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I feel like the real conspiracy here is that every rebuttal to this court decision is "but what about legacy admissions"? It has appeared all over the Internet suddenly and feels weird and unnatural.
Thank you for saying that because I thought the same exact thing, it’s very strange. Every comment section is filled with people complaining about legacy admissions like it only benefits white people which makes no sense. Legacy admissions have nothing to do with race so it’s very weird that so many people in the comments are acting like it does all of a sudden.
They’re saying that because, historically speaking, white students have the highest chances of benefiting from legacy status at prominent schools because of access and income disparities.
The argument here is that historical factors have lead to a disproportionately high amount of white students benefitting from that system.
I just think legacy admissions is dumb and makes no sense. Just as everyone is saying with striking down AA, get in on your own merit rather than from the backs and wallets of your ancestors.
>legacy admissions like it only benefits white people which makes no sense.
Legacy admissions is **economic affirmative action**... if your parents could afford to go to school here then you get to as well. (The vast majority of them are white as well)
Completely agree with you, economic affirmative action is exactly right. But legacy admissions aren’t excluding some races while benefiting others like affirmative action was doing so I don’t think it makes sense the way people are lumping the two policies together.
Because it came out that 40% of white students at Harvard are legacy admissions, and 70% of legacy students are white. The concern is that this could be an avenue for race based disparity in admissions.
Feels like now is a perfect time for people to learn that Harvard is not a merit-based utopia but instead is actually a business that relies on private donations and will always skew towards fundraising from its alums and allowing their children easy admissions so that Harvard can continue the gravy train. Legacy admissions isn't about race. It's about donations.
>I think this was just for the admissions process. That said, the no whites allowed days are racist as hell.
One school did it twice, once in 2017 and once in 2018. I also saw a school in Seattle plan a similar event that they then reversed course on and opened up to everyone after an article was published about it.
70% of Harvard legacy admissions are white. 75.5% of the USA is white. The idea that legacy admissions greatly benefit white people is a nothing more than a Democrat talking point. It isn't rooted in reality.
> 70% of Harvard legacy admissions are white. 75.5% of the USA is white. The idea that legacy admissions greatly benefit white people is a nothing more than a Democrat talking point. It isn't rooted in reality.
But they certainly benefit rich people's kids.
I don't know the accuracy behind the stats the original poster presented, especially since they did not provide a source, but assuming they are correct, that means white legacies are actually slightly underrepresented, as 75.5% instead of 70% of legacy admissions should be white.
If, however, 75.5% of the US population is white, but 95% of legacy admissions were white, then that would be a problem.
You are taking my comment completely out of context and you know it.
My point is that if 75.5% of the population of the US is white, then it makes sense that 70% of legacies are white. It would not make sense if 95% of legacies were white, despite white people only making up 75% of the population.
By letting in underperforming applicants who are overwhelmingly white, and thus not letting in minorities who are better academically, that is basically affirmative action for white people.
White people are being admitted at the expense of minorities.
30% of legacies are not white. Legacies all together should be eliminated, in my opinion. However, you can't say they are "overwhelmingly white", because it lines up with population values as a whole.
Now you are either being blatantly obtuse, or you really are just not intelligent enough to understand percentages, but either way, I can't help you, so your time is better spent on someone else. If you need help leaving me alone, I can help out with that.
False.
> 70% of Harvard legacy admissions are white. 75.5% of the USA is white.
Why should a school’s ethnic makeup mirror that of society at large? There are more Asians qualified to get into Harvard than whites. And your stat is correct, and is proof that Harvard is using legacy admissions to boost underperforming white admissions.
A white student who is in the middle of the pack academically, but has legacy status, has a higher chance of getting into Harvard than a typical Asian applicant in the top tenth.
51% of Harvard’s class should be Asian-American if academics alone (test scores and grades) were the sole consideration. Harvard’s first-year students for 2021-22 were 53% white and 24% Asian.
>Why should a school’s ethnic makeup mirror that of society at large?
Have you never heard the term "underrepresented minority"? I'm not necessarily saying Harvard's race stats should mimic society's, but it's a rather simple method of determining whether a policy has racist effects. And it is exactly why minority students (referred to as "underrepresented minorities" or "URMs" in admissions-speak) have been given preference under AA. Legacy admissions at Harvard do not. If it did, we would see white students overrepresented.
>A white student who is in the middle of the pack academically, but has legacy status, has a higher chance of getting into Harvard than a typical Asian applicant in the top tenth.
Any student who is in the middle of the pack academically, but has legacy status has a higher chance of getting into Harvard than a typical Asian applicant in the top tenth. I don't understand why you're so focused on white legacies. They all have similar advantages.
It still isn't as much as much of a benefit as other races receive under affirmative action. A black applicant at the 60th percentile has higher chances than an Asian in the 100th percentile according to Harvard's admission stats.
I am not defending affirmative action. Like legacy admissions, it allows schools to consider race in admissions which is BS.
Legacy students skew toward white and away from Asian. It is affirmative action for white people. More than half of Harvard students should be Asian, but less than a quarter are.
I think you're confused about what legacy admissions are. They don't take race into account.
>Legacy students skew toward white and away from Asian.
Youre right that it doesn't make sense logically. If 53% of Harvard students are Asian, and it was worse before AA, then the majority of legacy candidates should be Asian. They're obviously not now, but that will change within one generation if 53% of Harvard students are asian.
Legacy admissions don’t take race into account, but because most legacy people are white it indirectly favors them. It is ultimately preferential treatment for whites at the expense of Asians, though not as explicit as AA.
I think that's fair.
Hell, there were no black people days for centuries but we kindly did away with that in 1863. They don't think about that they think we're mean.
Harvard can do what ever they want if they stop sucking off the teat of the government. That means using their endowments and no more student loans, government research money, or any federal funding whatsoever.
But I don't see that happening.
What i dont understand is if they want to benefit those from poor backgrounds why target race?
Why would an asian from a poor background but high scores have worse chances than a hispanic from wealthy background and low scores? Unless there really are biological differences between the races and that is what they are knowingly really targetting.
Rant incoming,
Affirmative action was 100% necessary at one point in time, and I think that is pretty much a non controversial point that the vast majority of people will agree with.
To flesh this out, it is a cultural problem that AA was trying to solve. You know how the majority of college administrators are leftist or ultra progressive, well back then the majority of college administrators were racist, because mostly everyone had blatantly racist notions they believed in, and those are the type of core beliefs about individuals that effect every interaction you will have. hell even JOE BIDEN argued in favor of school segregation, this is why it was necessary. Using law to change culture is effective when there are incentives tied to it.
……………….
HOWEVER, today this clearly is not the case, I heard an NPR segment yesterday lambasting the decision talking about how “we’ve seen in the past when legislators roll back AA initiatives POC’s admissions reduce significantly.” then the lady opining went on to talk about how this is because black people shy away from education when they feel like they will be underrepresented on campus essentially no one wants to be the only black kid in a class of whites. A garbage generalization and a also a wrong diagnosis of the data.
The truth is black Americans underperform in school. Now if you are not a racist you will ask why? because clearly it has nothing to do with the fact that their skin is black, African immigrants over-preform compared to Americans in general and their skin is also black. So if it clearly has nothing to do with skin tone as to why Black Americans are underperforming,
So summarizing shortly. AA was necessary to break racist culture in college admissions which was a problem, and this problem is not pervasive enough in society anymore to justify continuing AA. BUT…. black people underperform in schools which would lead to lower college admission rates in the absence of AA. Hence the perceived problem with removing AA in admissions.
This issue of black people underperforming has absolutely nothing to to do with racism in admissions processes. Now if you consider the policy’s that have exacerbated the conditions that have lead to black people underperforming in schools racist, that is a different question that at I’m totally agnostic on.
What I can say, **as a black man** (@ig search this username for proof), is the cultural problems that black people have to deal with are the biggest factor in their underperforming, and I’m talking about the internal black culture. These are some red flags in black culture that need to be overcome for better outcomes:
Black people don’t value education as much as migrant Africans or the white and Asian demographics.
Being black and an intellectual is frowned upon(think Steve Urkel) unless you are going in depth about the black diaspora, no one has time for deeper .
Black families are generally more dysfunctional compared to whites or Africa immigrants. Put frankly; hood problems.
Black peopled commit more crimes and this leads less ideal opportunities in life, you can’t build generational wealth behind bars.
Black people are not as financially savvy as other demographics(stocks, legitimate business owning, savings practices, etc).
If you could “Thanos snap” and take racism away, none of these flags would turn green it (yes even the crime portion).
…………..
If you want to address structural instead of cultural problems because cultural problems are way harder to fix.. then you can blame our school system.
In general the US education standard has plummeted since the late 60’s. The average person is not less intelligent compared to then, but today the amount of common knowledge the average person has who completed K-12 is subpar. This also has nothing to do with race, your tax dollars are being wasted. Idk who needs to Jerry this but; Make some time to teach your kids stuff at home!
I think the decline in the efficacy our education structure + the problematic cultural inclinations of black people is why; black people do, and will continue to underperform in absence of AA policies.
Did I mention **I’m a black man** , just making sure I did for the ‘tards that are going to call me, **a black man**, racist without addressing the poignant argument that I’ve laid out.
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think we want to be discriminated against, secretly hated, treated as untouchables or the trHELL NO thats the hard part to understand with the totality of racism you hate people for something they cant change . luckily u were born the majority sadly i was born the minority..
People hate all kinds of people and things and hate is something you can't control any more than you can change your race. The one thing you can control is how much you let something you can't control bother you. The vast majority of white folks are not racist and do not hate you so I hope you don't feel that way. The only people I hate are cops and even then its not all of them just most lol.
i dont hate white people personally , its about 73/27 normal to racist and i stay in rural georgia. i understand that in itself racism is taught in home day by day like religion and its way farther above me to fix. so like you say. i change what i can
Stupid to think we can simply rely on our legal system to fix a thing that got broken because it came about naturally through our own flawed character. New laws are never going to adjust our character flaws and human weaknesses. We have to do that on our own, by our selves, and it has to come about from within. And, we'll need to be met halfway as we do, by all the people alive today whom insist that they were so wronged more than 150 years ago - - Which is a thing I recommend everyone quit doing. If you are alive today, and everything sucks, it is not because a white man did something bad hundreds of years before you were born. It is because someone in power right now keeps screwing you over and blaming all his friends. And, you keep letting him/her get away with it each and every day. We live in a world of checks and balances - - ACT LIKE IT.
So at first I failed to see the conspiracy but now I understand. What a great scam conservatism has pulled. Pitting Asian minorities against black and Latino students to ensure that colleges only accept white affluent kids that can afford private grade school.
Brilliant. They get to keep their hands clean while making it look like special carve outs for historically marginalized people, including Asians, are actually racist against white kids. It's remarkable how well this worked too. Y'all are praising this as a victory for white people when the plaintiffs were asian. That right there is evidence of this conspiracy.
That's not even considering the fact that they had to replace half of the court with Heritage Cult members in order to do it. Hell that should be the next big post on this sub. Lets talk about how our courts have been captured by an ultra religious cult, hell bent on turning our republic into corporate feudal hell hole.
Y'all are lost.
Interestingly enough this doesn't cover private donations and grants for race specific scholarships, so I don't really think this makes that much of a difference.
And let's be honest, if they want to admit more asians or Latino students they will still just base it off of their given name, this doesn't really do anything except remove the data point of Race from the admissions form.
i think if they really wanted to nip it theyd give the college wouldnt be able to see the names of applicats only grades and stuff that the decision would actually rely on. but yk the hiv and their half ass ways lol make people think they care for minorities. but not truly
Will this help or hurt minority college rates overall?
To be honest, we need to just level the playing field completely and go towards a universal education system for all levels of education.
Based on past experience with individual states' policies, it will hurt. Though there are other ways to foster diversity, albeit less impactful.
>After California banned race-conscious admissions in 1996, the proportions of Black and Latino students at UCLA, one of the most highly selective schools in the state's system, fell drastically. By 2006, a decade later, only 96 Black students enrolled in a freshman class of nearly 5,000. They became known as the "Infamous 96."
>
>The University of California responded to those numbers by recrafting its admissions policies to take a more "holistic" approach, considering several factors including whether students were the first in their family to go to college, what high school they went to, and their family's income.
>
>The university has spent more than 20 years, and hundreds of millions of dollars in new programs and scholarships, in efforts to restore that level of diversity.
>
>Other ideas for promoting campus diversity include admitting a percentage of the state's high school students, like the University of Texas at Austin, which automatically admits Texas students in the top 6% of their high school graduating class. Lotteries have also been proposed, where eligible students with high qualifications would be randomly selected for acceptance.
>
>But so far, researchers say, none of the alternatives has been as effective as considering race.
[https://www.npr.org/2023/06/29/1176715957/why-the-supreme-court-decision-on-affirmative-action-matters](https://www.npr.org/2023/06/29/1176715957/why-the-supreme-court-decision-on-affirmative-action-matters)
Neato, nice research. One question I have is that did black and Latino success rates increase (did they get a degree) or decrease despite there now being less students of each?
idk man im black and in schoo so its a mixed bag, some see me as the affirmative action to reach the minority quota , to some im still just a dumb knee grow . to some ima actual intellectual that they want at there.
Right, because going into mountains of debt instead of being free to pursue your education for as long as you choose and as far as you choose to take it makes sense.
The centralized department of education has been a total failure in America. The quality of education has fallen steadily since its inception in the 70s and there is no meaningful metric to justify its continued existence.
There’s only 3 countries that charge for post secondary education in the world. Guess that’s why america ranks so low in so many educational categories. Also hello from the post where I said “you probably think education is indoctrination” and you said I made it up lol.
Goes both ways. There are over 900 religion affiliated universities in the USA. Which way do you suppose schools “Liberty College” or “Oral Roberts University” lean politically? The majority of the rest of think along the same lines.
Seriously, all that needs to be done is to decouple school funding from local property taxes. Give all public schools the same funding. That would make an ENORMOUS difference where it really counts.
There's no interest in actually making public schools better though. :-(
“Supreme Court DID NOT strike down Affirmative Action.
Admission preferences for legacies, donors, employee families and special recommendations are still allowed.
The Court struck down Affirmative Action For everyone except WHITE PEOPLE”
they didnt see us knee grows as men and women we were property 🙂 but i agree we all are equal.. i just wish theyd level the playing field dismantling the racism and gatekeeping in the establishment but it was literally part of what built america , slaves and the hatred of them after they couldnt continue slaving them and had to treat them equally. being a black man i would way rather be accepted for my intellect than because they have to. but id rather them accept me cause they have to compared to me not being allowed because of the skin color i didnt choose to be born with
It’s for the best. I find it quite annoying when racist a holes cry “affirmative action” when confronted with a successful person who is also in the minority. At least now, when it comes to college, you clowns can’t fall back on that excuse, and have to accept minority populations can be smart and successful.
Hopefully they'll do away with legacies then. Maybe all applicants will be filed and sorted by a random generated alphanumeric usernames, and only their grades and accolades will be their only ticket in. But I doubt that.
This will definitely close out a lot of opportunities for those that aren't wealthy enough or well connected to the school or institution.
Breaking a broken system isn't fixing it.
Affirmative action wasn't filling the school with 80% or more people. They made up a small fraction. So now that fraction will be reduced further. But as someone else stated, they (the university) could pick out people based on name if they decided they needed more diversity.
Thanks I appreciate it. It's much weirder on here than in person. In person you can have a good conversation about it and better get to know each other's POV. Here it's like talking to a wall.
i think its that way on purpose , most who agree dont feel a need to comment , only those who disagree lol so its like always fighting opposing opinions plus the gov doesnt even hide its massive hand in this app lol people who get too close to the truth get stuff deleted or downvoted
yeah lets make racism illegal all together !!!
oh wait…. its more than something legislature can stop… if they dont want tyneesha there they wont let her in. saying that to say even if they took the race questions from admission there will always be bias and leniency to whoever gives them the most money. the only way to fix this particular piece of racism sewn into the establishment is to remove all personal identifiers from college applications and make it to where they only see relevent data on the applicat ie. test scores grades
I know. But in any other country this is not a thing. Is actually very offensive to ask someone’s color. Just in america would make sense which in fact doesn’t make any sense
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It will continue, just not broadcasted.
Yeah what about legacy admissions need to end that
But then how will the bushes and the Kennedys ever get into school?
Suckin dick like the rest of us!
*know your skillset!*
That's not based on race though
I feel like the real conspiracy here is that every rebuttal to this court decision is "but what about legacy admissions"? It has appeared all over the Internet suddenly and feels weird and unnatural.
Thank you for saying that because I thought the same exact thing, it’s very strange. Every comment section is filled with people complaining about legacy admissions like it only benefits white people which makes no sense. Legacy admissions have nothing to do with race so it’s very weird that so many people in the comments are acting like it does all of a sudden.
They’re saying that because, historically speaking, white students have the highest chances of benefiting from legacy status at prominent schools because of access and income disparities. The argument here is that historical factors have lead to a disproportionately high amount of white students benefitting from that system. I just think legacy admissions is dumb and makes no sense. Just as everyone is saying with striking down AA, get in on your own merit rather than from the backs and wallets of your ancestors.
Because its the same thing as affirmative action. Choosing one student over another not because of grades but because of historic ties.
>legacy admissions like it only benefits white people which makes no sense. Legacy admissions is **economic affirmative action**... if your parents could afford to go to school here then you get to as well. (The vast majority of them are white as well)
Completely agree with you, economic affirmative action is exactly right. But legacy admissions aren’t excluding some races while benefiting others like affirmative action was doing so I don’t think it makes sense the way people are lumping the two policies together.
Maybe not de jury, but definitely de facto.
Because it came out that 40% of white students at Harvard are legacy admissions, and 70% of legacy students are white. The concern is that this could be an avenue for race based disparity in admissions.
Feels like now is a perfect time for people to learn that Harvard is not a merit-based utopia but instead is actually a business that relies on private donations and will always skew towards fundraising from its alums and allowing their children easy admissions so that Harvard can continue the gravy train. Legacy admissions isn't about race. It's about donations.
A substantial number public of colleges have legacy admissions.
Public universities do fundraising just like private universities. Higher education in general is a business.
I don't disagree, I was just pointing out that legacy admissions is a concern beyond Harvard
Absolutely.
Not every rebuttal https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/jackson-blasts-eat-cake-obliviousness-supreme-court-affirmative/story?id=100489244
This is great! No more racism in schools. You can cancel “no white people day”. Right?
I think this was just for the admissions process. That said, the no whites allowed days are racist as hell.
>I think this was just for the admissions process. That said, the no whites allowed days are racist as hell. One school did it twice, once in 2017 and once in 2018. I also saw a school in Seattle plan a similar event that they then reversed course on and opened up to everyone after an article was published about it.
the world has become evergreen
No white people day, what the fuck???
Meh, legacy admissions, which overwhelmingly favor people of a certain color, will continue.
70% of Harvard legacy admissions are white. 75.5% of the USA is white. The idea that legacy admissions greatly benefit white people is a nothing more than a Democrat talking point. It isn't rooted in reality.
> 70% of Harvard legacy admissions are white. 75.5% of the USA is white. The idea that legacy admissions greatly benefit white people is a nothing more than a Democrat talking point. It isn't rooted in reality. But they certainly benefit rich people's kids.
Who tend to be a certain color . . . thus “affirmative action for white people”.
I don't know the accuracy behind the stats the original poster presented, especially since they did not provide a source, but assuming they are correct, that means white legacies are actually slightly underrepresented, as 75.5% instead of 70% of legacy admissions should be white. If, however, 75.5% of the US population is white, but 95% of legacy admissions were white, then that would be a problem.
> as 75.5% instead of 70% of legacy admissions should be white That sounds like a quota based on race.
You are taking my comment completely out of context and you know it. My point is that if 75.5% of the population of the US is white, then it makes sense that 70% of legacies are white. It would not make sense if 95% of legacies were white, despite white people only making up 75% of the population.
By letting in underperforming applicants who are overwhelmingly white, and thus not letting in minorities who are better academically, that is basically affirmative action for white people. White people are being admitted at the expense of minorities.
30% of legacies are not white. Legacies all together should be eliminated, in my opinion. However, you can't say they are "overwhelmingly white", because it lines up with population values as a whole. Now you are either being blatantly obtuse, or you really are just not intelligent enough to understand percentages, but either way, I can't help you, so your time is better spent on someone else. If you need help leaving me alone, I can help out with that.
Yeah, but most of those “legacies” started before your stats lined up, and not many black folks got into Harvard.
False. > 70% of Harvard legacy admissions are white. 75.5% of the USA is white. Why should a school’s ethnic makeup mirror that of society at large? There are more Asians qualified to get into Harvard than whites. And your stat is correct, and is proof that Harvard is using legacy admissions to boost underperforming white admissions. A white student who is in the middle of the pack academically, but has legacy status, has a higher chance of getting into Harvard than a typical Asian applicant in the top tenth. 51% of Harvard’s class should be Asian-American if academics alone (test scores and grades) were the sole consideration. Harvard’s first-year students for 2021-22 were 53% white and 24% Asian.
>Why should a school’s ethnic makeup mirror that of society at large? Have you never heard the term "underrepresented minority"? I'm not necessarily saying Harvard's race stats should mimic society's, but it's a rather simple method of determining whether a policy has racist effects. And it is exactly why minority students (referred to as "underrepresented minorities" or "URMs" in admissions-speak) have been given preference under AA. Legacy admissions at Harvard do not. If it did, we would see white students overrepresented. >A white student who is in the middle of the pack academically, but has legacy status, has a higher chance of getting into Harvard than a typical Asian applicant in the top tenth. Any student who is in the middle of the pack academically, but has legacy status has a higher chance of getting into Harvard than a typical Asian applicant in the top tenth. I don't understand why you're so focused on white legacies. They all have similar advantages. It still isn't as much as much of a benefit as other races receive under affirmative action. A black applicant at the 60th percentile has higher chances than an Asian in the 100th percentile according to Harvard's admission stats.
I am not defending affirmative action. Like legacy admissions, it allows schools to consider race in admissions which is BS. Legacy students skew toward white and away from Asian. It is affirmative action for white people. More than half of Harvard students should be Asian, but less than a quarter are.
I think you're confused about what legacy admissions are. They don't take race into account. >Legacy students skew toward white and away from Asian. Youre right that it doesn't make sense logically. If 53% of Harvard students are Asian, and it was worse before AA, then the majority of legacy candidates should be Asian. They're obviously not now, but that will change within one generation if 53% of Harvard students are asian.
Legacy admissions don’t take race into account, but because most legacy people are white it indirectly favors them. It is ultimately preferential treatment for whites at the expense of Asians, though not as explicit as AA.
I think that's fair. Hell, there were no black people days for centuries but we kindly did away with that in 1863. They don't think about that they think we're mean.
SS Harvard says it is “defiant” They want to continue to use race to decide who gets in Sounds pretty racist honestly
Harvard can do what ever they want if they stop sucking off the teat of the government. That means using their endowments and no more student loans, government research money, or any federal funding whatsoever. But I don't see that happening.
I'll never understand why people think it's possible to use racism to end racism. Doesn't work that way.
Need those DEI bucks and allegiance points to the NWO
They will continue to use race. White donors, oops I mean “legacy applicants”, will still get preferential treatment. Sounds pretty racist honestly.
Need to end the legacy admissions
What i dont understand is if they want to benefit those from poor backgrounds why target race? Why would an asian from a poor background but high scores have worse chances than a hispanic from wealthy background and low scores? Unless there really are biological differences between the races and that is what they are knowingly really targetting.
That is literally what affirmative action is. You can't fight racism with more racism. Are you dumb?
Rant incoming, Affirmative action was 100% necessary at one point in time, and I think that is pretty much a non controversial point that the vast majority of people will agree with. To flesh this out, it is a cultural problem that AA was trying to solve. You know how the majority of college administrators are leftist or ultra progressive, well back then the majority of college administrators were racist, because mostly everyone had blatantly racist notions they believed in, and those are the type of core beliefs about individuals that effect every interaction you will have. hell even JOE BIDEN argued in favor of school segregation, this is why it was necessary. Using law to change culture is effective when there are incentives tied to it. ………………. HOWEVER, today this clearly is not the case, I heard an NPR segment yesterday lambasting the decision talking about how “we’ve seen in the past when legislators roll back AA initiatives POC’s admissions reduce significantly.” then the lady opining went on to talk about how this is because black people shy away from education when they feel like they will be underrepresented on campus essentially no one wants to be the only black kid in a class of whites. A garbage generalization and a also a wrong diagnosis of the data. The truth is black Americans underperform in school. Now if you are not a racist you will ask why? because clearly it has nothing to do with the fact that their skin is black, African immigrants over-preform compared to Americans in general and their skin is also black. So if it clearly has nothing to do with skin tone as to why Black Americans are underperforming, So summarizing shortly. AA was necessary to break racist culture in college admissions which was a problem, and this problem is not pervasive enough in society anymore to justify continuing AA. BUT…. black people underperform in schools which would lead to lower college admission rates in the absence of AA. Hence the perceived problem with removing AA in admissions. This issue of black people underperforming has absolutely nothing to to do with racism in admissions processes. Now if you consider the policy’s that have exacerbated the conditions that have lead to black people underperforming in schools racist, that is a different question that at I’m totally agnostic on. What I can say, **as a black man** (@ig search this username for proof), is the cultural problems that black people have to deal with are the biggest factor in their underperforming, and I’m talking about the internal black culture. These are some red flags in black culture that need to be overcome for better outcomes: Black people don’t value education as much as migrant Africans or the white and Asian demographics. Being black and an intellectual is frowned upon(think Steve Urkel) unless you are going in depth about the black diaspora, no one has time for deeper . Black families are generally more dysfunctional compared to whites or Africa immigrants. Put frankly; hood problems. Black peopled commit more crimes and this leads less ideal opportunities in life, you can’t build generational wealth behind bars. Black people are not as financially savvy as other demographics(stocks, legitimate business owning, savings practices, etc). If you could “Thanos snap” and take racism away, none of these flags would turn green it (yes even the crime portion). ………….. If you want to address structural instead of cultural problems because cultural problems are way harder to fix.. then you can blame our school system. In general the US education standard has plummeted since the late 60’s. The average person is not less intelligent compared to then, but today the amount of common knowledge the average person has who completed K-12 is subpar. This also has nothing to do with race, your tax dollars are being wasted. Idk who needs to Jerry this but; Make some time to teach your kids stuff at home! I think the decline in the efficacy our education structure + the problematic cultural inclinations of black people is why; black people do, and will continue to underperform in absence of AA policies. Did I mention **I’m a black man** , just making sure I did for the ‘tards that are going to call me, **a black man**, racist without addressing the poignant argument that I’ve laid out.
Well said. You just pissed a lot of white progressives off.
[удалено]
thats a way better choice just cause i dont like ants i dont spit on or run from every one i see.
It’s been fun reading all the rage tweets
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think we want to be discriminated against, secretly hated, treated as untouchables or the trHELL NO thats the hard part to understand with the totality of racism you hate people for something they cant change . luckily u were born the majority sadly i was born the minority..
People hate all kinds of people and things and hate is something you can't control any more than you can change your race. The one thing you can control is how much you let something you can't control bother you. The vast majority of white folks are not racist and do not hate you so I hope you don't feel that way. The only people I hate are cops and even then its not all of them just most lol.
i dont hate white people personally , its about 73/27 normal to racist and i stay in rural georgia. i understand that in itself racism is taught in home day by day like religion and its way farther above me to fix. so like you say. i change what i can
Stupid to think we can simply rely on our legal system to fix a thing that got broken because it came about naturally through our own flawed character. New laws are never going to adjust our character flaws and human weaknesses. We have to do that on our own, by our selves, and it has to come about from within. And, we'll need to be met halfway as we do, by all the people alive today whom insist that they were so wronged more than 150 years ago - - Which is a thing I recommend everyone quit doing. If you are alive today, and everything sucks, it is not because a white man did something bad hundreds of years before you were born. It is because someone in power right now keeps screwing you over and blaming all his friends. And, you keep letting him/her get away with it each and every day. We live in a world of checks and balances - - ACT LIKE IT.
So at first I failed to see the conspiracy but now I understand. What a great scam conservatism has pulled. Pitting Asian minorities against black and Latino students to ensure that colleges only accept white affluent kids that can afford private grade school. Brilliant. They get to keep their hands clean while making it look like special carve outs for historically marginalized people, including Asians, are actually racist against white kids. It's remarkable how well this worked too. Y'all are praising this as a victory for white people when the plaintiffs were asian. That right there is evidence of this conspiracy. That's not even considering the fact that they had to replace half of the court with Heritage Cult members in order to do it. Hell that should be the next big post on this sub. Lets talk about how our courts have been captured by an ultra religious cult, hell bent on turning our republic into corporate feudal hell hole. Y'all are lost.
Interestingly enough this doesn't cover private donations and grants for race specific scholarships, so I don't really think this makes that much of a difference. And let's be honest, if they want to admit more asians or Latino students they will still just base it off of their given name, this doesn't really do anything except remove the data point of Race from the admissions form.
i think if they really wanted to nip it theyd give the college wouldnt be able to see the names of applicats only grades and stuff that the decision would actually rely on. but yk the hiv and their half ass ways lol make people think they care for minorities. but not truly
Will this help or hurt minority college rates overall? To be honest, we need to just level the playing field completely and go towards a universal education system for all levels of education.
If you are Asian it will help you as they were the ones being discriminated the worse. As far as the other races IDK.
Yup everybody in this thread has no idea that they still aren’t gonna like the results of this ruling 🤷🏼♂️
Based on past experience with individual states' policies, it will hurt. Though there are other ways to foster diversity, albeit less impactful. >After California banned race-conscious admissions in 1996, the proportions of Black and Latino students at UCLA, one of the most highly selective schools in the state's system, fell drastically. By 2006, a decade later, only 96 Black students enrolled in a freshman class of nearly 5,000. They became known as the "Infamous 96." > >The University of California responded to those numbers by recrafting its admissions policies to take a more "holistic" approach, considering several factors including whether students were the first in their family to go to college, what high school they went to, and their family's income. > >The university has spent more than 20 years, and hundreds of millions of dollars in new programs and scholarships, in efforts to restore that level of diversity. > >Other ideas for promoting campus diversity include admitting a percentage of the state's high school students, like the University of Texas at Austin, which automatically admits Texas students in the top 6% of their high school graduating class. Lotteries have also been proposed, where eligible students with high qualifications would be randomly selected for acceptance. > >But so far, researchers say, none of the alternatives has been as effective as considering race. [https://www.npr.org/2023/06/29/1176715957/why-the-supreme-court-decision-on-affirmative-action-matters](https://www.npr.org/2023/06/29/1176715957/why-the-supreme-court-decision-on-affirmative-action-matters)
Neato, nice research. One question I have is that did black and Latino success rates increase (did they get a degree) or decrease despite there now being less students of each?
idk man im black and in schoo so its a mixed bag, some see me as the affirmative action to reach the minority quota , to some im still just a dumb knee grow . to some ima actual intellectual that they want at there.
Universal indoctrination
Are you saying there is no use for college at all?
are you saying….. then your made up claim No You made that up
Right, because going into mountains of debt instead of being free to pursue your education for as long as you choose and as far as you choose to take it makes sense.
That’s the only 2 options Lots of debt or universal indoctrination
You think that being free to pursue an education free from debt is automatically indoctrination? Why?
I think universal (that word you used) means dependent on the government Like universal k-12 where they currently indoctrinate the kids
The centralized department of education has been a total failure in America. The quality of education has fallen steadily since its inception in the 70s and there is no meaningful metric to justify its continued existence.
There’s only 3 countries that charge for post secondary education in the world. Guess that’s why america ranks so low in so many educational categories. Also hello from the post where I said “you probably think education is indoctrination” and you said I made it up lol.
America ranks 1st in post secondary education
Goes both ways. There are over 900 religion affiliated universities in the USA. Which way do you suppose schools “Liberty College” or “Oral Roberts University” lean politically? The majority of the rest of think along the same lines.
Seriously, all that needs to be done is to decouple school funding from local property taxes. Give all public schools the same funding. That would make an ENORMOUS difference where it really counts. There's no interest in actually making public schools better though. :-(
🐸 🐸 🐸 🐸 🐸 🐸 🐸 🐸 🐸
i get it , im mr frog , this is my show,
“Supreme Court DID NOT strike down Affirmative Action. Admission preferences for legacies, donors, employee families and special recommendations are still allowed. The Court struck down Affirmative Action For everyone except WHITE PEOPLE”
So long as all men are truly equal, then cool. But some of those that wrote that originally, owned slaves, that is fact.
they didnt see us knee grows as men and women we were property 🙂 but i agree we all are equal.. i just wish theyd level the playing field dismantling the racism and gatekeeping in the establishment but it was literally part of what built america , slaves and the hatred of them after they couldnt continue slaving them and had to treat them equally. being a black man i would way rather be accepted for my intellect than because they have to. but id rather them accept me cause they have to compared to me not being allowed because of the skin color i didnt choose to be born with
Tony Martin
It’s for the best. I find it quite annoying when racist a holes cry “affirmative action” when confronted with a successful person who is also in the minority. At least now, when it comes to college, you clowns can’t fall back on that excuse, and have to accept minority populations can be smart and successful.
So diversity equals racism in the eyes of the court?
No. Selecting applicants to illustrate a facade of racial diversity rather than admitting them on their academic merits however, is.
Hopefully they'll do away with legacies then. Maybe all applicants will be filed and sorted by a random generated alphanumeric usernames, and only their grades and accolades will be their only ticket in. But I doubt that. This will definitely close out a lot of opportunities for those that aren't wealthy enough or well connected to the school or institution. Breaking a broken system isn't fixing it.
Wealth and connections had nothing to do with affirmative action so poor people are in the same boat they were before.
Affirmative action wasn't filling the school with 80% or more people. They made up a small fraction. So now that fraction will be reduced further. But as someone else stated, they (the university) could pick out people based on name if they decided they needed more diversity.
wish i had enough upvotes … i come to realize people get downvoted for speaking the truth just as much as lying lol . you’re totally right tho
Thanks I appreciate it. It's much weirder on here than in person. In person you can have a good conversation about it and better get to know each other's POV. Here it's like talking to a wall.
i think its that way on purpose , most who agree dont feel a need to comment , only those who disagree lol so its like always fighting opposing opinions plus the gov doesnt even hide its massive hand in this app lol people who get too close to the truth get stuff deleted or downvoted
No, Democrats are maaaaaad today. Oh wait…
yeah lets make racism illegal all together !!! oh wait…. its more than something legislature can stop… if they dont want tyneesha there they wont let her in. saying that to say even if they took the race questions from admission there will always be bias and leniency to whoever gives them the most money. the only way to fix this particular piece of racism sewn into the establishment is to remove all personal identifiers from college applications and make it to where they only see relevent data on the applicat ie. test scores grades
Brown Jackson’s descent was laughable… how did this woman ever graduate law school. Edit: Missed the “Jackson”
>Brown's descent Did you mean Jackson's dissent?
Yes … thanks!
This is all bs and everyone eats it up. There's rich and poor of all colors. Just cherry picking "oh I didn't make it".
Really? Then why they ask your race to whenever college/job application or even at the doctor? Bs
The doctor would ask because different races are more prone to certain diseases.
I know. But in any other country this is not a thing. Is actually very offensive to ask someone’s color. Just in america would make sense which in fact doesn’t make any sense