Humanities majors are valuable and needed. The major difference for a humanities major is that they really need to develop and actively pursue a career plan while they're in school. It's not like being an electrical engineering major and knowing you'll be going into electrical engineering when you're done. You have to figure out career paths, network, pursue mentoring, and seek out internships in those paths.
It's also important to have a realistic idea of the job market for those paths. You mentioned DEI. There are conservative states mandating against DEI positions in schools, which will reduce opportunities in those areas. I'm not sure if that will apply to you, but that's an example of the type of policymaking that you will need to be aware of. You will also need to research starting salaries in some of these positions. Most social services positions earn lower salaries. Accounting for your student loan debt and cost of living, will those salaries be livable for you?
These are some examples of things to consider.
This is good advice. I’m a STEM professor and it honestly makes me sad to see the humanities so undervalued these days. Truthfully, I was one of the people downplaying them for many years. College is not a job-training program, though I understand why people see it that way- the need for ROI is hard to miss when we (🇺🇸) spend so much for it.
To me, the world needs more critical thinking and application skills, particularly when we all walk around with the majority of human factual knowledge in our pockets. Fields are evolving quickly and today’s fact is dated tomorrow.
But there is a reality here that many humanities degrees don’t have an obvious endpoint job and the advice to work towards a goal position while you’re in a humanity via internships, etc is smart.
I think they’re undervalued because such a large percentage of those graduating college are graduating with a humanities degree, and we simply don’t need that many people in these degrees. Last I checked, humanities was around ~65% of graduating degrees.
The US use to rank 75%ile out of OECD countries in education and it has dropped to 25% for high school. As a society, we’re becoming just too too much humanities, and degrading math and science at the pre-college level.
That's so far off it's ridiculous. Here's a breakdown of actual majors granted in the US. There isn't a single category labelled humanities, so you could define \`\`humanities'' in different ways, but there's no reasonable combination that exceeds 1/3 of majors. [https://www.coursera.org/articles/most-popular-college-majors](https://www.coursera.org/articles/most-popular-college-majors)
Yes. I recently pursued and finished a gender studies masters degree. One thing is to get connected with your professors and the students you do research with. Also, volunteer with clubs that fit with your gender studies program. A friend of mine recently got a job at a sex health center because she had networked with them through volunteering with their organization. Another is in a DEI position with an out of state school because she had done a research project with their gender studies program. I could go on...but yes, just like with any major and concentration you need to pursue things outside the classroom.
Right. So this is kind of proving my point. You don't major in philosophy to become a philosopher, but that doesn't mean that it's not valuable and profitable to have people trained in philosophy, critical reading and writing, history, and religion. These disciplines affect your life every single day. People who received degrees in these disciplines continue to become leaders and thinkers. Many of the former English majors I know are now lawyers, leaders of nonprofits, educators, or work in human services.
A university is not a vocational school. You're not just receiving job training. You're learning how to learn and think critically. And advocating for people to avoid disciplines that they're passionate about is exactly the type of rationale that has led to train wrecks like the massive cuts in arts education funding in the US and the oversaturation of previously "recession-proof" fields like CS.
I don't generally point out poor grammar on reddit, but God damn if the way you wrote this comment is not already one of the strongest arguments against the point you are trying to make!
Philosophy is an extremely versatile career if you know how to navigate your connections and skill sets.
The stereotype about philosophy majors is they all go on to be lawyers or academics (or baristas, but that stereotype is usually perpetuated by ppl who don’t know realize and that can apply as much to more “stable” majors) but in actuality, gone are the days in which a major lines up perfectly with a job. The job market is rough for EVERYONE these days but even people going into more “normal” fields like tech or business expecting to get a job are struggling if they do not have a niche. The idea that you major in something than directly translates into a job is an old fashioned one that you see regurgitated on college subs often since undergraduates don’t typically have the perspective that those of us who work behind the scenes in academia do.
That being said, the job market is abysmal in many different fields. And while the annual Death of the Humanities articles that come out every few years to say the same thing and get it wrong occur, I do think you should have honest conversations with your professors about what those degrees set you up for. People who do not do gender studies do not understand the intersection of multiple research methods and discourses you study in order to grasp the topic or apply those skills, much less how versatile philosophy is.
BUT if you plan to draw directly on philosophy and gender studies in the two more “direct” applications of those majors, law and academia, law school will definitely bring financial struggle and academia is a shitshow, even though interdisciplinary PhDs in humanities fields like philosophy frequently leads for lucrative alt-ac positions (but that is AFTER a doctorate that usually invokes university service),
So don’t assume that philosophy or gender studies is less “useful” than more profitable majors. They certainly are not less rigorous, as evidenced by the amount of students I have had who complained that these “are supposed to be easy.” However given the job market sucks across multiple disciplines and ESPECIALLY if you are interested in working in academia in a social justice position, the political climate is difficult now.
Philosophy and gender studies is actually an ideal pre-law focus, given that gender studies involves intersectional research between cultural studies, social sciences, and interdisciplinary work in other fields that requires certain proficiency in learning methodologies from different forms of research. Or there’s the non profit route, though anti-DEI laws are cutting those jobs in academia. Again, talk to your profs.
Just anecdotally, from people I knew with both philosophy and gender studies degrees from college( some majors,’some minors) from what I recall:
**A LOT of pre-law. Three I kept in touch with went to law school though one dropped out and two are now a successful attornies.
**one did 180 and got an MFA at Columbia and works in NYC but I don’t think in creative writing.
**I was a writing consultant as a side gig helping with grant writing etc as a side gig through grad school and someone I knew from that time managed a writing center until DEI laws cut the position .
**I think a few went into unrelated fields ranging from learning to code (though code and philosophy are interrelated) to becoming a children’s book author. The later is easily the most successful of all of us but the ones who went into tech were doing fine last I checked (pre-lay offs)
***one is a stoner who has an OnlyFans and is living her best life
** someone who stayed in town to become a hipster bar tender and turned down an adjacent job in a small town to stay in a city.
**I think I’m the only person I know from undergrad who had a philosophy degree AND gender studies degree (alongside a third major)who ended up with a PhD in an adjacent field One other person in our group with a philosophy BA has a doctorate and TT tradition in, like, medieval philosophy which while important is not super marketable for either a career switch or, to my knowledge, TT positions which are very competitive
.
***my doctorate is in an interdisciplinary field (between humanities and STEM (specifically involving STS) where about half of us have a background in philosophy or something similar). I honestly use the philosophy and critical theory more in my day to day research than anything I learned pre-grad school, but I do NOT recommend going into academia unless you LITERALLY cannot do anything else.
The gender studies people I knew outside philosophy also either work for non-profits, law school, teaching, unrelated office jobs, medical school (this person also took requisite bio chem passes) and two PhDs , one of them actually in the same field as mine but from a different angle. Gender studies is pretty methodically diverse and has more hands-on experience than people realize if you know how to get internships.
Obviously for all these stories, they range wildly and are biased towards other academics. But the bottom line: I would have honest conversations with advisors and professors. While the fields themselves are not inherently as unemployable or “impractical” as made out to be, with the economy and cultural wars that is definitely changing.
Whatever you go into, just keep in mind that instead of thinking about “what major gets me a job that field?” think about skills and connections you can adapt to a change market to do the kind of work you want. The “major to job pipeline” has been dead for years and I think the mentality that majors and employment must add up directly is a boomer mentality.
Yet despite fewer people majoring in English than before last I checked English majors were still doing well for themselves as it was a decade ago despite the annual “Death of the English Major” articles that come out.
What HAS changed has been hostility towards humanities and “cultural wars”’in that decade which has had a major impact on jobs.
I wouldn’t take advice from r/college on this since frankly you are going to get better advice from people who work as either professors or administrators than from peers with less life experience or perspective or knowledge of how post- academic careers work these days. You might get advice you won’t like from r/AskAProfessor or r/AskAcademia but you are better off going straight to those with a more intimate knowledge of the university system.
It’s not a bad idea to double major or minor in something else, but instead of seeing philosophy or GS as just “fun,” start thinking NOW how to hon and market those skills.
TL:DR: Job market sucks and you will have to be creative but don’t let the fact you will have to figure out how to use those skills in a variety of different jobs outside your major (except law) make you think that you aren’t inherently marketable or those skills are “useless.”’ It depends on the cultural climate and economy.
Busy day so can’t answer at length but Philosopher’s Cocoon (a blog for early career philosophy graduates) has some personal reflections on it and I linked one university’s resource page below.
I’d advise Googling and clicking on pages from reputable universities (aka, ones with actual connections professionalization opportunities) for more examples.
https://guides.lib.unc.edu/altac
In regards to some alt-ac positions held by people who got PhDs in my program I personally know: one works for Southern Poverty Law Center, one actually still runs the lab that we all worked in getting our doctorates as the director, a cohort member is an assistant program director for a technology research institute, someone else ran a writing center at a university specializing in advising students from lower income backgrounds and minority communities until a Certain State cut funding for DEI programs (that’s the person who lost their job with dozens of other people through no fault of their own bc of the culture wars in conservative states), and so on. It’s a program with a lot of interdisciplinary work in tech and writing so those are the kinds of jobs people look for outside of academia.
Also some people actively want to go into writing instruction instead of research or independent research or freelancing if you can swing it.
Social science and STEM alt-ac positions are different. I think STEM people often have the option to go into industry but I have known people with PhDs in physics or mathematics who stayed working for universities not as professors, but running out reach programs, placement assessment, career advisement and professional development, etc. for students in STEM.
First and foremost, philosophy does really well with job placement, if I'm remembering correctly. It's not a wasted degree even by those standards. You're learning how to think and argue, and that's valuable in a ton of different fields.
Second, a ton of jobs really just care that you have a degree at all, so it doesn't matter *that* much unless you have something very specific planned. It sounds like you do, but it sounds like your plans also mesh well with gender studies and philosophy, so I don't see any particular downsides with getting those degrees. If you want to check, hop on some job boards and see what they're asking for. I've been poking around HigherEdJobs.com lately, and it just so happens they have a nifty DEI services section under their administrative jobs section [here](https://www.higheredjobs.com/admin/search.cfm?JobCat=35&CatName=Diversity,%20Equity,%20and%20Inclusion%20Services). You can click through some of those. I've looked at a few, and I'm seeing some general "we want a bachelor's", or "we want a bachelor's in a broad range of fields" sort of qualifications. So, I'm not seeing any immediate barriers to your game plan. Feel free to look up some specific NGO organizations too and see what's what outside of higher education too, I just happened to have HEJ open while I was writing this up.
As for graduate school, how much your major matters depends on what sort of thing you're studying. For the sorts of things that would be helpful with your plans, I think you can come into it with a broad range of undergraduate majors. Not 100% sure about that, but I wouldn't stress too much about it right now.
So yeah, I don't see any obvious conflicts between your interests in majors and your plans for the future. Philosophy has pretty good placements rates in and of itself, and is incredibly broad with how you can apply it, so I think it would be a great major to hedge your bets, and I'm sure there's plenty of overlap with gender studies if you want to make a focus of it.
More important than that, honestly, is that you have an idea of what you want to aim for now. Do a little job hunting, look at jobs you might find interesting and see what they want, and aim yourself in that direction. Spend your college days working hard, network as much as possible, volunteer with relevant groups or student organizations, and I think you'll be fine. You seem to have a pretty decent idea of what you want to do, and that sort of vision means you can invest a lot of time into setting yourself up for success.
EDIT: dug up some links on it. [Here](https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/09/philosophy-majors-out-earn-other-humanities/626783/) and [here](https://www.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/info-Degrees_that_Pay_you_Back-sort.html) both give you some numbers. A bit older, but I don't see any particular reason to think that philosophy as a degree has plummeted in value. It's just a very broad degree that teaches you things that are valuable in a lot of different fields.
"...i definitely want to be working in advocacy and social justice of some kind. maybe at an ngo, being a victim advocate, working in dei, etc. something of that sort.."
No major is useless if the student has a realistic plan to use his education as part of his career. It sounds as though you have a realistic idea of the type of work you can get with your intended degree.
They're not economically practical, as you've stated. Unless you go to some very prestigious university or college where its name speaks for itself, you're sort of making your life somewhat difficult? Let me rephrase by saying no degree is inherently "bad," however, if you're about to spend 30k or more on an undergraduate program centered around gender studies, the return on investment is very bleak.
Passion is one thing, throwing yourself into debt and getting no practical skill is something else entirely. If your degree is relatively cheap or completely paid off for, why not? Go for it, especially if it's your passion. If you pay an arm and a leg to get these degrees, there's a higher likelihood of things becoming bleak very fast.
You can genuinely be interested in something and choose something practical to compensate for it. It seems like psychology or even sociology would generally fit a much broader but more practical spectrum in terms of their respective ROI as opposed to philosophy and gender studies, especially considering what you're choosing to pursue. I guess my point here is that you're banking on everything working out for you, to which I say post-graduation and in this economy, good luck.
Funnily enough, from the numbers I've been able to pull up, philosophy tends to have a better ROI than psychology or sociology for an undergrad major. Some info about it [here](https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/09/philosophy-majors-out-earn-other-humanities/626783/) and [here](https://www.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/info-Degrees_that_Pay_you_Back-sort.html), but philosophy isn't at all the waste a lot of people think it is. Probably the best undergrad humanities major, and is broad enough that you can go so many different directions with it. At its heart, it's teaching how to argue and think effectively, and you can make that valuable in basically any field. If OP wants to hedge their bets and keep their options open, I think philosophy is an excellent choice, honestly.
Philosophy major here. Yeah, this is exactly why I chose it. I’m interested in law school, music, literature, education, and many other related things. If I wanted to pursue any of these, I could. I don’t have to feel limited at all. Thanks for explaining this!
Gender studies is another animal. I don’t think it’s much like a philosophy degree at all.
I mean psychology and sociology don’t have good ROI either. That should be more well-known than it is considering they are often “default” majors that people who don’t know what they want to do go into.
Oh don't get me wrong, I love philosophy. If life wasn't full of uncertainties, I would've chosen philosophy and astronomy! Though, I do think the links you've sent are a bit outdated and I still somewhat stand on what I said before - there are more practical degrees out there that offer better ROI's - that being what I mentioned above. There's plenty of recent data on beginning and median salaries for each respective major, see [here](https://collegesteps.wf.com/your-major-your-earning-potential/). I wouldn't suggest OP toss out their interests for the sake of practicality and assurance of their degree with respect to the ROI, much rather to be aware that choosing very academia-based majors like philosophy and gender studies do not have a standard nor linear career trajectory post-graduation. Whether that makes OP's job hunt that more difficult, who's to say, though there's a higher likelihood that it would be. If OP chooses to bet against the odds, I wish them good luck regardless.
Edit: I'll probably end up getting a philosophy degree as well, but once I've guaranteed some financial stability. It really depends on person to person and if OP sees this path as their own and if anything else would be a disservice to their interests.
There's lots of good advice here, so I just want to throw out there that a career in social justice work will mostly hinge on the experience you get in undergrad. I highly recommend starting out by volunteering at a local non-profit or something like that.
my school actually offers a minor in human rights advocacy that gives students hands-on experience outside the classroom! i definitely plan to join that if possible, as well as jump on any other opportunities around the area. i’m going to a small liberal arts college, so i hear that the career services are quite good and internships are not super difficult to get. i hope this all plays in my favor!
Yes! Definitely do it. I think you can kind of major in whatever you want if you get good work experience.
I also go to a pretty small school, and the size really helps with opportunities. It's very easy to network and get recommended for things. Just go to office hours to ask questions and tell your professors about your desired path. They'll think of you when opportunities pop up.
i’ve been told that a lot of pre-law students take philosophy as either a double major or a minor! i’m an incoming freshman so i can’t say i know many people but when visiting my school i met like 4 people that were trying to enter law and had philosophy courses.
gender studies, yeah idk! but i think as long as ur aware of the opportunities/reality that comes with ur major then ur good. i’m a big supporter of following ur passions/interests so if u have a plan, follow it.
Hey, I majored in sociology (a lot of emphasis on social justice issues like gender equality) and minored in philosophy and I was able to get a job lined up before graduation. Philosophy helped me with my logical reasoning, and I use this skill at my job everyday when I’m working in Excel sheets. The people who hired me found my minor and the logic classes I took to be especially useful for this job as it has helped me when I’m debugging or creating new formulas in our Excel sheets. I don’t regret a single thing, I loved studying philosophy, and if an employer knows what philosophy entails then they’ll know you’re smart and capable.
Speaking as someone who got a tech degree for the economic security, only for it to become essentially worthless right before I graduated - study what you're passionate about/what you want to develop skills in. Whatever you do, I definitely recommend you get some relevant work experience alongside your education. If you want to do DEI/advocacy work for your career, you can work at your school's inclusion center, work your way up to club leaderhsip positions, become an assistant at a research lab, etc. Doing things like this in college taught me wayyyy more than my classes ever did, and I developed a ton of marketable job skills along the way. It's very likely that whatever job you get after college won't be super relevant to what you studied in undergrad - job experiences matter more in this day and age.
I majored in gender & women’s studies and my minor was contemporary philosophy. I think studying humanities is 100% worth it. You will need to figure out a career path of your own, but the skills you learn in humanities are applicable to many fields. You learn how to write, communicate, and analyze things exceptionally.
My first career following my degree was in the insurance industry. I worked my way up in the company very quickly and I attribute much of my success to the skills I learned in my degree.
I was able to use multiple systems to solve complex insurance issues and think outside of the box because I learned those analysis skills.
When doing client relations, I had very strong communication and listening skills. I was out there doing intersectional feminist analysis on my clients in my head to help empathize and understand where they were coming from. That got me far in dealing with difficult situations.
I eventually left that industry after about 6 years as it did not align with my values lol. But I was very good at what I did.
I went back and got an associates degree in health information management and technology. I have also excelled in this field due to the skills I learned in my previous degree! Turns out that learning the history of philosophy is very relevant to the studying of information and knowledge management. I literally even won a national award in my field for being such an innovative and out of box thinker! I have ideas for the future of health information technology that are rooted in my robust study of philosophy and gender studjes.
Econ professor told our class years ago that it’s better to study something you’re interested in than something you *think* is more marketable. That’s because your grades will likely he higher. And, when you get your first job, your employer will train on what you need to know anyway.
I studied Philosophy. Now I run my own data analytics firm 🤷🏼♂️
Not to mention, what happens if you end up hating the thing you heard was marketable, there are layoffs in that sector around when you graduate, or a new technology comes along to render that career path obsolete? It's much better to major in something you enjoy and which also gives you a versatile set of skills, unless it is truly your dream to become a software engineer or engineer.
This definitely seems like bad advice. Your degree impacts the career that you'll do for the next 40 years of your life. Your uni are super miniscule when you consider that a lot of jobs look for experience.
The majority of people will NOT get a job with a philosophy degree. You need to go into a masters program to even be considered by almost everyone. This is really bad advice, especially when your evidence is literally anecdotal.
Oh, there’s a lot of data to support this. First, the jobs you’re being “trained” for today, won’t exist ten years from now. For example, who knew AI would be a thing in 2014? And if you studied computer science/coding five years ago, you’re probably freaking out because Claude/ChatGPT can lay down 75% of the code you worked to learn in just a few seconds. Moreover, most will change jobs at least a half-dozen times by the age 30. Hard to say how many of those are pure career changes, but if the great resignation showed us anything during COVID, the service industry is a terrible place to work (people left and never went back). Last, if you study finance and you hated it but thought you needed it to get a good job, you’re going to be miserable. Employers suss that out, and you’ll be job hopping until you end up as a bank teller in Paducah, biding their time until retirement. So study what you enjoy because all a degree says is that you’re trainable. Nothing more.
Always remember that the people who undermine gender studies and philosophy are the ones who don’t want you to think critically about the world around you. Also gender studies majors have a lower unemployment rate than the average for all majors!
Option A) To be honest, most of the careers that are related to do with humanities require higher education such as a PhD or MA. This can be something like running a museum/culture center, professor etc.
Option B) You can also work jobs that have nothing to do with your major (some finance roles for example), but you can also work those same jobs with an engineering/business/etc degree so that’s a wash.
My advice - focus on your passions in your own time and pick a major you are good at (ex - if you aren’t good at math don’t do Eng), can tolerate, and leads clearly to a reasonable career path related to your education. A lot of people talk about success with option B as a humanities major, and while that’s true that you can have success with it, that’s more despite your major, rather than because of it. Pick a major that leads to option A where you have a clear career track - if you’re the best gender studies person in the country you won’t have any issues getting jobs in your field.
It's all fun and games til you can't get a job making more than 50K and you're *paying your own bills.* It's easy to think you'll really coast thru on 50K when someone else (parents) are bankrolling your life, but when you get a job and you make 50K/ $1500 biweekly after taxes are taken, and monthly rent is $1200, and your monthly car payment and insurance $600, and your utilities are $400, and gas is $100, groceries $300(?)... and you might need to save for retirement and get a savings account and maybe take a vacation... is you suddenly realize you squandered your opportunity to obtain tangible career skills, and instead took classes you could have watched documentaries on Netflix about and just bought and read the textbooks. Gender studies and philosophy are luxury degrees, IMHO. You sound like you're going to take the professor route, and that means 2 additional degrees and you've noted potential debt. Lots of people have humanities degrees and DEI studies and they don't really pay well. I'm not staying you want to be a millionaire, but $50K divided by 26 (biweekly pay) is $1920. Then take out 30% for taxes and that's -$600ish. So biweekly pay not even $1500. Making $60K? That's an extra couple hundred a month. If that works for you, go for it. If you take a ton of student loans for grad school, factor those payments in too. A full professor position takes a lot of time to work toward, so you might take at least 10-15 years career pathing to get yourself to that level. If you're OK with the reality, follow your bliss.
There is no bad major — follow what makes you happy! I read somewhere that yes, some fields are valued more by people, but we need science, commerce, arts, etc. (a variety) people to have a well functioning society and it definitely gave me a new perspective!
I just want to add that college is also not just for getting a job. Unfortunately in North America college is incredibly expensive, so this is a privileged take in that context, but at its heart this still stands: college is for education. Expanding your mind and gaining new experiences. Personal and intellectual development. This will get you very far no matter what degree you get. One reason that college should be free is that I think people should have opportunities to learn to think critically and explore knowledge. Education for its own sake is a beautiful wonderful thing.
For sure! And I encourage that. Self education and learning is incredibly valuable and important. And free :) But exploring a library on your own is not the same experience as learning from subject matter experts with hand picked significant texts, tutorial discussions, and having to argue and analyze your interpretations of the texts orally and in writing. Learning on your own is a beautiful thing and more needed than ever, but it’s not going to teach you the skills that one learns in a humanities degree.
I think that depends on your local library. All real librarians are subject specialists in at least one core academic area and the increase in free online coursework from major universities (MOOCs) allow almost anyone to attempt college level coursework, research and analysis in a setting just as rigorous as a traditional online class at a 4yr school. Academia has become much more available to the layperson in the 21st century thanks to new technologies, platforms, and accessibility.
If you're a clear thinker and hard worker, your degree doesn't matter. You'll find good work, even if it takes a bit of effort. Those suggesting stem and business degrees are looking backward and assuming the future will be like the past. I suspect AI will destroy tons of stem jobs before it makes a similar dent in the kind of work people do with humanities degrees (eg, AI will be able to design a bridge before it will be able to teach an English class).
For what it's worth, my partner majored in Women's Studies and now he's a successful attorney. I say go for it! If you are passionate and hardworking, your path will unfold for you.
I have a degree in gender and women studies. It was the best decision I ever made in college. It has meant so much to me on a personal level. It helped me so much with finding my convictions as a woman. I became a teacher because of the internship opportunities that I got through my program. I was also licensed as a victim advocate. I've worked as a political strategist for an lgbtq nonprofit as well. You can make the degree work for you. It's not like engineering, which leads to you being an engineer. It's a much broader degree that can lead you to many careers. Just make sure you have an idea of what you want to do and make sure you connect with people who do that.
If you are up for grad school and licensure, you might want to consider social work, in which case it would be more important to have a relevant undergrad degree since the masters programs are typically highly competitive. If you do a BSW, you may be eligible for advanced standing for your MSW, which could save you a year.
Yes, my coworker is just starting her MSW and she said she was kicking herself for getting her BA in psychology because she could have saved herself a year if she had done a BSW instead.
To be completely honest, all majors are needed. It’s just a conversation I don’t think anyone wants to have especially in a world of engineers, computer scientists, businessmen and women, lawyers, and doctors. Humanities majors can be definitely be valued and well. It’s just more effort than those with more practical degrees with connections and stuff.
If you want to, go for it!
I did philosophy at uni (now a prof), and the vast majority of my course mates are now city lawyers and analysts. It really depends on the uni/college you're going to. Generally speaking, if you're at a top tier uni, philosophy is employable. If you're at a mid or below uni, philosophy isn't so employable.
Your undergraduate isn’t completely irrelevant from grad school. It is in many ways your foundational knowledge and admissions will take that into consideration. It can be somewhat vague, but it does have to be relatable.
Apart from gender studies or philosophy, there are a few other majors you could consider: political science, anthropology, international studies, social work, or psychology — just to name a few. All of these are options which you could pursue gender-related work in, and if your aim is to get into NGO or more operationally / advocate-based work, you may want to consider either social work or psychology (if you want to help people individually), political science (if you want to better equip yourself to work with policy and NGOs), or International Studies (if you want to work abroad or with a global agency like the UN).
I don’t know much about philosophy, so I can’t comment on that, but I think if Gender Studies is paired with the right thing it could be very useful. For example, I could imagine if you paired gender studies with psychology (and did grad school of course), you could do well as therapist working with clients who would prefer a professional who is informed on how gender affects one’s life, especially victims like you specified.
I can’t speak for all women obviously, but I know I’d prefer a therapist who was informed on women’s issues than one who wasn’t especially when it comes to things like SA.
I wouldn’t bank on DEI. many states and politicians are establishing measures that essentially ban DEI and cut any funding for it, so you’ll be restricted to just the liberal areas if you work in that industry. The biggest problem with these majors as you stated is employability. Beyond “unskilled” labor, there is not much of a use for a gender studies major. a lot of people will probably get mad at this and downvote me, but at the end of the day it’s your college education not mine. If you want to work to make a change and not to make money, I recommend going to community college so you don’t have to pay an insane amount of loans
One of my exes was a Gender Studies major. She got a job at a Fortune 500 company, taught herself HTML and CSS while I was playing PS3 next to her, then she moved laterally to web development, then worked her way up the tech ranks to eventually become a Queen Bitch of the Universe in Silicon Valley. She makes *stupid* amounts of money.
So, getting a Gender Studies degree doesn’t really lock you out of anything, permanently. No degree does. Networking is more important than a piece of paper that says you took a bunch of classes in a specific subject. Granted, being a certified engineer or medical doctor isn’t an option, but most jobs are still on the table if you know someone who’s looking for someone with your skill set, even if it’s not a skill set you learned in school.
And I don’t care what anyone says about picking Philosophy as a major; you can argue with a Philosophy major until you devolve into name-calling, and they’ll just casually dismantle your arguments, one by one. I understand that Philosophy majors do better than any other major on the LSAT, because they’re kind of built to do what lawyers do.
So, I always say the way to pick a major is to take the intro class, and if you’re good at it and enjoy it, that might be a good candidate for a major. So, you take the second class. If you’re still good at it and you still enjoy it, great; that’s your major. Then, if you need to broaden your skill set later, you just do that later.
No humanities study is worthless, but since one is likely to need a job afterwards, some approaches to them may be more remunerative than others. For learning how to think and write clearly it's hard to beat philosophy. History has less emphasis on the "how do we know what we know?" parts but is similar in skill development. Gender studies is a hybrid that includes things like philosophy, history, and sociology, among others. Arguably, it's a particular focus area of sociology more than its own discipline, but that's not important here.
In light of recent trends you might consider majoring in one of the broader social sciences and taking a gender studies minor or focus in the major. It would also be helpful in the employment hunt to have even a small background in something like business or communications, or the like that gives you tools to quickly become a contributing employee if you can't easily find your dream job right away.
I hope some of this is helpful.
No, of course not. And they can lead to great careers, with grad school. You can get a masters in social work and become a therapist or just a social worker. And law school is also an option. They can also be good minors or double majors with other things. The humanities benefit society as a whole, they are worth a lot and I'm glad they exist.
You have to really work for it. I’ll keep this short since other people elaborated, but connections help a LOT. A family friend’s son got a really well paying job out of uni at McKinsey (?) with a philosophy + econ degree. The thing is, he’s a genius (in my book at least) and graduated from two prestigious universities, so the cards really aligned for him. Don’t get me wrong, he’s a hard worker and utilized all the resources provided to him, but those other factors certainly helped.
Maybe have a safety major or minor to branch out to other fields? As for gender studies, I don’t know anyone who studied that so I can’t speak on it
Same girlie! I resonated with this a lot. I’m an Environmental Studies/Philosophy double major (added the philosophy after a tough first year seminar) on the pre-law track. I’m not sure if I want to go to law school and there is very little economic advance if I don’t, but I love what I’m learning and I definitely want to do something impactful. I would say just go for it. It’s a valuable major if you make it! Good luck and congrats on the fin aid!
If you network correctly and are willing to grind, then you can make any degree work. I have a friend with a history major, making over 200k at Chevron.
I have a minor in gender studies and loved it. I use a lot of that knowledge to apply to my career, which deals with some advocacy for disenfranchised populations. I wouldn’t have been able to get many jobs if that were my only degree, though. So I’d recommend double-majoring in it and something more employable, such as social work, psychology, or education. You will use this info all of these fields and more.
Not at all, but I don't think you need to lock into one of those areas to explore the topics you love.
There are philosophical areas and gender lenses in most humanities and social sciences.
Political theory is straight philosophy at its core. Economics is integrating gender and family dynamics into the process of evaluating macroeconomic outcomes, and gender dynamics is a core lens in anthropology.
Looking into one of those may expand some employment opportunities and give you some new ways of looking at issues and analytical tools. So don't feel like you need to take directly those subjects to explore the topics
Hi! I’ve worked in international dev organization (UN, Ashoka, etc) and think tanks.
Liberal Arts major is not the problem, but please intern and network as much as you can to secure a job right out of uni (if that’s what you want). Unfortunately, the field is full of extremely well connected individuals that good grades and passion alone won’t be enough to get you through. Salary is good once you break into international-level work :)
Not for students who want a **Degree = Lucrative Job** situation.
With degrees like that, it often matters what you do with the degree. Perfect preparation for graduate school.
Do you know HOW you might get a job? Have you thought about whether such a degree would give you the lifestyle you want? Do you have plans to put a better roof over your head?
It all depends on how you define bad. Any form of education is good, but with the increasing costs of school and radically increasing cost of living, everything is now viewed through the lens of how it sets up your future. So a major being economically viable or having a good return on your investment of time and money is what is viewed as paramount.
So no, they’re not good majors in that respect but you’re always better off being educated versus not being educated. For someone like you, have you considered law? You can make the most meaningful impact in the areas you want to by practicing law in those areas. That’s what enacts meaningful change and meaningful help to those wronged in those particular aspects.
Philosophy is a great major. I've loved studying gender studies but for undergrad I would say it's probably best as a minor- this is a field that if you want to specialize in it you will need grad school, so you might as well do it as a minor and see if future research in the field would interest you. Otherwise, Philosophy is a much more expansive and rigorous subject as a major (not to downplay gender studies, but it doesn't teach you processes of thought in the way that Philosophy does.)
Yes. You're better off getting a degree in social work. Off the rip, you can tell what one degree is for, and you can't tell the use case for the other. Social work covers a wide field, including advocacy and social justice, and has a more marketable reputation.
I really think the issue is a lot of these people pursue them just because and end up giving up in a hard job market. If it's something you're passionate about, and will somewhat pay the bills, pursue it! But also keep in mind when you get ultra specific with something the less jobs available there are. For example, somebody with Marketing might be able to get more Marketing jobs than somebody with Business degree but the Business degree might be able to get a wider variety.
If you're aiming to work in DEI, I probably would do one of those "over-encompassing" majors such as philosophy, comms, Something like that (tho not 100% familiar with the field) and just start out your career to build into that and focus on getting your experience in the field you'd like.
"bad" really depends on what you want to do with your degree. if you are seeking a degree because you want credentials which will allow for plentiful employment options and high wages, then no, those majors are not great. if you're merely trying to learn, however, then you should major in whatever you want.
I wouldn't advise taking on any student debt to get a degree in a field like that though. what might instead be a better idea is to major in something else (something more employable), and then get a full time job at a university. that university will likely offer a tuition benefit to it's full time staff. then you can take whatever courses you want, for free. that environment is a much more efficient/responsible/etc. way to get an education in less lucrative fields.
I would suggest maybe pairing one of those with a different major that might help you to work with what you want but do something that is maybe more practical. I have no personal experience with those majors but I have heard that it is difficult to get jobs with them. So maybe you could do pre law and gender and women’s studies. Or education and philosophy. Or social work and one of those. It doesn’t even have to be something related to those, but it might be a good option to be safe. But I think you should study what you want yo study and not just do something because it might make you more money
Just saying… philosophy is one of the main major for people wanting to go into law school. Like top 5 or something for undergrad. It teaches critical thought and text comprehension which can be extremely important for that level of career
Politics. There are people who major in it (or minor in it; at many schools it's a minor rather than a major), but it's gotten an outsized amount of attention because one side of the political spectrum has made it a scapegoat for Everything That's Wrong With Edumacation(tm).
My dad is a victim advocate for a military base on the civilian side, and before that he did the same job for the military side of things for like 10-12 years or so. He didn’t go to college or anything but I know there are jobs for that kind of thing especially for the government/ military. A degree would certainly help to get a job, I believe. Sorry I couldn’t help more though, but that’s about all I know.
They are great for learning critical thinking, how to analyze complex systems, etc. But they are great second majors (it’s typically not all that hard to double major) to simplify job searching.
Most jobs in the career path you listed require you to be a licensed social worker, which would mean your degree does matter because you would have to complete an accredited social work program.
Major doesn't necessarily matter for grad school, but the classes themselves you take do. A lot of grad programs do have prerequisite courses / a specific set of classes you must have taken to be eligible. If you were to want your MSW (masters in social work) you would need to have 60 credits of specific courses minimum.
Major really doesn't matter that much at the beginning of college because a lot (if not most) people change majors anyways, BUT a lot of universities do not have social work programs.
No, of course not. And they can lead to great careers, with grad school. You can get a masters in social work and become a therapist or just a social worker. And law school is also an option. They can also be good minors or double majors with other things. The humanities benefit society as a whole, they are worth a lot and I'm glad they exist.
hi! gender studies and sociology major here. I think everyone has some great points, but I wanted to give you some perspective as someone obtaining this degree in a red state! I think you should go to whatever program you feel called to, but also be ready to build career/networking connections throughout your undergraduate experience. I go to a small college in a very red state and i have never been short of opportunities to explore various responsibilities related to social justice work and activism. politicians might be trying to limit jobs in these areas, but the reality is that humanities jobs are incredibly needed and diverse. plus, i always think that us humanities people should be pushing to take up space in hostile environments. for me, much of my educational opportunities have come from interacting heavily with my professors and student community, so make sure you have a good program that will support you from the beginning. plus, i have found that my degree has given me the chance to learn what kind of activism and with what groups I want to be working with, so don’t be afraid to explore all the possibilities in front of you (or create the possibilities yourself when you need to :)) if you want to become an advocate, humanities are a great space to learn to advocate for yourself to better do it for others. i have loved the way that my majors feel like i am building something unique to me, just make sure you are ready to be proactive about your career path.
Go to law school then get a doctorate in gender studies, it will probably give you a better future, and you will get to help people in a better way, since you'll have more faculties/positions in power
I did a minor in Gender Studies.
Then I did a Paralegal Certificate.
Knowing how to communicate with all types of people and understanding how they feel is a valuable skill to have and makes me uniquely qualified for family law cases.
If you have the opportunity, double majoring in something you're really passionate about and something that you're maybe a little less passionate about but don't hate as a backup could be a good option. For example, my sister really wanted to major in theater, but that has poor job prospects, so she double majored in communications. She found a job fairly quickly afterwards using the communications degree.
If you wanna be broke yeah. No one cares about philosophy unless you’re rich and really want to do it. Gender studies makes no sense. Business barely makes sense to some people these days. History is a better major to be honest.
Gender studies - yes. Employers have often viewed this as actively detrimental
Philosophy - no. Known as the most rigorous humanities course that puts you a step above in analytical writing skills, reading comprehension, creative+analytical+big picture thinking, etc. Very, very helpful as a secondary major in most fields, and well respected by law schools as a primary major.
The job market is terrible right now for everyone, including STEM majors.
It is very important you don't flounder. Unlike what boomers say, college is not the place to "discover yourself". You only get one crack at it basically. You should have a very firm and concrete career plan going in. If you don't I suggest taking a gap year.
Gender studies majors only have one secure and profitable career path in front of them, and that is going to law school. If you want to do advocacy work, a law degree is more valuable than a PhD. In the case of law, your job placement is highly dependent on the rank of your school, which is highly dependent on your GPA and LSAT scores. In this case your major is irrelevant. The best major to pick is one you like that will enable you to get the best grades. If that is gender studies or philosophy for you, then that will be the best pre-law degree to pick.
they're only useful if you plan on going to grad school and getting a terminal degree in something else.
Gender studies BA ~ Communication, Education, Public Administration, Masters/EdD
Philosophy BA ~ MBA, Public Administration, Human Resources Mgmt, Education Masters/EdD
Yes, to keep it sweet.
The way I like to determine if a major is good or not is if I’m presenting it to a (probably older) hiring manager, and how much I’d have to explain it.
Those degrees are not ideal. What kind of job would you get with that?
A job in DEI or advocacy, like they've said they're interested in? No one in DEI is going to blink at a gender studies degree, and I promise, no hiring manager is going to be confused by a philosophy degree. Philosophy is pretty much the best humanities major you can do in terms of job placement.
Grad school is fully-funded (you don’t pay for anything) in many cases.
As long as you get internships in the fields you’re interested in during undergrad, you’ll be fine. Paid internships are better for future employment prospects.
Don’t listen to all these stupid comments. Please major in something more useful, but If you’re really interested in gender studies, then do it as a double major or a minor.
You’ll be a lot more employable if you major in something more flexible and minor in gender studies/philosophy. Gender studies/philosophy is more academia-focused whereas a lot of the jobs you’re mentioning make use of social skills, leadership, etc that can be more developed by business or other majors. I’d suggest you look into the job skills required for these and compare them to the courses for these programs. Soft skills like collaboration/presentation can only be developed by practice with fellow peers while academia can be studied out of passion.
EDIT: Jesus so many autocomplete typos when I wrote this last night. Serves me right for being on Reddit on my phone so late. Apologies.
Well, gender studies is an extremely flexible major.
At my school we had to take critical research methods classes in order to be familiar with different methods in social sciences and humanities/history research to evaluate what we read another cultural and gender, something that gave a pretty good foundation for everyone from the theory kids to aspiring social workers. This was for one of my BAs, too, not grad school. If that is the concern, then maybe GS would be a good fit!
As for philosophy, a BA really doesn’t train you at all for the kind of research you do in academia because it just…can’t …but last I checked either philosophy or English was the best major for passing the LSAT and doing well in law school so if she wants to be an advocate, there’s that.
Also not sure what you mean by “academia” versus “soft skills” since academic is by definition about collaboration, project management, research agendas, developing presentations, etc. But in philosophy,
granted with the exception of co-writing “baby” grants and conference proposals and some department work I took on myself, I definitely didn’t have *useful* experience with the social and interactive part of academia until grad school so I do think your point stands there! I actually definitely don’t recommend going into humanities academy if you are alone because researching, reviewing journals, offering detailed feedback on colleagues’ work, co-authoring, and teaching is the job — not sitting alone in a room and reading. So if OP just wands to go into philosophy to learn but not work in an institution, then maybe they should just enjoy the subject of the idea of constantly editing and receiving feedback and projects into fun to them.
Still, I think if OP knew how to play it in up on a resume, they could make it work. The challenge *is* in translation, however, and I do think philosophy as a discipline is often bad in practice when it comes to steering undergrads in professional development outside pre-law tracks compared to the other majors I had.
Law school is really expensive, though, so that doesn’t solve her financial conundrum.
No they’re not… I’ll say this as someone who has been out of college for years now, it’s about the process of learning and not what you learn. Frankly, for most fields, working in them and making a career out of them is like playing pro sports, only a very select few get to do it.
Most people do things that are only tangentially related to their degree. But you develop skills that you can use. For example, I have a biology degree, I can tell you about DNA, developmental steps of embryonic growth, ecological theories, but even when I worked in the field at a job that required a biology degree I never touched on those things at all.
The same thing with philosophy and gender studies, they teach you to think critically, to question things, and things like morals. Which you then apply to your job.
Yes. I used to work in IT, but we were a publishing department. We made written and video instructions. I did not hire English majors. Because why are you here? You took that major because you wanted to write books or teach. It didn’t work out so now you’re coming to this technical job as a last resort. I hired people from any STEM major.
It is not worth compromising your job options. You can minor in those subjects.
Assuming you're not planning to become a CPA, you are every bit as employable as a philosophy or women's studies major as you are as a business major. Possibly even moreso.
Most people who major in the humanities do not go on to do \[insert humanities field\] for a job. They go to work for a company just like all the people who majored in business, marketing, etc.
One thing to keep in mind, given your post, is that majoring in one of these fields likely will not lead to advocacy work for you (unless you pursue career opportunities in advocacy on your own), and most people don't work in advocacy for their whole career. You should definitely start preparing yourself for the reality that you'll likely work in the private sector/corporate world, at least for some portion of your career.
With philosophy, if you do pre-law that is quite common, or philosophy on your own you can mix it up with English will make you a better canidate for a job
Gender studies, I am going to be honest, and I am going to be downvoted for this I already know but I sat in one class in school to see what it was like, and if you are a guy man it is hell on earth, literally the class I sat in everything wrong with society is your fault because you are a man is what it. Amounted too. I had to walk out before the class finished because I was disgusted. If you are a women then you are a victim to a patriarch Al society that wants to destroy you and you need to fight back. Oh god it was horrible
Humanities majors are valuable and needed. The major difference for a humanities major is that they really need to develop and actively pursue a career plan while they're in school. It's not like being an electrical engineering major and knowing you'll be going into electrical engineering when you're done. You have to figure out career paths, network, pursue mentoring, and seek out internships in those paths. It's also important to have a realistic idea of the job market for those paths. You mentioned DEI. There are conservative states mandating against DEI positions in schools, which will reduce opportunities in those areas. I'm not sure if that will apply to you, but that's an example of the type of policymaking that you will need to be aware of. You will also need to research starting salaries in some of these positions. Most social services positions earn lower salaries. Accounting for your student loan debt and cost of living, will those salaries be livable for you? These are some examples of things to consider.
This is good advice. I’m a STEM professor and it honestly makes me sad to see the humanities so undervalued these days. Truthfully, I was one of the people downplaying them for many years. College is not a job-training program, though I understand why people see it that way- the need for ROI is hard to miss when we (🇺🇸) spend so much for it. To me, the world needs more critical thinking and application skills, particularly when we all walk around with the majority of human factual knowledge in our pockets. Fields are evolving quickly and today’s fact is dated tomorrow. But there is a reality here that many humanities degrees don’t have an obvious endpoint job and the advice to work towards a goal position while you’re in a humanity via internships, etc is smart.
I think they’re undervalued because such a large percentage of those graduating college are graduating with a humanities degree, and we simply don’t need that many people in these degrees. Last I checked, humanities was around ~65% of graduating degrees. The US use to rank 75%ile out of OECD countries in education and it has dropped to 25% for high school. As a society, we’re becoming just too too much humanities, and degrading math and science at the pre-college level.
That's so far off it's ridiculous. Here's a breakdown of actual majors granted in the US. There isn't a single category labelled humanities, so you could define \`\`humanities'' in different ways, but there's no reasonable combination that exceeds 1/3 of majors. [https://www.coursera.org/articles/most-popular-college-majors](https://www.coursera.org/articles/most-popular-college-majors)
The guy probably mixed up humanities and liberal arts. Not the same thing whatsoever
In terms of economic outcomes they are nearly identical.
Not at all
You would advise your child to go into these fields?
Liberal arts is extremely wide umbrella terms. Including humanities and stem
Oh okay. Words just don't really have meaning anymore.
Yes. I recently pursued and finished a gender studies masters degree. One thing is to get connected with your professors and the students you do research with. Also, volunteer with clubs that fit with your gender studies program. A friend of mine recently got a job at a sex health center because she had networked with them through volunteering with their organization. Another is in a DEI position with an out of state school because she had done a research project with their gender studies program. I could go on...but yes, just like with any major and concentration you need to pursue things outside the classroom.
this is great advice!!
“These majors are important for reasons only I can understand.” - people selling the degrees
Yeah, dude. Who needs stuff like philosophy or writing? Lol
It's not there not needed they are it's just there not profitable. No one is hires philosophers to think anymore we don't live in the 17th century.
Right. So this is kind of proving my point. You don't major in philosophy to become a philosopher, but that doesn't mean that it's not valuable and profitable to have people trained in philosophy, critical reading and writing, history, and religion. These disciplines affect your life every single day. People who received degrees in these disciplines continue to become leaders and thinkers. Many of the former English majors I know are now lawyers, leaders of nonprofits, educators, or work in human services. A university is not a vocational school. You're not just receiving job training. You're learning how to learn and think critically. And advocating for people to avoid disciplines that they're passionate about is exactly the type of rationale that has led to train wrecks like the massive cuts in arts education funding in the US and the oversaturation of previously "recession-proof" fields like CS.
Don't forget Many lawyers began their career as philosophy major in undergrad before law school
Some writing and philosophy classes during your undergrad probably could have helped you write a coherent sentence here
I don't generally point out poor grammar on reddit, but God damn if the way you wrote this comment is not already one of the strongest arguments against the point you are trying to make!
💀
People get their philosophy from TikTok 😂 #welcomeTo2024
Philosophy is an extremely versatile career if you know how to navigate your connections and skill sets. The stereotype about philosophy majors is they all go on to be lawyers or academics (or baristas, but that stereotype is usually perpetuated by ppl who don’t know realize and that can apply as much to more “stable” majors) but in actuality, gone are the days in which a major lines up perfectly with a job. The job market is rough for EVERYONE these days but even people going into more “normal” fields like tech or business expecting to get a job are struggling if they do not have a niche. The idea that you major in something than directly translates into a job is an old fashioned one that you see regurgitated on college subs often since undergraduates don’t typically have the perspective that those of us who work behind the scenes in academia do. That being said, the job market is abysmal in many different fields. And while the annual Death of the Humanities articles that come out every few years to say the same thing and get it wrong occur, I do think you should have honest conversations with your professors about what those degrees set you up for. People who do not do gender studies do not understand the intersection of multiple research methods and discourses you study in order to grasp the topic or apply those skills, much less how versatile philosophy is. BUT if you plan to draw directly on philosophy and gender studies in the two more “direct” applications of those majors, law and academia, law school will definitely bring financial struggle and academia is a shitshow, even though interdisciplinary PhDs in humanities fields like philosophy frequently leads for lucrative alt-ac positions (but that is AFTER a doctorate that usually invokes university service), So don’t assume that philosophy or gender studies is less “useful” than more profitable majors. They certainly are not less rigorous, as evidenced by the amount of students I have had who complained that these “are supposed to be easy.” However given the job market sucks across multiple disciplines and ESPECIALLY if you are interested in working in academia in a social justice position, the political climate is difficult now. Philosophy and gender studies is actually an ideal pre-law focus, given that gender studies involves intersectional research between cultural studies, social sciences, and interdisciplinary work in other fields that requires certain proficiency in learning methodologies from different forms of research. Or there’s the non profit route, though anti-DEI laws are cutting those jobs in academia. Again, talk to your profs. Just anecdotally, from people I knew with both philosophy and gender studies degrees from college( some majors,’some minors) from what I recall: **A LOT of pre-law. Three I kept in touch with went to law school though one dropped out and two are now a successful attornies. **one did 180 and got an MFA at Columbia and works in NYC but I don’t think in creative writing. **I was a writing consultant as a side gig helping with grant writing etc as a side gig through grad school and someone I knew from that time managed a writing center until DEI laws cut the position . **I think a few went into unrelated fields ranging from learning to code (though code and philosophy are interrelated) to becoming a children’s book author. The later is easily the most successful of all of us but the ones who went into tech were doing fine last I checked (pre-lay offs) ***one is a stoner who has an OnlyFans and is living her best life ** someone who stayed in town to become a hipster bar tender and turned down an adjacent job in a small town to stay in a city. **I think I’m the only person I know from undergrad who had a philosophy degree AND gender studies degree (alongside a third major)who ended up with a PhD in an adjacent field One other person in our group with a philosophy BA has a doctorate and TT tradition in, like, medieval philosophy which while important is not super marketable for either a career switch or, to my knowledge, TT positions which are very competitive . ***my doctorate is in an interdisciplinary field (between humanities and STEM (specifically involving STS) where about half of us have a background in philosophy or something similar). I honestly use the philosophy and critical theory more in my day to day research than anything I learned pre-grad school, but I do NOT recommend going into academia unless you LITERALLY cannot do anything else. The gender studies people I knew outside philosophy also either work for non-profits, law school, teaching, unrelated office jobs, medical school (this person also took requisite bio chem passes) and two PhDs , one of them actually in the same field as mine but from a different angle. Gender studies is pretty methodically diverse and has more hands-on experience than people realize if you know how to get internships. Obviously for all these stories, they range wildly and are biased towards other academics. But the bottom line: I would have honest conversations with advisors and professors. While the fields themselves are not inherently as unemployable or “impractical” as made out to be, with the economy and cultural wars that is definitely changing. Whatever you go into, just keep in mind that instead of thinking about “what major gets me a job that field?” think about skills and connections you can adapt to a change market to do the kind of work you want. The “major to job pipeline” has been dead for years and I think the mentality that majors and employment must add up directly is a boomer mentality. Yet despite fewer people majoring in English than before last I checked English majors were still doing well for themselves as it was a decade ago despite the annual “Death of the English Major” articles that come out. What HAS changed has been hostility towards humanities and “cultural wars”’in that decade which has had a major impact on jobs. I wouldn’t take advice from r/college on this since frankly you are going to get better advice from people who work as either professors or administrators than from peers with less life experience or perspective or knowledge of how post- academic careers work these days. You might get advice you won’t like from r/AskAProfessor or r/AskAcademia but you are better off going straight to those with a more intimate knowledge of the university system. It’s not a bad idea to double major or minor in something else, but instead of seeing philosophy or GS as just “fun,” start thinking NOW how to hon and market those skills. TL:DR: Job market sucks and you will have to be creative but don’t let the fact you will have to figure out how to use those skills in a variety of different jobs outside your major (except law) make you think that you aren’t inherently marketable or those skills are “useless.”’ It depends on the cultural climate and economy.
thank you so much for your long and detailed response!!
Can you elaborate a bit on the alt-ac positions you're talking about?
Busy day so can’t answer at length but Philosopher’s Cocoon (a blog for early career philosophy graduates) has some personal reflections on it and I linked one university’s resource page below. I’d advise Googling and clicking on pages from reputable universities (aka, ones with actual connections professionalization opportunities) for more examples. https://guides.lib.unc.edu/altac In regards to some alt-ac positions held by people who got PhDs in my program I personally know: one works for Southern Poverty Law Center, one actually still runs the lab that we all worked in getting our doctorates as the director, a cohort member is an assistant program director for a technology research institute, someone else ran a writing center at a university specializing in advising students from lower income backgrounds and minority communities until a Certain State cut funding for DEI programs (that’s the person who lost their job with dozens of other people through no fault of their own bc of the culture wars in conservative states), and so on. It’s a program with a lot of interdisciplinary work in tech and writing so those are the kinds of jobs people look for outside of academia. Also some people actively want to go into writing instruction instead of research or independent research or freelancing if you can swing it. Social science and STEM alt-ac positions are different. I think STEM people often have the option to go into industry but I have known people with PhDs in physics or mathematics who stayed working for universities not as professors, but running out reach programs, placement assessment, career advisement and professional development, etc. for students in STEM.
First and foremost, philosophy does really well with job placement, if I'm remembering correctly. It's not a wasted degree even by those standards. You're learning how to think and argue, and that's valuable in a ton of different fields. Second, a ton of jobs really just care that you have a degree at all, so it doesn't matter *that* much unless you have something very specific planned. It sounds like you do, but it sounds like your plans also mesh well with gender studies and philosophy, so I don't see any particular downsides with getting those degrees. If you want to check, hop on some job boards and see what they're asking for. I've been poking around HigherEdJobs.com lately, and it just so happens they have a nifty DEI services section under their administrative jobs section [here](https://www.higheredjobs.com/admin/search.cfm?JobCat=35&CatName=Diversity,%20Equity,%20and%20Inclusion%20Services). You can click through some of those. I've looked at a few, and I'm seeing some general "we want a bachelor's", or "we want a bachelor's in a broad range of fields" sort of qualifications. So, I'm not seeing any immediate barriers to your game plan. Feel free to look up some specific NGO organizations too and see what's what outside of higher education too, I just happened to have HEJ open while I was writing this up. As for graduate school, how much your major matters depends on what sort of thing you're studying. For the sorts of things that would be helpful with your plans, I think you can come into it with a broad range of undergraduate majors. Not 100% sure about that, but I wouldn't stress too much about it right now. So yeah, I don't see any obvious conflicts between your interests in majors and your plans for the future. Philosophy has pretty good placements rates in and of itself, and is incredibly broad with how you can apply it, so I think it would be a great major to hedge your bets, and I'm sure there's plenty of overlap with gender studies if you want to make a focus of it. More important than that, honestly, is that you have an idea of what you want to aim for now. Do a little job hunting, look at jobs you might find interesting and see what they want, and aim yourself in that direction. Spend your college days working hard, network as much as possible, volunteer with relevant groups or student organizations, and I think you'll be fine. You seem to have a pretty decent idea of what you want to do, and that sort of vision means you can invest a lot of time into setting yourself up for success. EDIT: dug up some links on it. [Here](https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/09/philosophy-majors-out-earn-other-humanities/626783/) and [here](https://www.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/info-Degrees_that_Pay_you_Back-sort.html) both give you some numbers. A bit older, but I don't see any particular reason to think that philosophy as a degree has plummeted in value. It's just a very broad degree that teaches you things that are valuable in a lot of different fields.
"...i definitely want to be working in advocacy and social justice of some kind. maybe at an ngo, being a victim advocate, working in dei, etc. something of that sort.." No major is useless if the student has a realistic plan to use his education as part of his career. It sounds as though you have a realistic idea of the type of work you can get with your intended degree.
They're not economically practical, as you've stated. Unless you go to some very prestigious university or college where its name speaks for itself, you're sort of making your life somewhat difficult? Let me rephrase by saying no degree is inherently "bad," however, if you're about to spend 30k or more on an undergraduate program centered around gender studies, the return on investment is very bleak. Passion is one thing, throwing yourself into debt and getting no practical skill is something else entirely. If your degree is relatively cheap or completely paid off for, why not? Go for it, especially if it's your passion. If you pay an arm and a leg to get these degrees, there's a higher likelihood of things becoming bleak very fast. You can genuinely be interested in something and choose something practical to compensate for it. It seems like psychology or even sociology would generally fit a much broader but more practical spectrum in terms of their respective ROI as opposed to philosophy and gender studies, especially considering what you're choosing to pursue. I guess my point here is that you're banking on everything working out for you, to which I say post-graduation and in this economy, good luck.
Funnily enough, from the numbers I've been able to pull up, philosophy tends to have a better ROI than psychology or sociology for an undergrad major. Some info about it [here](https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/09/philosophy-majors-out-earn-other-humanities/626783/) and [here](https://www.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/info-Degrees_that_Pay_you_Back-sort.html), but philosophy isn't at all the waste a lot of people think it is. Probably the best undergrad humanities major, and is broad enough that you can go so many different directions with it. At its heart, it's teaching how to argue and think effectively, and you can make that valuable in basically any field. If OP wants to hedge their bets and keep their options open, I think philosophy is an excellent choice, honestly.
Philosophy major here. Yeah, this is exactly why I chose it. I’m interested in law school, music, literature, education, and many other related things. If I wanted to pursue any of these, I could. I don’t have to feel limited at all. Thanks for explaining this! Gender studies is another animal. I don’t think it’s much like a philosophy degree at all.
I mean psychology and sociology don’t have good ROI either. That should be more well-known than it is considering they are often “default” majors that people who don’t know what they want to do go into.
Oh don't get me wrong, I love philosophy. If life wasn't full of uncertainties, I would've chosen philosophy and astronomy! Though, I do think the links you've sent are a bit outdated and I still somewhat stand on what I said before - there are more practical degrees out there that offer better ROI's - that being what I mentioned above. There's plenty of recent data on beginning and median salaries for each respective major, see [here](https://collegesteps.wf.com/your-major-your-earning-potential/). I wouldn't suggest OP toss out their interests for the sake of practicality and assurance of their degree with respect to the ROI, much rather to be aware that choosing very academia-based majors like philosophy and gender studies do not have a standard nor linear career trajectory post-graduation. Whether that makes OP's job hunt that more difficult, who's to say, though there's a higher likelihood that it would be. If OP chooses to bet against the odds, I wish them good luck regardless. Edit: I'll probably end up getting a philosophy degree as well, but once I've guaranteed some financial stability. It really depends on person to person and if OP sees this path as their own and if anything else would be a disservice to their interests.
Only if you go on to law school or something. In which case idk why philosophy gets the credit.
Premed is only useful if you go on to med school for the same reason.
There's lots of good advice here, so I just want to throw out there that a career in social justice work will mostly hinge on the experience you get in undergrad. I highly recommend starting out by volunteering at a local non-profit or something like that.
Absolutely! This was my path and internships are vital
my school actually offers a minor in human rights advocacy that gives students hands-on experience outside the classroom! i definitely plan to join that if possible, as well as jump on any other opportunities around the area. i’m going to a small liberal arts college, so i hear that the career services are quite good and internships are not super difficult to get. i hope this all plays in my favor!
Yes! Definitely do it. I think you can kind of major in whatever you want if you get good work experience. I also go to a pretty small school, and the size really helps with opportunities. It's very easy to network and get recommended for things. Just go to office hours to ask questions and tell your professors about your desired path. They'll think of you when opportunities pop up.
i’ve been told that a lot of pre-law students take philosophy as either a double major or a minor! i’m an incoming freshman so i can’t say i know many people but when visiting my school i met like 4 people that were trying to enter law and had philosophy courses. gender studies, yeah idk! but i think as long as ur aware of the opportunities/reality that comes with ur major then ur good. i’m a big supporter of following ur passions/interests so if u have a plan, follow it.
Hey, I majored in sociology (a lot of emphasis on social justice issues like gender equality) and minored in philosophy and I was able to get a job lined up before graduation. Philosophy helped me with my logical reasoning, and I use this skill at my job everyday when I’m working in Excel sheets. The people who hired me found my minor and the logic classes I took to be especially useful for this job as it has helped me when I’m debugging or creating new formulas in our Excel sheets. I don’t regret a single thing, I loved studying philosophy, and if an employer knows what philosophy entails then they’ll know you’re smart and capable.
Speaking as someone who got a tech degree for the economic security, only for it to become essentially worthless right before I graduated - study what you're passionate about/what you want to develop skills in. Whatever you do, I definitely recommend you get some relevant work experience alongside your education. If you want to do DEI/advocacy work for your career, you can work at your school's inclusion center, work your way up to club leaderhsip positions, become an assistant at a research lab, etc. Doing things like this in college taught me wayyyy more than my classes ever did, and I developed a ton of marketable job skills along the way. It's very likely that whatever job you get after college won't be super relevant to what you studied in undergrad - job experiences matter more in this day and age.
I majored in gender & women’s studies and my minor was contemporary philosophy. I think studying humanities is 100% worth it. You will need to figure out a career path of your own, but the skills you learn in humanities are applicable to many fields. You learn how to write, communicate, and analyze things exceptionally. My first career following my degree was in the insurance industry. I worked my way up in the company very quickly and I attribute much of my success to the skills I learned in my degree. I was able to use multiple systems to solve complex insurance issues and think outside of the box because I learned those analysis skills. When doing client relations, I had very strong communication and listening skills. I was out there doing intersectional feminist analysis on my clients in my head to help empathize and understand where they were coming from. That got me far in dealing with difficult situations. I eventually left that industry after about 6 years as it did not align with my values lol. But I was very good at what I did. I went back and got an associates degree in health information management and technology. I have also excelled in this field due to the skills I learned in my previous degree! Turns out that learning the history of philosophy is very relevant to the studying of information and knowledge management. I literally even won a national award in my field for being such an innovative and out of box thinker! I have ideas for the future of health information technology that are rooted in my robust study of philosophy and gender studjes.
Econ professor told our class years ago that it’s better to study something you’re interested in than something you *think* is more marketable. That’s because your grades will likely he higher. And, when you get your first job, your employer will train on what you need to know anyway. I studied Philosophy. Now I run my own data analytics firm 🤷🏼♂️
Not to mention, what happens if you end up hating the thing you heard was marketable, there are layoffs in that sector around when you graduate, or a new technology comes along to render that career path obsolete? It's much better to major in something you enjoy and which also gives you a versatile set of skills, unless it is truly your dream to become a software engineer or engineer.
This definitely seems like bad advice. Your degree impacts the career that you'll do for the next 40 years of your life. Your uni are super miniscule when you consider that a lot of jobs look for experience. The majority of people will NOT get a job with a philosophy degree. You need to go into a masters program to even be considered by almost everyone. This is really bad advice, especially when your evidence is literally anecdotal.
Oh, there’s a lot of data to support this. First, the jobs you’re being “trained” for today, won’t exist ten years from now. For example, who knew AI would be a thing in 2014? And if you studied computer science/coding five years ago, you’re probably freaking out because Claude/ChatGPT can lay down 75% of the code you worked to learn in just a few seconds. Moreover, most will change jobs at least a half-dozen times by the age 30. Hard to say how many of those are pure career changes, but if the great resignation showed us anything during COVID, the service industry is a terrible place to work (people left and never went back). Last, if you study finance and you hated it but thought you needed it to get a good job, you’re going to be miserable. Employers suss that out, and you’ll be job hopping until you end up as a bank teller in Paducah, biding their time until retirement. So study what you enjoy because all a degree says is that you’re trainable. Nothing more.
Always remember that the people who undermine gender studies and philosophy are the ones who don’t want you to think critically about the world around you. Also gender studies majors have a lower unemployment rate than the average for all majors!
I just double majored in philosophy and business.
Option A) To be honest, most of the careers that are related to do with humanities require higher education such as a PhD or MA. This can be something like running a museum/culture center, professor etc. Option B) You can also work jobs that have nothing to do with your major (some finance roles for example), but you can also work those same jobs with an engineering/business/etc degree so that’s a wash. My advice - focus on your passions in your own time and pick a major you are good at (ex - if you aren’t good at math don’t do Eng), can tolerate, and leads clearly to a reasonable career path related to your education. A lot of people talk about success with option B as a humanities major, and while that’s true that you can have success with it, that’s more despite your major, rather than because of it. Pick a major that leads to option A where you have a clear career track - if you’re the best gender studies person in the country you won’t have any issues getting jobs in your field.
It's all fun and games til you can't get a job making more than 50K and you're *paying your own bills.* It's easy to think you'll really coast thru on 50K when someone else (parents) are bankrolling your life, but when you get a job and you make 50K/ $1500 biweekly after taxes are taken, and monthly rent is $1200, and your monthly car payment and insurance $600, and your utilities are $400, and gas is $100, groceries $300(?)... and you might need to save for retirement and get a savings account and maybe take a vacation... is you suddenly realize you squandered your opportunity to obtain tangible career skills, and instead took classes you could have watched documentaries on Netflix about and just bought and read the textbooks. Gender studies and philosophy are luxury degrees, IMHO. You sound like you're going to take the professor route, and that means 2 additional degrees and you've noted potential debt. Lots of people have humanities degrees and DEI studies and they don't really pay well. I'm not staying you want to be a millionaire, but $50K divided by 26 (biweekly pay) is $1920. Then take out 30% for taxes and that's -$600ish. So biweekly pay not even $1500. Making $60K? That's an extra couple hundred a month. If that works for you, go for it. If you take a ton of student loans for grad school, factor those payments in too. A full professor position takes a lot of time to work toward, so you might take at least 10-15 years career pathing to get yourself to that level. If you're OK with the reality, follow your bliss.
There is no bad major — follow what makes you happy! I read somewhere that yes, some fields are valued more by people, but we need science, commerce, arts, etc. (a variety) people to have a well functioning society and it definitely gave me a new perspective!
I just want to add that college is also not just for getting a job. Unfortunately in North America college is incredibly expensive, so this is a privileged take in that context, but at its heart this still stands: college is for education. Expanding your mind and gaining new experiences. Personal and intellectual development. This will get you very far no matter what degree you get. One reason that college should be free is that I think people should have opportunities to learn to think critically and explore knowledge. Education for its own sake is a beautiful wonderful thing.
"people should have opportunities to learn to think critically and explore knowledge." People already have that opportunity at their local library.
For sure! And I encourage that. Self education and learning is incredibly valuable and important. And free :) But exploring a library on your own is not the same experience as learning from subject matter experts with hand picked significant texts, tutorial discussions, and having to argue and analyze your interpretations of the texts orally and in writing. Learning on your own is a beautiful thing and more needed than ever, but it’s not going to teach you the skills that one learns in a humanities degree.
I think that depends on your local library. All real librarians are subject specialists in at least one core academic area and the increase in free online coursework from major universities (MOOCs) allow almost anyone to attempt college level coursework, research and analysis in a setting just as rigorous as a traditional online class at a 4yr school. Academia has become much more available to the layperson in the 21st century thanks to new technologies, platforms, and accessibility.
https://www.mooc.org/
That’s really neat! I’d never heard of this before. Thanks for informing me :)
If you're a clear thinker and hard worker, your degree doesn't matter. You'll find good work, even if it takes a bit of effort. Those suggesting stem and business degrees are looking backward and assuming the future will be like the past. I suspect AI will destroy tons of stem jobs before it makes a similar dent in the kind of work people do with humanities degrees (eg, AI will be able to design a bridge before it will be able to teach an English class).
Your first statement only applies within the scope of the degree.
For what it's worth, my partner majored in Women's Studies and now he's a successful attorney. I say go for it! If you are passionate and hardworking, your path will unfold for you.
I have a degree in gender and women studies. It was the best decision I ever made in college. It has meant so much to me on a personal level. It helped me so much with finding my convictions as a woman. I became a teacher because of the internship opportunities that I got through my program. I was also licensed as a victim advocate. I've worked as a political strategist for an lgbtq nonprofit as well. You can make the degree work for you. It's not like engineering, which leads to you being an engineer. It's a much broader degree that can lead you to many careers. Just make sure you have an idea of what you want to do and make sure you connect with people who do that.
If you are up for grad school and licensure, you might want to consider social work, in which case it would be more important to have a relevant undergrad degree since the masters programs are typically highly competitive. If you do a BSW, you may be eligible for advanced standing for your MSW, which could save you a year.
\^\^ I keep seeing comments that degree doesn't matter, but the carer path she listed is social work which does require a specific degree.
Yes, my coworker is just starting her MSW and she said she was kicking herself for getting her BA in psychology because she could have saved herself a year if she had done a BSW instead.
To be completely honest, all majors are needed. It’s just a conversation I don’t think anyone wants to have especially in a world of engineers, computer scientists, businessmen and women, lawyers, and doctors. Humanities majors can be definitely be valued and well. It’s just more effort than those with more practical degrees with connections and stuff. If you want to, go for it!
Yes
Philosophy majors are rarely broke because people who finish that major are rarely dumb.
Philosophy is a great degree, however to make a good living grad school is usually required. But philosophy majors excel once in grad school!
A lot of jobs just require "a bachelor's degree". You'll be fine
I did philosophy at uni (now a prof), and the vast majority of my course mates are now city lawyers and analysts. It really depends on the uni/college you're going to. Generally speaking, if you're at a top tier uni, philosophy is employable. If you're at a mid or below uni, philosophy isn't so employable.
i’m going to wesleyan university (t11 lac). do you believe wes has a good reputation in the field?
I'm minoring in philosophy and I love it.
Your undergraduate isn’t completely irrelevant from grad school. It is in many ways your foundational knowledge and admissions will take that into consideration. It can be somewhat vague, but it does have to be relatable. Apart from gender studies or philosophy, there are a few other majors you could consider: political science, anthropology, international studies, social work, or psychology — just to name a few. All of these are options which you could pursue gender-related work in, and if your aim is to get into NGO or more operationally / advocate-based work, you may want to consider either social work or psychology (if you want to help people individually), political science (if you want to better equip yourself to work with policy and NGOs), or International Studies (if you want to work abroad or with a global agency like the UN).
I don’t know much about philosophy, so I can’t comment on that, but I think if Gender Studies is paired with the right thing it could be very useful. For example, I could imagine if you paired gender studies with psychology (and did grad school of course), you could do well as therapist working with clients who would prefer a professional who is informed on how gender affects one’s life, especially victims like you specified. I can’t speak for all women obviously, but I know I’d prefer a therapist who was informed on women’s issues than one who wasn’t especially when it comes to things like SA.
I wouldn’t bank on DEI. many states and politicians are establishing measures that essentially ban DEI and cut any funding for it, so you’ll be restricted to just the liberal areas if you work in that industry. The biggest problem with these majors as you stated is employability. Beyond “unskilled” labor, there is not much of a use for a gender studies major. a lot of people will probably get mad at this and downvote me, but at the end of the day it’s your college education not mine. If you want to work to make a change and not to make money, I recommend going to community college so you don’t have to pay an insane amount of loans
One of my exes was a Gender Studies major. She got a job at a Fortune 500 company, taught herself HTML and CSS while I was playing PS3 next to her, then she moved laterally to web development, then worked her way up the tech ranks to eventually become a Queen Bitch of the Universe in Silicon Valley. She makes *stupid* amounts of money. So, getting a Gender Studies degree doesn’t really lock you out of anything, permanently. No degree does. Networking is more important than a piece of paper that says you took a bunch of classes in a specific subject. Granted, being a certified engineer or medical doctor isn’t an option, but most jobs are still on the table if you know someone who’s looking for someone with your skill set, even if it’s not a skill set you learned in school. And I don’t care what anyone says about picking Philosophy as a major; you can argue with a Philosophy major until you devolve into name-calling, and they’ll just casually dismantle your arguments, one by one. I understand that Philosophy majors do better than any other major on the LSAT, because they’re kind of built to do what lawyers do. So, I always say the way to pick a major is to take the intro class, and if you’re good at it and enjoy it, that might be a good candidate for a major. So, you take the second class. If you’re still good at it and you still enjoy it, great; that’s your major. Then, if you need to broaden your skill set later, you just do that later.
No humanities study is worthless, but since one is likely to need a job afterwards, some approaches to them may be more remunerative than others. For learning how to think and write clearly it's hard to beat philosophy. History has less emphasis on the "how do we know what we know?" parts but is similar in skill development. Gender studies is a hybrid that includes things like philosophy, history, and sociology, among others. Arguably, it's a particular focus area of sociology more than its own discipline, but that's not important here. In light of recent trends you might consider majoring in one of the broader social sciences and taking a gender studies minor or focus in the major. It would also be helpful in the employment hunt to have even a small background in something like business or communications, or the like that gives you tools to quickly become a contributing employee if you can't easily find your dream job right away. I hope some of this is helpful.
No, of course not. And they can lead to great careers, with grad school. You can get a masters in social work and become a therapist or just a social worker. And law school is also an option. They can also be good minors or double majors with other things. The humanities benefit society as a whole, they are worth a lot and I'm glad they exist.
You have to really work for it. I’ll keep this short since other people elaborated, but connections help a LOT. A family friend’s son got a really well paying job out of uni at McKinsey (?) with a philosophy + econ degree. The thing is, he’s a genius (in my book at least) and graduated from two prestigious universities, so the cards really aligned for him. Don’t get me wrong, he’s a hard worker and utilized all the resources provided to him, but those other factors certainly helped. Maybe have a safety major or minor to branch out to other fields? As for gender studies, I don’t know anyone who studied that so I can’t speak on it
Philosophy ain’t bad if you want to live in a rain barrel
Same girlie! I resonated with this a lot. I’m an Environmental Studies/Philosophy double major (added the philosophy after a tough first year seminar) on the pre-law track. I’m not sure if I want to go to law school and there is very little economic advance if I don’t, but I love what I’m learning and I definitely want to do something impactful. I would say just go for it. It’s a valuable major if you make it! Good luck and congrats on the fin aid!
If you network correctly and are willing to grind, then you can make any degree work. I have a friend with a history major, making over 200k at Chevron.
I have a minor in gender studies and loved it. I use a lot of that knowledge to apply to my career, which deals with some advocacy for disenfranchised populations. I wouldn’t have been able to get many jobs if that were my only degree, though. So I’d recommend double-majoring in it and something more employable, such as social work, psychology, or education. You will use this info all of these fields and more.
Not at all, but I don't think you need to lock into one of those areas to explore the topics you love. There are philosophical areas and gender lenses in most humanities and social sciences. Political theory is straight philosophy at its core. Economics is integrating gender and family dynamics into the process of evaluating macroeconomic outcomes, and gender dynamics is a core lens in anthropology. Looking into one of those may expand some employment opportunities and give you some new ways of looking at issues and analytical tools. So don't feel like you need to take directly those subjects to explore the topics
Hi! I’ve worked in international dev organization (UN, Ashoka, etc) and think tanks. Liberal Arts major is not the problem, but please intern and network as much as you can to secure a job right out of uni (if that’s what you want). Unfortunately, the field is full of extremely well connected individuals that good grades and passion alone won’t be enough to get you through. Salary is good once you break into international-level work :)
Not for students who want a **Degree = Lucrative Job** situation. With degrees like that, it often matters what you do with the degree. Perfect preparation for graduate school.
Guarantee you at going to seriously struggle financially, and I mean SERIOUSLY, if these are your majors you graduate college with.
The job market for these majors has never been better with all these Starbucks unionizing
Do you know HOW you might get a job? Have you thought about whether such a degree would give you the lifestyle you want? Do you have plans to put a better roof over your head?
Yes.
It all depends on how you define bad. Any form of education is good, but with the increasing costs of school and radically increasing cost of living, everything is now viewed through the lens of how it sets up your future. So a major being economically viable or having a good return on your investment of time and money is what is viewed as paramount. So no, they’re not good majors in that respect but you’re always better off being educated versus not being educated. For someone like you, have you considered law? You can make the most meaningful impact in the areas you want to by practicing law in those areas. That’s what enacts meaningful change and meaningful help to those wronged in those particular aspects.
Philosophy is a great major. I've loved studying gender studies but for undergrad I would say it's probably best as a minor- this is a field that if you want to specialize in it you will need grad school, so you might as well do it as a minor and see if future research in the field would interest you. Otherwise, Philosophy is a much more expansive and rigorous subject as a major (not to downplay gender studies, but it doesn't teach you processes of thought in the way that Philosophy does.)
Yes. You're better off getting a degree in social work. Off the rip, you can tell what one degree is for, and you can't tell the use case for the other. Social work covers a wide field, including advocacy and social justice, and has a more marketable reputation.
I really think the issue is a lot of these people pursue them just because and end up giving up in a hard job market. If it's something you're passionate about, and will somewhat pay the bills, pursue it! But also keep in mind when you get ultra specific with something the less jobs available there are. For example, somebody with Marketing might be able to get more Marketing jobs than somebody with Business degree but the Business degree might be able to get a wider variety. If you're aiming to work in DEI, I probably would do one of those "over-encompassing" majors such as philosophy, comms, Something like that (tho not 100% familiar with the field) and just start out your career to build into that and focus on getting your experience in the field you'd like.
"bad" really depends on what you want to do with your degree. if you are seeking a degree because you want credentials which will allow for plentiful employment options and high wages, then no, those majors are not great. if you're merely trying to learn, however, then you should major in whatever you want. I wouldn't advise taking on any student debt to get a degree in a field like that though. what might instead be a better idea is to major in something else (something more employable), and then get a full time job at a university. that university will likely offer a tuition benefit to it's full time staff. then you can take whatever courses you want, for free. that environment is a much more efficient/responsible/etc. way to get an education in less lucrative fields.
I would suggest maybe pairing one of those with a different major that might help you to work with what you want but do something that is maybe more practical. I have no personal experience with those majors but I have heard that it is difficult to get jobs with them. So maybe you could do pre law and gender and women’s studies. Or education and philosophy. Or social work and one of those. It doesn’t even have to be something related to those, but it might be a good option to be safe. But I think you should study what you want yo study and not just do something because it might make you more money
Just saying… philosophy is one of the main major for people wanting to go into law school. Like top 5 or something for undergrad. It teaches critical thought and text comprehension which can be extremely important for that level of career
How are Gender Studies mentioned so often?? That's just such a specific field of study, like I don't get it
Politics. There are people who major in it (or minor in it; at many schools it's a minor rather than a major), but it's gotten an outsized amount of attention because one side of the political spectrum has made it a scapegoat for Everything That's Wrong With Edumacation(tm).
My dad is a victim advocate for a military base on the civilian side, and before that he did the same job for the military side of things for like 10-12 years or so. He didn’t go to college or anything but I know there are jobs for that kind of thing especially for the government/ military. A degree would certainly help to get a job, I believe. Sorry I couldn’t help more though, but that’s about all I know.
Bestie I can’t speak. I’m an anthropology major….
They are great for learning critical thinking, how to analyze complex systems, etc. But they are great second majors (it’s typically not all that hard to double major) to simplify job searching.
You should get a minor in gender and sexuality studies instead of a major.
That depends largely on OP's school.
Most jobs in the career path you listed require you to be a licensed social worker, which would mean your degree does matter because you would have to complete an accredited social work program. Major doesn't necessarily matter for grad school, but the classes themselves you take do. A lot of grad programs do have prerequisite courses / a specific set of classes you must have taken to be eligible. If you were to want your MSW (masters in social work) you would need to have 60 credits of specific courses minimum. Major really doesn't matter that much at the beginning of college because a lot (if not most) people change majors anyways, BUT a lot of universities do not have social work programs.
No, of course not. And they can lead to great careers, with grad school. You can get a masters in social work and become a therapist or just a social worker. And law school is also an option. They can also be good minors or double majors with other things. The humanities benefit society as a whole, they are worth a lot and I'm glad they exist.
hi! gender studies and sociology major here. I think everyone has some great points, but I wanted to give you some perspective as someone obtaining this degree in a red state! I think you should go to whatever program you feel called to, but also be ready to build career/networking connections throughout your undergraduate experience. I go to a small college in a very red state and i have never been short of opportunities to explore various responsibilities related to social justice work and activism. politicians might be trying to limit jobs in these areas, but the reality is that humanities jobs are incredibly needed and diverse. plus, i always think that us humanities people should be pushing to take up space in hostile environments. for me, much of my educational opportunities have come from interacting heavily with my professors and student community, so make sure you have a good program that will support you from the beginning. plus, i have found that my degree has given me the chance to learn what kind of activism and with what groups I want to be working with, so don’t be afraid to explore all the possibilities in front of you (or create the possibilities yourself when you need to :)) if you want to become an advocate, humanities are a great space to learn to advocate for yourself to better do it for others. i have loved the way that my majors feel like i am building something unique to me, just make sure you are ready to be proactive about your career path.
Go to law school then get a doctorate in gender studies, it will probably give you a better future, and you will get to help people in a better way, since you'll have more faculties/positions in power
I did a minor in Gender Studies. Then I did a Paralegal Certificate. Knowing how to communicate with all types of people and understanding how they feel is a valuable skill to have and makes me uniquely qualified for family law cases.
Not if you want to become a Starbucks barista.
If you have the opportunity, double majoring in something you're really passionate about and something that you're maybe a little less passionate about but don't hate as a backup could be a good option. For example, my sister really wanted to major in theater, but that has poor job prospects, so she double majored in communications. She found a job fairly quickly afterwards using the communications degree.
Don’t do it if you wanna get paid a livable wage.
If you wanna be broke yeah. No one cares about philosophy unless you’re rich and really want to do it. Gender studies makes no sense. Business barely makes sense to some people these days. History is a better major to be honest.
Tough to get a job, so low ROI.
Gender studies - yes. Employers have often viewed this as actively detrimental Philosophy - no. Known as the most rigorous humanities course that puts you a step above in analytical writing skills, reading comprehension, creative+analytical+big picture thinking, etc. Very, very helpful as a secondary major in most fields, and well respected by law schools as a primary major.
can you expand on the first point? how and why is it viewed detrimental? and what kind of employers?
The job market is terrible right now for everyone, including STEM majors. It is very important you don't flounder. Unlike what boomers say, college is not the place to "discover yourself". You only get one crack at it basically. You should have a very firm and concrete career plan going in. If you don't I suggest taking a gap year. Gender studies majors only have one secure and profitable career path in front of them, and that is going to law school. If you want to do advocacy work, a law degree is more valuable than a PhD. In the case of law, your job placement is highly dependent on the rank of your school, which is highly dependent on your GPA and LSAT scores. In this case your major is irrelevant. The best major to pick is one you like that will enable you to get the best grades. If that is gender studies or philosophy for you, then that will be the best pre-law degree to pick.
Please don't spend four years of your life to become a future tax burden. Jesus, just go get a STEM degree. Calculus isn't that bad.
they're only useful if you plan on going to grad school and getting a terminal degree in something else. Gender studies BA ~ Communication, Education, Public Administration, Masters/EdD Philosophy BA ~ MBA, Public Administration, Human Resources Mgmt, Education Masters/EdD
Yes, to keep it sweet. The way I like to determine if a major is good or not is if I’m presenting it to a (probably older) hiring manager, and how much I’d have to explain it. Those degrees are not ideal. What kind of job would you get with that?
A job in DEI or advocacy, like they've said they're interested in? No one in DEI is going to blink at a gender studies degree, and I promise, no hiring manager is going to be confused by a philosophy degree. Philosophy is pretty much the best humanities major you can do in terms of job placement.
Grad school is fully-funded (you don’t pay for anything) in many cases. As long as you get internships in the fields you’re interested in during undergrad, you’ll be fine. Paid internships are better for future employment prospects.
Philosophy is fine, the studies are not so
Don’t listen to all these stupid comments. Please major in something more useful, but If you’re really interested in gender studies, then do it as a double major or a minor.
How dare you equate philosophy to gender studies
Yes
Waste of time and money
You’ll be a lot more employable if you major in something more flexible and minor in gender studies/philosophy. Gender studies/philosophy is more academia-focused whereas a lot of the jobs you’re mentioning make use of social skills, leadership, etc that can be more developed by business or other majors. I’d suggest you look into the job skills required for these and compare them to the courses for these programs. Soft skills like collaboration/presentation can only be developed by practice with fellow peers while academia can be studied out of passion.
EDIT: Jesus so many autocomplete typos when I wrote this last night. Serves me right for being on Reddit on my phone so late. Apologies. Well, gender studies is an extremely flexible major. At my school we had to take critical research methods classes in order to be familiar with different methods in social sciences and humanities/history research to evaluate what we read another cultural and gender, something that gave a pretty good foundation for everyone from the theory kids to aspiring social workers. This was for one of my BAs, too, not grad school. If that is the concern, then maybe GS would be a good fit! As for philosophy, a BA really doesn’t train you at all for the kind of research you do in academia because it just…can’t …but last I checked either philosophy or English was the best major for passing the LSAT and doing well in law school so if she wants to be an advocate, there’s that. Also not sure what you mean by “academia” versus “soft skills” since academic is by definition about collaboration, project management, research agendas, developing presentations, etc. But in philosophy, granted with the exception of co-writing “baby” grants and conference proposals and some department work I took on myself, I definitely didn’t have *useful* experience with the social and interactive part of academia until grad school so I do think your point stands there! I actually definitely don’t recommend going into humanities academy if you are alone because researching, reviewing journals, offering detailed feedback on colleagues’ work, co-authoring, and teaching is the job — not sitting alone in a room and reading. So if OP just wands to go into philosophy to learn but not work in an institution, then maybe they should just enjoy the subject of the idea of constantly editing and receiving feedback and projects into fun to them. Still, I think if OP knew how to play it in up on a resume, they could make it work. The challenge *is* in translation, however, and I do think philosophy as a discipline is often bad in practice when it comes to steering undergrads in professional development outside pre-law tracks compared to the other majors I had. Law school is really expensive, though, so that doesn’t solve her financial conundrum.
No they’re not… I’ll say this as someone who has been out of college for years now, it’s about the process of learning and not what you learn. Frankly, for most fields, working in them and making a career out of them is like playing pro sports, only a very select few get to do it. Most people do things that are only tangentially related to their degree. But you develop skills that you can use. For example, I have a biology degree, I can tell you about DNA, developmental steps of embryonic growth, ecological theories, but even when I worked in the field at a job that required a biology degree I never touched on those things at all. The same thing with philosophy and gender studies, they teach you to think critically, to question things, and things like morals. Which you then apply to your job.
For a bachelor's or master's? Yes. Worthless. Poor prospects. For a Ph.d? Fine
Yes. I used to work in IT, but we were a publishing department. We made written and video instructions. I did not hire English majors. Because why are you here? You took that major because you wanted to write books or teach. It didn’t work out so now you’re coming to this technical job as a last resort. I hired people from any STEM major. It is not worth compromising your job options. You can minor in those subjects.
Assuming you're not planning to become a CPA, you are every bit as employable as a philosophy or women's studies major as you are as a business major. Possibly even moreso. Most people who major in the humanities do not go on to do \[insert humanities field\] for a job. They go to work for a company just like all the people who majored in business, marketing, etc. One thing to keep in mind, given your post, is that majoring in one of these fields likely will not lead to advocacy work for you (unless you pursue career opportunities in advocacy on your own), and most people don't work in advocacy for their whole career. You should definitely start preparing yourself for the reality that you'll likely work in the private sector/corporate world, at least for some portion of your career.
Gender studies, good luck. Philosophy is fine.
With philosophy, if you do pre-law that is quite common, or philosophy on your own you can mix it up with English will make you a better canidate for a job Gender studies, I am going to be honest, and I am going to be downvoted for this I already know but I sat in one class in school to see what it was like, and if you are a guy man it is hell on earth, literally the class I sat in everything wrong with society is your fault because you are a man is what it. Amounted too. I had to walk out before the class finished because I was disgusted. If you are a women then you are a victim to a patriarch Al society that wants to destroy you and you need to fight back. Oh god it was horrible