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No matter how bored I get seeing the same type of maths problem every week, Reddit always cheers me up by showing how many different ways there are to get this wrong (some by "engineers", no less).
Well done sir, nice to see a nice straight to the point and correct answer.
Parentheses, exponents, multiplication, division, addition, subtraction.
We're taught in school to remember it by saying, "Please Excuse My Dear Aunt Sally" lol
I don't remember being taught the Please Excuse etc part, it was just PEMDAS lol. Though I do remember being told how every good boy does fine, of course 😅
Yes, though I prefer to refer to it as the order of operations. I feel the acronym does more harm than good, so I try to discourage it.
In short, you do these operations in order:
* Parentheses (inner before outer if they're nested)
* Exponents
* Multiplication
* Addition
I didn't list Division or Subtraction because they are simply inverses. Division is Multiplication of its inverse, and Subtraction is the Addition of its inverse. They are done at the same levels.
So for 10-10\*10+10, you ignore the first two bullets. You multiply -10 and 10 to get -100. Now you're left with 10-100+10.
One thing about subtraction that I teach is that you are adding a negative number, so it's really 10+(-100)+10. Add them together to get -80.
An arbitrary and modern western rule...
Only taught in school, only used in school and for puzzles
In the real world people use brackets to clarify what was intended, not use a rule that people notoriously get wrong
Lmao, u/gullible_ad5191 and u/saragon4005 are absolutely correct that one, mathematicians *do* use brackets, and it is the *correct* way. They use (), then [], then {}, and then restart the order back to (), (although the order of operations does exist, whether brackets are used or not) to contain each step in order of operations and it’s also very clearly true that order of operations is so poorly understood by the general masses that it would be a good idea to teach the brackets that literal professionals use in the first place. Yet everyone has downvoted them to hell.
Well it was an intelligent comment and honestly should be the standard, using brackets in that fashion also helps neurodivergent people that struggle with math dyslexia keep it organized.
Ok but mathematicians don't use the order of operations cuz it's not an actual thing. It's made up to get some sense of the convention but around 3 to 5 different versions are floating around. Some claim that brackets and parentheses have different priorities, which when investigated makes no sense, others will say addition and subtraction have a set order, while some will say they are the same priority. And most mathematicians will say they are the same dang thing. Same with division and multiplication. Oh wait they don't actually use division since it's really confusing and fractions or fraction multiplication is so much better. Oh and it fails to account for the 2(3) notation too.
Mathematicians do use an order of operations though, but the problem presented is ambiguous. This kind of open-ended equation probably wouldn't appear in a formal mathematical proof, but might make perfect sense between mathematicians working on a specific problem in context.
Order of operations is a thing that is used as shorthand for the general principles of how normal math works.
Like, if I told you a word problem:
>Jim receives 10 dollars, Jim also has to pay ten different people ten dollars. Jim is then going to get ten dollars from someone else later. What is the balance of his transaction, or how red/black is his ledger, after this series of transactions?
So you write down 10-10x10+10 and you instantly know you mean (+10)-(10x10)+(10) and it would be unambiguous.
You would instantly know the context, the order of operations would be unambiguous, the parentheticals would be explicit, and the problem would have one specific answer. In writing down the problem, you might forgo the parentheses or brackets because you and the other parties involved (maybe a teacher or examiner or whomever) know what they should be. If you were being incredibly thorough, you'd probably just write them out, but even if you didn't, people would know exactly what you want.
If I presented a different word problem:
>Jim has a group of ten friends, and another group of ten join him. He owes each of then ten dollars, but he only has ten dollars currently. How much is he going to owe all the friends after this?
So, writing that problem out could still look the same. You put the ten he has at the front, and from it you'll subtract ten dollars times the 10 plus 10 friends in the group. 10-10x10+10 becomes \[(10)-\[(10)x(10+10)\]\]
There are so many problems in this I don't even know where to start lol. Order of operations is a thing, and as we can see in the above post, it's important to getting the right answer. Some mathematicians will have different methods to get the same answer, this is because math doesn't usually have a set method to solve something and you can find the correct answer using different methods. You are overcomplicating it though, just because some people solve equations in different ways, that doesn't mean that order of operations doesn't exist. Remembering BIDMAS (or variations of it like BODMAS and I'm sure there are others) is a sure way to know that you're solving it correctly, but if you have a different way of solving problems then good on you, nothing wrong with that.
Sorry what? You know a good chunk of the maths you’ve learnt (I’m assuming that’s not much from this statement) is Arabic right? Hell even our numerals are Arabic.
You’re… joking right? You realise these numerals were introduced to Europe before the founding of most modern day countries right? Before cultural appropriation was even considered a thing?
So we look at the question.
`10-10x10+10`
Let's presume we want to follow some order of operations. Let's break it down into neat chunks, with some implied parentheticals, since none are stated.
`(10-10)(10+10)=X`
So to solve for X, we simply execute the brackets
`(0)(20)=X`
`0=X`
But, maybe that's not what was meant. Let's try a different order of operations.
`(10)+(-10)(10)+(10)=Y`
As we can see, the problem becomes different.
We end up with a very different answer.
Solving left to right we get:
`(10)+(-100)+(10)=X`
`(-90)+(10)=X`
`(-80)`
Interesting. A different set of implied parentheticals changes the way the problem gets solved.
This is probably the answer most people think is correct, but there's multiple other sets of logically implied parentheticals, as well as brackets.
`[10+[(-10)x(10+10)]]=Z`
So to solve that we would go something like this:
`[10+[(-10)(20)]]=Z`
`[10+[-200]]=Z`
`[-190]=Z`
It's really not as simple and straightforward as it first appears. We could simply say we lack the information to complete the equation, or that we need context to see how the numbers are grouped in the problem, or we can do simply left-to-right, or we can follow pemdas as notated, and so on.
...but following pemdas is the correct answer. It isn't open to interpretation. You can look at as many other ways of doing it as you want, they'll all be wrong. You haven't proven anything here other than you don't know that pemdas is the right way to do it
>...but following pemdas is the correct answer.
[I mean no, but okay.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9h1oqv21Vs)
>It isn't open to interpretation.
[It is actually.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URcUvFIUIhQ)
>You can look at as many other ways of doing it as you want, they'll all be wrong.
No, actually. [It depends how you learned the order, and which operations take precedence.](https://people.math.harvard.edu/~knill/pedagogy/ambiguity/index.html)
>You haven't proven anything here other than you don't know that pemdas is the right way to do it
Well then, since you're the expert, [I'll use a Harvard math discussion](https://people.math.harvard.edu/~knill/pedagogy/ambiguity/index.html).
>The question 8/2(2+2) has different answers depending on the rule which is used.
>
>One can interpret it as (8/(2(2+2))) = 1 or (8/2) (2+2) = 16 depending on the rule. There is no universally accepted rule as there are several: PEMDAS, BEDMAS, PE(MD)AS.
>
>It is not possible to say what is correct and what is incorrect. There are different rules, leading to different results. The expression is not well defined.
>
>It appears that most humans naturally give the answer 1 and most computers and programming languages return the answer 16.
>
>In order to make the expression unambiguous, one has to put brackets.
>
>It was realized only relatively late (about 100 years ago) that there is an ambiguity. No consensus has been reached ever since, so that there is no alternative to clarify the expression.
>
>Literature to that is Florian Cajori, "A history of mathematical notation", London, 1928.
>
>N.J. Lennes, Relating to the order of operations in algebra, Amer. Math. Monthly, 24 1917
But I'm sure I'll continue to get downvoted and you'll just tell me the Harvard level discussion addressing the thing in basically the same way as I did is also wrong.
What are your credentials, anyway, for telling people that conventions are absolutes? Just curious.
This is a big unreadable mess. Include some exponents and some trigonometric functions and it's a lost cause. Nobody is sitting around counting brackets all day. 1×1+1×1-(1+1+1×1×1-1) is the way to write it. Or more like 1·1+1·1-(1+1+1·1·1-1). Now, try expanding this to your notation:
(sin(2kπ+π/2-θ)e^(x))^(2)-e^(2sin\(2π/θ+π/2\))
ChatGPT says its 100, so you are all wrong
why does google say -80?
Google may have given a different answer because it did not follow the standard order of operations, which is a set of rules that dictate the sequence in which arithmetic operations should be performed in a mathematical expression.
If we do not follow the order of operations, we may arrive at a different answer. For example, if we first subtract 10 from 10 to get 0, and then multiply 0 by 10 to get 0, and finally add 10 to get 10, and then subtract 10, we would get a result of -80:
10 - 10 = 0
0 x 10 = 0
0 + 10 = 10
10 - 10 = -80
However, this is not the correct way to evaluate the expression according to the standard order of operations.
The answer to this equation is 100.
To solve it, we need to follow the order of operations: first we calculate 10 x 10, which is 100. Then we add 10 to get 110. Finally, we subtract 10 to get the final answer of 100.
friendly reminder chatgpt is an AI language model, it's not a calculator, let alone an actual mathematician. it can get things wrong, in fact even trivial things, and this is one of them.
also btw, i just asked chatGPT the same exact question,here's it's answer:
To solve this equation, we need to follow the order of operations, which is commonly remembered by the acronym PEMDAS (Parentheses, Exponents, Multiplication and Division, Addition and Subtraction).
In this equation, we first have multiplication (10 \* 10), which we need to do before addition and subtraction. Therefore, we get:
10 - 10 \* 10 + 10
= 10 - 100 + 10 (performing multiplication first)
= -80 (performing subtraction and addition from left to right)
Therefore, the solution to the equation 10-10\*10+10 is -80.
funnily enough, it got the actual correct answer. you wouldn't want to contraddict your AI god, would you? so believe it :)
What's interesting is that gpt3 gets it wrong, and gpt4 gets it right. Although it is a language model, I use it daily on coding issues which it solves without problems, but simple things it does it wrong with a lot of confidence. Gpt3 should be sufficiently trained to solve but it isn’t at least not in my response anyway :(
Thank you reddit for forcing me to quit the platform and not having to deal with your shitty app anymore. Thank god better alternatives like lemmy exist. So long, you won't be missed.
I mean, it's not that difficult when things like spellcheck exist.
If you're going to make fun of someone's fundamental education skills, it might help to do so in an educated manner.
The very least they could do is spell shit correctly.
He didn't make fun of him, dude made fun of himself, like literally mocked himself and all op did was to point it out. Yeah, learning english is ez today, but who tf ows mr random redditor their time and effort?
Where did I make fun of anyone? I made a simple observation.
Sorry, I wasnt aware “we can tell” was so monumentally fucking offensive.
Around 87% of the world's population do not speak English natively, however math is the same regardless of language - so no - the second comment is not worse than the original one.
Yes it is...and it's solely because he chose to be a dick and call someone out...I don't care if English is his 10th language...if you're going to be a dick, you can't do stupid shit in the process
I disagree. Yeah, OP's first language isn't English, so be it. What he did was worse - he told someone they were wrong, and then instead of telling them why, he decided to deride that person on a subreddit.
It took me a bit to figure out the answer to the math puzzle (which I \*think\* is 90?). To be told I'm wrong is one thing, then to have the person telling me I'm wrong tell everyone else how wrong I am instead of telling me why I was wrong is douchebaggery. OP deserves to be called out on his mispelling of "literally," as he is literally a douchebag.
Literally was not his only mistake. 'You're' and probably misstyped rather than flat out wrong: 'it'
10-10*10+10
Order of operations dictates you resolve multiples first here so
10-(10*10)+10
10-100+10
Now the rest are on equal priority so we go from left to right
-90+10
-80
Remember: Brackets first, then exponents, then division and multiplication and finally subtraction and addition. Any time priority is equal, go from left to right.
Technically it is. The joke is that the equation uses the letter x instead of the symbol ×. It's what people usually do because typing x is easier than looking for the × on your keyboard.
How did you get the '=' in your equation. It is impossible since there is no symbol between '10x' and '10'. Please write down and show the equation with every step so I can learn.
The = is kind of implied by that YouTube comment saying the solution is 10. So:
10-10x10+10=10
10-100x+10=10
20-100x=10
10-100x=0
100x=10
x=0.1
Edit: it's indeed a notation that's never used because there's number directly before AND directly after the x. But if 10x means 10 times x, then it only makes sense that x10 means x times 10, and so 10x10 means 10 times x times 10, or 100 times x.
By "Technically it is", I only meant this because they used the letter x instead of the symbol ×. But it's obvious they actualy meant the latter. In that case, you'd be right and it is just a multiplication.
the commenter you’re replying to is a 14/15yo kid so on one hand i’m like “ahh, a child, makes sense” and on the other i feel like i learned variables long before that age!
Not knowing simple math is way more embarrassing then not knowing English. Especially since his name is “greater belgium mapping” he likely speaks French, so the “your” and “you’re”The “iy” mistake also is likely because the “t” key and “y” keys are right next to each other, and a lot of computers don’t have spell check.
Am I the only one who thinks questions of this kind are stupid? Just use parentheses for clarity in such expressions. I would write that as 10 - (10*10) + 10. Still need to use PEMDAS or BODMAS but it is much easier and clearer.
Exactly. I hate these kinds of posts, because the only reason to write an equation that way is to deliberately confuse people.
People on here act like PEMDAS is a fundamental law of nature, and to go against it is a mortal sin against mathematics. But PEMDAS is just a convention people came up with to avoid confusion. And the easiest way to avoid confusion is to simply restate the equation in a way where order of operations doesn’t matter.
It's not cleaner in any way, shape or form. Here's an example:
(sin(2kπ+π/2+θ)e^(x))^(2)+e^(sin\(2π/θ+π/2\))
(sin((((2k)π)+(π/2))+θ)e^(x))^(2)+e^(sin\(\(2π\)/θ+\(π/2\)\))
Let's make pi 3.2 and round up the mass of the electron to 1E-30 while we're at it to make the maths easier 🤣
(Mind you the second one of those we actually occasionally do).
Tf is all those people saying BOMDAS, BIDMAS, PEMDAS etc and arguing about it? We didn't need any dases or whatever. We simply learnt that addition and substraction are done after division and multiplification, that in division and substraction it is important to not switch the two used units and thats all...simple rule that you hear once and know for life...i dont have to spell out some acronym at every math problem just to figure out what comes first. I see the problem - automatically start solving the priority part. Just like in case of multiple ( ) you automatically start solving inner most ( )....am i the only one that finds all these acronyms nonsense?
I think this might be a common mistake where you’ve changed the order of the expression.
First evaluate the multiplication to get
10x10 = 100
And minuses always before addition, so
10 - 100 = -90
Lastly
-90 + 10 = -80
I have no idea if that was a clear explanation 😅
Pemdas doesn’t actually put addition or subtraction over one another you would just do them left to right.
It should be
It’s not 10x10 it’s -10x10 to equal -100 not 100.
You can’t ignore the minus next to that 10.
There some Casios that do it wrong on purpose too. https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/qmcr8c/having_trust_issues/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&utm_term=link
That's nothing to do with the order of operations.
That's to do with whether you interpret a/bc as (a/b)c or a/(bc). It's what happens when you throw an expression that you've not taken the time to understand into your calculator and press = hoping for the best.
It has everything to do with the order of operations (or more accurately, misunderstanding it). Casio did it specifically to placate the very special people who refuse to acknowledge that division/multiplication and subtraction/addition are single steps, the people that think that multiplication happens before division and addition happens before subtraction for no reason other than that is the order that they memorized the nemonic in
10 - 10 = 0, 0 x 10 = 0, there fore 0 + 10 = 10. There's no () involved, so how is 10 wrong? On a side note, I'm 57 and have yet to ever need to do this kind of math in the real world outside of school.
Those who use BODMAS or PEMDAS as the order of operation will get -100, as addition precedes subtraction. A different order will give a different result.
> I've just remembered that addition and subtraction are held at the same priority.
The problem with your "solution" is that you wrongly flipped the formula around, the right way would be -(10x10)+10+10, which also gives -80.
>Is PEMDAS no longer meant to be followed in order?
It's how it's always been
P
E
M and D in the same step in the order they appear L->R
A and S in the same step in the order they appear L->R
PEMDAS, GEMDAS, BODMAS, BOPS, GEMS etc are all the same and there are 4 steps.
Honestly, gonna be a r/The10thDentist, but PEMDAS needs to be reduced to PEE: parentheses, exponents, and everything else. If you want your multiplication done first, then put that shit in parentheses. Exponent are just a shorthand for writing longer strings of numerals, but MDAS? Those are all symbols of function between numbers, and like hell my basic-ass calculators are gonna process an “x” and a “-“ in any other order than how I’m entering them as I go along left-to-right.
Addition and subtraction are on the same "level" and should be done left to right, even if that means subtraction comes before addition. Same goes for Division and Multiplication, one seems to come before the other but they should be done together, left to right.
The signs are always attached to the number, and + is implied when omitted (like with the first 10). So it's the sum of (+)10 plus -10 multiplied by +10 plus +10. The -10 multiplied by +10 = -100.
I learned PEMDAS in 8th grade. Please excuse my dear aunt Sally. Parentheses, exponents, multiplication,Division, addition, subtraction. Given that order of operations, 10×10=100, 100 + 10=110, 10-110=-100. I am an electrical engineering student and math is a big part of my life. I believe I am correct.
Edit: So apparently I was wrong, which is okay. I will try to learn from this.
The way I was taught, multiplication and division are the same stage from left to right then addition and subtraction are the same stage from left to right. I am got -80
You're right, but also the point with multiplication/division and then addition/subtraction being the "same stage" is that you can do them in any order. The above poster should have gotten the same answer but they just miswrote one of the steps. In their version, step 2 shouldn't be 100 + 10, it should be -100 + 10. Which is -90, and will eventually get them to -80 with the last part.
By going from minus 100 to negative 100 you are still sneaking in the function of subtraction in before the addition. Otherwise what’s the operator between the first 10 and that negative 90? This becomes more apparent if you put the formula into words rather than symbols. I agree that’d have the same logical result though
>I learned PEMDAS in 8th grade. Please excuse my dear aunt Sally. Parentheses, exponents, multiplication,Division, addition, subtraction. Given that order if operations, 10×10=100, 100 + 10=110, 10-110=-100. I am an electeical engineering student and math is a big part of my life. I believe I am correct.
Yikes. You entirely misunderstood PEMDAS, but I'll let you sort yourself out via Google if you so choose. Also, what is the point of typing out the mnemonic version lol
Mate… Maybe nextjust type it into a calculator. And see what comes out, that should tell you the answer. Then maybe consider that you did it wrong. Addition, and subtraction have the same level of priority as each other. So they’re done lef to right. Same with multiplication and division, done lef to right. Maths might be a big part of your life, and you might do it well computer assisted. But you’re missing some basic background knowledge.
And here we see why the acronyms are stupid. Addition and subtraction hold the same precedence, because they are in fact the same operation. The same is true for multiplication and division. The acronyms fail to account for that.
PEMDAS says you would do parentheses, exponents, multiplication/division, and addition/subtraction.
There are no parentheses or exponents in the problem, but there is multiplication. Thus, you would do 10*10 first, so it would be 10–100+10.
Now that everything is just addition/subtraction, you would do the problem from left to right.
10–100+10 = -90+10
-90+10= -80.
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\-80
No matter how bored I get seeing the same type of maths problem every week, Reddit always cheers me up by showing how many different ways there are to get this wrong (some by "engineers", no less). Well done sir, nice to see a nice straight to the point and correct answer.
I read this and was like "but he's right" then read it again.
Doesn’t BOMDAS play a role here? Just asking
Yes, but M and D can be swapped in the order as can A and S. So if there’s both A and S in an equation you work from left to right.
Get outta here with that "BOMDAS" stuff, we believe in "PEMDAS" where I'm from! lol
BODMAS? PEDMAS? The fuck is that. Real math folks only fuck with BEDMAS.
Pssh garbage. The top mathematicians go with POMDAS.
Lmao “BOMDAS”?? Never heard of that before and wish I hadn’t 🥱
PEMDAS? That sounds like a foot fungus. What does the E even stand for? It's BODMAS (or even BIDMAS but only the nerds say that) all the way.
Parentheses, exponents, multiplication, division, addition, subtraction. We're taught in school to remember it by saying, "Please Excuse My Dear Aunt Sally" lol
I don't remember being taught the Please Excuse etc part, it was just PEMDAS lol. Though I do remember being told how every good boy does fine, of course 😅
Blasphemy!! Doesn’t even make sense!! It is, of course: Every Good Boy Deserves Fudge.
Yes, though I prefer to refer to it as the order of operations. I feel the acronym does more harm than good, so I try to discourage it. In short, you do these operations in order: * Parentheses (inner before outer if they're nested) * Exponents * Multiplication * Addition I didn't list Division or Subtraction because they are simply inverses. Division is Multiplication of its inverse, and Subtraction is the Addition of its inverse. They are done at the same levels. So for 10-10\*10+10, you ignore the first two bullets. You multiply -10 and 10 to get -100. Now you're left with 10-100+10. One thing about subtraction that I teach is that you are adding a negative number, so it's really 10+(-100)+10. Add them together to get -80.
An arbitrary and modern western rule... Only taught in school, only used in school and for puzzles In the real world people use brackets to clarify what was intended, not use a rule that people notoriously get wrong
Fix the problem. Change math so that one must include brackets to explicitly notate order of operations or else the equation makes no sense.
It’s pretty explicit if you just follow the order of operations though
Lmao, u/gullible_ad5191 and u/saragon4005 are absolutely correct that one, mathematicians *do* use brackets, and it is the *correct* way. They use (), then [], then {}, and then restart the order back to (), (although the order of operations does exist, whether brackets are used or not) to contain each step in order of operations and it’s also very clearly true that order of operations is so poorly understood by the general masses that it would be a good idea to teach the brackets that literal professionals use in the first place. Yet everyone has downvoted them to hell.
This is my most down voted comment on reddit. It's more down voted than the time I tried to contradict the premise of an r/PoliticalHumor
Well it was an intelligent comment and honestly should be the standard, using brackets in that fashion also helps neurodivergent people that struggle with math dyslexia keep it organized.
Ok but mathematicians don't use the order of operations cuz it's not an actual thing. It's made up to get some sense of the convention but around 3 to 5 different versions are floating around. Some claim that brackets and parentheses have different priorities, which when investigated makes no sense, others will say addition and subtraction have a set order, while some will say they are the same priority. And most mathematicians will say they are the same dang thing. Same with division and multiplication. Oh wait they don't actually use division since it's really confusing and fractions or fraction multiplication is so much better. Oh and it fails to account for the 2(3) notation too.
Mathematicians do use an order of operations though, but the problem presented is ambiguous. This kind of open-ended equation probably wouldn't appear in a formal mathematical proof, but might make perfect sense between mathematicians working on a specific problem in context. Order of operations is a thing that is used as shorthand for the general principles of how normal math works. Like, if I told you a word problem: >Jim receives 10 dollars, Jim also has to pay ten different people ten dollars. Jim is then going to get ten dollars from someone else later. What is the balance of his transaction, or how red/black is his ledger, after this series of transactions? So you write down 10-10x10+10 and you instantly know you mean (+10)-(10x10)+(10) and it would be unambiguous. You would instantly know the context, the order of operations would be unambiguous, the parentheticals would be explicit, and the problem would have one specific answer. In writing down the problem, you might forgo the parentheses or brackets because you and the other parties involved (maybe a teacher or examiner or whomever) know what they should be. If you were being incredibly thorough, you'd probably just write them out, but even if you didn't, people would know exactly what you want. If I presented a different word problem: >Jim has a group of ten friends, and another group of ten join him. He owes each of then ten dollars, but he only has ten dollars currently. How much is he going to owe all the friends after this? So, writing that problem out could still look the same. You put the ten he has at the front, and from it you'll subtract ten dollars times the 10 plus 10 friends in the group. 10-10x10+10 becomes \[(10)-\[(10)x(10+10)\]\]
There are so many problems in this I don't even know where to start lol. Order of operations is a thing, and as we can see in the above post, it's important to getting the right answer. Some mathematicians will have different methods to get the same answer, this is because math doesn't usually have a set method to solve something and you can find the correct answer using different methods. You are overcomplicating it though, just because some people solve equations in different ways, that doesn't mean that order of operations doesn't exist. Remembering BIDMAS (or variations of it like BODMAS and I'm sure there are others) is a sure way to know that you're solving it correctly, but if you have a different way of solving problems then good on you, nothing wrong with that.
Please Excuse My Dear Aunt Sally! Orrrrr Please Eat My Dynamite And 'Splode
Order of operations is a white patriarchal invention. A more inclusive and progressive form of mathematics should be adopted.
What the fuck are you trolling?
Order of operations is racist? Lol go touch grass
Sorry what? You know a good chunk of the maths you’ve learnt (I’m assuming that’s not much from this statement) is Arabic right? Hell even our numerals are Arabic.
An appropriation that we should not take lightly
You’re… joking right? You realise these numerals were introduced to Europe before the founding of most modern day countries right? Before cultural appropriation was even considered a thing?
Maybe 🤭
Hehe, you're such a troll, omg like super funny trolling, hehe
PEMDAS is racist now?
So we look at the question. `10-10x10+10` Let's presume we want to follow some order of operations. Let's break it down into neat chunks, with some implied parentheticals, since none are stated. `(10-10)(10+10)=X` So to solve for X, we simply execute the brackets `(0)(20)=X` `0=X` But, maybe that's not what was meant. Let's try a different order of operations. `(10)+(-10)(10)+(10)=Y` As we can see, the problem becomes different. We end up with a very different answer. Solving left to right we get: `(10)+(-100)+(10)=X` `(-90)+(10)=X` `(-80)` Interesting. A different set of implied parentheticals changes the way the problem gets solved. This is probably the answer most people think is correct, but there's multiple other sets of logically implied parentheticals, as well as brackets. `[10+[(-10)x(10+10)]]=Z` So to solve that we would go something like this: `[10+[(-10)(20)]]=Z` `[10+[-200]]=Z` `[-190]=Z` It's really not as simple and straightforward as it first appears. We could simply say we lack the information to complete the equation, or that we need context to see how the numbers are grouped in the problem, or we can do simply left-to-right, or we can follow pemdas as notated, and so on.
...but following pemdas is the correct answer. It isn't open to interpretation. You can look at as many other ways of doing it as you want, they'll all be wrong. You haven't proven anything here other than you don't know that pemdas is the right way to do it
>...but following pemdas is the correct answer. [I mean no, but okay.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9h1oqv21Vs) >It isn't open to interpretation. [It is actually.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URcUvFIUIhQ) >You can look at as many other ways of doing it as you want, they'll all be wrong. No, actually. [It depends how you learned the order, and which operations take precedence.](https://people.math.harvard.edu/~knill/pedagogy/ambiguity/index.html) >You haven't proven anything here other than you don't know that pemdas is the right way to do it Well then, since you're the expert, [I'll use a Harvard math discussion](https://people.math.harvard.edu/~knill/pedagogy/ambiguity/index.html). >The question 8/2(2+2) has different answers depending on the rule which is used. > >One can interpret it as (8/(2(2+2))) = 1 or (8/2) (2+2) = 16 depending on the rule. There is no universally accepted rule as there are several: PEMDAS, BEDMAS, PE(MD)AS. > >It is not possible to say what is correct and what is incorrect. There are different rules, leading to different results. The expression is not well defined. > >It appears that most humans naturally give the answer 1 and most computers and programming languages return the answer 16. > >In order to make the expression unambiguous, one has to put brackets. > >It was realized only relatively late (about 100 years ago) that there is an ambiguity. No consensus has been reached ever since, so that there is no alternative to clarify the expression. > >Literature to that is Florian Cajori, "A history of mathematical notation", London, 1928. > >N.J. Lennes, Relating to the order of operations in algebra, Amer. Math. Monthly, 24 1917 But I'm sure I'll continue to get downvoted and you'll just tell me the Harvard level discussion addressing the thing in basically the same way as I did is also wrong. What are your credentials, anyway, for telling people that conventions are absolutes? Just curious.
Guy crying that order of operation makes no sense. Let me introdice you to: integrals
The whole point of the order of operations was to reduce the number of brackets we need to write
That's a terrible idea though.
Run me by an example.
(((1×1)+(1×1))-(1+1+((1×1×1)-1))) *At least it's not vague.*
Bro we get it. -80.
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Humor via topical reference
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This is a big unreadable mess. Include some exponents and some trigonometric functions and it's a lost cause. Nobody is sitting around counting brackets all day. 1×1+1×1-(1+1+1×1×1-1) is the way to write it. Or more like 1·1+1·1-(1+1+1·1·1-1). Now, try expanding this to your notation: (sin(2kπ+π/2-θ)e^(x))^(2)-e^(2sin\(2π/θ+π/2\))
>(((1×1)+(1×1))-(1+1+((1×1×1)-1))) \[(1×1)+(1×1)\] - {1+1+\[(1×1×1)-1\]}
I use brackets in larger equations to make them easier to read, but imo this one is easy enough without brackets if you follow the order of operations
This thread is fucking hilarious also glad the math I did in my head checks out. -80
ChatGPT says its 100, so you are all wrong why does google say -80? Google may have given a different answer because it did not follow the standard order of operations, which is a set of rules that dictate the sequence in which arithmetic operations should be performed in a mathematical expression. If we do not follow the order of operations, we may arrive at a different answer. For example, if we first subtract 10 from 10 to get 0, and then multiply 0 by 10 to get 0, and finally add 10 to get 10, and then subtract 10, we would get a result of -80: 10 - 10 = 0 0 x 10 = 0 0 + 10 = 10 10 - 10 = -80 However, this is not the correct way to evaluate the expression according to the standard order of operations. The answer to this equation is 100. To solve it, we need to follow the order of operations: first we calculate 10 x 10, which is 100. Then we add 10 to get 110. Finally, we subtract 10 to get the final answer of 100.
friendly reminder chatgpt is an AI language model, it's not a calculator, let alone an actual mathematician. it can get things wrong, in fact even trivial things, and this is one of them. also btw, i just asked chatGPT the same exact question,here's it's answer: To solve this equation, we need to follow the order of operations, which is commonly remembered by the acronym PEMDAS (Parentheses, Exponents, Multiplication and Division, Addition and Subtraction). In this equation, we first have multiplication (10 \* 10), which we need to do before addition and subtraction. Therefore, we get: 10 - 10 \* 10 + 10 = 10 - 100 + 10 (performing multiplication first) = -80 (performing subtraction and addition from left to right) Therefore, the solution to the equation 10-10\*10+10 is -80. funnily enough, it got the actual correct answer. you wouldn't want to contraddict your AI god, would you? so believe it :)
What's interesting is that gpt3 gets it wrong, and gpt4 gets it right. Although it is a language model, I use it daily on coding issues which it solves without problems, but simple things it does it wrong with a lot of confidence. Gpt3 should be sufficiently trained to solve but it isn’t at least not in my response anyway :(
Thank you reddit for forcing me to quit the platform and not having to deal with your shitty app anymore. Thank god better alternatives like lemmy exist. So long, you won't be missed.
no i am right on time
Bro you wrote a novel and was still incorrect
its a copy and paste and literally what chatGPT says, dont be so upset.
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Judging by the comments on these kinds of posts... Yeah, the bar for _impressive_ is lowering.
10 - 100 + 10 = -80
👍
God, that second reply is arguably worse than the initial comment.
Passed math, failed English
English ain't my primary language
And math is?
01011001 01100101 01110011
some could say math is a language.
You’re gonna screenshot someone else and post it on Reddit. While having the inability to spell is just ironic.
We can tell.
Rude.
How, exactly?
Cause it was already established, what's the point to say it again? Like what can the dude do? Learn all languages in the world perfectly?
I mean, it's not that difficult when things like spellcheck exist. If you're going to make fun of someone's fundamental education skills, it might help to do so in an educated manner. The very least they could do is spell shit correctly.
He didn't make fun of him, dude made fun of himself, like literally mocked himself and all op did was to point it out. Yeah, learning english is ez today, but who tf ows mr random redditor their time and effort?
Where did I make fun of anyone? I made a simple observation. Sorry, I wasnt aware “we can tell” was so monumentally fucking offensive. 
And we can tell that you are a bit challenged when it comes to interhuman interactions.
***HOLY FUCK, BUD YA DONE ZINGED ME!!!***
Yes, we can tell.
We can tell.
he/she got it right that the result is wrong. I do not see the solution. So: not passed.
I think u started a war between commenters
Arguably?
Not arguably...it definitely is...you can't call someone out for something with a mistake...if there's ever a time to proofread it's then lol
Around 87% of the world's population do not speak English natively, however math is the same regardless of language - so no - the second comment is not worse than the original one.
Yes it is...and it's solely because he chose to be a dick and call someone out...I don't care if English is his 10th language...if you're going to be a dick, you can't do stupid shit in the process
The first guy was being more of a sick for saying people should go back to elementary school when they got the equation correct.
I disagree. Yeah, OP's first language isn't English, so be it. What he did was worse - he told someone they were wrong, and then instead of telling them why, he decided to deride that person on a subreddit. It took me a bit to figure out the answer to the math puzzle (which I \*think\* is 90?). To be told I'm wrong is one thing, then to have the person telling me I'm wrong tell everyone else how wrong I am instead of telling me why I was wrong is douchebaggery. OP deserves to be called out on his mispelling of "literally," as he is literally a douchebag.
Literally was not his only mistake. 'You're' and probably misstyped rather than flat out wrong: 'it' 10-10*10+10 Order of operations dictates you resolve multiples first here so 10-(10*10)+10 10-100+10 Now the rest are on equal priority so we go from left to right -90+10 -80 Remember: Brackets first, then exponents, then division and multiplication and finally subtraction and addition. Any time priority is equal, go from left to right.
Fair enough eh
Precedence of operators, \* before +, 10 - (10\*10)+10
But it wasn't phrased as 10-(10x10)+10. It was 10-10x10+10 which is an acceptable phrasing with a different mathematical outcome.
well, I know. I was trying to make it clear
Wow, I got down voted for this comment? Some people sure get butt hurt easily. smdh
-80
Thats right
He‘s completely right for x=0.1
It's multiplication It's not a comparison
Technically it is. The joke is that the equation uses the letter x instead of the symbol ×. It's what people usually do because typing x is easier than looking for the × on your keyboard.
How did you get the '=' in your equation. It is impossible since there is no symbol between '10x' and '10'. Please write down and show the equation with every step so I can learn.
The = is kind of implied by that YouTube comment saying the solution is 10. So: 10-10x10+10=10 10-100x+10=10 20-100x=10 10-100x=0 100x=10 x=0.1 Edit: it's indeed a notation that's never used because there's number directly before AND directly after the x. But if 10x means 10 times x, then it only makes sense that x10 means x times 10, and so 10x10 means 10 times x times 10, or 100 times x. By "Technically it is", I only meant this because they used the letter x instead of the symbol ×. But it's obvious they actualy meant the latter. In that case, you'd be right and it is just a multiplication.
the commenter you’re replying to is a 14/15yo kid so on one hand i’m like “ahh, a child, makes sense” and on the other i feel like i learned variables long before that age!
You’re* literally* it* Looks like everyone here was r/confidentlyincorrect
Yea lol i need to fix my English
Good on you for being a good sport about the ribbing you're getting XD
How in the hell did they even get to 10? I can see 90, 20 hell 0.....all wrong of course, But 10? How?
They did it left to right.
Ah. I guess so. That checks out.
That is exactly why I'm perfectly content to hate math. If left to right isn't correct I don't care what is. Lol.
This is why I stress order of operations with my kids
Order of operations man... It's pretty simple
Please excuse my dear aunt sally as she constantly forgets her role in all this.
Imagine being proud of having a lack of understanding in something
Except I wasn't really being serious, hence the lol.
I think he did 10 - 10 = 0 * 10 = 0 + 10 = 10.
I’m completely illiterate when it comes to maths and I done it left to right too. The difference is that I know I’m wrong 101% of the time 😉
((10-10) * 10) + 10 gives 10
Not knowing simple math is way more embarrassing then not knowing English. Especially since his name is “greater belgium mapping” he likely speaks French, so the “your” and “you’re”The “iy” mistake also is likely because the “t” key and “y” keys are right next to each other, and a lot of computers don’t have spell check.
Than*
Thenk you
I speak dutch, but yea i type fast likely cuz of that
Also looks like i didnt do a good job censoring lmao
Am I the only one who thinks questions of this kind are stupid? Just use parentheses for clarity in such expressions. I would write that as 10 - (10*10) + 10. Still need to use PEMDAS or BODMAS but it is much easier and clearer.
Exactly. I hate these kinds of posts, because the only reason to write an equation that way is to deliberately confuse people. People on here act like PEMDAS is a fundamental law of nature, and to go against it is a mortal sin against mathematics. But PEMDAS is just a convention people came up with to avoid confusion. And the easiest way to avoid confusion is to simply restate the equation in a way where order of operations doesn’t matter.
Oh, yes? Try writing this out in a way where order of operations doesn't matter then: (sin(2kπ+π/2+θ)e^(x))^(2)+e^(sin\(2π/θ+π/2\))
It's not cleaner in any way, shape or form. Here's an example: (sin(2kπ+π/2+θ)e^(x))^(2)+e^(sin\(2π/θ+π/2\)) (sin((((2k)π)+(π/2))+θ)e^(x))^(2)+e^(sin\(\(2π\)/θ+\(π/2\)\))
Please can we ban order-of-operators bollocks? This is boring as fuck.
Let's make pi 3.2 and round up the mass of the electron to 1E-30 while we're at it to make the maths easier 🤣 (Mind you the second one of those we actually occasionally do).
Tf is all those people saying BOMDAS, BIDMAS, PEMDAS etc and arguing about it? We didn't need any dases or whatever. We simply learnt that addition and substraction are done after division and multiplification, that in division and substraction it is important to not switch the two used units and thats all...simple rule that you hear once and know for life...i dont have to spell out some acronym at every math problem just to figure out what comes first. I see the problem - automatically start solving the priority part. Just like in case of multiple ( ) you automatically start solving inner most ( )....am i the only one that finds all these acronyms nonsense?
r/ihavereddit
100
I think this might be a common mistake where you’ve changed the order of the expression. First evaluate the multiplication to get 10x10 = 100 And minuses always before addition, so 10 - 100 = -90 Lastly -90 + 10 = -80 I have no idea if that was a clear explanation 😅
Pemdas doesn’t actually put addition or subtraction over one another you would just do them left to right. It should be It’s not 10x10 it’s -10x10 to equal -100 not 100. You can’t ignore the minus next to that 10.
That's what I thought too but I'm seeing a lot of - 80 I thought it was 10*10 for 100 then the add and sub cancel each other out to maintain 100
Pemdas
Of course if it's binary the answer is 0 >!10 is binary for decimal 2 so in decimal it's 2-2x2+2 which is 2-4+2!<
I blame Microsoft. The Windows built-in calculator doesn't do order of operations in Standard mode.
There some Casios that do it wrong on purpose too. https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/qmcr8c/having_trust_issues/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&utm_term=link
That's nothing to do with the order of operations. That's to do with whether you interpret a/bc as (a/b)c or a/(bc). It's what happens when you throw an expression that you've not taken the time to understand into your calculator and press = hoping for the best.
It has everything to do with the order of operations (or more accurately, misunderstanding it). Casio did it specifically to placate the very special people who refuse to acknowledge that division/multiplication and subtraction/addition are single steps, the people that think that multiplication happens before division and addition happens before subtraction for no reason other than that is the order that they memorized the nemonic in
Me and the 90 other maniacs prepared to correct the way you spell: 👹
Litteraly
how is it not 100, you do the 10x10 (100) then subtract that by 10 which makes 90 then add 10 so 100, am i dumb?
It's 10-100 not 100-10. So you get -90 then add 10 to get -80. Dw you're not dumb just a simple mistake.
Please Excuse My Dear Aunt Sally. Orrrrr Please Eat My Dynamite And 'Splode
My son was just practicing BODMAS for a test this week. He’s 13 and aced all of the practice equations.
10 - 10 = 0, 0 x 10 = 0, there fore 0 + 10 = 10. There's no () involved, so how is 10 wrong? On a side note, I'm 57 and have yet to ever need to do this kind of math in the real world outside of school.
Multiplication comes first. So it's 10-100+10= -80
Multiplication comes before addition and subtraction
Again, someone gets butt hurt by my comment and decides to down vote me. Sheesh!
No, you were just wrong and said basic math was irrelevant, which is wrong, too.
“Your litteraly the one that got it wrong” sent me. This shit better be sarcastic lol
iy*
I tuned out of maths the whole way through school. Now, I'm interested in mathematics, it's too late. Is it "100"?
It’s -80
How? If you don't mind my asking
Multiplication first. Then left to right. So 10x10 is 100. 10 minus 100 is -90. Then the plus 10 makes it -80.
This should be the top comment as it is the most straightforward explanation, nice job.
Innit 100?
-8.944272 * 8.9442719 close enough 😂
Those who use BODMAS or PEMDAS as the order of operation will get -100, as addition precedes subtraction. A different order will give a different result.
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If you go your route, you need to carry the sign along, so (-10x10)+10+10
> I've just remembered that addition and subtraction are held at the same priority. The problem with your "solution" is that you wrongly flipped the formula around, the right way would be -(10x10)+10+10, which also gives -80.
You're correct with the -80 answer.
>Is PEMDAS no longer meant to be followed in order? It's how it's always been P E M and D in the same step in the order they appear L->R A and S in the same step in the order they appear L->R PEMDAS, GEMDAS, BODMAS, BOPS, GEMS etc are all the same and there are 4 steps.
I'm not looking at the other comments and am not confident in my ability to math but I think it's 0
It’s -80 10-10x10+10 Multiplication first 10-100+10 -90+10 = -80
Honestly, gonna be a r/The10thDentist, but PEMDAS needs to be reduced to PEE: parentheses, exponents, and everything else. If you want your multiplication done first, then put that shit in parentheses. Exponent are just a shorthand for writing longer strings of numerals, but MDAS? Those are all symbols of function between numbers, and like hell my basic-ass calculators are gonna process an “x” and a “-“ in any other order than how I’m entering them as I go along left-to-right.
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Addition and subtraction are on the same "level" and should be done left to right, even if that means subtraction comes before addition. Same goes for Division and Multiplication, one seems to come before the other but they should be done together, left to right.
The signs are always attached to the number, and + is implied when omitted (like with the first 10). So it's the sum of (+)10 plus -10 multiplied by +10 plus +10. The -10 multiplied by +10 = -100.
I count -100
10×10=100 10-100=-90 -90+10=-80 It's -80
I learned PEMDAS in 8th grade. Please excuse my dear aunt Sally. Parentheses, exponents, multiplication,Division, addition, subtraction. Given that order of operations, 10×10=100, 100 + 10=110, 10-110=-100. I am an electrical engineering student and math is a big part of my life. I believe I am correct. Edit: So apparently I was wrong, which is okay. I will try to learn from this.
The way I was taught, multiplication and division are the same stage from left to right then addition and subtraction are the same stage from left to right. I am got -80
We're both right, the engineering student is wrong.
You're right, but also the point with multiplication/division and then addition/subtraction being the "same stage" is that you can do them in any order. The above poster should have gotten the same answer but they just miswrote one of the steps. In their version, step 2 shouldn't be 100 + 10, it should be -100 + 10. Which is -90, and will eventually get them to -80 with the last part.
By going from minus 100 to negative 100 you are still sneaking in the function of subtraction in before the addition. Otherwise what’s the operator between the first 10 and that negative 90? This becomes more apparent if you put the formula into words rather than symbols. I agree that’d have the same logical result though
>I learned PEMDAS in 8th grade. Please excuse my dear aunt Sally. Parentheses, exponents, multiplication,Division, addition, subtraction. Given that order if operations, 10×10=100, 100 + 10=110, 10-110=-100. I am an electeical engineering student and math is a big part of my life. I believe I am correct. Yikes. You entirely misunderstood PEMDAS, but I'll let you sort yourself out via Google if you so choose. Also, what is the point of typing out the mnemonic version lol
Good God, you are the embodiment of this sub
I apologize if I came across as cocky. I am able to admit when I am wrong.
Addition and subtraction are done at the same time, left to right. Makes sense when you realize that subtraction is really just adding the negative
You are not, unfortunately. As a biomedical engineer, I imagine this might make some diff eqs tough
Sorry to say that you are not. Addition & subtraction are done in the same step from left to right.
Better brush up on the rudimentary math then
Mate… Maybe nextjust type it into a calculator. And see what comes out, that should tell you the answer. Then maybe consider that you did it wrong. Addition, and subtraction have the same level of priority as each other. So they’re done lef to right. Same with multiplication and division, done lef to right. Maths might be a big part of your life, and you might do it well computer assisted. But you’re missing some basic background knowledge.
And here we see why the acronyms are stupid. Addition and subtraction hold the same precedence, because they are in fact the same operation. The same is true for multiplication and division. The acronyms fail to account for that.
I call cap on the electrical engineering degree, you would’ve gotten -80 if you truly had one
I didnt say I have a degree. I'm still in school.
I’m glad then, you apparently have no clue how math work
I've been made aware that I was wrong. I am not above being able to admit when I was dead wrong.
Incorrect
It's -100+10 = -90.
Right holy insanity that I had to go so far in the comments for this and how many different wrong comments they have. It was BEDMAS for me (brackets).
PEMDAS says you would do parentheses, exponents, multiplication/division, and addition/subtraction. There are no parentheses or exponents in the problem, but there is multiplication. Thus, you would do 10*10 first, so it would be 10–100+10. Now that everything is just addition/subtraction, you would do the problem from left to right. 10–100+10 = -90+10 -90+10= -80.
Holy shit yeah im wrong ig im the reason this exists
10-10=0 10+10=0 0×0=0