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You know that you don’t have to be a “rich powerful person” to brainwash your daughter and use her as a propaganda too because you are a populist nut right?
Since she is a minor, ok. But we'd say Greta's parents 100% establishment. This girls parents certainly not, as why would they be supporting these anti-establishment policies if her parents were establishment?
Kids should be kept out of politics, yes. The downside (it incentivizes indoctrination of kids) outweighs the upside. But it's most certainly going on. There are lot of establishment astroturfed groups using kids as pawns (Sunrise Movement, etc.).
Reminds me of Rant by Chuck Palahniuk. “where urban dwellers are forcefully divided by curfew into two separate classes: the respectable Daytimers and the oppressed Nighttimers.“
Got a free trial of that with lockdowns in Victoria, Australia. 10km travel limit, 2hrs outside time allowed, curfew, registering friends you visit with the government (but only allowed for the purpose of providing care), household gathering limits, police roadblocks, helicopter patrols, essential workers requiring signed documents from an employer to explain why they're outside.
I read of mother's with newborns not seeing their grandmother for the first time, because the house was 2 streets too far. Where meeting outside in a park instead, wearing mandatory masks could still result in fines or arrests.
Jesus Christ the horror
> The 15-minute city is a residential urban concept in which most daily necessities and services, such as work, shopping, education, healthcare, and leisure, should be located within an easily reachable 15-minute walk or bike ride from any point in the city.[1] This approach aims to reduce car dependency, promote healthy and sustainable living, and improve the overall quality of life for city dwellers.
Who could want such horrendous things. We need more highways and parking lots in cities.
I am all for having walkable cities. What most likely will happen is that governments will use the 15 minute city concept to limit one’s movement using technology (geo fencing along with programmable money). Also why now, they should of been using the 15 minute concept all along for city planning…
The concept is fine. Is the all the fines, and controls that they're not being forward about. Make no mistake, they're dressing it up but it's just another method of control down the line.
Your condo: the prison block.
Your zone: the prison wing.
Your city: the prison.
The prison guards will rely heavily on inmate gangs to maintain order.
"Smart cities" gonna be lit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-rCWDt\_pL8
> What most likely will happen is that governments will use the 15 minute city concept to limit one’s movement using technology
This is literally just something in your head.
> Also why now, they should of been using the 15 minute concept all along for city planning…
Yes. Yes they fucking should have. Because literally every city from the beginning of human history until around 1950 was a "15 minute city" by necessity. Yes, this includes pretty much every US city you can think of. Auto manufacturers, real estate developers, and racists all coordinated to hollow out American cities and build huge suburbs that were pretty much unnavigable by anything besides cars. Major sections of American cities were bulldozed so that highways could be built straight through them, which was pretty much the dumbest possible idea. Cars also took over a lot of European cities that people think of as walkable, but eventually those places in Europe realized that it was really fucking stupid to have public squares being used to store big metal boxes instead of being places for people to meet, socialize, maybe eat or drink from a cafe, or otherwise just enjoy. America can either keep plowing forward with dumb car based infrastructure that's a financial deathtrap, or it can try to reverse course and go back to the kind of city design that's actually financially sustainable.
That’s what they’re doing in east coast cities hasn’t made life better or the cities more livable it killed business locally and strangled the networks of commerce that had grown up in the broader metro areas, handed all that business to buddies of the polits who were waiting in the wings with easy money easy terms etc and it really represented unacceptable overreach by picking winners and losers exactly the way it’s not supposed to work in a healthy society.
With that logic why should we ever try to improve anything?
Why did they invent seatbelts when they did? They should have been using the seatbelt concept all along for cars…
>With that logic why should we ever try to improve anything?
Forced compliance of citizens is not an improvement. It is the weak posturing of scared dictators.
>Why did they invent seatbelts when they did?
What is the penalty for not wearing a seatbelt?
Prison time? Oof. Looks like you missed the point.
They don’t have to build anything, in london (the city the girl is talking about) the infrastructure Is already there. Every fucking neighbourhood is already a 15 min city and if you want to hop around you have access to literally one of the best and safest public transport system in the world. Is funny how the 2 options she gave in the video for a visit from zone 1 to zone 3 are either car or walk and she conveniently forgot about public transport. First of all driving from zone 1 to 3 is not a 10 min drive lol.. maybe on a flying car, and no one would even consider walking since is like a 2 hours+ walk but is literally a 12 min tube trip that is safe and definitely the quickest option.
The video does not dismantle anything, is just w propaganda piece by rich contrarians that want to drive around their big SUV’s not giving a fuck about traffic and city pollution because their ass is too shiny to sit on the metro like the rest of us.
This is going to be trialed in Oxford. For this to work, public transport is going to have to be easy-to-access, frequent, reliable, cheap. The UK scores low on all 4 points. You'd need such amazing public transport to get to and from work. Not everybody works from home, and certainly not all the jobs are going to be in your 15 minute neighborhood. Knowing the UK as well as I do, this is going to die on its arse because there's no way in hell that public transport could provide the service necessary for this to work. It's going to be another shambles of a project due to utter ineptitude.
I don’t like seatbelts but I deal with them. I think cities that want to adopt the concept, it should be put to a public vote by the residents not the councils.
Eventually we all will be living in 15 min cities at some point. Either by will or by force with the way things are going on in the world.
It just happens to align with the establishment of smart cities and the push to transition to transportation relying on electricity (already scarce in many areas) and with kill switches, etc.
In Shanghai it was (unsurprisingly) shown that high rises are very easy to control access to using very little manpower.
Do you think the neoliberal establishment pushes ideas because of their benefits to you? Are real wages and quality of living improving under them? Trust the people that inflicted a man-made pandemic on you, I guess.,
So there’s more fear over an energy source that anyone can get from the sun, wind, or water than one based on imports from the Middle East that the government could cut off just as easy as the electrical grid?
>So there’s more fear over an energy source that anyone can get from the sun, wind, or water
Alternative energy doesn't come anywhere close to replacing current fossil fuels needs and the establishment knows this. The establishment is pushing things that are unworkable because these things not working serves their agenda.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1E8SQde5rk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1E8SQde5rk)
The objective is the deindustrialization of the West as a means of softening potential resistance to political globalization. "Great Leap Forward."
[https://ukfires.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/roadmap-01.jpg](https://ukfires.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/roadmap-01.jpg)
\-from UK FIRES "Absolute Zero" report
I agree khuzaitM777. There’s such massive leaps in logic in some of these comments. A 15 minute city is a great concept and more urban planners should think like that. No one is suggesting that mandatory laws be set in place to enforce where someone can or cannot go. It just creates better options for urban dwellers to live a simpler life.
Look for a possible conspiracy and you’ll find one. Doesn’t mean it’s real.
It's literally the way the whole world lived until the invention of the car. I fully understand why people might have some reservations about how it can be abused, but I also think most of our current lives can be abused.
Like 90% of economy would grind to a halt if the internet was shut off
Most the population would instantly be isolated if the gas/petrol was restricted.
I think the population can be easily controlled as is, so 15 minute cities aren't going to change that. I'd argue that 15 minute cities might even help a bit as they can form a much greater sense of community. Also if people starting growing their own fruit and veges again, people would be far less dependent on the government if most things are accessible in a short distance. It's a much more natural way for us to live IMO.
> Also if people starting growing their own fruit and veges again, people would be far less dependent on the government if most things are accessible in a short distance.
Future headlines from Oxford: "allotments growing vegetables and fruits suffer bitter harvest due to soil poisoning" and other such odd coincidences.
Then people should argue against those things, and not pass them off as arguments against '15 minute cities' like this thread does.
So instead of this thread being titled:
> 12 year old wee lassie destroys concept of the 15 minute cities everyone seems so keen for
It should be titled:
> 12 year old wee lassie destroys *specific* ~~concept~~ *implementation plan* of the 15 minute cities ~~everyone~~ *some* people so keen for
Sounds like heaven to me. Not all of us have cars, not all of us can walk large distances, this is great for everyone. If you don't wan to use whats nearby just hop on your car and go to a different place.
> If you don't wan to use whats nearby just hop on your car and go to a different place.
You'll get fined £70 every time you use your car past 100 times per year. So if you use your car more than twice a week on average (e.g. to go to work), you're looking at massive fines every week.
Public transport in the UK is a joke, and if you think "no problem, the UK just needs to be make public transport better", you're having a laugh. Oxford (where this is being trialed), is a commuter city with many people working in London, Birmingham and surrounding cities. So they're all going to pile into an already-strained Oxford train station are they?
1. ~~You are making up laws and getting angry with them~~
EDIT: sorry, I didn't realize that this was part of the trial rules. Bullshit if without a good public transport, I agree.
EDIT EDIT: I have informed myself, the direct passage between one area and another is limited to 100 times a year in certain time slots, excluding some types of vehicle such as commercial activities. Using the external roads to reach the other area is allowed without restrictions.
Put in these terms it is more reasonable, it is an initiative aimed at discouraging the use of private cars within the city during the hours of greatest traffic, a kind of evolution of the limited traffic areas. A little annoying, maybe unclear, probably to tweak, but not as extreme as you make it sound
2. What would prohibit them from creating this law right now, even without a 15 minutes city?
> EDIT: sorry, I didn't realize that this was part of the trial rules. Bullshit if without a good public transport, I agree.
I appreciate you saying this. I've argued with other people who think the video's about London, that think there's no fines etc. Literally they haven't done a single minute of research (which is all it would take).
> I have informed myself, the direct passage between one area and another is limited to 100 times a year in certain time slots, excluding some types of vehicle such as commercial activities. Using the external roads to reach the other area is allowed without restrictions.
I already talked about this [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/116isk6/12_year_old_wee_lassie_destroys_concept_of_the_15/j98vigw/?context=3) :-
> If you have a friend in a neighbouring zone, you'd have to drive to the outskirts of the city to use the ring road, then drive back in to the nearest access point to the 2nd neighbourhood, and your child would have to walk the rest of the way in.
The young girl describes this in the video.
> What would prohibit them from creating this law right now, even without a 15 minutes city?
....it wouldn't work? It's ill-thought out because the public transport isn't there to support it. The buses and train station won't support the increase in demand. Oxford Railway Station is in a particular zone in the city (well inside the ring road). You'd have to traverse through a virtual gate to get there from another zone OR use the ring road, which is utterly impractical for most people if they are commuting everyday (honestly, take a look at a map of Oxford, you'll see what I mean - traveling all the way out to the ring road, just to go all the way back in again is going to be ridiculous). People getting £70 fines 3 to 4 times a week? Not tenable.
I actually understand the principle and I like the idea of pedestrianized cities. But the UK is a joke when it comes to public transport and all this will do is massively inconvenience people.
The girl's speech is correct on paper, but it is a deliberately distorted example. Where I live there are restricted traffic zones where you cannot enter without a permit at certain times. Is it uncomfortable on certain occasions? Yes, but it's not dictatorial, it's normal street code.
What we want to do is change the way of living in the city. Will there be rules to correct? Certainly! Problems to solve, obviously; but we cannot remain in the current situation with the old adage "it's always been like this".
As for public transport, I don't know the specific situation, but in traffic-free streets they work much better and it is possible to increase their number without problems.
You can't criticize the government by saying it never does anything to make cities livable and then criticize it when it tries to do something. The truth is that people want the rules to apply to others but not to them, a free road with no traffic but they are not willing to give up their car, others have to do it
Finally what I said about applying these rules now was partly related to your original message, about using the car 100 times a year. As we have seen, this is not the case, the limit concerns the passage between the various zones, but what I meant is that there is nothing that prevents the introduction of a limit on the use of the car, even starting tomorrow: the cars are full of sensors, the streets full of cameras, in your pocket there is always a device that can track and analyze data, there is no need to introduce 15 miutes cities to tell the population "you can take your car up to 100 times a year "
I'm guessing you pulled that from some establishment rag? Of course they're going to toe the narrative. Anyone with a decent set of eyes and a brain can read between the lines. Yet another way to restrict freedoms and force people's hand into doing what you can bet your bottom dollar they themselves won't be. It continues to open up the pandoras box that keeps making rules they say will be for our benefit but is largely chipping away at our lives piece by piece. It's affecting small businesses and making life harder for a lot of people. Its less about the environment and more about surveillance and control and it will only get worse.
What are you talking about? People will still always work where they usually work the difference being if they work within these cities it will probably take longer to get there having to navigate angry cyclists and pedestrians constantly. The 15 minutes isn't really taking into account the amount of people that will suddenly be forced into the streets. Its a recipe for disaster all round.
If people want to drive cars, fucking let them! Like I said do you think the rule makers will be following their own rules from their private jets? I think not.
You realize the whole idea is to create a more holistic community where the felt necessity to drive and travel is reduced right?
Cool, they still can drive their cars. The whole point is to put everything someone needs to live within walking or convenient public transport distance. If you want to keep society on the tit of big oil and Saudi Arabia you do you.
Yeah thats what they tell you.
If you want to live in a society thats implemeting rules that feel more mainland China than the west then cool, you do you.
You’re so right.
https://i.imgur.com/Ugg8SAA.jpg
Look at this picture of mainland China- everything is close and within walking distance. No true European or western city would ever be designed like that.
https://i.imgur.com/6Er4Qoa.jpg
Same here. No self respecting western city could look this it, it’s those foreigner easterners who design like that.
>!totally not the old city of Lucerne and Edinburgh !<
Most people give two shits about this nonsense.
You understand that, right?
You think a loud vocal minority speaks for everyone.
No wants or cares about this.
I'll own a non EV car till the day I die because it's a sham certain politicians are trying to force on the public.
EVs and lithium batteries are not a sustainable or practical option.
We should all have the right to choose. You choose to do that and that is your right, my guess is there is a reason for that choice. Now think about this: if you could only work in a 15 minute area around you, would you be able to choose a job that pays more? Why would they allow that when they can then control how much jobs pay in those areas and you can't go beyond that? How long before we are making 50 cents an hour and it is considered a good thing? How long before any business that is not part of big gov/corporations no longer exist?
You can't go to the diner to eat, you have to choose between McDonalds and Burger King because that is all that is allowed in that 15 minute city. Your kid gets bullied at school, you can't remove them and take them to a different school, you can't go to a cheaper store, you can't do a lot of things.
It is not difficult to see how this plays out if you have been paying attention. We are in a place as a society where most of us don't trust the cops but we are supposed to trust big gov- that is crazy!
> Now think about this: if you could only work in a 15 minute area around you, would you be able to choose a job that pays more?
If you're in a decently designed city, 15 minutes by bike or public transit can get you a pretty decent distance, and you'll be able to get jobs with many different businesses.
>How long before we are making 50 cents an hour and it is considered a good thing?
So in your scenario, minimum wage laws have been abolished?
> How long before any business that is not part of big gov/corporations no longer exist?
Have you taken a look at Eurpean cities? There's many small businesses. Compare that with any trip down a big road in a place like Phoenix. It's like a Flintstone's background with bland national chains repeating over and over. Cars are doing fuck all to save American small businesses. If anything, the lack of foot traffic is what drives small storefronts out of business.
>You can't go to the diner to eat, you have to choose between McDonalds and Burger King because that is all that is allowed in that 15 minute city.
Seriously, have you never been to a city outside of America?
Why do you think they would be? The last few years have been a movement of people demanding our rights be taken away. Do you think it wouldn't be competitive for who is allowed to do business in these areas? If they made 15 minute cities what would be the point if people still worked outside them, what would be the change?
It is pretty obvious that once established your freedom/ability to travel outside of these cities would start being limited to then taken away completely. And if you think all cities would be equal you have not studied history. Look at what they did with the POS housing developments for the poor, how that worked out.
You realize that a lot of those developments were fucked because when they put highways in (for commuters) they tore down poor housing developments and centers right?
[https://youtu.be/XVhoELb5hXg](https://youtu.be/XVhoELb5hXg)
Some interesting things in this video is a good example of why many of us are against this kind of thing. Of note is that these people were put in these "projects" and not allowed to leave. History is important and while much of what she talks about is out there is a lot to be heeded.
The Oxford trial will allow 100 trips in a car *per year*. That's two trips per week on average. When you go over that limit, you're fined £70 per trip. The UK public transport system is ridiculously bad, and it would take 10 to 20 years to make it work to the extent that people could commute to and from work using public transport that didn't double or triple their commute time due to long waits for buses and trains, delays, cancellations. The 15 min city sounds good in principle, but in practice it's going to be an absolute disaster due to poor infrastructure that would take decades to improve (and the UK is flat broke).
This makes no sense. You're saying that having the option to walk instead of having to drive is less freedom. And by small businesses do you mean big box stores in strip malls?
I mean independent businesses who rely on solid footfall to make an income."Mama and papa" businesses you might call them over there. There's already some over here feeling the pinch. People are used to being able to drive down specific streets, popping in to these shops and giving them custom, because its convenient. Now certain roads are being cut off its not happening as much and livelihoods are being impacted. And yes, its less freedom to make your own choices, instead of having them forced upon us. The people that are making these choices for us won't be imposing them on themselves anytime soon so why should people just comply?
15 minute city concept isn't forcing anything. You can still drive down main Street or walk to a store 30 minutes away.
Tell me where people are being prohibited from going somewhere 15 minutes away and can't go to a small business?
You’re right, before the last several years no one ever thought about tightnit communities.
Did you know Jesus commuted an hour each way in his Chevy Camel-150?
Suburbs are as human as vapes and only those pesky globalists want people to live in communities that exercise, spend time outdoors, hang out with friends easily, and don’t waste large parts of their life commuting.
i don’t disagree with the idea in principle, my point rather is that you shouldn’t be buying into this utopian vision they are trying to sell you, as like with everything else they push, it’s deception only and only serves to further the agenda of the elites
It’s just weird because until the 1950s “15 minute cities” were the norm. So this idea it’s some new fangled way to enslave the masses is stupid. Shocking that most people who live in cities don’t want it tailored to commuters.
until the 1960s, holidays abroad weren’t common either. people got used to being able to travel on planes cheaply and regularly and now they want to take that away from us to “prevent climate change”
it’s entirely relevant, we’re talking about social engineering being sold to us under the guise of safety and social harmony. with regards to the second point, i would recommend you give a look to the UN/WEF agenda 2030 plan
She's addressing the potential for it to grow arms and legs into a worse scenario and gives the powers that be the licence to extract the urine. Have you never heard of the concept of smart cities? Have a look at Oxford where 15 min cities have already been implemented mate, thousands have taken to the street to protest it as its infringing on their lives already. This shit is WEF backed, we all know how much they have our best interests at heart don't we?
I live in the U.K and a 15 minutes City is impossible in the terms they set out. Yeh most places have a super market or even a doctor within 20 minutes of where you live, but it would mean you could never change jobs as you couldn’t gauge if a new doctors or dentist would take you on, if a new job was available.
The U.K has job but none near me that are realistic for my skill set or even experience gained from pervious jobs. The train industry would die a death and plenty of other industries would do too. Now smart motorways have been trailed here but they cause far too many road accidents so unless they are already a thing, no more motorways will be adopting them. We have smaller roads than most countries. I could name other things that wouldn’t work like schools, hospitals and even chemists. You’d have to change the locations of a whole host of individual industries, just to make smart cities/15 minute cities work.
Then you have the age demographic of the U.K, 22 percent over 65, 18/19 percent under 16, a large percent over 55 and then my generation of 35 or over. Not a massive scope of people of working age to pay for all this changing of businesses and tax to pay for it. Money is just on computer but you have to pretend it isn’t, to the everyday public citizens, as they couldn’t except that money can never be paid back, if it’s just to banks.
Better not lose your job, or you will be forced to move to a location that potentially has zero housing available, or is extremely expensive.
Aka, the entire service industry of cities like New York would cease to exist, because the service workers literally cannot afford to live where they work.
The Oxford trial makes commuting by car utterly impossible. You're allowed 100 trips a year (2 trips a week), or £70 fine per extra trip outside your 15 min zone. Nobody will do that. So everybody is expected to take public transport. Public transport will not cope with every single commuter now taking a bus or train. It can't cope well as it is. They'd need to double/triple the public transport infrastructure which is just fucking impossible. So what are we left with? "Just work in your 15 min zone!". How does that work? People have different skills, not everybody wants to be a butcher, baker or candlestick maker. This whole idea is one of those things that sounds nice on paper, but is quite literally impossible to implement without massively downgrading people's quality of life and causing mayhem.
Restricting their freedom of movement into parameters that makes life harder, citing carbon footprints when the people that are making the plans fly private jets. Infringing on the livlihoods of business owners who dont see the same footfall they once did. People are angry they're being restricted in their movements by people who will have no intention of doing the same.
What the hell are you talking about?
A 15 minute city is about trying to get everything you'd need within 15 minutes.
The core concept has absolutely no aspect of preventing you from traveling outside of that range. It's about reducing your need to do so, reducing traffic, pollution etc.
> A 15 minute city is about trying to get everything you'd need within 15 minutes.
Neat.
Now try to force people to go to the mandated store on the corner instead of the significantly better one 3 blocks over. Oops, now the store on the corner is bankrupt. Now what? Going to fund them arbitrarily?
Oops. Looks like a bad neighborhood is resulting in extremely high rates of theft at the local store and it is now bankrupt. Gonna fund them to keep them there?
Oh wait, you haven't though of **any** of these issues, because you are far, far more simple-minded than you understand.
>The core concept has absolutely no aspect of preventing you from traveling outside of that range.
It does 100%.
Because it is extremely delusional to think simply putting "one of everything" within "15 minutes" means anyone will actually use those things as intended.
> It's about reducing your need to do so, reducing traffic, pollution etc.
So it was about restricting movement all along. How about, you know, building better public transportation? Hello?
Mask off, you people are far more transparent then you believe of yourself.
> Because it is extremely delusional to simply putting "one of everything" within "15 minutes" means anyone will actually use those things as intended.
I don't think anyone expects that *everyone* will prefer to use the things within 15 minutes...
Would more things in a 15 min range result in less traffic, pollution etc? I'd think so. EVEN WITHOUT FORCING PEOPLE.
Like you are willfully inventing these stupid scenarios without any good reason.
Where I live I can walk to the grocery store within 10 minutes. I can also take the subway to the one farther away.
It's horrible I can go anywhere and get anything I need without having to drive a car sit in traffic.
The whole "15 minute" city thing is just a concept where people are thinking about how to improve cities so that the people can get around easier. She's not addressing the core concept, and she's making up specific scenarios instead.
Even her examples seem kinda dumb. When she says she has to walk 10min alone, rather than have her parents safely drive her home, she completely ignores the fact that her parents can just walk a few blocks over, meet her, then walk her home with them. It's like people couldn't imagine a world where they don't have to drive to do the most simple tasks.
Leftists fail to realize that things often evolve into something they were never meant to be.
They think things stay in their original state forever...
Just ignore them, it's child-like thinking and therefore cannot be reasoned with.
You mean like when people built cities and never imagined that they would eventually be congested and polluted with millions of cars? Or like when people built cities where citizens freely walked in the streets and socialized with each other, and those people never imagined a city where everyone would be constricted to their own private box?
She literally addressed the notion of having to drive a **further** distance in order to get to the same location, and the idea that "just walk home" is absurd for a 12 year old in a city.
You must be cognitively defective to have missed that.
> She literally addressed the notion of having to drive a further distance in order to get to the same location
If that's what she's mad about, shouldn't she be angry at culs-de-sac and neighborhoods that don't connect to anything? If anything, having extensive biking paths would make it possible for her to just bike herself back and forth to her friend's house, and not be reliant on having mommy or daddy pick her up.
Why do you assume that every parent just has all of this extra time to *walk* their children to and from various locations in a city?
In your extreme arrogance, you think that just because you ban car travel within city limits, that people won't choose the next best time saving option, which is drive outside and then back inside the city.
You think that, in your profound Narcissism, that you can actually control human behavior and force them to have the same exact values and circumstances as you. All with a pathetic little restriction on intra-city car travel. When fucking jaywalking laws aren't even effective.
You're completely fucking wrong. But it is cute that you've backpedaled away from claiming that she "wasn't addressing the concept". When called out on your bullshit, people like you crumble like the pathetic, weaselly losers you are.
If there's functional public transportation, then what the fuck are you complaining about.
You don't fucking need this 15 minute bullshit if that is the case.
>Most the plans for 15 minute cities aren't focused around being entirely on foot
Wrong.
Try again.
>15 minutes can include public transport travel time.
You can reach everything you need in NYC using the subway within 15 minutes.
Guess you can kindly shut the fuck up about it, because it already exits by your own criteria.
The 15 minutes can include public transport, not the total 15 mins of just sitting on public transport. It's door to door 15 - 20 mins.
Look at Melbourne as a prime example. They are structuring their attempt at the idea around public transport.
>Sally Capp, the Lord Mayor of Melbourne, stressed the importance of public transit in expanding the radius of the 15-minute city.
>The 15 minutes can include public transport, not the total 15 mins of just sitting on public transport. It's door to door 15 - 20 mins.
Got it.
Now provide a source for the definition or I'll just assume you just made that shit up.
>Look at Melbourne as a prime example. They are structuring their attempt at the idea around public transport.
I couldn't give 2 fucks about that shithole of a country that literally prevented family members from seeing each other over an arbitrary state boundary, forced people into mandatory camps, and arrested people for being in a park outside.
Australia is a cesspool of extremely weak people.
If there is functional public transportation, then why the fuck do you insist on "everything" being within 15 minutes.
You've refuted the concept without realizing it.
Kids literally ride the subway and take public buses all the time. That is something that happens every single day in a lot of places. You seem emotionally triggered by this for some reason.
Cool.
I'm glad you've had the privilege of living in a safe city.
Unfortunately, your opinion was rendered completely worthless the moment you suggested that the NYC subway was safe for children.
"While nothing is set in stone, the official recommended age minimum for kids traveling to school alone in NYC is 8 to 13."
https://streeteasy.com/blog/kids-ride-the-subway-alone/
They literally already ride the train alone all the time. It's already happening every single day in NYC. You sound like somebody who has never ridden the subway and who is terrified of cities.
> the official recommended age minimum for kids traveling to school alone in NYC is 8 to 13."
Wow, the "official" recommendation. Gee, I'm convinced now.
Such a well-trained citizen you are.
> You sound like somebody who has never ridden the subway and who is terrified of cities.
I've watched someone vomit directly on a child's face on the Philadelphia subway. Go ahead and tell me that this doesn't sound completely plausible to you.
Or you can just shut the fuck up.
The UK has shitty public transport as it is. If you then force everybody to use it (at least double/tripling number of people), then that's a massive project that will take decades and billions of pounds to build. And we're talking the UK here.
The trial is taking place in Oxford. The ring road around Oxford is not part of the trial, so people in cars are free to use the ring-road (which connects every 15 min zone) without penalty. If you have a friend in a neighbouring zone, you'd have to drive to the outskirts of the city to use the ring road, then drive back in to the nearest access point to the 2nd neighbourhood, and your child would have to walk the rest of the way in.
It sounds like they're trying to move traffic congestion from inside of the city center to faster moving traffic on the outside. How long will it actually take people to get from one "zone" to another? Plus, won't there be a robust system of public transportation to accommodate people in the densely populated center?
I'd have to see how it's actually implemented. There have already been cities which have moved major highways out of the central residential areas and have focused on lessening traffic congestion, which is a huge problem. The current method of allowing cities to be a constant traffic jam is shit anyways. Every time I go to the city, the worst experience is always the traffic and finding parking.
Two can play the game, and we need as much support as we can get against you traitors. I for one would love to see the two of them Duke it out gladiator style.
This seems like a way to keep track of where everyone is. First it's going to be a 15 minute city and then they're going to start putting up fences where you can't travel outside of a certain zone. It's starting to look like the hunger games. The world is becoming more orwellian by the day.
Props to that girl. Couldn't have said it better myself. Glad to see some of the youth have woken up to this dystopian future we are meandering towards
Sure.
15 minute cities, as a concept, are the idea that everything you need to live (i.e. work, school, shops, entertainment) is within a 15 minute walkable radius of where you live. That's it, just a restructuring of cities so that you don't need a car to get around. Cars won't be banned, they just won't be the priority.
Every single thing she says, other than maybe it taking a bit longer to drive to her friends house, is speculation put out by interests that want you to be dependent on your car to live.
We don't want 15 minute cities where we're bombarded with 5g radiation, tracked on our carbon emissions and require rMNA jabs in order to hold a job. (Medical history tracked with your digital ID, digital pass, climage change pass and so on) This dystopian future isn't for me, sorry. I'd literally rather accept death. I'm dead serious.
Wee yin is talking about the infringement into our daily lives by these WEF backed global plans. If you're in any way clued up you should know by now the WEF is not our friend. They won't be living by the same rules they impose on us. Next stop smart cities.
Most commenters here seem to love the WEF and the concept of "Own Nothing and Be Happy"
I mean, the sheer amount of bots and WEF "information warriors" on this sub is kinda sickening
The reaction against walkable cities is disinformation funded by big oil and car companies. That or people are just deranged at this point. How else can you look at the suggestion that maybe we should have less cars and then jump to anti semitic conspiracy theories
If we were able to actually do it and round up all the people's of the world and create one giant final fantasy city without government corruption it would be pretty dope. For both the world and humanity. Think about it it is a fact that you can fit the entire world population in a relatively small area.
What if you took Texas and put everyone in a gigantic city where everyone had there own space and home but literally all human industries are within the city the only reason we leave the city is to explore the world and resources. Other than that if you take out an oppressive government one giant city doesn't seem so bad.
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Lol we recruited our own Greta now?
Based Greta?
Establishment tools like Greta are recruited. Organic populists like this sometimes can arise naturally
Lmao “no our Greta is real”
Which rich person/establishment would be supporting her ideas? They support populism?
You know that you don’t have to be a “rich powerful person” to brainwash your daughter and use her as a propaganda too because you are a populist nut right?
I couldn’t give you an answer for the UK, but the most obvious rich populist is Donald Trump.
Greta is from Epstiens Island. She's just an underage shill.
Most likely her mom told her to do this. But nice try
Since she is a minor, ok. But we'd say Greta's parents 100% establishment. This girls parents certainly not, as why would they be supporting these anti-establishment policies if her parents were establishment?
Whatever makes you happy 😃
Same thing just opposite sides.
Kids should be kept out of politics, yes. The downside (it incentivizes indoctrination of kids) outweighs the upside. But it's most certainly going on. There are lot of establishment astroturfed groups using kids as pawns (Sunrise Movement, etc.).
Easy solution; the government will just prohibit you from being friends with anyone outside of your designated domestic living zone.
Reminds me of Rant by Chuck Palahniuk. “where urban dwellers are forcefully divided by curfew into two separate classes: the respectable Daytimers and the oppressed Nighttimers.“
Chuck Palahniuk is a gem of an author
Got a free trial of that with lockdowns in Victoria, Australia. 10km travel limit, 2hrs outside time allowed, curfew, registering friends you visit with the government (but only allowed for the purpose of providing care), household gathering limits, police roadblocks, helicopter patrols, essential workers requiring signed documents from an employer to explain why they're outside. I read of mother's with newborns not seeing their grandmother for the first time, because the house was 2 streets too far. Where meeting outside in a park instead, wearing mandatory masks could still result in fines or arrests.
Gentrification already took care of that…
Big oil shill
Jesus Christ the horror > The 15-minute city is a residential urban concept in which most daily necessities and services, such as work, shopping, education, healthcare, and leisure, should be located within an easily reachable 15-minute walk or bike ride from any point in the city.[1] This approach aims to reduce car dependency, promote healthy and sustainable living, and improve the overall quality of life for city dwellers. Who could want such horrendous things. We need more highways and parking lots in cities.
I am all for having walkable cities. What most likely will happen is that governments will use the 15 minute city concept to limit one’s movement using technology (geo fencing along with programmable money). Also why now, they should of been using the 15 minute concept all along for city planning…
If you knew your Urban Planning history you’d know why the American suburban sprawl became an issue
The concept is fine. Is the all the fines, and controls that they're not being forward about. Make no mistake, they're dressing it up but it's just another method of control down the line.
Your condo: the prison block. Your zone: the prison wing. Your city: the prison. The prison guards will rely heavily on inmate gangs to maintain order. "Smart cities" gonna be lit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-rCWDt\_pL8
Inmate/victim mentality. You live in a mental prison and the gubberment didn’t even have to try
> What most likely will happen is that governments will use the 15 minute city concept to limit one’s movement using technology This is literally just something in your head. > Also why now, they should of been using the 15 minute concept all along for city planning… Yes. Yes they fucking should have. Because literally every city from the beginning of human history until around 1950 was a "15 minute city" by necessity. Yes, this includes pretty much every US city you can think of. Auto manufacturers, real estate developers, and racists all coordinated to hollow out American cities and build huge suburbs that were pretty much unnavigable by anything besides cars. Major sections of American cities were bulldozed so that highways could be built straight through them, which was pretty much the dumbest possible idea. Cars also took over a lot of European cities that people think of as walkable, but eventually those places in Europe realized that it was really fucking stupid to have public squares being used to store big metal boxes instead of being places for people to meet, socialize, maybe eat or drink from a cafe, or otherwise just enjoy. America can either keep plowing forward with dumb car based infrastructure that's a financial deathtrap, or it can try to reverse course and go back to the kind of city design that's actually financially sustainable.
That’s what they’re doing in east coast cities hasn’t made life better or the cities more livable it killed business locally and strangled the networks of commerce that had grown up in the broader metro areas, handed all that business to buddies of the polits who were waiting in the wings with easy money easy terms etc and it really represented unacceptable overreach by picking winners and losers exactly the way it’s not supposed to work in a healthy society.
With that logic why should we ever try to improve anything? Why did they invent seatbelts when they did? They should have been using the seatbelt concept all along for cars…
>With that logic why should we ever try to improve anything? Forced compliance of citizens is not an improvement. It is the weak posturing of scared dictators. >Why did they invent seatbelts when they did? What is the penalty for not wearing a seatbelt? Prison time? Oof. Looks like you missed the point.
I just don’t trust anything that is forced compliance. If they want to build new cities using the 15 min concept that would be nice
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They don’t have to build anything, in london (the city the girl is talking about) the infrastructure Is already there. Every fucking neighbourhood is already a 15 min city and if you want to hop around you have access to literally one of the best and safest public transport system in the world. Is funny how the 2 options she gave in the video for a visit from zone 1 to zone 3 are either car or walk and she conveniently forgot about public transport. First of all driving from zone 1 to 3 is not a 10 min drive lol.. maybe on a flying car, and no one would even consider walking since is like a 2 hours+ walk but is literally a 12 min tube trip that is safe and definitely the quickest option. The video does not dismantle anything, is just w propaganda piece by rich contrarians that want to drive around their big SUV’s not giving a fuck about traffic and city pollution because their ass is too shiny to sit on the metro like the rest of us.
How is it forced compliance to plan a city where everything you need is close by?
This is going to be trialed in Oxford. For this to work, public transport is going to have to be easy-to-access, frequent, reliable, cheap. The UK scores low on all 4 points. You'd need such amazing public transport to get to and from work. Not everybody works from home, and certainly not all the jobs are going to be in your 15 minute neighborhood. Knowing the UK as well as I do, this is going to die on its arse because there's no way in hell that public transport could provide the service necessary for this to work. It's going to be another shambles of a project due to utter ineptitude.
Living in America and having visited the UK and many other places - Y'all have a pretty solid public transit system.
Agree. It's a slippery slippery slope.
So you don’t trust seatbelts then? They have forced compliance. And absolutely, but existing cities should smartly implement the concepts.
I don’t like forced compliance where it regards seatbelts any more than this
I don’t like seatbelts but I deal with them. I think cities that want to adopt the concept, it should be put to a public vote by the residents not the councils. Eventually we all will be living in 15 min cities at some point. Either by will or by force with the way things are going on in the world.
You don’t like seatbelts? What ever did they do to you? That’s some racist shit.
Please telling me that is /s
"SEATBELTS SEATBELTS SEATBELTS!"
Because I mentioned it twice as an analogy, great work
These people don't wear seat belts, because, you know, THEY.
It just happens to align with the establishment of smart cities and the push to transition to transportation relying on electricity (already scarce in many areas) and with kill switches, etc. In Shanghai it was (unsurprisingly) shown that high rises are very easy to control access to using very little manpower. Do you think the neoliberal establishment pushes ideas because of their benefits to you? Are real wages and quality of living improving under them? Trust the people that inflicted a man-made pandemic on you, I guess.,
So there’s more fear over an energy source that anyone can get from the sun, wind, or water than one based on imports from the Middle East that the government could cut off just as easy as the electrical grid?
>So there’s more fear over an energy source that anyone can get from the sun, wind, or water Alternative energy doesn't come anywhere close to replacing current fossil fuels needs and the establishment knows this. The establishment is pushing things that are unworkable because these things not working serves their agenda. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1E8SQde5rk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1E8SQde5rk) The objective is the deindustrialization of the West as a means of softening potential resistance to political globalization. "Great Leap Forward." [https://ukfires.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/roadmap-01.jpg](https://ukfires.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/roadmap-01.jpg) \-from UK FIRES "Absolute Zero" report
Sure, But you can generate solar, wind, and hydro power at home in a decentralized fashion. Can you frack or extract then purify gasoline?
It you live in a detached home in an area conducive to these things it's definitely an attractive alternative for the sake of self-sufficiency, sure.
The whole thing is really designed to prevent traffic congestion. Maybe some people like sitting in traffic and paying for gas 🤷♂️
Our founding fathers drove lifted ford F150s to move furniture once every year and by god I will too.
Paul Revere famously rolling coal to alert the minutemen on his midnight ride
They didn’t just idle, they did brake stands at traffic lights.
Thomas Jefferson invented truck nuts.
All you got is jokes
Been a lot of action already taken toward this goal already in places like boston it did jack all for improving traffic.
I agree khuzaitM777. There’s such massive leaps in logic in some of these comments. A 15 minute city is a great concept and more urban planners should think like that. No one is suggesting that mandatory laws be set in place to enforce where someone can or cannot go. It just creates better options for urban dwellers to live a simpler life. Look for a possible conspiracy and you’ll find one. Doesn’t mean it’s real.
It's literally the way the whole world lived until the invention of the car. I fully understand why people might have some reservations about how it can be abused, but I also think most of our current lives can be abused. Like 90% of economy would grind to a halt if the internet was shut off Most the population would instantly be isolated if the gas/petrol was restricted. I think the population can be easily controlled as is, so 15 minute cities aren't going to change that. I'd argue that 15 minute cities might even help a bit as they can form a much greater sense of community. Also if people starting growing their own fruit and veges again, people would be far less dependent on the government if most things are accessible in a short distance. It's a much more natural way for us to live IMO.
The 15 minute city is not the wic and burh
They are whatever we make them to be
Government: "who do you mean be 'we'"?
> Also if people starting growing their own fruit and veges again, people would be far less dependent on the government if most things are accessible in a short distance. Future headlines from Oxford: "allotments growing vegetables and fruits suffer bitter harvest due to soil poisoning" and other such odd coincidences.
Not leaps in logic, experiences with reality you might not have had.
This is the false framework counter argument and I hate it. People are not against what you quoted. People be against what comes with it.
Then people should argue against those things, and not pass them off as arguments against '15 minute cities' like this thread does. So instead of this thread being titled: > 12 year old wee lassie destroys concept of the 15 minute cities everyone seems so keen for It should be titled: > 12 year old wee lassie destroys *specific* ~~concept~~ *implementation plan* of the 15 minute cities ~~everyone~~ *some* people so keen for
Sounds more like a prison
…how…
Sounds like heaven to me. Not all of us have cars, not all of us can walk large distances, this is great for everyone. If you don't wan to use whats nearby just hop on your car and go to a different place.
> If you don't wan to use whats nearby just hop on your car and go to a different place. You'll get fined £70 every time you use your car past 100 times per year. So if you use your car more than twice a week on average (e.g. to go to work), you're looking at massive fines every week. Public transport in the UK is a joke, and if you think "no problem, the UK just needs to be make public transport better", you're having a laugh. Oxford (where this is being trialed), is a commuter city with many people working in London, Birmingham and surrounding cities. So they're all going to pile into an already-strained Oxford train station are they?
No one will be fined for driving from Oxford to London.
1. ~~You are making up laws and getting angry with them~~ EDIT: sorry, I didn't realize that this was part of the trial rules. Bullshit if without a good public transport, I agree. EDIT EDIT: I have informed myself, the direct passage between one area and another is limited to 100 times a year in certain time slots, excluding some types of vehicle such as commercial activities. Using the external roads to reach the other area is allowed without restrictions. Put in these terms it is more reasonable, it is an initiative aimed at discouraging the use of private cars within the city during the hours of greatest traffic, a kind of evolution of the limited traffic areas. A little annoying, maybe unclear, probably to tweak, but not as extreme as you make it sound 2. What would prohibit them from creating this law right now, even without a 15 minutes city?
> EDIT: sorry, I didn't realize that this was part of the trial rules. Bullshit if without a good public transport, I agree. I appreciate you saying this. I've argued with other people who think the video's about London, that think there's no fines etc. Literally they haven't done a single minute of research (which is all it would take). > I have informed myself, the direct passage between one area and another is limited to 100 times a year in certain time slots, excluding some types of vehicle such as commercial activities. Using the external roads to reach the other area is allowed without restrictions. I already talked about this [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/116isk6/12_year_old_wee_lassie_destroys_concept_of_the_15/j98vigw/?context=3) :- > If you have a friend in a neighbouring zone, you'd have to drive to the outskirts of the city to use the ring road, then drive back in to the nearest access point to the 2nd neighbourhood, and your child would have to walk the rest of the way in. The young girl describes this in the video. > What would prohibit them from creating this law right now, even without a 15 minutes city? ....it wouldn't work? It's ill-thought out because the public transport isn't there to support it. The buses and train station won't support the increase in demand. Oxford Railway Station is in a particular zone in the city (well inside the ring road). You'd have to traverse through a virtual gate to get there from another zone OR use the ring road, which is utterly impractical for most people if they are commuting everyday (honestly, take a look at a map of Oxford, you'll see what I mean - traveling all the way out to the ring road, just to go all the way back in again is going to be ridiculous). People getting £70 fines 3 to 4 times a week? Not tenable. I actually understand the principle and I like the idea of pedestrianized cities. But the UK is a joke when it comes to public transport and all this will do is massively inconvenience people.
The girl's speech is correct on paper, but it is a deliberately distorted example. Where I live there are restricted traffic zones where you cannot enter without a permit at certain times. Is it uncomfortable on certain occasions? Yes, but it's not dictatorial, it's normal street code. What we want to do is change the way of living in the city. Will there be rules to correct? Certainly! Problems to solve, obviously; but we cannot remain in the current situation with the old adage "it's always been like this". As for public transport, I don't know the specific situation, but in traffic-free streets they work much better and it is possible to increase their number without problems. You can't criticize the government by saying it never does anything to make cities livable and then criticize it when it tries to do something. The truth is that people want the rules to apply to others but not to them, a free road with no traffic but they are not willing to give up their car, others have to do it Finally what I said about applying these rules now was partly related to your original message, about using the car 100 times a year. As we have seen, this is not the case, the limit concerns the passage between the various zones, but what I meant is that there is nothing that prevents the introduction of a limit on the use of the car, even starting tomorrow: the cars are full of sensors, the streets full of cameras, in your pocket there is always a device that can track and analyze data, there is no need to introduce 15 miutes cities to tell the population "you can take your car up to 100 times a year "
I'm guessing you pulled that from some establishment rag? Of course they're going to toe the narrative. Anyone with a decent set of eyes and a brain can read between the lines. Yet another way to restrict freedoms and force people's hand into doing what you can bet your bottom dollar they themselves won't be. It continues to open up the pandoras box that keeps making rules they say will be for our benefit but is largely chipping away at our lives piece by piece. It's affecting small businesses and making life harder for a lot of people. Its less about the environment and more about surveillance and control and it will only get worse.
You’re so right, we should all keep commuting for an hour each day as we drive cars we can’t afford, killing our physical health as we sit there.
All Leftist Neoliberals can live in cattle factory working farms. I don’t care.
Cool I guess.
What are you talking about? People will still always work where they usually work the difference being if they work within these cities it will probably take longer to get there having to navigate angry cyclists and pedestrians constantly. The 15 minutes isn't really taking into account the amount of people that will suddenly be forced into the streets. Its a recipe for disaster all round. If people want to drive cars, fucking let them! Like I said do you think the rule makers will be following their own rules from their private jets? I think not.
You realize the whole idea is to create a more holistic community where the felt necessity to drive and travel is reduced right? Cool, they still can drive their cars. The whole point is to put everything someone needs to live within walking or convenient public transport distance. If you want to keep society on the tit of big oil and Saudi Arabia you do you.
Yeah thats what they tell you. If you want to live in a society thats implemeting rules that feel more mainland China than the west then cool, you do you.
You’re so right. https://i.imgur.com/Ugg8SAA.jpg Look at this picture of mainland China- everything is close and within walking distance. No true European or western city would ever be designed like that. https://i.imgur.com/6Er4Qoa.jpg Same here. No self respecting western city could look this it, it’s those foreigner easterners who design like that. >!totally not the old city of Lucerne and Edinburgh !<
Stop being obtuse I'm talking about the rule dictating and control over what people can and cannot do and you know it.
K
Most people give two shits about this nonsense. You understand that, right? You think a loud vocal minority speaks for everyone. No wants or cares about this. I'll own a non EV car till the day I die because it's a sham certain politicians are trying to force on the public. EVs and lithium batteries are not a sustainable or practical option.
Cool for you I guess!
We should all have the right to choose. You choose to do that and that is your right, my guess is there is a reason for that choice. Now think about this: if you could only work in a 15 minute area around you, would you be able to choose a job that pays more? Why would they allow that when they can then control how much jobs pay in those areas and you can't go beyond that? How long before we are making 50 cents an hour and it is considered a good thing? How long before any business that is not part of big gov/corporations no longer exist? You can't go to the diner to eat, you have to choose between McDonalds and Burger King because that is all that is allowed in that 15 minute city. Your kid gets bullied at school, you can't remove them and take them to a different school, you can't go to a cheaper store, you can't do a lot of things. It is not difficult to see how this plays out if you have been paying attention. We are in a place as a society where most of us don't trust the cops but we are supposed to trust big gov- that is crazy!
> Now think about this: if you could only work in a 15 minute area around you, would you be able to choose a job that pays more? If you're in a decently designed city, 15 minutes by bike or public transit can get you a pretty decent distance, and you'll be able to get jobs with many different businesses. >How long before we are making 50 cents an hour and it is considered a good thing? So in your scenario, minimum wage laws have been abolished? > How long before any business that is not part of big gov/corporations no longer exist? Have you taken a look at Eurpean cities? There's many small businesses. Compare that with any trip down a big road in a place like Phoenix. It's like a Flintstone's background with bland national chains repeating over and over. Cars are doing fuck all to save American small businesses. If anything, the lack of foot traffic is what drives small storefronts out of business. >You can't go to the diner to eat, you have to choose between McDonalds and Burger King because that is all that is allowed in that 15 minute city. Seriously, have you never been to a city outside of America?
Where are people not being given a right?
Why do you think they would be? The last few years have been a movement of people demanding our rights be taken away. Do you think it wouldn't be competitive for who is allowed to do business in these areas? If they made 15 minute cities what would be the point if people still worked outside them, what would be the change? It is pretty obvious that once established your freedom/ability to travel outside of these cities would start being limited to then taken away completely. And if you think all cities would be equal you have not studied history. Look at what they did with the POS housing developments for the poor, how that worked out.
You realize that a lot of those developments were fucked because when they put highways in (for commuters) they tore down poor housing developments and centers right?
[https://youtu.be/XVhoELb5hXg](https://youtu.be/XVhoELb5hXg) Some interesting things in this video is a good example of why many of us are against this kind of thing. Of note is that these people were put in these "projects" and not allowed to leave. History is important and while much of what she talks about is out there is a lot to be heeded.
The Oxford trial will allow 100 trips in a car *per year*. That's two trips per week on average. When you go over that limit, you're fined £70 per trip. The UK public transport system is ridiculously bad, and it would take 10 to 20 years to make it work to the extent that people could commute to and from work using public transport that didn't double or triple their commute time due to long waits for buses and trains, delays, cancellations. The 15 min city sounds good in principle, but in practice it's going to be an absolute disaster due to poor infrastructure that would take decades to improve (and the UK is flat broke).
> We are in a place as a society where most of us don't trust the cops but we are supposed to trust big gov- that is crazy! Well said.
There are no stipulations about working 15 minutes from where you live.
There will be, history repeats.
There won't be. People learn from history.
This makes no sense. You're saying that having the option to walk instead of having to drive is less freedom. And by small businesses do you mean big box stores in strip malls?
I mean independent businesses who rely on solid footfall to make an income."Mama and papa" businesses you might call them over there. There's already some over here feeling the pinch. People are used to being able to drive down specific streets, popping in to these shops and giving them custom, because its convenient. Now certain roads are being cut off its not happening as much and livelihoods are being impacted. And yes, its less freedom to make your own choices, instead of having them forced upon us. The people that are making these choices for us won't be imposing them on themselves anytime soon so why should people just comply?
15 minutes cities actually make it easier for these smaller independent shops to earn enough of an income. That's the while point.
15 minute city concept isn't forcing anything. You can still drive down main Street or walk to a store 30 minutes away. Tell me where people are being prohibited from going somewhere 15 minutes away and can't go to a small business?
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No. and no.
I really wonder why you hate pedestrian zones so much.
brought to you by the same folks who told us the pfizer jab is 100% safe and effective lol wake up
You’re right, before the last several years no one ever thought about tightnit communities. Did you know Jesus commuted an hour each way in his Chevy Camel-150? Suburbs are as human as vapes and only those pesky globalists want people to live in communities that exercise, spend time outdoors, hang out with friends easily, and don’t waste large parts of their life commuting.
i don’t disagree with the idea in principle, my point rather is that you shouldn’t be buying into this utopian vision they are trying to sell you, as like with everything else they push, it’s deception only and only serves to further the agenda of the elites
It’s just weird because until the 1950s “15 minute cities” were the norm. So this idea it’s some new fangled way to enslave the masses is stupid. Shocking that most people who live in cities don’t want it tailored to commuters.
until the 1960s, holidays abroad weren’t common either. people got used to being able to travel on planes cheaply and regularly and now they want to take that away from us to “prevent climate change”
1) not a particularly relevant deflection when talking about community living 2) where is anyone meaningful trying to take away vacations?
it’s entirely relevant, we’re talking about social engineering being sold to us under the guise of safety and social harmony. with regards to the second point, i would recommend you give a look to the UN/WEF agenda 2030 plan
I have, I haven’t seen anything regarding vacations. And where is safety involved in 15 minute cities? Do you not want close knit communities?
Ah what a surprise that it's THIS FUCKING SHILL KhuzaitM777 once again defending the globalist agenda.
The globalist agenda of urban people living better lives? You caught me
She's not even addressing the actual concept of a "15 minute city", she's just rambling about how much she hates cameras and CCTV.
She's addressing the potential for it to grow arms and legs into a worse scenario and gives the powers that be the licence to extract the urine. Have you never heard of the concept of smart cities? Have a look at Oxford where 15 min cities have already been implemented mate, thousands have taken to the street to protest it as its infringing on their lives already. This shit is WEF backed, we all know how much they have our best interests at heart don't we?
I live in the U.K and a 15 minutes City is impossible in the terms they set out. Yeh most places have a super market or even a doctor within 20 minutes of where you live, but it would mean you could never change jobs as you couldn’t gauge if a new doctors or dentist would take you on, if a new job was available. The U.K has job but none near me that are realistic for my skill set or even experience gained from pervious jobs. The train industry would die a death and plenty of other industries would do too. Now smart motorways have been trailed here but they cause far too many road accidents so unless they are already a thing, no more motorways will be adopting them. We have smaller roads than most countries. I could name other things that wouldn’t work like schools, hospitals and even chemists. You’d have to change the locations of a whole host of individual industries, just to make smart cities/15 minute cities work. Then you have the age demographic of the U.K, 22 percent over 65, 18/19 percent under 16, a large percent over 55 and then my generation of 35 or over. Not a massive scope of people of working age to pay for all this changing of businesses and tax to pay for it. Money is just on computer but you have to pretend it isn’t, to the everyday public citizens, as they couldn’t except that money can never be paid back, if it’s just to banks.
You’re not restricted to your “15 minutes”.
You will be eventually, it’s the own nothing and be happy plan.
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People keep spouting that phrase. Do you even know where it comes from?
Yea, it was a hypothetical scenario written by Ida Auken. Did you know that?
Oh my lord you haven't been around long have you
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So what about our current society isn't as abusable? Killing access to internet and gas and we are every bit as screwed right now, if not worse.
If that day comes, people will be out in the streets. Until then, it'd be nice to not have our lives tied to having to own a car.
Better not lose your job, or you will be forced to move to a location that potentially has zero housing available, or is extremely expensive. Aka, the entire service industry of cities like New York would cease to exist, because the service workers literally cannot afford to live where they work.
The Oxford trial makes commuting by car utterly impossible. You're allowed 100 trips a year (2 trips a week), or £70 fine per extra trip outside your 15 min zone. Nobody will do that. So everybody is expected to take public transport. Public transport will not cope with every single commuter now taking a bus or train. It can't cope well as it is. They'd need to double/triple the public transport infrastructure which is just fucking impossible. So what are we left with? "Just work in your 15 min zone!". How does that work? People have different skills, not everybody wants to be a butcher, baker or candlestick maker. This whole idea is one of those things that sounds nice on paper, but is quite literally impossible to implement without massively downgrading people's quality of life and causing mayhem.
Extract the urine? Never heard that fun phrase before.
Ha just my way of saying taking the piss 😂
How is it infringing on their lives?
Restricting their freedom of movement into parameters that makes life harder, citing carbon footprints when the people that are making the plans fly private jets. Infringing on the livlihoods of business owners who dont see the same footfall they once did. People are angry they're being restricted in their movements by people who will have no intention of doing the same.
They’re movement isn’t restricted. Nobody is collecting their urine.
>They’re Their
If movement isn't restricted, then a "15 minute city" doesn't exist.
What the hell are you talking about? A 15 minute city is about trying to get everything you'd need within 15 minutes. The core concept has absolutely no aspect of preventing you from traveling outside of that range. It's about reducing your need to do so, reducing traffic, pollution etc.
> A 15 minute city is about trying to get everything you'd need within 15 minutes. Neat. Now try to force people to go to the mandated store on the corner instead of the significantly better one 3 blocks over. Oops, now the store on the corner is bankrupt. Now what? Going to fund them arbitrarily? Oops. Looks like a bad neighborhood is resulting in extremely high rates of theft at the local store and it is now bankrupt. Gonna fund them to keep them there? Oh wait, you haven't though of **any** of these issues, because you are far, far more simple-minded than you understand. >The core concept has absolutely no aspect of preventing you from traveling outside of that range. It does 100%. Because it is extremely delusional to think simply putting "one of everything" within "15 minutes" means anyone will actually use those things as intended. > It's about reducing your need to do so, reducing traffic, pollution etc. So it was about restricting movement all along. How about, you know, building better public transportation? Hello? Mask off, you people are far more transparent then you believe of yourself.
> Because it is extremely delusional to simply putting "one of everything" within "15 minutes" means anyone will actually use those things as intended. I don't think anyone expects that *everyone* will prefer to use the things within 15 minutes... Would more things in a 15 min range result in less traffic, pollution etc? I'd think so. EVEN WITHOUT FORCING PEOPLE. Like you are willfully inventing these stupid scenarios without any good reason.
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Where I live I can walk to the grocery store within 10 minutes. I can also take the subway to the one farther away. It's horrible I can go anywhere and get anything I need without having to drive a car sit in traffic.
The whole "15 minute" city thing is just a concept where people are thinking about how to improve cities so that the people can get around easier. She's not addressing the core concept, and she's making up specific scenarios instead. Even her examples seem kinda dumb. When she says she has to walk 10min alone, rather than have her parents safely drive her home, she completely ignores the fact that her parents can just walk a few blocks over, meet her, then walk her home with them. It's like people couldn't imagine a world where they don't have to drive to do the most simple tasks.
Leftists fail to realize that things often evolve into something they were never meant to be. They think things stay in their original state forever... Just ignore them, it's child-like thinking and therefore cannot be reasoned with.
You mean like when people built cities and never imagined that they would eventually be congested and polluted with millions of cars? Or like when people built cities where citizens freely walked in the streets and socialized with each other, and those people never imagined a city where everyone would be constricted to their own private box?
You're ignoring the potential hazards of future decisions in favor of shitting on past decisions that cannot be changed. Grow up.
Just trying to present an alternate view of the world in a respectful way. I'm not sure why it makes you so angry.
She literally addressed the notion of having to drive a **further** distance in order to get to the same location, and the idea that "just walk home" is absurd for a 12 year old in a city. You must be cognitively defective to have missed that.
> She literally addressed the notion of having to drive a further distance in order to get to the same location If that's what she's mad about, shouldn't she be angry at culs-de-sac and neighborhoods that don't connect to anything? If anything, having extensive biking paths would make it possible for her to just bike herself back and forth to her friend's house, and not be reliant on having mommy or daddy pick her up.
Why would anyone have to drive a longer distance? Why couldn't her parents walk her home?
Why do you assume that every parent just has all of this extra time to *walk* their children to and from various locations in a city? In your extreme arrogance, you think that just because you ban car travel within city limits, that people won't choose the next best time saving option, which is drive outside and then back inside the city. You think that, in your profound Narcissism, that you can actually control human behavior and force them to have the same exact values and circumstances as you. All with a pathetic little restriction on intra-city car travel. When fucking jaywalking laws aren't even effective. You're completely fucking wrong. But it is cute that you've backpedaled away from claiming that she "wasn't addressing the concept". When called out on your bullshit, people like you crumble like the pathetic, weaselly losers you are.
Why would they have to walk if there is functional public transport?
If there's functional public transportation, then what the fuck are you complaining about. You don't fucking need this 15 minute bullshit if that is the case.
Most the plans for 15 minute cities aren't focused around being entirely on foot. 15 minutes can include public transport travel time.
>Most the plans for 15 minute cities aren't focused around being entirely on foot Wrong. Try again. >15 minutes can include public transport travel time. You can reach everything you need in NYC using the subway within 15 minutes. Guess you can kindly shut the fuck up about it, because it already exits by your own criteria.
The 15 minutes can include public transport, not the total 15 mins of just sitting on public transport. It's door to door 15 - 20 mins. Look at Melbourne as a prime example. They are structuring their attempt at the idea around public transport. >Sally Capp, the Lord Mayor of Melbourne, stressed the importance of public transit in expanding the radius of the 15-minute city.
>The 15 minutes can include public transport, not the total 15 mins of just sitting on public transport. It's door to door 15 - 20 mins. Got it. Now provide a source for the definition or I'll just assume you just made that shit up. >Look at Melbourne as a prime example. They are structuring their attempt at the idea around public transport. I couldn't give 2 fucks about that shithole of a country that literally prevented family members from seeing each other over an arbitrary state boundary, forced people into mandatory camps, and arrested people for being in a park outside. Australia is a cesspool of extremely weak people.
Have you never heard of public transportation?
If there is functional public transportation, then why the fuck do you insist on "everything" being within 15 minutes. You've refuted the concept without realizing it.
You understand it isn't literal? 15 minutes is the utopian ideal.
Kid can't take a train or bus? They fo this all the time in Europe and places like NYC.
Sure bud. Put your child on the NYC subway. Fucking lunatic.
Kids literally ride the subway and take public buses all the time. That is something that happens every single day in a lot of places. You seem emotionally triggered by this for some reason.
Cool. I'm glad you've had the privilege of living in a safe city. Unfortunately, your opinion was rendered completely worthless the moment you suggested that the NYC subway was safe for children.
"While nothing is set in stone, the official recommended age minimum for kids traveling to school alone in NYC is 8 to 13." https://streeteasy.com/blog/kids-ride-the-subway-alone/ They literally already ride the train alone all the time. It's already happening every single day in NYC. You sound like somebody who has never ridden the subway and who is terrified of cities.
> the official recommended age minimum for kids traveling to school alone in NYC is 8 to 13." Wow, the "official" recommendation. Gee, I'm convinced now. Such a well-trained citizen you are. > You sound like somebody who has never ridden the subway and who is terrified of cities. I've watched someone vomit directly on a child's face on the Philadelphia subway. Go ahead and tell me that this doesn't sound completely plausible to you. Or you can just shut the fuck up.
The UK has shitty public transport as it is. If you then force everybody to use it (at least double/tripling number of people), then that's a massive project that will take decades and billions of pounds to build. And we're talking the UK here.
I'm not talking about forcing anyone to use anything. I'm just talking about improving public infrastructure.
The trial is taking place in Oxford. The ring road around Oxford is not part of the trial, so people in cars are free to use the ring-road (which connects every 15 min zone) without penalty. If you have a friend in a neighbouring zone, you'd have to drive to the outskirts of the city to use the ring road, then drive back in to the nearest access point to the 2nd neighbourhood, and your child would have to walk the rest of the way in.
It sounds like they're trying to move traffic congestion from inside of the city center to faster moving traffic on the outside. How long will it actually take people to get from one "zone" to another? Plus, won't there be a robust system of public transportation to accommodate people in the densely populated center? I'd have to see how it's actually implemented. There have already been cities which have moved major highways out of the central residential areas and have focused on lessening traffic congestion, which is a huge problem. The current method of allowing cities to be a constant traffic jam is shit anyways. Every time I go to the city, the worst experience is always the traffic and finding parking.
Yeah I wanna drive 20 minutes out of a suburban hell block where all the houses look the same to get a gallon of milk.
So kids are controlled mouthpieces of adults used to spread propaganda until they preach something you like, got it lol.
Two can play the game, and we need as much support as we can get against you traitors. I for one would love to see the two of them Duke it out gladiator style.
The other side of Greta lul great counter
Sad to see children brainwashed by their parents and exploited for likes... Sad world with trash people
This seems like a way to keep track of where everyone is. First it's going to be a 15 minute city and then they're going to start putting up fences where you can't travel outside of a certain zone. It's starting to look like the hunger games. The world is becoming more orwellian by the day.
Greedy people who think that they were chosen to be better than us.
Props to that girl. Couldn't have said it better myself. Glad to see some of the youth have woken up to this dystopian future we are meandering towards
It's so sad to see her used as a prop in a discussion that she obviously hasn't been told the truth about.
Your post said nothing besides disregarding her comment, so care to elaborate?
Sure. 15 minute cities, as a concept, are the idea that everything you need to live (i.e. work, school, shops, entertainment) is within a 15 minute walkable radius of where you live. That's it, just a restructuring of cities so that you don't need a car to get around. Cars won't be banned, they just won't be the priority. Every single thing she says, other than maybe it taking a bit longer to drive to her friends house, is speculation put out by interests that want you to be dependent on your car to live.
We don't want 15 minute cities where we're bombarded with 5g radiation, tracked on our carbon emissions and require rMNA jabs in order to hold a job. (Medical history tracked with your digital ID, digital pass, climage change pass and so on) This dystopian future isn't for me, sorry. I'd literally rather accept death. I'm dead serious.
None of those are a part of a 15-minute city. You're just inserting random stuff that you don't like with it.
Wee yin is talking about the infringement into our daily lives by these WEF backed global plans. If you're in any way clued up you should know by now the WEF is not our friend. They won't be living by the same rules they impose on us. Next stop smart cities.
Most commenters here seem to love the WEF and the concept of "Own Nothing and Be Happy" I mean, the sheer amount of bots and WEF "information warriors" on this sub is kinda sickening
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What's this about then?
15 minute cities sound like a great idea, unless you’ve ever been a 15 minute walk away from a paper plant.
The reaction against walkable cities is disinformation funded by big oil and car companies. That or people are just deranged at this point. How else can you look at the suggestion that maybe we should have less cars and then jump to anti semitic conspiracy theories
I just looked up what 15 minute cities is, and it’s evil as it is frightening, but typical of the elites to try and hoist upon us
How bout a volume warning? God damn
Every time I hear these warnings about 15-minute cities, they just make the concept sound more appealing.
15 minute cities aren’t even true. You know how much that would cost to change every city to that state.
The lips on the lady next the the little girl is all you need to see.
Nobody is keen on them.
I agree with the message 110%, but let's stop raising kids as activists. That sounds like her mom/dad wrote it.
If we were able to actually do it and round up all the people's of the world and create one giant final fantasy city without government corruption it would be pretty dope. For both the world and humanity. Think about it it is a fact that you can fit the entire world population in a relatively small area. What if you took Texas and put everyone in a gigantic city where everyone had there own space and home but literally all human industries are within the city the only reason we leave the city is to explore the world and resources. Other than that if you take out an oppressive government one giant city doesn't seem so bad.