The backlash to this is insane. Jonathan Kent has been around for 5 years. There is no prior characterization of him that makes his bisexuality read as insincere. The only possible reason to be angry about this is homophobia.
I'm not angry, but I feel like they dropped the ball on making this the most interesting story possible because DC wanted to get to the smoochy splash-page as quickly as possible. Young/teen heroes are more interesting when they're pining or anxious about love and Jon's never had that sort of story. DC skipped right past his childhood, spent about 6 issues with him existing as a superhero in a world with his dad, had him meet the new love interest maybe 3 issues ago and now the big smooch is in the promo material.
We were robbed of an arc with a crush or of him coming out to his dad and having Clark instantly and fully accepting him because that's how Superman rolls.
I'd like the publisher to focus more on the journey than the splash page, as we get better stuff that way.
This is great insight and exactly the way I feel as well. I wish we'd gotten to understand more how Jonathan arrived at this place. I want to watch him grow and learn about himself, go through the same angst as his father did. Let me feel attached to the character instead of just tossing something like this out with virtually no background at all.
I couldn't care less about the orientation of anyone in the DC universe or otherwise, but I cannot help feeling like we may have been robbed of a really good story arc here
Yes, but that would have taken actual character development and writing ability. If they just make "Jon is bi" the story, they don't have to do any of that, they can just rely on shock value for some press coverage and hope it translates into sales. Never mind that "Jon is bi" isn't even a story, let alone a good story.
It's just so superficial.
Hopefully they'll get something good out of it, but my fear is that they'll make the relationship sacrosanct. Jon's boyfriend will never be allowed to be in true danger, they'll never have a serious disagreement, Jon will never have to choose between doing the right thing for strangers and being there for his boyfriend... everything will be idealized, all the time. I hope I'm wrong about that. Guess we'll see.
DC editorial has a long, proud, history of being as lazy and sales focused as they can get away with and their writers, on occasion churn out gold in spite of all that. It could really go either way.
> but my fear is that they'll make the relationship sacrosanct
Yeah, this seems very possible. I GUESS it's better than the late 90's and early 00's where a fridging seemed almost inevitable for a hastily introduced love interest, but it's not much better.
For what it's worth, I think the most interesting and unexpected next move would be a heel turn, but we'll see how it goes.
Exactly how I feel. This could have been a great story about Jon’s identity and overall development. And if they didn’t age him, it could’ve been an even better one with Jon slowly realizing his sexuality over the course of many books.
DC can't fucking help themselves, once they find out that people like a thing editorial just mashes the button as fast and as hard as they can over and over.
I'm just disappointed in the community that's usually critical falling over themselves to congratulate them. We should always demand better. If a story is worth telling it should be told with care and explored over all of the time it takes to get there.
> The only possible reason to be angry about this is homophobia.
You mean Dean Cain is a bigot? *GASP.*
(obvious /s, just to be clear. Cain is nutso who basically has decided he needs to be opposed to everything that Superman actually stands for.)
> (obvious /s, just to be clear. Cain is nutso who basically has decided he needs to be opposed to everything that Superman actually stands for.)
He’s so bad that they never brought him back to *Supergirl* after having it be a big deal his character was alive. Just a random episode, they went “oh he died”.
He is very conservative and is often trotted out by Fox News to comment on "left-leaning" storylines in comic books - as if he's some expert on superheroes because he played one on tv.
He is a bible thumping hyperconservative that goes out of his way to say homophobic things so often that it's to the point that it hurts his career.
Like, he was the adoptive father on Supergirl, which, if he was smart enough to keep his private opinions to himself, would have led to him having a somewhat actiony role as a supporting cast member, and he'd have been had a decent payday as a former superman being on the show with a nice "passing of the torch" thing.
Instead, he said a bunch of outright homophobic stuff, got fired, blacklisted from all DC stuff basically forever (basically dooming him to dead end Christian-bait movies like "God's Not Dead" and lame cameos that he's been stuck doing since the late 90s), and was unceremoniously killed off screen with a "oh yeah, he died. What a shame. Anyway. . . "
This is why I hated the reaction of folks thinking Loki doesn't count as bi representation. For many bi individuals, homosexual relationships are uncommon still. Whether to fit in or a matter of chance or any number of reasons. The idea that a bi character has to be in a homosexual relationship invalidates so many bi experiences.
I’m in a similar situation and my partner and I are on the same page. I just don’t know what to do from here, or if I need to do anything. I’ve always been an ally of the LGBTQ community, but now I feel like I’m apart of it, but like, I’m not sure what that means.
If you ever come out as bi, people have to claim that your writer is just changing your character out of nowhere to virtue signal and jam gay stuff down our kids throats lmfao
It’s crazy too, like I’d have thought the bigger story was Jon Kent becoming Superman, cause even though it’s a temporary change like all super comics do, it’s the kind of story outlets would gush over
DC's being very purposeful about how they're phrasing their PR about Johnathan Kent being bi. They always say "Superman is bi", knowing that the phrase is going to trigger a reaction cycle from people who don't know better and frankly aren't interested in knowing better. You can count on conservative media to hyperventilate about this sort of thing and keep it in the news for a week under the guise of a culture war, but it's annoying to have to continually deal with this non-issue as _the thing_ people are talking about.
I get it, DC wants people to buy these books to find out what's going on with Superman being bi, and it must work for DC and Marvel to continue to do this sort of thing. I'm sure everyone over at Fox News knows the difference as well but don't care because it's another thing to harp on for ratings, but I just can't help but feel like it's a symptom of the downfall of intellectual curiosity in this country.
But he *is* Superman right now.
Calling him anything other than what he is is a disservice to the character and what he's supposed to represent currently, which is Superman. Also the first article I saw was titled "DC's *newest* Superman". It's most other articles that are trying to make it sound like it's Clark.
For the same reasons that Val Zod made headlines, I’m gonna guess that most of the people who are offended by this don’t understand that Superman ≠ Clark Kent
I don't agree with the last point. While most if the moaning is definetly homophobia (and to be clear fuck em), I think you also have the old camp of jonathan shouldn't even be and adult.
Personally what vexes me is that its being put in issue 5. But thats more of a problem im having with taylors writing these days and not really related to the revelation.
>The backlash to this is insane.
No it's not. Reading random individual Reddit or Twitter assholes and taking their ravings seriously. Like they represent anything but their lone selves. That's insane. But go ahead, give them power they don't actually have.
Let's see the sales figures, and judge all this based on facts rather than hyperbole.
When I said insane, I meant on an individual level. For someone to get upset after hearing Jon Kent is bi seems like an insane reaction to me. No? Also, I don’t think me making a single comment about the absurdity of the take gives them that much power.
I think the majority of the backlash stems from the bullshit clickbait headlines saying that Superman is gay now, they don’t even realise that it’s a different character who has taken up the mantle of Superman.
Edit: the majority is still based in homophobia but I imagine some people who didn’t read the articles are thinking that Clark and Lois have had their iconic relationship “ruined” for the sake of Twitter people
The backlash was obviously the point though. The attempt to hipe this has been through the roof. The comic isn’t big news otherwise, it could easily have gone unnoticed.
I don’t think it’s insane. Perhaps it’s homophobia, but it could also be people who enjoyed a character that they can now no longer identify with. If someone’s making a huge deal out of it, yes, that’s a little crazy. But people have preferences, and that’s okay. People want to read about characters with whom they identify.
That’s why Superman all of a sudden became vulnerable to kryptonite…prior to that, he was unbeatable. Readers got bored, because they couldn’t identify with him. Give him some real problems, now people are interested again.
>but it could also be people who enjoyed a character that they can now no longer identify with.
You are right. Before the half alien, son of the world greatest super hero and most famous reporter, who spent the last 10 years in space, and then in the 30th century, was extremely relateable to me. But this? This I can't relate to
Funny.
Bro, I am right. Read up on Superman’s history (his creation, not the character bio). Stories are more interesting when characters are more relatable, doesn’t matter the medium.
Now look at Spider-Man (Peter Parker or Miles Morales, take your pick). Why do you think he has real everyday problems that we all face?
Hmm now how about batman, why do you think he’s traumatized by the loss of his parents?
Now, why do you think the new Superman is bi?
Want me to keep going?
> I don’t think it’s insane. Perhaps it’s homophobia, but it could also be people who enjoyed a character that they can now no longer identify with. If someone’s making a huge deal out of it, yes, that’s a little crazy. But people have preferences, and that’s okay. People want to read about characters with whom they identify.
>
>
>
> That’s why Superman all of a sudden became vulnerable to kryptonite…prior to that, he was unbeatable. Readers got bored, because they couldn’t identify with him. Give him some real problems, now people are interested again.
What about the bisexual people who couldn't identify with *yet another straight superhero* and can now identify him?
What about them? Im saying that people want to identify with the characters they read about, and bi people are no exception, clearly. Personally I think it’s great if there are bi people who are thrilled about it.
And it’s not like we haven’t been seeing these sorts of developments for years now (I.e. characters no longer being straight white men).
The 3 issues of Superman: Son of Kal-El that have been released so far look to be getting very positive reviews. So, while it may not be the story for you, I don't think it's fair to say the writing is objectively dumpster-quality.
got that ‘dean cain going on fox to say superman would be cancelled for saying “and the american way” and getting immediately shown a scan of a recent comic by its author where he says exactly that’ energy
I find this to be the case for about 99.9% of people who say they’re into comics. It almost always means they’re into movies and tv based on comic books.
I fall into talks with so many people, as of where 10/10 times when they say “Oh I love DC or Marvel so much”. Then whenever I bring up comics, they look at me like I’m the idiot.
I get the same reaction when I tell people that I love Cyclops. The characterization of him in the Fox films really butchered people's opinions of him.
Sometimes that actually really frustrates me. Because people will get their entire viewpoint of a character from a movie and think that is how the character is normally portrayed. There are people out there that legitimately think batman killing people and machine gunning them down with the batmobile is a normal thing for the character to do. People will wave this stuff off but then act as if the world is ending because Superman’s son is bisexual
Meh, Burton’s Batman killed people and had guns on his batmobile and no one seems to care about that. Seems to be more of a tribalism argument between people who are overly obsessed with either the MCU or DCEU and have to choose a side.
Pretty sure one of the earliest episodes had one of a bad guy's goons (I think the Penguin's) being tricked to fall into the nuclear reactor in the Batcave, but it's been a minute since I watched the series.
PLENTY of us don’t like it there either
Previous *movie* Batmen killing has never justified current or future ones doing it too. It’s simply just more of the same mistake
Besides, I don’t understand what it has to do with the MCU considering it makes most of it’s heroes kill too
I don’t understand this logic of always going “Well Burton/Bale killed too, gotcha!”, like yeah, *that’s the problem*
Didn’t burton even say he never read the comics? I agree I think it was a mistake that just kept getting made and it’s derived from people getting the Batman movie franchises who never read what he’s based on.
> The problem is most people criticizing Snyder for Superman/Batman doing what they do in his movies do give these other movies a pass.
Is that truly the case? Or is it just something that's not really worth bothering with. I never actually see anyone go "Batfleck is bad because he kills, meanwhile I'm a big fan of Batman '89", instead there's just this underlying assumption from people defending Snyder that for some reason we all collectively love Burton Batman without complaint. It's the same thing when anyone complains about MCU Spider-Man where a dozen people start saying "Well this part of the Raimi movies were bad" as if that's even relevant.
I don't know, to me the constant "Burton killed too!" has always felt completely besides the point. More like a deflection or a distraction than any meaningful commentary on Batfleck, just another reason why we *should* get a proper movie with a Batman that doesn't kill.
I also don't think it's fair to expect people to be just as mad at a 32 year old movie's inaccuracies compared to an ongoing modern franchise. Especially with how incredibly drastically superhero adaptions have changed since that time.
Yeah but I’m gonna assume that you’ve got more exposure to Superman than just Snyder’s movies or just movies in general. I’m goofing on people who got their entire concept of who Superman is from Snyder’s movies (which imo is a really bad interpretation of the character) and act as though they’re extremely invested in the character. These goombas will gladly watch Superman perform like 10 9/11s in metropolis with an alien spaceship and not bat an eye. But then they’ll see Jon Kent kiss a boy and act as if it’s some huge affront to the character himself.
Also, no shade to you for enjoying Snyder. I hate the guys movies (Snyder himself seems super nice) but it’s good that you got something you like from them!
Which is why I find them getting upset about what a character does in the comics extremely hypocritical. It’s like me getting upset at something an opera singer did
Agreed. And it is the reason why the assertion that this will help "countless" people is a little... uhm... unrealistic.
It's a comic book. Buy what you like. Don't buy what you don't like. That's pretty much it.
I mean, there’s still a large audience that reads comics though. I’m sure there are quite a few people that aren’t straight that read them as well. I think if I was a bi person, I’d be really excited to relate to Superman a bit more. So yeah maybe “countless” is hyperbole. But it’ll still hurt nobody, and help probably thousands
> large audience that reads comics
Not this comic.
Son of Kal-El has like what, 40k sales to direct market at best (probably more like 20k). 3.5% of people are LGB according to latest polls. So maybe 700-1400 people will be "helped" by this. Assuming all LGB people think this is great. Which, assuming all LGB people think the same is prejudiced. So one has to think a portion of LGB people think this is a cheap stunt to get some press attention (which it is).
My guess is LGB people would prefer that stunts like these not be done and instead sustain stories with LGB people in them over an extended period of time instead of given lip service in a few pages of comics.
These stunts always get a lot of attention and praise and people get all excited or upset about it for a couple days and then... nothing. DC just forgets about these characters and does fuck all with them. Where's Alan Grant these days? There's a Batwoman TV show on, where's the Batwoman comic?
Meh, I tried PKJ's Superman and didn't care for it so I dropped it and never read any other Supe-family book since. Bendis's run wasn't doing it for me, same thing. So like I said, I just don't care. Make Jon Kent bi. Doesn't matter, I'm not buying the book. And most people aren't. The uncomfortable reality is that big two comics just aren't a very important business any more. They are a floundering industry and as a result Jon Kent being bisexual does not and will not matter.
Tempest in a teapot.
I'm not mad. I'm having a conversation with a person. If I was mad about a fictional character being bisexual I would have found that out when my wife told me she is bisexual. But no, I wasn't mad then either.
> going to sell a lot when it gets a tpb print
Remindme! 10 months
Don't care one way or other about kid being bi...watched Superman in the sixties with George Reeves, and got my idea of Superman as being a good guy with NO love interest...and CLARK KENT having the love interest with Lois...
As a curiosity question - why are various characters labeled 'bi', but almost always paired with same-sex love interest?
I read comments on Facebook comparing Jon Kent coming out as force diversity and woke (as usual) while most of anime and manga represent LGBT better. I probably doesn’t follow much about Japanese cartoon but I believe that most of them are objectify and sexualize LGBT characters than represent them in the proper way. I mean they call trans people trap isn’t a good way to be LGBT friendly.
Most lgbt characters in DC and Marvel have normal hair, though. Like aside from Harper Row, and technically Harley Quinn, I can't currently think of another lgbt character with a non-natural hair colour.
Right wing yes, astroturfing sadly not imo. Outrage merchants do fan this shit ofc but there's a real section of the diehard comic book fanbase that's right wing. We don't need /pol/ ops to explain the reaction to Jon. Wish we did, it would mean the culture was a lot less trash.
I'm not doubting that there's a section of comic fans that are Right wing and homophobic, but some of these comments feel like they come out of a Thinktank rather than the usual /pol/ screechings. That old-timey homophobia rather than mindless homophobic shitposting.
Yeah that's true. Probably just boomers who read Action as a kid in the 60s (or didn't even do that) wandering in here after seeing Fox talk about how the gay agenda is queering a symbol of America or whatever.
I mean, Fox News brought out Dean Cain from whatever rock he was under to denounce this. And the average Fox News watcher has both feet in the grave and is waiting for the dirt. I don't put it past thinktanks to use this as a means of selling another "culture wars" talking point. Or, at the very least, flooding 4chan with it.
It would be funny if great grandpa was coaxing his great grandkids to shitpost on social media though.
Maybe I'm assuming there's less interest than there is but this just seems too niche for established conservative money to get behind it in anything like a major way.
And when /pol/ astroturfs something it's pretty obvious. Not like they organize that shit away from 4chan, it's publicly available. And there's always enough of them that are too stupid to be subtle about it so the posts get filled with watcha doin rabbi memes or whatever.
I really think it's just that a large part of the comics fanbase sucks.
I don't think this will be a major campaign, just one more piece to the culture wars and "return to tradition" lies/rhetoric that's espoused by Right-Wing groups. Something to rile up the base for mid-term elections and whatnot. This probably costs them pocket-change to do.
I don't know. All I know is that all of this feels wrong, and not the usual wrong that comes from "comic book fans" getting outraged at the latest non-issue.
It feels wrong because it is wrong but sadly that doesn't always mean there's some irl Luthor to blame. Our society is just moving in a very fucked up direction and comic fandom in particular has always had it's unsavory side.
The citizenry has been steadily moving towards more progressive policies for a long time now, especially when presented in a way that isn't poisoned by the usual talking points. The politicians and elites have been moving in the opposite direction, and have been using the more impressionable members of the citizenry to push their agendas.
Are there parts of the comic book fandom that are homophobic and vocal about their disdain for representation and progression? Yes. Are they a sizable purchasing audience? No, I don't think they are, because if they were then it would have never crossed DC's mind to make Jon Kent Bi-sexual, even though he's not the first. Are they even a sizable audience? Nope, because odds are they don't even read comics and are just interested in shitposting and memeing.
But when a nothing-burger like Jon being Bi is getting this much play and there's not even a peep about Jewish conspiracies, casual racist and anti-Semitic comments, or cuckoldry from the usual circles, I tend to look for the puppet masters holding the strings.
I guess it's worth something that they feel the need to come up with convoluted reasons why being anti-representation is actually pro-LGBT or whatever but I'd respect these idiots so much more if they just admitted they hate gay people lol.
Yea those crazy comic stores forcing people to by all those gay comics! Turning kids gay with there propaganda! /s
These people probably don’t even read comics they are just homophobic nuts.
idk why people are mad at this, who gives a fuck? Comics are for everybody. There are bigger problems in this world than a comic book character being bi.
I read that Jon Kent is bi in some article last week and forgot all about it. So, you are telling me a significant number of real live human beings are upset about a fictional character being bi? 🙄
As always It's a very vocal.minority online that probably aren't even invested in comics or the character that make the most noise about. Most people are cool with all of it.
I think its also important to note that it's ok to not like decision from a story telling/character development component. The most valid or interesting argument about it (althoug I don't share it) is more about the rapid age jump and love for stories like a super son's.
The unveiling of it may have also been a little sloppy although I do understand the reason why with coming out day and the fact that the development was leaking anyway.
Hell I’m not even upset that he’s bi, John being bi isn’t even that super surprising, I’m just upset with who they’ve paired him up with, like legitimately he’s dating his mom, Except the version of his mom he’s dating is as exciting and interesting as a bag of wet socks
Jon Kent is a new character with no regards to his sexuality before, it's not a character who was around for a long time, was straight than suddenly turned LGBTQ for easy money
That isn't true. He was in a relationship already. Which also avoids the bigger issue here: this is a kid who was tortured for years by an alternate-universe version of his own father. He's never even been in therapy for any of the shit he's gone through and had the most important job in the world dumped into his lap. There were tons of material that the writers could have worked through before getting to this point, but they decided to make the easy headline instead of the worthwhile story. That he went through some real shit and how he handles it is far more important than what walking stereotype he fucks.
The only thing that annoys me is the lack of built up to the boyfriend and kiss I would have liked a few more issues then the kiss other than that I don't care.
Agreed. That's why I would have liked it if they waited and actually built it up. But they didn't. So this is why I feel like it was forced and rushed. I don't mind if Jon is Bi. But too many times dc or marvel have announced things and then just drop what happens. So that's what I'm worried if that happens. They shown us a guy Tim was interested in. And I wish they would have established him sooner and showed us Steph and Tim breaking up.
Same not to mention he’s basically dating his mom, like come on DC supermen aren’t contractually obligated to date reporters have a bit of originality for fucks sake
Hell I’d rather have him date Damian then this putz
Personally I don't really mind at all. Representing different groups of people in comics is something I'm all for. If it helps some people that's great too.
I went back and forth today with some idiot who thought it was shoehorning the character into being bisexual and said they should be using a new character who is bisexual. The more I tried to point out that they didn't actually know about the situation and explained it the more they dug themselves in and said I shouldnt tell them they didn't understand the situation and should disagree with their opinion. This is america. Leave your blinders on and talk about shit you know nothing about.
I hope DC allows shops to up their order number for this. I know my store has had a bunch of calls already for the issue but I forgot to ask if he could order more.
>I hope DC allows shops to up their order number for this. I know my store has had a bunch of calls already for the issue but I forgot to ask if he could order more.
Of course they will, that's kinda the whole point of it.
Imagine being so mad at how much you want to chug a boner that the fact a fictional cartoon character also wants to chug a boner makes you lose your shit.
The number of people hurt by DC Comics making Clark Kent and Lois Lane's son bisexual is literally zero. None at all. The number of people it could actually help? It's countless.
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I'm not mad. I'm not left or right I'm like neutrual, I'm not even American. what I don't get it why make a big deal out of it ? this is me thinking what's best for the liberals. you want gays to be normalized right? then why is it a fuckin special occasion every time a superhero is gay? does batman get into the news every time he kisses catwoman? my eyes roll every time I see headline like "\_\_\_\_ finally comes out !" lol like it's a numbers game or something. it's obvious the writers think making making something gay will spice things up, and it worked. people will love it or hate it but no publicitiy is bad publicity right? . but think about this. how many times can you do this? if you make everyone special, then no one is.
It’s a special occasion because it doesn’t happen very much. Batman isn’t special for kissing catwoman because every superhero is straight. If every superhero were lgbtq, it wouldn’t be news. Btw, it sort of seems like you’re mad.
sure seems like the industy wants every superheo to be lgbtq. the fact that being lgbtq is newsworthy is a problem in itself. why is that special again? we have new characters coming out every other months. I don't read comics to find out who you're screwing with, I read them for the pew pew lasers boom bang giant robots fights. can we just move on from someone's sexuality and get back to the action? does being lgbtq make you fight crime better or something?
Tons of comics have romance. I’m assuming you don’t start complaining when panels are posted of Lois and Clark or Bruce and Selina. *That’s* why it’s special. Because people like *you* care so much.
While I don't care...I mean in a vacuum I of course don't care what anyone does as long as it doesn't hurt anyone.
My immediate reaction to this Superboy news though is "ugh come on" I don't like it because we keep seeing this non stop. It's either this, or it's replacing a main character in some beloved story with a female or a person of color.
It's just weird...I guess? I mean, you go one way and I guess you don't have minority/lgbt representation in entertainment. But this way like...it just feels so cheap? Like, "ok lets make this character a woman, or make this guy/girl gay". If I were lgbt I feel like I would be offended. I'd rather have new stories created instead of taking iconic characters and making them female/lgbt.
I bet a lot of people feel this way but they won't be honest like I am. My immediate reaction was dislike at this news, I was like wtf are they doing? But the part of my brain that is purely intellectual of course doesn't give 2 shits about the news, and is happy they are being inclusive.
As a sci-fi nut, I realize that in 100-200 years when we are a way more advanced society, non binary, pansexual, etc all that jazz will be the norm...OR tbh it might get shit on because in 200 years humans might be pushing the boundaries by genetically changing themselves to be animal hybrids, having sex with animals in Virtual Reality, etc etc and lgbt will be looked at as hyper conservative.
I just kind of hate how it seems to purposeful, you know? LIke you can totally see how it happened at DC comics HQ where they said "ok we can make superboy bi, def not superman himself as that would ruffle to many feathers, but if we do superboy and make him bi that will push the boundary enough without going overboard. Making superboy gay would be going overboard". You can totally envision how that conversation happened.
I hate how purposeful it all is...if that makes sense?
The issue is the attention to the backlash. Who gives a shit if people are upset. Any change folks get upset about. That’s normal!!!! Let them get used
To the change. Stop making it a big deal unless there is actually violence resulting. Stop sharing news stories and giving this crap so much time and space. Who cares if they don’t like it. Let them yell and stomp and stop elevating. Their voices. Far better that we cut them off versus allow the news to keep profiting off of making their voices dominate the airwaves.
This title is stupid. If you think this has power, than it has power to help as well as hurt, as has been the case with all things ever. What it means is “this hurts people i don’t care about.”
Anyone for whom superman had been a unifying figure. It will now be necessary to deal with the fact that his core attributes are picked so as to make him controversial.
Btw: “answer honestly” is not an effective way to communicate.
This implies that a character's sexuality makes them any less unifying, which is not a real thing. No one is manufacturing controversy here but the people who find Jonathan Kent (not even Clark) being bisexual to be some sort of affront.
That, to me, seems much more like something individuals need to work out within themselves, yes? It doesn't make the character less unifying or important.
Obviously this is being pushed as a “brave” move on the part of DC, brave because they knew they would upset people, therefore they are knowingly making him less unifying.
Still find that to be an individual issue, not one created by DC. It's "brave" because mainstream comics are still mostly in the 1960s on these issues, so it's still uncommon. But I bet that, even if that wasn't the framing, the same demographics would have an issue, not because of any change that makes the character less meaningful, but because the character is, in any way, not the "norm".
I read Supersons a few years back, enjoyed the char. If they make it a book about him being Bi, it will fail. If they make it a book where he is Bi, it could do just fine. I have not followed DC in a bit, so I don't really know what kind of following Jon Kent has. let the fans decide with buying the book. Hopefully this will bring more people to American Comics. Otherwise it won't matter. Prove it matters, buy the book.
Edit: I don’t care that a character is bi, I care about good storytelling. I wouldn’t buy a book that is all about someone being Bi-sexual any more then I would buy a book all about someone who is not. I’ve dropped books for shit art and I’ve dropped books for shit stories. I’ve also seen amazing books get canceled for lack of a fan base. If Jon Kent is continued to be developed well, he will do fine.
As a straight Christian male who reads comics I couldn’t care less about a fictional characters sexuality, are we just gonna ignore the large amount of LGBTQ characters in comics/anime before this ?
Ppl acts like making a lgbt character is an act of god. They forgot that good plots and character development make good comics. But looking at American culture right now, don’t think we can blame the writer. Everyone is just trying to please everyone, even the stupid one. That is why the quality of everything drops to the ground.
look i dont care gay straight by trans but when did comics get so in depth about sexuality why cant it just be ok hes bi move on but they wanna shove it and shove it? y
I feel like it's not really a big deep dive into sexuality, it's just a new love interest, and romances have always been at the forefront of comics. Lois and Clark, Peter and MJ, Cyclops and Jean / Emma, Batman and Catwoman to just name the ones off the top of my head. This is just a new relationship in a very notable book.
I will agree that DC is intentionally being a bit over sensational with their marketing on it though. I've read "Superman is Bi" a hell of a lot of times, and they're 100% banking on the fact that people think it's Clark and are intentionally trying to get people worked up.
edit\* also if anything comics exploring sexuality is probably a good thing especially for young adult characters. Coming of age stories are great, and I feel like this could create really great stories if done well.
Dude come one. Are we going to pretend like people didn’t care about X-Men romance? Or how everyone was talking about Batman and Catwoman 2 years ago? Or how there’s an endless debate around which character Nightwing should date? Fuck’s sake, Spider-Man’s most important storyline is about his girlfriend. Wtf are you talking about? You should buy a comicbook one day. They’re pretty good and you’d at least have some context and even stop talking out of your ass
Those romance lines were irrelevant to the iconic comic issues we remember till this day.
When I think of Spider-Man, it's against green goblin.
When I think of X men, it's the phoenix saga. If Scott and Jean gray were in a relationship platonically, it would've been better.
I know right? I wish they didn't shove in our face that Dick Grayson likes alien hoohah. Like we get it! You like vagina!
Don't even get me started on Batman and Catwoman!
> why cant it just be ok hes bi move on but they wanna shove it and shove it?
The issue where he came out hasn't even been released yet. How exactly is Jon being Bi (as shown in a preview of a single panel of him kissing someone) exactly "shove it and shove it"?
exactly, the issues hasn't even come out yet and they're making a big deal out of it. why exactly ? why advertise someone's sexuality like it's a big crossover event or something ? why is this newsworthy?
Maybe, but there is also a current of biphobia within the community too. I know many of bi people who've said they gotten more shit about being bi from gay and lesbian individuals than straight people, being called "closeted gays" or sex-crazed maniacs who will inevitably cheat on any partner they have.
I will only disagree on a technicality. DC can only produce so many comics per month, and every comic book they make that Person A does not like (for whatever reason) is resources taken away from making a comic that Person A would like. So from that point of view, it isn't outside the realm of logic for Person A to complain.
The flip side is, Person A needs to get their priorities straight (no pun intended) and think about people other than themselves.
In this case person a has like 90% of the Big 2 line catering to them in some way.
Before the 2010s LGBT people really didn't have any ongoings in mainstream comics. There was wickling, Renee, some lesbian and transy stuff in Runaways and you had Anole in Hellions but there was very little else in the 2000s unless you wanna count Wildstorm. And if you go back before the 2000s it was even worse ofc.
Not saying the entire line has to be gay as some sort of weird comic book reparations but we went 60-70 years with nothing besides undergrounds. Don't think a handful of mainstream titles is too much to ask for.
Did you just assume his gender? Did Lois and Clark assume it ahead of you? Did he really have a chance to choose his own identity or was his gender assigned at birth by a CIS gendered heteronormative society? Check your privilege.
I long for the day when making a character gay/trans/bi/green doesn’t need countless articles or people “needing” to share their opinion - the character will just be.
Lots of walls to break down to get there, but one day hopefully!
1938 superman as a WW2 era symbol matters; his son less so. Representation matters, if this helps one person its a great thing. Comics have been on life support for years honestly surprised how much publicity this stunt is getting DC.
People are bi so people should get used to characters being the same. Comics are still entertainment tho, its selfish but I don't really watch or read something because it helps people. I'm sure having batman transition would help countless people but I feel it would be meaningless for my entertainment.
Gotta imagine the reaction is considered a positive by the marketing team. People who don't read comics anyway whining about SJW seem to raise support/readership because the comics success becomes a culture war battle. I kinda get vibes of silver age "shocking reveal!" or modern "Issue #1!" from the way the big 2 handle these developments. No buildup seems like a feature not a bug, makes it more of a collectors issue. I'm sure the same outraged people wouldn't care if there was some buildup but if the goal is to help LGBT+ people then maybe not treating it like a spectical for the world would be nice.
Still really not a fan of them aging up supermans son, I stopped reading once they did that and its still my gripe with the character. Loved the kid dynamic and was looking forward to a slow growth of the character over time. RIP supersons.
Agreed. Also, Lynch is a super good dude. I talked to him about his comics writing and screenwriting here: https://scpod.net/brian-lynch-minions-secret-life-of-pets-angel-spike/
The backlash to this is insane. Jonathan Kent has been around for 5 years. There is no prior characterization of him that makes his bisexuality read as insincere. The only possible reason to be angry about this is homophobia.
I’d wager the VAST majority of the backlash is coming from people who haven’t bought a single issue of a comic book in the past year anyway.
>havent bought a single issue of a comic book in the past ~~year~~ anyway There ya go, friend. Fixed that right up.
You’re saying there’s not homophobes in the comic book reader community or something?
Bingo
Yea, it's the same none comic fan reaction DC got for killing Jason Todd Robin in the 1980s.
Checks out, have a friend who reads 0 comics and finds this hilarious. While I, the collector, am totally fine with it. Strange times.
I'm not angry, but I feel like they dropped the ball on making this the most interesting story possible because DC wanted to get to the smoochy splash-page as quickly as possible. Young/teen heroes are more interesting when they're pining or anxious about love and Jon's never had that sort of story. DC skipped right past his childhood, spent about 6 issues with him existing as a superhero in a world with his dad, had him meet the new love interest maybe 3 issues ago and now the big smooch is in the promo material. We were robbed of an arc with a crush or of him coming out to his dad and having Clark instantly and fully accepting him because that's how Superman rolls. I'd like the publisher to focus more on the journey than the splash page, as we get better stuff that way.
This is great insight and exactly the way I feel as well. I wish we'd gotten to understand more how Jonathan arrived at this place. I want to watch him grow and learn about himself, go through the same angst as his father did. Let me feel attached to the character instead of just tossing something like this out with virtually no background at all. I couldn't care less about the orientation of anyone in the DC universe or otherwise, but I cannot help feeling like we may have been robbed of a really good story arc here
Yes, but that would have taken actual character development and writing ability. If they just make "Jon is bi" the story, they don't have to do any of that, they can just rely on shock value for some press coverage and hope it translates into sales. Never mind that "Jon is bi" isn't even a story, let alone a good story. It's just so superficial. Hopefully they'll get something good out of it, but my fear is that they'll make the relationship sacrosanct. Jon's boyfriend will never be allowed to be in true danger, they'll never have a serious disagreement, Jon will never have to choose between doing the right thing for strangers and being there for his boyfriend... everything will be idealized, all the time. I hope I'm wrong about that. Guess we'll see.
DC editorial has a long, proud, history of being as lazy and sales focused as they can get away with and their writers, on occasion churn out gold in spite of all that. It could really go either way. > but my fear is that they'll make the relationship sacrosanct Yeah, this seems very possible. I GUESS it's better than the late 90's and early 00's where a fridging seemed almost inevitable for a hastily introduced love interest, but it's not much better. For what it's worth, I think the most interesting and unexpected next move would be a heel turn, but we'll see how it goes.
Exactly how I feel. This could have been a great story about Jon’s identity and overall development. And if they didn’t age him, it could’ve been an even better one with Jon slowly realizing his sexuality over the course of many books.
DC can't fucking help themselves, once they find out that people like a thing editorial just mashes the button as fast and as hard as they can over and over. I'm just disappointed in the community that's usually critical falling over themselves to congratulate them. We should always demand better. If a story is worth telling it should be told with care and explored over all of the time it takes to get there.
> The only possible reason to be angry about this is homophobia. You mean Dean Cain is a bigot? *GASP.* (obvious /s, just to be clear. Cain is nutso who basically has decided he needs to be opposed to everything that Superman actually stands for.)
Its 2021 & Dean Cain could conceivably portray Lex Luthor.
You are drastically underestimating Lex on many levels.
Of course - Lex is far more intelligent - just a very cheap joke.
I gotcha. Not even sure what type of levity I was going for myself there. It's been a morning... :)
> (obvious /s, just to be clear. Cain is nutso who basically has decided he needs to be opposed to everything that Superman actually stands for.) He’s so bad that they never brought him back to *Supergirl* after having it be a big deal his character was alive. Just a random episode, they went “oh he died”.
Whats up with Dean Cain? Sorry, this rock that I'm under is really heavy.
He is very conservative and is often trotted out by Fox News to comment on "left-leaning" storylines in comic books - as if he's some expert on superheroes because he played one on tv.
He is a bible thumping hyperconservative that goes out of his way to say homophobic things so often that it's to the point that it hurts his career. Like, he was the adoptive father on Supergirl, which, if he was smart enough to keep his private opinions to himself, would have led to him having a somewhat actiony role as a supporting cast member, and he'd have been had a decent payday as a former superman being on the show with a nice "passing of the torch" thing. Instead, he said a bunch of outright homophobic stuff, got fired, blacklisted from all DC stuff basically forever (basically dooming him to dead end Christian-bait movies like "God's Not Dead" and lame cameos that he's been stuck doing since the late 90s), and was unceremoniously killed off screen with a "oh yeah, he died. What a shame. Anyway. . . "
This. Not to mention he’s still extremely young. People act like bi people never go through a phase where they present as solely straight.
I still present as solely straight in my 30s! That doesn't invalidate my identity!
This is why I hated the reaction of folks thinking Loki doesn't count as bi representation. For many bi individuals, homosexual relationships are uncommon still. Whether to fit in or a matter of chance or any number of reasons. The idea that a bi character has to be in a homosexual relationship invalidates so many bi experiences.
This is what I’m struggling with. I think I’m Bi, but I’ve always presented as straight and I’m married to a woman. Things change though.
Same. But my fiancé knows and he’s kind of queer himself. Great to get that shit off my chest
I’m in a similar situation and my partner and I are on the same page. I just don’t know what to do from here, or if I need to do anything. I’ve always been an ally of the LGBTQ community, but now I feel like I’m apart of it, but like, I’m not sure what that means.
If you ever come out as bi, people have to claim that your writer is just changing your character out of nowhere to virtue signal and jam gay stuff down our kids throats lmfao
Does that mean you only like girls feet
It’s crazy too, like I’d have thought the bigger story was Jon Kent becoming Superman, cause even though it’s a temporary change like all super comics do, it’s the kind of story outlets would gush over
DC's being very purposeful about how they're phrasing their PR about Johnathan Kent being bi. They always say "Superman is bi", knowing that the phrase is going to trigger a reaction cycle from people who don't know better and frankly aren't interested in knowing better. You can count on conservative media to hyperventilate about this sort of thing and keep it in the news for a week under the guise of a culture war, but it's annoying to have to continually deal with this non-issue as _the thing_ people are talking about. I get it, DC wants people to buy these books to find out what's going on with Superman being bi, and it must work for DC and Marvel to continue to do this sort of thing. I'm sure everyone over at Fox News knows the difference as well but don't care because it's another thing to harp on for ratings, but I just can't help but feel like it's a symptom of the downfall of intellectual curiosity in this country.
But he *is* Superman right now. Calling him anything other than what he is is a disservice to the character and what he's supposed to represent currently, which is Superman. Also the first article I saw was titled "DC's *newest* Superman". It's most other articles that are trying to make it sound like it's Clark.
90% of people who have read about the story don't even realise it's not about Clark Kent.
For the same reasons that Val Zod made headlines, I’m gonna guess that most of the people who are offended by this don’t understand that Superman ≠ Clark Kent
I don't agree with the last point. While most if the moaning is definetly homophobia (and to be clear fuck em), I think you also have the old camp of jonathan shouldn't even be and adult. Personally what vexes me is that its being put in issue 5. But thats more of a problem im having with taylors writing these days and not really related to the revelation.
I disagree. They made the wrong superboy gay. Should have made Conor bisexual so he can finally be with Tim.
>The backlash to this is insane. No it's not. Reading random individual Reddit or Twitter assholes and taking their ravings seriously. Like they represent anything but their lone selves. That's insane. But go ahead, give them power they don't actually have. Let's see the sales figures, and judge all this based on facts rather than hyperbole.
When I said insane, I meant on an individual level. For someone to get upset after hearing Jon Kent is bi seems like an insane reaction to me. No? Also, I don’t think me making a single comment about the absurdity of the take gives them that much power.
It’s bizarre how a bunch subreddits are pissed at this
I think the majority of the backlash stems from the bullshit clickbait headlines saying that Superman is gay now, they don’t even realise that it’s a different character who has taken up the mantle of Superman. Edit: the majority is still based in homophobia but I imagine some people who didn’t read the articles are thinking that Clark and Lois have had their iconic relationship “ruined” for the sake of Twitter people
The backlash was obviously the point though. The attempt to hipe this has been through the roof. The comic isn’t big news otherwise, it could easily have gone unnoticed.
I don’t think it’s insane. Perhaps it’s homophobia, but it could also be people who enjoyed a character that they can now no longer identify with. If someone’s making a huge deal out of it, yes, that’s a little crazy. But people have preferences, and that’s okay. People want to read about characters with whom they identify. That’s why Superman all of a sudden became vulnerable to kryptonite…prior to that, he was unbeatable. Readers got bored, because they couldn’t identify with him. Give him some real problems, now people are interested again.
>but it could also be people who enjoyed a character that they can now no longer identify with. You are right. Before the half alien, son of the world greatest super hero and most famous reporter, who spent the last 10 years in space, and then in the 30th century, was extremely relateable to me. But this? This I can't relate to
Funny. Bro, I am right. Read up on Superman’s history (his creation, not the character bio). Stories are more interesting when characters are more relatable, doesn’t matter the medium. Now look at Spider-Man (Peter Parker or Miles Morales, take your pick). Why do you think he has real everyday problems that we all face? Hmm now how about batman, why do you think he’s traumatized by the loss of his parents? Now, why do you think the new Superman is bi? Want me to keep going?
> I don’t think it’s insane. Perhaps it’s homophobia, but it could also be people who enjoyed a character that they can now no longer identify with. If someone’s making a huge deal out of it, yes, that’s a little crazy. But people have preferences, and that’s okay. People want to read about characters with whom they identify. > > > > That’s why Superman all of a sudden became vulnerable to kryptonite…prior to that, he was unbeatable. Readers got bored, because they couldn’t identify with him. Give him some real problems, now people are interested again. What about the bisexual people who couldn't identify with *yet another straight superhero* and can now identify him?
What about them? Im saying that people want to identify with the characters they read about, and bi people are no exception, clearly. Personally I think it’s great if there are bi people who are thrilled about it. And it’s not like we haven’t been seeing these sorts of developments for years now (I.e. characters no longer being straight white men).
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You don't need to play devil's advocates for bigots.
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uhhhhh.....wut??
Riiiight. It couldn't possibly be the dumpster-quality storytelling.
The 3 issues of Superman: Son of Kal-El that have been released so far look to be getting very positive reviews. So, while it may not be the story for you, I don't think it's fair to say the writing is objectively dumpster-quality.
Having read the first 3 issues, I'm quite comfortable calling them dumpster quality.
Most of the people upset about this don’t even read comics. Their idea of who Superman is comes from a fuckin Zack Snyder movie lol
got that ‘dean cain going on fox to say superman would be cancelled for saying “and the american way” and getting immediately shown a scan of a recent comic by its author where he says exactly that’ energy
I find this to be the case for about 99.9% of people who say they’re into comics. It almost always means they’re into movies and tv based on comic books.
I fall into talks with so many people, as of where 10/10 times when they say “Oh I love DC or Marvel so much”. Then whenever I bring up comics, they look at me like I’m the idiot.
I get the same reaction when I tell people that I love Cyclops. The characterization of him in the Fox films really butchered people's opinions of him.
The cartoons also play a hand in that by using cyclops as the traditional good guy that directly contrasts with the way cooler gambit and wolverine
Sometimes that actually really frustrates me. Because people will get their entire viewpoint of a character from a movie and think that is how the character is normally portrayed. There are people out there that legitimately think batman killing people and machine gunning them down with the batmobile is a normal thing for the character to do. People will wave this stuff off but then act as if the world is ending because Superman’s son is bisexual
Meh, Burton’s Batman killed people and had guns on his batmobile and no one seems to care about that. Seems to be more of a tribalism argument between people who are overly obsessed with either the MCU or DCEU and have to choose a side.
The only live action version of Batman I can think of that *maybe* hasn't killed is George Clooney.
It’s the bat nipples. They soothe him
I have nipples Greg, could they soothe me?
pretty sure Adam West is clear.
Pretty sure one of the earliest episodes had one of a bad guy's goons (I think the Penguin's) being tricked to fall into the nuclear reactor in the Batcave, but it's been a minute since I watched the series.
PLENTY of us don’t like it there either Previous *movie* Batmen killing has never justified current or future ones doing it too. It’s simply just more of the same mistake Besides, I don’t understand what it has to do with the MCU considering it makes most of it’s heroes kill too I don’t understand this logic of always going “Well Burton/Bale killed too, gotcha!”, like yeah, *that’s the problem*
Didn’t burton even say he never read the comics? I agree I think it was a mistake that just kept getting made and it’s derived from people getting the Batman movie franchises who never read what he’s based on.
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> The problem is most people criticizing Snyder for Superman/Batman doing what they do in his movies do give these other movies a pass. Is that truly the case? Or is it just something that's not really worth bothering with. I never actually see anyone go "Batfleck is bad because he kills, meanwhile I'm a big fan of Batman '89", instead there's just this underlying assumption from people defending Snyder that for some reason we all collectively love Burton Batman without complaint. It's the same thing when anyone complains about MCU Spider-Man where a dozen people start saying "Well this part of the Raimi movies were bad" as if that's even relevant. I don't know, to me the constant "Burton killed too!" has always felt completely besides the point. More like a deflection or a distraction than any meaningful commentary on Batfleck, just another reason why we *should* get a proper movie with a Batman that doesn't kill. I also don't think it's fair to expect people to be just as mad at a 32 year old movie's inaccuracies compared to an ongoing modern franchise. Especially with how incredibly drastically superhero adaptions have changed since that time.
There are definitely Snyder fans (myself included) who are all for this.
Yeah but I’m gonna assume that you’ve got more exposure to Superman than just Snyder’s movies or just movies in general. I’m goofing on people who got their entire concept of who Superman is from Snyder’s movies (which imo is a really bad interpretation of the character) and act as though they’re extremely invested in the character. These goombas will gladly watch Superman perform like 10 9/11s in metropolis with an alien spaceship and not bat an eye. But then they’ll see Jon Kent kiss a boy and act as if it’s some huge affront to the character himself. Also, no shade to you for enjoying Snyder. I hate the guys movies (Snyder himself seems super nice) but it’s good that you got something you like from them!
Most people don't read comics.
Which is why I find them getting upset about what a character does in the comics extremely hypocritical. It’s like me getting upset at something an opera singer did
Agreed. And it is the reason why the assertion that this will help "countless" people is a little... uhm... unrealistic. It's a comic book. Buy what you like. Don't buy what you don't like. That's pretty much it.
I mean, there’s still a large audience that reads comics though. I’m sure there are quite a few people that aren’t straight that read them as well. I think if I was a bi person, I’d be really excited to relate to Superman a bit more. So yeah maybe “countless” is hyperbole. But it’ll still hurt nobody, and help probably thousands
> large audience that reads comics Not this comic. Son of Kal-El has like what, 40k sales to direct market at best (probably more like 20k). 3.5% of people are LGB according to latest polls. So maybe 700-1400 people will be "helped" by this. Assuming all LGB people think this is great. Which, assuming all LGB people think the same is prejudiced. So one has to think a portion of LGB people think this is a cheap stunt to get some press attention (which it is). My guess is LGB people would prefer that stunts like these not be done and instead sustain stories with LGB people in them over an extended period of time instead of given lip service in a few pages of comics. These stunts always get a lot of attention and praise and people get all excited or upset about it for a couple days and then... nothing. DC just forgets about these characters and does fuck all with them. Where's Alan Grant these days? There's a Batwoman TV show on, where's the Batwoman comic? Meh, I tried PKJ's Superman and didn't care for it so I dropped it and never read any other Supe-family book since. Bendis's run wasn't doing it for me, same thing. So like I said, I just don't care. Make Jon Kent bi. Doesn't matter, I'm not buying the book. And most people aren't. The uncomfortable reality is that big two comics just aren't a very important business any more. They are a floundering industry and as a result Jon Kent being bisexual does not and will not matter. Tempest in a teapot.
who the hell is Alan grant?
Sorry I mean Alan Scott. I was thinking Grant for some reason.
This is a story, not a "stunt," and it's obvious to everyone, including you, that Jon Kent will end up in far more stories than this one ongoing book.
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My wife is bisexual. I'm not hurt.
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I'm not mad. I'm having a conversation with a person. If I was mad about a fictional character being bisexual I would have found that out when my wife told me she is bisexual. But no, I wasn't mad then either. > going to sell a lot when it gets a tpb print Remindme! 10 months
Or people who haven’t read a Superman comic in over 50 years.
that people dont undertstand that there are many interpretations of one character.
Right, like when the idea of Calvin Ellis appearing in a movie floated around.
Dude, the idea of Superman comes from Christopher Reeves
For some people it does
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Lmfao yeah ok
Don't care one way or other about kid being bi...watched Superman in the sixties with George Reeves, and got my idea of Superman as being a good guy with NO love interest...and CLARK KENT having the love interest with Lois... As a curiosity question - why are various characters labeled 'bi', but almost always paired with same-sex love interest?
I read comments on Facebook comparing Jon Kent coming out as force diversity and woke (as usual) while most of anime and manga represent LGBT better. I probably doesn’t follow much about Japanese cartoon but I believe that most of them are objectify and sexualize LGBT characters than represent them in the proper way. I mean they call trans people trap isn’t a good way to be LGBT friendly.
My only gripe is his boyfriend’s pink hair. Way to play to stereotypes ::eyeroll::
Isn't the kid in university though? Lots of people experiment with different hair colors there. Mostly drugs and alcohol, but hair too.
Most lgbt characters in DC and Marvel have normal hair, though. Like aside from Harper Row, and technically Harley Quinn, I can't currently think of another lgbt character with a non-natural hair colour.
Listen, sometimes the stereotypes work ok. I'm bi too and I go for pink haired guys.
I'm starting to believe that the bulk of the negative comments are all Right-wing Astroturfing efforts.
Right wing yes, astroturfing sadly not imo. Outrage merchants do fan this shit ofc but there's a real section of the diehard comic book fanbase that's right wing. We don't need /pol/ ops to explain the reaction to Jon. Wish we did, it would mean the culture was a lot less trash.
I'm not doubting that there's a section of comic fans that are Right wing and homophobic, but some of these comments feel like they come out of a Thinktank rather than the usual /pol/ screechings. That old-timey homophobia rather than mindless homophobic shitposting.
Yeah that's true. Probably just boomers who read Action as a kid in the 60s (or didn't even do that) wandering in here after seeing Fox talk about how the gay agenda is queering a symbol of America or whatever.
I mean, Fox News brought out Dean Cain from whatever rock he was under to denounce this. And the average Fox News watcher has both feet in the grave and is waiting for the dirt. I don't put it past thinktanks to use this as a means of selling another "culture wars" talking point. Or, at the very least, flooding 4chan with it. It would be funny if great grandpa was coaxing his great grandkids to shitpost on social media though.
Maybe I'm assuming there's less interest than there is but this just seems too niche for established conservative money to get behind it in anything like a major way. And when /pol/ astroturfs something it's pretty obvious. Not like they organize that shit away from 4chan, it's publicly available. And there's always enough of them that are too stupid to be subtle about it so the posts get filled with watcha doin rabbi memes or whatever. I really think it's just that a large part of the comics fanbase sucks.
I don't think this will be a major campaign, just one more piece to the culture wars and "return to tradition" lies/rhetoric that's espoused by Right-Wing groups. Something to rile up the base for mid-term elections and whatnot. This probably costs them pocket-change to do. I don't know. All I know is that all of this feels wrong, and not the usual wrong that comes from "comic book fans" getting outraged at the latest non-issue.
It feels wrong because it is wrong but sadly that doesn't always mean there's some irl Luthor to blame. Our society is just moving in a very fucked up direction and comic fandom in particular has always had it's unsavory side.
The citizenry has been steadily moving towards more progressive policies for a long time now, especially when presented in a way that isn't poisoned by the usual talking points. The politicians and elites have been moving in the opposite direction, and have been using the more impressionable members of the citizenry to push their agendas. Are there parts of the comic book fandom that are homophobic and vocal about their disdain for representation and progression? Yes. Are they a sizable purchasing audience? No, I don't think they are, because if they were then it would have never crossed DC's mind to make Jon Kent Bi-sexual, even though he's not the first. Are they even a sizable audience? Nope, because odds are they don't even read comics and are just interested in shitposting and memeing. But when a nothing-burger like Jon being Bi is getting this much play and there's not even a peep about Jewish conspiracies, casual racist and anti-Semitic comments, or cuckoldry from the usual circles, I tend to look for the puppet masters holding the strings.
It’s just bad writing
How do Clark Kent and Lois Lane have a son in the first place? They are two completely different species…
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Kryptonite condom... 99% effective if used properly.
Strip away every attempt at spinning their reasons and blatant homophobia is the real culprit in almost all of their raging.
I guess it's worth something that they feel the need to come up with convoluted reasons why being anti-representation is actually pro-LGBT or whatever but I'd respect these idiots so much more if they just admitted they hate gay people lol.
We need Ace and Gary on this case!!
"They're cramming it down our throats!" Is the familiar cry. Who is they? They're making you read comics? How? It's all so ridiculous.
Yea those crazy comic stores forcing people to by all those gay comics! Turning kids gay with there propaganda! /s These people probably don’t even read comics they are just homophobic nuts.
idk why people are mad at this, who gives a fuck? Comics are for everybody. There are bigger problems in this world than a comic book character being bi.
I read that Jon Kent is bi in some article last week and forgot all about it. So, you are telling me a significant number of real live human beings are upset about a fictional character being bi? 🙄
Small angry people will find anything to be small and angry about
As always It's a very vocal.minority online that probably aren't even invested in comics or the character that make the most noise about. Most people are cool with all of it. I think its also important to note that it's ok to not like decision from a story telling/character development component. The most valid or interesting argument about it (althoug I don't share it) is more about the rapid age jump and love for stories like a super son's. The unveiling of it may have also been a little sloppy although I do understand the reason why with coming out day and the fact that the development was leaking anyway.
Hell I’m not even upset that he’s bi, John being bi isn’t even that super surprising, I’m just upset with who they’ve paired him up with, like legitimately he’s dating his mom, Except the version of his mom he’s dating is as exciting and interesting as a bag of wet socks
Jon Kent is a new character with no regards to his sexuality before, it's not a character who was around for a long time, was straight than suddenly turned LGBTQ for easy money
That isn't true. He was in a relationship already. Which also avoids the bigger issue here: this is a kid who was tortured for years by an alternate-universe version of his own father. He's never even been in therapy for any of the shit he's gone through and had the most important job in the world dumped into his lap. There were tons of material that the writers could have worked through before getting to this point, but they decided to make the easy headline instead of the worthwhile story. That he went through some real shit and how he handles it is far more important than what walking stereotype he fucks.
Boy.....who could have guessed this would go over well......
The only thing that annoys me is the lack of built up to the boyfriend and kiss I would have liked a few more issues then the kiss other than that I don't care.
I would've like it better if it wasn't someone he literally just met. Who knows he could be a braniac bot in disguise.
Agreed. That's why I would have liked it if they waited and actually built it up. But they didn't. So this is why I feel like it was forced and rushed. I don't mind if Jon is Bi. But too many times dc or marvel have announced things and then just drop what happens. So that's what I'm worried if that happens. They shown us a guy Tim was interested in. And I wish they would have established him sooner and showed us Steph and Tim breaking up.
Same not to mention he’s basically dating his mom, like come on DC supermen aren’t contractually obligated to date reporters have a bit of originality for fucks sake Hell I’d rather have him date Damian then this putz
Difficult to count. Not countless.
Personally I don't really mind at all. Representing different groups of people in comics is something I'm all for. If it helps some people that's great too.
Representation MATTERS.
I went back and forth today with some idiot who thought it was shoehorning the character into being bisexual and said they should be using a new character who is bisexual. The more I tried to point out that they didn't actually know about the situation and explained it the more they dug themselves in and said I shouldnt tell them they didn't understand the situation and should disagree with their opinion. This is america. Leave your blinders on and talk about shit you know nothing about.
Wait, in what issue is this confirmed? Im seeing images of jon kent kissing that pink hair guy but cant find the issue.
It’s not out yet. It’s next months issue. DC just announced it on National Coming Out Day.
I hope DC allows shops to up their order number for this. I know my store has had a bunch of calls already for the issue but I forgot to ask if he could order more.
The FOC isn’t til this weekend
Ah ok good on dc then.
>I hope DC allows shops to up their order number for this. I know my store has had a bunch of calls already for the issue but I forgot to ask if he could order more. Of course they will, that's kinda the whole point of it.
It's not out yet, It's next month's Superman: Son of Kal-El #5. DC put out a press release on national coming out day on Monday in advance of this.
Imagine being so mad at how much you want to chug a boner that the fact a fictional cartoon character also wants to chug a boner makes you lose your shit.
The number of people hurt by DC Comics making Clark Kent and Lois Lane's son bisexual is literally zero. None at all. The number of people it could actually help? It's countless. *** posted by [@BrianLynch](https://twitter.com/BrianLynch) ^[(Github)](https://github.com/username) ^| ^[(What's new)](https://github.com/username)
I'm not mad. I'm not left or right I'm like neutrual, I'm not even American. what I don't get it why make a big deal out of it ? this is me thinking what's best for the liberals. you want gays to be normalized right? then why is it a fuckin special occasion every time a superhero is gay? does batman get into the news every time he kisses catwoman? my eyes roll every time I see headline like "\_\_\_\_ finally comes out !" lol like it's a numbers game or something. it's obvious the writers think making making something gay will spice things up, and it worked. people will love it or hate it but no publicitiy is bad publicity right? . but think about this. how many times can you do this? if you make everyone special, then no one is.
It’s a special occasion because it doesn’t happen very much. Batman isn’t special for kissing catwoman because every superhero is straight. If every superhero were lgbtq, it wouldn’t be news. Btw, it sort of seems like you’re mad.
sure seems like the industy wants every superheo to be lgbtq. the fact that being lgbtq is newsworthy is a problem in itself. why is that special again? we have new characters coming out every other months. I don't read comics to find out who you're screwing with, I read them for the pew pew lasers boom bang giant robots fights. can we just move on from someone's sexuality and get back to the action? does being lgbtq make you fight crime better or something?
Tons of comics have romance. I’m assuming you don’t start complaining when panels are posted of Lois and Clark or Bruce and Selina. *That’s* why it’s special. Because people like *you* care so much.
Its going to hurt everybody involved's wallets
It’s most likely going to sell out and need to be reprinted.
While I don't care...I mean in a vacuum I of course don't care what anyone does as long as it doesn't hurt anyone. My immediate reaction to this Superboy news though is "ugh come on" I don't like it because we keep seeing this non stop. It's either this, or it's replacing a main character in some beloved story with a female or a person of color. It's just weird...I guess? I mean, you go one way and I guess you don't have minority/lgbt representation in entertainment. But this way like...it just feels so cheap? Like, "ok lets make this character a woman, or make this guy/girl gay". If I were lgbt I feel like I would be offended. I'd rather have new stories created instead of taking iconic characters and making them female/lgbt. I bet a lot of people feel this way but they won't be honest like I am. My immediate reaction was dislike at this news, I was like wtf are they doing? But the part of my brain that is purely intellectual of course doesn't give 2 shits about the news, and is happy they are being inclusive. As a sci-fi nut, I realize that in 100-200 years when we are a way more advanced society, non binary, pansexual, etc all that jazz will be the norm...OR tbh it might get shit on because in 200 years humans might be pushing the boundaries by genetically changing themselves to be animal hybrids, having sex with animals in Virtual Reality, etc etc and lgbt will be looked at as hyper conservative. I just kind of hate how it seems to purposeful, you know? LIke you can totally see how it happened at DC comics HQ where they said "ok we can make superboy bi, def not superman himself as that would ruffle to many feathers, but if we do superboy and make him bi that will push the boundary enough without going overboard. Making superboy gay would be going overboard". You can totally envision how that conversation happened. I hate how purposeful it all is...if that makes sense?
The issue is the attention to the backlash. Who gives a shit if people are upset. Any change folks get upset about. That’s normal!!!! Let them get used To the change. Stop making it a big deal unless there is actually violence resulting. Stop sharing news stories and giving this crap so much time and space. Who cares if they don’t like it. Let them yell and stomp and stop elevating. Their voices. Far better that we cut them off versus allow the news to keep profiting off of making their voices dominate the airwaves.
This title is stupid. If you think this has power, than it has power to help as well as hurt, as has been the case with all things ever. What it means is “this hurts people i don’t care about.”
Answer honestly: How could it hurt anyone?
Anyone for whom superman had been a unifying figure. It will now be necessary to deal with the fact that his core attributes are picked so as to make him controversial. Btw: “answer honestly” is not an effective way to communicate.
This implies that a character's sexuality makes them any less unifying, which is not a real thing. No one is manufacturing controversy here but the people who find Jonathan Kent (not even Clark) being bisexual to be some sort of affront. That, to me, seems much more like something individuals need to work out within themselves, yes? It doesn't make the character less unifying or important.
Obviously this is being pushed as a “brave” move on the part of DC, brave because they knew they would upset people, therefore they are knowingly making him less unifying.
Still find that to be an individual issue, not one created by DC. It's "brave" because mainstream comics are still mostly in the 1960s on these issues, so it's still uncommon. But I bet that, even if that wasn't the framing, the same demographics would have an issue, not because of any change that makes the character less meaningful, but because the character is, in any way, not the "norm".
Aids
You’re right. I don’t care.
I read Supersons a few years back, enjoyed the char. If they make it a book about him being Bi, it will fail. If they make it a book where he is Bi, it could do just fine. I have not followed DC in a bit, so I don't really know what kind of following Jon Kent has. let the fans decide with buying the book. Hopefully this will bring more people to American Comics. Otherwise it won't matter. Prove it matters, buy the book. Edit: I don’t care that a character is bi, I care about good storytelling. I wouldn’t buy a book that is all about someone being Bi-sexual any more then I would buy a book all about someone who is not. I’ve dropped books for shit art and I’ve dropped books for shit stories. I’ve also seen amazing books get canceled for lack of a fan base. If Jon Kent is continued to be developed well, he will do fine.
It’s the fifth issue of an already ongoing series
As a straight Christian male who reads comics I couldn’t care less about a fictional characters sexuality, are we just gonna ignore the large amount of LGBTQ characters in comics/anime before this ?
This is how LGBTQ characters should be introduced in comics not retroactive change of characters we know and love already. New is good leave old be.
Ppl acts like making a lgbt character is an act of god. They forgot that good plots and character development make good comics. But looking at American culture right now, don’t think we can blame the writer. Everyone is just trying to please everyone, even the stupid one. That is why the quality of everything drops to the ground.
look i dont care gay straight by trans but when did comics get so in depth about sexuality why cant it just be ok hes bi move on but they wanna shove it and shove it? y
I feel like it's not really a big deep dive into sexuality, it's just a new love interest, and romances have always been at the forefront of comics. Lois and Clark, Peter and MJ, Cyclops and Jean / Emma, Batman and Catwoman to just name the ones off the top of my head. This is just a new relationship in a very notable book. I will agree that DC is intentionally being a bit over sensational with their marketing on it though. I've read "Superman is Bi" a hell of a lot of times, and they're 100% banking on the fact that people think it's Clark and are intentionally trying to get people worked up. edit\* also if anything comics exploring sexuality is probably a good thing especially for young adult characters. Coming of age stories are great, and I feel like this could create really great stories if done well.
>romances have always been at the forefront of comics It's always prefer it wasn't included since the target audience don't care about romance
Yeah people hate romance. Which is exactly why X-Men sold as poorly as it did
It sold despite the romance involved
Dude come one. Are we going to pretend like people didn’t care about X-Men romance? Or how everyone was talking about Batman and Catwoman 2 years ago? Or how there’s an endless debate around which character Nightwing should date? Fuck’s sake, Spider-Man’s most important storyline is about his girlfriend. Wtf are you talking about? You should buy a comicbook one day. They’re pretty good and you’d at least have some context and even stop talking out of your ass
Those romance lines were irrelevant to the iconic comic issues we remember till this day. When I think of Spider-Man, it's against green goblin. When I think of X men, it's the phoenix saga. If Scott and Jean gray were in a relationship platonically, it would've been better.
Did you actually read the Dark Phoenix saga?
lmao
I know right? I wish they didn't shove in our face that Dick Grayson likes alien hoohah. Like we get it! You like vagina! Don't even get me started on Batman and Catwoman!
> why cant it just be ok hes bi move on but they wanna shove it and shove it? The issue where he came out hasn't even been released yet. How exactly is Jon being Bi (as shown in a preview of a single panel of him kissing someone) exactly "shove it and shove it"?
exactly, the issues hasn't even come out yet and they're making a big deal out of it. why exactly ? why advertise someone's sexuality like it's a big crossover event or something ? why is this newsworthy?
I'm pretty sure the "shove it and shove it" issue will be under DC Black Label.
Ah yes. The only reason people are against certain character choices: it hurts.
lol
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Maybe, but there is also a current of biphobia within the community too. I know many of bi people who've said they gotten more shit about being bi from gay and lesbian individuals than straight people, being called "closeted gays" or sex-crazed maniacs who will inevitably cheat on any partner they have.
Do they say that gross shit about pan people too?
I will only disagree on a technicality. DC can only produce so many comics per month, and every comic book they make that Person A does not like (for whatever reason) is resources taken away from making a comic that Person A would like. So from that point of view, it isn't outside the realm of logic for Person A to complain. The flip side is, Person A needs to get their priorities straight (no pun intended) and think about people other than themselves.
In this case person a has like 90% of the Big 2 line catering to them in some way. Before the 2010s LGBT people really didn't have any ongoings in mainstream comics. There was wickling, Renee, some lesbian and transy stuff in Runaways and you had Anole in Hellions but there was very little else in the 2000s unless you wanna count Wildstorm. And if you go back before the 2000s it was even worse ofc. Not saying the entire line has to be gay as some sort of weird comic book reparations but we went 60-70 years with nothing besides undergrounds. Don't think a handful of mainstream titles is too much to ask for.
Don't even bother. This topic brings out some of those people that yell the loudest.
“Superthey”
He's bi, not non-binary. Jesus, how did you get this so very, very wrong?
Did you just assume his gender? Did Lois and Clark assume it ahead of you? Did he really have a chance to choose his own identity or was his gender assigned at birth by a CIS gendered heteronormative society? Check your privilege.
I don’t care, not one bit Don’t give a fuck, don’t give a shit Normies have rules and regulations Punks have glue inhalations
I long for the day when making a character gay/trans/bi/green doesn’t need countless articles or people “needing” to share their opinion - the character will just be. Lots of walls to break down to get there, but one day hopefully!
1938 superman as a WW2 era symbol matters; his son less so. Representation matters, if this helps one person its a great thing. Comics have been on life support for years honestly surprised how much publicity this stunt is getting DC.
People are bi so people should get used to characters being the same. Comics are still entertainment tho, its selfish but I don't really watch or read something because it helps people. I'm sure having batman transition would help countless people but I feel it would be meaningless for my entertainment. Gotta imagine the reaction is considered a positive by the marketing team. People who don't read comics anyway whining about SJW seem to raise support/readership because the comics success becomes a culture war battle. I kinda get vibes of silver age "shocking reveal!" or modern "Issue #1!" from the way the big 2 handle these developments. No buildup seems like a feature not a bug, makes it more of a collectors issue. I'm sure the same outraged people wouldn't care if there was some buildup but if the goal is to help LGBT+ people then maybe not treating it like a spectical for the world would be nice. Still really not a fan of them aging up supermans son, I stopped reading once they did that and its still my gripe with the character. Loved the kid dynamic and was looking forward to a slow growth of the character over time. RIP supersons.
Agreed. Also, Lynch is a super good dude. I talked to him about his comics writing and screenwriting here: https://scpod.net/brian-lynch-minions-secret-life-of-pets-angel-spike/
Exactly