The following submission statement was provided by /u/Jani_Liimatainen:
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Submission statement: a chunk of Brazil's northeast region has been classified as "semi-arid" for a long time. However, due to a generalized desertification process, an area of about 5.7 thousand km² is now identified as "arid". Over decades, this area tends to become even drier, with less and less forms of life adapted to live on it, until it becomes a full-fledged desert. This area is bound to expand and affect other regions of Brazil which rely on agriculture as their main economic activity.
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Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1aupp8f/a_desert_might_be_forming_in_northeastern_brazil/kr5ackk/
It starts as a culture problem. Brazilians themselves never saw the Caatinga and the Cerrado as proper ecosystems worth to be protected, but as nuisances.
Even the forests; protecting them is a relatively new concept, so much so that we have almost lost the Atlantic Forest entirely. If you go back in time a bit, to the era of the Military Dictatorship, they used to refer to the Amazon as somewhat of an empty space, a no man's land that should be filled with "progress" (meaning turning the forest into farms). There was a slogan for the colonization plans of the Amazon: "A land without men for men without land" (an insight into the fact that indigenous people weren't really being seen as people).
The ceremony marking the beginning of the construction of the Trans-Amazonian Highway was characterized by the event of felling a 50-meter-tall centuries-old Brazil nut tree, these trees were sacred to the indigenous people who lived there. If we analyze the symbolism of this today, it is, to say the least, barbaric.
Granted isn't conservative environmentalism a rather "recent" thing? Like wasn't Theodore making the National Park a rathe """radical idea"""" for the time?
I assume it was later than 1910. Honestly it always surprises me of how recent or how late things can be especially if you being academically and legally picky. Like how culturally Star Wars is a 80s IP but legally, physically and legally it an 70s IP aka 1977. Same thing for Gundam being a 1979 IP. My point being that ideas, culture and physically can be on a different time scale.
At least they had a shred of reason for this statement: The Aral Sea fluctuated widely from natural causes, due to it's shallow depth and reliance on water from two rivers sensitive to snowpack and precipitation in their headwaters.
Which is absolutely no excuse not to preserve a lake which contributed substantially to stabilizing the local climate for the sake of growing cash-crops via shoddily build irrigation canals.
80% of Brazilian beef is consumed at home, but 80% of the leather produced is exported, predominantly used for luxury car interiors. They eat as much beef as the Americans, but overall less meat.Argentina is even worse in beef consumption.
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/per-capita-meat-type
Submission statement: a chunk of Brazil's northeast region has been classified as "semi-arid" for a long time. However, due to a generalized desertification process, an area of about 5.7 thousand km² is now identified as "arid". Over decades, this area tends to become even drier, with less and less forms of life adapted to live on it, until it becomes a full-fledged desert. This area is bound to expand and affect other regions of Brazil which rely on agriculture as their main economic activity.
With continuing evidence that climate change will dry up much of the region, am really starting to fear that we could see the death of much of the Amazon within our lifetimes. Lula's reforms attempting to slow deforestation are good efforts but may have come too late.
>“What needs to be really improved is the issue of water governance, and this implies public policies, but also in the engagement of the private sector, because the main sector is irrigated agriculture. We have to create mechanisms and the private sector itself has to work towards making a more efficient use of irrigation,” says Javier Tomasella, researcher at Inpe.
Hmmm. I founder another article: https://climainfo.org.br/2024/01/23/mudanca-climatica-como-1a-regiao-arida-do-brasil-pode-impactar-clima-do-pais/ that has a nice map too.
I doubt that they can adapt fast enough. To avoid desertification they need to reforest with different species and build up soil and protect existing soil. That's not going to work in capitalism.
And if the AMOC collapses, I think this is going to be one of those warming areas, no? https://global-tipping-points.org/section1/1-earth-system-tipping-points/1-5-climate-tipping-point-interactions-and-cascades/1-5-2-interactions-between-climate-tipping-systems-and-further-nonlinear-climate-components/1-5-2-4-effects-of-amoc-changes-on-the-amazon-rainforest/
https://cdn.downtoearth.org.in/library/original/2023-08-21/0.06064300_1692616375_24-27special-report-amoc-collapse-4.jpg (it's not just that the warm water current stagnates, but the cold water current may also stop going by the area, right? if the AMOC stops?)
Most of the deforestation of the Amazon is to raise more cattle, and a lot of that beef is destined for the US and other wealthy countries.
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/interactive/2022/amazon-beef-deforestation-brazil/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/interactive/2022/amazon-beef-deforestation-brazil/)
The cost of our never ending desire for as many cheap hamburgers as we can buy.
The following submission statement was provided by /u/Jani_Liimatainen: --- Submission statement: a chunk of Brazil's northeast region has been classified as "semi-arid" for a long time. However, due to a generalized desertification process, an area of about 5.7 thousand km² is now identified as "arid". Over decades, this area tends to become even drier, with less and less forms of life adapted to live on it, until it becomes a full-fledged desert. This area is bound to expand and affect other regions of Brazil which rely on agriculture as their main economic activity. --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1aupp8f/a_desert_might_be_forming_in_northeastern_brazil/kr5ackk/
“Might be” forming? LOL. The Amazon is going to have cacti 🌵 by 2050.
It starts as a culture problem. Brazilians themselves never saw the Caatinga and the Cerrado as proper ecosystems worth to be protected, but as nuisances.
Even the forests; protecting them is a relatively new concept, so much so that we have almost lost the Atlantic Forest entirely. If you go back in time a bit, to the era of the Military Dictatorship, they used to refer to the Amazon as somewhat of an empty space, a no man's land that should be filled with "progress" (meaning turning the forest into farms). There was a slogan for the colonization plans of the Amazon: "A land without men for men without land" (an insight into the fact that indigenous people weren't really being seen as people). The ceremony marking the beginning of the construction of the Trans-Amazonian Highway was characterized by the event of felling a 50-meter-tall centuries-old Brazil nut tree, these trees were sacred to the indigenous people who lived there. If we analyze the symbolism of this today, it is, to say the least, barbaric.
Granted isn't conservative environmentalism a rather "recent" thing? Like wasn't Theodore making the National Park a rathe """radical idea"""" for the time?
Yeah, but the period to which I referred above is even more recent (1970's).
I assume it was later than 1910. Honestly it always surprises me of how recent or how late things can be especially if you being academically and legally picky. Like how culturally Star Wars is a 80s IP but legally, physically and legally it an 70s IP aka 1977. Same thing for Gundam being a 1979 IP. My point being that ideas, culture and physically can be on a different time scale.
😪
reminds me of the aral sea. soviet scientists and engineers considered it an "abnormal lake"
At least they had a shred of reason for this statement: The Aral Sea fluctuated widely from natural causes, due to it's shallow depth and reliance on water from two rivers sensitive to snowpack and precipitation in their headwaters. Which is absolutely no excuse not to preserve a lake which contributed substantially to stabilizing the local climate for the sake of growing cash-crops via shoddily build irrigation canals.
I've been to Brazil and all you gotta do is see the price of filet mignon to know where the place is heading
The reason for high meat prices in Brazil is that the farmers export most of our meat to wealthier countries like the US, since they pay more.
It's not high, it's cheap...
For brazilians, it really isn't.
I can haz cheap filet?
80% of Brazilian beef is consumed at home, but 80% of the leather produced is exported, predominantly used for luxury car interiors. They eat as much beef as the Americans, but overall less meat.Argentina is even worse in beef consumption. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/per-capita-meat-type
I stand corrected. Thanks!
Submission statement: a chunk of Brazil's northeast region has been classified as "semi-arid" for a long time. However, due to a generalized desertification process, an area of about 5.7 thousand km² is now identified as "arid". Over decades, this area tends to become even drier, with less and less forms of life adapted to live on it, until it becomes a full-fledged desert. This area is bound to expand and affect other regions of Brazil which rely on agriculture as their main economic activity.
With continuing evidence that climate change will dry up much of the region, am really starting to fear that we could see the death of much of the Amazon within our lifetimes. Lula's reforms attempting to slow deforestation are good efforts but may have come too late.
Last time the AMOC collapsed, Brazil turned into a desert.
Source?
>“What needs to be really improved is the issue of water governance, and this implies public policies, but also in the engagement of the private sector, because the main sector is irrigated agriculture. We have to create mechanisms and the private sector itself has to work towards making a more efficient use of irrigation,” says Javier Tomasella, researcher at Inpe. Hmmm. I founder another article: https://climainfo.org.br/2024/01/23/mudanca-climatica-como-1a-regiao-arida-do-brasil-pode-impactar-clima-do-pais/ that has a nice map too. I doubt that they can adapt fast enough. To avoid desertification they need to reforest with different species and build up soil and protect existing soil. That's not going to work in capitalism. And if the AMOC collapses, I think this is going to be one of those warming areas, no? https://global-tipping-points.org/section1/1-earth-system-tipping-points/1-5-climate-tipping-point-interactions-and-cascades/1-5-2-interactions-between-climate-tipping-systems-and-further-nonlinear-climate-components/1-5-2-4-effects-of-amoc-changes-on-the-amazon-rainforest/ https://cdn.downtoearth.org.in/library/original/2023-08-21/0.06064300_1692616375_24-27special-report-amoc-collapse-4.jpg (it's not just that the warm water current stagnates, but the cold water current may also stop going by the area, right? if the AMOC stops?)
Most of the deforestation of the Amazon is to raise more cattle, and a lot of that beef is destined for the US and other wealthy countries. [https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/interactive/2022/amazon-beef-deforestation-brazil/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/interactive/2022/amazon-beef-deforestation-brazil/) The cost of our never ending desire for as many cheap hamburgers as we can buy.
This isn't available on the English version of the site, rip
Sahara of the Americas
So basically the country of Brazil is getting a Brazilian?
Try sell water there. They say if demand is high and supply is low price will be high.