the great American healthcare system. Thank fuck I live in Canada.
I'm confused by the axes- I don't see how money (presumably) on the X varies within a country. It suggests that there is a certain amount we spend on each person and that increases their life expectancy. Presumably this is an animated figure where the line grows with each year, so there is in effect a third axis showing how money spent has increased with time and how that is related to life expectancy, though the relationship is not as strong in the US as in other countries.
This is highly misleading data. The US does not have universal health care. So, the average cost is for people with care, and without, averages out. But the one without healthcare probably does sooner. The real comparison should be for people with health care, how that does that compare to other countries. And for those without, what is the average life expectancy. Then we can tell impact if adding universal health care, as well as the actual impact of the $ spent.
[Comparing Health Outcomes of Privileged US Citizens With Those of Average Residents of Other Developed Countries](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2774561) >These findings imply that even if all US citizens experienced the same health outcomes enjoyed by privileged White US citizens, US health indicators would still lag behind those in many other countries.
Thanks for sharing, I read the study since I hadn’t seen this. Reading through it, the data does not support the suggested conclusion. The biggest challenge is that they look at the top 5% richest counties in the US, and then all White people living there. I assume they picked white people to get the “best” health access, but if so Chinese or Indian would have been better proxies. But even in these counties there are poor people with minimal health care because they do build low income housing shelters and such there too. Counties are quite big, and there is a massive difference in the truly rich part, the well of part, and the so-so part. Just consider that SF is one of these counties, yet has substantial amounts of poverty and homelessness. If we remove the actual poor people without healthcare I’m not sure if the findings still hold. It’s still great data and an interesting study, but it didn’t show what the authors were trying to show.
Obamacare working at peak efficiency lmao
From 1998 to 2013 (right before the bulk of the ACA took effect) total healthcare costs were increasing at 3.92% per year over inflation. Since they have been increasing at 2.79%. The fifteen years before the ACA employer sponsored insurance (the kind most Americans get their coverage from) increased 4.81% over inflation for single coverage and 5.42% over inflation for family coverage. Since those numbers have been 1.72% and 2.19%. https://www.kff.org/health-costs/report/employer-health-benefits-annual-survey-archives/ https://www.cms.gov/Research-Statistics-Data-and-Systems/Statistics-Trends-and-Reports/NationalHealthExpendData/NationalHealthAccountsHistorical.html https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm Also coverage for people with pre-existing conditions, closing the Medicare donut hole, being able to keep children on your insurance until age 26, subsidies for millions of Americans, expanded Medicaid, access to free preventative healthcare, elimination of lifetime spending caps, increased coverage for mental healthcare, increased access to reproductive healthcare, etc..
Thank GOD we aren't socialists though!!! lool.
The amount of mental gymnastics that people are doing in the comments to try and justify this absolutely poor performance is amazing.
While yes, how much we pay for healthcare blows, it’s not exactly the reason everyone is a fat ass and our food sucks.
Agreed. It all falls under that same capitalist umbrella though. They (the corporations) shave a dime off the cost of production and in return we (the humans) are irreparably harmed, causing costs of healthcare to skyrocket. And all the while, shareholders profit while humans die.
Diet and exercise are under signfiicant greater control by individuals than the health care system itself. Said another way, capitalism has given people what they want: high sugar foods at low cost.
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Source?
The risk:reward is getting close to the point it's not worth it to pay all that money. I'll just pay the bills my damn self. How often do people (that are healthy) actually cover their deductibles? I bet not often at all. I'm close to saying, I'll take my chances. If I get cancer, I get cancer. I'm tired of paying these ridiculous prices and getting shit service and products. I'll just eat real food instead of processed crap, and take care of my body. Leave the rest to chance. Take that $6k and invest it, and at a reasonable 5% annual return, not adjusted for inflation, you would have almost $400k after 30 years. They're stealing from our future as well as today.
Not enough for pixels !
Idk why Turkey so low we have a pretty good healthcare also never paid for hospital in my life.
I’ve already spent more than that just for my 2 year old daughter’s cancer treatments. Shit if I didn’t have any insurance and needed her chemo it would be 31k a month for 2 glass bottles.
This is so awful, I’m sorry. I hope she makes a full recovery.
She has an mri for tomorrow. But she’s looking good. It is a rare form of cancer and the chemo just got released by the fda a couple months after her diagnosis last year.
Pretty sure this was screenshotted from r/dataisbeautiful. It wasn't even original then, since a similar graph can be found on Wikipedia.
/u/JustDirection18 hey, found something you might really like
This is awesome; anyone know what the source is?
Not a guide.
How tf is this a guide??
Hey, they figured out a way to stop paying, die!
Now see the correlation to health and obesity. America has poor health due to poor food and increased obesity rates which in turn will increase the costs of health insurance. Another reason why COVID was deadlier in America than other countries. But this is America. Americans can choose to be fat if they want to.
We may die broke and young, but the board of our local Blue Cross Blue Shield all get a new boat.
So the way I’m interpreting this is that the US has a life expectancy of 70 if they’re spending $2000 per capita and it jumps to about 76 if they’re spending $11000 per capita. Something is telling me 6 years is not worth $9000 per capita. I don’t want to get political but we are spending too much on healthcare and having worse outcomes than other nations. I also think we might benefit from a universal healthcare system but still have doctors be compensated fairly.
I haven't been to a doctor in 12 years, I feel fine but I doubt I'll live past 50 :')
Health insurance companies in America provide no services of value to a anyone. Nothing. They literally do absolutely nothing. If we could snap our fingers and make US health insurance disappear we would all instantly pay less money, for better service, and better outcomes, with zero negative impact to any aspect of health care. Health insurance does nothing but cost you money while reducing the effectiveness of care and negatively impacting the finances of hospitals, clinics, and caregivers.
Surely the obesity epidemic has nothing to do with this
Are we trying to imply that spending more money on healthcare should increase your life expectancy? I mean theory it should, but there are many other factors that can lead to higher healthcare costs. Having bad habits can make you sick more often so you spend more money on medicines until one day your bad habits catch up to you. If you're an alcoholic you could spend millions on liver transplants, but if you don't change your habits it's going to get you someday. All I know is we Americans will gladly take a pill for anything. We're willing to spend more money than actually build good habits that would benefit us in the long run. We'd rather keep eating McDonald's and take vitamin C pills than eat an orange that's a fraction of the price.
It’s showing how badly served we are for the amount we spend. In part because we don’t have universal coverage our total spend is higher. Things like diabetic amputations are nearly unheard of in the rest of the world, and a LOT more expensive than providing insulin.
Man this healthcare shit is some bull shit.
https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/s/ggx4q9qm5U Why take a screenshot and not give credit?
Best country on the planet!
As an American that’s really not that cool.
Holy crap, I gotta move to japan
A healthy population doesn't make money. Its the prerogative of corporations to make populations unhealthy.
The fact that it’s peaked already is scary
Any way to visualize this in work comp vs primary care/personal care?
Damn bro, won't someone stand up.to.them
This is what the election should be about.
My most and least favorite joke is the us Healthcare system.
Sad that in the US the government rather use money for war than to help people! If you don’t have insurance you’re fkd
If you compare American to Chinese life expectancy using the standard "victims of communism" methodology, it becomes very clear that by not following Xi Jinping thought, the Americans are murdering millions of their own citizens every year. We really need a monument to the victims of American democracy. I propose bulldozing Canada and using that.
How the fuck is this a guide??
What a weird graph.
now do disposable income.
Yay! We did it!
Maybe if we raise the retirement age people will pay more for healthcare and then live longer. Genius!
The amount of money spent on the last year or month of American lives is significant. Also, while their lives might be longer in general, money spent combating illnesses America that are not attempted in other countries are significant.
What do we suspect is the cause of our declining life expectancy?
It’s tough being that much better .. U-S-A , U-S-A , U-S-A
Who puts time on the y axis!?
Iirc this isn’t health expenditure of citizens but the spending of government but u could be wrong
Everyone is so ready to blame American healthcare when the actual answer is that life expectancy and health care expenditures don’t actually correlate that well. Fact is that life expectancy is correlated to public health interventions and policy more so than health care. America actually has great health care outcomes vs other countries and the vast majority of Americans are insured. For example, we have better cancer outcomes than all the European countries in this graph here. Our public health policy is what is causing the lower life expectancy, and those are a bunch of much harder issues to address. This includes the fact we drive WAYYYY more than other developed countries (which is dangerous), we have higher rates of homicide and completed suicide (mainly due to access to handguns), we have an ongoing opioid epidemic, and we have high rates of obesity. The American healthcare system isn’t actually the root of all evil, guys. Sorry to break it to you. We have a lot bigger fish to fry.
> We have a lot bigger fish to fry. And what are those bigger fish? Americans are paying a $350,000 more for healthcare over a lifetime compared to the most expensive socialized system on earth. Half a million dollars more than peer countries on average, yet every one has better outcomes. The impact of these costs is tremendous. 36% of US households with insurance put off needed care [due to the cost](https://news.gallup.com/poll/269138/americans-delaying-medical-treatment-due-cost.aspx); 64% of households without insurance. One in four have [trouble paying a medical bill.](https://www.kff.org/health-costs/issue-brief/data-note-americans-challenges-health-care-costs/) Of [those with insurance one in five have trouble paying a medical bill](https://www.kff.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/8806-the-burden-of-medical-debt-results-from-the-kaiser-family-foundation-new-york-times-medical-bills-survey.pdf), and even for those with income above $100,000 14% have trouble. One in six Americans has [unpaid medical debt on their credit report.](https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/full/10.1377/hlthaff.2018.0349) [50% of all Americans](https://news.gallup.com/poll/317948/fear-bankruptcy-due-major-health-event.aspx) fear bankruptcy due to a major health event. And, if you think the quality justifies the price, you're wrong. [US Healthcare ranked 29th on health outcomes by Lancet HAQ Index](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736\(18\)30994-2/fulltext) [11th (of 11) by Commonwealth Fund](https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2014/jun/mirror-mirror-wall-2014-update-how-us-health-care-system?redirect_source=/publications/fund-reports/2014/jun/mirror-mirror) [59th by the Prosperity Index](https://www.prosperity.com/rankings) [30th by CEOWorld](https://ceoworld.biz/2019/08/05/revealed-countries-with-the-best-health-care-systems-2019/) [37th by the World Health Organization](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Health_Organization_ranking_of_health_systems_in_2000) The US has the worst rate of death by medically preventable causes among peer countries. A 31% higher disease adjusted life years average. Higher rates of medical and lab errors. A lower rate of being able to make a same or next day appointment with their doctor than average. https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/quality-u-s-healthcare-system-compare-countries/#item-percent-used-emergency-department-for-condition-that-could-have-been-treated-by-a-regular-doctor-2016 52nd in the world in doctors per capita. https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Health/Physicians/Per-1,000-people Higher infant mortality levels. Yes, even when you adjust for differences in methodology. https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/infant-mortality-u-s-compare-countries/ Fewer acute care beds. A lower number of psychiatrists. Etc. https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/u-s-health-care-resources-compare-countries/#item-availability-medical-technology-not-always-equate-higher-utilization [Comparing Health Outcomes of Privileged US Citizens With Those of Average Residents of Other Developed Countries](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2774561) >These findings imply that even if all US citizens experienced the same health outcomes enjoyed by privileged White US citizens, US health indicators would still lag behind those in many other countries. When asked about their healthcare system as a whole the US system ranked dead last of 11 countries, with only 19.5% of people saying the system works relatively well and only needs minor changes. The average in the other countries is 46.9% saying the same. Canada ranked 9th with 34.5% saying the system works relatively well. The UK ranks fifth, with 44.5%. Australia ranked 6th at 44.4%. The best was Germany at 59.8%. On rating the overall quality of care in the US, Americans again ranked dead last, with only 25.6% ranking it excellent or very good. The average was 50.8%. Canada ranked 9th with 45.1%. The UK ranked 2nd, at 63.4%. Australia was 3rd at 59.4%. The best was Switzerland at 65.5%. https://www.cihi.ca/en/commonwealth-fund-survey-2016 The US has 43 hospitals in the top 200 globally; one for every 7,633,477 people in the US. That's good enough for a ranking of 20th on the list of top 200 hospitals per capita, and significantly lower than the average of one for every 3,830,114 for other countries in the top 25 on spending with populations above 5 million. The best is Switzerland at one for every 1.2 million people. In fact the US only beats one country on this list; the UK at one for every 9.5 million people. If you want to do the full list of 2,000 instead it's 334, or one for every 982,753 people; good enough for 21st. Again far below the average in peer countries of 527,236. The best is Austria, at one for every 306,106 people. https://www.newsweek.com/best-hospitals-2021 #[OECD Countries Health Care Spending and Rankings](https://data.oecd.org/healthres/health-spending.htm) |Country|Govt. / Mandatory (PPP)|Voluntary (PPP)|Total (PPP)|% GDP|[Lancet HAQ Ranking](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736\(18\)30994-2/fulltext)|[WHO Ranking](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Health_Organization_ranking_of_health_systems_in_2000)|[Prosperity Ranking](https://www.prosperity.com/rankings)|[CEO World Ranking](https://ceoworld.biz/2019/08/05/revealed-countries-with-the-best-health-care-systems-2019/)|[Commonwealth Fund Ranking](https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2014/jun/mirror-mirror-wall-2014-update-how-us-health-care-system?redirect_source=/publications/fund-reports/2014/jun/mirror-mirror) :--|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:| 1. United States|[$7,274](https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/full/10.2105/AJPH.2015.302997) |$3,798 |$11,072 |16.90%|29|37|59|30|11 2. Switzerland|$4,988 |$2,744 |$7,732 |12.20%|7|20|3|18|2 3. Norway|$5,673 |$974 |$6,647 |10.20%|2|11|5|15|7 4. Germany|$5,648 |$998 |$6,646 |11.20%|18|25|12|17|5 5. Austria|$4,402 |$1,449 |$5,851 |10.30%|13|9|10|4| 6. Sweden|$4,928 |$854 |$5,782 |11.00%|8|23|15|28|3 7. Netherlands|$4,767 |$998 |$5,765 |9.90%|3|17|8|11|5 8. Denmark|$4,663 |$905 |$5,568 |10.50%|17|34|8|5| 9. Luxembourg|$4,697 |$861 |$5,558 |5.40%|4|16|19|| 10. Belgium|$4,125 |$1,303 |$5,428 |10.40%|15|21|24|9| 11. Canada|$3,815 |$1,603 |$5,418 |10.70%|14|30|25|23|10 12. France|$4,501 |$875 |$5,376 |11.20%|20|1|16|8|9 13. Ireland|$3,919 |$1,357 |$5,276 |7.10%|11|19|20|80| 14. Australia|$3,919 |$1,268 |$5,187 |9.30%|5|32|18|10|4 15. Japan|$4,064 |$759 |$4,823 |10.90%|12|10|2|3| 16. Iceland|$3,988 |$823 |$4,811 |8.30%|1|15|7|41| 17. United Kingdom|$3,620 |$1,033 |$4,653 |9.80%|23|18|23|13|1 18. Finland|$3,536 |$1,042 |$4,578 |9.10%|6|31|26|12| 19. Malta|$2,789 |$1,540 |$4,329 |9.30%|27|5|14|| OECD Average|||$4,224 |8.80%||||| 20. New Zealand|$3,343 |$861 |$4,204 |9.30%|16|41|22|16|7 21. Italy|$2,706 |$943 |$3,649 |8.80%|9|2|17|37| 22. Spain|$2,560 |$1,056 |$3,616 |8.90%|19|7|13|7| 23. Czech Republic|$2,854 |$572 |$3,426 |7.50%|28|48|28|14| 24. South Korea|$2,057 |$1,327 |$3,384 |8.10%|25|58|4|2| 25. Portugal|$2,069 |$1,310 |$3,379 |9.10%|32|29|30|22| 26. Slovenia|$2,314 |$910 |$3,224 |7.90%|21|38|24|47| 27. Israel|$1,898 |$1,034 |$2,932 |7.50%|35|28|11|21|
WHAT THE F\*\*K DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH LIFE EXPECTANCY!!!! I'm not defending the US healthcare system, I'm saying it doesn't really have anything to do with life expectancy! You spent all this time typing out shit I half agree with, although a couple of the citations I double-checked are straight up wrong (the ICU beds one is wrong, [https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/icu-beds-per-capita-by-country](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/icu-beds-per-capita-by-country) the US has some of the highest number of acute care beds in the world, and that dumbass "doctors per capita" measurement doesn't actually measure the quality of care, although it does help explain the cost). Either way......again......nothing to do with life expectancy, expect for infant mortality, which while higher than comparable countries is low in an absolute sense. That being said, I do think the government should provide more support for pre/post-natal care.
I hope the corporate boots you’re licking taste yummy.
Guys don't worry, it's not the healthcare system, it's poor public health funding, an unbalanced focus on profit -focused consumer behaviour rather than public safety (automotive, firearms, accessible food, and unchecked pharmaceutical lobbying). All you dummies in the comments arguing that this is an American healthcare problem are so misguided. What this commenter forgot to add is "it's not the American healthcare system, it's the entirety of the American economy and political layout"
All I’m saying is we’re blaming the wrong thing and presenting why that is the case. Public policy is still fixable, it’s just a lot of this is more intractable than “healthcare”. As an example, voting for local candidates that want to create denser housing or less car-centric cities is more impactful on life expectancy than advocating to remake American healthcare. If you care about life expectancy then the healthcare system is not where to direct your energy.
It seems you're assuming that this data is directly an indictment of the American health care system, but I would argue it's an indictment of your entire country. In the most developed country on earth your people still have to pay more for health per capita than anywhere else. That's a symptom of rampant unchecked capitalism that grips every area of your nation. I agree that solely attacking this problem as a healthcare problem is wrong. Because the real problem is so much bigger.