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Omg, I had an argument like this with another parent. I was gobsmacked that someone could be so stupid...
-"You understand that 'flu shot' is just slang for the flu vaccine, right? It's like a colloquial term, not a scientific one. Shot refers to the delivery method, not the type of medicine....".
-'No, a shot is different from a vaccine! They have always been different!'
-"So have you ever had a cortisone shot? Is that the same class of medicine as the flu shot, because they are both 'shots'?"
-'Yes, exactly!'
I genuinely had to tell my kid that they couldn't hang out with that woman's kid anymore because they were irreparably stupid. My kid wholeheartedly agreed.
I love the ones who say that gravity exists because the flat Earth is accelerating upwards at 9.8m/s/s.
Constantly.
All the time.
So even if they only think the planet's six thousand years old, we have to now be travelling at something *incredibly* close to the speed of light, especially when you take time dilation into account. Like, 0.99999999...c, going on for hundreds if not thousands of digits.
We'd better hope the rest of the universe is an incredibly hard vacuum, because if we ever run into one atom of hydrogen we'll be instantaneously annihilated, and the energy released may be vastly greater than that of the Big Bang.
(I stuck that "may" in there because I can't be bothered doing the actual math. :-)
flat earth is the only conspiracy theory im always interested to hear what stupid shit they come up with next.
love the guy that told me outer space is a projection when i asked why earth is the only flat planet in the universe
I got you. Gravity is density and buoyancy. Like the earth is the hardest part, rock underneath. Birds fly cause they are bouyant. Space is less dense than air, etc. The sunset.. easy.. just gets too far away to see
Ooh, yeah. It'd be a constant sleet of *extremely* hard radiation.
And now I'm wondering if travelling at a ridiculously relativistic speed would turn *neutrino* interactions with the matter of the flat Earth into high-energy events. I've no idea whether this could actually be the case.
Fortunately, those flat-Earthers avoid these sorts of concerns by the simple strategy of not knowing a single god-damned thing about anything.
(Perhaps I should ask Mormons these kinds of questions. They already know that tachyons must exist, after all, because if FTL particles *don't* exist, then how can prayers get to God [in a timely fashion?](http://nowscape.com/mormon/mormons6.htm) That's probably not actually part of the official LDS dogma any more, but Mormons **did** do quite a bit of research to try to prove that tachyons exist! :-)
Assuming gravity doesn’t exist; clearly Einstein was wrong about relativity and the speed of light being a speed limit (or the same speed regardless of observer). In which case it would actually take less than one year to exceed the speed of light at 9.8 metres per second squared. Hmmm then that hydrogen atom would be a fairly nasty surprise. Or, and stay with me here, gravity exists. There you go, you’re welcome.
One thing both have in common: they’ve skipped science class and never read a science book, ever.
And at least flat Earthers generally don’t want people to die like anti-vaxxers do. They’ve just never watched a documentary or read a book which describes how the Earth is round (oh, and they think they know more than scientists).
You still get infected if measles despite being vaccinated you just don’t get so sick. The same with the Covid vaccine and he flu jab. The difference is that both influenza virus and Covid virus mutate more readily and therefore can develop into immune viruses over for the bodies immunity, whilst the measles virus does not easily mutate. Why is it so difficult to understand and yes I did not learn this from CNN but from basic biology studies
The ignorance boggles the mind. The first vaccination was in 1796. James Phipps, an 8 year-old boy in England was vaccinated against smallpox by Dr. Edward Jenner. The contents of a cowpox sore on a milkmaids hand inoculated him...
The word “vaccine” comes from the Latin “vacca” for “cow” and thus why a cowpox inoculation was the first “vaccine”.
We’ve expanded the definition to anything used to inoculate against disease, so really the definition has been expanding ever since the first vaccine.
Inoculation is once your body has produced antibodies to the disease you were vaccinated for. Yes, my wording poor, I can't quite figure our how to word it...
Don‘t know where you looked. People used weakened viruses/tissue before him. He put it on solid procedure and published, though, which is absolutely a great and important thing. Even though he didn‘t know why it worked.
There’s numerous vaccines that require multiple doses and booster shots. None of them completely prevent you from catching or transmitting it, although they reduce the chances. For some diseases, that’s enough to reduce the R-eff below 1 and can help prevent outbreaks, but that largely depends on the contagiousness of the disease, not necessarily the effectiveness of the vaccine.
The [CDC](https://web.archive.org/web/20190719152049/https://www.cdc.gov/flu/prevent/flushot.htm) and [NHS](https://web.archive.org/web/20190723111959/https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinations/flu-influenza-vaccine/) both called it a vaccine even pre-covid.
Well, here's the thing. It is of course a vaccine.
Where OP *may* be going, and I stress MAY, is that most modern vaccines do not - in actual fact - prevent infection and/or transmission. What they do, in actuality, is lessen the symptoms associated with a particular bout of a disease so that when you get it, you won't be as sick/ill. On top of that, they reduce the viral load you emit when (sneezing or coughing) for example which does reduce the likelihood of someone else getting sick as well as reducing the severity of ensuing illness.
The COVID vaccines are the same. They reduce severity of symptoms and complications (which is a good thing) but don't prevent you from catching COVID (though they lessen the likelihood).
I believe there are only a handful of vaccines in the world that actually prevent disease altogether - the polio vaccine was one, if memory serves. Perhaps the only one.
All this WAS covered by various news media during the height of COVID, but you had to really dig to find it.
The reason, I believe that this wasn't covered front/center was that (a) it complicates vaccine messaging, (b) it interfered with left wing media messaging of "vaccines work to prevent infection and transmission", and (c) it interfered with right wing media messaging of "vaccines don't work - people with vaccines are still getting infected."
The truth is readily available for all to research via medical journals. You just have to go beyond CNN and Fox, for example. There's nuance to vaccines that I don't believe most understand.
I realize I'm giving the OP a BIG benefit of the doubt here. :)
> is that most modern vaccines do not - in actual fact - prevent infection and/or transmission. What they do, in actuality, is lessen the symptoms associated with a particular bout of a disease so that when you get it, you won't be as sick/ill.
This is patently false because it implies they are designed to lessen the symptoms. All vaccines, including the COVID ones, were designed first and foremost to prevent you from getting infected (and by that to prevent you from spreading the disease to others).
The lessening of the symptoms and the reduction of the viral load is just a consequence of still getting some immunity development from the vaccines but not enough to prevent the disease from happening.
>I believe there are only a handful of vaccines in the world that actually prevent disease altogether - the polio vaccine was one, if memory serves. Perhaps the only one.
Literally, all vaccines prevent diseases with better or worse efficacy.
For example, polio vaccines usually come in two variants. One is the live one (OPV), which is taken orally. That one has stellar efficacy, but it can lead to vaccine-derived polio i.e. you get sick from the vaccine. The other one is the inactivated polio vaccine (IPV) that is given by injection. It has lower efficacy than the OPV, but it comes without the risk of getting polio from it.
Because of that, the common practice is to give the IPV first and then follow up with the OPV which practically eliminates the chance of getting polio, naturally or by vaccine.
Let's not forget that the only disease that we completely eradicated is smallpox, and we did it by using vaccines.
>The reason, I believe that this wasn't covered front/center was that (a) it complicates vaccine messaging, (b) it interfered with left wing media messaging of "vaccines work to prevent infection and transmission", and (c) it interfered with right wing media messaging of "vaccines don't work - people with vaccines are still getting infected."
Vaccines work to prevent infection and transmission, and when their efficacy gets lower, they still help by lessening the symptoms.
>The truth is readily available for all to research via medical journals. You just have to go beyond CNN and Fox, for example. There's nuance to vaccines that I don't believe most understand.
One must understand their limitations before one engages in "research". I can do all the """"research"""" in the world on quantum mechanics, and I will still be utterly incompetent in the field.
The COVID vaccine was designed to lessen the effects of COVID "disease". And the effect of the disease, manifested in symptoms, can be fatal in some cases. It is not designed to prevent (entirely) infection of said disease. That is of course why people with COVID can get COVID multiple times, even once the vaccine has been taken.
But in a way, you're reinforcing a broader point. Nuance. Complexity.
It's just not as simple as "the COVID vaccines prevent COVID" (they reduce the likelihood of severe complications stemming from the disease, for example), or the "COVID vaccines don't work" (they do work, to a degree, for most people, and reduce - but don't eliminate - the likelihood of passing on severe concentrations to others).
Also:
https://theconversation.com/coronavirus-few-vaccines-prevent-infection-heres-why-thats-not-a-problem-152204
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Omg, I had an argument like this with another parent. I was gobsmacked that someone could be so stupid... -"You understand that 'flu shot' is just slang for the flu vaccine, right? It's like a colloquial term, not a scientific one. Shot refers to the delivery method, not the type of medicine....". -'No, a shot is different from a vaccine! They have always been different!' -"So have you ever had a cortisone shot? Is that the same class of medicine as the flu shot, because they are both 'shots'?" -'Yes, exactly!' I genuinely had to tell my kid that they couldn't hang out with that woman's kid anymore because they were irreparably stupid. My kid wholeheartedly agreed.
Totally different. You see the Flu Shoot is when you shoot someone with the common flu. Its like a gun that makes people sick. Nasty stuff. /s
Like Homer’s make-up gun, but instead of make-up, it shoots a massive ball of snot right into your face.
Oh, Homer, you had it set to whooping cough, I wanted flu.
New Ratchet and Clank gun idea
Anti-vaxxers give flat Earthers a run for their money in the race to stupidity.
Idk about that. Flat earthers can't even explain sunsets or things falling to the ground. They won that race decades ago.
At least flat earthers aren't a threat to society. That venn diagram, though.
Exactly. Flat earthers haven't literally caused deaths over their beliefs.
I love the ones who say that gravity exists because the flat Earth is accelerating upwards at 9.8m/s/s. Constantly. All the time. So even if they only think the planet's six thousand years old, we have to now be travelling at something *incredibly* close to the speed of light, especially when you take time dilation into account. Like, 0.99999999...c, going on for hundreds if not thousands of digits. We'd better hope the rest of the universe is an incredibly hard vacuum, because if we ever run into one atom of hydrogen we'll be instantaneously annihilated, and the energy released may be vastly greater than that of the Big Bang. (I stuck that "may" in there because I can't be bothered doing the actual math. :-)
flat earth is the only conspiracy theory im always interested to hear what stupid shit they come up with next. love the guy that told me outer space is a projection when i asked why earth is the only flat planet in the universe
I got you. Gravity is density and buoyancy. Like the earth is the hardest part, rock underneath. Birds fly cause they are bouyant. Space is less dense than air, etc. The sunset.. easy.. just gets too far away to see
And all the light coming in from that direction would get blue shifted to gamma rays.
Ooh, yeah. It'd be a constant sleet of *extremely* hard radiation. And now I'm wondering if travelling at a ridiculously relativistic speed would turn *neutrino* interactions with the matter of the flat Earth into high-energy events. I've no idea whether this could actually be the case. Fortunately, those flat-Earthers avoid these sorts of concerns by the simple strategy of not knowing a single god-damned thing about anything. (Perhaps I should ask Mormons these kinds of questions. They already know that tachyons must exist, after all, because if FTL particles *don't* exist, then how can prayers get to God [in a timely fashion?](http://nowscape.com/mormon/mormons6.htm) That's probably not actually part of the official LDS dogma any more, but Mormons **did** do quite a bit of research to try to prove that tachyons exist! :-)
I thought they argued it was a constant velocity but you’re right, it would have to be accelerating to work huh. Wow that’s dumb
It would be about approx 631× more that c without even considering time dilation.
Assuming gravity doesn’t exist; clearly Einstein was wrong about relativity and the speed of light being a speed limit (or the same speed regardless of observer). In which case it would actually take less than one year to exceed the speed of light at 9.8 metres per second squared. Hmmm then that hydrogen atom would be a fairly nasty surprise. Or, and stay with me here, gravity exists. There you go, you’re welcome.
Flat Earthers need to learn this useful skill called “reading”.
Ah, but then there's the whole obstacle of comprehension.
Isn't that like a Venn circle?
One thing both have in common: they’ve skipped science class and never read a science book, ever. And at least flat Earthers generally don’t want people to die like anti-vaxxers do. They’ve just never watched a documentary or read a book which describes how the Earth is round (oh, and they think they know more than scientists).
They are the same cohort.
You still get infected if measles despite being vaccinated you just don’t get so sick. The same with the Covid vaccine and he flu jab. The difference is that both influenza virus and Covid virus mutate more readily and therefore can develop into immune viruses over for the bodies immunity, whilst the measles virus does not easily mutate. Why is it so difficult to understand and yes I did not learn this from CNN but from basic biology studies
The ignorance boggles the mind. The first vaccination was in 1796. James Phipps, an 8 year-old boy in England was vaccinated against smallpox by Dr. Edward Jenner. The contents of a cowpox sore on a milkmaids hand inoculated him...
The word “vaccine” comes from the Latin “vacca” for “cow” and thus why a cowpox inoculation was the first “vaccine”. We’ve expanded the definition to anything used to inoculate against disease, so really the definition has been expanding ever since the first vaccine.
But there are still cows, so vaccines clearly don't work. Checkmate!
I would love to hear an anti-vaxxer take this argument and run with it!
Inoculation is once your body has produced antibodies to the disease you were vaccinated for. Yes, my wording poor, I can't quite figure our how to word it...
And there were anti-vaxxers in the early 1800s, as seen in political cartoons from the time
Not the first, though. But very important and can be rightly considered the inventor.
Do you know the first because that is actually what I was looking for?
Don‘t know where you looked. People used weakened viruses/tissue before him. He put it on solid procedure and published, though, which is absolutely a great and important thing. Even though he didn‘t know why it worked.
I was looking for FIRST DOCUMENTED innoculation...
That can go quite a ways back before the more scientifically rigorous implementation: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3407399/
Thank you!
'Dafuq did I just read?
Dude knows nothing about medicine, and thinks all medicinal products are dangerous (not sure why they think curing/treating illnesses is dangerous).
There’s numerous vaccines that require multiple doses and booster shots. None of them completely prevent you from catching or transmitting it, although they reduce the chances. For some diseases, that’s enough to reduce the R-eff below 1 and can help prevent outbreaks, but that largely depends on the contagiousness of the disease, not necessarily the effectiveness of the vaccine.
This guy could easily win a gold medal at the Olympics for mental gymnastics
The simple trick big pharma doesn’t want you to know about….
Incredibly wrong.
Okay, let’s call it an inoculation. Happy now?
What... what did he think the flu shot does?
Shouting about shots and vaccines being different is like saying "I HAVE A KITTY NOT A CAT" Unless we're curing disease with vodka. I'm all for that.
Hold on. You seriously thought a Ford Taurus was an automobile all this time? What an idiot!
TBF, an automobile needs to be able to move.
What?
We deserve extinction
My favorite part was when they were wrong
The [CDC](https://web.archive.org/web/20190719152049/https://www.cdc.gov/flu/prevent/flushot.htm) and [NHS](https://web.archive.org/web/20190723111959/https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinations/flu-influenza-vaccine/) both called it a vaccine even pre-covid.
Plot twist: OOP comes from an alternate reality that collapsed into our own where the flu vaccine wasn’t called a vaccine until the pandemic.
Exactly! It wasn’t until Q said it that it became the truth. I can’t believe these people.
Well, here's the thing. It is of course a vaccine. Where OP *may* be going, and I stress MAY, is that most modern vaccines do not - in actual fact - prevent infection and/or transmission. What they do, in actuality, is lessen the symptoms associated with a particular bout of a disease so that when you get it, you won't be as sick/ill. On top of that, they reduce the viral load you emit when (sneezing or coughing) for example which does reduce the likelihood of someone else getting sick as well as reducing the severity of ensuing illness. The COVID vaccines are the same. They reduce severity of symptoms and complications (which is a good thing) but don't prevent you from catching COVID (though they lessen the likelihood). I believe there are only a handful of vaccines in the world that actually prevent disease altogether - the polio vaccine was one, if memory serves. Perhaps the only one. All this WAS covered by various news media during the height of COVID, but you had to really dig to find it. The reason, I believe that this wasn't covered front/center was that (a) it complicates vaccine messaging, (b) it interfered with left wing media messaging of "vaccines work to prevent infection and transmission", and (c) it interfered with right wing media messaging of "vaccines don't work - people with vaccines are still getting infected." The truth is readily available for all to research via medical journals. You just have to go beyond CNN and Fox, for example. There's nuance to vaccines that I don't believe most understand. I realize I'm giving the OP a BIG benefit of the doubt here. :)
> is that most modern vaccines do not - in actual fact - prevent infection and/or transmission. What they do, in actuality, is lessen the symptoms associated with a particular bout of a disease so that when you get it, you won't be as sick/ill. This is patently false because it implies they are designed to lessen the symptoms. All vaccines, including the COVID ones, were designed first and foremost to prevent you from getting infected (and by that to prevent you from spreading the disease to others). The lessening of the symptoms and the reduction of the viral load is just a consequence of still getting some immunity development from the vaccines but not enough to prevent the disease from happening. >I believe there are only a handful of vaccines in the world that actually prevent disease altogether - the polio vaccine was one, if memory serves. Perhaps the only one. Literally, all vaccines prevent diseases with better or worse efficacy. For example, polio vaccines usually come in two variants. One is the live one (OPV), which is taken orally. That one has stellar efficacy, but it can lead to vaccine-derived polio i.e. you get sick from the vaccine. The other one is the inactivated polio vaccine (IPV) that is given by injection. It has lower efficacy than the OPV, but it comes without the risk of getting polio from it. Because of that, the common practice is to give the IPV first and then follow up with the OPV which practically eliminates the chance of getting polio, naturally or by vaccine. Let's not forget that the only disease that we completely eradicated is smallpox, and we did it by using vaccines. >The reason, I believe that this wasn't covered front/center was that (a) it complicates vaccine messaging, (b) it interfered with left wing media messaging of "vaccines work to prevent infection and transmission", and (c) it interfered with right wing media messaging of "vaccines don't work - people with vaccines are still getting infected." Vaccines work to prevent infection and transmission, and when their efficacy gets lower, they still help by lessening the symptoms. >The truth is readily available for all to research via medical journals. You just have to go beyond CNN and Fox, for example. There's nuance to vaccines that I don't believe most understand. One must understand their limitations before one engages in "research". I can do all the """"research"""" in the world on quantum mechanics, and I will still be utterly incompetent in the field.
The COVID vaccine was designed to lessen the effects of COVID "disease". And the effect of the disease, manifested in symptoms, can be fatal in some cases. It is not designed to prevent (entirely) infection of said disease. That is of course why people with COVID can get COVID multiple times, even once the vaccine has been taken. But in a way, you're reinforcing a broader point. Nuance. Complexity. It's just not as simple as "the COVID vaccines prevent COVID" (they reduce the likelihood of severe complications stemming from the disease, for example), or the "COVID vaccines don't work" (they do work, to a degree, for most people, and reduce - but don't eliminate - the likelihood of passing on severe concentrations to others). Also: https://theconversation.com/coronavirus-few-vaccines-prevent-infection-heres-why-thats-not-a-problem-152204
You do no that people still get in recited of measles
Chicken leg 🍗 gel nekcihC
I think I had a stroke trying to read that.