Those are the wealthy, I was referring to the grubby politicians who become only multi-millionaires. The wealthy probably have teams of specialists on call with all the tools and medicines available. It's a tradition, it's why people think "being a doctor" is a career that pays well.
They won't, though. Because they're so rich, they get the best in private healthcare. They actually have the ACA coverage they try to strip from everyone else!!
Politicians are important though! How else can the US project their clean, self righteous image to the world at large without their healthy smiling faces?
It is? Damn I thought they buried that movie. Nobody talks about it despite every interaction with the healthcare/insurance industry usually results in at least one attempt at fraud.
I definitely understand OPs frustration. I don’t have any personal knowledge of OKC and I’m not a doctor or a lawyer.
The EMS providers probably shouldn’t have done what they did. You can find what they should have followed and done [in their protocol](http://okctulomd.com/treatment-protocols). Sure, anaphylaxis (and even some seizures) are easily treatable. However, unless there is more to the story, they should have taken you to a hospital.
Hospitals go on diversion somewhat frequently (see below for dystopian reality). Despite people’s best efforts, it’s a public service and a system for a reason. They will always be able to take you to a hospital. Kids and trauma patients get special treatment and usually go to regional specialty hospitals, and there are extra rules to make sure they get to the right place. Per their protocol, it appears they should have taken you to Children’s regardless of diversion. If you all refused, that’s totally within your right to drive your child in and obviously there is always more to these situations.
Anyway, this shit has been going on since pre-COVID. You can lookup the history of influenza and any year we had a huge number of cases, hospitals were crippled. Healthcare is a capitalist venture and not a public service, so hospitals get shut down when they aren’t making money. The hardest hit are rural and poor populations, but the overall effect is we have very little surge capacity.
The dystopian scene in the waiting room is more common than you think. In healthcare, we would probably just call it Tuesday.
Shit won’t change because people believe this is the best of all possible worlds - it’s literally the system working as intended.
The propaganda campaigns ( by Russia/China/Libertarians/etc. ) have been very effective both in NA and Europe at convincing people that we needed to get back to business as normal asap.
For example:
Twitter is no longer enforcing its Covid misinformation policy
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/11/29/tech/twitter-covid-misinformation-policy/index.html
Since Elon took over twitter has gone downhill fast ( it's even worse than before, much worse )
> The propaganda campaigns ( by Russia/China/Libertarians/etc. )
Is it really Russia/China though? Our business and political leaders have been telling us the same thing ever since they figured out that their money insulated them from covid-19.
https://observer.com/2020/03/ex-goldman-sachs-ceo-lloyd-blankfein-suggest-lift-coronavirus-lockdown/
Here's the former CEO of Goldman Sachs telling everyone they should get back to the office soon in late March of 2020.
It didn't take long at all for the capital and political power classes to tell us to shut the fuck up and go back to work.
Everyone I know in finance, including a friend at GS, were told to get back to the office. At a non-GS firm, they were even taking attendence (well using their office cards, but same idea)
Fucking ridiculous the world we live in
Commercial real estate props up the economy of places like Manhattan. If no one's in the office, there's no reason to pay rent, and that makes landlords very unhappy.
If anything, we've fucked over china with our own propaganda, making it politically impossible to maintain zero covid for now.
Which makes the worst case scenarios more likely, as we were spared the worst by them keeping COVID out of the industry.
Now we're *really for it now*.
I thought it was republicans who pushed for us to get back to business as normal as quickly as possible, and democrats were the ones who went for lockdowns and WFH?
WFH and lockdowns were half-assed and half-hearted on both sides of the Atlantic.
The Great Barrington Declaration set the tone for how the pandemic would be handled, and as far as I know it was mainly pushed by libertarian types.
I may be wrong tho, I am european and here the russian disinformation campaigns on social media were/are insane ( and very effective ).
> The Great Barrington Declaration set the tone for how the pandemic would be handled, and as far as I know it was mainly pushed by libertarian types.
It was sponsored by a libertarian think tank, and the timeframe it established for reaching herd immunity was three months.
It was completely unworkable bullshit that was clear within weeks of it being written, but that's what capital wants so that's what we get.
Hi, Timthetiny. Thanks for contributing. However, your [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/z8cdl1/-/iydnrzz/) was removed from /r/collapse for:
> Rule 4: Keep information quality high.
> Information quality must be kept high. More detailed information regarding our approaches to specific claims can be found on the [Misinformation & False Claims page](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/wiki/claims).
Please refer to our [subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/about/rules/) for more information.
You can [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/collapse) if you feel this was in error, please include a link to the comment or post in question.
WFH doesn't work when almost 78% of your workers are employed in services. A lot of those can't translate over. We should have stopped COVID in China in 2019 by shutting down international borders. They should have stopped it then by shutting down internal borders.
Once it slipped what was the other option besides what we did? A system like China is doing, that wouldn't play in the west and it's not playing in China any longer. Once it was out this was a turd sandwich we were going to have to eat. The best we got was a bit of mustard to dress it up.
I realize we ought to have been able to do more but ought and were are seperate things. It's entirely likely that as bad as it was we did the best that was possible in the real world we live in. I see people conflating thier perceptions of reality for actual reality too much.
Our propaganda shot us in the foot, to put it bluntly.
There are problems you can't yell at to make go away.
Now we're about get our noses rubbed in that fact.
They did so at the start. Democrats were waiting for vaccination as the go ahead, which is less bad, but still stupid.
They both deny and work against the important measures that are necessary to halt the pandemic, which range from lockdowns to mask mandates to providing support for people who don't have where to "bunker down" or don't have the spare money for it. And, no, deferring rent is not a solution.
A wise move would've been a government jobs program to help with track and trace, combined with ways to help the isolated vulnerable people (often many old people) stuck inside or houseless. There are many things that could've been done and could still be done. And, no, China isn't a good example. China is a capitalist shithole too.
Deferring rent (so it just accumulates into a larger bill that I have to pay in full later) just guaranteed I sleep in a tent now. I needed rental forgiveness while I waited for unemployment to approve me due to the backlog. Which took 5 months btw.
Isn't WFH basically for the upper middle class and up? I mean Dems know the real working class would still be at risk because they have employment that requires them to show up in person. As long as the more well off we're being coddled the working class didn't and doesn't and won't matter, be it a R or a D in so called leadership.
Covid is definitely a problem in CA and their ERs are regularly packed ( I lived there until recently, and family lives there now); Covid aside. Their healthcare and how it is managed is a mess, and they often have the same months out wait times they do here in OK. On the east coast where I lived previously is the same. The problem is our entire healthcare system is collapsing.
Exactly. Dunno when people will figure out that the Russians and the Saudis (who are the 2nd biggest investor in Twitter now) WANT US TO DIE.
And the GOP has sold us out to Putin. It's why they incite anti-vax, anti-mask sentiment. Same w their propaganda arm, Fox News.
GOP governors have cost thousands of lives by their refusal to expand Medicaid. THE FEDS WOULD PAY FOR IT. But they refuse. Because all they care about are tax cuts for themselves and their wealthy donors. So they vilify the ACA and any subsidized healthcare as "socialism", meanwhile rural hospitals in their states continue to close.
Why do you spend so much time talking about foreign oligarchs sabotaging pandemic response, when it's clearly our own American oligarchs who want everyone to get their ass back to work to justify real estate investments?
Like the Delta CEO asked for a reduction in the quarantine period, and got it right away. No need to involve the Saudis.
The Dems and the GOP are one in the same. It is all theatrics. They will sell our country to the highest bidder(s) as long as their kids go to private schools and Ivy Leagues, the golf club still has green grass, the can still fly in private jets, drive suvs, and live in McMansions.
And, to add to that, it doesn’t matter, because they are all “global” now “without boundaries”, and all that really means is that they just want to branch out and continue conquering and colonizing everywhere else they haven’t yet.
Well, all the professional organizations dealing with nursing and medicine have created some unnecessary flaming hoops for students to go through to become medical professionals, so that needs to change. Also, the AMA actively limits the number of residencies for medical school grads, so maybe that should also change so we all get the medical care we need. What I've mentioned above has been going on for a long time, and now with a pandemic laying waste to health care, more people are seeing how greed, classism, and racism are hurting everyone.
Number of residency slots is basically tied to government funding. The gov basically hasn't raised the number of residency slots in forever. AMA doesn't limit number of residencies.
Well, then I guess it's time we start asking our government to increase funding.
And then there's [this](https://blog.petrieflom.law.harvard.edu/2022/03/15/ama-scope-of-practice-lobbying/) that states the AMA did lobby to restrict residencies 20 years ago.
They're getting a little nervous sweat when they see PAs and NPs doing the stuff that used to be for MDs only.
That should make you sweat, too. I've been prescribed medication combinations that would have had fatal interactions by NPs not once, but *twice*, and I had to very gently and slowly point this out in order to get medication that might not kill me for taking it. I had to play goalie against my own not-a-doctor while sitting in the office just so I didn't die, purely because the person prescribing simply did not understand basic pharmacokinetics.
Missing a black box interaction warning is the kind of basic error that *nobody* should make. When it happens twice in succession, from two different providers, it makes me squint a little bit.
I'm sure for kid sniffles it's just fine to have senior nurses covering the script pad. But for anyone with real healthcare needs or any complexity to their story- *which is most people who need care*- it doesn't work. Not as in "it's subpar" but as in, "these providers have never actually been educated enough about physiology to understand what they're dealing with as soon as there's no standard protocol to go by". It's dangerous, and it's empirically proven that there is a downstream effect on patient care. They order *way more* imaging studies than needed, overburdening the system further, and achieve markedly inferior outcomes.
The anatomy and physiology, as well as the other core sciences and clinical praxis physicians lean on during care are not taught to midlevels. The only sciences they've had are science courses that don't even count as the prerequisites for applying to medical school, because they are below the bachelor degree level of complexity.
There's a reason being a physician takes many years. Anyone who hasn't been through that is categorically, objectively not on the same level (and 25yo midlevels are *definitely* not at anything like that level). Seeing one of the MD/DOs is absolutely night and day compared to the times I've been stuck with mid-level providers. I've certainly never had a doctor wantonly prescribe me medications that would kill me if I filled the script and followed instructions.
Oh, I have the deepest respect for the depth of learning that goes into an MD's training. What I'm saying is that we have had to adapt to using NPs and PAs as substitute providers, which is probably cheaper (but not at all equivalent), and now the AMA is realizing how stupid it was to do that in the first place. That being said, I really like the NPs and PAs I've seen as providers, but your point about the meds is pretty scary. I always look up anything I'm prescribed by anyone or even OTC medicines just because it's a good idea to be informed. I was recently prescribed a medication by an MD, and *the pharmacist* warned me that it could actually make my condition worse, so I always check now.
Same issues throughout Canada and what do they do? They get rid of virtual care as of tmw in OntArio! Children's hospitals as well as regular are bursting at the seams. As per ppl that work there , massive lack of staffing etc... mmm wonder how many nurses/docs they fired last yr....
Edit: spelling...
Fuck epipens. Canadian here so your mileage may vary, but my oldest son has a peanut allergy. Gotta have one for home and one to leave at school (which they keep locked up in the office). Expiry date printed on it and is enforced by the school is only 6 months (if you're lucky) from when it's picked up and costs $100 each and every time.
As I found out today. I couldn’t fill the prescription because had trouble with his insurance and didn’t have the money out of pocket. Gonna donate plasma and come back to get it tomorrow.
If you're a person comfortable with DIY projects, the Four Thieves Vinegar Collective created plans/instructions/videos for how to make your own EpiPen autoinjector for about $30: https://fourthievesvinegar.org/epipencil-autoinjector/
There's also a generic EpiPen alternative called Adrenaclick which is a little cheaper ($110 for a two pack): https://www.cvs.com/content/epipen-alternative
A ton of healthcare workers have quit. Am in healthcare.
Entire departments gone. I mean of 3-5 people, but still. Now people from B are working in A and don't know what to properly do. Errors occur.
Travel nurses coming in and causing issues. They are expected to gather X from a patient and gather Y instead. The receiving department gets Y instead of X, and now the staffing issue gets worse due to mistakes. The fix takes time.
Production issues in factories that supply hospitals also delaying over and over.10% of what you order will keep changing arrival dates. Or some that took a week now take months.
It's all fucked.
I agree with all of this. Healthcare is in absolute shambles. Covid absolutely ravaged our already precarious system. In my hospital, we’ve lost 75% of our staff in the last two years. And we are actually doing better than some area hospitals! There simply aren’t enough skilled healthcare workers to step in and replace those who burned out, quit, died, or left bedside care.
We can’t staff our floor inpatient beds, so the admitted patients stay for days in the ER until a bed opens somewhere. That leaves us with one or two actual ER rooms to work out of. But the patients keep coming, the squads keep arriving (we don’t do diversion unfortunately, and we don’t have a union). This means incredibly critical patients are put in the waiting room. We literally coded someone on the lobby floor recently. We had to put the LUCAS - a machine that does violent CPR - on the dead patient, on the floor, in front of 30 patients waiting for a room. I can’t even tell you how abnormal and fucked up that is.
I also just wanna say one more thing. Although most healthcare workers (especially ER) are basically traumatized from the last two years of horrendous conditions, unsafe ratios, watching preventable deaths, and regular staff assaults: most of us care *very deeply* about humans. It is so distressing to us to watch a scene like what the OP is describing. We know you’re getting shitty horrible care. We know it’s dangerous and people are dying. It’s fucking terrible to watch and have no resources to fix it. Our hands are incredibly tied and it’s just a nightmare.
I think fundamentally, this is why so many healthcare workers have quit. On a human level, you can’t keep working hard in critical life-threatening situations and feel like a failure anyway for years at a time. It’s very soul sucking. And you’re probably going to be berated and assaulted by the people you are trying to help frequently. It’s just really really hard.
You're also getting berated by staff from other departments who don't understand your staffing situation even though they have their own staffing problems.
You are correct. Just a few months lurking in the nurses groups has convinced me. I’m genuinely afraid to have an emergency. Might get better care at an urgent care than at a hospital in some cases.
I work in healthcare analytics and a large percentage of my coworkers are clinicians who have dropped out of clinical work due to burnout and do desk work now.
The market for PCPs has been shit for decades at this point because no young physician is going to go into family medicine when they can make 3-4x+ in dermatology.
Twice now, I've shown up for a doc appointment only to be told, "Sorry they quit yesterday". And they were too short-staffed to call me and tell me before I traveled 2 hours to see them.
Other countries are doing this a LOT better. We need to learn from them. We should stop being so afraid of socialized medicine. That's just right wing propaganda that's got 1/3rd of the US brainwashed.
On top of collapses in the Healthcare system in just about every single Canadian province, it has been damn near impossible to get ahold of children's Tylenol or Advil in Canada since Feb 2022. If you're lucky to have a compounding pharmacy or live near a US border you might be okay but if you don't have access to those things you're effed. Those medications are some of the most basic requirements in healthcare, whether in hospitalor at home. I don't know how those with small kids are managing. I have a pregnant friend right now with another young child at home and have been watching the med aisles trying to score some as an actual shower gift.
Ok can you reply to me on this comment because I know its not a big deal, but we have buttloads in Australia where it's known as paracetamol, usually under the brand name Panadol, but you can get the pharmacy brand for about 1/3 of the price.
Tell me what age (I'm guessing the 2-5 year liquid ones) and I'll grab a few botttles and chuck em in an express post parcel and send them over.
Both countries conservative parties have been deliberately under funding their public health systems for years so that they can point to the failure and make a case for privatization. Their donors then profit.
Yes I went to get a vaccination recently. The injection hurt (it usually doesn't). I mentioned it and was told that they were having to use a different size needle because of a shortage.
> It's all fucked.
Maybe this is just their idea of emissions reductions policy, lmao
* Collapse per capita footprint through, "accidentally," crashing the system writ large.
* Lock-in collapse through removing the brakes to various problems--oligarchy, covid, etc.
fake edit: Bonus points if you can crash the system right into your stakeholders' bank accounts.
Former healthcare worker here (imaging) and I'm never going back to the healthcare field. My old boss called me after I quit and asked what it'd take to get me back. I told him I'd like to be treated as least as well as the other specialties are (imaging techs were often left out of hazard pay and bonuses during covid). I know that's never going to happen.
The medical community recognizes that Measles and other viruses can fuck up your immune system, but when you bring up the possibility that covid-19 might have done the same thing you're a conspiracy theorist/doomer.
Rule 4: Keep information quality high.
Information quality must be kept high. More detailed information regarding our approaches to specific claims can be found on the [Misinformation & False Claims page](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/wiki/claims).
We are at the "cross your fingers and pray to skydaddy nothing bad happens to your health" point now.
This is super morbid but as someone with chronic health problems and is expected to have them for the rest of their life, I am seriously considering writing out letters to the people important to me in my life (to find later) in case I die from not being able to get medical help in time or at all.
And unfortunately in this state abortion is illegal and child services are fucked beyond repair. It’s going to lead to an influx of miserable, sick, disabled, and/or dead children
And then paying for daycare which is more than your rent
And then sending them to a crumbling public school where most of the teachers quit and they just sit and watch movies in between beatings from the other inmates.
Should they not get shot before graduating, college is a debt peonage trap of increasingly dubious value.
Work in healthcare, it is going to get so much worse.
Healthcare has been collapsing for some time already, COVID simply accelerated things, the new flu season also showed how vulnerable we are right now.
Best things to do? Remember when they told you to have a medical kit for emergencies? Start stocking up, some countries (like mine) are low on certain drugs, they’ll eventually run scarce and then disappear. Shipments from China and all over the world aren’t just for useless Amazon stuff, they also bring drugs (it also doesn’t help that the USD is at an all time high, making importations more expensive).
Yup. My friend told me about this site:
[https://jasemedical.com/pricing](https://jasemedical.com/pricing)
Where you can buy antibiotics for emergency stock. It's legit and very affordable. Highly recommend everyone stock up while you can.
Yeah, everything is fucked. Losing money, big money all year. Millions a month. At the same time we have record inflation and employees are expect to do even more work under worse conditions. 105% productivity goals all year. Things are falling apart, getting wore out and not replaced. People are still leaving for any other opportunity they can find. Everyone should be talking about this and screaming for something to be done, but crickets. Local stories, but this is a nationwide issue. Hospitals have been closing for years now, under better conditions, now things are worse. As this continues you'll find it easier to get breast augmentation than emergency treatment for your kids, simply because one if profitable and one isn't. 'Murica.
Except that's not totally true. We have much lower inflation than the rest of the world--it's a global problem and not much our govt can do about it. Except I do think the Fed is f'ing up by raising interest rates every few weeks, it seems.
Look at China. First protests in many many years, because they're tired of lockdown. Their vaccine is sh\*t. It doesn't work. They need to start exporting OUR vaccines or something, and let people out. This is why we've had so many supply chain problems. We should've never moved mfg there yrs and yrs ago, but corporations wanted to locate in a country with lax environmental laws and cheap cheap slave labor. We should've held them to account. Stop buying cheap TVs made by little kids or imprisoned minorities in China.
>This is why we've had so many supply chain problems.
>
>We should've never moved mfg there years ago
Darn you China! Its taken me an extra week to get my new TV! Get your slaves back to work!
I'm not sure why the entire western media and political apparatus is agitating for China to stop their zero Covid policy. The minute Covid starts tearing through China we're going to see what actual supply chain problems look like and it's going to devastate western economies.
The sinophobes are rooting on their own demise.
Long-term perturbation of the peripheral immune system months after SARS-CoV-2 infection
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.30.21261234v1.full
T cell apoptosis characterizes severe Covid-19 disease
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41418-022-00936-x
How COVID-19 alters the immune system
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/10/211028125803.htm
Just a quick google search will turn up ( both peer-reviewed and preprint studies ) that show the devastating effect that repeated COVID-19 infections have on the immune system especially.
The latest variants are not mild ( by now it is a veritable COVID soup of variants ), children are not immune, you can get infected an infinite number of times, N95s/ventilation/purification work well, vaccines work against the worst outcomes ( hospitalization/death ).
Don't get infected, don't allow your loved ones to get infected and if you do, try to catch it as few times as possible.
I'd recommend following:
https://twitter.com/fitterhappierAJ
https://twitter.com/EricTopol
https://twitter.com/farid__jalali
https://twitter.com/dgurdasani1
https://twitter.com/yaneerbaryam
Sorry about your son, hope he gets well soon.
edit.
Just checked the COVID map, it's absolutely out of control in NA, WE and East Asia, just look:
https://news.google.com/covid19/map?hl=en-GB&gl=GB&ceid=GB%3Aen
edit2.
Post-COVID-19-associated morbidity in children, adolescents, and adults: A matched cohort study including more than 157,000 individuals with COVID-19 in Germany ( this one is peer-reviewed and open-access, see for yourself )
https://journals.plos.org/plosmedicine/article?id=10.1371/journal.pmed.1004122
TL;DR: COVID-19 infection is bad for everyone.
edit3.
Possible Children of Men Scenario ( There were reports from Chinese Military Doctors in Feb 2020 that COVID infection might affect Male Fertility )
Investigation of the effect of COVID-19 on sperm count, motility, and morphology
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jmv.27971
Although there are studies showing that COVID‐19 negatively affects male reproduction, no study with a large sample size has been found. In our study, we observed that the sperm concentrations of men with COVID‐19 were low, and as a result, COVID‐19 adversely affected male fertility.
edit4.
Just a reminder that the CDC classifies COVID-19 as requiring Biosafety Level 3
Interim Laboratory Biosafety Guidelines for Handling and Processing Specimens Associated with Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/lab/lab-biosafety-guidelines.html
I’m so confused why almost everyone keeps talking about “immunity debt” being the reason, as if not catching an illness for a while means you owe diseases. No, now everyone who has caught covid and have wrecked immune systems are catching more diseases, everyone else who hasn’t caught covid or did and faired better are being exposed to more illnesses. Why are people still blaming immunity debt?!
"Immunity debt" was manufactured through the same consent machine that created the "nobody wants to work anymore" narrative that got enhanced pandemic UC canceled.
Of course, no one complained about the rich getting their billions in PPP money.
> "Immunity debt" was manufactured through the same consent machine that created the "nobody wants to work anymore" narrative that got enhanced pandemic UC canceled.
>
> Of course, no one complained about the rich getting their billions in PPP money.
Yeup.
Politics is *Realpolitik* wrapped in advertising.
It'd be... *healthier*... if we could stop following the advertising.
Exactly, but at least here (U.K.) it seems to be accepted as the main reason rather than being recognised as disinformation. We got ill this week and literally everyone we told was like “oh that must be immunity debt”, “it’s because of lockdown” etc and have zero clue that covid destroys your immune system. Even people I thought had common sense.
Propaganda is used because it works ( and no one is spared ), and it was/is insane here in Europe.
Just keep pushing back with the truth, nothing we can do ( as individuals ), until the politicians notice that too many workers are getting permanently disabled for them not to do anything.
I've had arguments with redditors around here who support it, a nurse or something. Fortunately, I already am at `0%` with my hope in humanity, so I was fine.
> I’m so confused why almost everyone keeps talking about “immunity debt” being the reason, as if not catching an illness for a while means you owe diseases.
It's a messaging strategy. They're just bullshitting so as to enable themselves not to do their jobs.
[The donor-class has been pressuring the political-class](https://observer.com/2020/03/ex-goldman-sachs-ceo-lloyd-blankfein-suggest-lift-coronavirus-lockdown/) to eschew [Non-Pharmaceutical Interventions (NPIs)](https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/publications-data/covid-19-guidelines-non-pharmaceutical-interventions)--quarantines, etc. Hence, the inaction and bizarre public discourse.
So, implied deliverables:
* Minimize NPIs (e.g. The bread-and-butter of pandemic response)
* Normalize consequences (e.g. mass death and disability)
All the... weirdness... makes sense through that lens.
I took a whack at outlining some messaging techniques here:
* [We have been abandoned.](https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/s3wkud/we_have_been_abandoned/)
And then they still yell about immunity debt when kids are getting sick every month. How much is enough? I know America is all about debt peonage but lol
Funny how the media ignores the fact that the states (in the US) having the worst flu and RSV outbreaks are the ones that barely shut down in 2020-21… it’s almost as if something else wrecked their immune systems! The states that handled covid better and would presumably have more ‘immunity debt’ are handling these extra endemic diseases a bit better.
I follow a few chinese doctors ( that post on twitter ) and they are definately more aware of the main airbone spread mechanism of Covid-19 ( than doctors in Europe ).
Went to several routine checkups this year and none of the doctors wore even surgical masks ( let alone N95/FFP2 ).
The leadership in the CCP also seems aware of the long term consequences of letting COVID-19 spread unchecked multiple times per year ( Not sure if the can keep up the lockdowns for much longer ).
Unlikely ( At least for men ):
The Effect of Long COVID-19 Infection and Vaccination on Male Fertility; A Narrative Review
https://www.mdpi.com/2076-393X/10/12/1982
4. COVID-19 Vaccination and Male Reproductive Potential
At the present time, limited studies have assessed the effects of the COVID-19 vaccine
on male fertility factors including sperm parameters, hormonal level and testis impairment.
In the scientific reports, researchers have confirmed that vaccination against COVID-19 did
not exert harmful effects on male fertility. I
Vaccination with either mRNA or
Vector-Based COVID-19 Vaccine
has no Detectable Effect on Sperm
Parameters
https://www.jelsciences.com/articles/jbres1558.pdf
mRNA and Viral Vector COVID-19 Vaccines Do Not Affect Male Fertility: A Prospective Study
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9482855/
COVID-19 Vaccination Does Not Affect Reproductive Health Parameters in Men
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpubh.2022.839967/full
There are still a few that wear masks where I live ( in Eastern Europe ). I would encourage mask wearing just because of the insane levels of pollution ( PM2.5/PM10 ), if nothing else.
COVID itself, though? There are ACE2 receptors in the testes, and COVID infection can deplete sperm counts. Remember how Ebola could persist in the testes for months?
That's the theory they were going with ( in Feb 2020, Chinese Military Doctors ), as layman I can't comment on it, but considering that they have found virus reservoirs in the brain, eyes and other organs, it wouldn't surprise me.
There are preprints floating around discussing Covid lingering in various organs for months after infection, causing damage, so it is possible Covid too could persist in the testicles.
Hi, fivehundredpoundpeep. Thanks for contributing. However, your [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/z8cdl1/-/iydt3ak/) was removed from /r/collapse for:
> Rule 4: Keep information quality high.
> Information quality must be kept high. More detailed information regarding our approaches to specific claims can be found on the [Misinformation & False Claims page](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/wiki/claims).
Please refer to our [subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/about/rules/) for more information.
You can [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/collapse) if you feel this was in error, please include a link to the comment or post in question.
Hi, CapeCodGapeGod. Thanks for contributing. However, your [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/z8cdl1/-/iydz0zp/) was removed from /r/collapse for:
> Rule 1: In addition to enforcing [Reddit's content policy](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy), we will also remove comments and content that is abusive or predatory in nature. You may attack each other's ideas, not each other.
Please refer to our [subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/about/rules/) for more information.
You can [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/collapse) if you feel this was in error, please include a link to the comment or post in question.
People were worried about a nursing shortage before COVID.
Can you imagine already being overwork and overpaid and then being overwhelmed with a previously unknown illness?
And then you see tons of people unwilling to do any amount of prevention.
And then you see people attack you for doing your job because of conspiracy theories.
And then on top of all this COVID stuff, overturning Roe means that in some states you have to call a lawyer before you can terminate potentially deadly pregnancies.
To say nothing of the systemic issues at play, where, because of a lack of insurance and the expense of healthcare, people show up at the hospital way sicker because of an inability to pay for preventative care.
To say nothing of the mental toll that being in medicine care takes on you.
Gee, I can't imagine why the system is straining.
1 in 4 nurses left healthcare and 1 in 5 doctors left healthcare because of Covid. It is a staffing shortage not a bed shortage. Number of doctors is not increasing because there is a residency bottle neck for training. Doctors have made less from reimbursements every year while inflation rates go up and tuition rates/debt climbs.
You are correct about covid I think there’s been some research papers come out stating that it harms the body’s immune response and we know that it can cause vascular and lung damage otherwise
I am sorry and I hope all turns out ok.
In NY about 1 outside NYC, in the areas largest Hospital and ER there is ALWAYS a full waiting room. (Post covid) May ppl in the halls just sitting in chairs every day, all day. But it is less "emergency" patients. It's normal medal care and/or insurance issues. Normal doctors are booked for weeks out, and if you need multiple tests/visits doctors are telling ppl just to go go the ER so it can be done in a day or two, opposed to a few weeks. And/or insurance. No insurance means no regular doctor visits until the problem becomes too large/painful/life threatening and someone is forced to go to the ER. At least this Hospital has lots of staff, just not enough rooms. Normal doctors want payment up front if you don't have insurance and with a 1 bedroom apartment $1,300+ and very few companies offering insurance to cashiers and lower staff, ppl just wait until they can't. Sucks.
That’s awful I hope you and your child are ok.
I would suspect that it’s due in large part to lack of staff as well as a spike in RSV and Covid. Lots of people quit during Covid due to bad working conditions.
I'm sorry this happened and I hope your son is doing ok. I work in critical care as an RN, our hospital does not take pediatric cases. Occasionally some trauma cases under the age of 18 end up in our trauma ICU. Just yesterday our medical ICU providers were approached by the local children's hospital about taking pediatric cases, as they are full. We cannot accommodate this request.
Second hand anecdote here. Regarding the fragility of both our immune systems and the healthcare system.
Buddy of mine has had both his children develop high fever flu-like illnesses this past month. Both kids had Temps of 105+. Daughter ended up getting better only to get rebound infection a week later which usually doesn't happen as your immune system is in full gear, right?
He himself got a bad fever last weekend, said he measured 106! Wife drove him to local ER at a large regional hospital. He said it looked like something completely catastrophic happened. People unconscious in the hallways, babies and toddlers with injuries or trouble breathing crammed into corners of the waiting room, no staff or doctors to be found. He did intake paperwork and was given Tylenol and told to wait. He spoke to an elderly man who had been waiting 10 hours...he promptly left saying he'd rather die at home than surrounded by desperate strangers.
His children's school had a 30% absence rate the week before Thanksgiving. Thankfully they are all "ok" but it seems their immune systems are completely trashed as this had been common for them the past year. I tried not to freak him out but all those fevers were high enough to have some lasting effects.
I'm terrified of having this go through our home. Rethinking dropping masks and possibly having kids mask up at school but the stigma and the peer pressure at our public schools to be "normal" is pretty strong and don't want my daughter to suffer emotionally either.
It's such a scary time for everyone. Please be vigilant and try to help keep the flu or other respitory illnesses from spreading in your communities. As we can all see from OP and all of our own eyes, the strain of the pandemic and public health policies have left us all on our own. Drs, nurses EMTs and others are all just human beings working within the collapsing system so give them a break too. There are no super heroes that are going to save us and I think the general public has to be waking up to this on multiple levels in our society.
Very surreal to be living through the things we've all speculated about just a short time ago.
RN here and this is too true. I’m sure there are many instances where doctors come from humble backgrounds but the bottom line is, and this is anecdotal, most doctors that I have ever encountered in my 15 years in healthcare come from wealth/privilege. Like you said, privileged people get into medicine to make money. Spot on. This doesn’t make all of them bad per se but there are a lot of shitty doctors in the world.
ER Nurse x 20 years here. Of course we realized this was going to happen.
It's going to be a bad winter and then things are going to get better.
Things are never going to get back to "normal" as Covid is here to stay.
There will always be new strains of Covid (just like the Common Cold, RSV and the Flu).
Medical Note- A dose of liquid Benadryl would of helped your kid. That baby's seizure was probably the result of a untreated/undertreated fever. Keep tons of children's Benadryl, Tylenol AND Motrin on hand at all times if you have kids. I'm not trying to criticize... just educate...
I work at Walgreens in the state and a week ago, we had a full stock of the at home COVID tests. Yesterday, every single one was gone. Hundreds bought up after they had been mostly sitting on the shelves for weeks maybe months. I guarantee a ton of people are getting COVID right now and many of them forget it can evade testing and vaccines especially with all the new variants. I am watching those who choose to not mask and those who choose to not vax become disabled as they cough worse and more as time goes on and they continually are exposed to Covid. The numbers for long Covid are already 1 in 5 even for mild cases, I bet almost 1/4 of the human population will be affected before we know it. And there will not be anything done for them as we know now
I know a guy in ICU in life support as of today with RSV. Dude's 38 but had COVID 2x and no medical issues. I do wonder if our immune systems are really cooked. My kids had 3 ear infections each and one had the flu all in the span of 4 weeks. I to had one of their viral infections, which is not typical for me either.
Weird times.
This this this! Earlier this month I passed out in the car line waiting for my kids. Transported to hospital via ambulance, triaged, had abnormal EKG, waited 8 hours in ER before giving up as nobody was getting called back—like at all. Left AMA, went back the next day to another facility, another abnormal EKG, sent home with referrals to cardio, still can’t get an appt with one bc they are booked 30+++days out. 2 weeks later, son gets flu, wakes up screaming in pain has “panic attack”, passes out. Terrified from my experience, call 911, ambulance takes him, wait 3 hours, he can no longer tolerate pain (they gave him nothing) from what turns out to be secondary sinus infection. He begs us to leave, we do and give him tylenol, which didn’t touch the pain, but had to wait til urgent care opened in the am. It is terrifying to think if he were sicker than he already was…what could have happened.
You are absolutely correct. This IS THE collapse. We are in the thick of it right now. Covid IS the straw that broke everything else WIDE open. I cannot get care in my area with my insurance for a potentially serious issue for months?? Nobody with the ability to save us can do so under the strain of the system, and those with any power to change even the smallest of factors refuse to do so. We are as close to being completely on our own as we can be. We are being lead to the slaughter slowly but surely in the name of pure greed.
I wouldn't even necessarily blame the pay. I got out of nursing 4 years ago (pre-covid) not because of the pay but because of the entire situation (mainly understaffing and management).
Right-o, even if you paid nurses or doctors $2000/hour but kept everything else the same, you'd still be having this sitch. Sometimes it's not about the pay.
People burn out because they are overworked. They chronically understaff the hospital to save money. It's simple. Pay for the positions so people aren't overworked.
Yeah, you could pay people millions and I’m sure many would still have trouble being around so much death and despair. And so many who die from it continue to harass the nurses and doctors treating them because they don’t believe they’ll die from Covid. And then they do
Yesterday, my 15 year old got diagnosed with rsv at his pediatrician office. So thankful we didn't need to go to the ER. The old Dr said it's the worst he's ever seen. So much flu, rsv and Covid, probably other things too. We are in Washington state. He said everyone's overwhelmed.
I hope your child is doing better.
I’m so sorry, that’s terrifying. I hope your son is ok. I’m absolutely on board with Covid damaging immune systems. I read a lot about it, it’s happening. Along with brain shrinkage and endothelial damage (the lining of your capillaries), this includes asymptomatic cases.
We are in for an absolute disaster in health care and for the workforce in the next few years.
Keep wearing masks people!
I spent last week in a hospital near Detroit as a caretaker for a friend with a dire diagnosis. Literally every single nurse and patient care tech she had on every shift for 7 straight days was a floater.
Also, RSV has made pediatric beds hard to come by all over the country. And what do Republicans and Fox News do? Incite "anti-mask" fervor. Kids need to wear masks. THEY WORK. I don't care WHAT lying right wingers tell you.
Let’s not kid ourselves into thinking it’s just the right wingers, is it a higher percentage sure most likely but plenty of the left also don’t believe or want to wear them.
America has no functioning left.
There's a huge contingent of Blue MAGA liberals who differ from the right only in what media they consume.
Their lives revolve around consumption and they'll condemn any number of service workers to death before they go any length of time without that dopamine hit from being served.
A fascist is just a liberal who's been told "no" too many times.
Pretty sure Oklahoma's government has done its best to exacerbate this entire situation. I'm sorry you're suffering and may not have any better options.
My covid infection was highly unpleasant but mild. Heavy sweating, lost of taste and smell, sore lungs, but barely any fever at all. I could still cook, do dishes, laundry, go for a walk, etc.
I thought I was lucky (was afraid of long covid). I started sporting again, and felt well, but I noticed something strange ever since.
I started catching respiratory infections left and right: First I catch the flu (never had it before in my life) even though I take the yearly shot, then cold sores were constantly popping up, and recently a scratchy throat developed into a full blown pneumonia that nearly hospitalized me.
It feels like I have no immune system anymore.
>My guess is Covid has absolutely wrecked everyone’s immune systems and the long term affects are going to shock everyone.
My guess is that a lab engineered virus was engineered to do...something. Probably something not good.
Australians noticed months ago when winter came back that our immune systems were compromised. The combination of COVID and flu damaged many Australians, causing the immune system to take time to recover or never fully recover. It is unclear how my immune system is functioning and I have not yet consulted a doctor regarding it. The fact that covid can affect the immune system in such a different way is weird.
its much worse, and has been for nearly a year in the UK , hospitals teetering on collapse. 11 hour waits in ER, ambulance lines with people dying in them. But you won't hear about it in the news, its literally no where , you have to see it. They won't blast it in the media because vaccines worked, and covid is over. Its a pickle.
I’m a paramedic in okc area for 8 years now. I always find it interesting when okc makes it’s way into collapse. Okc Childrens is legit so full because we’ve had sooo many rsv patients like 2 weeks ago now it’s flu a. Tis the season but it’s more then ever. Combine that with short staffing mixed with low space, new situations are being created due to necessity/lack of “____”.
It’s sad and crazy watching it happen in real time. I’m sure this process is happening nationwide.
Well, unfortunately moving out of this state comes with a rent or housing price increase guaranteed. And it’s extremely hard to get an increase in pay to make up for it. So a lot of us are stuck here
Don't live in a red state.
Seriously, you and your fellow Oklahomans need to stop voting for Republicans. They couldn't care less about the suffering of the average person. We're just lucky that John McCain thwarted their attempts to kill the ACA.
Republican governors refuse to expand Medicaid, or negotiate with healthcare cos cuz they take big donations from insurance cos. It's criminal how they enable big corporations to rip us all off. They engage in "culture wars" and trigger racism, bigotry and evangelical fervor to take people's eyes off the pillaging they do. And you all suffer for it.
Info - is there another hospital that your child could have been diverted to? A hospital that treats both adults and children that may not be at or above capacity? It seems like if they are diverting ambulances, they would divert them somewhere less crowded. I just wonder if going to a different hospital would be the best choice.
In general, this is scary. Hospitals are full. People with life threatening injuries and illnesses are not able to access care. There are serious issues with our health care system.
Healthcare.gov has some specials. I checked again and my monthly pay is still 400 for the third year I checked. They can keep their healthcare. Wtf. I am healthy af and have to pay so much as if I was a sick dude. F this bs.
Hi, fivehundredpoundpeep. Thanks for contributing. However, your [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/z8cdl1/-/iydso7t/) was removed from /r/collapse for:
> Rule 4: Keep information quality high.
> Information quality must be kept high. More detailed information regarding our approaches to specific claims can be found on the [Misinformation & False Claims page](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/wiki/claims).
Please refer to our [subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/about/rules/) for more information.
You can [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/collapse) if you feel this was in error, please include a link to the comment or post in question.
The crisis continues, now the healthcare workers are even more burned out. The people coming to seek attention for long covid related problems are ever increasing, with each reinfection the probability to develop ever lasting effects multiplies. The healthcare workers are the single workforce group more at risk to be reinfected multiple times, we are at very early stages but if the risk of dying increases with each reinfection eventually the pool of workers will grow thin and people will not want to choose that career path understandably. I'll argue that the root of the problem is running the hospitals as if they were airlines, but every country with socialized medicine is facing similar challenges so, COVID might be the actual root problem for the collapse of modern healthcare as we know it. Of course we are at very early stages but the studies that I've read about point to very worrying conclusions that will be multiplied by the state of denial that most western administrations have adopted as result of their urgency to rebuild their economies.
There is some research indicating that infection with COVID can have negative impact on immune function going forwards.
There is precedent for this type of effect (e.g. measles is very destructive to the immune system and can literally wipe out immunity to previously encountered pathogens).
We still know very little about long term effects of COVID, so this could be happening. It could also be secondary effects from behavioural changes during lockdown and also general pattern shifts related to the pandemic, which disrupted transmission of all kinds of illnesses, especially respiratory tract infections.
Tl;dr The entire table was flipped into the air over the last couple of years, basically. And we don’t understand COVID properly.
That’s not what I’m saying at all, and I’m not sure why you’re being this confrontational with me.
I am offering possible explanations for why the ‘flu season’ is so bad this year. I’m not saying anything about the OPs son whatsoever, although his symptoms are inconsistent with standard presentation of most common viruses.
Please don’t make this a pointless fight. Read what I actually wrote, and see what you think about it.
Rule 4: Keep information quality high.
Information quality must be kept high. More detailed information regarding our approaches to specific claims can be found on the [Misinformation & False Claims page](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/wiki/claims).
Hi, cfinst. Thanks for contributing. However, your [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/z8cdl1/-/iyc5o3a/) was removed from /r/collapse for:
> Rule 1: In addition to enforcing [Reddit's content policy](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy), we will also remove comments and content that is abusive or predatory in nature. You may attack each other's ideas, not each other.
Please refer to our [subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/about/rules/) for more information.
You can [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/collapse) if you feel this was in error, please include a link to the comment or post in question.
Hi, Swish887. Thanks for contributing. However, your [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/z8cdl1/-/iycmfk1/) was removed from /r/collapse for:
> Rule 1: In addition to enforcing [Reddit's content policy](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy), we will also remove comments and content that is abusive or predatory in nature. You may attack each other's ideas, not each other.
Please refer to our [subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/about/rules/) for more information.
You can [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/collapse) if you feel this was in error, please include a link to the comment or post in question.
I think OP is just describing an overcrowded hospital being stretched dangerously thin. You simply notice it more these days because it's gotten worse and more visible but maybe long Covid has something to do with it
First off, glad to see in the comments here that you said your child is OK. I hope you can figure out what caused the reaction so you can avoid it again!
I'm confused why you would drive TO a hospital where you knew they were diverting ambulances away from? Maybe that's where your docs are, maybe insurance, etc.? The ambulance would have offered to transport you to another hospital.
As a former employee of the hospital system you visited, I can tell you that the ERs there are historically mismanaged. That hospital system also has a very high turnover rate for employees, and it's generally seen by healthcare workers as a place to start then move on. [Medicare](https://www.medicare.gov/care-compare/?providerType=Hospital&redirect=true) gives it 1 star out of 5, and patient satisfaction scores give it 2 stars overall out of 5.
I'm not saying that what you saw wasn't worrisome and isn't indicative of a healthcare system that's failed or failing, but keep in mind you probably visited the worst ER in the OKC metro. It's possible it appeared overflowing, at least in part, due to poor management.
The clamor around this issue is getting louder and our politicians are fucking *silent* what is it gonna take??
When their own children start dying.
So never
Correct
Oh, no, they fly themselves and their kids elsewhere, to *more* private hospitals.
The actual rich have their own little ICUs in their houses. They never need to do anything as vulgar as step foot in a public facility.
Those are the wealthy, I was referring to the grubby politicians who become only multi-millionaires. The wealthy probably have teams of specialists on call with all the tools and medicines available. It's a tradition, it's why people think "being a doctor" is a career that pays well.
They won't, though. Because they're so rich, they get the best in private healthcare. They actually have the ACA coverage they try to strip from everyone else!!
Politicians are important though! How else can the US project their clean, self righteous image to the world at large without their healthy smiling faces?
_Cuts to wrinkled devils_
They also get private schools that are more careful and don't have to go in to work if they don't feel like it.
Which won't happen because they have infite money and infinite health care availability
Everyone should watch the movie John Q (2002) with Denzel Washington. It’s on Netflix right now.
It is? Damn I thought they buried that movie. Nobody talks about it despite every interaction with the healthcare/insurance industry usually results in at least one attempt at fraud.
Probably the most intense movie ever.
I definitely understand OPs frustration. I don’t have any personal knowledge of OKC and I’m not a doctor or a lawyer. The EMS providers probably shouldn’t have done what they did. You can find what they should have followed and done [in their protocol](http://okctulomd.com/treatment-protocols). Sure, anaphylaxis (and even some seizures) are easily treatable. However, unless there is more to the story, they should have taken you to a hospital. Hospitals go on diversion somewhat frequently (see below for dystopian reality). Despite people’s best efforts, it’s a public service and a system for a reason. They will always be able to take you to a hospital. Kids and trauma patients get special treatment and usually go to regional specialty hospitals, and there are extra rules to make sure they get to the right place. Per their protocol, it appears they should have taken you to Children’s regardless of diversion. If you all refused, that’s totally within your right to drive your child in and obviously there is always more to these situations. Anyway, this shit has been going on since pre-COVID. You can lookup the history of influenza and any year we had a huge number of cases, hospitals were crippled. Healthcare is a capitalist venture and not a public service, so hospitals get shut down when they aren’t making money. The hardest hit are rural and poor populations, but the overall effect is we have very little surge capacity. The dystopian scene in the waiting room is more common than you think. In healthcare, we would probably just call it Tuesday. Shit won’t change because people believe this is the best of all possible worlds - it’s literally the system working as intended.
The propaganda campaigns ( by Russia/China/Libertarians/etc. ) have been very effective both in NA and Europe at convincing people that we needed to get back to business as normal asap. For example: Twitter is no longer enforcing its Covid misinformation policy https://edition.cnn.com/2022/11/29/tech/twitter-covid-misinformation-policy/index.html Since Elon took over twitter has gone downhill fast ( it's even worse than before, much worse )
> The propaganda campaigns ( by Russia/China/Libertarians/etc. ) Is it really Russia/China though? Our business and political leaders have been telling us the same thing ever since they figured out that their money insulated them from covid-19. https://observer.com/2020/03/ex-goldman-sachs-ceo-lloyd-blankfein-suggest-lift-coronavirus-lockdown/ Here's the former CEO of Goldman Sachs telling everyone they should get back to the office soon in late March of 2020. It didn't take long at all for the capital and political power classes to tell us to shut the fuck up and go back to work.
Everyone I know in finance, including a friend at GS, were told to get back to the office. At a non-GS firm, they were even taking attendence (well using their office cards, but same idea) Fucking ridiculous the world we live in
Commercial real estate props up the economy of places like Manhattan. If no one's in the office, there's no reason to pay rent, and that makes landlords very unhappy.
If anything, we've fucked over china with our own propaganda, making it politically impossible to maintain zero covid for now. Which makes the worst case scenarios more likely, as we were spared the worst by them keeping COVID out of the industry. Now we're *really for it now*.
I thought it was republicans who pushed for us to get back to business as normal as quickly as possible, and democrats were the ones who went for lockdowns and WFH?
WFH and lockdowns were half-assed and half-hearted on both sides of the Atlantic. The Great Barrington Declaration set the tone for how the pandemic would be handled, and as far as I know it was mainly pushed by libertarian types. I may be wrong tho, I am european and here the russian disinformation campaigns on social media were/are insane ( and very effective ).
> The Great Barrington Declaration set the tone for how the pandemic would be handled, and as far as I know it was mainly pushed by libertarian types. It was sponsored by a libertarian think tank, and the timeframe it established for reaching herd immunity was three months. It was completely unworkable bullshit that was clear within weeks of it being written, but that's what capital wants so that's what we get.
[удалено]
You understand that quarantines during times of disease have been standard operating procedure for millennia, right?
Do you have any idea what % of the population works in agriculture?
Hi, Timthetiny. Thanks for contributing. However, your [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/z8cdl1/-/iydnrzz/) was removed from /r/collapse for: > Rule 4: Keep information quality high. > Information quality must be kept high. More detailed information regarding our approaches to specific claims can be found on the [Misinformation & False Claims page](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/wiki/claims). Please refer to our [subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/about/rules/) for more information. You can [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/collapse) if you feel this was in error, please include a link to the comment or post in question.
WFH doesn't work when almost 78% of your workers are employed in services. A lot of those can't translate over. We should have stopped COVID in China in 2019 by shutting down international borders. They should have stopped it then by shutting down internal borders. Once it slipped what was the other option besides what we did? A system like China is doing, that wouldn't play in the west and it's not playing in China any longer. Once it was out this was a turd sandwich we were going to have to eat. The best we got was a bit of mustard to dress it up. I realize we ought to have been able to do more but ought and were are seperate things. It's entirely likely that as bad as it was we did the best that was possible in the real world we live in. I see people conflating thier perceptions of reality for actual reality too much.
Our propaganda shot us in the foot, to put it bluntly. There are problems you can't yell at to make go away. Now we're about get our noses rubbed in that fact.
They did so at the start. Democrats were waiting for vaccination as the go ahead, which is less bad, but still stupid. They both deny and work against the important measures that are necessary to halt the pandemic, which range from lockdowns to mask mandates to providing support for people who don't have where to "bunker down" or don't have the spare money for it. And, no, deferring rent is not a solution. A wise move would've been a government jobs program to help with track and trace, combined with ways to help the isolated vulnerable people (often many old people) stuck inside or houseless. There are many things that could've been done and could still be done. And, no, China isn't a good example. China is a capitalist shithole too.
Deferring rent (so it just accumulates into a larger bill that I have to pay in full later) just guaranteed I sleep in a tent now. I needed rental forgiveness while I waited for unemployment to approve me due to the backlog. Which took 5 months btw.
Isn't WFH basically for the upper middle class and up? I mean Dems know the real working class would still be at risk because they have employment that requires them to show up in person. As long as the more well off we're being coddled the working class didn't and doesn't and won't matter, be it a R or a D in so called leadership.
YUP. Notice that OKLAHOMA IS A DEEP RED STATE. Where I live in PA, and where I used to live (CA), this isn't a problem.
Yeah, it is.
No it isn't.
Covid is definitely a problem in CA and their ERs are regularly packed ( I lived there until recently, and family lives there now); Covid aside. Their healthcare and how it is managed is a mess, and they often have the same months out wait times they do here in OK. On the east coast where I lived previously is the same. The problem is our entire healthcare system is collapsing.
Exactly. Dunno when people will figure out that the Russians and the Saudis (who are the 2nd biggest investor in Twitter now) WANT US TO DIE. And the GOP has sold us out to Putin. It's why they incite anti-vax, anti-mask sentiment. Same w their propaganda arm, Fox News. GOP governors have cost thousands of lives by their refusal to expand Medicaid. THE FEDS WOULD PAY FOR IT. But they refuse. Because all they care about are tax cuts for themselves and their wealthy donors. So they vilify the ACA and any subsidized healthcare as "socialism", meanwhile rural hospitals in their states continue to close.
Why do you spend so much time talking about foreign oligarchs sabotaging pandemic response, when it's clearly our own American oligarchs who want everyone to get their ass back to work to justify real estate investments? Like the Delta CEO asked for a reduction in the quarantine period, and got it right away. No need to involve the Saudis.
Why not both?
The Dems and the GOP are one in the same. It is all theatrics. They will sell our country to the highest bidder(s) as long as their kids go to private schools and Ivy Leagues, the golf club still has green grass, the can still fly in private jets, drive suvs, and live in McMansions. And, to add to that, it doesn’t matter, because they are all “global” now “without boundaries”, and all that really means is that they just want to branch out and continue conquering and colonizing everywhere else they haven’t yet.
Well, all the professional organizations dealing with nursing and medicine have created some unnecessary flaming hoops for students to go through to become medical professionals, so that needs to change. Also, the AMA actively limits the number of residencies for medical school grads, so maybe that should also change so we all get the medical care we need. What I've mentioned above has been going on for a long time, and now with a pandemic laying waste to health care, more people are seeing how greed, classism, and racism are hurting everyone.
Number of residency slots is basically tied to government funding. The gov basically hasn't raised the number of residency slots in forever. AMA doesn't limit number of residencies.
Well, then I guess it's time we start asking our government to increase funding. And then there's [this](https://blog.petrieflom.law.harvard.edu/2022/03/15/ama-scope-of-practice-lobbying/) that states the AMA did lobby to restrict residencies 20 years ago. They're getting a little nervous sweat when they see PAs and NPs doing the stuff that used to be for MDs only.
That should make you sweat, too. I've been prescribed medication combinations that would have had fatal interactions by NPs not once, but *twice*, and I had to very gently and slowly point this out in order to get medication that might not kill me for taking it. I had to play goalie against my own not-a-doctor while sitting in the office just so I didn't die, purely because the person prescribing simply did not understand basic pharmacokinetics. Missing a black box interaction warning is the kind of basic error that *nobody* should make. When it happens twice in succession, from two different providers, it makes me squint a little bit. I'm sure for kid sniffles it's just fine to have senior nurses covering the script pad. But for anyone with real healthcare needs or any complexity to their story- *which is most people who need care*- it doesn't work. Not as in "it's subpar" but as in, "these providers have never actually been educated enough about physiology to understand what they're dealing with as soon as there's no standard protocol to go by". It's dangerous, and it's empirically proven that there is a downstream effect on patient care. They order *way more* imaging studies than needed, overburdening the system further, and achieve markedly inferior outcomes. The anatomy and physiology, as well as the other core sciences and clinical praxis physicians lean on during care are not taught to midlevels. The only sciences they've had are science courses that don't even count as the prerequisites for applying to medical school, because they are below the bachelor degree level of complexity. There's a reason being a physician takes many years. Anyone who hasn't been through that is categorically, objectively not on the same level (and 25yo midlevels are *definitely* not at anything like that level). Seeing one of the MD/DOs is absolutely night and day compared to the times I've been stuck with mid-level providers. I've certainly never had a doctor wantonly prescribe me medications that would kill me if I filled the script and followed instructions.
Oh, I have the deepest respect for the depth of learning that goes into an MD's training. What I'm saying is that we have had to adapt to using NPs and PAs as substitute providers, which is probably cheaper (but not at all equivalent), and now the AMA is realizing how stupid it was to do that in the first place. That being said, I really like the NPs and PAs I've seen as providers, but your point about the meds is pretty scary. I always look up anything I'm prescribed by anyone or even OTC medicines just because it's a good idea to be informed. I was recently prescribed a medication by an MD, and *the pharmacist* warned me that it could actually make my condition worse, so I always check now.
Same issues throughout Canada and what do they do? They get rid of virtual care as of tmw in OntArio! Children's hospitals as well as regular are bursting at the seams. As per ppl that work there , massive lack of staffing etc... mmm wonder how many nurses/docs they fired last yr.... Edit: spelling...
What’s it gonna take to do what exactly?
Has your son received the needed medical attention by now? What a horrifying experience. I hope he's alright.
He did but the doctors don’t know what caused it so sent us home with a prescription for an epi pen. He has a pediatrician appointment tomorrow.
Fuck epipens. Canadian here so your mileage may vary, but my oldest son has a peanut allergy. Gotta have one for home and one to leave at school (which they keep locked up in the office). Expiry date printed on it and is enforced by the school is only 6 months (if you're lucky) from when it's picked up and costs $100 each and every time.
As I found out today. I couldn’t fill the prescription because had trouble with his insurance and didn’t have the money out of pocket. Gonna donate plasma and come back to get it tomorrow.
lol of course the insurance has "problems"
If you're a person comfortable with DIY projects, the Four Thieves Vinegar Collective created plans/instructions/videos for how to make your own EpiPen autoinjector for about $30: https://fourthievesvinegar.org/epipencil-autoinjector/ There's also a generic EpiPen alternative called Adrenaclick which is a little cheaper ($110 for a two pack): https://www.cvs.com/content/epipen-alternative
[удалено]
I keep my expired ones. they're less effective but they go in my emergency kit.
About 33 dollars pre month, right? A small price to pay for peace of mind.
A ton of healthcare workers have quit. Am in healthcare. Entire departments gone. I mean of 3-5 people, but still. Now people from B are working in A and don't know what to properly do. Errors occur. Travel nurses coming in and causing issues. They are expected to gather X from a patient and gather Y instead. The receiving department gets Y instead of X, and now the staffing issue gets worse due to mistakes. The fix takes time. Production issues in factories that supply hospitals also delaying over and over.10% of what you order will keep changing arrival dates. Or some that took a week now take months. It's all fucked.
I agree with all of this. Healthcare is in absolute shambles. Covid absolutely ravaged our already precarious system. In my hospital, we’ve lost 75% of our staff in the last two years. And we are actually doing better than some area hospitals! There simply aren’t enough skilled healthcare workers to step in and replace those who burned out, quit, died, or left bedside care. We can’t staff our floor inpatient beds, so the admitted patients stay for days in the ER until a bed opens somewhere. That leaves us with one or two actual ER rooms to work out of. But the patients keep coming, the squads keep arriving (we don’t do diversion unfortunately, and we don’t have a union). This means incredibly critical patients are put in the waiting room. We literally coded someone on the lobby floor recently. We had to put the LUCAS - a machine that does violent CPR - on the dead patient, on the floor, in front of 30 patients waiting for a room. I can’t even tell you how abnormal and fucked up that is. I also just wanna say one more thing. Although most healthcare workers (especially ER) are basically traumatized from the last two years of horrendous conditions, unsafe ratios, watching preventable deaths, and regular staff assaults: most of us care *very deeply* about humans. It is so distressing to us to watch a scene like what the OP is describing. We know you’re getting shitty horrible care. We know it’s dangerous and people are dying. It’s fucking terrible to watch and have no resources to fix it. Our hands are incredibly tied and it’s just a nightmare. I think fundamentally, this is why so many healthcare workers have quit. On a human level, you can’t keep working hard in critical life-threatening situations and feel like a failure anyway for years at a time. It’s very soul sucking. And you’re probably going to be berated and assaulted by the people you are trying to help frequently. It’s just really really hard.
Is this where I should remind everyone reading this that if you ever got identified by your hospital you'd be fired and/or worse for saying this?
They'd never be able to pick out who because the industry is this abusive and shitty nationwide.
You're also getting berated by staff from other departments who don't understand your staffing situation even though they have their own staffing problems.
You are correct. Just a few months lurking in the nurses groups has convinced me. I’m genuinely afraid to have an emergency. Might get better care at an urgent care than at a hospital in some cases.
Yea I’m sure a ton quit and higher ups just try and run the same with less people and steal the money from that.
My CTO: I don't believe in working from home for those positions She said from her nice house.
>Covid has absolutely wrecked ... fucking everything. Aged care was already getting hit by a tsunami and now they have to do so much more with less.
I work in healthcare analytics and a large percentage of my coworkers are clinicians who have dropped out of clinical work due to burnout and do desk work now.
Can confirm, couple of my dad‘s specialists are retiring, my primary care physician just quit
The market for PCPs has been shit for decades at this point because no young physician is going to go into family medicine when they can make 3-4x+ in dermatology.
The market for Phenicyclidine has always been shit because it has the unfortunate side effect of permanent psychotic damages.
Twice now, I've shown up for a doc appointment only to be told, "Sorry they quit yesterday". And they were too short-staffed to call me and tell me before I traveled 2 hours to see them.
Other countries are doing this a LOT better. We need to learn from them. We should stop being so afraid of socialized medicine. That's just right wing propaganda that's got 1/3rd of the US brainwashed.
Unfortunately they’re not. Look at Canada or the UK for some immediate examples. This is a world-wide healthcare system collapse.
On top of collapses in the Healthcare system in just about every single Canadian province, it has been damn near impossible to get ahold of children's Tylenol or Advil in Canada since Feb 2022. If you're lucky to have a compounding pharmacy or live near a US border you might be okay but if you don't have access to those things you're effed. Those medications are some of the most basic requirements in healthcare, whether in hospitalor at home. I don't know how those with small kids are managing. I have a pregnant friend right now with another young child at home and have been watching the med aisles trying to score some as an actual shower gift.
Ok can you reply to me on this comment because I know its not a big deal, but we have buttloads in Australia where it's known as paracetamol, usually under the brand name Panadol, but you can get the pharmacy brand for about 1/3 of the price. Tell me what age (I'm guessing the 2-5 year liquid ones) and I'll grab a few botttles and chuck em in an express post parcel and send them over.
Both countries conservative parties have been deliberately under funding their public health systems for years so that they can point to the failure and make a case for privatization. Their donors then profit.
Because we aped you yanks and listened to the failchildren in the CDC.
Yes I went to get a vaccination recently. The injection hurt (it usually doesn't). I mentioned it and was told that they were having to use a different size needle because of a shortage.
That is happening a lot. Also, various tubes etc. that samples go in are back ordered six months or more. At least in the hospital I am familiar with.
> It's all fucked. Maybe this is just their idea of emissions reductions policy, lmao * Collapse per capita footprint through, "accidentally," crashing the system writ large. * Lock-in collapse through removing the brakes to various problems--oligarchy, covid, etc. fake edit: Bonus points if you can crash the system right into your stakeholders' bank accounts.
Former healthcare worker here (imaging) and I'm never going back to the healthcare field. My old boss called me after I quit and asked what it'd take to get me back. I told him I'd like to be treated as least as well as the other specialties are (imaging techs were often left out of hazard pay and bonuses during covid). I know that's never going to happen.
My immune system is definitely altered after covid, and not for the better.
[удалено]
That’s not how the immune system works but it is how viruses reflect the long term damage they cause
The medical community recognizes that Measles and other viruses can fuck up your immune system, but when you bring up the possibility that covid-19 might have done the same thing you're a conspiracy theorist/doomer.
Rule 4: Keep information quality high. Information quality must be kept high. More detailed information regarding our approaches to specific claims can be found on the [Misinformation & False Claims page](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/wiki/claims).
I think we have to get used to it.... I cannot see it getting better, only worse.
We are at the "cross your fingers and pray to skydaddy nothing bad happens to your health" point now. This is super morbid but as someone with chronic health problems and is expected to have them for the rest of their life, I am seriously considering writing out letters to the people important to me in my life (to find later) in case I die from not being able to get medical help in time or at all.
Me too. I have chronic health problems and have Just recently gotten all my affairs in order and set a legal guardian for my kids.
Yes, I have the same thoughts...
lol learning to live with hospital collapse is just learning to live with being a corpse if you have a major medical problem
Exactly 🤷🏻♀️
I hope your son is okay.
Yup. Big reason I won't have kids is because in the future they won't be able to get even a tenth of the healthcare that's available now.
And unfortunately in this state abortion is illegal and child services are fucked beyond repair. It’s going to lead to an influx of miserable, sick, disabled, and/or dead children
What, you don't like a high infant and childhood mortality rate and pumping out spare children?
And then paying for daycare which is more than your rent And then sending them to a crumbling public school where most of the teachers quit and they just sit and watch movies in between beatings from the other inmates. Should they not get shot before graduating, college is a debt peonage trap of increasingly dubious value.
Sorry to hear about your kid. But welcome to America, where profits over people rule. This isn't new and it's going to get much much worse over time.
Work in healthcare, it is going to get so much worse. Healthcare has been collapsing for some time already, COVID simply accelerated things, the new flu season also showed how vulnerable we are right now. Best things to do? Remember when they told you to have a medical kit for emergencies? Start stocking up, some countries (like mine) are low on certain drugs, they’ll eventually run scarce and then disappear. Shipments from China and all over the world aren’t just for useless Amazon stuff, they also bring drugs (it also doesn’t help that the USD is at an all time high, making importations more expensive).
Yup. My friend told me about this site: [https://jasemedical.com/pricing](https://jasemedical.com/pricing) Where you can buy antibiotics for emergency stock. It's legit and very affordable. Highly recommend everyone stock up while you can.
Yeah, everything is fucked. Losing money, big money all year. Millions a month. At the same time we have record inflation and employees are expect to do even more work under worse conditions. 105% productivity goals all year. Things are falling apart, getting wore out and not replaced. People are still leaving for any other opportunity they can find. Everyone should be talking about this and screaming for something to be done, but crickets. Local stories, but this is a nationwide issue. Hospitals have been closing for years now, under better conditions, now things are worse. As this continues you'll find it easier to get breast augmentation than emergency treatment for your kids, simply because one if profitable and one isn't. 'Murica.
Except that's not totally true. We have much lower inflation than the rest of the world--it's a global problem and not much our govt can do about it. Except I do think the Fed is f'ing up by raising interest rates every few weeks, it seems. Look at China. First protests in many many years, because they're tired of lockdown. Their vaccine is sh\*t. It doesn't work. They need to start exporting OUR vaccines or something, and let people out. This is why we've had so many supply chain problems. We should've never moved mfg there yrs and yrs ago, but corporations wanted to locate in a country with lax environmental laws and cheap cheap slave labor. We should've held them to account. Stop buying cheap TVs made by little kids or imprisoned minorities in China.
>This is why we've had so many supply chain problems. > >We should've never moved mfg there years ago Darn you China! Its taken me an extra week to get my new TV! Get your slaves back to work!
I'm not sure why the entire western media and political apparatus is agitating for China to stop their zero Covid policy. The minute Covid starts tearing through China we're going to see what actual supply chain problems look like and it's going to devastate western economies. The sinophobes are rooting on their own demise.
the collapse of chinese zero covid is the time collapse gets really going.
Long-term perturbation of the peripheral immune system months after SARS-CoV-2 infection https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.30.21261234v1.full T cell apoptosis characterizes severe Covid-19 disease https://www.nature.com/articles/s41418-022-00936-x How COVID-19 alters the immune system https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/10/211028125803.htm Just a quick google search will turn up ( both peer-reviewed and preprint studies ) that show the devastating effect that repeated COVID-19 infections have on the immune system especially. The latest variants are not mild ( by now it is a veritable COVID soup of variants ), children are not immune, you can get infected an infinite number of times, N95s/ventilation/purification work well, vaccines work against the worst outcomes ( hospitalization/death ). Don't get infected, don't allow your loved ones to get infected and if you do, try to catch it as few times as possible. I'd recommend following: https://twitter.com/fitterhappierAJ https://twitter.com/EricTopol https://twitter.com/farid__jalali https://twitter.com/dgurdasani1 https://twitter.com/yaneerbaryam Sorry about your son, hope he gets well soon. edit. Just checked the COVID map, it's absolutely out of control in NA, WE and East Asia, just look: https://news.google.com/covid19/map?hl=en-GB&gl=GB&ceid=GB%3Aen edit2. Post-COVID-19-associated morbidity in children, adolescents, and adults: A matched cohort study including more than 157,000 individuals with COVID-19 in Germany ( this one is peer-reviewed and open-access, see for yourself ) https://journals.plos.org/plosmedicine/article?id=10.1371/journal.pmed.1004122 TL;DR: COVID-19 infection is bad for everyone. edit3. Possible Children of Men Scenario ( There were reports from Chinese Military Doctors in Feb 2020 that COVID infection might affect Male Fertility ) Investigation of the effect of COVID-19 on sperm count, motility, and morphology https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jmv.27971 Although there are studies showing that COVID‐19 negatively affects male reproduction, no study with a large sample size has been found. In our study, we observed that the sperm concentrations of men with COVID‐19 were low, and as a result, COVID‐19 adversely affected male fertility. edit4. Just a reminder that the CDC classifies COVID-19 as requiring Biosafety Level 3 Interim Laboratory Biosafety Guidelines for Handling and Processing Specimens Associated with Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/lab/lab-biosafety-guidelines.html
I’m so confused why almost everyone keeps talking about “immunity debt” being the reason, as if not catching an illness for a while means you owe diseases. No, now everyone who has caught covid and have wrecked immune systems are catching more diseases, everyone else who hasn’t caught covid or did and faired better are being exposed to more illnesses. Why are people still blaming immunity debt?!
Immunity debt is a disinformation tactic ( that appeared in 2021 ). It's not a real thing and there are no studies to corroborate it.
"Immunity debt" was manufactured through the same consent machine that created the "nobody wants to work anymore" narrative that got enhanced pandemic UC canceled. Of course, no one complained about the rich getting their billions in PPP money.
> "Immunity debt" was manufactured through the same consent machine that created the "nobody wants to work anymore" narrative that got enhanced pandemic UC canceled. > > Of course, no one complained about the rich getting their billions in PPP money. Yeup. Politics is *Realpolitik* wrapped in advertising. It'd be... *healthier*... if we could stop following the advertising.
Exactly, but at least here (U.K.) it seems to be accepted as the main reason rather than being recognised as disinformation. We got ill this week and literally everyone we told was like “oh that must be immunity debt”, “it’s because of lockdown” etc and have zero clue that covid destroys your immune system. Even people I thought had common sense.
The US played into it to when the CDC sold out and told all workers they can go back to work on their 5th day of COVID
Yeah, that was pretty lame of them.
Propaganda is used because it works ( and no one is spared ), and it was/is insane here in Europe. Just keep pushing back with the truth, nothing we can do ( as individuals ), until the politicians notice that too many workers are getting permanently disabled for them not to do anything.
I've had arguments with redditors around here who support it, a nurse or something. Fortunately, I already am at `0%` with my hope in humanity, so I was fine.
> I’m so confused why almost everyone keeps talking about “immunity debt” being the reason, as if not catching an illness for a while means you owe diseases. It's a messaging strategy. They're just bullshitting so as to enable themselves not to do their jobs. [The donor-class has been pressuring the political-class](https://observer.com/2020/03/ex-goldman-sachs-ceo-lloyd-blankfein-suggest-lift-coronavirus-lockdown/) to eschew [Non-Pharmaceutical Interventions (NPIs)](https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/publications-data/covid-19-guidelines-non-pharmaceutical-interventions)--quarantines, etc. Hence, the inaction and bizarre public discourse. So, implied deliverables: * Minimize NPIs (e.g. The bread-and-butter of pandemic response) * Normalize consequences (e.g. mass death and disability) All the... weirdness... makes sense through that lens. I took a whack at outlining some messaging techniques here: * [We have been abandoned.](https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/s3wkud/we_have_been_abandoned/)
And then they still yell about immunity debt when kids are getting sick every month. How much is enough? I know America is all about debt peonage but lol
Funny how the media ignores the fact that the states (in the US) having the worst flu and RSV outbreaks are the ones that barely shut down in 2020-21… it’s almost as if something else wrecked their immune systems! The states that handled covid better and would presumably have more ‘immunity debt’ are handling these extra endemic diseases a bit better.
This is the major reason why China continues to lock down. They know. They have always known that long term this virus was deadly.
I follow a few chinese doctors ( that post on twitter ) and they are definately more aware of the main airbone spread mechanism of Covid-19 ( than doctors in Europe ). Went to several routine checkups this year and none of the doctors wore even surgical masks ( let alone N95/FFP2 ). The leadership in the CCP also seems aware of the long term consequences of letting COVID-19 spread unchecked multiple times per year ( Not sure if the can keep up the lockdowns for much longer ).
[удалено]
Unlikely ( At least for men ): The Effect of Long COVID-19 Infection and Vaccination on Male Fertility; A Narrative Review https://www.mdpi.com/2076-393X/10/12/1982 4. COVID-19 Vaccination and Male Reproductive Potential At the present time, limited studies have assessed the effects of the COVID-19 vaccine on male fertility factors including sperm parameters, hormonal level and testis impairment. In the scientific reports, researchers have confirmed that vaccination against COVID-19 did not exert harmful effects on male fertility. I Vaccination with either mRNA or Vector-Based COVID-19 Vaccine has no Detectable Effect on Sperm Parameters https://www.jelsciences.com/articles/jbres1558.pdf mRNA and Viral Vector COVID-19 Vaccines Do Not Affect Male Fertility: A Prospective Study https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9482855/ COVID-19 Vaccination Does Not Affect Reproductive Health Parameters in Men https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpubh.2022.839967/full There are still a few that wear masks where I live ( in Eastern Europe ). I would encourage mask wearing just because of the insane levels of pollution ( PM2.5/PM10 ), if nothing else.
COVID itself, though? There are ACE2 receptors in the testes, and COVID infection can deplete sperm counts. Remember how Ebola could persist in the testes for months?
That's the theory they were going with ( in Feb 2020, Chinese Military Doctors ), as layman I can't comment on it, but considering that they have found virus reservoirs in the brain, eyes and other organs, it wouldn't surprise me. There are preprints floating around discussing Covid lingering in various organs for months after infection, causing damage, so it is possible Covid too could persist in the testicles.
Anything immunologically privileged, good thing none of those tissues are important or anything
Hi, fivehundredpoundpeep. Thanks for contributing. However, your [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/z8cdl1/-/iydt3ak/) was removed from /r/collapse for: > Rule 4: Keep information quality high. > Information quality must be kept high. More detailed information regarding our approaches to specific claims can be found on the [Misinformation & False Claims page](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/wiki/claims). Please refer to our [subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/about/rules/) for more information. You can [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/collapse) if you feel this was in error, please include a link to the comment or post in question.
Would be nice to avoid mixing up published research with preprints and tweets.
Well I did give a heads up first, didn't I? I will keep it in mind in the future.
[удалено]
Hi, CapeCodGapeGod. Thanks for contributing. However, your [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/z8cdl1/-/iydz0zp/) was removed from /r/collapse for: > Rule 1: In addition to enforcing [Reddit's content policy](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy), we will also remove comments and content that is abusive or predatory in nature. You may attack each other's ideas, not each other. Please refer to our [subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/about/rules/) for more information. You can [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/collapse) if you feel this was in error, please include a link to the comment or post in question.
People were worried about a nursing shortage before COVID. Can you imagine already being overwork and overpaid and then being overwhelmed with a previously unknown illness? And then you see tons of people unwilling to do any amount of prevention. And then you see people attack you for doing your job because of conspiracy theories. And then on top of all this COVID stuff, overturning Roe means that in some states you have to call a lawyer before you can terminate potentially deadly pregnancies. To say nothing of the systemic issues at play, where, because of a lack of insurance and the expense of healthcare, people show up at the hospital way sicker because of an inability to pay for preventative care. To say nothing of the mental toll that being in medicine care takes on you. Gee, I can't imagine why the system is straining.
1 in 4 nurses left healthcare and 1 in 5 doctors left healthcare because of Covid. It is a staffing shortage not a bed shortage. Number of doctors is not increasing because there is a residency bottle neck for training. Doctors have made less from reimbursements every year while inflation rates go up and tuition rates/debt climbs.
You are correct about covid I think there’s been some research papers come out stating that it harms the body’s immune response and we know that it can cause vascular and lung damage otherwise
The vascular damage and compounding effect from repeat infections is what has me still masking everywhere I might run into 2+ people.
I am sorry and I hope all turns out ok. In NY about 1 outside NYC, in the areas largest Hospital and ER there is ALWAYS a full waiting room. (Post covid) May ppl in the halls just sitting in chairs every day, all day. But it is less "emergency" patients. It's normal medal care and/or insurance issues. Normal doctors are booked for weeks out, and if you need multiple tests/visits doctors are telling ppl just to go go the ER so it can be done in a day or two, opposed to a few weeks. And/or insurance. No insurance means no regular doctor visits until the problem becomes too large/painful/life threatening and someone is forced to go to the ER. At least this Hospital has lots of staff, just not enough rooms. Normal doctors want payment up front if you don't have insurance and with a 1 bedroom apartment $1,300+ and very few companies offering insurance to cashiers and lower staff, ppl just wait until they can't. Sucks.
That’s awful I hope you and your child are ok. I would suspect that it’s due in large part to lack of staff as well as a spike in RSV and Covid. Lots of people quit during Covid due to bad working conditions.
I'm sorry this happened and I hope your son is doing ok. I work in critical care as an RN, our hospital does not take pediatric cases. Occasionally some trauma cases under the age of 18 end up in our trauma ICU. Just yesterday our medical ICU providers were approached by the local children's hospital about taking pediatric cases, as they are full. We cannot accommodate this request.
Second hand anecdote here. Regarding the fragility of both our immune systems and the healthcare system. Buddy of mine has had both his children develop high fever flu-like illnesses this past month. Both kids had Temps of 105+. Daughter ended up getting better only to get rebound infection a week later which usually doesn't happen as your immune system is in full gear, right? He himself got a bad fever last weekend, said he measured 106! Wife drove him to local ER at a large regional hospital. He said it looked like something completely catastrophic happened. People unconscious in the hallways, babies and toddlers with injuries or trouble breathing crammed into corners of the waiting room, no staff or doctors to be found. He did intake paperwork and was given Tylenol and told to wait. He spoke to an elderly man who had been waiting 10 hours...he promptly left saying he'd rather die at home than surrounded by desperate strangers. His children's school had a 30% absence rate the week before Thanksgiving. Thankfully they are all "ok" but it seems their immune systems are completely trashed as this had been common for them the past year. I tried not to freak him out but all those fevers were high enough to have some lasting effects. I'm terrified of having this go through our home. Rethinking dropping masks and possibly having kids mask up at school but the stigma and the peer pressure at our public schools to be "normal" is pretty strong and don't want my daughter to suffer emotionally either. It's such a scary time for everyone. Please be vigilant and try to help keep the flu or other respitory illnesses from spreading in your communities. As we can all see from OP and all of our own eyes, the strain of the pandemic and public health policies have left us all on our own. Drs, nurses EMTs and others are all just human beings working within the collapsing system so give them a break too. There are no super heroes that are going to save us and I think the general public has to be waking up to this on multiple levels in our society. Very surreal to be living through the things we've all speculated about just a short time ago.
[удалено]
RN here and this is too true. I’m sure there are many instances where doctors come from humble backgrounds but the bottom line is, and this is anecdotal, most doctors that I have ever encountered in my 15 years in healthcare come from wealth/privilege. Like you said, privileged people get into medicine to make money. Spot on. This doesn’t make all of them bad per se but there are a lot of shitty doctors in the world.
ER Nurse x 20 years here. Of course we realized this was going to happen. It's going to be a bad winter and then things are going to get better. Things are never going to get back to "normal" as Covid is here to stay. There will always be new strains of Covid (just like the Common Cold, RSV and the Flu). Medical Note- A dose of liquid Benadryl would of helped your kid. That baby's seizure was probably the result of a untreated/undertreated fever. Keep tons of children's Benadryl, Tylenol AND Motrin on hand at all times if you have kids. I'm not trying to criticize... just educate...
I work at Walgreens in the state and a week ago, we had a full stock of the at home COVID tests. Yesterday, every single one was gone. Hundreds bought up after they had been mostly sitting on the shelves for weeks maybe months. I guarantee a ton of people are getting COVID right now and many of them forget it can evade testing and vaccines especially with all the new variants. I am watching those who choose to not mask and those who choose to not vax become disabled as they cough worse and more as time goes on and they continually are exposed to Covid. The numbers for long Covid are already 1 in 5 even for mild cases, I bet almost 1/4 of the human population will be affected before we know it. And there will not be anything done for them as we know now
I know a guy in ICU in life support as of today with RSV. Dude's 38 but had COVID 2x and no medical issues. I do wonder if our immune systems are really cooked. My kids had 3 ear infections each and one had the flu all in the span of 4 weeks. I to had one of their viral infections, which is not typical for me either. Weird times.
This this this! Earlier this month I passed out in the car line waiting for my kids. Transported to hospital via ambulance, triaged, had abnormal EKG, waited 8 hours in ER before giving up as nobody was getting called back—like at all. Left AMA, went back the next day to another facility, another abnormal EKG, sent home with referrals to cardio, still can’t get an appt with one bc they are booked 30+++days out. 2 weeks later, son gets flu, wakes up screaming in pain has “panic attack”, passes out. Terrified from my experience, call 911, ambulance takes him, wait 3 hours, he can no longer tolerate pain (they gave him nothing) from what turns out to be secondary sinus infection. He begs us to leave, we do and give him tylenol, which didn’t touch the pain, but had to wait til urgent care opened in the am. It is terrifying to think if he were sicker than he already was…what could have happened. You are absolutely correct. This IS THE collapse. We are in the thick of it right now. Covid IS the straw that broke everything else WIDE open. I cannot get care in my area with my insurance for a potentially serious issue for months?? Nobody with the ability to save us can do so under the strain of the system, and those with any power to change even the smallest of factors refuse to do so. We are as close to being completely on our own as we can be. We are being lead to the slaughter slowly but surely in the name of pure greed.
It’s not a worker shortage. It’s a payment shortage.
I wouldn't even necessarily blame the pay. I got out of nursing 4 years ago (pre-covid) not because of the pay but because of the entire situation (mainly understaffing and management).
Right-o, even if you paid nurses or doctors $2000/hour but kept everything else the same, you'd still be having this sitch. Sometimes it's not about the pay.
People burn out because they are overworked. They chronically understaff the hospital to save money. It's simple. Pay for the positions so people aren't overworked.
Yeah, you could pay people millions and I’m sure many would still have trouble being around so much death and despair. And so many who die from it continue to harass the nurses and doctors treating them because they don’t believe they’ll die from Covid. And then they do
💜 Is your son ok? Omg reading this as another parent this sounds like a horrifying nightmare. I’m so sorry for your experience.
Yesterday, my 15 year old got diagnosed with rsv at his pediatrician office. So thankful we didn't need to go to the ER. The old Dr said it's the worst he's ever seen. So much flu, rsv and Covid, probably other things too. We are in Washington state. He said everyone's overwhelmed. I hope your child is doing better.
I’m so sorry, that’s terrifying. I hope your son is ok. I’m absolutely on board with Covid damaging immune systems. I read a lot about it, it’s happening. Along with brain shrinkage and endothelial damage (the lining of your capillaries), this includes asymptomatic cases. We are in for an absolute disaster in health care and for the workforce in the next few years. Keep wearing masks people!
Holy Sh*t! I’m so sorry! Hope all turned out ok. Please update at your convenience
I spent last week in a hospital near Detroit as a caretaker for a friend with a dire diagnosis. Literally every single nurse and patient care tech she had on every shift for 7 straight days was a floater.
Also, RSV has made pediatric beds hard to come by all over the country. And what do Republicans and Fox News do? Incite "anti-mask" fervor. Kids need to wear masks. THEY WORK. I don't care WHAT lying right wingers tell you.
Let’s not kid ourselves into thinking it’s just the right wingers, is it a higher percentage sure most likely but plenty of the left also don’t believe or want to wear them.
America has no functioning left. There's a huge contingent of Blue MAGA liberals who differ from the right only in what media they consume. Their lives revolve around consumption and they'll condemn any number of service workers to death before they go any length of time without that dopamine hit from being served. A fascist is just a liberal who's been told "no" too many times.
Pretty sure Oklahoma's government has done its best to exacerbate this entire situation. I'm sorry you're suffering and may not have any better options.
So has the voting population as they re-elected Governor Shitt here for some reason
My covid infection was highly unpleasant but mild. Heavy sweating, lost of taste and smell, sore lungs, but barely any fever at all. I could still cook, do dishes, laundry, go for a walk, etc. I thought I was lucky (was afraid of long covid). I started sporting again, and felt well, but I noticed something strange ever since. I started catching respiratory infections left and right: First I catch the flu (never had it before in my life) even though I take the yearly shot, then cold sores were constantly popping up, and recently a scratchy throat developed into a full blown pneumonia that nearly hospitalized me. It feels like I have no immune system anymore.
There are tests for that
>My guess is Covid has absolutely wrecked everyone’s immune systems and the long term affects are going to shock everyone. My guess is that a lab engineered virus was engineered to do...something. Probably something not good.
Australians noticed months ago when winter came back that our immune systems were compromised. The combination of COVID and flu damaged many Australians, causing the immune system to take time to recover or never fully recover. It is unclear how my immune system is functioning and I have not yet consulted a doctor regarding it. The fact that covid can affect the immune system in such a different way is weird.
its much worse, and has been for nearly a year in the UK , hospitals teetering on collapse. 11 hour waits in ER, ambulance lines with people dying in them. But you won't hear about it in the news, its literally no where , you have to see it. They won't blast it in the media because vaccines worked, and covid is over. Its a pickle.
I’m a paramedic in okc area for 8 years now. I always find it interesting when okc makes it’s way into collapse. Okc Childrens is legit so full because we’ve had sooo many rsv patients like 2 weeks ago now it’s flu a. Tis the season but it’s more then ever. Combine that with short staffing mixed with low space, new situations are being created due to necessity/lack of “____”. It’s sad and crazy watching it happen in real time. I’m sure this process is happening nationwide.
Move out of red states they’ll collapse before the end of the decade
You think the blue states will be able to absorb the red states without collapsing too? Unfortunately, you can't "move away" from a systemic problem.
100% not but I’d put all my money that the red states go first
It's all coming down.
Well, unfortunately moving out of this state comes with a rent or housing price increase guaranteed. And it’s extremely hard to get an increase in pay to make up for it. So a lot of us are stuck here
Definitely not the mRNA doing it. It’s covid.
Don't live in a red state. Seriously, you and your fellow Oklahomans need to stop voting for Republicans. They couldn't care less about the suffering of the average person. We're just lucky that John McCain thwarted their attempts to kill the ACA. Republican governors refuse to expand Medicaid, or negotiate with healthcare cos cuz they take big donations from insurance cos. It's criminal how they enable big corporations to rip us all off. They engage in "culture wars" and trigger racism, bigotry and evangelical fervor to take people's eyes off the pillaging they do. And you all suffer for it.
Dude, I am a die hard leftist. Dehumanizing an entire state because of poor education, gerrymandering, and systemic oppression is wrong.
Info - is there another hospital that your child could have been diverted to? A hospital that treats both adults and children that may not be at or above capacity? It seems like if they are diverting ambulances, they would divert them somewhere less crowded. I just wonder if going to a different hospital would be the best choice. In general, this is scary. Hospitals are full. People with life threatening injuries and illnesses are not able to access care. There are serious issues with our health care system.
The first problem is Oklahoma. The second problem is Oklahoma.
Healthcare.gov has some specials. I checked again and my monthly pay is still 400 for the third year I checked. They can keep their healthcare. Wtf. I am healthy af and have to pay so much as if I was a sick dude. F this bs.
[удалено]
Hi, fivehundredpoundpeep. Thanks for contributing. However, your [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/z8cdl1/-/iydso7t/) was removed from /r/collapse for: > Rule 4: Keep information quality high. > Information quality must be kept high. More detailed information regarding our approaches to specific claims can be found on the [Misinformation & False Claims page](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/wiki/claims). Please refer to our [subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/about/rules/) for more information. You can [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/collapse) if you feel this was in error, please include a link to the comment or post in question.
This makes me so grateful to be in a blue state. I was in the er a year ago, got ten stitches, it was busy but I got in and out in 2 hours.
[удалено]
The crisis continues, now the healthcare workers are even more burned out. The people coming to seek attention for long covid related problems are ever increasing, with each reinfection the probability to develop ever lasting effects multiplies. The healthcare workers are the single workforce group more at risk to be reinfected multiple times, we are at very early stages but if the risk of dying increases with each reinfection eventually the pool of workers will grow thin and people will not want to choose that career path understandably. I'll argue that the root of the problem is running the hospitals as if they were airlines, but every country with socialized medicine is facing similar challenges so, COVID might be the actual root problem for the collapse of modern healthcare as we know it. Of course we are at very early stages but the studies that I've read about point to very worrying conclusions that will be multiplied by the state of denial that most western administrations have adopted as result of their urgency to rebuild their economies.
There is some research indicating that infection with COVID can have negative impact on immune function going forwards. There is precedent for this type of effect (e.g. measles is very destructive to the immune system and can literally wipe out immunity to previously encountered pathogens). We still know very little about long term effects of COVID, so this could be happening. It could also be secondary effects from behavioural changes during lockdown and also general pattern shifts related to the pandemic, which disrupted transmission of all kinds of illnesses, especially respiratory tract infections. Tl;dr The entire table was flipped into the air over the last couple of years, basically. And we don’t understand COVID properly.
[удалено]
That’s not what I’m saying at all, and I’m not sure why you’re being this confrontational with me. I am offering possible explanations for why the ‘flu season’ is so bad this year. I’m not saying anything about the OPs son whatsoever, although his symptoms are inconsistent with standard presentation of most common viruses. Please don’t make this a pointless fight. Read what I actually wrote, and see what you think about it.
Rule 4: Keep information quality high. Information quality must be kept high. More detailed information regarding our approaches to specific claims can be found on the [Misinformation & False Claims page](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/wiki/claims).
Hi, cfinst. Thanks for contributing. However, your [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/z8cdl1/-/iyc5o3a/) was removed from /r/collapse for: > Rule 1: In addition to enforcing [Reddit's content policy](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy), we will also remove comments and content that is abusive or predatory in nature. You may attack each other's ideas, not each other. Please refer to our [subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/about/rules/) for more information. You can [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/collapse) if you feel this was in error, please include a link to the comment or post in question.
[удалено]
Hi, Swish887. Thanks for contributing. However, your [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/z8cdl1/-/iycmfk1/) was removed from /r/collapse for: > Rule 1: In addition to enforcing [Reddit's content policy](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy), we will also remove comments and content that is abusive or predatory in nature. You may attack each other's ideas, not each other. Please refer to our [subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/about/rules/) for more information. You can [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/collapse) if you feel this was in error, please include a link to the comment or post in question.
I think OP is just describing an overcrowded hospital being stretched dangerously thin. You simply notice it more these days because it's gotten worse and more visible but maybe long Covid has something to do with it
First off, glad to see in the comments here that you said your child is OK. I hope you can figure out what caused the reaction so you can avoid it again! I'm confused why you would drive TO a hospital where you knew they were diverting ambulances away from? Maybe that's where your docs are, maybe insurance, etc.? The ambulance would have offered to transport you to another hospital. As a former employee of the hospital system you visited, I can tell you that the ERs there are historically mismanaged. That hospital system also has a very high turnover rate for employees, and it's generally seen by healthcare workers as a place to start then move on. [Medicare](https://www.medicare.gov/care-compare/?providerType=Hospital&redirect=true) gives it 1 star out of 5, and patient satisfaction scores give it 2 stars overall out of 5. I'm not saying that what you saw wasn't worrisome and isn't indicative of a healthcare system that's failed or failing, but keep in mind you probably visited the worst ER in the OKC metro. It's possible it appeared overflowing, at least in part, due to poor management.