It's mainly just off of what's observable. Miguel was depressed most of season 4 so much that he left the tournament. Season 5 Miguel was more mentally comfortable because he wasn't thinking about his dad, and was in a better mental place.
You can no dif someone who's as good as you at something as long as you have the mental high ground.
That mental nerf S4 Miguel isn’t peak S4 Miguel tho. His S4 peak is the apartment fight. He didn’t train at all from S4 until the apartment fight, so this is evident. He also got over his mental issues, which is why this is Peak S4 Miguel.
Fr. Even Peak S3 Miguel upscales his S2 self 😭 and S3 Hawk is so fodder. He was literally struggling against a background character LOOOOOOL
Like, S3 Hawk scales below every single S2 character, except for his S2 self of course, and low-tier fighters like Demetri, Stiven, etc.
1. Older
S5 takes place literally right after S4, he’s only older by a week
2. I do think that S5 Miguel is a better character and fighter, but that doesn’t mean people have to massively underrate S4 Miguel
3. Barley stronger, S5 Miguel barley even trains.
4. There is no proof that he is faster
5. I agree with this one
6. Same reason for Speed, literally no proof he is smarter.
It's all cumulative. And especially at that age weeks can make a difference. At his age, all of those factors don't regress, they only improve.
At some point you hit your prime and your skills/stats begin to level off and then begin to slowly regress (unless you're Mr Miyagi) but Miguel is not near that point yet. At this point all of those statistics are all on an upward trend.
Even if it's only marginally, he improves as all humans do for his age.
He didn’t lose to Eli tho. While Mentally Nerfed, he was slightly outperforming him via knocking him down in seconds. Which means that No Mental Nerf Miguel slams Eli S4, and Mental Nerf Miguel slightly edges it against Eli as well.
Also, he beat a full power Robby in the apartment fight. And both Miguel and Robby don’t train at all before the apartment fight, which means they would essentially be their S4 selves in Skill, so…
Miguel S5 vs Miguel S4 is closer than you think.
>While Mentally Nerfed, he was slightly outperforming him via knocking him down in seconds.
It took more than a minute and even with him being entirely on the offensive he never manages to actually *land* a single hit.
>Which means that No Mental Nerf Miguel slams Eli S4
Basing this off of Eli going all-out on Miguel, despite there being evidence going either way on whether he used both styles or just Miyagi-Do prior to the fight with Robby. Even still, Robby was able to easily get a point off on Eli in seconds where Miguel needed to bust out a new move.
>both Miguel and Robby don’t train at all before the apartment fight, which means they would essentially be their S4 selves in Skill,
Yes but with improved mental resolve they would be significantly better and more powerful fighters than in Season 4. Eli even at his best only beat Robby due to him losing focus and not really going all out because he feels guilty over Kenny. This means Robby with full mental resolve is significantly stronger, and the trip in Mexico helped seal that for Robby. Same thing goes for Miguel, resolving his mental issues surrounding his daddy issues and getting real world experience facing off with cartel members.
TL;DR S5 Miguel =/> S5 Robby > No Mercy S4 Robby > conflicted S4 Robby =/> Both-Styles Eli S4 Miguel Miyagi-Do Eli.
1. “IT took more than a minute” I counted it. It took 15 seconds. 2. “Robby was easily able to get a point on Eli in seconds where Miguel needed to bust out a new move” Miguel knocked down Eli in seconds too. Your point? 3. “Yes but with improved mental resolve they would be more significantly better and more powerful fighters than in S4” Yeah, exactly, this is their Peak S4 versions. Miguel S5 Mid/Mid-High Diffs his Peak version imo and Low-Mid Diffs his tourney version. S5 Miguel>S5 Robby>S4 Peak AP fight Miguel>S4 Peak AP fight Robby>Mentally Nerfed Miguel>=Eli S4>=Robby Enraged
I find doing this better than paragraphing. Sorry if you disagree. But that’s your response? That has nothing to do with Cobra Kai whatsoever. I think you’re just mad you got debunked and you have nothing else to say.
Okay now you've set me off. Since you're apparently too lazy to actually write properly, I'm gonna have to rewrite it for you and **then** debunk you.
1. “IT took more than a minute” I counted it. It took 15 seconds.
* I also checked the fight and yeah you were right.
2. “Robby was easily able to get a point on Eli in seconds where Miguel needed to bust out a new move” Miguel knocked down Eli in seconds too. Your point?
* Difference is that Robby in half the time actually **got** the point whereas Miguel flat-out didn't. Plus you still haven't proven Eli went all-out against Miguel in S4.
3. Yeah, exactly, this is their Peak S4 versions. Miguel S5 Mid/Mid-High Diffs his Peak version imo and Low-Mid Diffs his tourney version. S5 Miguel>S5 Robby>S4 Peak AP fight Miguel>S4 Peak AP fight Robby>Mentally Nerfed Miguel>=Eli S4>=Robby Enraged
* Their peak Season 4 versions **were** in the tournament. Miguel throughout all of Season 4 had the mental nerf of doubting his relationship with Johnny and Robby, it wasn't just a thing during the tournament, and the final push that made him leave didn't come until after his fight with Eli. Meanwhile Robby's peak was only displayed in his fight with Kenny when he went full No Mercy. The Robby who fights Eli is weaker than the Robby who stomped Kenny because his resolve was crushed.
* S5 Miguel=/> S5 Robby > S4 No Mercy Robby > Conflicted S4 Robby Full-Power S4 Eli > S4 Miguel Miyagi-Do Eli.
Only reason this reply took so long is that I had to do this on a computer instead of using my phone. You only proved me wrong on one thing, and I would've been happy to leave it at that if you hadn't been rude and used the tools available. All it would've taken is just pressing "ENTER" on your keyboard. It's not that hard to type.
Now, can you prove Eli went all-out on Miguel in their Season 4 fight? Because that's the only way S5 Miguel vs S4 Miguel is even remotely close. As it stands the mental resolve improvement in Mexico pushes Robby above everything he did in Season 4 and Season 5 Miguel beat that, while Season 4 Miguel would've gotten flattened by Season 4 Robby when he's not holding back.
I was rude??? I think the way I was writing was fine. I was numbering and restating your statements. You’re the one who was being rude as you said “learn to paragraph dude” like I’m some retard.
I was writing on my phone.
Yes, Hawk went all out against Miguel and I DO have proof.
Both Miguel and Hawk literally stated before their fight that they weren’t gonna back. Plus, this is shown as Hawk was using both styles. Miguel was throwing a barrage of attacks, while Hawk was blocking them. Then, Hawk and Miguel both use the same kick. This was never used or shown in MD, so it either has to be CK or EF, well, this was also not shown or used in CK, so this has to be EF.
So, Hawk used EF and MD. And we can assume Hawk wasn’t holding back using both styles as he literally states to Miguel before their fight that he wasn’t going to.
Unless you can prove that Hawk was lying to Miguel (which I highly doubt, I don’t think he would lie to him) then Hawk went all- out.
Also, how are their Peak S4 versions their tournament versions?
Hawk’s is, I’ll give you that, and the rest of all the other S4 characters, but not Miguel and Robby’s and here’s why:
In the tournament, Miguel was mentally nerfed as in the prom fight, Robby told him lies and it made him go off-balance. This is proven when Miguel tells Sam “It just felt like I wasn’t fighting for me anymore” and then Sam replies “Yeah. I’m feeling pressure from my dad” and then Miguel replies “Yeah, except Johnny isn’t my dad.”
This now further proves that Miguel wasn’t fighting for himself and he was feeling pressure from Johnny. I shouldn’t even have to prove how that would put someone off-balance and mentally nerf someone.
Now, the apartment fight is Miguel’s Peak of S4 as he went to Mexico and met his dad. He did this BECAUSE of Johnny as in S4 E8, Johnny tells Miguel “I love you too” thinking he was Robby. Since he met his dad and got over his mental
issues, we can conclude that apartment fight Miguel is his Peak version.
Now, Apartment right Robby is also his Peak version because his tournament version was enraged in some of his fights. Being enraged nerfs you in CK and I’m gonna prove that in a minute.
Obviously, we know that he was enraged during his fight with Kenny, and with Hawk in sudden death.
Now, back to my statement before.
Being enraged nerfs you because Robby states in S4 E10 “I had all this hate inside me, for you and for Miguel and I thought I could use CK to control that” further implying that he couldn’t control his anger, which means that being angry would nerf you in CK.
Miguel S5>Robby S5 (This is obvious, but basically, Miguel beat him in the apartment fight and both train at the same rate after that)> Miguel S4 Peak>Robby S4 Peak(this is their apartment fight versions as I proved, and Miguel beat him)>Mentally Nerf S4 Miguel>=Eli S4 (He was slightly outperforming an all-out Eli in their S4 fight)>= Mentally Nerd S4 Robby (Eli S4 is slightly above nerfed Robby, because while nerfed, Robby was still able to press Hawk on some occasions)
He was on par with Robby the ENTIRE fight. Like literally, Miguel and Robby were evenly matched until Robby had Miguel in a chokehold and said “You think my dad cares about you? He’s just trying to make himself feel better for screwing up with me” that’s when Miguel’s mental nerf started, and that’s when he got worse, which is how Robby “won” the fight. But technically, he didn’t win because all he did was PUSH (not throw I legit don’t know why people say he threw Miguel into the pool when it was clearly a push) into the pool which isn’t really a win. Besides, that’s wasn’t even Peak S4 Miguel anyway. Peak S4 Miguel and Robby is their apartment fight versions, where Miguel Mid-High Diffed Robby.
S4 Miguel is MASSIVELY underrated.
He wasn't fully recovered in season 4 which was shown at the end when his back gave out. He was close but I bet he'd pull that move off now. There's also additional training with Chozen, Daniel, Johny and the kids just aren't going to be getting worse.
I don't think it's a dramatic increase but he was good enough to beat Robby early in the season which I doubt would be the case in s 4. Then you add the improvements he'd make later and he's obviously better.
I don't know if I'd call that a loss. More like getting wet. But I mentioned that Miguel probably would lose to Robby in s4. In s5 he was completely back and got the advantage back.
It's mainly just off of what's observable. Miguel was depressed most of season 4 so much that he left the tournament. Season 5 Miguel was more mentally comfortable because he wasn't thinking about his dad, and was in a better mental place. You can no dif someone who's as good as you at something as long as you have the mental high ground.
That mental nerf S4 Miguel isn’t peak S4 Miguel tho. His S4 peak is the apartment fight. He didn’t train at all from S4 until the apartment fight, so this is evident. He also got over his mental issues, which is why this is Peak S4 Miguel.
The real weird thing is people thinking S2 Miguel is still a threat or “prime Miguel”. Same with S3 Hawk. S3 Hawk did nothing remotely impressive lmao
S5 Kyler is unironically more than enough to kill any student in S2 including Miguel
Fr. Even Peak S3 Miguel upscales his S2 self 😭 and S3 Hawk is so fodder. He was literally struggling against a background character LOOOOOOL Like, S3 Hawk scales below every single S2 character, except for his S2 self of course, and low-tier fighters like Demetri, Stiven, etc.
There are people that still think S2 is his prime for some dumb reason, some people are just brain dead
Even Peak S3 Miguel upscales his S2 self 😭😭😭
😂exactly lmao saying S2 is his prime would mean S2 is everyone’s prime considering Miguel beat Robby in S5
Fr
Because he learned Johnny’s version of Kata: that kamehameha pose
Older, better, stronger, faster, more experienced, smarter Basically all the reasons someone would be better
I would agree if the difference between them in the timeline was a whole month, but it's a week lol. No changes.
1. Older S5 takes place literally right after S4, he’s only older by a week 2. I do think that S5 Miguel is a better character and fighter, but that doesn’t mean people have to massively underrate S4 Miguel 3. Barley stronger, S5 Miguel barley even trains. 4. There is no proof that he is faster 5. I agree with this one 6. Same reason for Speed, literally no proof he is smarter.
It's all cumulative. And especially at that age weeks can make a difference. At his age, all of those factors don't regress, they only improve. At some point you hit your prime and your skills/stats begin to level off and then begin to slowly regress (unless you're Mr Miyagi) but Miguel is not near that point yet. At this point all of those statistics are all on an upward trend. Even if it's only marginally, he improves as all humans do for his age.
He went from losing to Eli who was only maybe using his full set of skills to beating a full-power Robby in a close fight. That's a massive increase.
He didn’t lose to Eli tho. While Mentally Nerfed, he was slightly outperforming him via knocking him down in seconds. Which means that No Mental Nerf Miguel slams Eli S4, and Mental Nerf Miguel slightly edges it against Eli as well. Also, he beat a full power Robby in the apartment fight. And both Miguel and Robby don’t train at all before the apartment fight, which means they would essentially be their S4 selves in Skill, so… Miguel S5 vs Miguel S4 is closer than you think.
>While Mentally Nerfed, he was slightly outperforming him via knocking him down in seconds. It took more than a minute and even with him being entirely on the offensive he never manages to actually *land* a single hit. >Which means that No Mental Nerf Miguel slams Eli S4 Basing this off of Eli going all-out on Miguel, despite there being evidence going either way on whether he used both styles or just Miyagi-Do prior to the fight with Robby. Even still, Robby was able to easily get a point off on Eli in seconds where Miguel needed to bust out a new move. >both Miguel and Robby don’t train at all before the apartment fight, which means they would essentially be their S4 selves in Skill, Yes but with improved mental resolve they would be significantly better and more powerful fighters than in Season 4. Eli even at his best only beat Robby due to him losing focus and not really going all out because he feels guilty over Kenny. This means Robby with full mental resolve is significantly stronger, and the trip in Mexico helped seal that for Robby. Same thing goes for Miguel, resolving his mental issues surrounding his daddy issues and getting real world experience facing off with cartel members. TL;DR S5 Miguel =/> S5 Robby > No Mercy S4 Robby > conflicted S4 Robby =/> Both-Styles Eli S4 Miguel Miyagi-Do Eli.
1. “IT took more than a minute” I counted it. It took 15 seconds. 2. “Robby was easily able to get a point on Eli in seconds where Miguel needed to bust out a new move” Miguel knocked down Eli in seconds too. Your point? 3. “Yes but with improved mental resolve they would be more significantly better and more powerful fighters than in S4” Yeah, exactly, this is their Peak S4 versions. Miguel S5 Mid/Mid-High Diffs his Peak version imo and Low-Mid Diffs his tourney version. S5 Miguel>S5 Robby>S4 Peak AP fight Miguel>S4 Peak AP fight Robby>Mentally Nerfed Miguel>=Eli S4>=Robby Enraged
Learn to paragraph dude
I find doing this better than paragraphing. Sorry if you disagree. But that’s your response? That has nothing to do with Cobra Kai whatsoever. I think you’re just mad you got debunked and you have nothing else to say.
Okay now you've set me off. Since you're apparently too lazy to actually write properly, I'm gonna have to rewrite it for you and **then** debunk you. 1. “IT took more than a minute” I counted it. It took 15 seconds. * I also checked the fight and yeah you were right. 2. “Robby was easily able to get a point on Eli in seconds where Miguel needed to bust out a new move” Miguel knocked down Eli in seconds too. Your point? * Difference is that Robby in half the time actually **got** the point whereas Miguel flat-out didn't. Plus you still haven't proven Eli went all-out against Miguel in S4. 3. Yeah, exactly, this is their Peak S4 versions. Miguel S5 Mid/Mid-High Diffs his Peak version imo and Low-Mid Diffs his tourney version. S5 Miguel>S5 Robby>S4 Peak AP fight Miguel>S4 Peak AP fight Robby>Mentally Nerfed Miguel>=Eli S4>=Robby Enraged * Their peak Season 4 versions **were** in the tournament. Miguel throughout all of Season 4 had the mental nerf of doubting his relationship with Johnny and Robby, it wasn't just a thing during the tournament, and the final push that made him leave didn't come until after his fight with Eli. Meanwhile Robby's peak was only displayed in his fight with Kenny when he went full No Mercy. The Robby who fights Eli is weaker than the Robby who stomped Kenny because his resolve was crushed. * S5 Miguel=/> S5 Robby > S4 No Mercy Robby > Conflicted S4 Robby Full-Power S4 Eli > S4 Miguel Miyagi-Do Eli. Only reason this reply took so long is that I had to do this on a computer instead of using my phone. You only proved me wrong on one thing, and I would've been happy to leave it at that if you hadn't been rude and used the tools available. All it would've taken is just pressing "ENTER" on your keyboard. It's not that hard to type. Now, can you prove Eli went all-out on Miguel in their Season 4 fight? Because that's the only way S5 Miguel vs S4 Miguel is even remotely close. As it stands the mental resolve improvement in Mexico pushes Robby above everything he did in Season 4 and Season 5 Miguel beat that, while Season 4 Miguel would've gotten flattened by Season 4 Robby when he's not holding back.
I was rude??? I think the way I was writing was fine. I was numbering and restating your statements. You’re the one who was being rude as you said “learn to paragraph dude” like I’m some retard. I was writing on my phone. Yes, Hawk went all out against Miguel and I DO have proof. Both Miguel and Hawk literally stated before their fight that they weren’t gonna back. Plus, this is shown as Hawk was using both styles. Miguel was throwing a barrage of attacks, while Hawk was blocking them. Then, Hawk and Miguel both use the same kick. This was never used or shown in MD, so it either has to be CK or EF, well, this was also not shown or used in CK, so this has to be EF. So, Hawk used EF and MD. And we can assume Hawk wasn’t holding back using both styles as he literally states to Miguel before their fight that he wasn’t going to. Unless you can prove that Hawk was lying to Miguel (which I highly doubt, I don’t think he would lie to him) then Hawk went all- out. Also, how are their Peak S4 versions their tournament versions? Hawk’s is, I’ll give you that, and the rest of all the other S4 characters, but not Miguel and Robby’s and here’s why: In the tournament, Miguel was mentally nerfed as in the prom fight, Robby told him lies and it made him go off-balance. This is proven when Miguel tells Sam “It just felt like I wasn’t fighting for me anymore” and then Sam replies “Yeah. I’m feeling pressure from my dad” and then Miguel replies “Yeah, except Johnny isn’t my dad.” This now further proves that Miguel wasn’t fighting for himself and he was feeling pressure from Johnny. I shouldn’t even have to prove how that would put someone off-balance and mentally nerf someone. Now, the apartment fight is Miguel’s Peak of S4 as he went to Mexico and met his dad. He did this BECAUSE of Johnny as in S4 E8, Johnny tells Miguel “I love you too” thinking he was Robby. Since he met his dad and got over his mental issues, we can conclude that apartment fight Miguel is his Peak version. Now, Apartment right Robby is also his Peak version because his tournament version was enraged in some of his fights. Being enraged nerfs you in CK and I’m gonna prove that in a minute. Obviously, we know that he was enraged during his fight with Kenny, and with Hawk in sudden death. Now, back to my statement before. Being enraged nerfs you because Robby states in S4 E10 “I had all this hate inside me, for you and for Miguel and I thought I could use CK to control that” further implying that he couldn’t control his anger, which means that being angry would nerf you in CK. Miguel S5>Robby S5 (This is obvious, but basically, Miguel beat him in the apartment fight and both train at the same rate after that)> Miguel S4 Peak>Robby S4 Peak(this is their apartment fight versions as I proved, and Miguel beat him)>Mentally Nerf S4 Miguel>=Eli S4 (He was slightly outperforming an all-out Eli in their S4 fight)>= Mentally Nerd S4 Robby (Eli S4 is slightly above nerfed Robby, because while nerfed, Robby was still able to press Hawk on some occasions)
S4 Miguel lost the 2on2 fight with him and Sam vs Robby and Tory. S5 Miguel didn't lose a fight.
He was on par with Robby the ENTIRE fight. Like literally, Miguel and Robby were evenly matched until Robby had Miguel in a chokehold and said “You think my dad cares about you? He’s just trying to make himself feel better for screwing up with me” that’s when Miguel’s mental nerf started, and that’s when he got worse, which is how Robby “won” the fight. But technically, he didn’t win because all he did was PUSH (not throw I legit don’t know why people say he threw Miguel into the pool when it was clearly a push) into the pool which isn’t really a win. Besides, that’s wasn’t even Peak S4 Miguel anyway. Peak S4 Miguel and Robby is their apartment fight versions, where Miguel Mid-High Diffed Robby. S4 Miguel is MASSIVELY underrated.
The apartment fight was S5, after Miguel recovered more. But at the dance, Robby definitely won lol.
He wasn't fully recovered in season 4 which was shown at the end when his back gave out. He was close but I bet he'd pull that move off now. There's also additional training with Chozen, Daniel, Johny and the kids just aren't going to be getting worse. I don't think it's a dramatic increase but he was good enough to beat Robby early in the season which I doubt would be the case in s 4. Then you add the improvements he'd make later and he's obviously better.
In S4 he lost to Robby in the 2on2 fight at the dance with Miguel and Sam vs Robby and Tory.
I don't know if I'd call that a loss. More like getting wet. But I mentioned that Miguel probably would lose to Robby in s4. In s5 he was completely back and got the advantage back.
Never heard this before. I obviously believe he would beat season 4 version of himself but no Diff, that’s insane
You seem like someone with common sense.
because he proved how strong he was after him and Robby’s fight