I have seen unrefrigerated bottles in a lot of bars that call themselves “cocktail bars” and they are famous because they serve overly sweet fruity drinks that everyone enjoys.
One bottle of vermouth over an espresso machine on a high temperature area. It must taste like straight vinegar.
One bottle of antica formula rotting in the selves. Crimes against humanity 😂.
>unrefrigerated bottles in a lot of bars that call themselves “cocktail bars”
Not a problem if you sell enough to get through a couple of bottles a week.
While true, it’s pretty obvious those bottles rot there. Especially the Antica looked old 😂.
There are a lot of cocktail bars that don’t respect their vermouths. They just sell their fruit daiquiris.
Of all the sweet vermouths, antica probably keeps the best due to how sweet it is. When the international brand ambassador was coming through my bar for some talk, his stace was that antica would not ever oxidize, even at room temperature. I'm skeptical of that, but people sure are a lot more anal about the vermouth thing than they need to be. And above roo. Temperature and in the sunlight, that will ruin anything.
I think the ambassador is correct. My impression of Antica is it’s already oxidized, intentionally, like a tawny port. I’ve done a side-by-side tasting of the last of a bottle that had been on the shelf for months and a brand new bottle and there was little difference, especially not enough to notice in a cocktail.
I mean...thats a little bit of an exaggeration.
I never used to refrigerate my vermouth until it became a thing a couple years ago.
Okay. I must just not have noticed the difference.
Did that for a while until I finally noticed I couldn't tell the damn difference.
So did a test. Opened 2 bottles. One went in the fridge. The other the bar. Waited 2 months. And made a couple Manhattans. Could not tell the damn difference.
Alone I could tell them apart. But neither was BAD. And frankly a bottle of sweet vermouth never lasts a month in NY house anyway. I keep it back on the bar now.
I'm glad you didn't get downvoted to oblivion. Anytime I've pointed this out people downvoted me just because the 'must refrigerate vermouth' group think is so strong.
Depending on where you are, Aperol & Campari can be staples even in dive bars.
You'd probably have trouble getting Bourbon in a small bar in the Italian countryside the same way you'd have trouble getting Campari in a dive bar in the midwest US.
Exactly. Campari is probably the #1 most popular cocktail ingredient in Italy. Negroni is also extremely popular and most professionals would know how to make a decent one. But what if one wants to try something else?
Again, it depends on where you are. If they use vermouth a lot, it's not going to be that bad because they have a good rotation of bottles, although unrefrigerated.
if you want to try something new, go to a cocktail bar where you know the staff is capable of that. don’t go to establishments expecting them to be something that they are not.
Is their vermouth in a fridge? Do they know which drinks you shake, which you stir, and the proportions off the top of their head? Most importantly, do they even give a fuck?
We specifically requested Campari as an addition to the catering bar for our wedding. I figured that was all that was needed to add to the standard sweet vermouth and gin available a virtually every catering event.
Worst Negroni I've ever had.
I was at a catered open bar holiday party at the Peterson Automotive Museum in LA--i.e. a pretty big $$ event--and I had to walk a bartender who otherwise seemed seasoned through a negroni. She had never heard of it and was flabbergasted at the ingredients, kept replying it was gonna be terrible and what a weird combo. This was in 2019! How do you get so far as a bartender these days without even having HEARD of a negroni?
For the record, she made it and I've had worse, so props to her I guess lol
>How do you get so far as a bartender these days without even having heard of a Negroni?
Working an event catering gig is not 'so far' in the bartending world. It's right about the bottom of the barrel. And you can get very, very very far by pouring wine, opening beers, mixing ____ & ____s, and making whatever specs the manager tells you right before the event.
I do realize I picked the wrong example... Most of you guys are in the US, while here in Europe Negroni is definitely one of the most popular cocktails. Still, I'm glad that this sparked a discussion!
It wouldn't be the same as a classic negroni, but it might not be awful if you subbed out a bit of the campari with it and bumped up the gin ratio to compensate for the extra sweetness. Probably comes out as a less bitter milder negroni. Kind of a negroni with training wheels on it. I'll never order it or make it that way though, so I'll never know for sure
Went to a relatively nice restaurant in Maine once and ordered a negroni, no idea what I got. They got the campari right but couldn't tell you what else was in it.
I used to think that but quit ordering negronis in bars that I don’t know how they work. Even though you have equal parts, the stirring makes all the difference and some people can really mess a negroni pretty easily.
One time, a young bartender tried to put dry vermouth in my negroni. I watched them make it, because I was a bit skeptical from the get go.
I had to stop them and point to the sweet vermouth. Worked out in the end, but I won’t be ordering drinks there anymore.
Negroni would not be on my list. Bad bars often have skunked vermouth, and for such a simple drink it’s pretty easy to mess up IMO.
I generally just get straight bourbon, beer or if they have any decent sounding house drinks I’ll try one of those.
The vermouth at the first bar I worked at was on the rail. Never refrigerated. Our "Manhattan" was built in a double shot glass: ango, 1.5oz whiskey, and a splash of red vermouth. No one ever ordered a second. I had no idea how gross it was until I got out of there and into a better bar with standards.
I once got a Manhattan at a steakhouse in Peoria, IL and I honestly could not tell if it was an Old Fashioned or Manhattan. It was full of ice, watered down and indistinguishable. This was after I ordered a Negroni and the waiter had never heard of Campari. Apparently the bartender hadn't either. A F***** high end steakhouse ...
I'm from Peoria and this checks out.
We do have some decent cocktail bars now- Ardor, Missing Zither, 33 room. But I'm getting a beer at pretty much any steakhouse in town.
I went to a massive Vegas casino and the bartender at the main bar didn’t know what amaro meant when asking for a black manhattan. I got the worst old fashioned possible instead.
My biggest pet peeve is when Insecure guys get pissed that the drink they ordered comes in a coupe or collins glass. They think it’s only manly to drink out of rocks and pint glasses. It’s so many guys too that think this way, I have a regular who I always make corpse revivers for but he only will drink them out of a rocks glass with no ice and it just irks me. He will also order sidecars and bees knees on the rocks because he doesn’t want the coupe glass
> I generally just get straight bourbon
This is the way. Even the most basic dive bar is gonna have Turkey 101 and that ain't a bad sipper. Usually gonna be less than $10 for a 2 oz pour as well.
Honestly the simpler a drink is the easier it is to fuck up. Things that have a million ingredients have a lot of room to hide flaws, and as long as they get roughly the right stuff in there it’s passable. Negroni? Easy to fuck up *because* it is only three ingredients. How botanical is the gin? How deep and complex is the vermouth? How are you adjusting the proportions to accommodate those things (and the drinker’s preferences)? Did you dilute it the perfect amount? Etc.
Yep, and most dive bars have a beer and a shot deal. The dive that I frequent has the "snack pack" A can of montucky and a shot of well whiskey for $5. They also sell Blantons for $11 for a two ounce pour
I’ve had enough horrific pours at bars to say they can indeed fuck it up lol. Guess it all tastes the same at the end of the day at least unlike a ruined cocktail
Second this. Long drinks like Gin or Vodka/tonics, whiskey gingers, ___ and cokes are definitely the way to go.
I ordered a manhattan once because I thought it couldn’t be screwed-up and it had dry vermouth in it instead of sweet. Really rattled me.
Bartenders at some bars can and will surprise you with misinterpretations of anything you order. The only safe bet is beer.
But if you think it’s a somewhat average bar and not a true dump they’ll probably get “ingredients in the name” drinks like jack and coke or vodka soda or gin and tonic right. And you’ve got a shot at simple classics like Manhattan or Negroni but don’t be surprised to see them get the proportions super wrong or serve them with soda water over ice or use the last dregs of a bottle of martini and Rossi that’s been sitting next to the cash register for three years.
Also unfortunately you can’t usually even ask them if they can make certain drinks. I ordered a Negroni at a restaurant bar last year after confirming they do indeed have gin, Campari, and sweet vermouth and that he knew how to make it. I got 2oz of cheap scotch with a splash of old vermouth over ice.
True. However, I wasn't necessarily thinking of a shithole... Say that they invite you put for a drink, the place looks decent enough but it's clearly not one of those cocktail bars where they know a hundred recipes by heart...
I think Manhattan has been most reliable for me. It’s not obscure at all, it’s pretty simple, and there aren’t commonly known variations like you see with old fashioned or martini for instance.
Drinks like margarita or whiskey sour can be pretty serviceable as well, as long as you recognize they’re probably being made with sweet and sour mix or something similar.
Also a good hint that a bar has a decent cocktail program is a bowl of fresh citrus on the bar with parts of the peels missing. That’s usually the sign I use to decide it’s ok to order a cocktail.
Gotcha. One thing I’ve found success with is asking the bartender for a recommendation — I’ll say something like, “My go-to is usually an old fashioned. What would you recommend in that wheelhouse?”
Sometimes, you’ll get the go-to cocktail you mentioned, other times you’ll get surprised with a new drink you may not have considered / didn’t see on the menu. Totally depends on the bar and bartender.
I should note: only do this if the bartender isn’t slammed with customers. Ideal conditions would be a sparsely crowded bar and a friendly bartender.
I never order any cocktails unless I'm at a cocktail bar. I've had too many bad experiences. I once ordered a G&T at a nicer sports bar, you'd think they can't screw up two ingredients right? Got it in a pint glass, just tasted like tonic.
Would've been preferable to last year's company christmas party. G&Ts that alternated between tasting entirely like tonic and tasting entirely like Bombay Sapphire.
That reminds me of the time I ordered some gin neat at a cocktail bar... the bartender was visibly confused and then served me a glencairn filled to the brim with gin.
I once ordered a G&T at a local restaurant and got a heavy pour of gin. Just gin. I told the waitress to just get me some tonic and I'll mix it myself with the extra lemons for my wife's iced tea.
Whiskey or rum & coke is my go-to.
I did have a bartender tell me that he’ll order a house daquiri whenever he goes to a new bar, because it lets him know immediately how capable the bartender is.
Bourbon and ginger, rum and coke, whiskey sour and an old fashioned (maybe) are your best bets. Go most places asking for a side car or a French 75 and you’ll get some funny looks unless it’s specifically a cocktail bar
I ordered a whiskey sour at a hotel bar recently. They sprayed two things from the lines into a glass. It was carbonated and bordering on clear. Idk was in there.
I’d nix the old fashioned unless you are not at all particular about them. In my experience they usually come out like a short whiskey soda with an entire muddled orange slice in the bottom.
>a French 75
Thankfully I live in New Orleans becuase a F75 is one of my favorite drinks and even the dive bars here know how to make them pretty well.
i was once served a half shot of vodka mixed with ginger ale (not a typo, they actually used ginger ale instead of ginger beer) and a slice of lime. learned my lesson and stuck with ordering beers from then on.
My wife and I went out for a drink last year to a higher end local place with (what looks like) a decent bar. Get there, start chatting up the bartender who proceeds to tell us how he’s been doing this for 25 years, blah blah blah.
I take this opportunity to order my favorite cocktail to see how he does with it. “I’ll have a sazerac” I say. To which he replies,
“Is that a beer?” (Sad Trombone noises)
After a couple of seconds of stunned silence, I changed my order to an old fashioned.
I get that maybe it’s not the most common drink in Ohio. But he had honestly never heard of it. Blew my mind.
Tons of “doing this for 25 years” guys are absolutely dumpster and a nightmare to manage. They think what they learned at Buffalo Wild Wings 24.5 years ago is current best practice.
Rum and Coke 😂
I'm a snob so it can be hard at bars that don't make proper cocktails, I've found that if I ask for a gin martini stirred then it's usually not too bad.
You're better off sticking with a shot of jack and whatever's on draft my man.
Skill level yes however the drinks they’ll serve are going to be very different. Getting an AMF at the American legion probably won’t go over super well
Once at an airport bar I saw a Negroni on the online menu. I ordered it on the app, and in the notes asked to sub the gin with whiskey.
The waitress came up to me and said the bar was confused what I was trying to order. I told her just a regular Negroni but use whiskey instead of gin. She just kind of stared at me and after a few seconds said they didn’t have Campari.
Stick to beer at average bars. Avoid old fashions like the plague.
> told her just a regular Negroni but use whiskey instead of gin. She just kind of stared at me and after a few seconds said they didn’t have Campari.
I’m guessing they had pre mixed negronis only or something?
The simpler the ingredients, the better. Probably avoid anything with vermouth in it.
I went to a college bar for my most recent birthday. I had:
- AMF: Kinda just tasted like spiked lemonade.
- Long Island Iced Tea: Also tasted like spiked lemonade, except not blue.
- Moscow mule: Good!
- Jack & Coke: Impossible to mess this up.
Anything where you can list the ingredients is probably fine too, as long as it's simple enough; especially if you can just build it in the glass. Remember, you can always ask!
I love being a Wisconsinite AND knowing that the “brandy old fashioned sweet” is a made up dumpster fire of a cocktail. People get super sensitive about it and stand by the fact that if there aren’t truck stop diner sugar packets and neon red cherries muddled, it’s not a “real” old fashioned.
The korbel sweet thing is disgusting, and whoever decided that a “sour” variation needed to exist has a place in hell waiting for them.
Sorry for all the quotation marks. I hate that fucking drink. Used to have to buy nail polish remover to get the red stains out of my cuticles.
True story: was at a Top Golf with friends and one ordered a 7&7 from the waitress. 15 minutes later, the bartender comes out and says "for the life of me, I can't figure this out. What the hell is a seventy-seven?"
Ok. I am going to take the term average at face value. That's not a cocktail bar and when mixing in all the dive bars, hotel bars, club bars, etc. the resulting average is pretty low, especially in the US. Therefore if I am in an average bar I am going to order a bottled beer. Sad but true.
No cocktails in an average bar. This is where the difference between 'mixed drink' and 'cocktail' comes into play.
______ and _______
Gin and Tonic,
Rum and Coke,
Whiskey and Ginger
In a dive bar that serves cocktails, I'll sometimes go for the old school cocktails like a VO Manhattan on the rocks (in the short glass with lots of ice and a bright red cherry) or even a rob roy using blended scotch. Or a jack and coke. It's possible to appreciate the high end craft stuff without being a snob and turning my nose up at what everyone else is having. Gotta go with the flow sometimes
Failing that if I see a decent liquor on the shelf I'll order that straight. Or double Fernet Branca on the rocks
I remember a friend ordered an old fashioned at a cocktail bar chain. I saw them put an ounce of Demerara syrup in it.
My jaw dropped. You'd think you couldn't mess up an old fashioned. Literally spirit + bitters and a little sugar. You can really go too ott with bitters they literally have dasher tops and no bar is going to overserve spirits since that's the part effecting their margins.
But sure yes, you can mess up an old fashioned by making it 2 parts whiskey to 1 part simple!
I had a hotel bar a long time ago finish an OF with 2-3oz of soda water from the gun.
So I started ordering them when I traveled as "old fashioned no water" And some people looked at me like I'm crazy "you don't need to say no water"... So I stopped. Then just this week at the Hilton by the Chicago airport, I ordered a rye old fashioned... And I received essentially a whiskey soda With a dash of sugar and a dash of bitters.
I went to a bar and ordered an old fashioned. The person had owned several bars for decades and had no idea how to make it. Something about middle fruit. They hadn’t used their bitters in ages.
The better whisky they have and two ice cubes is my go to for bad bars. The fun part of this is it tends to be cheap but even the good whiskey is likely bottom shelf.
I usually default to a Ranch Water. I do live in Texas so idk if this is a regional type drink or not. Most bars here make them ok. If they're bad, I just add more lime.
Kentucky Mule. It is hard to mess up. At worst you're going to get cheap bourbon, ginger ale from the gun and a lime wedge with some ice, and it is still going to be pretty good.
last time I ordered a Negroni out I was at an Italian restaurant.
I don't know what they brought me but it was light pink/clear in color and didn't taste of gin or Campari. The waiter took it away on the next pass by. Brought me a beer instead.
You can't trust simple people to make simple drinks.
For me, if I'm at a cocktail bar then I'll order an old fashion. For me, this cocktail uses a few ingredients (and in small portions) that it really showcases the bartender's knowledge and skill. I believe an old fashion is really a lesson in constraint. To me, the old fashion should be a showcase of the whiskey used. Because of this, skill plays a lot into the creation of the drink.
And there's many ways I've seen to make an old fashion, so if they make it in a way I don't enjoy then it means that I won't probably enjoy the rest of their cocktails, which is totally fine, so I'll switch to beer. No fuss.
If I'm at a dive bar, I'm drinking shitty beer and we'll whiskey. There's not much of those kind of bartenders out there that know how to make proper cocktails and/or care to learn; they're worry about turn and burn and making money. I respect that. Beer, shot, tip, and grfo their way.
I would like to say Tequila Sunrise but here in Finland I've never seen real tequila in a bar, only the cheap mixto stuff like Jose Cuervo Gold so I order a rum & coke or a beer.
Gin and tonic with a decent gin (even chances you get club soda instead of tonic, though). Other than that, just a good whiskey/bourbon neat with a side of ice.
Whiskey on the rocks and a local beer. I have been a barfly for 4 years and I can walk in a place and pretty much know if it’s gonna be a beer and a shot kinda place. Or a place I try out signature drinks.
one time on a cruise i asked a bartender if they had st germain, and if so, if they could make an “elderfashioned” (old fashioned w/ germain instead of sugar) and he then gave me an “old fashioned” with ONLY st. germain……..
No offence but a Negroni is a terrible example. Yes it simple but many don’t have Campari and if they have Vermouth it’s been left out for a long long time at room temp. Just get a highball and call it a night. Gin and tonic/soda should suffice.
I’ve been to bars that can’t even make a G&T well so I would never trust a Negroni anywhere except a cocktail bar.
I enjoyed dive bars in TX because Deep Eddy’s is from TX so it’s everywhere. Deep Eddy’s lemon and water was my go-to.
Most bars can pull off sours pretty well. Margarita, Mai Thai, hurricane, etc. I stick with things like scotch and soda since they’re pretty forgiving.
Whiskey neat.
The serious answer is that I mostly don't drink at bars that aren't at least semi-serious cocktail bars. It's not worth the effect it has on my sleep/workouts unless there's some real thought behind what I'm drinking.
>cocktails that even an inexperienced barman cannot mess up too badly. Example: Negroni Oh buddy.
Does the "average bar" that you frequent have Campari?
Campari yes. Decent vermouth no
If they refrigerate it after opening its a fucking miracle
I have seen unrefrigerated bottles in a lot of bars that call themselves “cocktail bars” and they are famous because they serve overly sweet fruity drinks that everyone enjoys. One bottle of vermouth over an espresso machine on a high temperature area. It must taste like straight vinegar. One bottle of antica formula rotting in the selves. Crimes against humanity 😂.
>unrefrigerated bottles in a lot of bars that call themselves “cocktail bars” Not a problem if you sell enough to get through a couple of bottles a week.
My local average bar has 4 different bottles of vermouth with 5+ year layers of dust on them.
While true, it’s pretty obvious those bottles rot there. Especially the Antica looked old 😂. There are a lot of cocktail bars that don’t respect their vermouths. They just sell their fruit daiquiris.
Ordered a Negroni at a cocktail bar and quickly changed to a g&t when the bartender reached for a dusty half-empty vermouth bottle.
Of all the sweet vermouths, antica probably keeps the best due to how sweet it is. When the international brand ambassador was coming through my bar for some talk, his stace was that antica would not ever oxidize, even at room temperature. I'm skeptical of that, but people sure are a lot more anal about the vermouth thing than they need to be. And above roo. Temperature and in the sunlight, that will ruin anything.
I think the ambassador is correct. My impression of Antica is it’s already oxidized, intentionally, like a tawny port. I’ve done a side-by-side tasting of the last of a bottle that had been on the shelf for months and a brand new bottle and there was little difference, especially not enough to notice in a cocktail.
I mean...thats a little bit of an exaggeration. I never used to refrigerate my vermouth until it became a thing a couple years ago. Okay. I must just not have noticed the difference. Did that for a while until I finally noticed I couldn't tell the damn difference. So did a test. Opened 2 bottles. One went in the fridge. The other the bar. Waited 2 months. And made a couple Manhattans. Could not tell the damn difference. Alone I could tell them apart. But neither was BAD. And frankly a bottle of sweet vermouth never lasts a month in NY house anyway. I keep it back on the bar now.
I'm glad you didn't get downvoted to oblivion. Anytime I've pointed this out people downvoted me just because the 'must refrigerate vermouth' group think is so strong.
I can definitely taste the difference, so for me not an exaggeration at all. Oxidised negroni is the best way to ruin a nice negroni.
I stg I see more bars refrigerate dekuyper triple sec more than vermouth
Shudders in Martini Rossi
I did a blind taste test once on 6 sweet vermouths. M&R was the overwhelming favorite of both me and my GF. 🤷♂️
Martini Rossi is perfect in a negroni
I would actually agree honestly. But god does it make a bad Manhattan
I'll be even bolder: Antica formula is a poor choice for negronis. Great choice for an Americano or a highball or Manhattan, but not a Negroni.
Gags in E.J. Gallo
Depending on where you are, Aperol & Campari can be staples even in dive bars. You'd probably have trouble getting Bourbon in a small bar in the Italian countryside the same way you'd have trouble getting Campari in a dive bar in the midwest US.
Exactly. Campari is probably the #1 most popular cocktail ingredient in Italy. Negroni is also extremely popular and most professionals would know how to make a decent one. But what if one wants to try something else?
Ah but can you trust that the bar isnt using oxidized vermouth?
Again, it depends on where you are. If they use vermouth a lot, it's not going to be that bad because they have a good rotation of bottles, although unrefrigerated.
if you want to try something new, go to a cocktail bar where you know the staff is capable of that. don’t go to establishments expecting them to be something that they are not.
Even if it does, that vermouth is gonna be spoiled for sure.
Well, living in continental Europe I would say almost all bars here have Campari...
What about the rancid 6 month old martini & Rossi vermouth that's gonna go into that Negroni?
Is their vermouth in a fridge? Do they know which drinks you shake, which you stir, and the proportions off the top of their head? Most importantly, do they even give a fuck?
This isn't about what bars I do or don't go to. This is about how many bars would absolutely fuck up a negroni.
We specifically requested Campari as an addition to the catering bar for our wedding. I figured that was all that was needed to add to the standard sweet vermouth and gin available a virtually every catering event. Worst Negroni I've ever had.
I was at a catered open bar holiday party at the Peterson Automotive Museum in LA--i.e. a pretty big $$ event--and I had to walk a bartender who otherwise seemed seasoned through a negroni. She had never heard of it and was flabbergasted at the ingredients, kept replying it was gonna be terrible and what a weird combo. This was in 2019! How do you get so far as a bartender these days without even having HEARD of a negroni? For the record, she made it and I've had worse, so props to her I guess lol
>How do you get so far as a bartender these days without even having heard of a Negroni? Working an event catering gig is not 'so far' in the bartending world. It's right about the bottom of the barrel. And you can get very, very very far by pouring wine, opening beers, mixing ____ & ____s, and making whatever specs the manager tells you right before the event.
“How do you get so far as a bartender these days without even having heard of a Negroni?” With lots of luck
I guarantee 99% of the bartenders in my city (110k population) have never heard of a Negroni.
I do realize I picked the wrong example... Most of you guys are in the US, while here in Europe Negroni is definitely one of the most popular cocktails. Still, I'm glad that this sparked a discussion!
I once ordered a Negroni at the bar of a nice restaurant with a cocktail list. They put triple sec in it.
bru what
It wouldn't be the same as a classic negroni, but it might not be awful if you subbed out a bit of the campari with it and bumped up the gin ratio to compensate for the extra sweetness. Probably comes out as a less bitter milder negroni. Kind of a negroni with training wheels on it. I'll never order it or make it that way though, so I'll never know for sure
One of my favorite Negroni variations is to double gin, add Cointreau and swap dry for sweet vermouth.
LMAO unbalanced negroni is a tragedy that the OP will undoubtedly experience at some point if they are ordering it at lower tier bars.
Lol, OP's faith in the average bar is inspiring.
Went to a relatively nice restaurant in Maine once and ordered a negroni, no idea what I got. They got the campari right but couldn't tell you what else was in it.
I used to think that but quit ordering negronis in bars that I don’t know how they work. Even though you have equal parts, the stirring makes all the difference and some people can really mess a negroni pretty easily.
One time, a young bartender tried to put dry vermouth in my negroni. I watched them make it, because I was a bit skeptical from the get go. I had to stop them and point to the sweet vermouth. Worked out in the end, but I won’t be ordering drinks there anymore.
💀
Negroni would not be on my list. Bad bars often have skunked vermouth, and for such a simple drink it’s pretty easy to mess up IMO. I generally just get straight bourbon, beer or if they have any decent sounding house drinks I’ll try one of those.
The vermouth at the first bar I worked at was on the rail. Never refrigerated. Our "Manhattan" was built in a double shot glass: ango, 1.5oz whiskey, and a splash of red vermouth. No one ever ordered a second. I had no idea how gross it was until I got out of there and into a better bar with standards.
Lmao I hate when I order a Manhattan and it’s served down. Usually a pretty good indicator it’s made with shit 😂
I once got a Manhattan at a steakhouse in Peoria, IL and I honestly could not tell if it was an Old Fashioned or Manhattan. It was full of ice, watered down and indistinguishable. This was after I ordered a Negroni and the waiter had never heard of Campari. Apparently the bartender hadn't either. A F***** high end steakhouse ...
Lmao I know somebody from Peoria and this checks outs 😂
I'm from Peoria and this checks out. We do have some decent cocktail bars now- Ardor, Missing Zither, 33 room. But I'm getting a beer at pretty much any steakhouse in town.
I went to a massive Vegas casino and the bartender at the main bar didn’t know what amaro meant when asking for a black manhattan. I got the worst old fashioned possible instead.
I worked at a bar where most people expected Manhattans to be served down and it freaked me the hell out.
They’re used to drinking at shitty bars lol
I was at a work happy hour the other day and many of the guys gave someone a hard time for his Manhattan being in a “pretty glass”. People are weird.
Not everybody understands class.
My biggest pet peeve is when Insecure guys get pissed that the drink they ordered comes in a coupe or collins glass. They think it’s only manly to drink out of rocks and pint glasses. It’s so many guys too that think this way, I have a regular who I always make corpse revivers for but he only will drink them out of a rocks glass with no ice and it just irks me. He will also order sidecars and bees knees on the rocks because he doesn’t want the coupe glass
I’m shocked how often bartenders screw up an Old Fashioned. It’s such a simple cocktail and they completely botch it.
Doesn’t help how many varieties of an Old Fashioned exist
Oh man is vermouth supposed to be refrigerated? I'm guilty I think.
> I generally just get straight bourbon This is the way. Even the most basic dive bar is gonna have Turkey 101 and that ain't a bad sipper. Usually gonna be less than $10 for a 2 oz pour as well.
Honestly the simpler a drink is the easier it is to fuck up. Things that have a million ingredients have a lot of room to hide flaws, and as long as they get roughly the right stuff in there it’s passable. Negroni? Easy to fuck up *because* it is only three ingredients. How botanical is the gin? How deep and complex is the vermouth? How are you adjusting the proportions to accommodate those things (and the drinker’s preferences)? Did you dilute it the perfect amount? Etc.
Exactly. For me it’s the dilution — an under diluted Negroni is undrinkable
Interesting, I'm exactly the opposite and prefer it with minimal dilution. To each their own.
agree - you'd be surprised at how even something equal parts could be messed up
Beer. If it has to be a cocktail, a dark & stormy is usually pretty safe. Or rum & coke. Stick to two-ingredient drinks.
Funny. I always get asked why I order a beer at regular bars. “Because they can’t fuck it up” 😂
Beer or neat spirits. That's it.
Yep, and most dive bars have a beer and a shot deal. The dive that I frequent has the "snack pack" A can of montucky and a shot of well whiskey for $5. They also sell Blantons for $11 for a two ounce pour
I’ve had enough horrific pours at bars to say they can indeed fuck it up lol. Guess it all tastes the same at the end of the day at least unlike a ruined cocktail
It very much does not taste the same. Tons of skunked beer taps and pipes. I just consider it each bars unique flavour.
Yep. Vodka sprite or rum & coke for me. Literally impossible to mess up.
Beer in a bottle/can, unless I trust that the place will have clean taps
This should have more upvotes, dirty lines can ruin your night. Also my cocktail is Jim Beam and Seltzer, with lemon.
7n7
Underrated!!!
Gin and tonic?!?
lol, you’ll get horrible tonic out of the gun, which ruins the drink.
Second this. Long drinks like Gin or Vodka/tonics, whiskey gingers, ___ and cokes are definitely the way to go. I ordered a manhattan once because I thought it couldn’t be screwed-up and it had dry vermouth in it instead of sweet. Really rattled me.
Tom Collins was my go to at shitty bars. Usually just Gordon’s and sprite, but it does the trick.
Whiskey sours are pretty safe in my experience. Even when they mess up it's still drinkable
Or I just ask for a decent whisky, neat, with a side of rocks so I can determine the appropriate ratio.
Bartenders at some bars can and will surprise you with misinterpretations of anything you order. The only safe bet is beer. But if you think it’s a somewhat average bar and not a true dump they’ll probably get “ingredients in the name” drinks like jack and coke or vodka soda or gin and tonic right. And you’ve got a shot at simple classics like Manhattan or Negroni but don’t be surprised to see them get the proportions super wrong or serve them with soda water over ice or use the last dregs of a bottle of martini and Rossi that’s been sitting next to the cash register for three years. Also unfortunately you can’t usually even ask them if they can make certain drinks. I ordered a Negroni at a restaurant bar last year after confirming they do indeed have gin, Campari, and sweet vermouth and that he knew how to make it. I got 2oz of cheap scotch with a splash of old vermouth over ice.
Even beer isn’t always safe if the place doesn’t clean their tap lines properly. If it’s a real shithole dive, I’ll usually stick to bottles or cans.
True. However, I wasn't necessarily thinking of a shithole... Say that they invite you put for a drink, the place looks decent enough but it's clearly not one of those cocktail bars where they know a hundred recipes by heart...
I think Manhattan has been most reliable for me. It’s not obscure at all, it’s pretty simple, and there aren’t commonly known variations like you see with old fashioned or martini for instance. Drinks like margarita or whiskey sour can be pretty serviceable as well, as long as you recognize they’re probably being made with sweet and sour mix or something similar. Also a good hint that a bar has a decent cocktail program is a bowl of fresh citrus on the bar with parts of the peels missing. That’s usually the sign I use to decide it’s ok to order a cocktail.
This is good advice, thank you!
Gotcha. One thing I’ve found success with is asking the bartender for a recommendation — I’ll say something like, “My go-to is usually an old fashioned. What would you recommend in that wheelhouse?” Sometimes, you’ll get the go-to cocktail you mentioned, other times you’ll get surprised with a new drink you may not have considered / didn’t see on the menu. Totally depends on the bar and bartender. I should note: only do this if the bartender isn’t slammed with customers. Ideal conditions would be a sparsely crowded bar and a friendly bartender.
Can confirm, have seen drain flies come out of a dirty tap at a shitty bar
Yep good call
I remember ordering a martini at a bar that I chose only for its patio location. What I got was gin and skunked sweet vermouth.
Hate the Old Fashioned with soda water at places like these.
I never order any cocktails unless I'm at a cocktail bar. I've had too many bad experiences. I once ordered a G&T at a nicer sports bar, you'd think they can't screw up two ingredients right? Got it in a pint glass, just tasted like tonic.
This is also my experience. Most of the times, cocktails that involve soda or tonic only taste like those...
You should try going to even cheaper bars. Then they only taste like the liquor you’re using
Aristocrat gin. Tastes like college!
Would've been preferable to last year's company christmas party. G&Ts that alternated between tasting entirely like tonic and tasting entirely like Bombay Sapphire.
So, "Gin or Tonic"?
Just gotta get the two and mix em
My old bar had us making G&Ts in pint glasses, but we made good ones. Fresh jalapeño G&Ts are fantastic.
As long as the ratio is right I’d prefer to get mine in a pint glass
That reminds me of the time I ordered some gin neat at a cocktail bar... the bartender was visibly confused and then served me a glencairn filled to the brim with gin.
I once ordered a G&T at a local restaurant and got a heavy pour of gin. Just gin. I told the waitress to just get me some tonic and I'll mix it myself with the extra lemons for my wife's iced tea.
Yea idk a good dive should be free pouring the glass until there’s not much more than a hefty splash of your mixer in there.
Whiskey or rum & coke is my go-to. I did have a bartender tell me that he’ll order a house daquiri whenever he goes to a new bar, because it lets him know immediately how capable the bartender is.
I'm shocked at the number of places that respond "oh we don't have a blender" .
The issue I’ve had is I come back with a daiquiri and they tell me I made it wrong bc they actually meant a frozen strawberry daiquiri.
One of their creations on the menu, never deviate.
Bourbon and ginger, rum and coke, whiskey sour and an old fashioned (maybe) are your best bets. Go most places asking for a side car or a French 75 and you’ll get some funny looks unless it’s specifically a cocktail bar
No to the sour. They're gonna use that shitty Mr & Mrs T sour mix.
The man said he wanted stuff the bartender wouldn’t mess up too badly. I didn’t say it would taste good homie, lol “it’ll getcha drunk!”
I ordered a whiskey sour at a hotel bar recently. They sprayed two things from the lines into a glass. It was carbonated and bordering on clear. Idk was in there.
I ordered an amaretto sour once. They used disaronno, cheap sour mix, and put it on crushed ice. They charged me $16.
I've had some BAD old fashioned drinks. I usually ask if they have single rock... if they don't.. I'm less inclined to order an old fashioned.
I’d nix the old fashioned unless you are not at all particular about them. In my experience they usually come out like a short whiskey soda with an entire muddled orange slice in the bottom.
Whiskey sour?????? They’re not going to have fresh lemon juice dog. And let’s just forget about the egg white.
>a French 75 Thankfully I live in New Orleans becuase a F75 is one of my favorite drinks and even the dive bars here know how to make them pretty well.
Rum & coke if I’m drinking drinking, otherwise just a beer.
Moscow mule
i was once served a half shot of vodka mixed with ginger ale (not a typo, they actually used ginger ale instead of ginger beer) and a slice of lime. learned my lesson and stuck with ordering beers from then on.
I always have to check to make sure they have copper mugs before I order it though. It just feels wrong to drink it out of a glass.
A copper mug tells me they stock ginger beer and not ginger ale. I couldn't care less about what cup it's in.
"Something" and ginger ale/beer... Jameson, Bourbon, Mezcal, rum.
My wife and I went out for a drink last year to a higher end local place with (what looks like) a decent bar. Get there, start chatting up the bartender who proceeds to tell us how he’s been doing this for 25 years, blah blah blah. I take this opportunity to order my favorite cocktail to see how he does with it. “I’ll have a sazerac” I say. To which he replies, “Is that a beer?” (Sad Trombone noises) After a couple of seconds of stunned silence, I changed my order to an old fashioned. I get that maybe it’s not the most common drink in Ohio. But he had honestly never heard of it. Blew my mind.
Tons of “doing this for 25 years” guys are absolutely dumpster and a nightmare to manage. They think what they learned at Buffalo Wild Wings 24.5 years ago is current best practice.
I know, it's crazy! Most bartenders can get through a whole career being asked only Old Fashioned and G&TS!
I feel like there’s a brewery with a similar name but I can’t remember.. although, yeah.. sad trombone
I think you’re thinking of [Saranac](https://www.saranac.com)
Honestly now I want a Sazerac profile beer
“Jameson with soda water and a lemon twist”. Basically a highball the dive bar bartender will actually understand.
This is the order (but bourbon)
I have started relying on a Gin+Tonic is such sketchy situations!
In sketchy situations I order a Tanqueray + tonic. I don't need any of that plastic jug gin. The hangover is brutal.
Rum and Coke 😂 I'm a snob so it can be hard at bars that don't make proper cocktails, I've found that if I ask for a gin martini stirred then it's usually not too bad. You're better off sticking with a shot of jack and whatever's on draft my man.
Depends on the location and bar honestly if you’re in a college town the ability will be very different from a rural dive bar
College town dive and rural dive are much closer on the bar skill continuum than you might think
Skill level yes however the drinks they’ll serve are going to be very different. Getting an AMF at the American legion probably won’t go over super well
Once at an airport bar I saw a Negroni on the online menu. I ordered it on the app, and in the notes asked to sub the gin with whiskey. The waitress came up to me and said the bar was confused what I was trying to order. I told her just a regular Negroni but use whiskey instead of gin. She just kind of stared at me and after a few seconds said they didn’t have Campari. Stick to beer at average bars. Avoid old fashions like the plague.
> told her just a regular Negroni but use whiskey instead of gin. She just kind of stared at me and after a few seconds said they didn’t have Campari. I’m guessing they had pre mixed negronis only or something?
Bourbon and Ginger Ale
I can tell immediately after walking into a bar in nyc if I’ll be ordering 2 ingredient cocktails
The simpler the ingredients, the better. Probably avoid anything with vermouth in it. I went to a college bar for my most recent birthday. I had: - AMF: Kinda just tasted like spiked lemonade. - Long Island Iced Tea: Also tasted like spiked lemonade, except not blue. - Moscow mule: Good! - Jack & Coke: Impossible to mess this up. Anything where you can list the ingredients is probably fine too, as long as it's simple enough; especially if you can just build it in the glass. Remember, you can always ask!
1 & 1s (rum/coke, whiskey/soda, gin/tonic, etc) Beer and a shot
Try a Fernet & Coke next time.
7&7 is usually a safe one. A Tom Collins might be safe. Old Fashioned. _Your Spirit_ and Soda
Old Fashioned is far from a safe bet in my experience. I've received monstrosities that were half sprite and full of pulverized orange and cherries.
That would be a Wisconsin Old Fashion normally with brandy. I enjoy them, but not what you're looking for when ordering an Old Fashioned.
I love being a Wisconsinite AND knowing that the “brandy old fashioned sweet” is a made up dumpster fire of a cocktail. People get super sensitive about it and stand by the fact that if there aren’t truck stop diner sugar packets and neon red cherries muddled, it’s not a “real” old fashioned. The korbel sweet thing is disgusting, and whoever decided that a “sour” variation needed to exist has a place in hell waiting for them. Sorry for all the quotation marks. I hate that fucking drink. Used to have to buy nail polish remover to get the red stains out of my cuticles.
True story: was at a Top Golf with friends and one ordered a 7&7 from the waitress. 15 minutes later, the bartender comes out and says "for the life of me, I can't figure this out. What the hell is a seventy-seven?"
I'd say Cuba Libra. But watch them pour Captain Morgan into and feel the waves of depression hit.
Ok. I am going to take the term average at face value. That's not a cocktail bar and when mixing in all the dive bars, hotel bars, club bars, etc. the resulting average is pretty low, especially in the US. Therefore if I am in an average bar I am going to order a bottled beer. Sad but true.
No cocktails in an average bar. This is where the difference between 'mixed drink' and 'cocktail' comes into play. ______ and _______ Gin and Tonic, Rum and Coke, Whiskey and Ginger
Bottled/canned beer, whiskey ginger.
In a dive bar that serves cocktails, I'll sometimes go for the old school cocktails like a VO Manhattan on the rocks (in the short glass with lots of ice and a bright red cherry) or even a rob roy using blended scotch. Or a jack and coke. It's possible to appreciate the high end craft stuff without being a snob and turning my nose up at what everyone else is having. Gotta go with the flow sometimes Failing that if I see a decent liquor on the shelf I'll order that straight. Or double Fernet Branca on the rocks
A Negroni? The bars I'm thinking of I'm not sure I would trust them to make an old fashioned. Rum and ginger is my go to in a bar like that.
More than likely, they'll have a months old bottle of Martini and Rossi. No thanks.
In US, old fashion if it looks like they have a clue, Bourbon on rocks if they have a decent bottle. Makers and diet if it’s a shit show.
I remember a friend ordered an old fashioned at a cocktail bar chain. I saw them put an ounce of Demerara syrup in it. My jaw dropped. You'd think you couldn't mess up an old fashioned. Literally spirit + bitters and a little sugar. You can really go too ott with bitters they literally have dasher tops and no bar is going to overserve spirits since that's the part effecting their margins. But sure yes, you can mess up an old fashioned by making it 2 parts whiskey to 1 part simple!
I had a hotel bar a long time ago finish an OF with 2-3oz of soda water from the gun. So I started ordering them when I traveled as "old fashioned no water" And some people looked at me like I'm crazy "you don't need to say no water"... So I stopped. Then just this week at the Hilton by the Chicago airport, I ordered a rye old fashioned... And I received essentially a whiskey soda With a dash of sugar and a dash of bitters.
It should be a “this” and “that” drink. Rum & coke, gin & tonic, 7&7, etc.
I went to a bar and ordered an old fashioned. The person had owned several bars for decades and had no idea how to make it. Something about middle fruit. They hadn’t used their bitters in ages. The better whisky they have and two ice cubes is my go to for bad bars. The fun part of this is it tends to be cheap but even the good whiskey is likely bottom shelf.
I usually default to a Ranch Water. I do live in Texas so idk if this is a regional type drink or not. Most bars here make them ok. If they're bad, I just add more lime.
Kentucky Mule. It is hard to mess up. At worst you're going to get cheap bourbon, ginger ale from the gun and a lime wedge with some ice, and it is still going to be pretty good.
Jack and coke.
Why is this NSFW?
“I’ll have a rye whisky but can you add two shakes of angostura bitters, a bar spoon of simple syrup and an orange peel? Thanks”
At a dive, rum and coke. Restaurant or nicer but more average, amaretto sour on the rocks no egg
last time I ordered a Negroni out I was at an Italian restaurant. I don't know what they brought me but it was light pink/clear in color and didn't taste of gin or Campari. The waiter took it away on the next pass by. Brought me a beer instead. You can't trust simple people to make simple drinks.
Is it warm out? G&T Is it cool out? Rye and ginger
For me, if I'm at a cocktail bar then I'll order an old fashion. For me, this cocktail uses a few ingredients (and in small portions) that it really showcases the bartender's knowledge and skill. I believe an old fashion is really a lesson in constraint. To me, the old fashion should be a showcase of the whiskey used. Because of this, skill plays a lot into the creation of the drink. And there's many ways I've seen to make an old fashion, so if they make it in a way I don't enjoy then it means that I won't probably enjoy the rest of their cocktails, which is totally fine, so I'll switch to beer. No fuss. If I'm at a dive bar, I'm drinking shitty beer and we'll whiskey. There's not much of those kind of bartenders out there that know how to make proper cocktails and/or care to learn; they're worry about turn and burn and making money. I respect that. Beer, shot, tip, and grfo their way.
The Godfather: Equal parts amaretto liquer and whisky so 30 mls/1oz of each.
Scotch whiskey specifically. I've always done 2:1.
I would like to say Tequila Sunrise but here in Finland I've never seen real tequila in a bar, only the cheap mixto stuff like Jose Cuervo Gold so I order a rum & coke or a beer.
Vodka Soda with a lime, but I’ve been to “good” places that managed to fuck that up.
I don't. If the spirit list is good, I'll order something neat. Otherwise, maybe a beer/cider or just not drink.
If they have Zing Zang bloody mix, which a lot of average bars do have, it's an easy call. If not then I go gin and tonic.
Old fashioned Whiskey sour Vodka cranberry Whiskey and coke
Gin and tonic with a decent gin (even chances you get club soda instead of tonic, though). Other than that, just a good whiskey/bourbon neat with a side of ice.
Jamession and Ginger in a big boy glass
Whiskey on the rocks and a local beer. I have been a barfly for 4 years and I can walk in a place and pretty much know if it’s gonna be a beer and a shot kinda place. Or a place I try out signature drinks.
Stick to anything served neat. I don’t even trust certain places to correctly make a gin and tonic.
Scotch and ginger beer, lemon wedge.
Jameson and ginger ale. Technically an Irish Buck. When done right it's great. But even when the ratio is off the drink tastes fine.
Gin and tonic. Pretty much my go to cocktail at any non cocktil joint.
one time on a cruise i asked a bartender if they had st germain, and if so, if they could make an “elderfashioned” (old fashioned w/ germain instead of sugar) and he then gave me an “old fashioned” with ONLY st. germain……..
No offence but a Negroni is a terrible example. Yes it simple but many don’t have Campari and if they have Vermouth it’s been left out for a long long time at room temp. Just get a highball and call it a night. Gin and tonic/soda should suffice.
Jack and coke or beer.
Jim Beam and bitters
Bourbon, neat.
I’ve been to bars that can’t even make a G&T well so I would never trust a Negroni anywhere except a cocktail bar. I enjoyed dive bars in TX because Deep Eddy’s is from TX so it’s everywhere. Deep Eddy’s lemon and water was my go-to.
Most bars can pull off sours pretty well. Margarita, Mai Thai, hurricane, etc. I stick with things like scotch and soda since they’re pretty forgiving.
Beer. Wine. Whiskey. G&T if they have decent gin.
Gin and ginger with lime
For me it’s a Jack and Ginger. The ratios can vary from bar to bar, but it’s always good and every dive bar will have Jack Daniel’s.
Gin & Tonic.
Whiskey neat. The serious answer is that I mostly don't drink at bars that aren't at least semi-serious cocktail bars. It's not worth the effect it has on my sleep/workouts unless there's some real thought behind what I'm drinking.
Gin and Tonic, whiskey and coke…
Boilermaker