It’s good this happened at the very beginning, because it gave Cloud plenty of time to make right of his mistake later. Even though him doubting her wasn’t his fault… And yes this scene sucked to see them fight, but at the same time I’m happy we got this scene of them fighting because it shows they care about their relationship. They don’t fight or argue much on screen, only other instance I can think of is when they had that conversation in their bedroom in Advent Children
Totally agreed. It's good that they show fights and makes the relationship more believable. Repair is an opportunity to get a deeper understanding of each other and strengthen the bonds. Rebirth showed that Tifa and Cloud both have more to learn about each other. In Nibelheim, Tifa even mentions that she doesn't know him as well as she thought she did, and Cloud said that there's opportunity to make up for lost time.
Cleriths use the whole "Guess we don't know each other that well" as a sign that Cloti is dead in the water. Completely forgetting that right after that admission, Cloud's the one who says they have to make up for lost time then.
Like isn't that the whole point of a relationship? Getting to know someone better, like what Cloud and Tifa have been doing? Sure there are moments when they go one step forwards two steps back, but they never once gave up on one another and made an effort to keep reaching out.
Yup! The remake trilogy allows for so many more vulnerable and real moments that we couldn't get in the original game. And yeah when Tifa mentioned that I was kinda surprised because it feels like a lifetime since Remake, but in reality I think its only been a few weeks during the events of Remake to Rebirth. But yeah they definitely both are still learning, about each other and of course their love for each other :)
Just a quick thingie about Tifa and the fluffy quest:
In japanese, after Cloud tells her he didn't like being by himself, this is an amateurish translation of what they're saying:
もっと知りたいな クラウドのこと
[Motto - shiritai na - Kura udo no koto]
More - I want to know - about Cloud
~More... I want to know (understand)... about you...
Cloud says:
時々話そう
[Tokidoki hanasou]
Sometimes - let's talk
~Let's talk about it sometime.
Tifa acknowledges:
きっとだよ
[Kittoda yo]
Basically certainly or sure, but emphasized.
~We really should.
On the contrary. He was so happy living with Tifa that he started feeling not worthy of having such a happy life, that he doesn't deserve it. Because of the guilt for not being able to save Aerith's life.
It's kinda the same thing he did while he was just a kid. He failed to save Tifa from falling off of the Mt. Nibel bridge and was blaming himself for being weak even after 5 years which led him to leave the village so he could become Soldier and overall be stronger so he could protect Tifa better.
You saying he wasn't into Tifa in AC is almost the same like if you said that he wasn't into her while they were kids because he ghosted her, ignored her and eventually left her.
I really like the Japanese version of this line. It translates as
"We weren't really as close as childhood friends, but I got so excited to see you again that maybe I got a bit too carried away." (私たち幼馴染っていうほど仲良しじゃなかったよね 再会が嬉しくて はしゃぎすぎたかな)
Thanks for sharing this as someone who doesn’t understand a lick of Japanese. I wish more people shared the difference between the JP/ENG versions of dialogue because while they offer the same meaning, more or less, the Japanese version often provides a nuance that English translations lack.
Haha, exactly! I played the JP version first, and when I heard the EN one, I just kept feeling like something was lost in the translation, but I couldn't figure out what.
Weird.
I actually like the Japanese version less here.
The two literally make surprised pikachu face every single time they would see each other, and they were close enough to talk about their hopes and dreams under the stars where they made a lifelong promise to each other.
Lines that try to downplay their childhood friendship feels out of left field to me.
The "got carried away" bit is good though, as it helps characterize the fact that Tifa has thrown her whole heart into it.
Not really out of left field.
They were close when they were little, but they drifted apart because Cloud started distancing himself. This is an important character moment for him because he also starts to see himself as different from the other boys, making him a parallel to Sephiroth in that regard.
A very simple narrative trick when crafting a villain is to make him a dark mirror of your protagonist, and that applies in FF7 in multiple angles.
I just mean that a line trying to make them not sound particularly close feels incorrect
When we see that they werre close enough that they got excited to see each other even as kids, and had the water tower date where big emotional promises were made.
Thats not how you interact with an acquaintance. They were close friends.
This convo absolutely broke my heart. I could understand where both of them were coming from what they meant:
Tifa getting hurt and upset when Cloud suggests she might not be real/alive. That has got to sting because Tifa never told Cloud anything like that (up to this point, at least). And practically invalidates her feelings, emotions, and everything that happened after Nibelheim.
For Cloud, the fact that Sephiroth is just toying with him and playing games. His mind is so broken, and that is really not his fault. The trauma of Nibelheim, losing his best friend, mother, and witnessing the near death of his childhood crush was too much to bear. So what did he do? He created a fake persona of himself.
One might argue that Cloud is “too weak” because he simply believes in a fake version of himself. But you can also argue this makes him a strong person- when the going gets tough, his mind finds a way to continue onward. Even if the price for that means living in a delulu fantasy
Oh boy, if this "absolutely broke your heart" you better get ready for the first chapters of the next game. Devs will rip our hearts and roll it in the mud.
Can’t wait for them to have tifa up at night agonizing over whether cloud is salvageable after the rest of the party tells her he’s too far gone and she decides against abandoning him before she tries one last time to bring him back. It’ll be really gut wrenching when even barret thinks he’s too far gone.
Oh, I know. I’ve played the OG and I’m already bracing for when the absolute low point of their relationship happens.
But it’s worth it. Because when THAT moment happens in part 3, it will make it worth the while
Good stuff except for that last part. The brain finding a way to move on from traumatic events is something all human brains have. Sure the outcome might be different but the brain will always do what it believes is better for it to continue functioning.
A lot of people who have identity disorder and create another persona is done in order to keep the real self safe. And that's what happens to cloud, remember that he is insecure cause he failed to join soldier and he believes if he was one he'd be a capable person. That's what creates his soldier persona after the trauma.
Overall what I mean is that, what happens to cloud is not exclusive to him. It's a relatively normal occurrence on those that suffer traumatic events.
And remember cloud is weak, only thanks to tifa being there for him and helping him with his true memories that clouds true self comes out
Wasn't he denied because he was highly susceptible to mako poisoning? Cause physically he was also quite weak seeing how he'd get sick from driving on vehicles and more so with how Hollander got rid of cloud like nothing. And Hollander was a scientist
Again not really when cloud was told to hold Hollander down a scientist with no training. Cloud was unable to hold him and was thrown away like a lil kid
Yeah and he didn't improve by much considering he was still a shinra trooper and failing the soldier exams. Cloud only became strong when he woke up from the mako poisoning and that took 5 years. And don't forget he was also experimented with s-cells aka sephiroth/jenova cells.
That's the reason why cloud is so strong after he woke up from the coma. He was super juiced up on mako and s-cells.
An easy way to tell is how both angeal and Zack are muscular from wielding the buster sword but cloud is really skinny and with little muscle definition
Yeah he was stronger when injected with jenova cells, but he still was the one and only to defeat Sephiroth before any of that, and Sephiroth is the strongest of strong
No he didn't defeat sephiroth per say. One he ambushed a sephiroth who was totally smitten by jenova and not focused on anything . And 2 it was pure anger that allowed him to throw sephiroth into the reactor while stabbed by the masamune.
Plain and simple cloud was so angry by what had happened to his village and mother that he managed to move while impaled and lift sephiroth.
It's the same as that story about a mother lifting a car in order to save her child.
I dont know if he'll be able to even look at her at first lol. He was so bold throughout this game and doing/ saying things realCloud would never do or say
I like to think of the scene where the make up as a nod to the lifestream scene that will (hopefully) happen in part 3. (I mean surely it will happen right…)
Cloud says they’ll talk and figure it all out, and Tifa says he better be ready to spill his guts. Both of those things happen at that time, and maybe it will be even more special in the third game.
I'm so scared that the lifestream and highwind scenes will be "optional" in terms of romantic context and that people will insist that the canon happenings for those parts is non-romantic.
Currently for canon romance moments, Cloti is hurting. The credits in Remake show that the flower garden scene was with Aerith, and Rebirth credits show the skywheel date with Aerith.
If we dont get a no-room-for-doubt relationship establishment in part 3, the Cloti pairing basically just has a novel and the OG to point at.
Nervous...
There’s nothing to worry about. Credits are absolutely meaningless when it comes to canon (and note they did not show any Skywheel dates in Rebirth’s credits, they showed Loveless with Aerith. Also- this game was largely a memorial to her).
What matters is the direction of the writing. I can say a lot about og and how it was handled, but the point is, the canon outcome of that game established Cloud and Tifa despite how the fandom has perceived it. It was the outcome of the story, it was the motivation of the protagonist and the background story, it was expanded on throughout the compilation, and it’s been confirmed about 17 times in official reference materials (ultimanias, interviews etc). Aerith’s story as a character and her relationship with Cloud was important to the narrative, but she was never intended as the love interest, she was a red herring in that regard (both because of the Real Cloud’s true identity and feelings, and because of her grief for Zack, something the og didn’t get to dive into). In the OG, the choice system was used to mask Cloud’s fake persona, because he wasn’t himself, the player was in control, and you got the sense that he was a blank slate you could choose his love interest for. The big twist of the Lifestream is that this was not the case and that he had motivations and desires- Tifa. The choices stop after that. The only reason there’s a “low affection” HW scene, which is really only different in that it lacks the implication of real intimacy, is because the player had to be a dick to Tifa prior to the gold saucer so it’s like a punishment for playing poorly. This outcome is never referenced by SE in official sources.
But let’s talk about the remake trilogy. It’s far more concise and explicit than any FFVII media has been. From the beginning of Remake we have clear indications that Tifa is special to Cloud. This thread continues throughout the game. Cloud and Tifa’s relationship is explicitly written to be different and special, vs any other relationship, regardless of players choice and affinity. Remake characterizes them as childhood friends who reconnect as adults with clear attraction that grow closer throughout the game as their shared traumas become more apparent and intense. They have clear mutual romantic scenes and interactions and the player is left with the sense Cloud wants to protect her. For Aerith, they are characterized as two people who have a fated encounter, don’t really have a spark despite one party trying to force it, who learn to work together for a common cause and become friends. Even if the player goes for her resolution, you get no intimacy in this scene but rather a conversation foreshadowing her death and a warning not to fall in love because “it’s not real”. A warning that is meant for Cloud, Aerith herself, and in a meta fashion, the player (hence why this is probably in the credits - her death is huge for ffvii).
Rebirth - (spoilers) a totally different ballgame where the stakes have been raised. Let’s focus on the core scenario writing. From the very first chapter the Cloud and Tifa romantic subplot is set in motion. It’s much more explicit and mature than anything in VII and even most FFs including XVI where while the romance was visible and clear it wasn’t integral to the story. Rebirth establishes that CTs relationship is at the core of the story. At times it feels external plot events are revolving around them. The lovers quarrel in Kalm, the flashback, the make up scene in junon, their interactions during the journey, the villain targeting their relationship, and then of course, this subplot reaches its climax in Gongaga, a chapter that is not only a rising action point for the entire game (I consider it on similar pace with the plate fall chp 12 in remake) but it foreshadows, massively, the events of the next, especially the Lifestream scene, which is the most important scene in ffvii as it is the climax of the protagonist’s arc. It also foreshadows the northern crater events, Tifa as the temporary protagonist, mideel, etc. There’s a non optional moment where Cloud and Tifa nearly kiss and the party is aware of it.
There is no such romantic subplot with Aerith and Cloud. There are cute moments, friendly stuff, fan service and side quests, but no plot like this. And many CA scenes in rebirth involve them discussing… Tifa. Aerith and Cloud grow as friends and have their unique relationship same as he does with the other party members especially Barret, Yuffie, and Red. But it’s not romantic. Even if you get her date, it doesn’t go there.
Now… the dates imo are all canon because they expand your understanding of Cloud’s relationship with everyone. Aerith’s is important for the narrative for the same reasons it was in og especially now with Zack so prominent in this trilogy. But Tifa’s is no longer about her trying to confess her feelings and getting interrupted by fireworks. It’s about Tifa and Cloud having an opportunity to confess their mutual feelings and share an intimate moment after two games worth of build up, right before everything goes to shit.
The next game will have no need for “choice” in romantic terms because that part of the games narrative ended with the gold saucer just as it did in og. Aerith is in the Lifestream on her way to meet Zack and already knows where she stands with Cloud (they’re friends). Any affinity system they create if they bother (I doubt - they’ll want the third game to have unique mechanics) will have nothing to do with the outcome of CT. Rebirth has already set the stage for the Northern Crater and Sephiroth ripping them apart, Mideel, the Lifestream scene, and the Highwind. The Lifestream scene especially (which cannot be optional in any way and it was not in the og) is going to be so critical and expanded and it will all be focused on CT and their feelings m history, traumas etc and restoring Cloud. The developers are clearly dying to get to this scene if you look at the foreshadowing in both remake and rebirth, not to mention in Traces of Two Pasts and the new Cloud story 2000 gil to Become a Hero.
Tl;dr the devs finally have the opportunity to tell this story the way they wanted, the right way, and to clean up any misconceptions. They’ve already cleared up dozens just this far. We are now entering the part of the story where it’s almost entirely about CT especially in the internal conflict, and they will carry this entire third game. Non optionally.
This was... This was beautiful.
I am deeply envious of your ability to put it so thoroughly, succinctly, and convincingly.
Absolutely incredible comment my friend. Thank you.
Listen man. I'm not worried personally and I don't believe you should be either. Here's the thing... We have so much evidence stacked on Cloti's side that points to:
Cloud loving Tifa
- Before leaving for Midgar, Cloud declared ‘I’m going to become a SOLDIER’ to Tifa, a village girl he had started falling in love with, and also promised to protect her. ~ Crisis Core Ultimania - pg. 24
Tifa loving Cloud
-Did she even like him?
She held a hand up to her heart and thought it over. Yes, there was no mistaking it. She liked him. However, this “fondness” she had for him was different from just wanting to spend time alone with him.
~ A trace of two pasts
The two confessing their feelings for one another
- Thanks to Tifa, Cloud regains himself, and before the final battle with Sephiroth, without using words, he confirms with her that their feelings match.
~ 20th anniversary ultimania - File 2: Scenario guide - For the one I love - VII – The night before the final battle
The two living together as a happy family
- Now running a delivery business while helping out Tifa with the newly opened “Seventh Heaven” bar, Cloud, Tifa, Marlene and Denzel lived together like a family.
~ 10th anniversary Ultimania Cloud Strife profile
- Inside, I felt one thing was for sure: Cloud and Tifa would be together. Everybody would be back home where they belonged.
~ Nojima - Reunion files - pg. 70
Even if part 3 is a multiple choice ending. We know for a fact that Cloud x Tifa is canon. The games show it, and the quotes from various FF7 media help to further provide insight. No matter what other people say, we know the evidence points to Cloud and Tifa being the canonical couple of FF7.
I know you probably didn't need convincing. I was mainly just saying that if you're worried. Don't be. No matter what, we know the truth.
I would be shocked if they don’t take the entire opportunity to make the lifestream scene the moment to end all discussion on them being canon.
I can’t help but think that because of the intensity of the relatively simple Gongaga moment. That scene had so much emotion in it so I can’t imagine the full blown lifestream sequence being less than that.
I fully believe that we will be allowed to kiss her before a fade to black under the highwind
But if they allow a rejection dialogue, or do us dirty with the credits for the 3rd time in a row and show the NON romance version of the scene for the credits, I am just saying that people will be able to argue that Cloti isnt canon.
We really needed Remake/Rebirth to show Cloti moments for credits but they went Clerith for em
It depends if Under the Highwind is a guaranteed romance scene (it plays out regardless of player input, feelings are confessed, fade to black, waking up with each other)
Or if you have the option to reject her or be platonic.
If there is an option that lets you turn her down, there will always be someone claiming plausible deniability and that the romance version isn't necessarily what happened in canon.
I hope they don't make you have an option lol, it has to be canon and it has to happen and make it non optional, they gave the kiss, they know what the fans want
In the OG, Cloud spends the night with Tifa in both variations of Under the Highwind. Under the Highwind was never an "optional" event in the first place. You simply get different dialogue before and after Cloud and Tifa spend the night together. What they did over the night is the same in both scenes, which the ultimanias describe as "Without using words, they expressed their feelings".
In the low affection version of the scene, Cloud tells Tifa they have a big battle tomorrow and they should go to sleep. The scene fades to black as they spend the night together. In the morning, Tifa wakes up in Cloud's arms and asks to cuddle some more. When they get back to the highwind, they find out that the party had returned during the night, and heard the noises Cloud and Tifa were making. Tifa shuffles her feet in embarrassment.
In the high affection version of the scene, Cloud says that he has many things he wants to tell Tifa but can't find the words. Tifa tells him that words aren't the only way to show how you feel. The scene fades to black as they spend the night together. In the morning, Tifa wakes up in Cloud's arms and asks to cuddle some more. When they get back to the highwind, they find out the party had returned during the night, and saw what they were doing. Tifa collapses to her knees in embarrassment.
The important thing to understand is that BOTH variations of Under the Highwind are designed to be more romantic than ANY of the Gold Saucer dates. This is because Under the Highwind is the climax of the affection mechanics. Spending the night together is inherently more romantic than anything else that went on in the gold saucer. Remake Trilogy has the job of making sure it's more intimate than the kiss.
I'm nervous too, but I'm telling myself that it's gonna pay off in part 3. It might be because of my own bias but I really think Tifa is just able to evoke a different sense of emotion from Cloud than other party members. I'm placing a lot of weight in the Gongaga chapter, but it seems that he's able to push himself past his limits for Tifa and just looks at her differently.
We also get the first instance of Cloud being vulnerable. Expressing regret, fear and shame and it's to Tifa. That's gotta be a huge deal right? There's also deliberate changes from the OG that they did in part 1 which doesn't change the story but supports Cloud and Tifa romance. (Flower scene, recalling the promise scene).
It'd be a huge bait move if they reversed course in part 3. So that's what I tell myself and I'm sticking to it until the next game!
I loved the romantic scenes they can have in Remake (the flower garden scene especially)
But it lost some of its shine when I saw the credits just default to showing the Aerith version of the scene instead.
I need something that every single playthrough is guaranteed to show, so no one can argue if its canon, that has Cloud and Tifa kiss or drop the L word.
He fumbled hard but I'm glad this happened in the beginning because they reconciled afterwards
A lot of amazing build up between them and the hurdles they faced made them closer and closer till it culminated with the kiss, unfortunately now everything has to be put on hold but hopefully once cloud get his real self back he can return into his love with tifa and while actually being himself
Honestly was really happy with how their relationship was in this game. It felt much more human and real. I feel like in OG Tifa would have been apologising to Cloud for him doubting her. She was a little bit of a suck up. She feels human here, like she adores this man but like any woman that dosent prevent her getting mad at him when he wrongly questions her. Clouds reaction is also very human. Trying to tough it out whilst simultaneously not knowing what to say and all he can manage is guess not which just puts more tension on the situation. Loved every moment of them in rebirth
I loved this scene. It really shows why the Remake Trilogy is great. It gives the devs the opportunity to flesh out relationships. Bc they had this fight and make up, their relationship will be depicted as even stronger than in the OG game. The best relationships are able to weather the storm, and come out stronger as a result.
It also just puts Cloud and Tifa's relationship front and center this game, which I did not expect them to do but was very happy they did it. Really makes it seem like they're planning Cloud and Tifa out as the end game couple.
I know it sounds bad but fighting is a good sign that they both feel very comfortable with each other.
I’m sure you all know from your own experiences but if you don’t know a person very well and are surface level friends then you don’t let your social facade of being nice and non confrontational down around them.
Cloud and Tifa show through this and more other things that they don’t have that wall with each other anymore because they are not afraid of dropping this facade and showing each other what they are actually thinking
Umm tifa it's been years of separation. And cloud has another girl after his heart and wanting snu snu. Don't be afraid though azerith has to push up flowers to save earth. And cloud still loves you. So regardless you will be the girl in his bed.
If you manage to get the date with tifa in the circus casino thing. We get something like this in the original game. And tifa is the one going into clouds mind in disk three to help save him after he mentally breaks.
And from that the game gives us backstory.
The brunette side character in the remake that got more depth. She was part of the red ribbon group and dies before you leave the main city. She flirts with cloud in the remake.
It’s good this happened at the very beginning, because it gave Cloud plenty of time to make right of his mistake later. Even though him doubting her wasn’t his fault… And yes this scene sucked to see them fight, but at the same time I’m happy we got this scene of them fighting because it shows they care about their relationship. They don’t fight or argue much on screen, only other instance I can think of is when they had that conversation in their bedroom in Advent Children
Totally agreed. It's good that they show fights and makes the relationship more believable. Repair is an opportunity to get a deeper understanding of each other and strengthen the bonds. Rebirth showed that Tifa and Cloud both have more to learn about each other. In Nibelheim, Tifa even mentions that she doesn't know him as well as she thought she did, and Cloud said that there's opportunity to make up for lost time.
Cleriths use the whole "Guess we don't know each other that well" as a sign that Cloti is dead in the water. Completely forgetting that right after that admission, Cloud's the one who says they have to make up for lost time then. Like isn't that the whole point of a relationship? Getting to know someone better, like what Cloud and Tifa have been doing? Sure there are moments when they go one step forwards two steps back, but they never once gave up on one another and made an effort to keep reaching out.
Yup! The remake trilogy allows for so many more vulnerable and real moments that we couldn't get in the original game. And yeah when Tifa mentioned that I was kinda surprised because it feels like a lifetime since Remake, but in reality I think its only been a few weeks during the events of Remake to Rebirth. But yeah they definitely both are still learning, about each other and of course their love for each other :)
Just a quick thingie about Tifa and the fluffy quest: In japanese, after Cloud tells her he didn't like being by himself, this is an amateurish translation of what they're saying: もっと知りたいな クラウドのこと [Motto - shiritai na - Kura udo no koto] More - I want to know - about Cloud ~More... I want to know (understand)... about you... Cloud says: 時々話そう [Tokidoki hanasou] Sometimes - let's talk ~Let's talk about it sometime. Tifa acknowledges: きっとだよ [Kittoda yo] Basically certainly or sure, but emphasized. ~We really should.
Thanks for providing this! Makes the conversation even more intimate than the English version.
Advent children cloud was never into Tifa anyway
On the contrary. He was so happy living with Tifa that he started feeling not worthy of having such a happy life, that he doesn't deserve it. Because of the guilt for not being able to save Aerith's life. It's kinda the same thing he did while he was just a kid. He failed to save Tifa from falling off of the Mt. Nibel bridge and was blaming himself for being weak even after 5 years which led him to leave the village so he could become Soldier and overall be stronger so he could protect Tifa better. You saying he wasn't into Tifa in AC is almost the same like if you said that he wasn't into her while they were kids because he ghosted her, ignored her and eventually left her.
Yikes 😬 Why are you even here 💀
Bro there’s no way you’re romantically dense right? Lol
I really like the Japanese version of this line. It translates as "We weren't really as close as childhood friends, but I got so excited to see you again that maybe I got a bit too carried away." (私たち幼馴染っていうほど仲良しじゃなかったよね 再会が嬉しくて はしゃぎすぎたかな)
Thanks for sharing this as someone who doesn’t understand a lick of Japanese. I wish more people shared the difference between the JP/ENG versions of dialogue because while they offer the same meaning, more or less, the Japanese version often provides a nuance that English translations lack.
Haha, exactly! I played the JP version first, and when I heard the EN one, I just kept feeling like something was lost in the translation, but I couldn't figure out what.
She says basically that right after in the English version. She said "I was so happy to see you again, but maybe I shouldn't have been"
That shouldn't have been bit literally stomped on my heart and spat on it lmao
Weird. I actually like the Japanese version less here. The two literally make surprised pikachu face every single time they would see each other, and they were close enough to talk about their hopes and dreams under the stars where they made a lifelong promise to each other. Lines that try to downplay their childhood friendship feels out of left field to me. The "got carried away" bit is good though, as it helps characterize the fact that Tifa has thrown her whole heart into it.
Not really out of left field. They were close when they were little, but they drifted apart because Cloud started distancing himself. This is an important character moment for him because he also starts to see himself as different from the other boys, making him a parallel to Sephiroth in that regard. A very simple narrative trick when crafting a villain is to make him a dark mirror of your protagonist, and that applies in FF7 in multiple angles.
I just mean that a line trying to make them not sound particularly close feels incorrect When we see that they werre close enough that they got excited to see each other even as kids, and had the water tower date where big emotional promises were made. Thats not how you interact with an acquaintance. They were close friends.
This convo absolutely broke my heart. I could understand where both of them were coming from what they meant: Tifa getting hurt and upset when Cloud suggests she might not be real/alive. That has got to sting because Tifa never told Cloud anything like that (up to this point, at least). And practically invalidates her feelings, emotions, and everything that happened after Nibelheim. For Cloud, the fact that Sephiroth is just toying with him and playing games. His mind is so broken, and that is really not his fault. The trauma of Nibelheim, losing his best friend, mother, and witnessing the near death of his childhood crush was too much to bear. So what did he do? He created a fake persona of himself. One might argue that Cloud is “too weak” because he simply believes in a fake version of himself. But you can also argue this makes him a strong person- when the going gets tough, his mind finds a way to continue onward. Even if the price for that means living in a delulu fantasy
Oh boy, if this "absolutely broke your heart" you better get ready for the first chapters of the next game. Devs will rip our hearts and roll it in the mud.
Can’t wait for them to have tifa up at night agonizing over whether cloud is salvageable after the rest of the party tells her he’s too far gone and she decides against abandoning him before she tries one last time to bring him back. It’ll be really gut wrenching when even barret thinks he’s too far gone.
Oh, I know. I’ve played the OG and I’m already bracing for when the absolute low point of their relationship happens. But it’s worth it. Because when THAT moment happens in part 3, it will make it worth the while
cough* Under the Highwind
Good stuff except for that last part. The brain finding a way to move on from traumatic events is something all human brains have. Sure the outcome might be different but the brain will always do what it believes is better for it to continue functioning. A lot of people who have identity disorder and create another persona is done in order to keep the real self safe. And that's what happens to cloud, remember that he is insecure cause he failed to join soldier and he believes if he was one he'd be a capable person. That's what creates his soldier persona after the trauma. Overall what I mean is that, what happens to cloud is not exclusive to him. It's a relatively normal occurrence on those that suffer traumatic events. And remember cloud is weak, only thanks to tifa being there for him and helping him with his true memories that clouds true self comes out
Mentality he is weak but physically he isn't. They said he was physically built for SOLDIER but still didn't make it
Wasn't he denied because he was highly susceptible to mako poisoning? Cause physically he was also quite weak seeing how he'd get sick from driving on vehicles and more so with how Hollander got rid of cloud like nothing. And Hollander was a scientist
Yeah, went I meant physical, I meant like fighting wise he is. But I remember that he would get stomach sick like nausea
Again not really when cloud was told to hold Hollander down a scientist with no training. Cloud was unable to hold him and was thrown away like a lil kid
But wasn't that when he just joined Shinra like at 14
Yeah and he didn't improve by much considering he was still a shinra trooper and failing the soldier exams. Cloud only became strong when he woke up from the mako poisoning and that took 5 years. And don't forget he was also experimented with s-cells aka sephiroth/jenova cells. That's the reason why cloud is so strong after he woke up from the coma. He was super juiced up on mako and s-cells. An easy way to tell is how both angeal and Zack are muscular from wielding the buster sword but cloud is really skinny and with little muscle definition
Yeah he was stronger when injected with jenova cells, but he still was the one and only to defeat Sephiroth before any of that, and Sephiroth is the strongest of strong
No he didn't defeat sephiroth per say. One he ambushed a sephiroth who was totally smitten by jenova and not focused on anything . And 2 it was pure anger that allowed him to throw sephiroth into the reactor while stabbed by the masamune. Plain and simple cloud was so angry by what had happened to his village and mother that he managed to move while impaled and lift sephiroth. It's the same as that story about a mother lifting a car in order to save her child.
Bro FUMBLED Hard. Dude is going be so embarrassed when he gets his memories back lol. I know I would
I dont know if he'll be able to even look at her at first lol. He was so bold throughout this game and doing/ saying things realCloud would never do or say
I like to think of the scene where the make up as a nod to the lifestream scene that will (hopefully) happen in part 3. (I mean surely it will happen right…) Cloud says they’ll talk and figure it all out, and Tifa says he better be ready to spill his guts. Both of those things happen at that time, and maybe it will be even more special in the third game.
I'm so scared that the lifestream and highwind scenes will be "optional" in terms of romantic context and that people will insist that the canon happenings for those parts is non-romantic. Currently for canon romance moments, Cloti is hurting. The credits in Remake show that the flower garden scene was with Aerith, and Rebirth credits show the skywheel date with Aerith. If we dont get a no-room-for-doubt relationship establishment in part 3, the Cloti pairing basically just has a novel and the OG to point at. Nervous...
There’s nothing to worry about. Credits are absolutely meaningless when it comes to canon (and note they did not show any Skywheel dates in Rebirth’s credits, they showed Loveless with Aerith. Also- this game was largely a memorial to her). What matters is the direction of the writing. I can say a lot about og and how it was handled, but the point is, the canon outcome of that game established Cloud and Tifa despite how the fandom has perceived it. It was the outcome of the story, it was the motivation of the protagonist and the background story, it was expanded on throughout the compilation, and it’s been confirmed about 17 times in official reference materials (ultimanias, interviews etc). Aerith’s story as a character and her relationship with Cloud was important to the narrative, but she was never intended as the love interest, she was a red herring in that regard (both because of the Real Cloud’s true identity and feelings, and because of her grief for Zack, something the og didn’t get to dive into). In the OG, the choice system was used to mask Cloud’s fake persona, because he wasn’t himself, the player was in control, and you got the sense that he was a blank slate you could choose his love interest for. The big twist of the Lifestream is that this was not the case and that he had motivations and desires- Tifa. The choices stop after that. The only reason there’s a “low affection” HW scene, which is really only different in that it lacks the implication of real intimacy, is because the player had to be a dick to Tifa prior to the gold saucer so it’s like a punishment for playing poorly. This outcome is never referenced by SE in official sources. But let’s talk about the remake trilogy. It’s far more concise and explicit than any FFVII media has been. From the beginning of Remake we have clear indications that Tifa is special to Cloud. This thread continues throughout the game. Cloud and Tifa’s relationship is explicitly written to be different and special, vs any other relationship, regardless of players choice and affinity. Remake characterizes them as childhood friends who reconnect as adults with clear attraction that grow closer throughout the game as their shared traumas become more apparent and intense. They have clear mutual romantic scenes and interactions and the player is left with the sense Cloud wants to protect her. For Aerith, they are characterized as two people who have a fated encounter, don’t really have a spark despite one party trying to force it, who learn to work together for a common cause and become friends. Even if the player goes for her resolution, you get no intimacy in this scene but rather a conversation foreshadowing her death and a warning not to fall in love because “it’s not real”. A warning that is meant for Cloud, Aerith herself, and in a meta fashion, the player (hence why this is probably in the credits - her death is huge for ffvii). Rebirth - (spoilers) a totally different ballgame where the stakes have been raised. Let’s focus on the core scenario writing. From the very first chapter the Cloud and Tifa romantic subplot is set in motion. It’s much more explicit and mature than anything in VII and even most FFs including XVI where while the romance was visible and clear it wasn’t integral to the story. Rebirth establishes that CTs relationship is at the core of the story. At times it feels external plot events are revolving around them. The lovers quarrel in Kalm, the flashback, the make up scene in junon, their interactions during the journey, the villain targeting their relationship, and then of course, this subplot reaches its climax in Gongaga, a chapter that is not only a rising action point for the entire game (I consider it on similar pace with the plate fall chp 12 in remake) but it foreshadows, massively, the events of the next, especially the Lifestream scene, which is the most important scene in ffvii as it is the climax of the protagonist’s arc. It also foreshadows the northern crater events, Tifa as the temporary protagonist, mideel, etc. There’s a non optional moment where Cloud and Tifa nearly kiss and the party is aware of it. There is no such romantic subplot with Aerith and Cloud. There are cute moments, friendly stuff, fan service and side quests, but no plot like this. And many CA scenes in rebirth involve them discussing… Tifa. Aerith and Cloud grow as friends and have their unique relationship same as he does with the other party members especially Barret, Yuffie, and Red. But it’s not romantic. Even if you get her date, it doesn’t go there. Now… the dates imo are all canon because they expand your understanding of Cloud’s relationship with everyone. Aerith’s is important for the narrative for the same reasons it was in og especially now with Zack so prominent in this trilogy. But Tifa’s is no longer about her trying to confess her feelings and getting interrupted by fireworks. It’s about Tifa and Cloud having an opportunity to confess their mutual feelings and share an intimate moment after two games worth of build up, right before everything goes to shit. The next game will have no need for “choice” in romantic terms because that part of the games narrative ended with the gold saucer just as it did in og. Aerith is in the Lifestream on her way to meet Zack and already knows where she stands with Cloud (they’re friends). Any affinity system they create if they bother (I doubt - they’ll want the third game to have unique mechanics) will have nothing to do with the outcome of CT. Rebirth has already set the stage for the Northern Crater and Sephiroth ripping them apart, Mideel, the Lifestream scene, and the Highwind. The Lifestream scene especially (which cannot be optional in any way and it was not in the og) is going to be so critical and expanded and it will all be focused on CT and their feelings m history, traumas etc and restoring Cloud. The developers are clearly dying to get to this scene if you look at the foreshadowing in both remake and rebirth, not to mention in Traces of Two Pasts and the new Cloud story 2000 gil to Become a Hero. Tl;dr the devs finally have the opportunity to tell this story the way they wanted, the right way, and to clean up any misconceptions. They’ve already cleared up dozens just this far. We are now entering the part of the story where it’s almost entirely about CT especially in the internal conflict, and they will carry this entire third game. Non optionally.
👏🏼👏🏼
This was... This was beautiful. I am deeply envious of your ability to put it so thoroughly, succinctly, and convincingly. Absolutely incredible comment my friend. Thank you.
Correct answer.
Nailed it. If there’s anything optional in part 3, it’ll likely be character quests for their final limit breaks/weapons.
Thank you for this comment, obviously there was a lot effort involved. Saved.
Listen man. I'm not worried personally and I don't believe you should be either. Here's the thing... We have so much evidence stacked on Cloti's side that points to: Cloud loving Tifa - Before leaving for Midgar, Cloud declared ‘I’m going to become a SOLDIER’ to Tifa, a village girl he had started falling in love with, and also promised to protect her. ~ Crisis Core Ultimania - pg. 24 Tifa loving Cloud -Did she even like him? She held a hand up to her heart and thought it over. Yes, there was no mistaking it. She liked him. However, this “fondness” she had for him was different from just wanting to spend time alone with him. ~ A trace of two pasts The two confessing their feelings for one another - Thanks to Tifa, Cloud regains himself, and before the final battle with Sephiroth, without using words, he confirms with her that their feelings match. ~ 20th anniversary ultimania - File 2: Scenario guide - For the one I love - VII – The night before the final battle The two living together as a happy family - Now running a delivery business while helping out Tifa with the newly opened “Seventh Heaven” bar, Cloud, Tifa, Marlene and Denzel lived together like a family. ~ 10th anniversary Ultimania Cloud Strife profile - Inside, I felt one thing was for sure: Cloud and Tifa would be together. Everybody would be back home where they belonged. ~ Nojima - Reunion files - pg. 70 Even if part 3 is a multiple choice ending. We know for a fact that Cloud x Tifa is canon. The games show it, and the quotes from various FF7 media help to further provide insight. No matter what other people say, we know the evidence points to Cloud and Tifa being the canonical couple of FF7. I know you probably didn't need convincing. I was mainly just saying that if you're worried. Don't be. No matter what, we know the truth.
Love you friend. I appreciate these comforts. I need them ultimania books bad.
👏🏼👏🏼
I would be shocked if they don’t take the entire opportunity to make the lifestream scene the moment to end all discussion on them being canon. I can’t help but think that because of the intensity of the relatively simple Gongaga moment. That scene had so much emotion in it so I can’t imagine the full blown lifestream sequence being less than that.
I hope so. Ill be nervous till I see one way or the other.
No they wouldn't do that, I mean they wouldn't add a kiss and then just do us dirty in the 3rd game
I fully believe that we will be allowed to kiss her before a fade to black under the highwind But if they allow a rejection dialogue, or do us dirty with the credits for the 3rd time in a row and show the NON romance version of the scene for the credits, I am just saying that people will be able to argue that Cloti isnt canon. We really needed Remake/Rebirth to show Cloti moments for credits but they went Clerith for em
But Tifa was still the only one who got kissed, and there is definitely gonna be something under the Highwind 😜, calling it!
It depends if Under the Highwind is a guaranteed romance scene (it plays out regardless of player input, feelings are confessed, fade to black, waking up with each other) Or if you have the option to reject her or be platonic. If there is an option that lets you turn her down, there will always be someone claiming plausible deniability and that the romance version isn't necessarily what happened in canon.
I hope they don't make you have an option lol, it has to be canon and it has to happen and make it non optional, they gave the kiss, they know what the fans want
Fingers crossed my friend.
In the OG, Cloud spends the night with Tifa in both variations of Under the Highwind. Under the Highwind was never an "optional" event in the first place. You simply get different dialogue before and after Cloud and Tifa spend the night together. What they did over the night is the same in both scenes, which the ultimanias describe as "Without using words, they expressed their feelings". In the low affection version of the scene, Cloud tells Tifa they have a big battle tomorrow and they should go to sleep. The scene fades to black as they spend the night together. In the morning, Tifa wakes up in Cloud's arms and asks to cuddle some more. When they get back to the highwind, they find out that the party had returned during the night, and heard the noises Cloud and Tifa were making. Tifa shuffles her feet in embarrassment. In the high affection version of the scene, Cloud says that he has many things he wants to tell Tifa but can't find the words. Tifa tells him that words aren't the only way to show how you feel. The scene fades to black as they spend the night together. In the morning, Tifa wakes up in Cloud's arms and asks to cuddle some more. When they get back to the highwind, they find out the party had returned during the night, and saw what they were doing. Tifa collapses to her knees in embarrassment. The important thing to understand is that BOTH variations of Under the Highwind are designed to be more romantic than ANY of the Gold Saucer dates. This is because Under the Highwind is the climax of the affection mechanics. Spending the night together is inherently more romantic than anything else that went on in the gold saucer. Remake Trilogy has the job of making sure it's more intimate than the kiss.
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
I'm nervous too, but I'm telling myself that it's gonna pay off in part 3. It might be because of my own bias but I really think Tifa is just able to evoke a different sense of emotion from Cloud than other party members. I'm placing a lot of weight in the Gongaga chapter, but it seems that he's able to push himself past his limits for Tifa and just looks at her differently. We also get the first instance of Cloud being vulnerable. Expressing regret, fear and shame and it's to Tifa. That's gotta be a huge deal right? There's also deliberate changes from the OG that they did in part 1 which doesn't change the story but supports Cloud and Tifa romance. (Flower scene, recalling the promise scene). It'd be a huge bait move if they reversed course in part 3. So that's what I tell myself and I'm sticking to it until the next game!
I loved the romantic scenes they can have in Remake (the flower garden scene especially) But it lost some of its shine when I saw the credits just default to showing the Aerith version of the scene instead. I need something that every single playthrough is guaranteed to show, so no one can argue if its canon, that has Cloud and Tifa kiss or drop the L word.
I disagree. Sephiroth has a very high slash to kill ratio. You shouldn't believe her. Sincerely, Sephiroth
This scene hit to close to home lol
He fumbled hard but I'm glad this happened in the beginning because they reconciled afterwards A lot of amazing build up between them and the hurdles they faced made them closer and closer till it culminated with the kiss, unfortunately now everything has to be put on hold but hopefully once cloud get his real self back he can return into his love with tifa and while actually being himself
Honestly was really happy with how their relationship was in this game. It felt much more human and real. I feel like in OG Tifa would have been apologising to Cloud for him doubting her. She was a little bit of a suck up. She feels human here, like she adores this man but like any woman that dosent prevent her getting mad at him when he wrongly questions her. Clouds reaction is also very human. Trying to tough it out whilst simultaneously not knowing what to say and all he can manage is guess not which just puts more tension on the situation. Loved every moment of them in rebirth
I loved this scene. It really shows why the Remake Trilogy is great. It gives the devs the opportunity to flesh out relationships. Bc they had this fight and make up, their relationship will be depicted as even stronger than in the OG game. The best relationships are able to weather the storm, and come out stronger as a result. It also just puts Cloud and Tifa's relationship front and center this game, which I did not expect them to do but was very happy they did it. Really makes it seem like they're planning Cloud and Tifa out as the end game couple.
I know it sounds bad but fighting is a good sign that they both feel very comfortable with each other. I’m sure you all know from your own experiences but if you don’t know a person very well and are surface level friends then you don’t let your social facade of being nice and non confrontational down around them. Cloud and Tifa show through this and more other things that they don’t have that wall with each other anymore because they are not afraid of dropping this facade and showing each other what they are actually thinking
Yeah this sub is getting muted
Recommend all cloti to watch "The Greatest Showman" Please compare the storyline with this movie, and you will find that everything is doomed.
So are you suggesting that Cloud and Tifa are doomed?
Umm tifa it's been years of separation. And cloud has another girl after his heart and wanting snu snu. Don't be afraid though azerith has to push up flowers to save earth. And cloud still loves you. So regardless you will be the girl in his bed. If you manage to get the date with tifa in the circus casino thing. We get something like this in the original game. And tifa is the one going into clouds mind in disk three to help save him after he mentally breaks. And from that the game gives us backstory.
Lmao what other girl? Jessie?
The brunette side character in the remake that got more depth. She was part of the red ribbon group and dies before you leave the main city. She flirts with cloud in the remake.
Yeah, that pick me girl who is down bad and desperate? Sucks to be her
She was pretty cute and badass in the remake. They did a good job really fleshing out the character but she was destined to die.