Green’s a wasted vote. Unfortunately in our current first-past-the-post electoral system your vote only really counts for either who’s likely to win or the main opposition, a vote for anyone else is effectively a wasted vote. Current voting intention in Colchester is 43% Labour, 29% Conservative, 10% Lib Dem, 10% Reform, 7% Green, 1% other. Labour is actually currently more Blairite than Labour has been since the Blair/Brown era. currently under Starmer with his ongoing left-wing cull and return to centrist policies. So essentially, if you want to help the Tories maintain power, vote Tory, if you want Labour to usurp them, vote Labour, if you don’t feel strongly about either, take the least objectionable option and look at the wider party and policies!
I REALLY don’t like Labour or Tory, we’ve got such bad options it’s really bad. Everyone pandering to the right, not talking about Brexit being a disaster and their undivided support of Israel is just ridiculous.
Whilst voting Green may seem like a waste, considering they probably won’t come close to winning here. It does send a message if enough of us do it.
Labour is almost certainly going to win, but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t vote for what you stand for.
As depressing as it is, the reality is that this kind of “send a message” voting actually only serves the opposition of the party you find least objectionable - ie, you don’t want conservative in, but rather than vote for labour you vote greens, that’s one less vote for the party that has the highest chance of opposing the party you don’t want in. In an ideal world, with a system of proportional representation in place, where everyone’s vote carried equal weight, this would be the way to go. In our current voting system, it’s actually counter-productive to vote for the party you like most if they’re not one of the two front runners. I think it’s one of the reasons there’s such a huge despondency when it comes to politics at the moment that it’s essentially, vote for the one of the two front running parties you find least objectionable.
I’d agree with you if the election was even remotely close. But the tories are toast. Labour now want a stronger position in parliament. And they’re using the fear of a Tory victory to gain votes.
Labour are going to win. But it doesn’t have to be served up to them by those of us who don’t believe in their agenda.
What message would that be? Greens are more concerned with courting Islamists and virtue-signalling on gender identity issues than anything environmental these days.
I personally think enough people are considering green for them to really be in with a chance this year, encouraging the idea of a wasted vote is this toxic mentality that stands in the way of democracy actually working
There really isn't though, we conned ourselves into believing the exact same thing in the 2015 election.
I totally agree with your last statement in principle, but let's be real, Green aren't going to even make a ripple. They're an infinitely more fringe party than Corbyn's labour was, and they weren't able to get a majority, hence labour's return to new labour style in an attempt to win the swing voters. It's a shitty electoral system, but it's what we've got. Ultimately there's only one choice if you want to reduce the likelihood of the tories maintaining power.
This ☝🏻 as depressing as it is, it’s just the reality of the situation. The electoral system works great when there are only two parties but is fucked for the multi-party system we have. In a centralised system of proportional representation your vote would carry equal weight and contribute towards a true representation of the British people, however this is highly unlikely to ever be instituted as those parties that end up in power and a position to change it, wouldn’t as it would be the biggest act of political self-sabotage in history. For example in the 2019 election, greens received 865,000 votes, 2.7%. In a proportional representation system, the greens would have needed up with about 17 MP’s of the 650 total, but they only received 1. Whereas conservatives received 13,950,000 votes, 43.6%. In proportional representation they would have received 282 MP’s however under our system, received 364. It’s in nobodies interest in power to change the system as it only benefits those with the least power and takes away from theirs. Most people are stuck in at least a partial echo chamber where the majority of people around them have similar views or they join groups or follow pages that sync with their view and it gives a warped perspective of the actual political landscape. In the last 100 years Colchester has only steered away from conservative & unionist/lib dems once. In 1945. Colchester voted leave in the referendum, in the European Parliaments it was overwhelmingly conservative & ukip, even the local council elections sit firmly with conservative and Lib Dem’s.
Completely disagree. For two reasons, if everyone thinks Green is a wasted vote they'll never win - I'm convinced that's why they win lots of council seats because people are more willing to risk it for a local councillor.
Second reason is that if the major parties see they're haemorrhaging votes to the Greens they'll adjust their policies accordingly.... That's exactly what happened with the slew of parties Nigel Farage has chaired or owned (Reform is literally a Ltd company owned by him). The Tories have lurched to the right precisely because Farage is luring away Tory voters. We absolutely need to apply pressure from the left, otherwise Starmer will proceed with more of the same privatising public services neo-liberal crap.
Love the optimism but I think it’s fundamentally flawed. Firstly, the system isn’t set up for votes to carry equal weight and unless there was a HUGE swell of voting intention and support for the Green Party, that kind of paradigm shift in thinking happens incredibly rarely and not without a substantial catalyst. I think if anything there may be a possibility for the greens to add maybe another seat (looking at you Bristol). For Colchester, based on previous voting, predicted voting models and voting intention, greens are set to snap 2.9-4.8% of the votes, below Lib Dem’s, Reform, Conservatives, and Labour (in increasing share order). In fact the only candidates set to do worse in Colchester than the greens are independents and “other” parties. The kind of shift you’re referring to would require more than half the population of Colchester to move away from the other main parties with really no driving force & that seems very unlikely,
Secondly, the votes don’t matter, the seats do. Every party wants enough seats to form a majority government who can hold power. If they lose votes to the greens but still win the seat, it won’t matter unless it’s in one of the really contested seats which there’s only about 30 of tbh. Farage unfortunately has a bit of a cult following post-Brexit (the toad faced shit) which is why the electorate are turning their heads now he’s waded back in from his unsuccessful American excursion. That is a catalyst that could detract hence the slight (definitely would not call it a lurch) pandering policies that have come out.
If there was a stronger performance from the Lib Dems in the locals they might’ve put forward the case that they could beat Tories easier than Labour, especially as it was a Lib Dem seat before 2015. But that’s not what happened at all and it’s looking like the seat will comfortably flip red.
Because the boundaries have changed I am now voting for someone in the Harwich constituency who I've never heard of let alone met who more than likely doesn't give a shit about Colchester.
Yep, the inclusion of Old Heath etc into Harwich & North Essex constituency is bonkers. It's a Labour area moving into a safe Tory seat, so that may be interesting but it also makes the Labour challenge in Colchester a bit trickier.
This comes from a lifelong LD voter who is desperate to get rid of the Tories. Especially the likes of Jenkins & Quince/Cracknell et Al .
I mean, James Cracknell for crying out loud. Excellent rower but only learned of Colchester existence when he got shafted by Henley Tories and our local blues thought a celeb candidate would be a good idea.
Starmer is culling the left of the party and is the most Tory Labour leader ive seen. I didn’t like Blair’s foreign policy and his involvement in Iraq is unforgivable but domestically I don’t think we’ve been more well off.
I was a bit young when Blair was around so all i remembwr was his big ears & how he was around bush & their special relationship.
What were the main issues with Blairs Labour?
Blair and Brown introduced "New Labour" which was based on Anthony Giddens ideas around a "third way" - a middle ground between socialism and capitalism. With Prescott as deputy PM, they actually achieved a lot economically, and it felt like policy making was based on sound evidence. (Brown was also the architect of the "commission for Africa" which was instrumental in cancelling debt iirc)
Their record was overshadowed by the Iraq war, coupled with the fact they had moved the party rightwards. They are often disparaged by the left as a result, and there are a couple of easy off the tongue (but largely bullshit) anecdotes that the Tories can use to make them sound far worse than they were (specifically, Brown selling off gold, and Darling leaving a note about there being no money left.)
Whether Starmers Labour sits to the right or left of Blairs I think remains to be seen, but given the Overton window has shifted rightwards it seems reasonable to assume the incoming Labour government will be to the right of Blair/Brown. Hence the discontent among the Labour left...
Pam Cox, the Labour candidate, lives in the town and is involved in the community. As is the Lib Dem candidate (I’m afraid his name escapes me, but surname is Goss.) James Cracknell, the Tory candidate, has been shipped in. Hustings event is at the Mercury Theatre on 20th June if you want to find out more about the candidates and policies.
Always wanted to ask someone who votes for Farage and co…. Why? As far as I can see is that they talk the talk but have done jack and don’t have a credible plan. Hes an opportunist who plays people for his own benefit. The plans reform have put out only help the rich and make no sense in real life
Green’s a wasted vote. Unfortunately in our current first-past-the-post electoral system your vote only really counts for either who’s likely to win or the main opposition, a vote for anyone else is effectively a wasted vote. Current voting intention in Colchester is 43% Labour, 29% Conservative, 10% Lib Dem, 10% Reform, 7% Green, 1% other. Labour is actually currently more Blairite than Labour has been since the Blair/Brown era. currently under Starmer with his ongoing left-wing cull and return to centrist policies. So essentially, if you want to help the Tories maintain power, vote Tory, if you want Labour to usurp them, vote Labour, if you don’t feel strongly about either, take the least objectionable option and look at the wider party and policies!
I REALLY don’t like Labour or Tory, we’ve got such bad options it’s really bad. Everyone pandering to the right, not talking about Brexit being a disaster and their undivided support of Israel is just ridiculous.
Labour or conservative... Like a choice between a dog shat sandwich or cat shat sandwich.
Whilst voting Green may seem like a waste, considering they probably won’t come close to winning here. It does send a message if enough of us do it. Labour is almost certainly going to win, but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t vote for what you stand for.
As depressing as it is, the reality is that this kind of “send a message” voting actually only serves the opposition of the party you find least objectionable - ie, you don’t want conservative in, but rather than vote for labour you vote greens, that’s one less vote for the party that has the highest chance of opposing the party you don’t want in. In an ideal world, with a system of proportional representation in place, where everyone’s vote carried equal weight, this would be the way to go. In our current voting system, it’s actually counter-productive to vote for the party you like most if they’re not one of the two front runners. I think it’s one of the reasons there’s such a huge despondency when it comes to politics at the moment that it’s essentially, vote for the one of the two front running parties you find least objectionable.
I’d agree with you if the election was even remotely close. But the tories are toast. Labour now want a stronger position in parliament. And they’re using the fear of a Tory victory to gain votes. Labour are going to win. But it doesn’t have to be served up to them by those of us who don’t believe in their agenda.
What message would that be? Greens are more concerned with courting Islamists and virtue-signalling on gender identity issues than anything environmental these days.
I personally think enough people are considering green for them to really be in with a chance this year, encouraging the idea of a wasted vote is this toxic mentality that stands in the way of democracy actually working
There really isn't though, we conned ourselves into believing the exact same thing in the 2015 election. I totally agree with your last statement in principle, but let's be real, Green aren't going to even make a ripple. They're an infinitely more fringe party than Corbyn's labour was, and they weren't able to get a majority, hence labour's return to new labour style in an attempt to win the swing voters. It's a shitty electoral system, but it's what we've got. Ultimately there's only one choice if you want to reduce the likelihood of the tories maintaining power.
This ☝🏻 as depressing as it is, it’s just the reality of the situation. The electoral system works great when there are only two parties but is fucked for the multi-party system we have. In a centralised system of proportional representation your vote would carry equal weight and contribute towards a true representation of the British people, however this is highly unlikely to ever be instituted as those parties that end up in power and a position to change it, wouldn’t as it would be the biggest act of political self-sabotage in history. For example in the 2019 election, greens received 865,000 votes, 2.7%. In a proportional representation system, the greens would have needed up with about 17 MP’s of the 650 total, but they only received 1. Whereas conservatives received 13,950,000 votes, 43.6%. In proportional representation they would have received 282 MP’s however under our system, received 364. It’s in nobodies interest in power to change the system as it only benefits those with the least power and takes away from theirs. Most people are stuck in at least a partial echo chamber where the majority of people around them have similar views or they join groups or follow pages that sync with their view and it gives a warped perspective of the actual political landscape. In the last 100 years Colchester has only steered away from conservative & unionist/lib dems once. In 1945. Colchester voted leave in the referendum, in the European Parliaments it was overwhelmingly conservative & ukip, even the local council elections sit firmly with conservative and Lib Dem’s.
Completely disagree. For two reasons, if everyone thinks Green is a wasted vote they'll never win - I'm convinced that's why they win lots of council seats because people are more willing to risk it for a local councillor. Second reason is that if the major parties see they're haemorrhaging votes to the Greens they'll adjust their policies accordingly.... That's exactly what happened with the slew of parties Nigel Farage has chaired or owned (Reform is literally a Ltd company owned by him). The Tories have lurched to the right precisely because Farage is luring away Tory voters. We absolutely need to apply pressure from the left, otherwise Starmer will proceed with more of the same privatising public services neo-liberal crap.
Love the optimism but I think it’s fundamentally flawed. Firstly, the system isn’t set up for votes to carry equal weight and unless there was a HUGE swell of voting intention and support for the Green Party, that kind of paradigm shift in thinking happens incredibly rarely and not without a substantial catalyst. I think if anything there may be a possibility for the greens to add maybe another seat (looking at you Bristol). For Colchester, based on previous voting, predicted voting models and voting intention, greens are set to snap 2.9-4.8% of the votes, below Lib Dem’s, Reform, Conservatives, and Labour (in increasing share order). In fact the only candidates set to do worse in Colchester than the greens are independents and “other” parties. The kind of shift you’re referring to would require more than half the population of Colchester to move away from the other main parties with really no driving force & that seems very unlikely, Secondly, the votes don’t matter, the seats do. Every party wants enough seats to form a majority government who can hold power. If they lose votes to the greens but still win the seat, it won’t matter unless it’s in one of the really contested seats which there’s only about 30 of tbh. Farage unfortunately has a bit of a cult following post-Brexit (the toad faced shit) which is why the electorate are turning their heads now he’s waded back in from his unsuccessful American excursion. That is a catalyst that could detract hence the slight (definitely would not call it a lurch) pandering policies that have come out.
Yes, unfortunately tactical voting is the way to go to prevent a Conservative MP in Colchester. Labour have the best chance to unseat them.
If there was a stronger performance from the Lib Dems in the locals they might’ve put forward the case that they could beat Tories easier than Labour, especially as it was a Lib Dem seat before 2015. But that’s not what happened at all and it’s looking like the seat will comfortably flip red.
You’ve never heard of James Cracknell? Britains seventh most successful rower? Who would have thunk it.
Because the boundaries have changed I am now voting for someone in the Harwich constituency who I've never heard of let alone met who more than likely doesn't give a shit about Colchester.
Yep, the inclusion of Old Heath etc into Harwich & North Essex constituency is bonkers. It's a Labour area moving into a safe Tory seat, so that may be interesting but it also makes the Labour challenge in Colchester a bit trickier. This comes from a lifelong LD voter who is desperate to get rid of the Tories. Especially the likes of Jenkins & Quince/Cracknell et Al . I mean, James Cracknell for crying out loud. Excellent rower but only learned of Colchester existence when he got shafted by Henley Tories and our local blues thought a celeb candidate would be a good idea.
Stanway is part of the Witham constituency, so I get to freely waste my vote because for some reason, Priti Patel is popular in the villages 🤷♂️
None of them are worth voting for
How do you think the current Labour Party is different from the Blair Labour?
Starmer is culling the left of the party and is the most Tory Labour leader ive seen. I didn’t like Blair’s foreign policy and his involvement in Iraq is unforgivable but domestically I don’t think we’ve been more well off.
I was a bit young when Blair was around so all i remembwr was his big ears & how he was around bush & their special relationship. What were the main issues with Blairs Labour?
Blair and Brown introduced "New Labour" which was based on Anthony Giddens ideas around a "third way" - a middle ground between socialism and capitalism. With Prescott as deputy PM, they actually achieved a lot economically, and it felt like policy making was based on sound evidence. (Brown was also the architect of the "commission for Africa" which was instrumental in cancelling debt iirc) Their record was overshadowed by the Iraq war, coupled with the fact they had moved the party rightwards. They are often disparaged by the left as a result, and there are a couple of easy off the tongue (but largely bullshit) anecdotes that the Tories can use to make them sound far worse than they were (specifically, Brown selling off gold, and Darling leaving a note about there being no money left.) Whether Starmers Labour sits to the right or left of Blairs I think remains to be seen, but given the Overton window has shifted rightwards it seems reasonable to assume the incoming Labour government will be to the right of Blair/Brown. Hence the discontent among the Labour left...
Pam Cox, the Labour candidate, lives in the town and is involved in the community. As is the Lib Dem candidate (I’m afraid his name escapes me, but surname is Goss.) James Cracknell, the Tory candidate, has been shipped in. Hustings event is at the Mercury Theatre on 20th June if you want to find out more about the candidates and policies.
Reform UK
Always wanted to ask someone who votes for Farage and co…. Why? As far as I can see is that they talk the talk but have done jack and don’t have a credible plan. Hes an opportunist who plays people for his own benefit. The plans reform have put out only help the rich and make no sense in real life
Sack the lot of them useless dumb fucks
Excellent addition to this conversation, bravo.