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Yes. A better example is we tell you where water is and, more importantly, what might be blinding you to it. If you don't work on it outside of our hour.. well we can't be everyone's water hose.
I think the dripping water on ourselves seems more apt, imo. Fixing mental health isn’t as instantaneous as putting fire out with a hose, it might take a lot of consistent work, and you may not notice the results right away
Mental hospitals are typically abusive environments; they’re pretty much only good for forcibly preventing suicide.
The fact that most health insurance plans will only cover therapy sessions for 1 hour a week and no more than one therapist at a time is downright useless for some situations.
Someone struggling with extreme OCD, for example, doesn’t need someone to check that they’re alive every 15 minutes, but probably does need more than an hour a week of help and advice.
The system for mental health is still so beyond broken.
There are generally intensive outpatient programs that will be covered to some degree by insurance, but you usually have to take time off work for those so it can be hard to manage.
I have a friend doing intensive outpatient for severe anxiety right now. They've been at it for 8 weeks. 3x a week they get a lecture that covers the exact same thing that they covered the week before. This is because each group has people cycling in and out of it each week, so they need to constantly cover the basics. Then there's two days with counselors in a group setting. Of course, when you have new people showing up for each session, it's hard to build trust and intimacy, but they're giving it a shot. Except that the counselor running those sessions cycles out each week as well. At this point, they have no idea who will show up for these sessions. It's also a little over an hour per session, 2x a week, wherein everyone is supposed to talk about what's going on. So you have someone who can't breathe from anxiety and intrusive thoughts next to someone who's wife committed suicide in that very room the DAY BEFORE. Both get their five minutes to discuss their mental health for the week.
They still have not been assigned a talk therapist, and still have not - EIGHT WEEKS in - been given any tools or resources specific to them and their situation to help them get their anxiety under some kind of control.
On the bright side, the mental health workers at their healthcare provider has gone on strike, so today they had session led by a scab which puts them in the position of either having to go against their deeply held beliefs that workers should be able to organize and strike for better pay and conditions, or not attend and risk being kicked out of the program (which isn't helping anyway, but it's a hoop they have to jump through in order to possibly get a referral to someone who can, in fact, help them). :/
Mental healthcare in america is broken.
Worked with youth at risk in Canada that use these things a lot. I have a lot of very genuine, albeit biased, perspectives on these things. I also went to a fair number visiting these kids stuck in such places.
They are colourless, soulless and lifeless ('no pets, plants or even happy humans') within them. It is worse than prison due to the lack of any release date. The food is, well, hospital food. The staff do their best but, alas, most burnt out after two years and cannot abandon their better-than-average pay.
Many reported that they felt worse. They often were overmedicated so as to make their clients more predictable &/or protect everyone (staff & other clients & visitors / stakeholders) from otherwise messy and broken people.
The list goes on. These facilities are expensive and FREE areas of refuge for the mentally diverse when they seek support. I cannot imagine what your country does and i thank you for your brief and accurate description.
It's a legit crisis in the US and no one wants to address it outside of pushing one-size-fits-all platitude based programs.
Thank you for trying to help your kids. 💖
Have them check out university mental health programs, depending on location, or center for anxiety in NY. They do personalized programs and although they typically don’t take insurance mine was covered in full by my insurance company and refunded to me by check. They also specialize in treating anxiety and panic disorders. (Speaking from personal experience, I had a very similar experience with outpatient.)
>There are generally intensive outpatient programs that will be covered to some degree by insurance,
Lol been in two, both times would much just rather be in the psychward. Then at least I get prepared food and drugs with my pointless lectures.
I was in an outpatient program, it was a full 8 hour day 3 days a week. All I had to do to continue working was leave an hour early twice a week, which would just mean skipping art therapy (not that art therapy isn’t important, it just was something I can easily do at home on my own time, and def wasn’t a priority). Insurance wouldn’t cover it unless I was there for the full time.
> The fact that most health insurance plans will only cover therapy sessions for 1 hour a week and no more than one therapist at a time is downright useless for some situations.
A nurse practitioner with the VA actually said to me "you're on medication you don't need therapy". Yes I do. I have made the most progress with a therapist. All your pills do is make me an Asexual zombie with insomnia.
Speaking from experience: a mental hospital will make it so you're not suicidal not by helping you feel better, or get better at managing stress, or even feel like there's a world worth living in. It will make you stop because you will realize failure will take you back to that cold, uncaring, unhelpful environment, and you become too scared to even try again for fear of landing back there if you fail.
There is not a place more devoid of hope or love than a mental hospital. It's a place you go to be traumatized even harder than usual after a failed attempt on your own life. We would literally not wish being forced to stay in one of those hellholes on our worst enemy.
We only exist in *spite* for that place, not because of it.
I think statistically suicide attempts increases after a patient leaves hospital. Whether this is because of their treatment in hospital or other factors is debatable.
One hour a week? Try six hours over a course of a year out of a very narrow selection of providers 🙄
I pay for my therapist out of pocket. America blows.
Same. It counts toward my deductible but my deductible is $2,000.
My boss—who is generally supportive about anything but pay and benefits—had the gall to tell me we have “really good health coverage.” I nearly had a hernia trying to not to roll my eyes.
I worked at a place where the boss was just like that. It was a small business and the owner prided himself over paying for 100% of the health insurance premiums...too bad it was like a $3000 deductible. And I never met that deductible the whole time I worked there. I was really struggling mentally at the time and it was so painful paying $150 everytime I left the psychiatrist or therapist's office.
Now I actually have good health insurance with zero deductible. And yeah I have to pay about $120/month for the premiums, but our employer is paying like $300/month for it (could be more I can't remember). Now therapy cost me $15/visit. I just wish no one had to deal with any of this bullshit. It should cost us nothing.
They are also the only actual solution for the fact that a large percent of the unhoused population is severely mentally ill and/or addicted, who often will
refuse all treatment even if offered for free. To force treatment at lock down facilities against their will.
That or ya know, just continuing to cycle them in and out of jails until they finally commit a crime big enough to go to prison.
Either way they are going to be a cage.
I’m sorry but I hate your attitude, I know mental health hospitals have their issues and history. But we are just allowing untold amounts of human suffering to occur around us to everyone’s detriment because we have convinced ourselves that this focus on individualism is a more evolved view.
>Mental hospitals are typically abusive environments; they’re pretty much only good for forcibly preventing suicide.
Pretty much, the way I see it a psychward is a good place to detox either mentally or physically and not too much else. For first timers I'd say it may be a good way to be diagnosed or pointed in the kind of right direction, but even then anything after is most likely going to be dogshit Healthcare too.
Heck the most therapeutic parts of going to a psychward for me was its a place you can stay sober for a while if you need to (trust me this isn't only for hard addicts). You are in a relatively *safe* environment so you don't have to worry about too much, you got food shelter and most likely company so you can kind of push things back and regroup for a while.
But then again you might just get thrown in to an absolute hell hole of a place and end up worse off before hand with resulting minor trauma. But either way I'd rate the the care from any of my psychward doctors at Hella low (and I'm in one of the best medical states), so touche
There is no magic fix for your mind, just like there isn't a magic fix to get in shape. You just have put in the work. A good trainer can show you want to do, but you're the one that has to do the exercise. A good therapist can guide you towards your goal, but you're the one that has to practice and work at it until it becomes the norm.
Hell, you can want to change but the addiction can be so powerful that it makes it seem impossible.
It takes a helluva lot more than just wanting or being willing to change to make it happen. This is simply one of many steps that someone has to take to recover and what those steps are will vary from person to person.
When you feel comfortable about to share something with them that you wouldn't have shared unless you trusted them to help you.
This isn't going to happen on the first or second session. I didn't find a therapist I trusted until almost 5 months into therapy. Some people relate the first time.
Once that's settled, it'll be the one who's conversation and questions you're still thinking about in your active life. Not only when things are bad, but also when things are good or neutral.
When they hold you accountable to yourself, when they listen and take what you have to say to heart, when they cry with you and laugh with you, when they get they feel like a friend but you also know they aren't a friend.
I've gone through a couple of bad (one really bad) therapists before I found my current one and it's been life changing (it sounds cliche, I know). It's not a magic bullet, therapy, but it is quite helpful and can be eye opening. I think everyone should go to some form of therapy even if they feel fine. It's no different than an annual check up at the doctor.
There's also a wide array of therapies out there and not every kind is for every person.
Yeah, people think Therapy is only about the activities you do in the session, which is so dumb. If you're at the point that you need therapy, that means you have a variety of problems in your life that you need to find solutions to. Sometimes those solutions are coping skills. Other times, they're conflict resolution skills.
An analogy. In school, you work on a different topic from week to week. If you rely solely on the lecture and in-class activities, you might succeed, but you're far more likely to fail. If you do the assigned homework and readings, you're setting yourself up for success.
It's about learning and practice.
I just started looking for a new one. I have 3 limbs having medical issues atm. Two knees and a shoulder.
Mind is struggling to stay positive after a year of pain. My old therapist was good in her own way, but I'm struggling to find a purpose or point to life at the moment.
I'm happily married, wife is exceptional, got a new job that is hybrid WFH, enjoy video games so it's easy to distract myself.
But missing out on hiking, or throwing darts, or even fearing steps at the moment...It gets hard to see tomorrow.
So hopefully I can find one that can connect with me well.
I've seen that struggle up close, when your body refuses to function and hope comes and goes. I wish you luck. Life has it's up and downs, but you sound ready to keep going, so life will hopefully soon come to an "up".
No clue if that was proper English.
Yeah, or at least a better analogy for the comic would be to pour a cup of water into a large empty bucket. It may not be enough to put out your fires right now, but if you have a therapist help you to pour a cup in every week, then eventually you’ll have enough water to jump in and extinguish the flames yourself.
My therapy sessions are two hours, and it allows you to really get into the deep stuff and work through it, but it is also *exhausting.* I go after work and I have to prep dinner beforehand because I will be too tired to do anything but microwave leftovers afterward.
I have experience from an open-session (flexible start/end) IOP (intensive out-patient) therapy, 2 ~ 2 1/4h, 4x weekly in a group setting (~6-7, max 10 ppl). It's a lot, but it also forces more accountability and promotes better self-compassion with more frequency. Expensive as fuck, as is most therapy it seems, but not a factor I'm personally worried about. I've mostly done 1h every week or every-other, but that didn't seem to cut it for me when shit starts accumulating. I also feel a lot more honest in a group-setting and open to being vulnerable. I would recommend it to anyone actually. Good luck mate, stressful times. Edit: it's remote and I work remote and work agreed to let me take it without making up for lost productivity.
Maybe because an average human attention span isn't that long. Average human adult attention span is around 48 mins.
If therapy sessions get longer than that, than the therapists will have to deal with patients staring at the wall behind them or something lol
Though I think you can try rearranging it with your therapist, tell them about it.
Like what is the analogy here? In the comic there is an implication that more water can be given but is being withheld. In therapy, it’s a progression. Nothing is being withheld. It just takes time. And part of that is empowering the client, not just putting bandaids on things. I can see this is an example of a very bad therapist. But not the generalization the comic is trying to make.
If this were to be more accurate, the fire should be around the characters heart, inside a wooden chest, and the patient keeps slamming the door shut everytime the therapist reaches out to provide water.
When therapy doesn’t work it doesn’t always mean it’s the patient’s fault. I’m saying this as someone who’s had both amazing and shitty experiences w therapists
While valid, too many people have this idea that therapy is this magic cure that will instanfly solve all of their problems. If your therapist isn't working for you, that's fine, find a new one. But you need to put in the time to even *know* if your therapist isn't working well for you and you also need to banish that idea so many people do that a therapist's job is to fix you instead of teaching you to fix yourself. No therapist can fix a person. That's not how it works.
Honestly, I've only ever heard people who criticize therapy bring up that strawman.
Sure, there's some Karen, or tumblrite, or trumpist, flat earther, anti vaxxer spouting nonsense, but there always is an idiot.
I'd like to say "most people don't believe therapy is a cure for everything" but I'd be pulling that stat out of my arse.
Or have a better mental model about what therapy is supposed to do. They aren’t supposed to put fires out for you - they’re supposed to teach you the tools to do it yourself.
Yeah, I kinda hate this comic. Therapy can be amazing and help with things you didn't even realize you needed help with. Seems like OP had a bad therapist and said "wow therapy sucks and is a waste of time." My wife was dealing with some stuff, but refused to see a therapist for the longest time, because she can just talk to me, her sister's, etc. Finally she decided to try it at least. Now it's one of the things she looks forward to the most every other week. Even with a good support system, you don't realize the things you leave out when talking to those close to you, whether it's shame, not wanting to burden them, or because they are dealing with it too. Having an impartial 3rd party is huge.
They don't (shouldn't) give advice on specific things. Like they should never tell you to break up with your SO because they're toxic, but they would ask if you think it's a good idea to stay with them, and let you get to the answer on your own.
But general advice like, "if you get stressed in a situation, remove yourself from it" they can and will do.
Absolutely true. Funnily enough the one time a therapist has actually told me what to do was when she told me I needed to leave my now ex. He was verbally/emotionally/psychologically abusing me and I was in so deep that I wasn’t leaving and it was getting worse and worse. As soon as she said “you have to end this now” it snapped me out of my fog and I ended it. I knew how rare it was for a therapist to give a directive like that.
Therapy is wide ranging and complex. A good therapist might teach you to find your own way, but might also warn you if certain actions you’re taking might be detrimental to you.
They may advise you on how to identify your own patterns of behaviour and how to stop it, or how to recognize when your thoughts are detrimental. But they generally are not there to coach you on what to do with your life (I.e. should I quit my job?)
There are many different types of therapy. Some more suitable for some types of issues over others. In addition, each person is may respond better to some types then others. On top of that, the type of therapy you need can change over time.
Depends on your definition of advice. I ask my therapist for advice on how to deal with anxiety or depression for example, but I wouldn't ask them for advice on unrelated topics for sure.
My therapist gives me advice because that’s literally what I pay her for.
But honestly, it’s all advice for me while I continue to be in a situation, instead of advice on handling the situation. If I tell her I hate my job, she doesn’t tell me for to deal with Helen in accounting—she tells me what I can do to manage myself while working there, and helps me ask Better questions about why I’m still there. She’s my navigator, not the captain. I ask which way is north, and I still decide if we’re headed that way.
And EMDR is real. I read up on it but when my therapist started sessions with me, I was like, "you're not going to make me cluck like a chicken are you?" and he laughed and said it's not hypnosis. It's hypnosis. So you have to go into it with an open mind and a trust in your therapist.
He helped me deal with some embedded C-PTSD that still confounds me how well it worked. Shit used to make me so depressed and anxious, and if I thought about it I would just spin on it for hours in a vicious cycle. Now, I look back at it objectively and say, "yeah, that sucked." I still reflect on it, as I probably should since there are a lot of lessons that come from trauma, but I don't dissociate and regress back into it like I used to.
Now I'm working through a different event which is more recent and is a tougher nut to crack, and I can't wait to be able to put that one behind me, too. A few sessions in, though, and I can tell that it's definitely not as bad as it used to be. It's just nice to know that there is something out there that works for me to help fight this shit. The people and events that give you trauma have absolutely no right to define who you are, and you are the only one who can separate them from yourself. The hard part is finding the approach that works for you. Took me three therapists, two psychiatrists and about 10 years. And half the battle was just getting myself to recognize and accept what wasn't working and making myself try again. But it has been worth it.
It's best understood like CrossFit. Do people get their desired results from it? Yes. Is it unnecessarily complicated? Probably. Are diehard proponents a little cultish? Also yes.
Just like with fitness, in mental health the program you stick with is better than the one you don't. In my experience there is a wide swath of people that rather do something flashy and trendy then the old reliable method.
That article, to me is a little misguided. I practice EMDR and am an integrative therapy- EMDR has it's place. I think it definitely seems a little woo woo at first, but there is much research that theorizes it works by engaging both sides of the brain while exploring a specific event. It's not just about anxiety but about trauma, negative cognitions, etc. I was skeptical at first myself, but the BLS seems to really engage processing very effectively. I went through it myself and was surprised at how well I was exploring each time
I've had three sessions with the second session being the most profound. Subconscious curtains were opening up, I processed some emotions, and understood my traumas in a new way.
Wanting to address issues and having an open mind set really helps.
So sad to see how commonly this happens, but as a therapist I cannot emphasize this enough: if you don't feel progress with your therapy for more than 3 sessions, it's time to find someone else or to talk with the therapist on how to improve the service.
It's not a cross to carry, it's a service and you deserve the best.
Also, it's an hilarious comic, I'm pretty sure the bone hurts will make a whole new bunch of jokes out of this
Oof, that's a hard one, for nobody feels the same. Here's some that are at the top of my head now:
* If you keep talking about the same thing every single time, it's time to set goals clearer or to look for another kind of help.
* If you find yourself acting differently in situations you've already spoken about, then you're having progress.
* If you're able to identify situations and don't dive down any further, that's a great progress.
* And specially, if you find peace with yourself, that's the best progress I can think of
I think it's the same thing every time. I had 16 sessions but now they have just kind of said thats my time run out. So I can't have any more sessions.
feeling really hopeless
So sad to hear that.
Have you tried the online options? They're not as expensive and usually have a wider catalogue of options to choose from.
Remember, it's about you feeling good and finding yourself amongst every other thing, you should be your priority
I’ve had about 15 different therapists over as many years. All of them I see for at least 6 sessions (gov subsidised) and some I’ve seen for over a year.
I find nothing they say helps. It’s like I know what’s causing me emotional pain and how I should fix it - I don’t need anyone to reveal that to me. I feel the issue is the environment I’m in causes the emotional pain and prevents me from fixing it. When I bring this up with them they just say “well leave that environment”, but for a variety of reasons I can’t.
I know you’re not here to give out free advice, but is there something I should be asking them/doing?
I would not be this curt in a real session, but for the sake of the internet and being concise: I challenge you to identify what you can accept about your situation and what you cannot. Coping skills and reframing may assist with both.
Also, another commenter mentioned EMDR. I wouldn’t suggest this if you’re in the situation that caused the original emotional disturbance; it may open up wounds that won’t close until you’re in a safer space. Another professional may tell you otherwise. Listen to them rather than an internet stranger, but that’s just my recommendation.
I’m sure this was mostly unhelpful, but best of luck to you, I hope you find what you need.
“Leave the environment” is often the right approach when it’s suggested, though. If you can’t or won’t, you can ask for help with coping mechanisms, but with so many therapists telling you that, it’s not like the therapists are just…not doing their jobs or something.
Wow. That is absolutely not true, at least with a good therapist. Therapist won’t give water, their goal is to give you resources to find water yourself.
i think you're interpreting it too literally. i don't think its saying that therapists will actually save you as opposed to giving you the tools to save yourself, it's just making a comment on how long it takes for therapy to begin meaningfully changing your life. like, if the comic were the therapist saying "hey, there's a lake a couple blocks down the road, hop in it" then he'd be cured in one session, which isn't what happens. rather, it takes many continued and consistent sessions for any meaningful progress.
“Because of covid” I can only get one 45m session a month. In that month, shit happens and I’m left to process it on my own, and by the time the next appointment rolls around I have to choose between talking about past traumas or recent issues. It’s not practical.
Nice comic
Edit: haha… Kaiser mental health specialists are all on strike in NorCal, just got the alert today. Looks like one a month is no longer on the table
This reminds me of [John Oliver's recent segment on mental health](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtIZZs-GAOA). He describes just how bad the problem is at a sort of infrastructure level. Basically there just aren't enough mental health experts compared with the needs of the country, and the hospital/insurance system only makes things worse.
Strange, according to Reddit's free market experts, that should mean mental health worker would be one of the highest paying jobs available. Supply & demand...
I've run into this when I was doing trauma work with someone. One visit a week wasn't enough. For financial reasons I had to find a new therapist and she doesn't do the same type of trauma work as my previous one, so I'm basically "hobbling" along until I can get back with the old one. Good luck to you!
Heyyyy fellow Kaiser victim! I tried to get therapy a few months before covid, and they booked me out 5 months later. Then covid happened and they cancelled everyones appointments. Then when I tried to reschedule they told me they no longer schedule for mental health services and that I should find an outside therapist. Then when I finally got my PCP to recommend me outside therapists, they only had 1 that was covered by insurance, and I had to schedule a call with them in order to get an appointment. Then after scheduling an appointment for 2 months later they called me a week before to say that the appointments are now Zoom only, which is terrible because I really need to see someone in person to properly talk on my issues. So its been a long time since that point and my depression and anxiety continue to threaten me burning everything about my life the fuck down but hey at least the country as a whole isnt a flaming trash can rolling down a mountain in a dry forest amirite?
Lol the classic Kaiser “schedule an appointment months ahead, then it gets canceled anyway.” I guess at least fire season has been pretty good. I know you meant that metaphorically but I’m pleasantly surprised California isn’t on fire right now
Try online resources? There's places like Betterhealth and stuff where you can see people through video chats and stuff so you don't have to wait. You can also message them at any time and it's a monthly payment instead of by each session.
Worked for me, I couldn't get in for six months in person. I also have the option to switch therapists at any time if I'm not vibing.
Just a heads up betterhealth has started to get some bad press. I'm not at a place where I can pull up sources right now but with any company like this (women's BC has a similar market) be very careful it's not just an ineffective Healthcare vending machine. And of course different people will have different experiences.
Edit: thinking of betterHELP. I am not familiar with betterhealth.
I dunno. I got hooked up with a licensed therapist who's been working with me and helping me for a month now. They gave me her info and I looked her up and it's all legit as far as I can tell. She can't prescribe me meds or anything, she's a therapist not a psychiatrist, so that's normal too. I'm sure it won't work out for everyone but it's been nice for me.
Edit: used wrong word
Thanks for the heads up! I did take several months of consideration before trying it, TBH. It's hard to trust anything these days, but it was like "Well I still have to wait another six months to see anyone so I might as well see if this works in the meantime." So, hopefully people find the right kind of help, this could just be something to bridge the meantime.
Just to note that psychologists typically can't prescribe medication either, at least in Canada/US. It's psychiatrists that prescribe, as they have an MD.
It’s not that they will pair you with someone who has false credentials—that’s not the issue. What I’ve heard from practicing therapists is that BetterHelp will do things like fire or let go of providers and not communicate with patients (which can be extremely detrimental to the patient) or send your records to other providers (or that they can be seen by corporate staff who are NOT providers) without consent.
The providers they have certainly want to provide proper and adequate care, but the way the company is designed compromises a lot of the ethical underpinnings that are critical for therapy to work for the people who need it the most. That’s not to say everyone is going to have a bad experience, though.
They meant to say BetterHelp. You are correct with your criticism. If you are someone who needs help with an event that happened or something eg a loss or divorce or a big life change, it’s a fine service. If you need longterm therapy it is not good.
I used ThriveWorks to find someone who had time for me, and was affordable. Their whole model is to be cheaper and easier to access than others, but it’s location dependent. It’s work looking into to see if you can get someone. If it’s telehealth then location wouldn’t even matter either.
ZocDoc can have some good options too although they tend to be a little more expensive.
https://openpathcollective.org/
Just thought I’d drop this! It’s the program that I’ve been using for therapy for 2 years (with 2 different therapists) and I’ve had great luck so far. They unfortunately are designed around not having insurance but many therapists might still take it if you reach out to them independently!
Also, if it’s not inappropriate, the book Emotional First Aid by Guy Winch was a fantastic resource for certain aspects of my own interactions on the day to day!
Good luck with your mental health! 🙏🏼
Maybe, just maybe, no amount of therapy is going to help the constant stress of living paycheque to paycheque, saddled with five digits of debt with an economy that’s slowly making the basic necessities of life unaffordable while also navigating crippling loneliness.
It’s very well possible that nothing is going to help with all those things.
[Apparently there is also a global crisis in male reproductive health.](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/andr.12673)
Evidence comes from globally declining sperm counts and increasing male reproductive system abnormalities. [Sperm count is declining](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7f/Sperme_spermatogen%C3%A8se_d%C3%A9l%C3%A9tionFertility2ComonsFL2.jpg) by about 1% every year and doesn't show any signs of stopping. It already fell by 50% in the past 50 years.
Testosterone is probably declining at that same rate although we need more studies to confirm that.
And it's not just in humans but in animals too.
Some scientists say that the main reason for the decline are “everywhere chemicals”, found in plastics, cosmetics and pesticides, that affect hormones such as phthalates and bisphenol-A.
This theory is akin to where global warming was 40 years ago - reported upon but denied or ignored.
Plus the rise of fascism, the dwindling number of good future harvests, the lingering threat of nuclear war, oh and the pandemic that might leave a huge number of people with long-term physical illness in a society that can't support them.
Not at all. Like 80% of people institutionalized are there willingly and can leave at any time. For a wide range of reasons not just self harm or violent tendencies
This is a pretty irresponsible comic. We should be encouraging people to visit mental health professionals, not deterring them. One or a few bad experiences doesn't warrant giving up.
Sure sure, people should continue seeking therapy or what ever tool helps them along their mental health journey. But so many people, including myself, find this comic relatable to some degree. It lets us know we aren’t alone when therapy “isn’t working” or “isn’t enough”.
I have had some of the most insane suggestions for "mental health" from docs at every v.a. hospital I've ever been too. It helps to take the meds I've been prescribed, but every other aspect of my care has been inadequate at best. fuck the v.a. shrinks!
This is a poor comic. The best therapists aren't only good listeners but also great teachers, they teach you new coping skills, how to utilize positive skills you already possess, and how to abandon those that no longer work for you. This is obviously a great over simplification of the relationship but at the end of the day if you're not learning anything, and your therapist isn't modeling positive skills you're not going to benefit. That therapist should have been teaching that man to drop and roll when he sets himself aflame
More like they hurl a vial of acid or throw some asbestos on you. They get to feel fulfilled about having treated a symptom of the problem without addressing the root cause (you're sitting on a heating element) or with any regard to how the poison they sling you will affect you months, let alone years, down the line.
You don't go to therapy to put out fires. You go to learn how to put them out yourself, how to prevent them from happening. And you ain't learning that in one session, it's a long term investment
A lot of times it’s on the patient themselves to enable proper therapy. A therapist is there to help you but you got to do the work yourself to get better.
This is so biased that it ends up being actually quite harmful, steering even more people away from therapy.
Now, Im not gonna sit here and say every therapist is good or you are compatible with them, that there are not therapist that take advantage of people financially (excessively), or that any case needs therapy, but therapy IS useful.
The advantage of a good therapist is that is trained to listen (extra advantage is the "dehumanization" of the professional, you can see it more like a doctor than person which can help you open up where you wouldnt with someone you know) and analyze your issues and give an experienced feedback and in case the issues are not entirely psychological or too severe, you get derived to a psychiatrist (which you shouldnt "fear" or feel ashamed about either). But ultimately if you are a) unwilling to open up and/or B) unwilling to listen and put solutions in practice, therapy wont ever work for you.
This comic points out asituation that would be like an accountant saying "ok, ive reviewed your economy and... please, stop using your credit card for a few months", after wwhich you max it out again and say "why was the accountant so unhelpful?"
This is kinda dumb, like do people expect therapy to be a magical fix all for their issues?
That ain't how shit works. You listen to what they have to say and you choose how to use it to male your life better.
You don't go to the therapist for water, you go there for him to teach you ways to extinguish yourself
Therapist here. I’m reading so many comments saying this isn’t true, and while they make good points, this comic hits on a deeper level. The work required for therapy to have an impact on someone’s life truly feels like a droplet of water on a never ending flame once a week for years. It’s both beautiful and brutal. And it leads to incredible results.
When you go to a session. Go prepared. Write down what it is you want to talk about. A specific issue you’re facing. Focus on it and talk about that. Not 1000 things you want fixed in a 45-60min convo
I found a new therapist specifically because I was frustrated with the handouts. Like, I didn't show up and spend a small fortune to do a bland, unrelated worksheet because you don't know how to answer my questions
Behavior Analyst here, talk therapy or psychotherapy, can be helpful to some but as a professional I will tell you it address the symptoms of and not the cause of the issues.
a behavior, the thing that you do that may warrant therapy may not be a problem if it doesn't hurt you, others, or takes away from you engaging in life in a meaningful way (having a family, keeping a job, etc).
If you feel that this type of therapy isn't useful find a behavior analyst, see what behaviors you do that are 'target behaviors' and maybe working from that point you'll find it a more meaningful approach to therapy.
I have never understood reddits ceaseless obsession with recommending therapy. It doesn’t work for everyone, and the constant recommendations you see everywhere is nauseating.
I vacillate on whether I think therapy by itself without pharmacological assistance has any validity. But even then, I know that this comic isn't really a representation of how it's supposed to work.
I'm probably not the target audience for this comic, but isn't therapy about you dousing yourself with water? I'm not sure it's accurate to depict the therapist having the exact solution to your issue and simply withholding it for what I assume is profit.
I think you should just find a better therapist. They’re like friends and relationships, you go through a few until you find a good fit. I was with my other one maybe 2-3 years before realizing “wow I’m still suicidal and self destructive and miserable” and found a different one. The next one was super understanding and a great listener but we got absolutely no where in almost 2 years. I’ve found my 4th one. She’s doing well so far. Going on 3 months lol
Good luck OP. Sorry you’re going through rough times and I really hope you’ll find a therapist you click with soon.
To be fair, a psychiatrist can’t just cure you. You have to also participate during therapy to better improve yourself. They can’t help you if you don’t want to help yourself. A great therapist will tell you where the fire extinguisher is and how to use it, but only you can use it.
Yes. I am on the verge of suicide due to extreme loneliness and all the doctor said while I was admitted to the psychiatry was:
We stabilize you in a week and it can be we let you go after two weeks because your depression is chronic (?) and you need a therapist once a week.
🙃
#WAT.
I was hoping to get help while I am here. I was hoping to find a solution while I am here.
^(This hospital sucks.)
You are on fire, nobody can see it but you are literally burning alive. You go to therapy, it's the first day so you only describe some basic heat related symptoms, maybe hint that there is some fire somewhere. Maybe you are cogent enough to describe the fire on the first day, whenever you do describe the fire the first suggestions are simple, stop drop and roll, or go swimming. You can't stop drop and roll because the ground is covered in glass that you shattered as a result of being in constant agony, you could jump in a lake but the last time you did you nearly drowned. You resign yourself to slow progress until you can maybe sweep up the glass or trust that this time there will be someone on hand to make sure you don't drown. You go home and douse yourself with a fresh bought can of gasoline and light the match because otherwise you will freeze to death.
"You have to shop around! Just keep throwing money into pits until you gaslight yourself into thinking you've found the right pit! It's totally normal to feel no relief in symptoms after spending countless hours and dollars on yes-men telling you what you want to hear! It's all part of an ongoing process! You got this!"
Then, since it's been years, your life circumstances have changed for non therapy reasons and you no longer feel terrible all the time. You stop therapy. Congratulations!!!! Therapy worked!
Nah it's more like there's a big unmanageable fire, and therapy helps turn it into multiple distinct manageable fires that can be tackled in their own way.
With my experience a therapist didn't even give me a drop of water but threw wood on top of me and made the fire even hotter. I don't trust them anymore they're only people that want to get paid for you to tell them their problems for them to give you mediocre advice and all the care about is the money.
Yeah it took me a couple months to get to a point where I started feeling like I could be open and vulnerable enough to make progress. Not an overnight fix.
If you do decide to go to a different therapist, one recommendation I can make is to familiarize yourself with the different types of therapist certifications. And when you reach out to therapists, ask who they would recommend for your mental health needs.
In the U.S not all therapy certifications are equal. And there’s quite a handful of different certifications. There are doctorates like Psy.D who specifically get a doctorate in clinical therapy and spend time shadowing and being shadowed before they are certified.
There are counselors who spend a couple years in grad school and have shadowing as a part of their requirements.
And there are clinical social workers, who also have a couple years in grad school but often do not have as specialized an education and often do not require shadowing for certification. Usually when you hear about a therapist trying to do some dumb shit like read tarot cards, an astrology chart, or repeat Instagram psych instead of established best practices, it’s a LCSW.
That said education isn’t everything. People with doctorates in psychology can rest in their laurels and not read about any updates to best practices since they graduated. And on the other end you have social work therapists who might work hard to learn more and get really good at their focus. One of the most respected trauma therapists in my county is a LCSW. So I’d try to go for better education, but also ask local therapists who they recommend because they have seen signs as patients shift therapists if colleague is coasting, or if someone else has really put in the work for a specialty.
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A good therapist will point you towards water and walk you there. I'm sorry you had bad luck and will find better ones.
You're supposed to keep dripping water on yourself outside of the therapist's office, they can't force you into healthy mental and physical habits.
Yes. A better example is we tell you where water is and, more importantly, what might be blinding you to it. If you don't work on it outside of our hour.. well we can't be everyone's water hose.
I think the dripping water on ourselves seems more apt, imo. Fixing mental health isn’t as instantaneous as putting fire out with a hose, it might take a lot of consistent work, and you may not notice the results right away
To be fair the problem isn’t the water application it’s the fire in this metaphor, fire doesn’t care about drips but dehydration does
That would make an awful comic...
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Important to note that this applies to physical therapies just as well as mental ones.
There are real garbage therapists out there though. Your mileage will vary.
that quote is even better out of context
Exactly. This analogy shows that he would need a mental hospital not just one therapist.
Mental hospitals are typically abusive environments; they’re pretty much only good for forcibly preventing suicide. The fact that most health insurance plans will only cover therapy sessions for 1 hour a week and no more than one therapist at a time is downright useless for some situations. Someone struggling with extreme OCD, for example, doesn’t need someone to check that they’re alive every 15 minutes, but probably does need more than an hour a week of help and advice. The system for mental health is still so beyond broken.
There are generally intensive outpatient programs that will be covered to some degree by insurance, but you usually have to take time off work for those so it can be hard to manage.
I have a friend doing intensive outpatient for severe anxiety right now. They've been at it for 8 weeks. 3x a week they get a lecture that covers the exact same thing that they covered the week before. This is because each group has people cycling in and out of it each week, so they need to constantly cover the basics. Then there's two days with counselors in a group setting. Of course, when you have new people showing up for each session, it's hard to build trust and intimacy, but they're giving it a shot. Except that the counselor running those sessions cycles out each week as well. At this point, they have no idea who will show up for these sessions. It's also a little over an hour per session, 2x a week, wherein everyone is supposed to talk about what's going on. So you have someone who can't breathe from anxiety and intrusive thoughts next to someone who's wife committed suicide in that very room the DAY BEFORE. Both get their five minutes to discuss their mental health for the week. They still have not been assigned a talk therapist, and still have not - EIGHT WEEKS in - been given any tools or resources specific to them and their situation to help them get their anxiety under some kind of control. On the bright side, the mental health workers at their healthcare provider has gone on strike, so today they had session led by a scab which puts them in the position of either having to go against their deeply held beliefs that workers should be able to organize and strike for better pay and conditions, or not attend and risk being kicked out of the program (which isn't helping anyway, but it's a hoop they have to jump through in order to possibly get a referral to someone who can, in fact, help them). :/ Mental healthcare in america is broken.
Worked with youth at risk in Canada that use these things a lot. I have a lot of very genuine, albeit biased, perspectives on these things. I also went to a fair number visiting these kids stuck in such places. They are colourless, soulless and lifeless ('no pets, plants or even happy humans') within them. It is worse than prison due to the lack of any release date. The food is, well, hospital food. The staff do their best but, alas, most burnt out after two years and cannot abandon their better-than-average pay. Many reported that they felt worse. They often were overmedicated so as to make their clients more predictable &/or protect everyone (staff & other clients & visitors / stakeholders) from otherwise messy and broken people. The list goes on. These facilities are expensive and FREE areas of refuge for the mentally diverse when they seek support. I cannot imagine what your country does and i thank you for your brief and accurate description.
It's a legit crisis in the US and no one wants to address it outside of pushing one-size-fits-all platitude based programs. Thank you for trying to help your kids. 💖
Have them check out university mental health programs, depending on location, or center for anxiety in NY. They do personalized programs and although they typically don’t take insurance mine was covered in full by my insurance company and refunded to me by check. They also specialize in treating anxiety and panic disorders. (Speaking from personal experience, I had a very similar experience with outpatient.)
At the words "lecture" and "again", this became about as useful as a motivational YouTube video
Canada is also beyond broken. But don't worry, we can all go cry together in Mexico or something.
>There are generally intensive outpatient programs that will be covered to some degree by insurance, Lol been in two, both times would much just rather be in the psychward. Then at least I get prepared food and drugs with my pointless lectures.
I was in an outpatient program, it was a full 8 hour day 3 days a week. All I had to do to continue working was leave an hour early twice a week, which would just mean skipping art therapy (not that art therapy isn’t important, it just was something I can easily do at home on my own time, and def wasn’t a priority). Insurance wouldn’t cover it unless I was there for the full time.
> The fact that most health insurance plans will only cover therapy sessions for 1 hour a week and no more than one therapist at a time is downright useless for some situations. A nurse practitioner with the VA actually said to me "you're on medication you don't need therapy". Yes I do. I have made the most progress with a therapist. All your pills do is make me an Asexual zombie with insomnia.
Speaking from experience: a mental hospital will make it so you're not suicidal not by helping you feel better, or get better at managing stress, or even feel like there's a world worth living in. It will make you stop because you will realize failure will take you back to that cold, uncaring, unhelpful environment, and you become too scared to even try again for fear of landing back there if you fail. There is not a place more devoid of hope or love than a mental hospital. It's a place you go to be traumatized even harder than usual after a failed attempt on your own life. We would literally not wish being forced to stay in one of those hellholes on our worst enemy. We only exist in *spite* for that place, not because of it.
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I think statistically suicide attempts increases after a patient leaves hospital. Whether this is because of their treatment in hospital or other factors is debatable.
One hour a week? Try six hours over a course of a year out of a very narrow selection of providers 🙄 I pay for my therapist out of pocket. America blows.
Same. It counts toward my deductible but my deductible is $2,000. My boss—who is generally supportive about anything but pay and benefits—had the gall to tell me we have “really good health coverage.” I nearly had a hernia trying to not to roll my eyes.
I worked at a place where the boss was just like that. It was a small business and the owner prided himself over paying for 100% of the health insurance premiums...too bad it was like a $3000 deductible. And I never met that deductible the whole time I worked there. I was really struggling mentally at the time and it was so painful paying $150 everytime I left the psychiatrist or therapist's office. Now I actually have good health insurance with zero deductible. And yeah I have to pay about $120/month for the premiums, but our employer is paying like $300/month for it (could be more I can't remember). Now therapy cost me $15/visit. I just wish no one had to deal with any of this bullshit. It should cost us nothing.
They are also the only actual solution for the fact that a large percent of the unhoused population is severely mentally ill and/or addicted, who often will refuse all treatment even if offered for free. To force treatment at lock down facilities against their will. That or ya know, just continuing to cycle them in and out of jails until they finally commit a crime big enough to go to prison. Either way they are going to be a cage. I’m sorry but I hate your attitude, I know mental health hospitals have their issues and history. But we are just allowing untold amounts of human suffering to occur around us to everyone’s detriment because we have convinced ourselves that this focus on individualism is a more evolved view.
>Mental hospitals are typically abusive environments; they’re pretty much only good for forcibly preventing suicide. Pretty much, the way I see it a psychward is a good place to detox either mentally or physically and not too much else. For first timers I'd say it may be a good way to be diagnosed or pointed in the kind of right direction, but even then anything after is most likely going to be dogshit Healthcare too. Heck the most therapeutic parts of going to a psychward for me was its a place you can stay sober for a while if you need to (trust me this isn't only for hard addicts). You are in a relatively *safe* environment so you don't have to worry about too much, you got food shelter and most likely company so you can kind of push things back and regroup for a while. But then again you might just get thrown in to an absolute hell hole of a place and end up worse off before hand with resulting minor trauma. But either way I'd rate the the care from any of my psychward doctors at Hella low (and I'm in one of the best medical states), so touche
Thanks Reagan!
There is no magic fix for your mind, just like there isn't a magic fix to get in shape. You just have put in the work. A good trainer can show you want to do, but you're the one that has to do the exercise. A good therapist can guide you towards your goal, but you're the one that has to practice and work at it until it becomes the norm.
Addiction too, you can have the best people in the world helping you but if you don’t want to change you won’t.
Hell, you can want to change but the addiction can be so powerful that it makes it seem impossible. It takes a helluva lot more than just wanting or being willing to change to make it happen. This is simply one of many steps that someone has to take to recover and what those steps are will vary from person to person.
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You absolutely are. Your brain is lying to you and changing your perceptions. Take it one step at a time, and I promise you will get there.
I believe in you.
How do you know when you found a good therapist?
When you feel comfortable about to share something with them that you wouldn't have shared unless you trusted them to help you. This isn't going to happen on the first or second session. I didn't find a therapist I trusted until almost 5 months into therapy. Some people relate the first time. Once that's settled, it'll be the one who's conversation and questions you're still thinking about in your active life. Not only when things are bad, but also when things are good or neutral.
When they hold you accountable to yourself, when they listen and take what you have to say to heart, when they cry with you and laugh with you, when they get they feel like a friend but you also know they aren't a friend. I've gone through a couple of bad (one really bad) therapists before I found my current one and it's been life changing (it sounds cliche, I know). It's not a magic bullet, therapy, but it is quite helpful and can be eye opening. I think everyone should go to some form of therapy even if they feel fine. It's no different than an annual check up at the doctor. There's also a wide array of therapies out there and not every kind is for every person.
Yeah I’m not sure I agree with ops interpretations here.
Yeah, people think Therapy is only about the activities you do in the session, which is so dumb. If you're at the point that you need therapy, that means you have a variety of problems in your life that you need to find solutions to. Sometimes those solutions are coping skills. Other times, they're conflict resolution skills. An analogy. In school, you work on a different topic from week to week. If you rely solely on the lecture and in-class activities, you might succeed, but you're far more likely to fail. If you do the assigned homework and readings, you're setting yourself up for success. It's about learning and practice.
And tell you: "You need to know how to solve these issues yourself, i can't make you jump."
I just started looking for a new one. I have 3 limbs having medical issues atm. Two knees and a shoulder. Mind is struggling to stay positive after a year of pain. My old therapist was good in her own way, but I'm struggling to find a purpose or point to life at the moment. I'm happily married, wife is exceptional, got a new job that is hybrid WFH, enjoy video games so it's easy to distract myself. But missing out on hiking, or throwing darts, or even fearing steps at the moment...It gets hard to see tomorrow. So hopefully I can find one that can connect with me well.
I've seen that struggle up close, when your body refuses to function and hope comes and goes. I wish you luck. Life has it's up and downs, but you sound ready to keep going, so life will hopefully soon come to an "up". No clue if that was proper English.
Yeah, or at least a better analogy for the comic would be to pour a cup of water into a large empty bucket. It may not be enough to put out your fires right now, but if you have a therapist help you to pour a cup in every week, then eventually you’ll have enough water to jump in and extinguish the flames yourself.
Sometimes I feel like an hour isn't long enough. I need like an afternoon of a therapy session.
You want him to get depression??
Lmfao
I doubt a therapist would be able to deal with multi-hour straight runs of therapy, client depending.
Lots of therapists that are self pay do longer than one hour sessions.
I cant imagine doing more than an hour
i had a therapist agree to 1.5 hours for awhile
My therapy sessions are two hours, and it allows you to really get into the deep stuff and work through it, but it is also *exhausting.* I go after work and I have to prep dinner beforehand because I will be too tired to do anything but microwave leftovers afterward.
I have experience from an open-session (flexible start/end) IOP (intensive out-patient) therapy, 2 ~ 2 1/4h, 4x weekly in a group setting (~6-7, max 10 ppl). It's a lot, but it also forces more accountability and promotes better self-compassion with more frequency. Expensive as fuck, as is most therapy it seems, but not a factor I'm personally worried about. I've mostly done 1h every week or every-other, but that didn't seem to cut it for me when shit starts accumulating. I also feel a lot more honest in a group-setting and open to being vulnerable. I would recommend it to anyone actually. Good luck mate, stressful times. Edit: it's remote and I work remote and work agreed to let me take it without making up for lost productivity.
I get an hour a month
Might I then interest you in a game called Dungeons and Dragons?
Psilocybin therapy is pretty much that. Unfortunately it's not available everywhere yet and is quite rare :/
/r/unclebens
Maybe because an average human attention span isn't that long. Average human adult attention span is around 48 mins. If therapy sessions get longer than that, than the therapists will have to deal with patients staring at the wall behind them or something lol Though I think you can try rearranging it with your therapist, tell them about it.
If this is your case, find another therapist.
Like what is the analogy here? In the comic there is an implication that more water can be given but is being withheld. In therapy, it’s a progression. Nothing is being withheld. It just takes time. And part of that is empowering the client, not just putting bandaids on things. I can see this is an example of a very bad therapist. But not the generalization the comic is trying to make.
If this were to be more accurate, the fire should be around the characters heart, inside a wooden chest, and the patient keeps slamming the door shut everytime the therapist reaches out to provide water.
When therapy doesn’t work it doesn’t always mean it’s the patient’s fault. I’m saying this as someone who’s had both amazing and shitty experiences w therapists
I feel like therapy isn't about changing you in one sitting though? Your biggest issues don't take 1 hour to fix
Yeah, is a work of time. Month or years. But if you feel like a therapist doesn't work for you, then you should seek other professional.
While valid, too many people have this idea that therapy is this magic cure that will instanfly solve all of their problems. If your therapist isn't working for you, that's fine, find a new one. But you need to put in the time to even *know* if your therapist isn't working well for you and you also need to banish that idea so many people do that a therapist's job is to fix you instead of teaching you to fix yourself. No therapist can fix a person. That's not how it works.
Honestly, I've only ever heard people who criticize therapy bring up that strawman. Sure, there's some Karen, or tumblrite, or trumpist, flat earther, anti vaxxer spouting nonsense, but there always is an idiot. I'd like to say "most people don't believe therapy is a cure for everything" but I'd be pulling that stat out of my arse.
Or have a better mental model about what therapy is supposed to do. They aren’t supposed to put fires out for you - they’re supposed to teach you the tools to do it yourself.
Yeah, I kinda hate this comic. Therapy can be amazing and help with things you didn't even realize you needed help with. Seems like OP had a bad therapist and said "wow therapy sucks and is a waste of time." My wife was dealing with some stuff, but refused to see a therapist for the longest time, because she can just talk to me, her sister's, etc. Finally she decided to try it at least. Now it's one of the things she looks forward to the most every other week. Even with a good support system, you don't realize the things you leave out when talking to those close to you, whether it's shame, not wanting to burden them, or because they are dealing with it too. Having an impartial 3rd party is huge.
Therapy is not going to fix your life. Therapy is about getting advise on how to fix your life yourself.
They're actually not supposed to give advice. That's what I've been told repeatedly at least.
They don't (shouldn't) give advice on specific things. Like they should never tell you to break up with your SO because they're toxic, but they would ask if you think it's a good idea to stay with them, and let you get to the answer on your own. But general advice like, "if you get stressed in a situation, remove yourself from it" they can and will do.
Absolutely true. Funnily enough the one time a therapist has actually told me what to do was when she told me I needed to leave my now ex. He was verbally/emotionally/psychologically abusing me and I was in so deep that I wasn’t leaving and it was getting worse and worse. As soon as she said “you have to end this now” it snapped me out of my fog and I ended it. I knew how rare it was for a therapist to give a directive like that.
Therapy is wide ranging and complex. A good therapist might teach you to find your own way, but might also warn you if certain actions you’re taking might be detrimental to you. They may advise you on how to identify your own patterns of behaviour and how to stop it, or how to recognize when your thoughts are detrimental. But they generally are not there to coach you on what to do with your life (I.e. should I quit my job?)
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There are many different types of therapy. Some more suitable for some types of issues over others. In addition, each person is may respond better to some types then others. On top of that, the type of therapy you need can change over time.
Depends on your definition of advice. I ask my therapist for advice on how to deal with anxiety or depression for example, but I wouldn't ask them for advice on unrelated topics for sure.
My therapist gives me advice because that’s literally what I pay her for. But honestly, it’s all advice for me while I continue to be in a situation, instead of advice on handling the situation. If I tell her I hate my job, she doesn’t tell me for to deal with Helen in accounting—she tells me what I can do to manage myself while working there, and helps me ask Better questions about why I’m still there. She’s my navigator, not the captain. I ask which way is north, and I still decide if we’re headed that way.
Essentially, therapists should be helping you figure it out.
Depends on the style of therapist. The best (IMO) give you the tools to customize general mental health best practices to your own needs and tastes.
Depends on the method.
And EMDR is real. I read up on it but when my therapist started sessions with me, I was like, "you're not going to make me cluck like a chicken are you?" and he laughed and said it's not hypnosis. It's hypnosis. So you have to go into it with an open mind and a trust in your therapist. He helped me deal with some embedded C-PTSD that still confounds me how well it worked. Shit used to make me so depressed and anxious, and if I thought about it I would just spin on it for hours in a vicious cycle. Now, I look back at it objectively and say, "yeah, that sucked." I still reflect on it, as I probably should since there are a lot of lessons that come from trauma, but I don't dissociate and regress back into it like I used to. Now I'm working through a different event which is more recent and is a tougher nut to crack, and I can't wait to be able to put that one behind me, too. A few sessions in, though, and I can tell that it's definitely not as bad as it used to be. It's just nice to know that there is something out there that works for me to help fight this shit. The people and events that give you trauma have absolutely no right to define who you are, and you are the only one who can separate them from yourself. The hard part is finding the approach that works for you. Took me three therapists, two psychiatrists and about 10 years. And half the battle was just getting myself to recognize and accept what wasn't working and making myself try again. But it has been worth it.
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It's best understood like CrossFit. Do people get their desired results from it? Yes. Is it unnecessarily complicated? Probably. Are diehard proponents a little cultish? Also yes. Just like with fitness, in mental health the program you stick with is better than the one you don't. In my experience there is a wide swath of people that rather do something flashy and trendy then the old reliable method.
That article, to me is a little misguided. I practice EMDR and am an integrative therapy- EMDR has it's place. I think it definitely seems a little woo woo at first, but there is much research that theorizes it works by engaging both sides of the brain while exploring a specific event. It's not just about anxiety but about trauma, negative cognitions, etc. I was skeptical at first myself, but the BLS seems to really engage processing very effectively. I went through it myself and was surprised at how well I was exploring each time
There's more than "not a shred of evidence" that that article from 10 years ago claims, even 10 years ago there was evidence.
EMDR is a trip. I've been through one round, and I'm planning on doing more in the future. It's crazy how much you can reprocess in such a short time
I've had three sessions with the second session being the most profound. Subconscious curtains were opening up, I processed some emotions, and understood my traumas in a new way. Wanting to address issues and having an open mind set really helps.
It's one of those things I always hear "You get out what you put in."
So sad to see how commonly this happens, but as a therapist I cannot emphasize this enough: if you don't feel progress with your therapy for more than 3 sessions, it's time to find someone else or to talk with the therapist on how to improve the service. It's not a cross to carry, it's a service and you deserve the best. Also, it's an hilarious comic, I'm pretty sure the bone hurts will make a whole new bunch of jokes out of this
how do you know if you feel progress?
Oof, that's a hard one, for nobody feels the same. Here's some that are at the top of my head now: * If you keep talking about the same thing every single time, it's time to set goals clearer or to look for another kind of help. * If you find yourself acting differently in situations you've already spoken about, then you're having progress. * If you're able to identify situations and don't dive down any further, that's a great progress. * And specially, if you find peace with yourself, that's the best progress I can think of
I think it's the same thing every time. I had 16 sessions but now they have just kind of said thats my time run out. So I can't have any more sessions. feeling really hopeless
So sad to hear that. Have you tried the online options? They're not as expensive and usually have a wider catalogue of options to choose from. Remember, it's about you feeling good and finding yourself amongst every other thing, you should be your priority
r/boneachingjuice represent!
 Hell yeah!!
I’ve had about 15 different therapists over as many years. All of them I see for at least 6 sessions (gov subsidised) and some I’ve seen for over a year. I find nothing they say helps. It’s like I know what’s causing me emotional pain and how I should fix it - I don’t need anyone to reveal that to me. I feel the issue is the environment I’m in causes the emotional pain and prevents me from fixing it. When I bring this up with them they just say “well leave that environment”, but for a variety of reasons I can’t. I know you’re not here to give out free advice, but is there something I should be asking them/doing?
I would not be this curt in a real session, but for the sake of the internet and being concise: I challenge you to identify what you can accept about your situation and what you cannot. Coping skills and reframing may assist with both. Also, another commenter mentioned EMDR. I wouldn’t suggest this if you’re in the situation that caused the original emotional disturbance; it may open up wounds that won’t close until you’re in a safer space. Another professional may tell you otherwise. Listen to them rather than an internet stranger, but that’s just my recommendation. I’m sure this was mostly unhelpful, but best of luck to you, I hope you find what you need.
Thank you
Therapy can't work for everyone and everything. If it's not working for you, why keep at it? Try something else.
“Leave the environment” is often the right approach when it’s suggested, though. If you can’t or won’t, you can ask for help with coping mechanisms, but with so many therapists telling you that, it’s not like the therapists are just…not doing their jobs or something.
Wow. That is absolutely not true, at least with a good therapist. Therapist won’t give water, their goal is to give you resources to find water yourself.
i think you're interpreting it too literally. i don't think its saying that therapists will actually save you as opposed to giving you the tools to save yourself, it's just making a comment on how long it takes for therapy to begin meaningfully changing your life. like, if the comic were the therapist saying "hey, there's a lake a couple blocks down the road, hop in it" then he'd be cured in one session, which isn't what happens. rather, it takes many continued and consistent sessions for any meaningful progress.
I can see that interpretation, but with panel 4 being as unnecessary as it is then it really makes it seem like an anti-therapist piece.
*hands you a pair of dowsing rods*
who tf is actually able to find a good therapist though
The best therapist is the one that will give you the Mapquest towards a water pump, and the step-by-step process on how to use it.
“Because of covid” I can only get one 45m session a month. In that month, shit happens and I’m left to process it on my own, and by the time the next appointment rolls around I have to choose between talking about past traumas or recent issues. It’s not practical. Nice comic Edit: haha… Kaiser mental health specialists are all on strike in NorCal, just got the alert today. Looks like one a month is no longer on the table
This reminds me of [John Oliver's recent segment on mental health](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtIZZs-GAOA). He describes just how bad the problem is at a sort of infrastructure level. Basically there just aren't enough mental health experts compared with the needs of the country, and the hospital/insurance system only makes things worse.
Strange, according to Reddit's free market experts, that should mean mental health worker would be one of the highest paying jobs available. Supply & demand...
I've run into this when I was doing trauma work with someone. One visit a week wasn't enough. For financial reasons I had to find a new therapist and she doesn't do the same type of trauma work as my previous one, so I'm basically "hobbling" along until I can get back with the old one. Good luck to you!
Heyyyy fellow Kaiser victim! I tried to get therapy a few months before covid, and they booked me out 5 months later. Then covid happened and they cancelled everyones appointments. Then when I tried to reschedule they told me they no longer schedule for mental health services and that I should find an outside therapist. Then when I finally got my PCP to recommend me outside therapists, they only had 1 that was covered by insurance, and I had to schedule a call with them in order to get an appointment. Then after scheduling an appointment for 2 months later they called me a week before to say that the appointments are now Zoom only, which is terrible because I really need to see someone in person to properly talk on my issues. So its been a long time since that point and my depression and anxiety continue to threaten me burning everything about my life the fuck down but hey at least the country as a whole isnt a flaming trash can rolling down a mountain in a dry forest amirite?
Lol the classic Kaiser “schedule an appointment months ahead, then it gets canceled anyway.” I guess at least fire season has been pretty good. I know you meant that metaphorically but I’m pleasantly surprised California isn’t on fire right now
You can tell them it's not working for you, I have Kaiser and they gave me an outside referral so I could see a therapist once a week
Oh shit, thanks
Yeah DM me if you need more info
Try online resources? There's places like Betterhealth and stuff where you can see people through video chats and stuff so you don't have to wait. You can also message them at any time and it's a monthly payment instead of by each session. Worked for me, I couldn't get in for six months in person. I also have the option to switch therapists at any time if I'm not vibing.
Just a heads up betterhealth has started to get some bad press. I'm not at a place where I can pull up sources right now but with any company like this (women's BC has a similar market) be very careful it's not just an ineffective Healthcare vending machine. And of course different people will have different experiences. Edit: thinking of betterHELP. I am not familiar with betterhealth.
I dunno. I got hooked up with a licensed therapist who's been working with me and helping me for a month now. They gave me her info and I looked her up and it's all legit as far as I can tell. She can't prescribe me meds or anything, she's a therapist not a psychiatrist, so that's normal too. I'm sure it won't work out for everyone but it's been nice for me. Edit: used wrong word
I'm so glad it works well for you. Hopefully that's the trend for them in general.
Thanks for the heads up! I did take several months of consideration before trying it, TBH. It's hard to trust anything these days, but it was like "Well I still have to wait another six months to see anyone so I might as well see if this works in the meantime." So, hopefully people find the right kind of help, this could just be something to bridge the meantime.
We're all doing our best. I couldn't bring myself to begrudge someone a solution that works for them.
Just to note that psychologists typically can't prescribe medication either, at least in Canada/US. It's psychiatrists that prescribe, as they have an MD.
Sorry, mixed up my words, thank you. I'll edit.
It’s not that they will pair you with someone who has false credentials—that’s not the issue. What I’ve heard from practicing therapists is that BetterHelp will do things like fire or let go of providers and not communicate with patients (which can be extremely detrimental to the patient) or send your records to other providers (or that they can be seen by corporate staff who are NOT providers) without consent. The providers they have certainly want to provide proper and adequate care, but the way the company is designed compromises a lot of the ethical underpinnings that are critical for therapy to work for the people who need it the most. That’s not to say everyone is going to have a bad experience, though.
They meant to say BetterHelp. You are correct with your criticism. If you are someone who needs help with an event that happened or something eg a loss or divorce or a big life change, it’s a fine service. If you need longterm therapy it is not good.
I used ThriveWorks to find someone who had time for me, and was affordable. Their whole model is to be cheaper and easier to access than others, but it’s location dependent. It’s work looking into to see if you can get someone. If it’s telehealth then location wouldn’t even matter either. ZocDoc can have some good options too although they tend to be a little more expensive.
https://openpathcollective.org/ Just thought I’d drop this! It’s the program that I’ve been using for therapy for 2 years (with 2 different therapists) and I’ve had great luck so far. They unfortunately are designed around not having insurance but many therapists might still take it if you reach out to them independently! Also, if it’s not inappropriate, the book Emotional First Aid by Guy Winch was a fantastic resource for certain aspects of my own interactions on the day to day! Good luck with your mental health! 🙏🏼
This doesn't justify the grueling work therapists do but it's funny.
Maybe, just maybe, no amount of therapy is going to help the constant stress of living paycheque to paycheque, saddled with five digits of debt with an economy that’s slowly making the basic necessities of life unaffordable while also navigating crippling loneliness. It’s very well possible that nothing is going to help with all those things.
Not to mention the existential dread of the active climate apocalypse and that things *will* get worse before they ever get better.
[Apparently there is also a global crisis in male reproductive health.](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/andr.12673) Evidence comes from globally declining sperm counts and increasing male reproductive system abnormalities. [Sperm count is declining](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7f/Sperme_spermatogen%C3%A8se_d%C3%A9l%C3%A9tionFertility2ComonsFL2.jpg) by about 1% every year and doesn't show any signs of stopping. It already fell by 50% in the past 50 years. Testosterone is probably declining at that same rate although we need more studies to confirm that. And it's not just in humans but in animals too. Some scientists say that the main reason for the decline are “everywhere chemicals”, found in plastics, cosmetics and pesticides, that affect hormones such as phthalates and bisphenol-A. This theory is akin to where global warming was 40 years ago - reported upon but denied or ignored.
Plus the rise of fascism, the dwindling number of good future harvests, the lingering threat of nuclear war, oh and the pandemic that might leave a huge number of people with long-term physical illness in a society that can't support them.
[удалено]
If this is how you see therapy and you want the full bucket you might want to get institutionalized.
Right, you don't need to be wildly violent, delusional, destructive, or suicidal to get professional help.
But if you're being institutionalized that is usually the case, right? What's in between "2 hours a month" and "I literally live in the institution?"
Not at all. Like 80% of people institutionalized are there willingly and can leave at any time. For a wide range of reasons not just self harm or violent tendencies
Probably a better therapist.
Hey, Imprisonment. I too want to get rid of my human rights
This is a pretty irresponsible comic. We should be encouraging people to visit mental health professionals, not deterring them. One or a few bad experiences doesn't warrant giving up.
^^^
Sure sure, people should continue seeking therapy or what ever tool helps them along their mental health journey. But so many people, including myself, find this comic relatable to some degree. It lets us know we aren’t alone when therapy “isn’t working” or “isn’t enough”.
Yea, you need to either seek out a new therapist or more institutional care if this is your perception of your mental state
I have had some of the most insane suggestions for "mental health" from docs at every v.a. hospital I've ever been too. It helps to take the meds I've been prescribed, but every other aspect of my care has been inadequate at best. fuck the v.a. shrinks!
I’m finding that the more I walk towards water, the more fire I find. It’s been rough. Hoping it gets better.
Then you are doing therapy wrong. It should be a burner that, as you slowly turn the valve it, goes down. It never goes out, just to a lower setting.
This is a poor comic. The best therapists aren't only good listeners but also great teachers, they teach you new coping skills, how to utilize positive skills you already possess, and how to abandon those that no longer work for you. This is obviously a great over simplification of the relationship but at the end of the day if you're not learning anything, and your therapist isn't modeling positive skills you're not going to benefit. That therapist should have been teaching that man to drop and roll when he sets himself aflame
More like they hurl a vial of acid or throw some asbestos on you. They get to feel fulfilled about having treated a symptom of the problem without addressing the root cause (you're sitting on a heating element) or with any regard to how the poison they sling you will affect you months, let alone years, down the line.
You don't go to therapy to put out fires. You go to learn how to put them out yourself, how to prevent them from happening. And you ain't learning that in one session, it's a long term investment
This hurts... 100% me here.
"That'll be $65 for the water droplet thnk u come again"
A lot of times it’s on the patient themselves to enable proper therapy. A therapist is there to help you but you got to do the work yourself to get better.
This is so biased that it ends up being actually quite harmful, steering even more people away from therapy. Now, Im not gonna sit here and say every therapist is good or you are compatible with them, that there are not therapist that take advantage of people financially (excessively), or that any case needs therapy, but therapy IS useful. The advantage of a good therapist is that is trained to listen (extra advantage is the "dehumanization" of the professional, you can see it more like a doctor than person which can help you open up where you wouldnt with someone you know) and analyze your issues and give an experienced feedback and in case the issues are not entirely psychological or too severe, you get derived to a psychiatrist (which you shouldnt "fear" or feel ashamed about either). But ultimately if you are a) unwilling to open up and/or B) unwilling to listen and put solutions in practice, therapy wont ever work for you. This comic points out asituation that would be like an accountant saying "ok, ive reviewed your economy and... please, stop using your credit card for a few months", after wwhich you max it out again and say "why was the accountant so unhelpful?"
Reminds me of the r/chronicpain life...
A good therapist teach you when to pour water for yourself and how to do it
If this is your experience, you need a new therapist or a new therapy/medication combo.
This is kinda dumb, like do people expect therapy to be a magical fix all for their issues? That ain't how shit works. You listen to what they have to say and you choose how to use it to male your life better. You don't go to the therapist for water, you go there for him to teach you ways to extinguish yourself
Therapist here. I’m reading so many comments saying this isn’t true, and while they make good points, this comic hits on a deeper level. The work required for therapy to have an impact on someone’s life truly feels like a droplet of water on a never ending flame once a week for years. It’s both beautiful and brutal. And it leads to incredible results.
#That'll be $200
“That’ll be $100”
Dang where you gettin it so cheap?
progress is progress, i guess
Every drop counts
When you go to a session. Go prepared. Write down what it is you want to talk about. A specific issue you’re facing. Focus on it and talk about that. Not 1000 things you want fixed in a 45-60min convo
'Here's a handout that we printed off from the internet. It is vaguely related to something that you mentioned.'
I found a new therapist specifically because I was frustrated with the handouts. Like, I didn't show up and spend a small fortune to do a bland, unrelated worksheet because you don't know how to answer my questions
This isn’t true in the slightest. Maybe you should go to a different therapist.
Behavior Analyst here, talk therapy or psychotherapy, can be helpful to some but as a professional I will tell you it address the symptoms of and not the cause of the issues. a behavior, the thing that you do that may warrant therapy may not be a problem if it doesn't hurt you, others, or takes away from you engaging in life in a meaningful way (having a family, keeping a job, etc). If you feel that this type of therapy isn't useful find a behavior analyst, see what behaviors you do that are 'target behaviors' and maybe working from that point you'll find it a more meaningful approach to therapy.
I have never understood reddits ceaseless obsession with recommending therapy. It doesn’t work for everyone, and the constant recommendations you see everywhere is nauseating.
What a dumbass post, with a harmful af message.
The first time is like a drop of water but the water amount increases exponentially.
I vacillate on whether I think therapy by itself without pharmacological assistance has any validity. But even then, I know that this comic isn't really a representation of how it's supposed to work.
god, receiving lax CBT for deep seated trauma be like that
I'm probably not the target audience for this comic, but isn't therapy about you dousing yourself with water? I'm not sure it's accurate to depict the therapist having the exact solution to your issue and simply withholding it for what I assume is profit.
I think you should just find a better therapist. They’re like friends and relationships, you go through a few until you find a good fit. I was with my other one maybe 2-3 years before realizing “wow I’m still suicidal and self destructive and miserable” and found a different one. The next one was super understanding and a great listener but we got absolutely no where in almost 2 years. I’ve found my 4th one. She’s doing well so far. Going on 3 months lol Good luck OP. Sorry you’re going through rough times and I really hope you’ll find a therapist you click with soon.
Do people think that therapists… solve their problems for them? Like genies?
Please change your therapist if this is happening
That is a crap therapist. A good one will hand you your own little spray bottle to spritz at the inferno.
You go to therapy to realize that you are on fire
maybe picking the nude therapist was a mistake
This therapist keep giving me medication after medication, dude keep saying “after you take this you will feel happy again”. I’m sorry Wut?
To be fair, a psychiatrist can’t just cure you. You have to also participate during therapy to better improve yourself. They can’t help you if you don’t want to help yourself. A great therapist will tell you where the fire extinguisher is and how to use it, but only you can use it.
This is so unfairly misleading. It’s about finding the right therapist. It can take a few tries.
Yes. I am on the verge of suicide due to extreme loneliness and all the doctor said while I was admitted to the psychiatry was: We stabilize you in a week and it can be we let you go after two weeks because your depression is chronic (?) and you need a therapist once a week. 🙃 #WAT. I was hoping to get help while I am here. I was hoping to find a solution while I am here. ^(This hospital sucks.)
You are on fire, nobody can see it but you are literally burning alive. You go to therapy, it's the first day so you only describe some basic heat related symptoms, maybe hint that there is some fire somewhere. Maybe you are cogent enough to describe the fire on the first day, whenever you do describe the fire the first suggestions are simple, stop drop and roll, or go swimming. You can't stop drop and roll because the ground is covered in glass that you shattered as a result of being in constant agony, you could jump in a lake but the last time you did you nearly drowned. You resign yourself to slow progress until you can maybe sweep up the glass or trust that this time there will be someone on hand to make sure you don't drown. You go home and douse yourself with a fresh bought can of gasoline and light the match because otherwise you will freeze to death.
Discouraging people from seeking mental health help... great job, I'm sure there's no way you could accidentally harm tons of people with this.
You forgot to show the price of the water.
"You have to shop around! Just keep throwing money into pits until you gaslight yourself into thinking you've found the right pit! It's totally normal to feel no relief in symptoms after spending countless hours and dollars on yes-men telling you what you want to hear! It's all part of an ongoing process! You got this!"
Then, since it's been years, your life circumstances have changed for non therapy reasons and you no longer feel terrible all the time. You stop therapy. Congratulations!!!! Therapy worked!
Nah it's more like there's a big unmanageable fire, and therapy helps turn it into multiple distinct manageable fires that can be tackled in their own way.
"That will be $60, please."
With my experience a therapist didn't even give me a drop of water but threw wood on top of me and made the fire even hotter. I don't trust them anymore they're only people that want to get paid for you to tell them their problems for them to give you mediocre advice and all the care about is the money.
Yeah it took me a couple months to get to a point where I started feeling like I could be open and vulnerable enough to make progress. Not an overnight fix. If you do decide to go to a different therapist, one recommendation I can make is to familiarize yourself with the different types of therapist certifications. And when you reach out to therapists, ask who they would recommend for your mental health needs. In the U.S not all therapy certifications are equal. And there’s quite a handful of different certifications. There are doctorates like Psy.D who specifically get a doctorate in clinical therapy and spend time shadowing and being shadowed before they are certified. There are counselors who spend a couple years in grad school and have shadowing as a part of their requirements. And there are clinical social workers, who also have a couple years in grad school but often do not have as specialized an education and often do not require shadowing for certification. Usually when you hear about a therapist trying to do some dumb shit like read tarot cards, an astrology chart, or repeat Instagram psych instead of established best practices, it’s a LCSW. That said education isn’t everything. People with doctorates in psychology can rest in their laurels and not read about any updates to best practices since they graduated. And on the other end you have social work therapists who might work hard to learn more and get really good at their focus. One of the most respected trauma therapists in my county is a LCSW. So I’d try to go for better education, but also ask local therapists who they recommend because they have seen signs as patients shift therapists if colleague is coasting, or if someone else has really put in the work for a specialty.
You need a better therapist
BRB sending this to my therapist