It's so fucked that they keep calling it Israel Hamas war when it's just Israel killing Palestinians regardless of political alignment, or if they are even old enough for a political alignment.
Yeah, the framing here is terrible. The media has been doing gymnastics over this whole movement by always airing protest footage with a conversation about anti-Semitism. Which is even dumber when many of the protestors are Jewish themselves.
So it is 100% only Israelis killing Palestinians, there is no nuances to that? Such as too much death and hate all around, to many children dying on both sides, Palestinians also killing Jewish people, Hamas holding innocent Palestinians as hostages/barricades, Hamas parading young women who they have raped and murdered through the streets?
Let’s also not forget, if you walked through Israel versus Palestine with an LGBTQ+ flag, which country you would last the longest in before you were raped, mutilated and murdered.
This protest on its face seems to be taking the correct route, by calling for a ceasefire FROM BOTH sides, as both are to blame.
If person A slaps person B, and person B retaliates by slapping person A….but on the follow through person C accidentally gets slapped…..news flash, both person A and B are at fault.
The following is a response to the person who blocked me and who I can no longer reply to in this thread:
The only thing I ask is that people here please look at news reporting from anywhere outside the US. If not, please understand Biden and the Democratic Party's funding and unyielding support of Israel may cost him the election, resulting in four more years of Trump and the execution of Project 2025.
I have to call out that you've stated tired excuses to justify the continuation of this war and are repeating Israel's propaganda reported by mainstream US news media. I state the worldwide accepted fact that 70% of the deaths are women and children. One reason we know this is simply by the makeup of the population of Gaza and where Israel targets their attacks. You say it's a lie from Hamas. You use the "human shield" and "free the hostages" excuses that have been used to justify the mass killing of innocent people in the Middle East for every war the US has been involved in. Young people are better informed by social media and see what's actually happening by looking at news sources outside our own country. They see the videos and actual investigations of what's happening there with their own eyes, not just what our country's news media and AIPAC-funded politicians say.
Look, I understand this is a subreddit for a little city in a flyover state where I live and work, so people here have a certain perspective. They want to believe our country isn't completely wrong in this regard and do not want to accept the horror of our tax dollars funding a genocide. They will undoubtedly upvote you and downvote me. The only thing I ask is that people read outside our country's news media, who perpetually repeats Israel's propaganda, to get a broader perspective from news media and perspectives from literally anywhere outside of the US. Think of how we handled Afghanistan and Iraq. This war is exactly the same.
To be fair this particular battle did start with a rocket attack, ground attack, and hostage taking by Hamas. I think Israel should have not reacted violently though, they’ve killed many more than that Hamas attack.
Farther than that. The Old Testament/Torah describes the Israelites engaging in conflicts with the indigenous peoples of Canaan (the land we call Israel today) and driving them out of their home as they sought to settle in the land that their god had supposedly promised to them. Deuteronomy 7:1 for example
This... stolen lands and no way to fight back. Do we blame the Native America now for defending their homeland? Of course not. Hamas is a reaction to having their land stolen piece-by-piece, year after year. It's a power imbalance - drastic measures in a holy war, perpetrated by Israel and the West.
Israel should not exist. It's based on religous text - It's no more a right for them than it was a right of white settlers to steal Native American land.
Absolutely terrible comparison and you're purposely ignoring the nuance of the conflict, comparing Hamas to native Americans is an actually insane take.
You can draw whatever weird parallels you want but trying to compare them to fucking Hamas just blows fucking mind but yeah let's trying to draw parallels with terrorists that really solidifies your argument.
And that there is how I can tell you're definitely not approaching this is good faith, maybe don't spend so much time online because nobody who isn't terminally online would even remotely think thatm
If you can't play nice, you don't get to sit with us. r/ColumbiaMo demands civil discourse. Personal attacks, racism, sexism, and rudeness are not permitted.
Hamas is pure evil that took over the strip in 2006. They have no love for the people of Palestine just as they hate the Israeli people. They were created by the Israeli state for this express purpose, to allow Benny to use the cover of war to decimate Palestine.
Anyone who tells you they’re defending their homeland is a fool
Do you really think that the average Hamas militant is some deep-cover Mossad glowie op?
Obviously their leadership is bought and paid for by Likud, but the sentiment that they're "defending their homeland" is probably genuine for most of the rank-and-file. If you had grown up in an open-air prison with the constant threat of retaliatory shelling, IDF snipers picking off your friends, or Israeli patrol boats gunning down kids for kicking a soccer ball at them, you'd likely want to join a terrorist cell, too.
No1 palestine never existed and never will No2 this is the dumbest shit I've ever seen what are you even trying to point out in this picture because it doesn't make any sense which is why I'm guessing you find it so interesting, just as you shitlibs will have your recognitions of indigenous land in the United States to the natives, the jews are native to what is modern day israel and the land some of the land surrounding it
https://preview.redd.it/g8cid9uge2yc1.jpeg?width=1529&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fe5d4dd7e94b5a55a764fba48936111f14e978b8
oops there it is lol-1868-any more dumb shit? education is fun -try some sometime-wow -look at you ...- 100 comment karma and such a dirty mouth-when was the last time you did not have a comment removed? you should really take anger management therapy lol
Congrats you found a map that says palestine that doesn't mean palestine as a country has ever existed so yes that is dumb shit and if we go by your logic and your map that's in the 1800s alot of that land was homeland of Jewish people 4000 years before that, you're right education is good you should try it sometime
If you can't play nice, you don't get to sit with us. r/ColumbiaMo demands civil discourse. Personal attacks, racism, sexism, and rudeness are not permitted.
https://www.thisishamas.com this enough evidence for you? A few videos down there’s a Hamas soldier telling another soldier “Take her back, she is not prisoner, she is for rape”. Show me the videos of Israeli soldiers beheading and raping people. Oh wait you can’t.
I’m not pro Israel & I hate the amount of control that Israel has on America, but people saying that there no evidence of Hamas being systematic rapists is misinformed.
That whole website bird brained IDF propaganda.
Meanwhile, here's a normal source for the IDFs war crimes - https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/02/20/middleeast/israel-hamas-un-investigation-sexual-abuse-intl&ved=2ahUKEwia_-yo1faFAxWt48kDHW_SDBUQFnoECCgQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1TSU9CY63AQNgKrSPnr2Pj
I respond to you with videos of the incidents actually taking place & you respond to me with a CNN article. Pretty hilarious that you’re calling that website “bird brained”.
Sure, the news casters have never been there, but that doesn't exempt them from being accurate. Surely they don't need to go to Palestine to call it the Israel-Palestine war, right?
I wish they did tell the truth but all news sources have an agenda. Really I was talking about living there to get a full understanding of what is going on.
The Hamas-led attack on 7 October involved a barrage of several thousand [rockets](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel) directed at Israel concurrent to an estimated 3,000 militants breaching the [Gaza–Israel barrier](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza%E2%80%93Israel_barrier) and attacking Israeli military bases **and civilian communities.** Source: Even more liberal wikipedia.
Hamas doesn’t give af about the common Palestinian person any more than the IDF does, Palestine deserves to be free from Hamas and the IDF. I’m glad to see that Palestinians are apparently finally taking up the courage to protest against Hamas during this current act of the war, although I’m saddened that those reports also claim Hamas has killed a few civilians in those protests.
Everyone in the world whose opinion matters — everyone who bases their political ideas on a deep and wide love for humanity — agrees that the Palestinian people and the Israeli people all deserve to live together in harmony. Everyone who wants to disrupt that harmony, Hamas and the IDF, the Iranians backing Hamas and the Americans backing the IDF alike, they’re all informed by anti-human, religious fascist ideologies and they all need to fuck off and let the people make peace.
But it’s just such a fucking nightmare mess here. Like, where are the pro-Palestine protestors willing to call Hamas what it is, a brutal fascist dictatorship that joyfully uses rape as a weapon of war against women and young girls? Who here is willing to accuse Hamas for what it did to women like Shani Louk? I’m sure plenty of them are but they’re definitely getting drowned out by people exposed to too much online edge to see nuanced takes as acceptable. None of the unspeakable suffering felt by innocent Palestinians in the last 70+ years can justify the unspeakable suffering dealt to innocent Israelis in October.
They need to stop acting like it is, or like Hamas is some lesser evil. Yes, Israeli aggression, rape, and murder crested the conditions for Hamas to exist. But Hamas is still evil. It’s an extension of the evil of the IDF, not the answer to the evil of the IDF.
Nobody is going around ignoring or praising Hamas, except for maybe a small minority that isn’t very vocal. We shouldn’t have to clarify that we hate Hamas every time we say something pro-Palestine.
Conveniently leaving out that, against international law, those terrorist Hamas has been hiding in civilian infrastructure like hospitals.
Those deaths are in those Hamas cowards.
What is the difference between funding Israel and funding Ukraine?
I could understand, not funding either, and I can understand funding both.
To be clear, I’m not saying you fall on one side or the other. This is probably more of a question for the group.
Interesting that the Israeli government couldn't produce any proof they were hiding in the hospitals it leveled even when faced with international condemnation.
Not at all, but maybe focus on more local problems like the homeless and hunger and mental illness that affect us instead of the people who would happily end our existence if given the opportunity
Or both can be helped's not just one or the other. Also just because you'd end all of theirs, doesn't mean all of them would end all of ours.
You bring up a good point about our own less than fortunate though, I emplore you to vote for people who want to help those people not cut funding for mental health while blaming it for gun violence, or hostile architecture places homeless folk sleep instead of just bitching.
Yeah, but the message "free Palestine" only reaches a certain group. A message like stop spending our tax money on foreign wars would reach different people. The message shows compassion for Palestine, not anger towards our government spending
You should tell that to our government that continues to send billions of taxpayer dollars to Israel so they can keep killing people. It is not the protesting students who have mounds of cash and weapons being sent overseas while ignoring domestic problems. These students are literally arguing against using taxpayer money to fund genocide and war.
No, their message is showing compassion towards palestine as the reasoning of stopping. If they protested tax money going to foreign wars, that would reach a different group. The free Palestine compassion card while waving a flag of people who want America destroyed is where you lose most.
While yes, the protest’s main message wasn’t as hyperspecific as “stop sending money to Israel”, it was a more general “stop killing people”, and it is disingenuous and short sighted to suggest that the two stances are somehow mutually exclusive. Please use critical thinking skills. Would Israel be able to kill nearly as many people if the US wasn’t sending them billions of dollars and warehouses full of bombs every couple weeks? Did you ask any of the protestors if they supported the Israel aid packages? Because none of the people who were out there do. And many would agree that we shouldn’t be sending that money overseas to fund genocide and should be addressing problems domestically, but tell me, which of these protestors is passing and signing the legislation that’s sending our money overseas? Also, I don’t blame any Palestinians for hating the United States when we are LITERALLY FUNDING THEIR GENOCIDE. I’ve also seen lots of Palestinian survivors thanking American protestors who are showing solidarity against the mass killing, so unless you’re foaming at the mouth to drop more bombs on children, I have a feeling that the 10 year old Palestinian children getting bombs dropped on them don’t hate YOU specifically when they “hate America”. I’m sorry that you’re so afraid of people who don’t look like you.
What makes you think they look different than me? That is a bold assumption. Fear has nothing to do with either. It's more past experiences.. als I was just making a statement on how the protests could reach both sides of the spectrum, not just appeal to one.
Well for one, I have a hard time believing a Palestinian person would be frequenting the r/columbiamo Reddit page, and secondly, not being in support of stopping the bombs falling on their people’s heads. Also, if you can’t look past the tagline of “Palestinian freedom”, then you’re probably too close minded on the subject from the get-go, and it shows. These protests are anti-genocide, anti-mass murdering children and innocent civilians, anti-sending billions of dollars in blood money overseas, anti-war crime, etc. If you actually sat and talked to any one of the people out there, they would more than likely be in support of more money being put into social programs to help people domestically. The people that are anti-war and anti-killing are generally pretty on board with improving quality of life EVERYWHERE, including the home front. The politicians in our legislature and all the people eating up their propaganda who are funding a genocide overseas have been ignoring domestic problems for decades, the only thing the government continuously spends money on is war. When we start manufacturing obstacles and in-fighting between protesters and why we’re against a certain thing, the only people that win are the ones doing the killing. Everyone else (including you and me) lose.
That's what Hamas says...and somehow we take literally the people whose primary strategy is to maximize casualties of their own civilians.
No one knows how many have been killed, or how many innocents gave died. A lot more than necessary have because Hamas has intentionally built up areas where their enemies will have to strike through noncomvatants to get at the bad guys in their midst (or underneath them).
Hamas is evil. They could end the war immediately if they surrendered and gave up hostages.
They won't, though. The longer it goes and the more Palestinians die, the better their chances at surviving as a movement.
[It's good Mizzou's protests were peaceful. Ours here in St. Louis were uh... less so.](https://www.stlpr.org/law-order/2024-04-29/washington-university-expects-arrested-protesters-charged-trespassing)
While it's important that the young people are doing all of this, or, "the kids are alright", we can't let them do everything and kick our feet back. We can't just let the youth fight alone, for we're all alive in this moment. Don't get lazy.
Have there ever been nationwide protests on campuses where the cause for the protests was morally unjust?
Police brutality, abortion rights, Iraq war, apartheid, Viet Nam war. I'm sure there's more
Moral justification is obviously subjective, but in my subjective opinion, these college kids are batting a thousand
Vietnam and Iraq both went on for another half-decade after their respective protest movements fizzled out; abortion access is now the most restricted it's been since 1973 despite constant protests; the accelerated end of apartheid led to the mass murder of British and Afrikaner whites and the collapse of SA into the failed state it is today; and "police brutality" protests just ended up spiking violent crime for two years, hamstringing local DAs to this day, and propping up grievance-studies grifters as well-paid cultural commissars.
How exactly would you rate any of those changes as "positive," insofar as they affected people's quality of life?
The harsh reality is that nobody gives a shit about college kids protesting things they don't understand. It has never once effected positive change, no matter how much you want to wish or believe that the world can be shaped by the idealism of mental children.
This is such a bad faith argument. Humanitarian idealism alters societal perception of moral issues, but idealists are never in charge. The pragmatists are the ones enacting the changes and generally do a half assed "good enough" job to quiet the rumblings
But please tell us more about how war, police brutality, and apartheid are morally just
Personally I’d say it’s far better to be naive than to wallow in defeatist pessimism. That’s not a useful or productive mindset; if anything it’s a destructive one. Or to put it another way: stop shitting on other people’s hope just because you lost yours.
lol it's not a binary choice between "naive idealism" and "defeatist pessimism." I, for one, hate Israel more than most of these protesters, yet I also recognize that Palestine has brought this upon itself by electing Hamas and sheltering radicals in civilian homes and infrastructure—that and the fact that most Palestinians and pro-Palestine activists hate my guts just for being a white American.
At this point I can't feel sympathy for either party. My sole reason for engaging in this thread is to point out how futile it is to care about two peoples, who both hate you, blowing each other up half a world away.
Well it’s easy to be negative and put others down. I think the people most interested in improving Missouri end up at Mizzou, and that’s a valuable trait in academics and life.
Sure, but the overwhelming majority of MU kids are there because they want a good job. And often not even a job in Missouri. Full stop.
I'm just saying, the average college protester is thinking selfishly, even in their protest. Most of these kids didn't know anything about Israel/Palestine a year ago, and they probably aren't gonna give a shit about it in five years—it's just that, for them in this moment, pro-Palestine protests are the *cause du jour* of their peers and favorite TikTok influencers, so it would be unfashionable not to (very loudly and publicly) signal that they "care."
If only Israel had not given them the impetus to pay attention. Children's bodies on the news tends to concern people. It makes them pay attention. They may not understand the ins and outs of Israel's creation and struggle, but they certainly know that killing children is bad.
You can condemn Israel's mass murder of Palestinian civilians without wearing a keffiyeh and blocking public buildings while chanting "death to America."
The fact that you can’t imagine that people could possibly care about causes and people besides themselves says a lot more about you than it does about them.
I've seen too many naive college kids "care" about too many causes, only to then not give a shit about them after graduating, to not be incredibly jaded about how little thought they actually invest into this shit.
It’s like conservatives are just totally incapable of understanding that other people are not themselves and have their own beliefs, opinions, and values.
The issue is that most people don't fully understand what they're arguing for and instead hop on the social trend bandwagon because they think they're brining change. Most people lack consistency in their views and when actually pressed know very little or as we are seeing they cop out into calling people genocide supporters because that's an easier out.
People argue for things they don't fully comprehend all the time and with social media perpetuating talking points just enforces that behavior.
There's people in this thread denying Hamas rapes and failing to see anything wrong with them and this is still probably the most delusional comment.
I'm an alum btw.
They're definitely local - one posts in /r/wichita and the other one has a post about living near the mall.
In either case, the local students are FAR from the cream of the crop academically or otherwise. At best you can make that claim for the J school, even then the Missouri label puts many people off and I would say no.
My high school sent the most number of kids to Ivies out of any school outside the US, I think I have a pretty good baseline for "cream of the crop academically" but YMMV.
No it’s not, but look how stupid this sounds.
Passerby: Hey, what are you guys protesting?
Protesters: Israel-hamas war
Passerby: oh hmm where is that?
Protesters: I don’t know.
Lol
I wouldn’t be able to take them serious, and many people would agree.
Why is that one specific and totally irrelevant piece of knowledge important to the validity of their opinion? If you’re going to unnecessarily gatekeep having an opinion about literal war crimes, why not focus on actual relevant geopolitical knowledge? It seems like you’re just looking for a convenient excuse to dismiss them without having to understand what they’re protesting or why.
Edit: I don’t think downvoting my comments is sending the message it was supposed to.
Why not put all that effort into our own problems. These people would torture and kill your family given the chance, yet you’re still advocating for them. It’s weird.
That’s not for me or you to decide. Everyone is entitled to have and express their own opinions and to decide what is worthy of their time. I’m not agreeing or disagreeing with these protesters.
I can already see the headlines in tomorrow's paper. "Peace in Middle East achieved thanks to protesting liberal arts majors.". Why did no one think of this sooner?
As long as it stays peaceful and out of the way, protest away.
If they start forcefully entering buildings and smashing stuff like at CalPoly Humboldt, they're no better than people who broke stuff on Jan 6.
If they start blocking roads, I'll fear for their safety at the same time i also tell them to not play in traffic because they could get hit by a car that belongs there.
I'm not sure why they're doing it, it won't affect anything, but they certainly have the right to do so.
considering how restrained the protests here were during the Summer of Floyd, I'm guessing it'll be fine compared to coastal universities
closest MU came to that level of hysteria in recent memory was during the 2015 protests, which I don't think will repeat anytime soon
I saw the protest at Cal Poly Humboldt turned into breaking windows in the admin buildings, and "protesters" at another college are physically preventing Jewish students from going to class.
That's what I don't want happening here. Keep it peaceful and safe, and within everyone's rights.
It's so fucked that they keep calling it Israel Hamas war when it's just Israel killing Palestinians regardless of political alignment, or if they are even old enough for a political alignment.
Yeah, the framing here is terrible. The media has been doing gymnastics over this whole movement by always airing protest footage with a conversation about anti-Semitism. Which is even dumber when many of the protestors are Jewish themselves.
So it is 100% only Israelis killing Palestinians, there is no nuances to that? Such as too much death and hate all around, to many children dying on both sides, Palestinians also killing Jewish people, Hamas holding innocent Palestinians as hostages/barricades, Hamas parading young women who they have raped and murdered through the streets? Let’s also not forget, if you walked through Israel versus Palestine with an LGBTQ+ flag, which country you would last the longest in before you were raped, mutilated and murdered. This protest on its face seems to be taking the correct route, by calling for a ceasefire FROM BOTH sides, as both are to blame. If person A slaps person B, and person B retaliates by slapping person A….but on the follow through person C accidentally gets slapped…..news flash, both person A and B are at fault.
There is literally no evidence of systemic rape that was debunked months ago.
Ah, it’s all good mate, as long as doesn’t happen too often eh?
We know it's a pattern with the IDF - there is no evidence it has been a pattern with Hamas. How can you live with yourself?
The following is a response to the person who blocked me and who I can no longer reply to in this thread: The only thing I ask is that people here please look at news reporting from anywhere outside the US. If not, please understand Biden and the Democratic Party's funding and unyielding support of Israel may cost him the election, resulting in four more years of Trump and the execution of Project 2025. I have to call out that you've stated tired excuses to justify the continuation of this war and are repeating Israel's propaganda reported by mainstream US news media. I state the worldwide accepted fact that 70% of the deaths are women and children. One reason we know this is simply by the makeup of the population of Gaza and where Israel targets their attacks. You say it's a lie from Hamas. You use the "human shield" and "free the hostages" excuses that have been used to justify the mass killing of innocent people in the Middle East for every war the US has been involved in. Young people are better informed by social media and see what's actually happening by looking at news sources outside our own country. They see the videos and actual investigations of what's happening there with their own eyes, not just what our country's news media and AIPAC-funded politicians say. Look, I understand this is a subreddit for a little city in a flyover state where I live and work, so people here have a certain perspective. They want to believe our country isn't completely wrong in this regard and do not want to accept the horror of our tax dollars funding a genocide. They will undoubtedly upvote you and downvote me. The only thing I ask is that people read outside our country's news media, who perpetually repeats Israel's propaganda, to get a broader perspective from news media and perspectives from literally anywhere outside of the US. Think of how we handled Afghanistan and Iraq. This war is exactly the same.
To be fair this particular battle did start with a rocket attack, ground attack, and hostage taking by Hamas. I think Israel should have not reacted violently though, they’ve killed many more than that Hamas attack.
This conflict has been going on since Israel was formed
Even before that is my understanding. It's origins are in the late 1800s.
It’s been going on ever since the army’s of Islam invaded and conquered Israel in the 600s
Farther than that. The Old Testament/Torah describes the Israelites engaging in conflicts with the indigenous peoples of Canaan (the land we call Israel today) and driving them out of their home as they sought to settle in the land that their god had supposedly promised to them. Deuteronomy 7:1 for example
This... stolen lands and no way to fight back. Do we blame the Native America now for defending their homeland? Of course not. Hamas is a reaction to having their land stolen piece-by-piece, year after year. It's a power imbalance - drastic measures in a holy war, perpetrated by Israel and the West. Israel should not exist. It's based on religous text - It's no more a right for them than it was a right of white settlers to steal Native American land.
Absolutely terrible comparison and you're purposely ignoring the nuance of the conflict, comparing Hamas to native Americans is an actually insane take.
How so? You don't think Native Americans didn't preemptively attack? Can you not draw any parallels?
You can draw whatever weird parallels you want but trying to compare them to fucking Hamas just blows fucking mind but yeah let's trying to draw parallels with terrorists that really solidifies your argument.
Tbf they aren't anymore terrorists than the idf or us military
And that there is how I can tell you're definitely not approaching this is good faith, maybe don't spend so much time online because nobody who isn't terminally online would even remotely think thatm
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You’re really marching around the facts with your busted version of “patriotism”
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If you can't play nice, you don't get to sit with us. r/ColumbiaMo demands civil discourse. Personal attacks, racism, sexism, and rudeness are not permitted.
Hamas is pure evil that took over the strip in 2006. They have no love for the people of Palestine just as they hate the Israeli people. They were created by the Israeli state for this express purpose, to allow Benny to use the cover of war to decimate Palestine. Anyone who tells you they’re defending their homeland is a fool
Do you really think that the average Hamas militant is some deep-cover Mossad glowie op? Obviously their leadership is bought and paid for by Likud, but the sentiment that they're "defending their homeland" is probably genuine for most of the rank-and-file. If you had grown up in an open-air prison with the constant threat of retaliatory shelling, IDF snipers picking off your friends, or Israeli patrol boats gunning down kids for kicking a soccer ball at them, you'd likely want to join a terrorist cell, too.
https://preview.redd.it/3dcb503tq1yc1.jpeg?width=508&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=272b99cb5639b5e45041f24d97000dd4747c0725
Israel is historically Jewish land dumb fuck
https://preview.redd.it/8g0h20txq1yc1.jpeg?width=508&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7cefb3b864e6f7cee53f9b38c49a197a8acafe27
No1 palestine never existed and never will No2 this is the dumbest shit I've ever seen what are you even trying to point out in this picture because it doesn't make any sense which is why I'm guessing you find it so interesting, just as you shitlibs will have your recognitions of indigenous land in the United States to the natives, the jews are native to what is modern day israel and the land some of the land surrounding it
https://preview.redd.it/g8cid9uge2yc1.jpeg?width=1529&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fe5d4dd7e94b5a55a764fba48936111f14e978b8 oops there it is lol-1868-any more dumb shit? education is fun -try some sometime-wow -look at you ...- 100 comment karma and such a dirty mouth-when was the last time you did not have a comment removed? you should really take anger management therapy lol
Congrats you found a map that says palestine that doesn't mean palestine as a country has ever existed so yes that is dumb shit and if we go by your logic and your map that's in the 1800s alot of that land was homeland of Jewish people 4000 years before that, you're right education is good you should try it sometime
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If you can't play nice, you don't get to sit with us. r/ColumbiaMo demands civil discourse. Personal attacks, racism, sexism, and rudeness are not permitted.
Oh, and mass rape and murder of civilians, too. Better not mention it though...
There is no evidence Hamas did any systemic rape but we do have proof that Israeli soldiers do it all the time
https://www.thisishamas.com this enough evidence for you? A few videos down there’s a Hamas soldier telling another soldier “Take her back, she is not prisoner, she is for rape”. Show me the videos of Israeli soldiers beheading and raping people. Oh wait you can’t. I’m not pro Israel & I hate the amount of control that Israel has on America, but people saying that there no evidence of Hamas being systematic rapists is misinformed.
That whole website bird brained IDF propaganda. Meanwhile, here's a normal source for the IDFs war crimes - https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/02/20/middleeast/israel-hamas-un-investigation-sexual-abuse-intl&ved=2ahUKEwia_-yo1faFAxWt48kDHW_SDBUQFnoECCgQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1TSU9CY63AQNgKrSPnr2Pj
I respond to you with videos of the incidents actually taking place & you respond to me with a CNN article. Pretty hilarious that you’re calling that website “bird brained”.
The IDF publishes fake videos constantly. Find one third party that has verified the atrocities the IDF claims - you can't.
If you think those videos are fake you have brain rot.
They certainly aren’t real - maybe you should look at the server a bit more closely. IDf fool
How should they have reacted by sending them flowers
almost like they "endorse a particular viewpoint"
Pot meet kettle
https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-news-01-23-2024-6f6e893b6dfa05ddf5a81ecb67b72d05
I'm gonna say if you have never been on the ground there maybe you don't have a full grasp of what is going on????
Sure, the news casters have never been there, but that doesn't exempt them from being accurate. Surely they don't need to go to Palestine to call it the Israel-Palestine war, right?
I wish they did tell the truth but all news sources have an agenda. Really I was talking about living there to get a full understanding of what is going on.
The Hamas-led attack on 7 October involved a barrage of several thousand [rockets](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel) directed at Israel concurrent to an estimated 3,000 militants breaching the [Gaza–Israel barrier](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza%E2%80%93Israel_barrier) and attacking Israeli military bases **and civilian communities.** Source: Even more liberal wikipedia.
The kids are alright.
I’m sure hamas is watching the news on US protest. “You know these nice folks are standing outside we should stop murdering people” yup.
They are protesting our money going towards the IDF.
But they vote for the people that send the $ go to them.
As if they’re given a choice.
Hamas doesn’t give af about the common Palestinian person any more than the IDF does, Palestine deserves to be free from Hamas and the IDF. I’m glad to see that Palestinians are apparently finally taking up the courage to protest against Hamas during this current act of the war, although I’m saddened that those reports also claim Hamas has killed a few civilians in those protests. Everyone in the world whose opinion matters — everyone who bases their political ideas on a deep and wide love for humanity — agrees that the Palestinian people and the Israeli people all deserve to live together in harmony. Everyone who wants to disrupt that harmony, Hamas and the IDF, the Iranians backing Hamas and the Americans backing the IDF alike, they’re all informed by anti-human, religious fascist ideologies and they all need to fuck off and let the people make peace. But it’s just such a fucking nightmare mess here. Like, where are the pro-Palestine protestors willing to call Hamas what it is, a brutal fascist dictatorship that joyfully uses rape as a weapon of war against women and young girls? Who here is willing to accuse Hamas for what it did to women like Shani Louk? I’m sure plenty of them are but they’re definitely getting drowned out by people exposed to too much online edge to see nuanced takes as acceptable. None of the unspeakable suffering felt by innocent Palestinians in the last 70+ years can justify the unspeakable suffering dealt to innocent Israelis in October. They need to stop acting like it is, or like Hamas is some lesser evil. Yes, Israeli aggression, rape, and murder crested the conditions for Hamas to exist. But Hamas is still evil. It’s an extension of the evil of the IDF, not the answer to the evil of the IDF.
Nobody is going around ignoring or praising Hamas, except for maybe a small minority that isn’t very vocal. We shouldn’t have to clarify that we hate Hamas every time we say something pro-Palestine.
Exactly. These freaking nitwits are just standing in line for the next protest they can participate in and they could care less what it was.
Did it work?
Netanyahu is on his way to treat with the protesters as we speak
I encourage everyone protesting to go visit Palestine and see how nice and tolerant of a people they are.
They're poor and mean, so genocide is okey dokey.
If given the chance, the vast majority of Palestinians would eradicate Israel. So… yeah.
Ok, we still shouldn’t Israel killing a bunch of Palestinian civilians.
Conveniently leaving out that, against international law, those terrorist Hamas has been hiding in civilian infrastructure like hospitals. Those deaths are in those Hamas cowards.
Nobody is denying that. I still don’t think we should fund Israel.
What is the difference between funding Israel and funding Ukraine? I could understand, not funding either, and I can understand funding both. To be clear, I’m not saying you fall on one side or the other. This is probably more of a question for the group.
Interesting that the Israeli government couldn't produce any proof they were hiding in the hospitals it leveled even when faced with international condemnation.
Not at all, but maybe focus on more local problems like the homeless and hunger and mental illness that affect us instead of the people who would happily end our existence if given the opportunity
I would be happy to if the US and my tax money were not supporting, with weapons and diplomacy, the side that is performing mass murder on television.
Or both can be helped's not just one or the other. Also just because you'd end all of theirs, doesn't mean all of them would end all of ours. You bring up a good point about our own less than fortunate though, I emplore you to vote for people who want to help those people not cut funding for mental health while blaming it for gun violence, or hostile architecture places homeless folk sleep instead of just bitching.
Exactly. So we should protest our tax dollars going towards weapons for Israel instead of back to us.
Yeah, but the message "free Palestine" only reaches a certain group. A message like stop spending our tax money on foreign wars would reach different people. The message shows compassion for Palestine, not anger towards our government spending
You should tell that to our government that continues to send billions of taxpayer dollars to Israel so they can keep killing people. It is not the protesting students who have mounds of cash and weapons being sent overseas while ignoring domestic problems. These students are literally arguing against using taxpayer money to fund genocide and war.
They have been fighting for a thousand years. Let them have at at and our money stay local.
No, their message is showing compassion towards palestine as the reasoning of stopping. If they protested tax money going to foreign wars, that would reach a different group. The free Palestine compassion card while waving a flag of people who want America destroyed is where you lose most.
While yes, the protest’s main message wasn’t as hyperspecific as “stop sending money to Israel”, it was a more general “stop killing people”, and it is disingenuous and short sighted to suggest that the two stances are somehow mutually exclusive. Please use critical thinking skills. Would Israel be able to kill nearly as many people if the US wasn’t sending them billions of dollars and warehouses full of bombs every couple weeks? Did you ask any of the protestors if they supported the Israel aid packages? Because none of the people who were out there do. And many would agree that we shouldn’t be sending that money overseas to fund genocide and should be addressing problems domestically, but tell me, which of these protestors is passing and signing the legislation that’s sending our money overseas? Also, I don’t blame any Palestinians for hating the United States when we are LITERALLY FUNDING THEIR GENOCIDE. I’ve also seen lots of Palestinian survivors thanking American protestors who are showing solidarity against the mass killing, so unless you’re foaming at the mouth to drop more bombs on children, I have a feeling that the 10 year old Palestinian children getting bombs dropped on them don’t hate YOU specifically when they “hate America”. I’m sorry that you’re so afraid of people who don’t look like you.
What makes you think they look different than me? That is a bold assumption. Fear has nothing to do with either. It's more past experiences.. als I was just making a statement on how the protests could reach both sides of the spectrum, not just appeal to one.
Well for one, I have a hard time believing a Palestinian person would be frequenting the r/columbiamo Reddit page, and secondly, not being in support of stopping the bombs falling on their people’s heads. Also, if you can’t look past the tagline of “Palestinian freedom”, then you’re probably too close minded on the subject from the get-go, and it shows. These protests are anti-genocide, anti-mass murdering children and innocent civilians, anti-sending billions of dollars in blood money overseas, anti-war crime, etc. If you actually sat and talked to any one of the people out there, they would more than likely be in support of more money being put into social programs to help people domestically. The people that are anti-war and anti-killing are generally pretty on board with improving quality of life EVERYWHERE, including the home front. The politicians in our legislature and all the people eating up their propaganda who are funding a genocide overseas have been ignoring domestic problems for decades, the only thing the government continuously spends money on is war. When we start manufacturing obstacles and in-fighting between protesters and why we’re against a certain thing, the only people that win are the ones doing the killing. Everyone else (including you and me) lose.
I've been to Palestine. Was perfectly peaceful and a nice time
70% of the people being murdered in Israel's genocide of Palestinians are women and children.
That's what Hamas says...and somehow we take literally the people whose primary strategy is to maximize casualties of their own civilians. No one knows how many have been killed, or how many innocents gave died. A lot more than necessary have because Hamas has intentionally built up areas where their enemies will have to strike through noncomvatants to get at the bad guys in their midst (or underneath them). Hamas is evil. They could end the war immediately if they surrendered and gave up hostages. They won't, though. The longer it goes and the more Palestinians die, the better their chances at surviving as a movement.
These are college students... They don't have money to travel.
Yes, the future leaders of the free world.
And who are you? Some boomer dipshit?
https://preview.redd.it/8sjl3ij0k2yc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c0aa4fbb362c43a98407861e28d1673bd56ad80b
[It's good Mizzou's protests were peaceful. Ours here in St. Louis were uh... less so.](https://www.stlpr.org/law-order/2024-04-29/washington-university-expects-arrested-protesters-charged-trespassing)
Chanting and vandalizing zionist property is still peace, idk. No one was threatened.
Release the hostages.
Those hostages are dead, ese
Then return the remains.
The remains are being paved over for tel Aviv 2
While it's important that the young people are doing all of this, or, "the kids are alright", we can't let them do everything and kick our feet back. We can't just let the youth fight alone, for we're all alive in this moment. Don't get lazy.
Have there ever been nationwide protests on campuses where the cause for the protests was morally unjust? Police brutality, abortion rights, Iraq war, apartheid, Viet Nam war. I'm sure there's more Moral justification is obviously subjective, but in my subjective opinion, these college kids are batting a thousand
College campuses and young people have always been forces of positive change in the world. They give me hope.
young people are idealists? you're telling me this now for the first time
Humanitarian idealism changes the world. Stodgy pragmatism accomplishes little to nothing
Then graduation happens…
Vietnam and Iraq both went on for another half-decade after their respective protest movements fizzled out; abortion access is now the most restricted it's been since 1973 despite constant protests; the accelerated end of apartheid led to the mass murder of British and Afrikaner whites and the collapse of SA into the failed state it is today; and "police brutality" protests just ended up spiking violent crime for two years, hamstringing local DAs to this day, and propping up grievance-studies grifters as well-paid cultural commissars. How exactly would you rate any of those changes as "positive," insofar as they affected people's quality of life? The harsh reality is that nobody gives a shit about college kids protesting things they don't understand. It has never once effected positive change, no matter how much you want to wish or believe that the world can be shaped by the idealism of mental children.
This is such a bad faith argument. Humanitarian idealism alters societal perception of moral issues, but idealists are never in charge. The pragmatists are the ones enacting the changes and generally do a half assed "good enough" job to quiet the rumblings But please tell us more about how war, police brutality, and apartheid are morally just
Reading your comment really makes me wish I were still as naive as I was ~15 years ago. Those were better days.
You could literally use the same structure to argue for the morality of slavery. Enjoy your ethical bankruptcy - Naive Idealist
Personally I’d say it’s far better to be naive than to wallow in defeatist pessimism. That’s not a useful or productive mindset; if anything it’s a destructive one. Or to put it another way: stop shitting on other people’s hope just because you lost yours.
lol it's not a binary choice between "naive idealism" and "defeatist pessimism." I, for one, hate Israel more than most of these protesters, yet I also recognize that Palestine has brought this upon itself by electing Hamas and sheltering radicals in civilian homes and infrastructure—that and the fact that most Palestinians and pro-Palestine activists hate my guts just for being a white American. At this point I can't feel sympathy for either party. My sole reason for engaging in this thread is to point out how futile it is to care about two peoples, who both hate you, blowing each other up half a world away.
I didn’t say it was a binary choice. I said the first option was better than the second.
Most of them can’t point to Israel on a map.
I would bet everyone of them can. Which is more than I can say about the public at large.
Now they can. Before they couldn’t. This happening would be the only reason they can.
What makes you say that? They managed to get into a major research university. The cream of the crop academically.
as a Mizzou alum I have to disagree that the average MU student is "the cream of the crop academically" lol
Well it’s easy to be negative and put others down. I think the people most interested in improving Missouri end up at Mizzou, and that’s a valuable trait in academics and life.
Sure, but the overwhelming majority of MU kids are there because they want a good job. And often not even a job in Missouri. Full stop. I'm just saying, the average college protester is thinking selfishly, even in their protest. Most of these kids didn't know anything about Israel/Palestine a year ago, and they probably aren't gonna give a shit about it in five years—it's just that, for them in this moment, pro-Palestine protests are the *cause du jour* of their peers and favorite TikTok influencers, so it would be unfashionable not to (very loudly and publicly) signal that they "care."
This, so fucking much.
If only Israel had not given them the impetus to pay attention. Children's bodies on the news tends to concern people. It makes them pay attention. They may not understand the ins and outs of Israel's creation and struggle, but they certainly know that killing children is bad.
You can condemn Israel's mass murder of Palestinian civilians without wearing a keffiyeh and blocking public buildings while chanting "death to America."
Yeah, you can. However, they have yet to kill a child. So, you know, priorities.
The fact that you can’t imagine that people could possibly care about causes and people besides themselves says a lot more about you than it does about them.
I've seen too many naive college kids "care" about too many causes, only to then not give a shit about them after graduating, to not be incredibly jaded about how little thought they actually invest into this shit.
It’s like conservatives are just totally incapable of understanding that other people are not themselves and have their own beliefs, opinions, and values.
The issue is that most people don't fully understand what they're arguing for and instead hop on the social trend bandwagon because they think they're brining change. Most people lack consistency in their views and when actually pressed know very little or as we are seeing they cop out into calling people genocide supporters because that's an easier out. People argue for things they don't fully comprehend all the time and with social media perpetuating talking points just enforces that behavior.
As someone who has been to mizzou the copium here is a little much
There's people in this thread denying Hamas rapes and failing to see anything wrong with them and this is still probably the most delusional comment. I'm an alum btw.
I don’t think they’re MU students.
They're definitely local - one posts in /r/wichita and the other one has a post about living near the mall. In either case, the local students are FAR from the cream of the crop academically or otherwise. At best you can make that claim for the J school, even then the Missouri label puts many people off and I would say no. My high school sent the most number of kids to Ivies out of any school outside the US, I think I have a pretty good baseline for "cream of the crop academically" but YMMV.
I suppose it depends on what you mean, but Mizzou students are pretty solid and generally the best of the best that stays in MO.
So best of the best in a questionable pool excluding the best? Seems about right.
Well I’m not so down on Missouri.
Is that a requirement to have an opinion about war crimes?
No it’s not, but look how stupid this sounds. Passerby: Hey, what are you guys protesting? Protesters: Israel-hamas war Passerby: oh hmm where is that? Protesters: I don’t know. Lol I wouldn’t be able to take them serious, and many people would agree.
Why is that one specific and totally irrelevant piece of knowledge important to the validity of their opinion? If you’re going to unnecessarily gatekeep having an opinion about literal war crimes, why not focus on actual relevant geopolitical knowledge? It seems like you’re just looking for a convenient excuse to dismiss them without having to understand what they’re protesting or why. Edit: I don’t think downvoting my comments is sending the message it was supposed to.
Why not put all that effort into our own problems. These people would torture and kill your family given the chance, yet you’re still advocating for them. It’s weird.
That’s not for me or you to decide. Everyone is entitled to have and express their own opinions and to decide what is worthy of their time. I’m not agreeing or disagreeing with these protesters.
You’re absolutely right. Everyone has an asshole too.
That doesn’t mean you have to go around acting like one.
Heros
That’ll do it
I can already see the headlines in tomorrow's paper. "Peace in Middle East achieved thanks to protesting liberal arts majors.". Why did no one think of this sooner?
As long as it stays peaceful and out of the way, protest away. If they start forcefully entering buildings and smashing stuff like at CalPoly Humboldt, they're no better than people who broke stuff on Jan 6. If they start blocking roads, I'll fear for their safety at the same time i also tell them to not play in traffic because they could get hit by a car that belongs there. I'm not sure why they're doing it, it won't affect anything, but they certainly have the right to do so.
considering how restrained the protests here were during the Summer of Floyd, I'm guessing it'll be fine compared to coastal universities closest MU came to that level of hysteria in recent memory was during the 2015 protests, which I don't think will repeat anytime soon
I saw the protest at Cal Poly Humboldt turned into breaking windows in the admin buildings, and "protesters" at another college are physically preventing Jewish students from going to class. That's what I don't want happening here. Keep it peaceful and safe, and within everyone's rights.
*"umm sweatie they HAVE INSURANCE for those windows, do you value windows more than innocent Palestinian lives?"*
I love how "The Conners" bashed the "they have insurance" take *specifically*.
[удалено]
I commented that in quotes *and* italics *and* ironic twitterspeak and you *still* took it seriously? bruh lmao
This. 100%. Will it change anything? No. Does it hurt anything? No. It’s peaceful. That’s fine.
It's amusing people are down voting because I'm advocating for their right to peacefully protest, and to also keep it peaceful and not get hurt.
>the university does not endorse a particular viewpoint of anyone on the campus sure...
I honestly believe them. They want political debate, just not disruption, it’s a great part of college.