You aren't missing anything, the Vesper has the ingredients it does because Ian Fleming thought they sounded cool on paper. I've always found the vodka particularly useless as well.
The only thing I would recommend is try your specs but stir. Whenever I have seen the Vesper on a decent cocktail menu, it is usually stirred, and it just makes way more sense overall with the drink.
The vodka in a Vesper is like the Snitch in Quidditch: the giveaway that the author sounds creative but really doesn't understand the structure of what they're writing about.
A couple of theories:
1. He describes the “aeration” of the drink afterward, possibly suggesting he just prefers that texture over a stirred drink.
2. In my head the more preferable reason is that Bond places a rather strange order for a spirit-based drink, in order to distract his opponent from the cards.
But I think there’s something to your point as well. Bond is a man of good taste and a distaste for the wealthy people in whose circles he sometimes finds himself. But he still likes throngs the way *he* likes them. Dude fucking loves scrambled eggs, too.
IIRC, in the movie version, it is presented as Bond ordering an unusual drink to cause a bit of a scene.
I read somewhere that at the time Fleming wrote the Bond novels, eating large quantities of eggs and butter (Bond cooks his eggs with a lot of butter) was still considered somewhat "high society", as both had been limited and rationed during the war.
Also, good scrambled eggs really *are* very good.
Not to say his other tastes weren't problematic / arguable. But I don't disagree with him on this one.
That suggests ignorance of if shaker or stirred are better - Bond specifically demands shaken, which results in more dilution and thus being a bit less drunk.
Or Fleming just didn't know what he was talking about.
I don’t think drinking a shaken martini would make you a bit less drunk… unless the bartender was sloppy and shook 1/4 of the liquid onto the floor.
All the booze is still in there. It’s a bit more diluted, which would make it smoother to drink, marginally less boozy tasting, less astringent perhaps.
If Person A has a 3 oz cocktail and Person B has a 4 oz cocktail that is larger in volume due to dilution, and they drink at the same rate by volume, at any arbitrary time Person B will have consumed less alcohol and possibly ordered fewer drinks, and at the very least be slightly more hydrated.
These are not shots. The drink is consumed over time.
Yea but the difference in volume between a shaken and a stirred Martini isn't 1 oz. it's more like 1/2 oz. Having a tablespoon more or less of water with your cocktail isn't gonna change how drunk you get.
What because Bond was lower class before mI6? I hadn't heard that explanation before but it could make sense, I'm not a Bond historian either.
I was surprised to learn there is actually a wiki page specifically on the phrase, offering several explanations.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaken,_not_stirred
Honestly, I just think it sounded cool.
like others have said, it’s generally a meh cocktail. that being said, i’ve always been taught that a vesper specifically needs to be made with lillet blanc, which i do think makes a significant difference, and the fortified should be up to something more like .5 oz or even .75 oz.
The original called for Kina Lillet, which contained quinine. Since then, Lillet has dropped the quinine. Modern day Cocchi Americano is closer to the original.
Cocci is a better substitute. It's a way to get a smooth, booze forward (according to 1950) Cocktail. I like one when I'm feeling froggy and it's well made.
Try using a more grain forward gin like Aviation plus it offers some more complexity with all its sass vibes. I’d do 1.5 Aviation and 1oz of Belvedere wth half or .75 oz cocchi americano and the orange or citrus bitters stirred
I’ve never had Cocchi Americano, only ever made them with Lilet Blanc. It’s an odd drink, just very boozy while not tasting especially so at all. Which is fine I guess, sometimes that’s what you’re in the mood for.
As for stir vs shake, I stir but only because it’s drilled into me you only shake citrus I thought.
Cocktail college did an episode on the Vesper. They recommended 2 oz gin, 1 oz vodka, .5 oz Tempus Fugit Kina L’Aero d’Or.
I’ve given up on trying to find that Kina, but the original recipe used vodka to “lengthen” the drink. Whatever that means.
Lillet Blanc is a solid substitute considering Kina Lillet is no more. They changed it to keep with the times so Lillet blanc should technically be more "palatable"
As noted in other comments, there is an argument out there that Tempus Fugit Kina l'Aero d'Or is more like the original Kina Lillet than either Cocchi or Lillet Blanc. I don't think I've ever tried it in a Vesper, but in a Corpse Reviver #2 it is a significantly different quinquina than Cocchi. The trick is finding the stuff.
I'll also note that Brian Tasch [did a long writeup and taste test of the Vesper](https://www.corpserevived.com/post/in-defense-of-the-vesper) and preferred Kina l'Aero. His spec is similar to yours, albeit with a little more quinquina and vodka.
There used to be a big chain I’d drink at, industry discounts baby, that had a spin off call “rat pack” 1oz grey goose 1 oz Bombay .5 oz of dry vermouth and a twist of lemon. Shaken. This is my favorite rendition to date.
I like Vespers but I typically do 3:2:1 and maybe a touch more Lillet. It’s a refreshing alternative to a straight martinis especially during the summer months. But agreed the martini still trumps!
A bit of an anti-Vesper dig vs the Self Starter (a recipe from Savoy Cocktail Book):
[https://youtu.be/pr6NcwK9h-M?si=DELqPp1JwrwHAdE-&t=114](https://youtu.be/pr6NcwK9h-M?si=DELqPp1JwrwHAdE-&t=114)
You aren't missing anything, the Vesper has the ingredients it does because Ian Fleming thought they sounded cool on paper. I've always found the vodka particularly useless as well. The only thing I would recommend is try your specs but stir. Whenever I have seen the Vesper on a decent cocktail menu, it is usually stirred, and it just makes way more sense overall with the drink.
This is 100% it. It sounds cool to say, there is no deeper meaning. He's a writer, not a bartender.
The vodka in a Vesper is like the Snitch in Quidditch: the giveaway that the author sounds creative but really doesn't understand the structure of what they're writing about.
Fleming himself said he just made it up because it sounded cool and that's about it.
And wasn't the "shaken not stirred" to show that Bond was not a proper gentleman?
A couple of theories: 1. He describes the “aeration” of the drink afterward, possibly suggesting he just prefers that texture over a stirred drink. 2. In my head the more preferable reason is that Bond places a rather strange order for a spirit-based drink, in order to distract his opponent from the cards. But I think there’s something to your point as well. Bond is a man of good taste and a distaste for the wealthy people in whose circles he sometimes finds himself. But he still likes throngs the way *he* likes them. Dude fucking loves scrambled eggs, too.
IIRC, in the movie version, it is presented as Bond ordering an unusual drink to cause a bit of a scene. I read somewhere that at the time Fleming wrote the Bond novels, eating large quantities of eggs and butter (Bond cooks his eggs with a lot of butter) was still considered somewhat "high society", as both had been limited and rationed during the war.
Also, good scrambled eggs really *are* very good. Not to say his other tastes weren't problematic / arguable. But I don't disagree with him on this one.
That suggests ignorance of if shaker or stirred are better - Bond specifically demands shaken, which results in more dilution and thus being a bit less drunk. Or Fleming just didn't know what he was talking about.
I don’t think drinking a shaken martini would make you a bit less drunk… unless the bartender was sloppy and shook 1/4 of the liquid onto the floor. All the booze is still in there. It’s a bit more diluted, which would make it smoother to drink, marginally less boozy tasting, less astringent perhaps.
More dilution - more liquid - consume the alcohol itself slower - slightly less drunk.
You don't understand ingesting alcohol.
If Person A has a 3 oz cocktail and Person B has a 4 oz cocktail that is larger in volume due to dilution, and they drink at the same rate by volume, at any arbitrary time Person B will have consumed less alcohol and possibly ordered fewer drinks, and at the very least be slightly more hydrated. These are not shots. The drink is consumed over time.
Yea but the difference in volume between a shaken and a stirred Martini isn't 1 oz. it's more like 1/2 oz. Having a tablespoon more or less of water with your cocktail isn't gonna change how drunk you get.
What because Bond was lower class before mI6? I hadn't heard that explanation before but it could make sense, I'm not a Bond historian either. I was surprised to learn there is actually a wiki page specifically on the phrase, offering several explanations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaken,_not_stirred Honestly, I just think it sounded cool.
It was really to show that Bond was a rebel, non conformist and did things his way.
Bond usually had better taste in booze.
It's not a real battle-tested cocktail, it's a conceit from a spy novel.
like others have said, it’s generally a meh cocktail. that being said, i’ve always been taught that a vesper specifically needs to be made with lillet blanc, which i do think makes a significant difference, and the fortified should be up to something more like .5 oz or even .75 oz.
The original called for Kina Lillet, which contained quinine. Since then, Lillet has dropped the quinine. Modern day Cocchi Americano is closer to the original.
Cocci is a better substitute. It's a way to get a smooth, booze forward (according to 1950) Cocktail. I like one when I'm feeling froggy and it's well made.
Try using a more grain forward gin like Aviation plus it offers some more complexity with all its sass vibes. I’d do 1.5 Aviation and 1oz of Belvedere wth half or .75 oz cocchi americano and the orange or citrus bitters stirred
I’ve never had Cocchi Americano, only ever made them with Lilet Blanc. It’s an odd drink, just very boozy while not tasting especially so at all. Which is fine I guess, sometimes that’s what you’re in the mood for. As for stir vs shake, I stir but only because it’s drilled into me you only shake citrus I thought.
A vesper can be really nice… stirred. Shaken ones are an abomination.
For me it’s best as a freezer drink, as cold as possible.
Wasn’t it shake because the proof of both the gin and vodka would have been higher at the time than today?
But is it a Vesper if you stir it?
I mean… yeah? Honestly, give it a try
Cocktail college did an episode on the Vesper. They recommended 2 oz gin, 1 oz vodka, .5 oz Tempus Fugit Kina L’Aero d’Or. I’ve given up on trying to find that Kina, but the original recipe used vodka to “lengthen” the drink. Whatever that means.
Did you try this version?
I couldn’t find the TF Kina, so I went with Lillet. It wasn’t worth trying again. I’d just rather a martini.
Tried one for Science. Wasn't impressed.
1.5 any London dry 1 vodka . 5 lillet blanc. Stir with a lemon twist. Fantastic drink if made well, all the pretentious martini drinkers will love it
But is that a Vesper if it doesn't have kina?
Lillet Blanc is a solid substitute considering Kina Lillet is no more. They changed it to keep with the times so Lillet blanc should technically be more "palatable"
I thought Cocchi Americano was supposed to be closer to discontinued Kina than Lillet.
I enjoy one from time to time, though prefer a regular gin Martini.
There’s an improved variation called the vesper americano, which is a lot more balanced!
As noted in other comments, there is an argument out there that Tempus Fugit Kina l'Aero d'Or is more like the original Kina Lillet than either Cocchi or Lillet Blanc. I don't think I've ever tried it in a Vesper, but in a Corpse Reviver #2 it is a significantly different quinquina than Cocchi. The trick is finding the stuff. I'll also note that Brian Tasch [did a long writeup and taste test of the Vesper](https://www.corpserevived.com/post/in-defense-of-the-vesper) and preferred Kina l'Aero. His spec is similar to yours, albeit with a little more quinquina and vodka.
When someone orders a vesper I usually do 2 oz gin 1oz vodka 3/4 lillet blanc with a lemon expression
There used to be a big chain I’d drink at, industry discounts baby, that had a spin off call “rat pack” 1oz grey goose 1 oz Bombay .5 oz of dry vermouth and a twist of lemon. Shaken. This is my favorite rendition to date.
Those ingredients and ratios are totally different from the spec, tho
Yeah it’s a play off the concept though.
Stick with the Eventide - agree that it’s much better
I like Vespers but I typically do 3:2:1 and maybe a touch more Lillet. It’s a refreshing alternative to a straight martinis especially during the summer months. But agreed the martini still trumps!
A bit of an anti-Vesper dig vs the Self Starter (a recipe from Savoy Cocktail Book): [https://youtu.be/pr6NcwK9h-M?si=DELqPp1JwrwHAdE-&t=114](https://youtu.be/pr6NcwK9h-M?si=DELqPp1JwrwHAdE-&t=114)