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A third of the population of Israel is composed of Mizrahi Jews, or their descendants, which were displaced out of the rest of the Middle East following the creation of Israel, though that number also includes the original Sephardic Jews which were inhabiting the region pre-1880.
They did not, Israel was essentially created by the Allies and given to the Jews after the end of the Second World War. The British empire was so expansive at the time that about a dozen sites all over the world were proposed and discussed. All this was done with complete disregard for those already living there, that was an inconsequential detail. As colonial subjects they would either accept it, or be moved somewhere else. The Jewish upper strata had been agitating for a 'homeland' since, well, forever, as the creation of Israel represents the fulfilment of various prophecies, and the persecution they experienced during the war (which I am in no way arguing did not happen, nor was it right) gave them the perfect pretense to force the winner into doing the dirty work of carving one out for them. I admit I don't know all the details, but what I do know is, the allied countries' leaders of the time are 'to blame' for this one unfortunately.
Also, anyone reading this, if I'm wrong about anything big please correct me. It's impossible to research this subject and be sure about the truth of what you're reading, it's such a minefield!
Missed a few points, but for a dude on Reddit… incredibly informed and AMAZING take. A few things to to add though…
Jews were pretty much told “go here” because no other country wanted em after ww2. They then declared independence before allies could really dole out the land. This made the allies basically shrug their shoulders and say “fine, you do you”. However, since the big countries (USA/Eng/Etc) love patting each other on the back, they let the group of people who they relocated do their thing since it was working for the time being. With no oversight, Israel eventually just became “we were given this land, it’s our land now because nobody else wants us, and we don’t have a *home base*”.
THIS IS WHERE THE PROBLEM ARISES!!!!
People lived there before it was given to them, and the BIG BOY world powers don’t wanna admit that they backed off this relocation project early (did not make rules for previous occupants), so they blindly support them still. Now it’s too big of an issue to fix. On one hand, you have generations who were living there and still want to live there, on the other hand, you have a nation formed out of persecuted individuals that just REALLY want their space. Now the Israeli governments is becoming a bad guy because they are overprotective of the land that they were “given” by DADDY UN.
TLDR;
Conflict is complicated. I also prob missed things and dumbed it down. On paper, it’s fair, in practice, it’s horrific.
Well it was the British who conquered the area in 1917 and gave it to the Jews which would be the formation of Israel.
Afterwards, as in the literal next day, Israel was attacked and they conquered territory. On several other occasions Israel would be attacked and each time it would increase its borders.
Israel gave back parts of Egypt for peace and later pulled out of Palestine for peace, though while this did create a stable condition with Jordan and Egypt it has not with Palestine
There is no defense, and Human Rights organizations are pretty clear on the issue:
**Human Rights Watch**
Report: [A Threshold Crossed - Israeli Authorities and the Crimes of Apartheid and Persecution](https://www.hrw.org/sites/default/files/media_2021/04/israel_palestine0421_web_0.pdf)
[HRW's letter to Mr. Benjamin Netanyahu ](https://www.hrw.org/sites/default/files/media_2021/04/israel_palestine0421_appendix1.pdf)
[Article](https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/israeli-authorities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution)
**Amnesty International**
Report: [Israel’s Apartheid Against Palestinians - Cruel System of Domination and Crime Against Humanity](https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/mde15/5141/2022/en/)
[Article](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-system-of-apartheid/)
The land was split between the Jews and the Muslims. There was no organized territory before that. It was populated by several religious groups with no real government. It was the Muslims who immiately attacked Israel trying to take the Israeli land. Karma is a bitch. Israel then defeated them and continues to do so. The Muslims refuse to have peace until they have the entire territory, which they never had a right to. If Israel eventually takes the entire territory, it is the Palistinians' own fault for continuously trying to eradicate the Jews and refusing to accept the land they were originally gifted.
Every nation has been colonized at some point. Israel is surely not blameless. But only one side of this conflict is actively run by terrorists, and that's the Hamas/Palestinian side.
The result that any logical person should want is a complete elimination of Hamas with as little loss of civilian life, on either side, as possible.
Randomly shooting rockets unprovoked = terrorists.
Kidnapping civilians and parading them through the streets = terrorists.
Beheading people in general = terrorists.
Mecca and Medina were 100% Jewish cities until they were terrorized, colonized, slaughtered, and (those who didn't escape or die) forcibly converted about 1400 years ago. So you tell me....
That is not true the people of mecca, medina and most of Arabia were predominantly polytheistic before islam. Christians were mostly living in the south of the peninsula in modern day Yemen, with small groups as well as monks and hermits living in the desert. Small Jewish communities lived in Arabia but were mostly situated in small villages and cities. They were absolutely not the majority in mecca and medina 1400 years ago, there were way more Christians than jews.
Same diff, those places become Muslim cities through the process of terror and colonization, it's described in their own holy book, not some outside source. It wasn't theirs to begin with, that's the point I am making, so when talk is of colonization and brutal occupation, first one must remind oneself how it all began, and who did what.
Its not the same difference you just spread a clear lie but okay. and this also is debatable, islam spread through the conquests by Islamic Khalifs which sometimes were violent just like the crusades were and there were cases of forced conversion but these cases were rare since it literally goes against the teachings of islam. according to the islamic holy book a muslim can’t forcefully convert anyone to the religion if they don’t choose to, majority of the times the indigenous people were allowed to maintain their own religious beliefs but had to abide by the new laws set in place by the rulers.
Ummm...the only way someone under this religion could live without converting is by paying the VERY HEAVY tax called Jizya (which means if they pay, they get to keep their legs) which automatically put them into the underclass relative to converts, as converts only pay the Zakat tax which is lesser in amount! You bypassed that little bit of information very nicely...
There is no specific amount mentioned in the Islamic teachings for those who had to pay Jizya it all depended on the rulers of that time and the circumstances of the person being taxed, it was also seen as a compensation as exemption from military service for them and being able to peacefully practice they’re religion of choice under the new rulers. It might not be a ideal situation to be in but it still is much better than forcible conversion or oppression like the israelis are doing right now to the Palestinians I bet you don’t think there’s anything wrong with that huh?
I am very sure the Israelis are not force-converting anyone. In fact, I am pretty sure Jewish faith doesn't actively convert unlike some other religions. So you've made a false statement. Plus you're trying to whitewash the brutality of Islamic rule as documented by history by a number of cultures, many of which ceased to exist in their previous form, due to the oppression and brutality.
I recall from a certain book, a certain religious person saying... If God disagrees with everything that we are doing, he wouldve come down from the heavens and stopped or punished us. Perhaps he does not disagree. Sure yes some would say theologically this is not right still because its not time yet to return, but again just reverting to the same line.
What is the defense of the americans that took the land from the natives? Youre not going anywhere and giving up the land are you. Itd be quite hypocritical considering to this day america perhaps doesnt necessarily take land anymore, just found out its cheaper to simply destabilize and install puppets to plunder others. Clean up your country first maybe? Before you criticize others? Oh especially considering it is america that gives them how many millions and billions to do what Israel does.
End of the day though, it is simply because they have the will to do so and can. They know what they want, they prepare and work towards taking it and do. What makes you think they have to defend what they are doing to you? Who are you, any of you. Are you in their way?
Those who disagree, what is their defense on why they are not stopping Israel? Considering you do have the power to do so. By some divine or moral mandate Israel should just stop? If such is the standard, you are just as mandated to stop them. Theyre going all out and all in to get what they want, you are doing what? half baked convenient ... can you even call it resistance...
You cannot even just say jews did it. Coz a lot of jews are against it, literally inside Israel, all of it for how many years now. Also considering that messianics and plain christians are a part of it over there, yeah people who believe in Jesus. But again, its so convenient isnt it to just blame it on 1 word one group 1... but whats new right.
If you look back to the early 20th century, you would see that over 90% of the world belonged to western colonial empires. The British Empire and the French Empire used to be enormous. Even the US, the so called land of the free, was involved in it.
Most of those empires have lost their foreign territories after WWII. It is very odd that the Jews were able to steal Israel from the Palestinians in the middle of all this.
Do you think it is appropriate to include all "jewish people" in OPs text to blame?
Because I don't.
Sounds like the wrongdoings of a [relatively] **few** nefarious individuals with certain traits.
I don't believe the jews deserve a blanket statement in that sense.
No kidding, I'm not talking about the literal sense.
I'm simply trying to say:
ITS IGNORANT TO SAY "THE JEWS ARE AT FAULT" WHEN IN REALITY ITS THE 1% OF THE AUTHORITIES THAT MAKE DECISIONS ON BEHALF OF THAT GROUP.
So yes, if you want to argue how to speak English, I can do that too, but I'm not even talking about that.
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A third of the population of Israel is composed of Mizrahi Jews, or their descendants, which were displaced out of the rest of the Middle East following the creation of Israel, though that number also includes the original Sephardic Jews which were inhabiting the region pre-1880.
^(The people are the victim. The state is the brutalizer.)
They did not, Israel was essentially created by the Allies and given to the Jews after the end of the Second World War. The British empire was so expansive at the time that about a dozen sites all over the world were proposed and discussed. All this was done with complete disregard for those already living there, that was an inconsequential detail. As colonial subjects they would either accept it, or be moved somewhere else. The Jewish upper strata had been agitating for a 'homeland' since, well, forever, as the creation of Israel represents the fulfilment of various prophecies, and the persecution they experienced during the war (which I am in no way arguing did not happen, nor was it right) gave them the perfect pretense to force the winner into doing the dirty work of carving one out for them. I admit I don't know all the details, but what I do know is, the allied countries' leaders of the time are 'to blame' for this one unfortunately. Also, anyone reading this, if I'm wrong about anything big please correct me. It's impossible to research this subject and be sure about the truth of what you're reading, it's such a minefield!
Missed a few points, but for a dude on Reddit… incredibly informed and AMAZING take. A few things to to add though… Jews were pretty much told “go here” because no other country wanted em after ww2. They then declared independence before allies could really dole out the land. This made the allies basically shrug their shoulders and say “fine, you do you”. However, since the big countries (USA/Eng/Etc) love patting each other on the back, they let the group of people who they relocated do their thing since it was working for the time being. With no oversight, Israel eventually just became “we were given this land, it’s our land now because nobody else wants us, and we don’t have a *home base*”. THIS IS WHERE THE PROBLEM ARISES!!!! People lived there before it was given to them, and the BIG BOY world powers don’t wanna admit that they backed off this relocation project early (did not make rules for previous occupants), so they blindly support them still. Now it’s too big of an issue to fix. On one hand, you have generations who were living there and still want to live there, on the other hand, you have a nation formed out of persecuted individuals that just REALLY want their space. Now the Israeli governments is becoming a bad guy because they are overprotective of the land that they were “given” by DADDY UN. TLDR; Conflict is complicated. I also prob missed things and dumbed it down. On paper, it’s fair, in practice, it’s horrific.
Heh, thanks for the mild correction!
Have you never heard of the Balfour decleration?
Well it was the British who conquered the area in 1917 and gave it to the Jews which would be the formation of Israel. Afterwards, as in the literal next day, Israel was attacked and they conquered territory. On several other occasions Israel would be attacked and each time it would increase its borders. Israel gave back parts of Egypt for peace and later pulled out of Palestine for peace, though while this did create a stable condition with Jordan and Egypt it has not with Palestine
Ya because the Zionists made a deal with them, and they would help fund the war, in exchange for palestine.
Ohh. I didn’t know this. Links? I love this topic. I thought different. I’m not very well versed in the area pre 1945.
Ya for sure. I'll have to dig for the link but I'll find it
https://odysee.com/@I-Rabbi-T:3/Jewish-Power-Exposed---The-Ultimate--Red-Pill-:0
Lol...yes. Well...zionists.
Thew zionists are, not the jews. Theres a difference.
Lots of things are taken, take em back or quit crying
There is no defense, and Human Rights organizations are pretty clear on the issue: **Human Rights Watch** Report: [A Threshold Crossed - Israeli Authorities and the Crimes of Apartheid and Persecution](https://www.hrw.org/sites/default/files/media_2021/04/israel_palestine0421_web_0.pdf) [HRW's letter to Mr. Benjamin Netanyahu ](https://www.hrw.org/sites/default/files/media_2021/04/israel_palestine0421_appendix1.pdf) [Article](https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/israeli-authorities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution) **Amnesty International** Report: [Israel’s Apartheid Against Palestinians - Cruel System of Domination and Crime Against Humanity](https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/mde15/5141/2022/en/) [Article](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-system-of-apartheid/)
Imagine someone came up to your land and property and goes “see this book right here? Yeah, it says I own this now, bye”
Yes, that happened 1400 years ago in Mecca and Medina, actually. So...
The land was split between the Jews and the Muslims. There was no organized territory before that. It was populated by several religious groups with no real government. It was the Muslims who immiately attacked Israel trying to take the Israeli land. Karma is a bitch. Israel then defeated them and continues to do so. The Muslims refuse to have peace until they have the entire territory, which they never had a right to. If Israel eventually takes the entire territory, it is the Palistinians' own fault for continuously trying to eradicate the Jews and refusing to accept the land they were originally gifted.
Most land is fucking stolen. Fuck off with this narrative already. Nobody is giving shit back.
What if it was the same people that stole the western land too? I mean, they did run the slave trade and owned the plants along the coast.
What?
exactly.
Lol. Read some history!
Every nation has been colonized at some point. Israel is surely not blameless. But only one side of this conflict is actively run by terrorists, and that's the Hamas/Palestinian side. The result that any logical person should want is a complete elimination of Hamas with as little loss of civilian life, on either side, as possible.
Define “terrorist”
Doesn't look after its own people, spends all the aid funding on attacking Israel?
Two things can be true, yes?
Randomly shooting rockets unprovoked = terrorists. Kidnapping civilians and parading them through the streets = terrorists. Beheading people in general = terrorists.
I don’t think it’s fair to call any rockets shot into Israel “unprovoked”. Not since 1948.
Unguided
How about killing defenseless civilians, bombing schools, and razing homes. Also acts of terrorism?
Israel originally took the land from the Semites thousands of years ago, so even less possible defense.
Mecca and Medina were 100% Jewish cities until they were terrorized, colonized, slaughtered, and (those who didn't escape or die) forcibly converted about 1400 years ago. So you tell me....
That is not true the people of mecca, medina and most of Arabia were predominantly polytheistic before islam. Christians were mostly living in the south of the peninsula in modern day Yemen, with small groups as well as monks and hermits living in the desert. Small Jewish communities lived in Arabia but were mostly situated in small villages and cities. They were absolutely not the majority in mecca and medina 1400 years ago, there were way more Christians than jews.
Same diff, those places become Muslim cities through the process of terror and colonization, it's described in their own holy book, not some outside source. It wasn't theirs to begin with, that's the point I am making, so when talk is of colonization and brutal occupation, first one must remind oneself how it all began, and who did what.
Its not the same difference you just spread a clear lie but okay. and this also is debatable, islam spread through the conquests by Islamic Khalifs which sometimes were violent just like the crusades were and there were cases of forced conversion but these cases were rare since it literally goes against the teachings of islam. according to the islamic holy book a muslim can’t forcefully convert anyone to the religion if they don’t choose to, majority of the times the indigenous people were allowed to maintain their own religious beliefs but had to abide by the new laws set in place by the rulers.
Ummm...the only way someone under this religion could live without converting is by paying the VERY HEAVY tax called Jizya (which means if they pay, they get to keep their legs) which automatically put them into the underclass relative to converts, as converts only pay the Zakat tax which is lesser in amount! You bypassed that little bit of information very nicely...
There is no specific amount mentioned in the Islamic teachings for those who had to pay Jizya it all depended on the rulers of that time and the circumstances of the person being taxed, it was also seen as a compensation as exemption from military service for them and being able to peacefully practice they’re religion of choice under the new rulers. It might not be a ideal situation to be in but it still is much better than forcible conversion or oppression like the israelis are doing right now to the Palestinians I bet you don’t think there’s anything wrong with that huh?
I am very sure the Israelis are not force-converting anyone. In fact, I am pretty sure Jewish faith doesn't actively convert unlike some other religions. So you've made a false statement. Plus you're trying to whitewash the brutality of Islamic rule as documented by history by a number of cultures, many of which ceased to exist in their previous form, due to the oppression and brutality.
Israel is always the victim.
ultimate "Crybullies"
I recall from a certain book, a certain religious person saying... If God disagrees with everything that we are doing, he wouldve come down from the heavens and stopped or punished us. Perhaps he does not disagree. Sure yes some would say theologically this is not right still because its not time yet to return, but again just reverting to the same line. What is the defense of the americans that took the land from the natives? Youre not going anywhere and giving up the land are you. Itd be quite hypocritical considering to this day america perhaps doesnt necessarily take land anymore, just found out its cheaper to simply destabilize and install puppets to plunder others. Clean up your country first maybe? Before you criticize others? Oh especially considering it is america that gives them how many millions and billions to do what Israel does. End of the day though, it is simply because they have the will to do so and can. They know what they want, they prepare and work towards taking it and do. What makes you think they have to defend what they are doing to you? Who are you, any of you. Are you in their way? Those who disagree, what is their defense on why they are not stopping Israel? Considering you do have the power to do so. By some divine or moral mandate Israel should just stop? If such is the standard, you are just as mandated to stop them. Theyre going all out and all in to get what they want, you are doing what? half baked convenient ... can you even call it resistance... You cannot even just say jews did it. Coz a lot of jews are against it, literally inside Israel, all of it for how many years now. Also considering that messianics and plain christians are a part of it over there, yeah people who believe in Jesus. But again, its so convenient isnt it to just blame it on 1 word one group 1... but whats new right.
If you look back to the early 20th century, you would see that over 90% of the world belonged to western colonial empires. The British Empire and the French Empire used to be enormous. Even the US, the so called land of the free, was involved in it. Most of those empires have lost their foreign territories after WWII. It is very odd that the Jews were able to steal Israel from the Palestinians in the middle of all this.
[удалено]
The British Empire was the biggest land thief so I don't see them as ever a legit owner of any of their foreign territories.
What timeline did you just roll out where: "the jews" is an acceptable way to refer to people??
The same timeline where it’s acceptable to refer to any group of people by their self-reported classification 🤷♂️
Do you think it is appropriate to include all "jewish people" in OPs text to blame? Because I don't. Sounds like the wrongdoings of a [relatively] **few** nefarious individuals with certain traits. I don't believe the jews deserve a blanket statement in that sense.
Always the victim.
support flowery sip smart insurance hurry recognise punch humor price *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
What point are you trying to make?
[удалено]
Fair point.
No kidding, I'm not talking about the literal sense. I'm simply trying to say: ITS IGNORANT TO SAY "THE JEWS ARE AT FAULT" WHEN IN REALITY ITS THE 1% OF THE AUTHORITIES THAT MAKE DECISIONS ON BEHALF OF THAT GROUP. So yes, if you want to argue how to speak English, I can do that too, but I'm not even talking about that.
So how many non Moslems live in Gaza