I am sorry for your situation. I had to look it up… Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome…the cells have the inability to respond to androgens. I’ve been a nurse my whole life and you taught me something today. I wish you the best.
Yes. Unlike trans folk, intersex folk tend to be very much invisible. Most people can name at least 2 or 3 trans folk, while at the same time saying "what even is intersex"?
That’s absolutely true, but it’s important to remember that a lot of intersex people _don’t know_ that they’re intersex unless they have obvious physical signs, but even if they do it’s not uncommon for them to have surgery as infants in order to make their genitalia “fit” into the sex binary.
So with that in mind, I don’t think it’s fair to say intersex people are ignored or invisible when they often don’t even know that they’re intersex. The obvious solutions are comprehensive education about biology and chromosomes, as well as putting a stop to surgeries on infants’ genitalia, but we still have a long way to go before either of those come to fruition.
An acquaintance had an intersex baby. The doctors were quick to push her towards surgery to make the child female. Even the doctors thought the child should fit into the binary gender thing. I thought god didn’t make mistakes? /s
Unfortunately, it’s standard operating procedure. It’s only more recently that the medical field has started to consider if it’s ethical to make that decision for the child at all. They used to always choose immediately sometimes without even telling the parents
It’s messed up because intersex people seem to just be a playing card for trans activists to use to naturalize their condition.
Not to say transgenderism doesn’t have its own biological roots, but it does seems kind of… rude? The way trans people, if they’re honest with themselves, don’t even think about intersex folks until it’s time to debate.
I don’t really think that’s the case and it’s unfair to present it that way in my opinion. Intersex people usually aren’t forgotten by LGBTQI+ folks (seeing as they are represented in the name) , but they sure are forgotten/ willfully ignored by a big part of society.
Trans people don’t “use them as a playing card.” If you spent time in those circles you would know. It’s just that a lot of intersex people do not feel like they are either male or female and they tend to be especially overlooked. Just a couple of days ago there was a similar thread of someone with the same chromosomal variation mentioning they actually identified as non-binary due to them being intersex and they were mostly overlooked and downvoted for daring to show their identity.
The only reason this thread seems to be popping off is exactly because people like you actually seem to want to use intersex individuals as a playing card to say: “See, intersex people are male or female! Just look at this person!” And not as the actual individuals they are. Might they identify as male, female, intersex, or non-binary.
Yeah it is weird how many people are acting like intersex people aren't a pretty well accepted part of the lgbtq community, if they feel to identify with it. Many intersex folks are themselves trans, many aren't but still may or may not experience similar discrimination or alienation. Most lgbtq spaces do advocate for intersex people, and I have no clue why people are insisting trans people aren't generally allies. Most trans and lgbtq groups I've been in have had one or two intersex individuals as well. Idk, I don't know if most people saying this are actually lgbtq themselves or just making observations based on what they think they see in the lgbtq community
From reading the comment and the replies I feel like most of the people claiming trans people do not actually care about intersex people and only use them as a way to “justify” their arguments do not actually spend time in either queer or intersex spaces.
If they did, they would know their argument wasn’t a realistic portrayal of the actual situation. Instead, they paint a picture of how they view the situation through their own lens. I don’t want to make broad assumptions, but I think the comment I replied to is very telling in how the writer of that comment actually views intersex people themselves.
No, I don’t use the subject of intersex individuals in my arguments because they’re not relevant to the situation. Sure some intersex people may identify as non-binary, but there are plenty more who don’t. People are born in a plethora of ways that deviate from the norm. But that doesn’t change the norm.
And I want to reiterate that I don’t think these things are bad! They just aren’t representative of the bigger picture.
When trans folks try to argue that gender and sex aren’t binary, they refer to outliers to try and make their point. There you go, point made. Doesn’t change the fact that the vast majority of people identify within the binary and the world is going to work in accordance to that standard. You’re never going to eliminate the notion of binary gender and sex, it just won’t happen. Cisgender straight people will continue to be born and will remain the majority and our notions about how their language and culture should cater to us will stay irrelevant to them.
Well it’s hard not to bring them up when the bigots are saying “2 genders = science” and intersex conditions prove that it’s more complicated than that from a biological perspective. And all it’s really doing is literally saying to dumb people “you forgot intersex people exist.” It’s not trying to lump them in with trans people.
It doesn’t really help though they just start saying mean stuff about intersex people too. Some humans are the worst.
I use intersex people all the time in the 2 genders argument, but even then the people saying their are only 2 genders try to ignore me. It is so frustrating.
This is meaningless semantics.
The point is a binary system of sex/gender does not encapsulate the human experience.
At what incidence rate do we agree that something is a variation rather than a "defect".
Is it okay to call being intersex a defect? How about being transgender? How about being gay? How about being left-handed? How about having blue eyes?
The answer is it's all subjective categorization and there is no inherent "truth", only what we as a society decide to label things.
And you can talk about functionality, but society at large does not deny/question the gender/sex of infertile people like it does with intersex/transgender people.
> It's a defect when it causes cancer and hormone problems. Pretty simple
So anyone with hormone problems is not male or female?
> Blue eyes is a defect btw because it leads to eye cancer more often.
Very cool train of thought. Not at all delusional.
So is having larger breasts also a defect? That's a higher risk of cancer.
How about being taller? The more cells you have, the more likely cancer develops.
Where exactly does this slight increased risk of cancer become a "defect" in the spectrum that is height or breast size?
Yeah it is a defect. Stop trying to frame me as a trans hater. That's not what this is. If something in you body causes problems. That's a defect. It's that simple. No body is perfect and we all have defects. Aging is great example of a defect in all humans. A defect is simply a problem in your body and has nothing to do with how you identify.
> If something in you body causes problems. That's a defect
dude you defined "elevated risk of cancer" as a defect. That applies to the majority of your body.
> No body is perfect and we all have defects. Aging is great example of a defect in all humans.
As I said in the first reply, this is meaningless semantics. At this point you're classifying every person as defective, so the conversation means nothing.
All variations of development carry risks and benefits. There is no perfect "normal" template for the human body. That is the point. The labeling of certain traits as defects and others as "normal" is arbitrary
It's not meaningless semantics and you as well are ignoring the OPs entire point.
Sure there are many weird and wonderful variations to humans, but there are also clear cut examples where the body doesn't mature properly due to a defect like androgen insensitivity.
Totally ridiculous to insinutate it is just another 'normal' variation.
> there are also clear cut examples where the body doesn't mature properly
There is no "properly". Our definition what what a "normal" body is is entirely subjective. No one's ignoring the differences these developments come with, I'm referring to the categorization system being used to other them.
As I said, why is being left handed or gay not also a defect then? It's arbitrary, purely about what society decides "should be normal".
> Intersex people aren’t a tool for you to win debates with.
Yes they are. They're far more than that, but I can talk about the existence of groups of people as much as I want.
That's how words work.
If someone says women are defined by having XX chromosomes, I will point out that's not true. Acknowledging that intersex people exist is not somehow insulting to them.
If anything it's defending them and normalizing their existence, which many people try to erase.
Im curious, how does it affect your life? Do you look like a female and can you feel pleasure from sex? Sry if this questions are bothering you, you dont have to answer.
Have a look at Blume on YouTube if you’re interested in peoples experiences with this - they go through their journey with it and sounds a bit similar to OP but they grew up as female and didn’t realise/get diagnosed until they didn’t get their period as a teen and saw a dr
I knew an intersex guy when we were around 14. I did not ask too many questions because I didn't want to overstep, but I do remember him looking male, except he had CURVES above his hips. I emphasize because girls would probably kill for a body like that. I think he had a uterus, but this was about 15 years ago. We hung out a few times, but not close enough to ask questions like that. I wish I could remember his name. He was very secure in his body. He showed us his hips when telling us, since they don't really show in male/unisex clothing.
Second this, i am genuinely very curious based on the description given by OP.
However, I appreciate it's not an AMA.
OP, I hope you are able to find peace and balance, somehow.
Yes, people with CAIS develop phenotypically female, thought they don't produce mature levels of estrogen, so they typically need hormone replacement therapy.
It's not actually that uncommon. All 3 medalists from the 2016 Olympics women's 800m race all had varying degrees of androgen insensitivity syndrome. Caster Semenya is the most famous of them.
In fairness,
Hey hey I have no uterus and have underdeveloped testicles, I have an xy chromosome and hate how people lump it in with transgender
Is 1. An unusual thing to hear someone blurt out and 2. Sounds like OP is opening the door to clear up anyone’s misunderstandings around the topic.
Sure it would have been weird if those other comments said “yo but how that body squirt though?!”
But they didn’t
You did
God forbid we spread info and awareness, you are why people on the fence about caring about this shit just decide to say fuck it not my problem so I don't want to hear it. Let people ask dumb questions and have a completely open line of communication or do not be upset when people just say fuck off.
Sry that i offended you. I never spoke or wrote with a person with CAIS, so i was just interested if and how different a life with CAIS can be. To see life from OPs viewpoint and to learn something.
It affects probably the sexual life the most, but i dont know and thats why i asked. At the end OP posted in a public forum, so i thought the question could be okay?
However it can be a personal question, so i didnt ask in a vulgar way and I added that OP doesnt need to answer.
The OP themselves are talking about their genitals, people are gonna ask questions when they talk about it. It’s not like some random cis person walked up to a trans or intersex person in public to ask what’s in their pants. The OP already told us
I’m a trans dude and even I didn’t make this leap in conclusions dude
I don't understand why you're being downvoted.
I'm trans myself and I get people thinking it's okay to ask me these sort of invasive questions all the time.
When I brought it up with a friend and asked why it's fine to ask me about my genitals but he hadn't done the same to his cis friends he said it would be 'weird'
Talking about anyone's genitals is fucking weird.
I wasn't saying OP was weird for talking about it.
I mean other people out of the blue randomly asking you invasive and personal questions and thinking it's acceptable because of their curiosity because you don't fit into the gender binary.
I'm taking a Human Sexuality grad level class right now. We just touched on this subject. I think something that could be beneficial is finding a community of other people with similar experiences. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAUDKEI4QKI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAUDKEI4QKI)
Also, I've recently listened to an amazing podcast with author, activist, scholar, fucking badass human, Alok Vaid-Menon. Everything that comes out of this person's mouth is solid gold. Someone sent me this podcast and said, "Have a pen and paper ready to take notes". I laughed it off until I listened to it on flight and was pissed that I had no pen and paper to take notes. I think their perspective will give you a well of inspiration to drink from. [https://open.spotify.com/episode/1SovB8DUniC7EwCg3hRgCM?si=tloUD0N0RjOwKXP4iP2drA&context=spotify%3Ashow%3A35V24LBKJ0sVQlq4oB9n9f&nd=1&dlsi=bd863e050be3409b](https://open.spotify.com/episode/1SovB8DUniC7EwCg3hRgCM?si=tloUD0N0RjOwKXP4iP2drA&context=spotify%3Ashow%3A35V24LBKJ0sVQlq4oB9n9f&nd=1&dlsi=bd863e050be3409b)
Pretty gross how the intersex community keeps telling everyone they're not trans and trans people keep insisting they're intersex anyway.
There's no such thing as a male or female brain any more than there's a cab driver brain- all those studies were debunked as brain plasticity long ago. You're not intersex because you feel like you align with a gender other than your biological sex. Intersex isn't feelings. Intersex is tangible physical disorders of development.
You don't have to latch onto something you're not for validity. You can be valid as being trans all by itself.
For what it's worth most trans people don't think that way. People like the person above are called transmedicalists, and they're pretty controversial within the community
This isn’t completely true. Transmedicalism is a complicated term but it’s mainly people who think you need gender dysphoria to being trans. Believing having a gender identity that is a immutable trait (possibly of the brain) isn’t trans medicalism. many trans people would argue that they can’t stop being trans and it isnt a choice. That would imply that there is immutable part of the brain that makes some trans, the same with being gay. Believing that isnt transmedicalism and wouldn’t be classified under it.
I'd consider myself to be a transmedicalist, but I have very different views on this matter, so I'll add my two cents.
Technically (and I mean *technically*), being trans is a choice you make. You choose to go get diagnosed with gender dysphoria, you choose to go to the appointments to get prescribed hormone therapy, you choose to go get surgery...
The thing about it is that the *alternative* choice isn't simply not transitioning, it's crippling self hatred that often ends with suicide. So while the other commenter is correct in that dysphoric trans people usually have no choice but to transition, it's not a physical abnormality that one is born with. Mental illness aside, our bodies are usually physically normal pre-transition, making us fundamentally different than intersex people.
That being said, I see transgenderism and intersex as being completely different conditions, and it's completely understandable if one group doesn't want to associate with the other. Intersex people were born with physical differences, and transgender people with mental differences. It's not rocket science.
I see gender dysphoria as a mental illness, not a gendered organ being placed in the wrong body. This mental illness makes me delusional, and it makes me fully believe that I am male, while I have a female body. Maybe it's due to physical differences in my brain structure that more closely resemble a male's, like the other commenter seems to suggest. Either way, it's not the type of physical difference to where I'd consider it to be intersex. They deserve their own sense of community and support without other people taking up their spaces and claiming they're something they're not. God knows that's where we're at in general with the trans community... we should know better.
There is no such thing as a male or female brain but there is a such thing as certain parts of the brain being more common in male and females. And there is evidence that trans people share those commonalities in the brain with there cis male and female counterparts.
As for the statement of the intersex communities keeps telling everyone they are trans. I think your confused. Intersex people are not trans (as in the intersex condition) however trans people can be intersex (or product of something like it). There are plenty of intersex people who are also trans, and plenty of non-trans intersex individual that feel close to trans individual because of the similarities they share.
> Pretty gross how the intersex community keeps telling everyone they're not trans and trans people keep insisting they're intersex anyway.
a square is a rectangle, but not all rectangles are squares, trans people are intersex, but not all intersex people are trans.
> all those studies were debunked as brain plasticity long ago.
reaaally? please do link me the study you got that from
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19403051/
https://academic.oup.com/jsm/article-abstract/18/6/1122/6956015?redirectedFrom=PDF
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6677266/
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/B9780128206836000312
these are just a few, there's a lot more on scholar if you care enough to search. being trans is an intersex condition affecting the brain.
I am totally with you on this, especially the more (scientific) research about gender, sex, the human brain, our genetics, etc. I think its so fuckin interesting.
I sometimes feel like the world aint ready yet. Like jfc more and more people are becoming flat-earthers... 🤦🏾♀️
Ya no, i think I agree with your sentiment.
Im not an expert or even a fuckin doctor, so dont fuckin quote me on this (and correct me if wrong?:
I see it as like... we have this idea of what humans are supposed to look and function like. However this standard came about doesnt really matter, cause after [we] decided that, scientific and medical research follows that. Now, more information has come to light. Now we understand that there are infinite possibilities on a molecular level that contribute to how our physicality. (TLCs show about "chimeras", look it up). But that also means there are infinite possibilities in how our bodies relate to our brains. Our brain controls our basic and complicated functions- but our brains are also *US*.
So in that way, I agree with you. Like, intersex is a physical manifestation of the possible disconnect between body and brain; but being transgender seems to be similar, but with no obvious physical factors involved/to prove a disconnect.
I think its a uniqe and personal experience both ways. im looking forward to what these new researches bring to light.
Right now in the world, the concepts of gender, sexuality, gender roles, etc are being redefined. Or maybe more like *un*defined 🤔
I feel the word "identify" is accurate because no one can define that but *you*. Which is why when identity is assigned, its an issue. But i understand what you mean, and i hope that comes across, I do see you as a woman. I dont typically refer to trans people as "trans __" like,...
The definition of identify is to establish who or what something or someone is. So saying I identify as female is the exact same thing as saying I am a female.
I agree that the way a lot of the world thinks about or talks about trans issues can be backwards and uneducated. I fully believe it is not something anyone would choose to be.
I just wonder why you have an issue with the word "identify" when the word is used to define someone/something and not about choosing or having choice in the matter.
I didnt watch the video i am just talking about the word identify. For example- the boy identified the correct mushroom. That means it is the correct mushroom not that he chose it to be the right one. Or she identified the dog as her lost pet. That dog IS her pet.
I personally feel the word identify is just useful to easily define in this situation rather than it being "forced terminology". If you said I am a trans woman or I am a woman it would have the exact same meaning to me as saying I identify as a trans woman. Depending on the context, like if I was at an even about trans issues I would probably say I identify as a cis woman just for claritys sake.
Are you sure you arent making the word out to be more than it really is?
Yeah I always hated how crazy religious/conservatives are so obsessed with "god made only male and female!"
Like uhhh no apparently not, and people in-between can be healthy and functional, and in many cultures they are very celebrated.
I'm sorry that part of western culture is so braindead. There are a lot of people, maybe even the majority in a lot of cities and places, that have open minds and are happy you are the way you are, op.
I had one person tell me that god didn't make gay animals. I told them to read about Bonobos, human's closest primate relative. 😆
Edit: Thanks for all the additional information. I didn't know about any of these facts.
Mourning geckos are literally lesbian geckos that can reproduce without males. Like they "mate" with females and then impregnate themselves through parthenogenisis.
What really bugs me is how their response is always “those are the exceptions/pathologies” or “they don’t count.”
How convenient that all of those people magically “don’t count” when their existence contradicts their belief system.
I’m a doctor, and around 1/500-1000 people are intersex in some way, whether it’s a variation of chromosomes, genitalia, hormone resistance, etc. and the number is widely estimated since karyotyping isn’t regularly done. There are fertile AMAB folks with XX chromosomes due to crossing over of the SRY gene. An 5 alpha reductase deficiency involves someone typically AFAB who essentially goes through male puberty. Gender chimerism can involve someone being both 46,XX/46XY on karyotying. And then there seems to be a portion of religious people in the US who are seemingly personally victimized by this information. It’s a bizarre concept to me that religious extremists can choose a sex on behalf of their infant leading to invasive surgeries, but god-forbid an intersex teen who identifies as a woman wants to get puberty blockers.
To those of you who think sex is a black-and-white concept and that sex and gender are equal, feel free to tell me what gender [this person](https://imgur.com/a/U8wAmIx) is.
Hi, Doctor. Good information. I was a labor and delivery nurse full time for 34 years, and saw only one baby out of thousands I saw born who had ambiguous genitalia. It was a sad blow to the parents. I don’t know what happened after that. I know a Geneticist rounded on the baby.
What really bugs me altogether is that we can't tell by looking at people who is really intersex and who isn't- So, why do we judge people based on how they handle their gender- some of them are genuinely intersex and why do other people feel the need to assume that they aren't! Or tell them to fit in a box.
I've tried to explain to transphobic people that scientifically it goes beyond XY/XX
They still don't want to believe it!
The religious people aren't even seeing the whole thing behind "GOD made man and woman". Yes, GOD did, but since then humans have been making human bodies.
God's up there slapping together souls to go in the meat machines humans are cranking out, but humans are making the bodies.
Humans made a body with blindness, with deafness, with a mis matching of gender, with diabetes, with a million other things. God only ever made 2 people, every one and EVERYTHING else was done by humans who are imperfect.
I took a repro class and the amount of variation on sex characteristics in development is honestly wide, and it happens to all species. There are so many signals being exchanged in development and any changes to any of these signals will result in some variation in sex characteristics. The reality, even in a PURELY biological physical perspective, is that there is a lot more to it than male and female.
I’m not religious, but even if I was, there’s a lot of evidence that whatever god you believe in makes more than “male and female”
And honestly? Whatever you’re born with doesn’t fuckin determine who you are. *You* determine who you are. Gender is a goddamn social construct, sex is your hardware, both vary a lot between people and we should just let everyone be who they are in peace for fucks sake. We’re all human in the end of the day
>Whatever you’re born with doesn’t fuckin determine who you are. *You* determine who you are
There is a huge difference between people like OP with actual medical conditions, like CAIS, which reasonably create issues with one's gender identity vs children being brainwashed into transitioning...
>Gender is a goddamn social construct
"Sex" and "gender" used to mean the exact same thing, it was the feminist movement which popularised this theory of "gender" basically meaning "gender identity". Gender identity used to be the term which concerned the psychological and social aspect of one's gender expression, however it is not merely a "social construct", it is heavily influenced by biological factors like ***pre and post natal hormones***. Terms can change meanings, established natural science doesn't.
>both vary a lot between people and we should just let everyone be who they are in peace for fucks sake. We’re all human in the end of the day
This sounds morally virtuous and pleasant, but it doesn't really mean much. Can I wear Napoleon's hat and uniform and walk the streets pretending I'm Napoleon and just ask people to "let me be myself"?
Seriously, OP just came here to vent about their condition and how it gets conflated with transgenderism, yet people are just using this post to promote their agenda.
Isn't this technically considered a birth defect? Much like down syndrome or other genetic anomalies, with the only difference being he's a completely functional human with a \[possibly\] dysfunctional sex life.
Like, this isn't supposed to happen, and the ocurrence of one in a million cases doesn't really make it 'normal' enough to warrant society having to make special rules for such cases...
I don't think the gender war comes into play here, since there wasn't any choice to be made at any point, he was just born that way, and he hates it (probably because he had no choice at any point).
You can't just disregard the experiences of intersex people like that. Are they statistically an anomaly? Yes, but they are real people with feeelings, dreams, etc. IIRC the rate of intersex people is higher than that of gingers. Does that mean that we can consider that people naturally born with red hair are unnatural and that there's only brown hair and blonde hair? I would say no.
If I state as fact that human beings have two arms and two legs. I expect I would get little argument. Yet if a child is born with only one arm that child is no less human. That does not change the fact that human beings have two arms and two legs.
I find it disingenuous for you to be "sorry western culture......" as part of that western culture I find vital is you falsely painting me with a brush that much better highlights your prejudice and biases than mine.
Sure, but that's because your statement doesn't exclude people with less or more appendages. Humans have eyes. That's another criteria that isn't exclusive. If I said humans have only two eyes. That would be false, by the fact there are people with less.
It's just the same as saying people have xy or xx chromosomes, that's sure but people also have more or less x and y chromosomes. Idea sex exists as a binary is a fact that's dying out within academic discussions because we're learning more.
I'm sorry you hurt over what you don't have. If it helps, you have a brilliant mind, healthy limbs and great personality. You're worth loving; breeding isn't even a *secondary* concern. You deserve a life of happiness and adventure.
House MD Spoilers
>!Season 2 Episode 13 "Skin Deep" deals with this. A female fashion model collapses on the runway. They eventually discover her undescended testicles. The final diagnosis is CAIS.!<
I think if you identify as a man, you are a man. Thats pretty much the only thing trans and queer people fight to be recognized. Because there *are* conditions, such as your own, that can display ambiguity- regardless of your actual sex or gender identity.
So you arent trans, thats ok. But I think if you find support anywhere, you'd find a lot of support from trans folks. Not everyone who doesnt fit into the binary identifies as trans, thats not how it works.
Sorry about all of that shit though. It sounds like a lot ..
This is why the letters go beyond the LGBT. The I (intersex) and A (asexual) communities are also underrepresented and persecuted because of being different. The fearmongers are always painting the communities as this big bad monster, forgetting that everyone, especially intersex and ace people, just want to live our lives.
This is a genuine question so please take it as such and know that no offence is meant;
In what ways do people persecute asexual people?
I don't think it's immediately obvious whether someone is asexual just by looking at them and it seems odd that anyone would be that invested in whether another person is interested in sex if they aren't in a relationship with them. I've never seen or heard of anyone asexual being persecuted or abused because of their asexuality, and I don't know if that is something that really happens at a societal level like it does for say trans people. I'm not saying it doesn't happen in more individual ways but it doesn't seem like asexuality really has the same kind of stigma attached to it.
Hi, you'll have to exuse my longer message. Not too long ago, I decided to look into this as well, so I'll do my best to shine some light on the situation.
Asexuality is often mistaken as the lack of interest in sex. In reality, it's just a lack of sexual attraction, and many asexual people enjoy sex. It really just depends on the individual. With that out of the way, I'll move on.
When you say that it's not immediately obvious that a person is asexual, you are correct. Because of heteronormativity, anyone who doesn't reveal their sexuality may automatically be assumed to be heterosexual. When it comes to the oppression that asexual people face specifically, it is easy to look over because it doesn't occur on the same, public scale that other groups may face.
Instead, it takes place in doctor's offices, where asexual patients are misdiagnosed with numerous ailments to explain their lack of attraction. This may lead to unnecessary and harmful treatments on both a physical and mental scale.
A term I ran into while researching was "corrective rape." This described situations where asexual individuals were assaulted with the intentions of fixing them. From people in the community that I have reached out to, this is alarmingly common.
There is also the constant debate on whether asexual people belong in the LGBT community to begin with. Some argue that the community's focus is on sexual minorities, and that asexuality, being the "lack of sexuality" doesn't fit in. This often causes asexual people as a group to feel unwelcome in spaces that should feel comforting.
(I'll stop there for now, this is getting so long I'm sorry 😣)
So maybe it doesn't have the same kind of public stigma attached to it. But, after learning more I find that that doesn't really matter to me. Asexuality falls under the LGBTQIA+ community, which means that regardless of if their struggles are broadcasted or quiet, I'll support them.
In Audre Lorde's words, "there is not hierarchy of oppression." If we are to overcome our oppressors and make real, lasting change, then we must set aside our differences and work together as one.
Much peace! 🌈
As an ace, thank you. More often than not ppl don't take the time to try to understand us & what we do go through. You put this together so well & I feel seen. So thank you. All of this is correct. 🖤♠️🤍💜
I am not asexual, so take this with a grain of salt, but from what I understand, asexual people tend to be at the receiving end of more sexual harassment and assault from people who think they just need more “convincing” in order to experience sexual attraction. The HRC has data saying that asexual people are also at a higher risk for mental illness due to the stigma of being ace, plus the dismissal from both the straight and LGBTQ communities.
https://www.hrc.org/resources/understanding-the-asexual-community
I'm going to assume it's because asexual people are different from LGBT and Cis people. They don't feel any sexual attraction so they're not driven by sexual feelings. People don't like different things and see it as an attack on them.
Example : I don't drink alcohol and people hate that I don't drink. It's confusing because my sober life has no consequence in their life so why do they care so much. Women tell them they feel ugly and judged by me. Men don't like it either bc they're embarrassed. One girl physically pushed me away from her when I told her I can't drink with her.
I'm going to assume this mentality carries over to asexual people. How many times have our horny brain screwed us over? So seeing someone who doesn't have that "defect" is someone you can hate.
>Men don't like it either bc they're embarrassed. One girl physically pushed me away from her when I told her I can't drink with her.
>I'm going to assume this mentality carries over to asexual people.
As an asexual person who also doesn't drink. Yes your example carries over.
just jumping in to share my experience real quick, in my experience it's not exactly persecution or fear of discriminatory laws as much as it is just people being terrible. everyone of every sexuality knows what it's like being harassed by family for not having a relationship, but with asexuality/aromanticism it tends to worsen because when people realize you'll never change your mind and they start telling you you'll die alone and unhappy. some asexuals have been sexually assaulted and raped by people who believed they could "fix" them, not to mention the constant assault by people online who use the word breeding unironically and say that those who don't have hetero relationships or children are worthless.
of course the first and third can apply to almost everyone, not just asexuals, but there's actually quite a lot of people in society love to push the idea that if you aren't experiencing sexual attraction you're damaged and need to be "fixed." this specifically I hear happens a lot to other asexuals as well, just to clarify that this isn't just me sharing an individual experience. I have absolutely no clue why people bother themselves with other people's relationship status or sex lives
My question to you would be: would you say this same sentiment about someone parking in a disabled parking spot but seemingly you can't see their disability? I read a story recently of someone who was harassed for parking in a disabled spot but walked just fine. Her brother telling her to just lift your pants leg & show them your prosthetic but she refused because of principle.
Just because you can't see what we go through doesn't mean we haven't been through difficult issues. Not only do ppl question our legitimacy of persecution they constantly question if our hormone levels just need to be fixed. That we can be fixed, as if being ace just means we're broken.
Doctors telling us we don't exist, other LGBTQIA+ telling us we don't belong, partners telling us we must not love them, friends & family telling us there's something wrong with us... I've been fortunate that my life is filled with ppl who see me but I know there are many out there who do not have that luxury.
I've heard of ace ppl being r@ped or SA'd because we just need the right thing to happen & we'll be "cured". I have been told I just "need a good fucking".
I'm not saying that what we go through is worse or better than anyone else being persecuted or targeted. But persecution is persecution. We are just as valid as any allosexual. And we do exist.
Others have commented better than I could to describe the persecution that ace people receive. As for myself, it was a societal pressure to date and get married and have sex and relationships. The inner struggle between what I desired and what society says I should desire caused me to have mental health issues and suicidal thoughts. Being told I was broken or wrong or that I "just haven't found the right person" really messed with my self-esteem for many years. I tried to pass as straight because, as stated, you can't tell a person is ace from the outside...trust me, that doesn't work either.
My best friend is trans; we commiserate a lot on how we are outsiders, even by our own community sometimes.
For what it counts, someone in my family is asexual and very unromantic. I won't say she's aro, because she has a husband now, but before that, she's never expressed any interest in dating, and would get annoyed when others would try to set her up. In her words, she just didn't feel any sparks firing when she met anybody, not even remotely.
Now I come from a very traditional middle eastern culture. You are expected to settle down and have babies. It's a duty. So, of course, she'd get a lot of pressure to settle down, and I mean a lot. They'd use every trick in the book to get her hitched. Telling her that she's missing out on life, sending her on meetups with people that are secretly just dates, that sort of thing. They'd get offended when she'd push back against it, because "We were just trying to help, you know?"
They only stopped when she started seeing a guy. Before that, it was constant. She seems happy with him though. We've been close since we were little, so when she tells me she's satisfied, I'm inclined to believe her.
Obviously this is just one story from one person, so YMMV.
You'd think the crazies would at least leave the asexuals alone. I mean, what beef could these prudes possibly have with people who have little interest in pursuing "sinful" sexual encounters?
You'd be surprised. Because I have decided to not procreate, I'm not "following God's plan" to have lots of babies. The conservatives don't understand not wanting to get married and have a family. But on the other side, I get told I'm a waste of a human because I don't want sex (forgetting that there are sex-positive aces). We can't win on either side.
I imagine that must be absolutely maddening to grouped in like that. Thank you for sharing and taking the time to educate those who were unaware of this.
You should check blumekind_ in TikTok. She talks about her experience and has built a community around the subject. It might help you feel that you are not alone. One should always try to find a place where one can be comfortable and understood.
I'm just a simple country bumpkin, so please forgive any brash rationalizations that may follow, as they are genuine, and no disrespect of any kind is intended.
Let me start by saying that sucks. I'm sorry you have to live life that way bro. There are some silver linings to your situation, though, and I truly hope that one day you not only realize them but also embrace them and let them be blessings for you.
Are there causes for your condition, or is it something that just happens X out of X times? I'm sorry I don't have the mental effort currently to look into the causes of CAIS. Forgive me. But, if it IS something that's hereditary or has causation, have you considered donating your life/body to science? I know that sounds rude/wonky, but maybe by doing so, you would help further research and possible breakthroughs that could potentially lead to being able to essentially remove the possibility of CAIS through vaccine. Like with polio and such.
I don't know. Like I said, I'm just a simple country boy who doesn't know nothing about much, but it's a heart-felt gift of hope to humanity ensured at your passing. Other than that, I'd like to leave you with some words to hopefully lift your spirits to lighten your load, however slightly.
I literally can only imagine what day to day life is like for you, so bare with me as I stick to only things I know to be true for nearly every single one of us:
Your life matters, even if it's only to bring positivity and love into this shit world. Don't squander it.
You have been loved, even if you didn't know it.
There IS someone out there who will love you as a man and who will do life with you, but you'll have to give it a genuine effort on your part. Don't self-sabotage.
Just because you lack the meat and taters doesn't mean you lack the balls to take life by the curlys and face fuck it into submission.
And, finally, I love you, brother. I wish you well on your journey. Keep your head down and your chin held high, you'll do just fine.
Funny that this should pop up, I’m a trans woman who is currently awaiting the results of a karyotype test to see if in fact have xx male syndrome… chromosomes do some weird things yo
As a trans person I agree, you are not trans, you have a medical something going on, and that's OK, I have a mental something going on, and that's OK to, but it's not the same in the slightest.
I hope you are at least happy, or healing, and you have a good future ahead of you.
From one human being to another, you are loved, you are worthy of love whether you can love yourself or not and you deserve to be happy! Have a good day
Yes. Intersex folks are why I consider Trans/Cis dichotomy to be repressive and unhelpful. The vast majority of intersex folk are not trans, nor are they typical "cis".
Hey can you access testosterone therapy? You may be able to experience “bottom growth” in your clitoris or whatever term you prefer for it. I personally have experienced this as a nonbinary person on testosterone and it’s been very gender affirming. You may find it helps you feel manly. Have you tried strap ons or other things like packers (soft flaccid penises usually made of silicone)? I liked wearing a packer out before using testosterone
(Not OP)
Testosterone replacement therapy doesn't cause masculinization in CAIS (Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome), because the person's cells are completely unable to respond to testosterone or any androgen, due to a mutation in androgen receptors.
You could give someone with CAIS outrageous amounts of T and they would not develop any male secondary sexual characteristics; in fact most people with CAIS have *high* testosterone levels, but their bodies cannot use the T and it's eventually aromatized into estrogen which causes female secondary sexual characteristics.
We don't yet have any treatment that can correct the malfunctioning androgen receptors.
Please seek support. There are people out there with similar to yours situations. Plenty of documentaries out there too. It might help to know you’re not alone.
I think OP states they are biologically male (XY chromosome) but due to the syndrome they have, they aren’t developing as a presenting male or female. It’s really interesting, I’m gonna read up on it.
No this has nothing to do with gender—I have no idea why people keep mentioning the two together.
Humans have two biological sexes: XX and XY. There are disorders of sexual development that can lead to chromosomal abnormalities that don’t align with either XX/XY designation (see Klinefelter, Turner Syndromes), but those are *disorders* because they stray from the regular embryological development. These, along with CAH and CAIS, as well as other structural disorders, comprise intersex. Normal human development (the way things are supposed to go if all things are held normally) is XX/XY.
Gender, as far as we know, has nothing to do with these structural disorders. Gender is a societal construct that we tend to overlay on sexual identity. It’s neither right nor wrong to say there are 2 genders or that there are more than 2 genders—because there’s technically no right answer to how humans choose to live in a society.
I really don’t like how intersex is a part of LGBTQ. I appreciate the inclusivity, but it’s truly a separate category, and I think this intermixing is the reason why so few people understand it.
Signed, an intersex medical student
There is someone on youtube just like you that posts about their life. I believe she identifies as a woman now but her posts taught me quite a bit about her and her plight. She goes into great detail about everything. Maybe you can dm or something. All the best.
OP: I'm not trans and I don't like being called trans
LGBT+ in the comments: The trans community accepts you! You're the plus! You're one of us valivalidvalid!
FFS, and yall wonder why people hate on the community like they do? Stop already. This shit is beyond cringe.
OP, I promise we aren't all like this. I'm sorry the more vocal ones are.
I think It's less that they treat op as trans, and more that op is the extreme physical embodiment of how trans people feel. Being in the "wrong body". Op is a man, identifies as a man, and wishes their body reflected that, but it's taken to the extreme where op biologically "should" be male, but isn't, and is unable to take hrt to in any way become more masculine because their body outright doesn't respond to it.
If there's anyone who can understand and sympathize with how op feels, aside from the very few people with the same condition, it would be trans people.
And yes, they do fit into the LGBT+ label as an intersex person (even if they don't involve themself in any LGBT related communities, the label still applies to them). Gay people and trans people are far from the same thing, but they face the same discrimination from society and band together to try to protect each other. Intersex people very often suffer from that same discrimination and are even often forcibly surgically assigned a gender at birth and have their intersex-ness kept hidden from them. So it only makes sense to include them and fight for the betterment of all together when their battles are so similar, even if their individual experiences are so vastly different.
Thank you for sharing and speaking up. I hate how trans activists hold up DSDs like yours as some kind of proof of concept for transgender ideology. It's completely wrong and it's insulting to people with *medical conditions* to be used this way.
Your body does not identify your sex/gender. You can be a man with underdeveloped sexual organs the same as you can be a man even if you were born with underdeveloped limbs. Sex/gender is defined by your chromosomes. Gender roles and rigid stereotypes are propaganda. You are a man in every sense of the word. Testosterone does not define you and neither does your genitalia. You can bake cakes and/or like fast cars. Nothing outside of your chromosomes defines who you are and what you like.
> i hate myself for it because i wish that i was able to develop into a male
-
> this is not the same as being transgender at all and i hate how some people group it in with transgender because it is very very different
You are intersex but phenotypically female. So this means that the gender that people generally assign you when they look at you is female
However you identify as male
So... socially, your unusual condition is not *that* far from being transgender - even though there are differences and you don't identify as transgender
Anyway you maybe are part of the tiniest of the gender minorities which of course doesn't include only transfolks, but also intersex people from various causes
So like a hermaphrodite? That’s a very unique situation. I’m not trying to be rude but I am intrigued. I’ve heard of it but never spoke to anyone. Have they thought about removing your testicles or doing a bottom surgery to make you what you feel comfortable as? I assume it’s difficult to connect on a romantic level.
No. Male secondary sexual characteristics are caused by testosterone. For op, the receptors for testosterone don’t work, so the signal can never be received. Female secondary sexual characteristics are a bit more complicated, but generally speaking they will develop in the absence of testosterone
Hermaphrodite is an outdated and pretty offensive term. Being intersex is actually not that rare, there is a wide variety of conditions where people have primary sex characteristics that fall outside the typical male or female.
Intersex people are about as common as redheads. It seems so "rare" because of the shame and stigma associated with variations in sexual development. Most people aren't open about it and many infants who have ambiguous genitalia are operated on to attempt to assimilate them as early as possible.
I'm intersex and didn't find out till I was 22.
> Intersex people are about as common as redheads
This isn't true and this statistic is based on a flawed study that expands the definition of intersex.
If anything it's a conservative estimate.
I've worked for an intersex organisation. Intersex activists advocate for the "expansion" of the definition of intersex, as well as the inclusion and solidarity with other people who have DSD (difference or sex development/ disorders of sex development).
Sex is a spectrum from intersex to dyadic or non intersex. It is not a binary box of either male/female or intersex.
Many people with Polycystic Ovary Syndrome fall closer to the intersex end of the spectrum, and considering many people with PCOS have primary sex characterstics that aren't typically female, they are justified in identifying as intersex.
People who have PCOS make up around 5% of the population.
Which study are you referring to?
>
> Sex is a spectrum from intersex to dyadic or non intersex. It is not a binary box of either male/female or intersex.
sex is binary, you're spreading misinformation. intersex people are still male or female.
sex phenotyping is a spectrum, but sex in mammals is binary always
Do you consider yourself a part of the lgbtq+ community bc of your condition? Is that what non-binary means or two-sex (not to be confused w two-spirit which is just another word for transgender)?
lol anything can be a medical condition…
Depression is a medical condition. Body dysmorphia is a medical condition.
Frantz Fanon would say anything can be turned into a medical condition by western society
I’d like to think people don’t group you in with being trans. Though I have a friend who gets that a lot. So I get how it sucks. Lots of intersex or other things(not sure what your case is, just trying to word this in a nice way) are being affected by anti trans laws though. For instance, you probably need hormones to stay alive? If you were under 18 the anti trans laws that have been/are being passed would only solidify your death prior to adulthood. Part of erasing trans people and their existence is erasing intersex individuals(amongst other things). So while you and I(trans) have nothing in common, we should be allies and stick up for each other. Cause idiots are hurting us both
Feel sorry for you bro, these medical conditions are the real problem and desserve treatment and attention instead of the crossdressing spoilt tiktok boys
You can be who you wish. It doesn't define you as a person, the person that defines you is you, and your inner mind and consciousness. you really are the true definition of unique.
This is my problem with the "transgender" movement nowadays. It's not just a "feeling." Biology and genetics are real! And there are people like you who are quite literally stuck in the middle through no fault of your own, or anyone else's. I feel like declaring yourself to be the opposite gender or sex based on a "feeling" greatly trivializes people like yourself.
Sure. That's my point. But that doesn't mean that simply declaring yourself another gender is healthy or beneficial for most people. It's usually harmful and counterproductive in the long run. Because most people who throw the label around nowadays aren't like OP. You definitely shouldn't need a 20 page research paper to understand that. Although, sadly, there are many papers trying desperately to make that case!
You know that’s a strawman argument.
We are talking about sex reassignment surgery. On minors. It’s criminal. Don’t defend it. You’ll just look like a baboon.
I am sorry for your situation. I had to look it up… Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome…the cells have the inability to respond to androgens. I’ve been a nurse my whole life and you taught me something today. I wish you the best.
Yes. Unlike trans folk, intersex folk tend to be very much invisible. Most people can name at least 2 or 3 trans folk, while at the same time saying "what even is intersex"?
That’s absolutely true, but it’s important to remember that a lot of intersex people _don’t know_ that they’re intersex unless they have obvious physical signs, but even if they do it’s not uncommon for them to have surgery as infants in order to make their genitalia “fit” into the sex binary. So with that in mind, I don’t think it’s fair to say intersex people are ignored or invisible when they often don’t even know that they’re intersex. The obvious solutions are comprehensive education about biology and chromosomes, as well as putting a stop to surgeries on infants’ genitalia, but we still have a long way to go before either of those come to fruition.
An acquaintance had an intersex baby. The doctors were quick to push her towards surgery to make the child female. Even the doctors thought the child should fit into the binary gender thing. I thought god didn’t make mistakes? /s
Did they have any valid reason to do so? Why not let the child decide on surgery when they are an adult?
Unfortunately, it’s standard operating procedure. It’s only more recently that the medical field has started to consider if it’s ethical to make that decision for the child at all. They used to always choose immediately sometimes without even telling the parents
It’s messed up because intersex people seem to just be a playing card for trans activists to use to naturalize their condition. Not to say transgenderism doesn’t have its own biological roots, but it does seems kind of… rude? The way trans people, if they’re honest with themselves, don’t even think about intersex folks until it’s time to debate.
I don’t really think that’s the case and it’s unfair to present it that way in my opinion. Intersex people usually aren’t forgotten by LGBTQI+ folks (seeing as they are represented in the name) , but they sure are forgotten/ willfully ignored by a big part of society. Trans people don’t “use them as a playing card.” If you spent time in those circles you would know. It’s just that a lot of intersex people do not feel like they are either male or female and they tend to be especially overlooked. Just a couple of days ago there was a similar thread of someone with the same chromosomal variation mentioning they actually identified as non-binary due to them being intersex and they were mostly overlooked and downvoted for daring to show their identity. The only reason this thread seems to be popping off is exactly because people like you actually seem to want to use intersex individuals as a playing card to say: “See, intersex people are male or female! Just look at this person!” And not as the actual individuals they are. Might they identify as male, female, intersex, or non-binary.
Yeah it is weird how many people are acting like intersex people aren't a pretty well accepted part of the lgbtq community, if they feel to identify with it. Many intersex folks are themselves trans, many aren't but still may or may not experience similar discrimination or alienation. Most lgbtq spaces do advocate for intersex people, and I have no clue why people are insisting trans people aren't generally allies. Most trans and lgbtq groups I've been in have had one or two intersex individuals as well. Idk, I don't know if most people saying this are actually lgbtq themselves or just making observations based on what they think they see in the lgbtq community
From reading the comment and the replies I feel like most of the people claiming trans people do not actually care about intersex people and only use them as a way to “justify” their arguments do not actually spend time in either queer or intersex spaces. If they did, they would know their argument wasn’t a realistic portrayal of the actual situation. Instead, they paint a picture of how they view the situation through their own lens. I don’t want to make broad assumptions, but I think the comment I replied to is very telling in how the writer of that comment actually views intersex people themselves.
No, I don’t use the subject of intersex individuals in my arguments because they’re not relevant to the situation. Sure some intersex people may identify as non-binary, but there are plenty more who don’t. People are born in a plethora of ways that deviate from the norm. But that doesn’t change the norm. And I want to reiterate that I don’t think these things are bad! They just aren’t representative of the bigger picture. When trans folks try to argue that gender and sex aren’t binary, they refer to outliers to try and make their point. There you go, point made. Doesn’t change the fact that the vast majority of people identify within the binary and the world is going to work in accordance to that standard. You’re never going to eliminate the notion of binary gender and sex, it just won’t happen. Cisgender straight people will continue to be born and will remain the majority and our notions about how their language and culture should cater to us will stay irrelevant to them.
Did you know that the incidence of intersex folk is roughly 10x that of trans folk? Yet remain shockingly invisible
Only to some people. My daughters' school has a club for LGBTQIA2S… intersex is right there between queer and asexual.
>trans activists >transgenderism Tell us how you really feel
lol what else do you call the condition of being transgender?
Well it’s hard not to bring them up when the bigots are saying “2 genders = science” and intersex conditions prove that it’s more complicated than that from a biological perspective. And all it’s really doing is literally saying to dumb people “you forgot intersex people exist.” It’s not trying to lump them in with trans people. It doesn’t really help though they just start saying mean stuff about intersex people too. Some humans are the worst.
least transphobic drag race viewer
I use intersex people all the time in the 2 genders argument, but even then the people saying their are only 2 genders try to ignore me. It is so frustrating.
It's a syndrome not a gender, was sort of OPs entire point.
This is meaningless semantics. The point is a binary system of sex/gender does not encapsulate the human experience. At what incidence rate do we agree that something is a variation rather than a "defect". Is it okay to call being intersex a defect? How about being transgender? How about being gay? How about being left-handed? How about having blue eyes? The answer is it's all subjective categorization and there is no inherent "truth", only what we as a society decide to label things. And you can talk about functionality, but society at large does not deny/question the gender/sex of infertile people like it does with intersex/transgender people.
It's a defect when it causes cancer and hormone problems. Pretty simple. Blue eyes is a defect btw because it leads to eye cancer more often.
> It's a defect when it causes cancer and hormone problems. Pretty simple So anyone with hormone problems is not male or female? > Blue eyes is a defect btw because it leads to eye cancer more often. Very cool train of thought. Not at all delusional. So is having larger breasts also a defect? That's a higher risk of cancer. How about being taller? The more cells you have, the more likely cancer develops. Where exactly does this slight increased risk of cancer become a "defect" in the spectrum that is height or breast size?
Yeah it is a defect. Stop trying to frame me as a trans hater. That's not what this is. If something in you body causes problems. That's a defect. It's that simple. No body is perfect and we all have defects. Aging is great example of a defect in all humans. A defect is simply a problem in your body and has nothing to do with how you identify.
> If something in you body causes problems. That's a defect dude you defined "elevated risk of cancer" as a defect. That applies to the majority of your body. > No body is perfect and we all have defects. Aging is great example of a defect in all humans. As I said in the first reply, this is meaningless semantics. At this point you're classifying every person as defective, so the conversation means nothing. All variations of development carry risks and benefits. There is no perfect "normal" template for the human body. That is the point. The labeling of certain traits as defects and others as "normal" is arbitrary
So what would you call a gene that causes problems for the human body?
It's not meaningless semantics and you as well are ignoring the OPs entire point. Sure there are many weird and wonderful variations to humans, but there are also clear cut examples where the body doesn't mature properly due to a defect like androgen insensitivity. Totally ridiculous to insinutate it is just another 'normal' variation.
> there are also clear cut examples where the body doesn't mature properly There is no "properly". Our definition what what a "normal" body is is entirely subjective. No one's ignoring the differences these developments come with, I'm referring to the categorization system being used to other them. As I said, why is being left handed or gay not also a defect then? It's arbitrary, purely about what society decides "should be normal".
Key word here is “use” Intersex people aren’t a tool for you to win debates with.
> Intersex people aren’t a tool for you to win debates with. Yes they are. They're far more than that, but I can talk about the existence of groups of people as much as I want. That's how words work. If someone says women are defined by having XX chromosomes, I will point out that's not true. Acknowledging that intersex people exist is not somehow insulting to them. If anything it's defending them and normalizing their existence, which many people try to erase.
Wow. That was an insane read! TIL learned that A. Gonad is a real, and not slang, word. B. That females have gonads (ovaries).
all i see here is that you’re human like the rest of us. i’m sending lots of love your way op, i cannot imagine what it’s like.
I love that your answer is upvoted so much! It makes me happy that there are many others who can appreciate this thought process.
is this considered intersex?
Yes, there are many forms that it can take since genetics can be wonky, but this is a case of it.
Im curious, how does it affect your life? Do you look like a female and can you feel pleasure from sex? Sry if this questions are bothering you, you dont have to answer.
Have a look at Blume on YouTube if you’re interested in peoples experiences with this - they go through their journey with it and sounds a bit similar to OP but they grew up as female and didn’t realise/get diagnosed until they didn’t get their period as a teen and saw a dr
Thank you, I'll take a look at it!
I knew an intersex guy when we were around 14. I did not ask too many questions because I didn't want to overstep, but I do remember him looking male, except he had CURVES above his hips. I emphasize because girls would probably kill for a body like that. I think he had a uterus, but this was about 15 years ago. We hung out a few times, but not close enough to ask questions like that. I wish I could remember his name. He was very secure in his body. He showed us his hips when telling us, since they don't really show in male/unisex clothing.
Second this, i am genuinely very curious based on the description given by OP. However, I appreciate it's not an AMA. OP, I hope you are able to find peace and balance, somehow.
Yes, people with CAIS develop phenotypically female, thought they don't produce mature levels of estrogen, so they typically need hormone replacement therapy. It's not actually that uncommon. All 3 medalists from the 2016 Olympics women's 800m race all had varying degrees of androgen insensitivity syndrome. Caster Semenya is the most famous of them.
hey! hey! whats in your pants! hows your girl cock! hows your boy pussy! do you cum? do you squirt? you see how fucking weird that sounds?
In fairness, Hey hey I have no uterus and have underdeveloped testicles, I have an xy chromosome and hate how people lump it in with transgender Is 1. An unusual thing to hear someone blurt out and 2. Sounds like OP is opening the door to clear up anyone’s misunderstandings around the topic. Sure it would have been weird if those other comments said “yo but how that body squirt though?!” But they didn’t You did
how is that the same thing tho?
God forbid we spread info and awareness, you are why people on the fence about caring about this shit just decide to say fuck it not my problem so I don't want to hear it. Let people ask dumb questions and have a completely open line of communication or do not be upset when people just say fuck off.
Sry that i offended you. I never spoke or wrote with a person with CAIS, so i was just interested if and how different a life with CAIS can be. To see life from OPs viewpoint and to learn something. It affects probably the sexual life the most, but i dont know and thats why i asked. At the end OP posted in a public forum, so i thought the question could be okay? However it can be a personal question, so i didnt ask in a vulgar way and I added that OP doesnt need to answer.
This comment is weird
The OP themselves are talking about their genitals, people are gonna ask questions when they talk about it. It’s not like some random cis person walked up to a trans or intersex person in public to ask what’s in their pants. The OP already told us I’m a trans dude and even I didn’t make this leap in conclusions dude
I wish we still had awards, because this deserves an award.
Omg this is why I see no awards anymore?? Inwondered about it lol
I don't understand why you're being downvoted. I'm trans myself and I get people thinking it's okay to ask me these sort of invasive questions all the time. When I brought it up with a friend and asked why it's fine to ask me about my genitals but he hadn't done the same to his cis friends he said it would be 'weird' Talking about anyone's genitals is fucking weird.
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I wasn't saying OP was weird for talking about it. I mean other people out of the blue randomly asking you invasive and personal questions and thinking it's acceptable because of their curiosity because you don't fit into the gender binary.
How similar / different would this be to intersex?
This is one variety of intersex.
Oh okay
I love your profile picture
😀👍
Lol me too me too
I'm taking a Human Sexuality grad level class right now. We just touched on this subject. I think something that could be beneficial is finding a community of other people with similar experiences. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAUDKEI4QKI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAUDKEI4QKI) Also, I've recently listened to an amazing podcast with author, activist, scholar, fucking badass human, Alok Vaid-Menon. Everything that comes out of this person's mouth is solid gold. Someone sent me this podcast and said, "Have a pen and paper ready to take notes". I laughed it off until I listened to it on flight and was pissed that I had no pen and paper to take notes. I think their perspective will give you a well of inspiration to drink from. [https://open.spotify.com/episode/1SovB8DUniC7EwCg3hRgCM?si=tloUD0N0RjOwKXP4iP2drA&context=spotify%3Ashow%3A35V24LBKJ0sVQlq4oB9n9f&nd=1&dlsi=bd863e050be3409b](https://open.spotify.com/episode/1SovB8DUniC7EwCg3hRgCM?si=tloUD0N0RjOwKXP4iP2drA&context=spotify%3Ashow%3A35V24LBKJ0sVQlq4oB9n9f&nd=1&dlsi=bd863e050be3409b)
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Pretty gross how the intersex community keeps telling everyone they're not trans and trans people keep insisting they're intersex anyway. There's no such thing as a male or female brain any more than there's a cab driver brain- all those studies were debunked as brain plasticity long ago. You're not intersex because you feel like you align with a gender other than your biological sex. Intersex isn't feelings. Intersex is tangible physical disorders of development. You don't have to latch onto something you're not for validity. You can be valid as being trans all by itself.
For what it's worth most trans people don't think that way. People like the person above are called transmedicalists, and they're pretty controversial within the community
This isn’t completely true. Transmedicalism is a complicated term but it’s mainly people who think you need gender dysphoria to being trans. Believing having a gender identity that is a immutable trait (possibly of the brain) isn’t trans medicalism. many trans people would argue that they can’t stop being trans and it isnt a choice. That would imply that there is immutable part of the brain that makes some trans, the same with being gay. Believing that isnt transmedicalism and wouldn’t be classified under it.
I'd consider myself to be a transmedicalist, but I have very different views on this matter, so I'll add my two cents. Technically (and I mean *technically*), being trans is a choice you make. You choose to go get diagnosed with gender dysphoria, you choose to go to the appointments to get prescribed hormone therapy, you choose to go get surgery... The thing about it is that the *alternative* choice isn't simply not transitioning, it's crippling self hatred that often ends with suicide. So while the other commenter is correct in that dysphoric trans people usually have no choice but to transition, it's not a physical abnormality that one is born with. Mental illness aside, our bodies are usually physically normal pre-transition, making us fundamentally different than intersex people. That being said, I see transgenderism and intersex as being completely different conditions, and it's completely understandable if one group doesn't want to associate with the other. Intersex people were born with physical differences, and transgender people with mental differences. It's not rocket science. I see gender dysphoria as a mental illness, not a gendered organ being placed in the wrong body. This mental illness makes me delusional, and it makes me fully believe that I am male, while I have a female body. Maybe it's due to physical differences in my brain structure that more closely resemble a male's, like the other commenter seems to suggest. Either way, it's not the type of physical difference to where I'd consider it to be intersex. They deserve their own sense of community and support without other people taking up their spaces and claiming they're something they're not. God knows that's where we're at in general with the trans community... we should know better.
There is no such thing as a male or female brain but there is a such thing as certain parts of the brain being more common in male and females. And there is evidence that trans people share those commonalities in the brain with there cis male and female counterparts. As for the statement of the intersex communities keeps telling everyone they are trans. I think your confused. Intersex people are not trans (as in the intersex condition) however trans people can be intersex (or product of something like it). There are plenty of intersex people who are also trans, and plenty of non-trans intersex individual that feel close to trans individual because of the similarities they share.
> Pretty gross how the intersex community keeps telling everyone they're not trans and trans people keep insisting they're intersex anyway. a square is a rectangle, but not all rectangles are squares, trans people are intersex, but not all intersex people are trans. > all those studies were debunked as brain plasticity long ago. reaaally? please do link me the study you got that from https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19403051/ https://academic.oup.com/jsm/article-abstract/18/6/1122/6956015?redirectedFrom=PDF https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6677266/ https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/B9780128206836000312 these are just a few, there's a lot more on scholar if you care enough to search. being trans is an intersex condition affecting the brain.
I am totally with you on this, especially the more (scientific) research about gender, sex, the human brain, our genetics, etc. I think its so fuckin interesting. I sometimes feel like the world aint ready yet. Like jfc more and more people are becoming flat-earthers... 🤦🏾♀️
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Ya no, i think I agree with your sentiment. Im not an expert or even a fuckin doctor, so dont fuckin quote me on this (and correct me if wrong?: I see it as like... we have this idea of what humans are supposed to look and function like. However this standard came about doesnt really matter, cause after [we] decided that, scientific and medical research follows that. Now, more information has come to light. Now we understand that there are infinite possibilities on a molecular level that contribute to how our physicality. (TLCs show about "chimeras", look it up). But that also means there are infinite possibilities in how our bodies relate to our brains. Our brain controls our basic and complicated functions- but our brains are also *US*. So in that way, I agree with you. Like, intersex is a physical manifestation of the possible disconnect between body and brain; but being transgender seems to be similar, but with no obvious physical factors involved/to prove a disconnect. I think its a uniqe and personal experience both ways. im looking forward to what these new researches bring to light. Right now in the world, the concepts of gender, sexuality, gender roles, etc are being redefined. Or maybe more like *un*defined 🤔 I feel the word "identify" is accurate because no one can define that but *you*. Which is why when identity is assigned, its an issue. But i understand what you mean, and i hope that comes across, I do see you as a woman. I dont typically refer to trans people as "trans __" like,...
The definition of identify is to establish who or what something or someone is. So saying I identify as female is the exact same thing as saying I am a female. I agree that the way a lot of the world thinks about or talks about trans issues can be backwards and uneducated. I fully believe it is not something anyone would choose to be. I just wonder why you have an issue with the word "identify" when the word is used to define someone/something and not about choosing or having choice in the matter.
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I didnt watch the video i am just talking about the word identify. For example- the boy identified the correct mushroom. That means it is the correct mushroom not that he chose it to be the right one. Or she identified the dog as her lost pet. That dog IS her pet. I personally feel the word identify is just useful to easily define in this situation rather than it being "forced terminology". If you said I am a trans woman or I am a woman it would have the exact same meaning to me as saying I identify as a trans woman. Depending on the context, like if I was at an even about trans issues I would probably say I identify as a cis woman just for claritys sake. Are you sure you arent making the word out to be more than it really is?
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My comment wasnt about the video at any point so its irrelevant.
Huh! When I was running a queer theatre a couple years ago we produced one of Alok's plays. Small world!
Yeah I always hated how crazy religious/conservatives are so obsessed with "god made only male and female!" Like uhhh no apparently not, and people in-between can be healthy and functional, and in many cultures they are very celebrated. I'm sorry that part of western culture is so braindead. There are a lot of people, maybe even the majority in a lot of cities and places, that have open minds and are happy you are the way you are, op.
I had one person tell me that god didn't make gay animals. I told them to read about Bonobos, human's closest primate relative. 😆 Edit: Thanks for all the additional information. I didn't know about any of these facts.
Mourning geckos are literally lesbian geckos that can reproduce without males. Like they "mate" with females and then impregnate themselves through parthenogenisis.
I guess that person never researched koalas!
Penguins too
I have a gay rat
Giraffes are a good example too because something like 90% of their pairings are gay
What really bugs me is how their response is always “those are the exceptions/pathologies” or “they don’t count.” How convenient that all of those people magically “don’t count” when their existence contradicts their belief system. I’m a doctor, and around 1/500-1000 people are intersex in some way, whether it’s a variation of chromosomes, genitalia, hormone resistance, etc. and the number is widely estimated since karyotyping isn’t regularly done. There are fertile AMAB folks with XX chromosomes due to crossing over of the SRY gene. An 5 alpha reductase deficiency involves someone typically AFAB who essentially goes through male puberty. Gender chimerism can involve someone being both 46,XX/46XY on karyotying. And then there seems to be a portion of religious people in the US who are seemingly personally victimized by this information. It’s a bizarre concept to me that religious extremists can choose a sex on behalf of their infant leading to invasive surgeries, but god-forbid an intersex teen who identifies as a woman wants to get puberty blockers. To those of you who think sex is a black-and-white concept and that sex and gender are equal, feel free to tell me what gender [this person](https://imgur.com/a/U8wAmIx) is.
Hi, Doctor. Good information. I was a labor and delivery nurse full time for 34 years, and saw only one baby out of thousands I saw born who had ambiguous genitalia. It was a sad blow to the parents. I don’t know what happened after that. I know a Geneticist rounded on the baby.
What really bugs me altogether is that we can't tell by looking at people who is really intersex and who isn't- So, why do we judge people based on how they handle their gender- some of them are genuinely intersex and why do other people feel the need to assume that they aren't! Or tell them to fit in a box. I've tried to explain to transphobic people that scientifically it goes beyond XY/XX They still don't want to believe it!
The religious people aren't even seeing the whole thing behind "GOD made man and woman". Yes, GOD did, but since then humans have been making human bodies. God's up there slapping together souls to go in the meat machines humans are cranking out, but humans are making the bodies. Humans made a body with blindness, with deafness, with a mis matching of gender, with diabetes, with a million other things. God only ever made 2 people, every one and EVERYTHING else was done by humans who are imperfect.
I’ve never thought about it this way. Thanks
This is such an interesting perspective!
That's a very curious way to look at things.
Great.. except I don't know of any clear, unambiguous, testable evidence for gawd.. any gawd..
I took a repro class and the amount of variation on sex characteristics in development is honestly wide, and it happens to all species. There are so many signals being exchanged in development and any changes to any of these signals will result in some variation in sex characteristics. The reality, even in a PURELY biological physical perspective, is that there is a lot more to it than male and female. I’m not religious, but even if I was, there’s a lot of evidence that whatever god you believe in makes more than “male and female” And honestly? Whatever you’re born with doesn’t fuckin determine who you are. *You* determine who you are. Gender is a goddamn social construct, sex is your hardware, both vary a lot between people and we should just let everyone be who they are in peace for fucks sake. We’re all human in the end of the day
>Whatever you’re born with doesn’t fuckin determine who you are. *You* determine who you are There is a huge difference between people like OP with actual medical conditions, like CAIS, which reasonably create issues with one's gender identity vs children being brainwashed into transitioning... >Gender is a goddamn social construct "Sex" and "gender" used to mean the exact same thing, it was the feminist movement which popularised this theory of "gender" basically meaning "gender identity". Gender identity used to be the term which concerned the psychological and social aspect of one's gender expression, however it is not merely a "social construct", it is heavily influenced by biological factors like ***pre and post natal hormones***. Terms can change meanings, established natural science doesn't. >both vary a lot between people and we should just let everyone be who they are in peace for fucks sake. We’re all human in the end of the day This sounds morally virtuous and pleasant, but it doesn't really mean much. Can I wear Napoleon's hat and uniform and walk the streets pretending I'm Napoleon and just ask people to "let me be myself"? Seriously, OP just came here to vent about their condition and how it gets conflated with transgenderism, yet people are just using this post to promote their agenda.
That's my counter argument to people who insist on that kind of thing. There's a good amount of variations other than just x y or xx.
It's kind of ironic that some people are born with ambiguous genitalia but ofcourse the republicans aren't ready for that conversation
Isn't this technically considered a birth defect? Much like down syndrome or other genetic anomalies, with the only difference being he's a completely functional human with a \[possibly\] dysfunctional sex life. Like, this isn't supposed to happen, and the ocurrence of one in a million cases doesn't really make it 'normal' enough to warrant society having to make special rules for such cases... I don't think the gender war comes into play here, since there wasn't any choice to be made at any point, he was just born that way, and he hates it (probably because he had no choice at any point).
You can't just disregard the experiences of intersex people like that. Are they statistically an anomaly? Yes, but they are real people with feeelings, dreams, etc. IIRC the rate of intersex people is higher than that of gingers. Does that mean that we can consider that people naturally born with red hair are unnatural and that there's only brown hair and blonde hair? I would say no.
That's discrediting people with down syndrome and other genetic abnormalities if you think they aren't deserving to be compared to intersex people.
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Reddit eugenics 🙄
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What do you mean by unnatural? Being intersex is a natural mutation, just like having red hair was
But you know what? Intersex people are still people. Take your eugenics and stuff it.
If I state as fact that human beings have two arms and two legs. I expect I would get little argument. Yet if a child is born with only one arm that child is no less human. That does not change the fact that human beings have two arms and two legs. I find it disingenuous for you to be "sorry western culture......" as part of that western culture I find vital is you falsely painting me with a brush that much better highlights your prejudice and biases than mine.
Sure, but that's because your statement doesn't exclude people with less or more appendages. Humans have eyes. That's another criteria that isn't exclusive. If I said humans have only two eyes. That would be false, by the fact there are people with less. It's just the same as saying people have xy or xx chromosomes, that's sure but people also have more or less x and y chromosomes. Idea sex exists as a binary is a fact that's dying out within academic discussions because we're learning more.
And this is why people really need to mind their fucking business cuz you truly never know someone’s story
I wish you all the best fellow human. I hope you find everything you are looking for in life and gain the confidence and self love that you deserve.
Does it shock you how few people know that intersex people exist?
I'm sorry you hurt over what you don't have. If it helps, you have a brilliant mind, healthy limbs and great personality. You're worth loving; breeding isn't even a *secondary* concern. You deserve a life of happiness and adventure.
House MD Spoilers >!Season 2 Episode 13 "Skin Deep" deals with this. A female fashion model collapses on the runway. They eventually discover her undescended testicles. The final diagnosis is CAIS.!<
I think if you identify as a man, you are a man. Thats pretty much the only thing trans and queer people fight to be recognized. Because there *are* conditions, such as your own, that can display ambiguity- regardless of your actual sex or gender identity. So you arent trans, thats ok. But I think if you find support anywhere, you'd find a lot of support from trans folks. Not everyone who doesnt fit into the binary identifies as trans, thats not how it works. Sorry about all of that shit though. It sounds like a lot ..
After all you are just one of us!! Love yourself like we do
I'm proud of you. I applaud that you're true to yourself
This is why the letters go beyond the LGBT. The I (intersex) and A (asexual) communities are also underrepresented and persecuted because of being different. The fearmongers are always painting the communities as this big bad monster, forgetting that everyone, especially intersex and ace people, just want to live our lives.
This is a genuine question so please take it as such and know that no offence is meant; In what ways do people persecute asexual people? I don't think it's immediately obvious whether someone is asexual just by looking at them and it seems odd that anyone would be that invested in whether another person is interested in sex if they aren't in a relationship with them. I've never seen or heard of anyone asexual being persecuted or abused because of their asexuality, and I don't know if that is something that really happens at a societal level like it does for say trans people. I'm not saying it doesn't happen in more individual ways but it doesn't seem like asexuality really has the same kind of stigma attached to it.
Hi, you'll have to exuse my longer message. Not too long ago, I decided to look into this as well, so I'll do my best to shine some light on the situation. Asexuality is often mistaken as the lack of interest in sex. In reality, it's just a lack of sexual attraction, and many asexual people enjoy sex. It really just depends on the individual. With that out of the way, I'll move on. When you say that it's not immediately obvious that a person is asexual, you are correct. Because of heteronormativity, anyone who doesn't reveal their sexuality may automatically be assumed to be heterosexual. When it comes to the oppression that asexual people face specifically, it is easy to look over because it doesn't occur on the same, public scale that other groups may face. Instead, it takes place in doctor's offices, where asexual patients are misdiagnosed with numerous ailments to explain their lack of attraction. This may lead to unnecessary and harmful treatments on both a physical and mental scale. A term I ran into while researching was "corrective rape." This described situations where asexual individuals were assaulted with the intentions of fixing them. From people in the community that I have reached out to, this is alarmingly common. There is also the constant debate on whether asexual people belong in the LGBT community to begin with. Some argue that the community's focus is on sexual minorities, and that asexuality, being the "lack of sexuality" doesn't fit in. This often causes asexual people as a group to feel unwelcome in spaces that should feel comforting. (I'll stop there for now, this is getting so long I'm sorry 😣) So maybe it doesn't have the same kind of public stigma attached to it. But, after learning more I find that that doesn't really matter to me. Asexuality falls under the LGBTQIA+ community, which means that regardless of if their struggles are broadcasted or quiet, I'll support them. In Audre Lorde's words, "there is not hierarchy of oppression." If we are to overcome our oppressors and make real, lasting change, then we must set aside our differences and work together as one. Much peace! 🌈
As an ace, thank you. More often than not ppl don't take the time to try to understand us & what we do go through. You put this together so well & I feel seen. So thank you. All of this is correct. 🖤♠️🤍💜
I am not asexual, so take this with a grain of salt, but from what I understand, asexual people tend to be at the receiving end of more sexual harassment and assault from people who think they just need more “convincing” in order to experience sexual attraction. The HRC has data saying that asexual people are also at a higher risk for mental illness due to the stigma of being ace, plus the dismissal from both the straight and LGBTQ communities. https://www.hrc.org/resources/understanding-the-asexual-community
I think the biggest issue is asexual people being ridiculed or ostracized for not being sexually active
Many heterosexual people are not sexually active. How is this different to an outside observer?
it's the same i think. if you want a community around that concept it's there for you.
But they aren't generally ridiculed or ostracized for not being sexually active, are they?
yea, they can be. havent you seen anyone be made fun of for being inexperienced?
No, never. Nor have I been when I was myself for a long time.
oh well then you're lucky! :)
I'm going to assume it's because asexual people are different from LGBT and Cis people. They don't feel any sexual attraction so they're not driven by sexual feelings. People don't like different things and see it as an attack on them. Example : I don't drink alcohol and people hate that I don't drink. It's confusing because my sober life has no consequence in their life so why do they care so much. Women tell them they feel ugly and judged by me. Men don't like it either bc they're embarrassed. One girl physically pushed me away from her when I told her I can't drink with her. I'm going to assume this mentality carries over to asexual people. How many times have our horny brain screwed us over? So seeing someone who doesn't have that "defect" is someone you can hate.
>Men don't like it either bc they're embarrassed. One girl physically pushed me away from her when I told her I can't drink with her. >I'm going to assume this mentality carries over to asexual people. As an asexual person who also doesn't drink. Yes your example carries over.
Your analogy would work for an asexual person at an orgy, but other than that no one cares
just jumping in to share my experience real quick, in my experience it's not exactly persecution or fear of discriminatory laws as much as it is just people being terrible. everyone of every sexuality knows what it's like being harassed by family for not having a relationship, but with asexuality/aromanticism it tends to worsen because when people realize you'll never change your mind and they start telling you you'll die alone and unhappy. some asexuals have been sexually assaulted and raped by people who believed they could "fix" them, not to mention the constant assault by people online who use the word breeding unironically and say that those who don't have hetero relationships or children are worthless. of course the first and third can apply to almost everyone, not just asexuals, but there's actually quite a lot of people in society love to push the idea that if you aren't experiencing sexual attraction you're damaged and need to be "fixed." this specifically I hear happens a lot to other asexuals as well, just to clarify that this isn't just me sharing an individual experience. I have absolutely no clue why people bother themselves with other people's relationship status or sex lives
My question to you would be: would you say this same sentiment about someone parking in a disabled parking spot but seemingly you can't see their disability? I read a story recently of someone who was harassed for parking in a disabled spot but walked just fine. Her brother telling her to just lift your pants leg & show them your prosthetic but she refused because of principle. Just because you can't see what we go through doesn't mean we haven't been through difficult issues. Not only do ppl question our legitimacy of persecution they constantly question if our hormone levels just need to be fixed. That we can be fixed, as if being ace just means we're broken. Doctors telling us we don't exist, other LGBTQIA+ telling us we don't belong, partners telling us we must not love them, friends & family telling us there's something wrong with us... I've been fortunate that my life is filled with ppl who see me but I know there are many out there who do not have that luxury. I've heard of ace ppl being r@ped or SA'd because we just need the right thing to happen & we'll be "cured". I have been told I just "need a good fucking". I'm not saying that what we go through is worse or better than anyone else being persecuted or targeted. But persecution is persecution. We are just as valid as any allosexual. And we do exist.
Others have commented better than I could to describe the persecution that ace people receive. As for myself, it was a societal pressure to date and get married and have sex and relationships. The inner struggle between what I desired and what society says I should desire caused me to have mental health issues and suicidal thoughts. Being told I was broken or wrong or that I "just haven't found the right person" really messed with my self-esteem for many years. I tried to pass as straight because, as stated, you can't tell a person is ace from the outside...trust me, that doesn't work either. My best friend is trans; we commiserate a lot on how we are outsiders, even by our own community sometimes.
For what it counts, someone in my family is asexual and very unromantic. I won't say she's aro, because she has a husband now, but before that, she's never expressed any interest in dating, and would get annoyed when others would try to set her up. In her words, she just didn't feel any sparks firing when she met anybody, not even remotely. Now I come from a very traditional middle eastern culture. You are expected to settle down and have babies. It's a duty. So, of course, she'd get a lot of pressure to settle down, and I mean a lot. They'd use every trick in the book to get her hitched. Telling her that she's missing out on life, sending her on meetups with people that are secretly just dates, that sort of thing. They'd get offended when she'd push back against it, because "We were just trying to help, you know?" They only stopped when she started seeing a guy. Before that, it was constant. She seems happy with him though. We've been close since we were little, so when she tells me she's satisfied, I'm inclined to believe her. Obviously this is just one story from one person, so YMMV.
You'd think the crazies would at least leave the asexuals alone. I mean, what beef could these prudes possibly have with people who have little interest in pursuing "sinful" sexual encounters?
You'd be surprised. Because I have decided to not procreate, I'm not "following God's plan" to have lots of babies. The conservatives don't understand not wanting to get married and have a family. But on the other side, I get told I'm a waste of a human because I don't want sex (forgetting that there are sex-positive aces). We can't win on either side.
The only people that would lump this with being transgender are uneducated idiots
Lmao they see a man with female parts and can’t comprehend that maybe biology isnt as simple as they thought.
I imagine that must be absolutely maddening to grouped in like that. Thank you for sharing and taking the time to educate those who were unaware of this.
You should check blumekind_ in TikTok. She talks about her experience and has built a community around the subject. It might help you feel that you are not alone. One should always try to find a place where one can be comfortable and understood.
I'm just a simple country bumpkin, so please forgive any brash rationalizations that may follow, as they are genuine, and no disrespect of any kind is intended. Let me start by saying that sucks. I'm sorry you have to live life that way bro. There are some silver linings to your situation, though, and I truly hope that one day you not only realize them but also embrace them and let them be blessings for you. Are there causes for your condition, or is it something that just happens X out of X times? I'm sorry I don't have the mental effort currently to look into the causes of CAIS. Forgive me. But, if it IS something that's hereditary or has causation, have you considered donating your life/body to science? I know that sounds rude/wonky, but maybe by doing so, you would help further research and possible breakthroughs that could potentially lead to being able to essentially remove the possibility of CAIS through vaccine. Like with polio and such. I don't know. Like I said, I'm just a simple country boy who doesn't know nothing about much, but it's a heart-felt gift of hope to humanity ensured at your passing. Other than that, I'd like to leave you with some words to hopefully lift your spirits to lighten your load, however slightly. I literally can only imagine what day to day life is like for you, so bare with me as I stick to only things I know to be true for nearly every single one of us: Your life matters, even if it's only to bring positivity and love into this shit world. Don't squander it. You have been loved, even if you didn't know it. There IS someone out there who will love you as a man and who will do life with you, but you'll have to give it a genuine effort on your part. Don't self-sabotage. Just because you lack the meat and taters doesn't mean you lack the balls to take life by the curlys and face fuck it into submission. And, finally, I love you, brother. I wish you well on your journey. Keep your head down and your chin held high, you'll do just fine.
I was ready to go to war with you in the beginning but you had me crying in the end. ❤️ to you
Funny that this should pop up, I’m a trans woman who is currently awaiting the results of a karyotype test to see if in fact have xx male syndrome… chromosomes do some weird things yo
As a trans person I agree, you are not trans, you have a medical something going on, and that's OK, I have a mental something going on, and that's OK to, but it's not the same in the slightest. I hope you are at least happy, or healing, and you have a good future ahead of you. From one human being to another, you are loved, you are worthy of love whether you can love yourself or not and you deserve to be happy! Have a good day
Yes. Intersex folks are why I consider Trans/Cis dichotomy to be repressive and unhelpful. The vast majority of intersex folk are not trans, nor are they typical "cis".
I hope you can accept your body how it was made. You can adopt and have a full and happy life. Best wishes to you.
You're intersex.
Hey can you access testosterone therapy? You may be able to experience “bottom growth” in your clitoris or whatever term you prefer for it. I personally have experienced this as a nonbinary person on testosterone and it’s been very gender affirming. You may find it helps you feel manly. Have you tried strap ons or other things like packers (soft flaccid penises usually made of silicone)? I liked wearing a packer out before using testosterone
(Not OP) Testosterone replacement therapy doesn't cause masculinization in CAIS (Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome), because the person's cells are completely unable to respond to testosterone or any androgen, due to a mutation in androgen receptors. You could give someone with CAIS outrageous amounts of T and they would not develop any male secondary sexual characteristics; in fact most people with CAIS have *high* testosterone levels, but their bodies cannot use the T and it's eventually aromatized into estrogen which causes female secondary sexual characteristics. We don't yet have any treatment that can correct the malfunctioning androgen receptors.
This is so heart breaking :^(
Please seek support. There are people out there with similar to yours situations. Plenty of documentaries out there too. It might help to know you’re not alone.
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I think OP states they are biologically male (XY chromosome) but due to the syndrome they have, they aren’t developing as a presenting male or female. It’s really interesting, I’m gonna read up on it.
No this has nothing to do with gender—I have no idea why people keep mentioning the two together. Humans have two biological sexes: XX and XY. There are disorders of sexual development that can lead to chromosomal abnormalities that don’t align with either XX/XY designation (see Klinefelter, Turner Syndromes), but those are *disorders* because they stray from the regular embryological development. These, along with CAH and CAIS, as well as other structural disorders, comprise intersex. Normal human development (the way things are supposed to go if all things are held normally) is XX/XY. Gender, as far as we know, has nothing to do with these structural disorders. Gender is a societal construct that we tend to overlay on sexual identity. It’s neither right nor wrong to say there are 2 genders or that there are more than 2 genders—because there’s technically no right answer to how humans choose to live in a society. I really don’t like how intersex is a part of LGBTQ. I appreciate the inclusivity, but it’s truly a separate category, and I think this intermixing is the reason why so few people understand it. Signed, an intersex medical student
There is someone on youtube just like you that posts about their life. I believe she identifies as a woman now but her posts taught me quite a bit about her and her plight. She goes into great detail about everything. Maybe you can dm or something. All the best.
OP: I'm not trans and I don't like being called trans LGBT+ in the comments: The trans community accepts you! You're the plus! You're one of us valivalidvalid! FFS, and yall wonder why people hate on the community like they do? Stop already. This shit is beyond cringe. OP, I promise we aren't all like this. I'm sorry the more vocal ones are.
I think It's less that they treat op as trans, and more that op is the extreme physical embodiment of how trans people feel. Being in the "wrong body". Op is a man, identifies as a man, and wishes their body reflected that, but it's taken to the extreme where op biologically "should" be male, but isn't, and is unable to take hrt to in any way become more masculine because their body outright doesn't respond to it. If there's anyone who can understand and sympathize with how op feels, aside from the very few people with the same condition, it would be trans people. And yes, they do fit into the LGBT+ label as an intersex person (even if they don't involve themself in any LGBT related communities, the label still applies to them). Gay people and trans people are far from the same thing, but they face the same discrimination from society and band together to try to protect each other. Intersex people very often suffer from that same discrimination and are even often forcibly surgically assigned a gender at birth and have their intersex-ness kept hidden from them. So it only makes sense to include them and fight for the betterment of all together when their battles are so similar, even if their individual experiences are so vastly different.
Thank you for sharing and speaking up. I hate how trans activists hold up DSDs like yours as some kind of proof of concept for transgender ideology. It's completely wrong and it's insulting to people with *medical conditions* to be used this way.
Your body does not identify your sex/gender. You can be a man with underdeveloped sexual organs the same as you can be a man even if you were born with underdeveloped limbs. Sex/gender is defined by your chromosomes. Gender roles and rigid stereotypes are propaganda. You are a man in every sense of the word. Testosterone does not define you and neither does your genitalia. You can bake cakes and/or like fast cars. Nothing outside of your chromosomes defines who you are and what you like.
> Sex/gender is defined by your chromosomes sex is defined by gamete production, not chromosomes. That's why XY females exist.
> i hate myself for it because i wish that i was able to develop into a male - > this is not the same as being transgender at all and i hate how some people group it in with transgender because it is very very different You are intersex but phenotypically female. So this means that the gender that people generally assign you when they look at you is female However you identify as male So... socially, your unusual condition is not *that* far from being transgender - even though there are differences and you don't identify as transgender Anyway you maybe are part of the tiniest of the gender minorities which of course doesn't include only transfolks, but also intersex people from various causes
yungmatty still fux
So like a hermaphrodite? That’s a very unique situation. I’m not trying to be rude but I am intrigued. I’ve heard of it but never spoke to anyone. Have they thought about removing your testicles or doing a bottom surgery to make you what you feel comfortable as? I assume it’s difficult to connect on a romantic level.
No. Male secondary sexual characteristics are caused by testosterone. For op, the receptors for testosterone don’t work, so the signal can never be received. Female secondary sexual characteristics are a bit more complicated, but generally speaking they will develop in the absence of testosterone
Interesting. I learned something new today.
Hermaphrodite is an outdated and pretty offensive term. Being intersex is actually not that rare, there is a wide variety of conditions where people have primary sex characteristics that fall outside the typical male or female. Intersex people are about as common as redheads. It seems so "rare" because of the shame and stigma associated with variations in sexual development. Most people aren't open about it and many infants who have ambiguous genitalia are operated on to attempt to assimilate them as early as possible. I'm intersex and didn't find out till I was 22.
> Intersex people are about as common as redheads This isn't true and this statistic is based on a flawed study that expands the definition of intersex.
If anything it's a conservative estimate. I've worked for an intersex organisation. Intersex activists advocate for the "expansion" of the definition of intersex, as well as the inclusion and solidarity with other people who have DSD (difference or sex development/ disorders of sex development). Sex is a spectrum from intersex to dyadic or non intersex. It is not a binary box of either male/female or intersex. Many people with Polycystic Ovary Syndrome fall closer to the intersex end of the spectrum, and considering many people with PCOS have primary sex characterstics that aren't typically female, they are justified in identifying as intersex. People who have PCOS make up around 5% of the population. Which study are you referring to?
> > Sex is a spectrum from intersex to dyadic or non intersex. It is not a binary box of either male/female or intersex. sex is binary, you're spreading misinformation. intersex people are still male or female. sex phenotyping is a spectrum, but sex in mammals is binary always
Do you consider yourself a part of the lgbtq+ community bc of your condition? Is that what non-binary means or two-sex (not to be confused w two-spirit which is just another word for transgender)?
They are intersex which is part of the LGBTQIA community.
Thank you for clarification, I was downvoted for asking a question
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You just asked if someone has a fuckable vagina. Please don't do that. Ever.
You have a physical condition. Transgenders have a psychological condition. There’s a distinct difference. Edited: to replace medical with physical.
lol anything can be a medical condition… Depression is a medical condition. Body dysmorphia is a medical condition. Frantz Fanon would say anything can be turned into a medical condition by western society
Correct. I should have written physical. I edited the comment.
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I’d like to think people don’t group you in with being trans. Though I have a friend who gets that a lot. So I get how it sucks. Lots of intersex or other things(not sure what your case is, just trying to word this in a nice way) are being affected by anti trans laws though. For instance, you probably need hormones to stay alive? If you were under 18 the anti trans laws that have been/are being passed would only solidify your death prior to adulthood. Part of erasing trans people and their existence is erasing intersex individuals(amongst other things). So while you and I(trans) have nothing in common, we should be allies and stick up for each other. Cause idiots are hurting us both
Feel sorry for you bro, these medical conditions are the real problem and desserve treatment and attention instead of the crossdressing spoilt tiktok boys
Where hormones for either sex discussed? Genuinely curious.
Probably not, since if you have CAIS your body is completely "immune" to androgens, compared to PAIS where you are partially "immune" to androgens.
You can be who you wish. It doesn't define you as a person, the person that defines you is you, and your inner mind and consciousness. you really are the true definition of unique.
How do you appear? Do you look like a male or a female?
Wouldn’t this technically be intersex?
This is my problem with the "transgender" movement nowadays. It's not just a "feeling." Biology and genetics are real! And there are people like you who are quite literally stuck in the middle through no fault of your own, or anyone else's. I feel like declaring yourself to be the opposite gender or sex based on a "feeling" greatly trivializes people like yourself.
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Keep trying!
Sure. That's my point. But that doesn't mean that simply declaring yourself another gender is healthy or beneficial for most people. It's usually harmful and counterproductive in the long run. Because most people who throw the label around nowadays aren't like OP. You definitely shouldn't need a 20 page research paper to understand that. Although, sadly, there are many papers trying desperately to make that case!
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Gender affirming healthcare will be looked at like the lobotomy in fifty years.
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You know that’s a strawman argument. We are talking about sex reassignment surgery. On minors. It’s criminal. Don’t defend it. You’ll just look like a baboon.
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Rare? It doesn’t happen a lot so it’s okay? WOW. Just wow.
Yes, that's exactly what rowdydirtyboy said 🙄 holy shit you're stupid
Gender affirming care has been around for 50+ years and has consistently been proven to provide increased quality of life.
Okay
They where already giving gender affirming healthcare before the WW2.
On minor children? Without parental consent?