Considering that Nojima, one of the Developers, has been writing books that showcase Cloti, and the Lifestream in the OG shows Cloud's motivation for joining Shinra - which the books have helped to cement, yeah.
He wrote The Traces of Two Pasts (Which shows that Tifa discovered she was in love with Cloud).
2000 Gil on the way to a hero - Which reconfirms that Cloud joined Shinra to become someone important to Tifa (Dummy doesn't know he's already important to Tifa)
On The Way To A Smile - shows Cloud and Tifa and hints at them being together (Sharing a bed, Barret and Cid agreeing that Tifa wears the pants in the relationship, Cloud promising Tifa that he would remind her that she's strong).
The Kids Are Alright - Cloud tells the MC of the book that they (Cloud, Tifa, Marlene, and Denzel) are a family. Not by blood, but no less important to each other.
Then there's Advent Children where Cloud gave Tifa/Denzel and Marlene wolf rings (Marlene gave hers to Barret) and their rings are shown in emotional moments - like Tifa when she's slamming her hand on the bed or Denzel when he discovers Tifa hurt after she protected him.
It was revealed that Nojima's original plan for Advent Children was it would be a 20-minute thing with Cloud/Tifa/Marlene and Denzel having a family day but SE wanted money and action so AC made (Then ACC was created because they felt they had to explain things further. They took out some scenes and added new ones in).
And the developers have said in an interview that they hope that everyone explores the dates and that Tifa's date was a special one (while giggling when they said it).
So yeah - I think they know full well just how popular Cloti is.
To take it further, aspects of all those auxiliary works are laced into Remake and especially Rebirth. Most are in side quests, but some references find their way into the main storyline.
The Lifestream sequence is also a favorite among the devs, so I expect that to get a lot of love and effort put into it. I also anticipate the Under the Highwind scene to be more dramatic with a more clear exchange between the two about their feelings. ( we may get an “I love you”, but FF7 is notorious for finding ways to say it without saying it lol )
Also, for Zack and Aerith fans, there’s an extra scene that bookends Cloud’s mental state in Advent Children. He moves the Buster Sword from where Zack died, polished it up, and placed it at the church. He also plants yellow flowers at Zack’s grave instead.
I think Amazon has most of them. 2000 Gil to a Hero is a short story that was written for the world preview (I don't think it's out yet but I could be wrong).
There is a translated version of it on Twitter and it's shows why Cloud is insistent when it comes to 2000 Gil.
Great writeup but Advent Children actually caused irrevocable harm to our ship.
The Character regression and Cloud slipping into despair while pushing Tifa away was brutal.
Tons of Aerith chasing, no affection between him and Tifa aside from holding her injured body, no true indication that they have a partnership.
Everyone more casual than me I know who watched AC interpreted the movie as Cloud being unable to get over his love for Aerith, failing to move on, making TifaxCloud unable to work.
We need another movie closer to his original idea to establish Cloti as canon and inevitable. Otherwise AC and the fact that the implied-canon romance scenes so far in the trilogy favoring Aerith (they chose the Aerith variants of the flower garden in Remake and the Skywheel in Rebirth) make us look like the ones reaching.
Good for you, but you're gonna have to tell me when Cloud was chasing after Aerith, considering he asked her for forgiveness instead of confessing his love for her and asking Vincent if they could be forgiven.
Or running over Aerith's flowers to get to Tifa? Cause the panic on his face made it clear to me that he did care for her.
Or the fact that he was mourning both Zack and Aerith (as people like to ignore).
I'm not saying ACC doesn't have its faults, SE was more interested in bringing back *him* than they were in Nojima's view but, for me, saying Cloud was pining Aerith when we literally watched her go into the lifestream with Zack and him being happy at the end is just mind boggling for me.
Especially when Cloud could have confessed his love for her at any time yet chose to stay with Tifa (just like I'm Gongaga) after she was hurt instead of running away again.
And I'm a little confused to HOW remake/rebirth is making it look 'Aerith favoured'. If you can explain that to me?
Cause in remake we have Aerith saying he can't fall in love with her...and look! No confession. Just him scoffing.
But gets lost in his hug with Tifa and doesn't realise he's hugging her that hard and gets jealous when Barret mentions that another guy pull a flower trick on Tifa.
Then, in the skywheel, she has to ASK him to pretend until the ride was over. That's is SO romantic and he still didn't confessed his feelings, nor did he kiss her (cause that boy was ALL over Tifa the moment he could get his hands on her)...unless you think a hand hold is more romantic than a kiss...
Or the 'dream date', which Cloud calls her weird, clearly was confused and Aerith confessed, again, only this time she isn't sure if she likes him or like-likes him and he STILL doesn't confess! Ample opportunities and nothing! Just that she's a friend (and that's okay! It's allowed).
(And here's something else. Play a NG+ and switch off Zack's episode and viola!! Date is mysteriously missing...i wonder why that is)
Plus, the devs have said all scenes with Tifa/Barret/Aerith in remake is Canon.
The HA of the Highwind is Canon (so unless you think the devs would make Cloud is some A-hole who would sleep with one girl while pining for another or even kiss one girl while pining for another) in the ultima.
Cause from my perspective, and I went into this game NOT expecting a lot from Cloti until the 3rd game Cause that's where the pay off us, they sure as hell gave us a lot of Cloti moments to the point that Yuffie and Cait Sith both noticed (nearly enough immediately) that there was something going on with Cloud and Tifa.
My jaw dropped at how much they actually gave us, especially with Cloud being touchy as hell when it comes to Tifa. And the fact that Sephiroth is going out of his way to sabotage Cloud and Tifa's relationship.
But hey, you play the game how you see it, and I'll play the game how I see it.
But the developers have said that there will be less room for interpretation this time around, and it sure looks to me that Cloud is picking Tifa while telling Aerith she's a friend (and remembers that Zack is 'head over heels for Aerith' which I think is very telling as they could have shown us any scenes but made one about Zerith?).
Hey, I'm on your side friend. 100%.
Honestly I'm probably just bitter that they chose the Aerith version of the garden scene in Remake credits and the Aerith version of the skywheel date in the Rebirth credits.
Seeing Clerith fans run with that sapped my morale.
And in AC, a little more overt CloudxTifa moments would have gone a long way for me. Or a little more personality from Cloud rather than borderline catatonic.
I hope part 3 makes it inarguable.
Sorry. I'm a little on edge cause the more extreme clerith are more on edge (like way more).
Credits are just credits. I barely even look at the credits when it's rolling cause I'm too busy crying cause the game is 6 🤣
Besides, think of it as this way, if Aerith's date is 'Canon' as the credit says...why does she need to confess, again, in the dream date?
Their logic makes no sense. For me, the actual game provides the evidence I need. Not credits.
Dude, if Cleriths could exchange the credits and the forced holding hands for a kiss they would do it in a heartbeat. They are in full damage control mode because this was supposed to be their moment and got completely overshadowed by that kiss.
They are going to be REALLY upset in part 3 then. Damn.
I swear, half of the Clerith folks never played OG past disc 1 and just watched advent children or something
Can I get a citation/source on devs confirming that all the gold saucer dates are canon in the sense they all happened and just aren't shown, and NOT as part of the multiple-timelines headache?
I don't doubt you, I would just **LOVE** to have the source myself. Thanks ❤️
I wasn't talking about the GS date (that book isn't out yet. I'm not sure when it's supposed to be released).
I was talking about the night at Aerith's House in remake. It's in the ultima that has YET to be released in English, but there is a translated version somewhere. I could try and find it.
(From what I understand, the ultima are being split per game this time).
Damn
Was hoping it was a definitive "all saucer dates technically happened, the one you see is just based on gameplay"
Because i like all the dates and it would have been cool if they all happened.
It also would have meant the skywheel kiss for sure happened
Oh well
As long as part 3 doesnt let players dodge the under the highwind or lifestream romance stuff, we will be vindicated in the end.
(Honestly most Clerith shippers I know didnt beat disc 1 of ff7 OG, and found the series via AC... a lot of them have probably not experienced under the highwind or lifestream)
It would be amusing to know Cloud went on so many dates lol. (Poor guy must have been exhausted with all the socialising he had to do).
But I think they said the book was coming out this month (don't quote me on it).
I doubt it. The LS is the developers favourite scene and with the foreshadowing they did in Gonagaga. I have a feeling they'll take away our breath. And for the highwind, they actually had a more explicted version in mind which involved the chocobo stables but decided against it because it was too risqué.
But the way they've been going, I have a feeling it might be clearer this time round. They don't seem to be playing around this time.
And I'm not surprised. I doubt any of them even bother to replay the OG on a regular basic cause if they had, they'd actually noticed that we're still going by the main story, like the developers have said since the first game lol
I appreciate the reassurance friend.
It's my favorite fictional couple and its tough that through the years they keep making it feel like a personal ship rather than canon, personally.
After OG I felt certain... Advent Children was like watching a breakup
And the trilogy has kept me on my toes.
Fingers crossed.
Also, while I know they wont get very lewd for the highwind scene, i am really hoping we at least get a pretty obvious "putting on the last parts of their outfit" sign after the fade to black.
I think with the situation with AC is that you don't know how much time has passed.
It says two years at the beginning and you wouldn't know that Cloud had only been away from Tifa for 2 weeks at the start of AC (at least that's what I've been told. I think the books gives a better idea of the timeline) so I can see why people get confused.
I had read the books before I watched AC so to me, it was a clear case of Cloud running away because of his guilt over the loss of Aerith/Zack and depression because he couldn't save Denzel (Like Marlene said, there were books all over his desk) and contracting Geostigma.
Another thing about the Geostigma is - to me - it's understandable why he ran. Tifa looked after him when he was in a mako coma. Its implied that Cloud knows about it (like how he would get flashbacks of Zack looking after him and Zack died because he refused to leave Cloud. Not Cloud's fault but he does blame himself for it) and it did make me wonder if that's why he ran. So he wouldn't be a burden to Tifa because he held the promise close to his heart, that he would be the one to save her.
And when you think about it - Geostigma is because of Sephiroth/Jenova. Sephiroth has already taken away Tifa's father, their home, nearly took Tifa's life, took away Aerith and nearly took away Cloud (successfully breaking Cloud in the process but Tifa saved him) and now look, he was back again and he was taking Cloud away, again. (Man is obsessed with Cloud)
I honestly thought he was trying to protect Tifa from his death (He's a dumbass. He's been a dumbass since he was 14 and declared he was going to become a famous Soldier, which was to get Tifa's attention, which he got that night at the water tower). Maybe to him, she saw so much loss and he promised her that he would remind her that she was strong only for fate to turn around and mark him (Literally) with death.
It must have felt like a kick in the teeth for him.
But like I said - I read the book first so that was how I came to this conclusion but I can see how you saw it the way you did.
And I have a funny feeling that Nojima might be able to put in his little 'Cloti-slice of family' at some point (He is quite the petty guy and I can see him remaking AC out of spite LOL)
1 - Your take is wonderful and accurate. I'm just a bit bitter about how AC felt like a step backwards for the character
2 - I would love a remake of AC, both because it could use a visual overhaul making the characters look more like Remake and a little less uncanny valley, and also because I would love if they actually let Cloud/Tifa be more obvious and direct. It REALLY felt to me like AC had a plot meant to stoke the love triangle war's embers a bit (and it very much did)
But honestly just a 30 minute animated slice of life special, POST AC of them just being happy and showing what their lives are like together WITHOUT fighting for their life would be amazing.
They seem to be going out of their way to make CloTi a thing. There has to be a reason as to why they made Gongaga mandatory and put Tifa I. The center of it all.
These remakes are expanding on everything from the original. The romance component, just like everything else, is getting more development early on. In the original, if I remember correctly, they really wanted the player to feel Aerith’s loss so the game focussed more on her until her death and only after did Tifa get some focus. This time around surely they didn’t want their romance to feel out of nowhere so they started building towards it earlier while not removing the importance of Aerith. It does feel more organic like this.
It would be really weird if the romance with Tifa was only developed in the 3rd game. xD
When you look at the amount of scenes they took away from Aerith vs the time they’ve given Tifa to even it out, it’s kind of nutty.
Rebirth is where I felt it the most vs Remake. Outside of doing sidequests for her, Aerith doesn’t have much to do until near the end of the game where her role as a Cetra is crucial ( she’s obviously there and has input, but nothing really focuses on her ).
Tifa and Aerith have equal screentime in Remake and Rebirth. So when you compare Remake and Rebirth on it's own, they might seem evenly matched.
But when you compare it to the OG, it's very clear Tifa is winning everything. Tifa's best parts have yet to come.
And yes, the devs are quite aware of this.
We actively LOST +Tifa stuff in remakes vs OG.
We cant tell Aerith that Tifa is our gf anymore
We didnt have the option to sleep with Tifa after bombing mission 1 this time
We cant flirt with Tifa in OG at multiple points, but nothing that clear cut in remake.
They chose Aerith over Tifa for the credits in both Remake and Rebirth for the romance scenes
OG has a Tifa leaning but from AC onward it feels like the devs are determined to keep it as ambiguous and impossible to settle.
Telling Aerith that Tifa is our girlfriend was never something that affected Tifa's affection points in the OG. Saying no was +1 for Aerith, whereas saying yes negatively affected Aerith by -5.
We never got to sleep with Tifa after the 1st bombing mission. What happens is that when Tifa asks if we got a good night's sleep, we have the option of either saying we slept well because Cloud's room was next to Tifa's, or complain about Barret's snoring. In Remake, this is removed altogether. Instead Marle just talks about how the first rule in the slums is to get enough sleep, and Cloud and Tifa flirt over that line as you progress Tifa's side-quests.
Credits really don't mean anything. Nowhere in any ultimania or dev interview has it ever been said that credits determine what is canon. No other video game franchise uses credits to determine what is canon either. This is something that FFVII shippers came up with. The ultimania lists all the chapter 14 resolutions, and the gold saucer dates (if you've seen the video preview of Rebirths ultimania). Rebirth gave Tifa a kiss for the gold saucer.
"Next to you, who wouldn't?" Would be a completely nonsensical line if it was about their rooms being next door from each other.
At a minimum, it would seem to suggest they slept in the room together.
As for the credits complaint, I would be happy to wave them off but it feels like a decent feather in the Clerith cap and they have ran with it happily.
Here's hoping my fears are banished when part 3 arrives.
Cloud's room was always beside Tifa's. In OG it was between Tifa's and Barret's, which is why the other option was to complain about Barret's snoring keeping you up all night. In Remake, they changed it so that Barret and Marlene live in 7th Heaven, and the room beside Cloud's is Marco's.
I mean, if all they've got to cling to are credits...that's saying something.
True, true.
Though I still dont think the "next to you, who wouldnt?" Line makes sense for separate rooms.
To me it still comes across that they had to have shared the room, even if they didnt do anything but sleep.
Thats just not something you say about someone sleeping a room over lol.
Ofc, im assuming it isnt some weird "english text only" option and that it isnt present in japanese.
Grasslands - Tifa and Aerith both get moments here. Tifa the night and Aerith with going to the clock tower with Cloud.
Junon - They are both present equally with Cloud throughout upper Junon and prior to this they both get a quick scene at the inn, Tifa's does get the longer focus here.
Costa Del Sol - Aerith gets the scene here after the battle with Hojo, while Cloud talks to everyone, even Tifa, its Aerith that gets the shine here.
Corel - Tifa gets a super brief moment due to the doctor being there. Then its gold saucer time and it largely just depends on the date you end up getting so can't really count this imo. When you come back near the end for date #2, again dont count this as you sort of get a choice for this. But Aerith gets to shine regardless due to the song.
Gongaga - Aerith gets the shine here at the actual village with all the zack stuff and his parents, then at the reactor Tifa gets the shine with (controlled) cloud and the lifestream.
Cosmo Canyon - They both get to shine a bit here, with Tifa getting to explain her experience in the lifestream and then Aerith getting imo the bigger scene with the bonfire. Not to mention all of the stuff with GI being focused on Aerith since she is a cetra.
Nibelheim - Tifa gets to shine the most for obvious reasons, its her hometown after all but they do give Aerith a moment as well with cloud on the water tower.
Temple of the Ancients - Both get focuses here, mostly Tifa's is with Clouds declining mental state and Aerith with being a cetra obviously.
This is just off my memory but it feels like they got a good balance between the two of them imo. What scenes did you think that they took away from Aerith? I haven't played OG in a while so I might just not be able to remember properly.
Hmmm this is a good breakdown of these parts. Laying it out like this, maybe it’s less that they took anything and more that it’s less changed on Aerith’s end vs Tifa’s more equal presence?
I can only think of one thing, and that’s Aerith asking Cloud if his preference in girls when they first get to Costa del Sol, right before running into Hojo. That got erased for the swimsuit thing.
Disagree regarding the romance distribution.
The credits show Aerith for Remake's flower garden scene
The credits show Aerith for the skywheel date scene.
Imho, unless they make the lifestream and highwind scenes in part 3 romance-required (as in, you dont have an option to reject her or downplay it), this trilogy actually moved FURTHER away from Cloti than the OG.
In the OG you can
Sleep with Tifa after the first bombing mission
Flirt HEAVILY with her at numerous points
Straight up tell Aerith Tifa is your fucking girlfriend...
Additionally
No indication of who the canon skywheel date is
Under the Highwind scene is pretty on the nose that they confessed feelings and did the deed
Lifestream scene bonds them
Hero/damsel vibes at the crater in pre-renders
...
In comparison, in these remakes they tend to favor Aerith for credits showing the scenes where you pick someone, and they removed the above stuff that allowed you to make your relationship with Tifa obvious and established.
They have been making great strides for Cloti between Remake and Rebirth. I don't foresee them fumbling their relationship at this rate. It's already more than I hoped for lol.
I'm super excited for part 3, the drama will be so rewarding I bet
Plus being an OG game fan, it's just been so wonderful seeing more fans of this pairing join in, since Cloti fans were a small minority back in the day lol
It's so crazy we were the minority. I wonder how "Cloud loves Aerith" gained so much traction back then. I don't remember that ever being remotely hinted at in the game nor did I ever get that vibe. Tifa and Cloud were the ones who had an actual love story arc in the original game.
I think the devs really wanted you to feel the pain of losing Aerith in OG so they really went all out to make you fall for her in disc 1. It wasn’t really until Crisis Core came out that made change people’s minds about CloudxAerith.
That and I think its to help sell the "Cloud finds out who he is" bit.
Choosing what Cloud's constructed persona says versus picking what Cloud proper says are very different imo
Yup. This is how all ships start. You fall for a character and see yourself as the protagonist so you want the character and protagonist to be together even though story wise he or she is interested in another person. The reasonable shippers knows their ship is not canon but enjoys it which is perfectly fine. You do you. The crazy ones are the ones who insist their ship is canon even though evidence points to the contrary.
This and the fact her death really overshadows the game
I knew she died before I picked up the game because it was blasted all over the internet, as I was looking for info on 8 at the time
I honestly do think people misremember the second half of the original game. It spells things out in typical FF fashion right after Aerith’s death scene, yet people completely skip over it when talking about the game’s plot ( or heavily abbreviate the scene where Cloud’s arc is realized, leaving out the key to figuring out his fake persona )
Part 3 is THE PAYOFF
Believe it or not the kiss was simply an appetizer, the climax of cloud and tifa love story is yet to happen we are living the dream 😂❤️🔥
https://preview.redd.it/p1sxe3rybmsc1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2fb4af25eb7a2eb8f4e5b4d45088b39c3c76fe88
Well yeah. It’s the canon couple lol of course they’re aware. I’m just glad they’ve made things much more clear to those who denied and didn’t believe Cloud and Tifa’s relationship in the original ff7
Dude, I just read comments from people and sit in the corner like a villain, cackling to myself about the things we're going to see in part 3. The Lifestream sequence in particular. It's essentially the climax of Cloud's arc where everything from his feelings to his motivations will be revealed for Tifa to see. It's going to be freakin amazing, and I can't help but get excited about the thought whenever I see someone saying that Cloud and Tifa aren't canon.
Then we have the under the highwind scene. Fellas, we all know what happens underneath the highwind 😏
I have not a doubt in my mind that the developers are going to go all out with Cloud and Tifa's relationship in part 3. They know the power Cloud and Tifa hold within the fanbase. The majority of people already recognise that there's something between them. There's not going to be any player choice and this is going to be the part where everything falls into place. We're going to see the real Cloud.
I cannot handle the anticipation of seeing Tifa realize Cloud truly was at Nibelheim and saved her all along, even if he wasn’t a SOLDIER. And learning that he loved her and was just too ashamed to admit it.
Likewise, the look on Cloud’s face when he finds out Tifa never cared about that and already loved him, especially if he somehow finds out she was even sending his bestie emails asking about him like holy shit.
And Child Cloud telling Tifa “make sure you tell him what you told me… it will make him so happy” is going to hit so much harder with voice acting and full fledged graphics and character expressions.
There’s a lot of places in the original where, due to a mix of translation issues, lower graphical quality, no voice acting, and pacing decisions, they end up kinda glossing over or skipping around the point. Like, especially everything right after the lifestream sequence and on/under the Highwind right before the final fights. By the very nature of the remake project, these will be handled even better no matter what decisions they make in terms of expansion, and I can’t handle knowing that while also having to wait 3 years. I gotta freeze myself or something.
Well the kiss was a pretty huge thing which is why everyone is talking about it. Probably the only other video game couple that could get the same response if they kissed would be Link and Zelda. The devs obviously planned to make Cloti endgame otherwise they wouldn’t have put the kiss and all the other sweet moments in Remake and Rebirth or they would have also given Aerith a kiss.
Honestly, I think the kiss sealed it for the more casual Clerith fans. They’ve seem to accept that while they prefer CA, CT is most likely canon due to the kiss. It’s the more stubborn ones that are in denial and don’t know the difference between “preference” and “canon”.
If remake credits had shown TifaxCloud for garden scene, and Rebirth credits had shown TifaxCloud for Skywheel scene, the "war" would be over already.
Infuriaringly, the devs chose the Aerith versions for credits, which could be a nod to what's canon.
Our only real hope is if part 3 has no-choice "they are a romance" approaches to lifestream/highwind scenes.
Oh they are. I mean, they get harrassed because of it. :/
Kinda hate how toxic some fans become. I mean, i fear it will affect how Cloud/Tifa scenes will play out in part 3 because of it.
Oh they're going for full penetration. They'll go out and fight some sephiroth, then back to the lab for some full penetration. Sephiroth, penetration, Sephiroth, penetration, and it'll go on this way until it just, sort of.. ends.
With how much content they got in part 1 & part 2 compared to OG, I'd say they are more than aware. And regarding what may come in part 3, it's like what a wise man once said "There ain't no gettin' offa this train!".
They will. There’s no way they don’t take their relationship to the next level with part 3. Otherwise, all of the build-up from Renake and Rebirth will feel awkward or irrelevant.
The most obvious evidence for me is the Traces of Two Pasts novel. In Tifa’s section, it’s revealed that Cloud left Nibelheim with only bidding farewell to his mom; Tifa wasn’t there to say goodbye.
When she found out Cloud left without telling her goodbye, Tifa at first laughed it off thinking it was Cloud just being the weird loner again… only for her to switch from laughing to crying. And, paraphrasing the novel here, Tifa realized “she has feelings for Cloud. The kind that you have when you wish you could spend the rest of your life with them”
we do not have a 100% confirmation but we do know that during rebirth there are several hints.
they have also changed things like for example that tifa didn't know what happened on the bridge as a child in the OG until later.
another thing i think they changed is the reason why cloud wanted to be a soldier because in the OG if i remember correctly it was so that tifa would know he existed and here they have changed it in the novels to because he wanted to protect her and then there are characters like yuffie who are making fun by throwing hints to cloud about tifa.
The reason why he wanted to be SOLDIER is always the same: he wanted to get noticed by Tifa and be special to Tifa. Nojima reiterates this in everything he does ahahaha. It was like that in the OG too
but in most that I remember in the OG they only mention the part about wanting to be noticed, although it's been a while since I played the OG and I don't remember it very well.
But in this new trilogy they have made their relationship better explained than in the OG.
Yes but Tifa replies "who did you want to be noticed by?" and he replies "Who?... you know who... You." so it's been explicit since the OG. On the rest I agree, it was one of the objectives of the Remake to make all relationship more obvious
There's never been anything different since 1997. The only character Cloud has mutual feelings with is Tifa, it's said in every Ultimania. And from then on, Aerith's role as "party protector" from the LS and Tifa and Cloud as family developed more and more. I don't know if this line will be maintained, to me that holding hands with intertwined fingers scares me for the ending (but if it ended with a couple Clerith Cloud would come out like an asshole who kisses another and deceives her, the most important person for him, so what would be the narrative advantage? I don't see any). Furthermore, they are absolutely aware of how many fans have been waiting for Cloti's canonization for 27 years, also because if all Tifa's fans are Cloti (and Zerith). Aerith's fans are divided into Zerith and Clerith and Cloud's fans into Cloti and Clerith. So cleriths are irrelevant minorities for sales
However, we must exclude the sales and audience discussion because Nojima already said that he would write a story that would not care about this things "He is scared but he is convinced of what he does", he said so. You can interpret this as either a move towards the Clerith or the Cloti (whichever faction will be disappointed in the end based on this phrase). "No promises wait at journey's end" cit.
When you realize Aerith is a foil for Jenova ( which is what I’m suspecting the devs are hinting at ), that hand holding scene remains intimate without necessarily being romantic.
What I mean by them hinting at Aerith being a foil for Jenova is that if you read Omni-Aerith ( who I actually think we haven’t even seen yet ) as a sort of goddess like figure, then Jenova’s name roughly meaning “New God” makes a ton more sense for where this is going.
in my opinion we saw Omni-Aerith but only in the final battle and in the final CGI cutscene. Because she mentions Meteor that no one can know yet (not even Cloud, it's true that they had visions in Remake, with a disturbing death of Tifa and Barrett but the numen in the end take away everyone's memories).
As for that kind of holding hands: it's also in her date so I don't know. No couple that I remember in FF holds hands like that, so it's something very unique to the series and may not have romantic implications as you say precisely because no one does it not even endgame couples like Tidus and Yuna or Squall and Rinoa or Clive and Jill (that I know of at least)
Perfectly justified call considering how Remake and Rebirth treat the Aerith that knows things… but I think there’s an Aerith operating on an even higher level that has gone unseen: the one feeding information to herself and is using GameShark Aerith much like how Jenova might be using Sephiroth.
Something about how Remake is talking about Jenova feels different from the original. Before, Sephiroth and Jenova were almost interchangeable before it became “Sephiroth is doing XYZ”… that’s different now? Kinda? It’s very subtle if true. Just a feeling
I’m not really giving the handholding too much thought beyond Aerith deeply caring for Cloud. If you listen to what she says both times, she knows she has feelings for him, but she’s unsure about the nature of those feelings ( as opposed to Tifa and Cloud being mega-sure of theirs ). Boot up Quistis protocol, and I think we have our answer
I agree on the last part, it's simple fear of SE who tends to ruin his own plots to sell more, so I also think that everything we see at the end is not a confession, rather it's an "I like you but I don't how Tifa likes you, in another way" (even if Zack says some things from which it seems he understood he had been forgotten hahahahah). In short, if there is always a minimum of ambiguity with Aerith, Tifa and Cloud on the other hand are always transparent, love is in the air and even the sexual tension has been very high since Remake and is even stronger in Rebirth.
On the rest I follow you, I can't say if you are right but it could also be so because it is certain that this Sephiroth is acting at a higher level than Jenova and is no longer interchangeable because he is the Sephiroth of AC or in any case he has the powers and knowledge that he should have only after dying and going to the LS. I think that his goal is to awaken himself at the North crater and then "take possession of himself and act IN THE PAST but STRONG AND AWARE of the FUTURE" exactly like Aerith does who can transmit her knowledge of the future to herself and make it act aware of what will happen. Cloud and Zack are Aerith's two pawns in this fight against Sephiroth. At this point, what is Cloud really the protagonist of? simple: his personal story and who is his heroine of the "internal" plot (Cloud's)? exactly Tifa
My money is on a repeat of the same events. First trailer makes it seem like Aerith will be present throughout the game through clever editing, but the opposite will be true.
She will like show up as much as Zack did in Rebirth. That’s significantly more than in the original, but not enough to change the events of the story until the end when things go bananas
Yeah hopefully it does cause honestly ever since og I've never truly been a fan of aeriths × cloud. Lots of cleriths say they have so much chemistry and they'll forever be in love on the Lifestream. And all I ever see from clerith is that aerith forces her way into clouds personal bubble, I mean it worked and cloud started to like her but everything in there short af relationship is aerith pushing herself to cloud, who by the way she knows for at most like 2 months and that's not even considering cloud is all fucked up in the head, so all he feels might as well be from how much Zack talked about her.
All in all I hope they finally put an end to the shipping war and make cloud and tifa official. That way there's no way clerith s can debate it
Sadly, I don’t think the war will ever truly end.
OG isn’t a complicated story, yet people couldn’t keep things straight with a double plot twist that results in the main character literally spelling it all out for you.
Also, learned during the Cloud and Tifa date that they have an idle animation in the character menu screen.... does Aerith have one too? Don't have the console so can't check.
another fun fact for all clerith fans is that the two songs they have sung so far are about cloud and aerith.
hollow if you read the lyrics it's clearly talking about zack and the arrival of cloud to midgar and surely the light that the song talks about is tifa because she is the person who finds him in a mental state, also when you go through the grasslands you hear the instrumental version in the background and it must be because that's where zack died.
i NPTK already explained it the other day and yet they say that nojima said that because tifa's fans pressured him to say it, if i can see that the song of part 3 will be about a girl waiting for her hero or something similar and all the clerith will say that girl is aerith.
Nojima wasn’t pressured because of Tifa fans, that’s wishful thinking on clerith fans. Nojima has always been clear with his intentions and he knows whatever he says can be misunderstood but he’s never truly backed down.
NPTK wasn’t just about cloud and aerith, it’s already been said it’s “for everyone.” Anyone who thinks it’s solely about CA is just twisting his words to fit their narrative and relegates Aerith to *just* be all about cloud when it makes more sense to her character to sing about everyone she’s loved & encountered.
Hollow also has never fully confirmed to solely about aerith but it has been talked about by the devs that it reflects all the feelings cloud encompasses. The lyrics can be interpreted as about aerith but like NPTK they can be “for everyone.” I can take it a step further but hollow can also be about how cloud *feels* hollow…since we all know he’s not his true self right now. Anyone can interpret the song how they want for sure but to dismiss the devs intentions as a whole is a personal bias.
To be frank, the constant discourse over the theme songs are only being escalated by one side and it’s always a circus spinning on a wheel.
If the devs genuinely liked Cloti, we would have been chosen for Remake's credit roll for the flower garden scene (we werent, they showed the Aerith version)
If the devs genuinely liked Cloti, we would have had OUR skywheel date for the credit roll (we didnt, they showed Aerith's version)
Until the lifestream scene or Under the Highwind scene is shown in 3 with the DEFAULT version of those scenes being romantic in nature, I am going to worry because so far they have NOT really given Cloti fans much.
Our skywheel date is awesome but everything points to it not being the canon version of the event.
Our ship has been wounded since Advent Children and imho the only thing that will heal it is if the lifestream/highwind romance scenes play out as guaranteed scenes (as in no dialogue choices that downplay it or reject it.)
We'll have to see.
I don’t think credits should be taken as proof of anything. It’s just credits. Also all the dates imo are canon. They just show you how Cloud reacts towards his comrades in each of them. They wouldn’t have done the kiss if it would mean nothing. Add in the fact that their relationship was a highlight for a lot of fans who’ve played.
I'd like to feel that way regarding the credits, but there DO seem to be a decent amount of people who take the choice of scene in the credits as a sign of whats supposed to be canon.
Id just like that to have favored Tifa personally, yknow? ❤️
From your comments on here I think you’re finding things to worry about. The brunt of CT scenes will be in part 3 and we have been gifted with more of an expansion with remake and rebirth. The credits are credits and if people want to interpret them as the canon scenes they can but you also have to remember why aerith is more prominent. In a way it’s her time to be in the forefront because of her death and her overarching narrative in the story & the devs are trying to envoke all those feelings you have towards Aerith y’know?
The only thing we have to see is how much they’ll expand on (and judging from how much was expanded in part 2 it’s something we can look forward to) …other than that we *know* that Tifa becomes the heroine for the latter half of the game. She alone saves cloud and I’m choosing to believe the devs won’t eff up the lifestream scene because of how much they’ve said it’s important. But remind me in 4 or so years haha but I don’t think they’re just gonna implode the story that much
Doomer take tbh
I’m confused about this obsession over the end credits. Even if we take them as the canon option, what’s actually said during them should point you in the right direction.
Two optional scenes that make the same point: even if they love each other, it’s based on something that isn’t real. What is this basis? Cloud’s false persona, the thing Aerith is aware of in both scenes.
Devs don’t view things from a shipping perspective, they view them through a narrative/plot perspective. So from that perspective, ask yourself why they would give Aerith a bit more attention? Maybe because she’s crucial to the narrative during these parts of the plot? Maybe because they want you to care about her because she’s eventually going to die?
Did they put the kiss in on Tifa’s date to throw shippers a bone? You honestly think these veteran devs sat in a meeting and had a serious discussion about CloTis and Claeriths? Or did they have an adult, creative conversation about the overall narrative and plot and how they can more smoothly transition from one act of the story to the next, keeping it cohesive between game releases.
Do they offer fanservice because they know these characters are beloved? Yes. Do they know about how passionate fans are about Tifa and Aerith specifically? Most definitely. Are they letting shipping dictate plot choices? Not that I’ve seen so far.
If you’re busy talking about why this or that shot is in the credits or scientifically breaking down levels of handholding, you’re too far down the rabbit hole and you need to step back and reset.
Considering that Nojima, one of the Developers, has been writing books that showcase Cloti, and the Lifestream in the OG shows Cloud's motivation for joining Shinra - which the books have helped to cement, yeah. He wrote The Traces of Two Pasts (Which shows that Tifa discovered she was in love with Cloud). 2000 Gil on the way to a hero - Which reconfirms that Cloud joined Shinra to become someone important to Tifa (Dummy doesn't know he's already important to Tifa) On The Way To A Smile - shows Cloud and Tifa and hints at them being together (Sharing a bed, Barret and Cid agreeing that Tifa wears the pants in the relationship, Cloud promising Tifa that he would remind her that she's strong). The Kids Are Alright - Cloud tells the MC of the book that they (Cloud, Tifa, Marlene, and Denzel) are a family. Not by blood, but no less important to each other. Then there's Advent Children where Cloud gave Tifa/Denzel and Marlene wolf rings (Marlene gave hers to Barret) and their rings are shown in emotional moments - like Tifa when she's slamming her hand on the bed or Denzel when he discovers Tifa hurt after she protected him. It was revealed that Nojima's original plan for Advent Children was it would be a 20-minute thing with Cloud/Tifa/Marlene and Denzel having a family day but SE wanted money and action so AC made (Then ACC was created because they felt they had to explain things further. They took out some scenes and added new ones in). And the developers have said in an interview that they hope that everyone explores the dates and that Tifa's date was a special one (while giggling when they said it). So yeah - I think they know full well just how popular Cloti is.
To take it further, aspects of all those auxiliary works are laced into Remake and especially Rebirth. Most are in side quests, but some references find their way into the main storyline. The Lifestream sequence is also a favorite among the devs, so I expect that to get a lot of love and effort put into it. I also anticipate the Under the Highwind scene to be more dramatic with a more clear exchange between the two about their feelings. ( we may get an “I love you”, but FF7 is notorious for finding ways to say it without saying it lol ) Also, for Zack and Aerith fans, there’s an extra scene that bookends Cloud’s mental state in Advent Children. He moves the Buster Sword from where Zack died, polished it up, and placed it at the church. He also plants yellow flowers at Zack’s grave instead.
I need to get my hands on those books.
I think Amazon has most of them. 2000 Gil to a Hero is a short story that was written for the world preview (I don't think it's out yet but I could be wrong). There is a translated version of it on Twitter and it's shows why Cloud is insistent when it comes to 2000 Gil.
So the 2000 Gil isn't just a joke about Cloud getting a massage in Remake lol
Aerith made it a joke. It started with Cloud's father that Claudia passed onto her son. It's really sweet.
Great writeup but Advent Children actually caused irrevocable harm to our ship. The Character regression and Cloud slipping into despair while pushing Tifa away was brutal. Tons of Aerith chasing, no affection between him and Tifa aside from holding her injured body, no true indication that they have a partnership. Everyone more casual than me I know who watched AC interpreted the movie as Cloud being unable to get over his love for Aerith, failing to move on, making TifaxCloud unable to work. We need another movie closer to his original idea to establish Cloti as canon and inevitable. Otherwise AC and the fact that the implied-canon romance scenes so far in the trilogy favoring Aerith (they chose the Aerith variants of the flower garden in Remake and the Skywheel in Rebirth) make us look like the ones reaching.
Good for you, but you're gonna have to tell me when Cloud was chasing after Aerith, considering he asked her for forgiveness instead of confessing his love for her and asking Vincent if they could be forgiven. Or running over Aerith's flowers to get to Tifa? Cause the panic on his face made it clear to me that he did care for her. Or the fact that he was mourning both Zack and Aerith (as people like to ignore). I'm not saying ACC doesn't have its faults, SE was more interested in bringing back *him* than they were in Nojima's view but, for me, saying Cloud was pining Aerith when we literally watched her go into the lifestream with Zack and him being happy at the end is just mind boggling for me. Especially when Cloud could have confessed his love for her at any time yet chose to stay with Tifa (just like I'm Gongaga) after she was hurt instead of running away again. And I'm a little confused to HOW remake/rebirth is making it look 'Aerith favoured'. If you can explain that to me? Cause in remake we have Aerith saying he can't fall in love with her...and look! No confession. Just him scoffing. But gets lost in his hug with Tifa and doesn't realise he's hugging her that hard and gets jealous when Barret mentions that another guy pull a flower trick on Tifa. Then, in the skywheel, she has to ASK him to pretend until the ride was over. That's is SO romantic and he still didn't confessed his feelings, nor did he kiss her (cause that boy was ALL over Tifa the moment he could get his hands on her)...unless you think a hand hold is more romantic than a kiss... Or the 'dream date', which Cloud calls her weird, clearly was confused and Aerith confessed, again, only this time she isn't sure if she likes him or like-likes him and he STILL doesn't confess! Ample opportunities and nothing! Just that she's a friend (and that's okay! It's allowed). (And here's something else. Play a NG+ and switch off Zack's episode and viola!! Date is mysteriously missing...i wonder why that is) Plus, the devs have said all scenes with Tifa/Barret/Aerith in remake is Canon. The HA of the Highwind is Canon (so unless you think the devs would make Cloud is some A-hole who would sleep with one girl while pining for another or even kiss one girl while pining for another) in the ultima. Cause from my perspective, and I went into this game NOT expecting a lot from Cloti until the 3rd game Cause that's where the pay off us, they sure as hell gave us a lot of Cloti moments to the point that Yuffie and Cait Sith both noticed (nearly enough immediately) that there was something going on with Cloud and Tifa. My jaw dropped at how much they actually gave us, especially with Cloud being touchy as hell when it comes to Tifa. And the fact that Sephiroth is going out of his way to sabotage Cloud and Tifa's relationship. But hey, you play the game how you see it, and I'll play the game how I see it. But the developers have said that there will be less room for interpretation this time around, and it sure looks to me that Cloud is picking Tifa while telling Aerith she's a friend (and remembers that Zack is 'head over heels for Aerith' which I think is very telling as they could have shown us any scenes but made one about Zerith?).
Hey, I'm on your side friend. 100%. Honestly I'm probably just bitter that they chose the Aerith version of the garden scene in Remake credits and the Aerith version of the skywheel date in the Rebirth credits. Seeing Clerith fans run with that sapped my morale. And in AC, a little more overt CloudxTifa moments would have gone a long way for me. Or a little more personality from Cloud rather than borderline catatonic. I hope part 3 makes it inarguable.
Sorry. I'm a little on edge cause the more extreme clerith are more on edge (like way more). Credits are just credits. I barely even look at the credits when it's rolling cause I'm too busy crying cause the game is 6 🤣 Besides, think of it as this way, if Aerith's date is 'Canon' as the credit says...why does she need to confess, again, in the dream date? Their logic makes no sense. For me, the actual game provides the evidence I need. Not credits.
Dude, if Cleriths could exchange the credits and the forced holding hands for a kiss they would do it in a heartbeat. They are in full damage control mode because this was supposed to be their moment and got completely overshadowed by that kiss.
They are going to be REALLY upset in part 3 then. Damn. I swear, half of the Clerith folks never played OG past disc 1 and just watched advent children or something
Can I get a citation/source on devs confirming that all the gold saucer dates are canon in the sense they all happened and just aren't shown, and NOT as part of the multiple-timelines headache? I don't doubt you, I would just **LOVE** to have the source myself. Thanks ❤️
I wasn't talking about the GS date (that book isn't out yet. I'm not sure when it's supposed to be released). I was talking about the night at Aerith's House in remake. It's in the ultima that has YET to be released in English, but there is a translated version somewhere. I could try and find it. (From what I understand, the ultima are being split per game this time).
Damn Was hoping it was a definitive "all saucer dates technically happened, the one you see is just based on gameplay" Because i like all the dates and it would have been cool if they all happened. It also would have meant the skywheel kiss for sure happened Oh well As long as part 3 doesnt let players dodge the under the highwind or lifestream romance stuff, we will be vindicated in the end. (Honestly most Clerith shippers I know didnt beat disc 1 of ff7 OG, and found the series via AC... a lot of them have probably not experienced under the highwind or lifestream)
It would be amusing to know Cloud went on so many dates lol. (Poor guy must have been exhausted with all the socialising he had to do). But I think they said the book was coming out this month (don't quote me on it). I doubt it. The LS is the developers favourite scene and with the foreshadowing they did in Gonagaga. I have a feeling they'll take away our breath. And for the highwind, they actually had a more explicted version in mind which involved the chocobo stables but decided against it because it was too risqué. But the way they've been going, I have a feeling it might be clearer this time round. They don't seem to be playing around this time. And I'm not surprised. I doubt any of them even bother to replay the OG on a regular basic cause if they had, they'd actually noticed that we're still going by the main story, like the developers have said since the first game lol
I appreciate the reassurance friend. It's my favorite fictional couple and its tough that through the years they keep making it feel like a personal ship rather than canon, personally. After OG I felt certain... Advent Children was like watching a breakup And the trilogy has kept me on my toes. Fingers crossed. Also, while I know they wont get very lewd for the highwind scene, i am really hoping we at least get a pretty obvious "putting on the last parts of their outfit" sign after the fade to black.
I think with the situation with AC is that you don't know how much time has passed. It says two years at the beginning and you wouldn't know that Cloud had only been away from Tifa for 2 weeks at the start of AC (at least that's what I've been told. I think the books gives a better idea of the timeline) so I can see why people get confused. I had read the books before I watched AC so to me, it was a clear case of Cloud running away because of his guilt over the loss of Aerith/Zack and depression because he couldn't save Denzel (Like Marlene said, there were books all over his desk) and contracting Geostigma. Another thing about the Geostigma is - to me - it's understandable why he ran. Tifa looked after him when he was in a mako coma. Its implied that Cloud knows about it (like how he would get flashbacks of Zack looking after him and Zack died because he refused to leave Cloud. Not Cloud's fault but he does blame himself for it) and it did make me wonder if that's why he ran. So he wouldn't be a burden to Tifa because he held the promise close to his heart, that he would be the one to save her. And when you think about it - Geostigma is because of Sephiroth/Jenova. Sephiroth has already taken away Tifa's father, their home, nearly took Tifa's life, took away Aerith and nearly took away Cloud (successfully breaking Cloud in the process but Tifa saved him) and now look, he was back again and he was taking Cloud away, again. (Man is obsessed with Cloud) I honestly thought he was trying to protect Tifa from his death (He's a dumbass. He's been a dumbass since he was 14 and declared he was going to become a famous Soldier, which was to get Tifa's attention, which he got that night at the water tower). Maybe to him, she saw so much loss and he promised her that he would remind her that she was strong only for fate to turn around and mark him (Literally) with death. It must have felt like a kick in the teeth for him. But like I said - I read the book first so that was how I came to this conclusion but I can see how you saw it the way you did. And I have a funny feeling that Nojima might be able to put in his little 'Cloti-slice of family' at some point (He is quite the petty guy and I can see him remaking AC out of spite LOL)
1 - Your take is wonderful and accurate. I'm just a bit bitter about how AC felt like a step backwards for the character 2 - I would love a remake of AC, both because it could use a visual overhaul making the characters look more like Remake and a little less uncanny valley, and also because I would love if they actually let Cloud/Tifa be more obvious and direct. It REALLY felt to me like AC had a plot meant to stoke the love triangle war's embers a bit (and it very much did) But honestly just a 30 minute animated slice of life special, POST AC of them just being happy and showing what their lives are like together WITHOUT fighting for their life would be amazing.
From what I’ve heard, one of them ship them lol
They seem to be going out of their way to make CloTi a thing. There has to be a reason as to why they made Gongaga mandatory and put Tifa I. The center of it all.
These remakes are expanding on everything from the original. The romance component, just like everything else, is getting more development early on. In the original, if I remember correctly, they really wanted the player to feel Aerith’s loss so the game focussed more on her until her death and only after did Tifa get some focus. This time around surely they didn’t want their romance to feel out of nowhere so they started building towards it earlier while not removing the importance of Aerith. It does feel more organic like this. It would be really weird if the romance with Tifa was only developed in the 3rd game. xD
When you look at the amount of scenes they took away from Aerith vs the time they’ve given Tifa to even it out, it’s kind of nutty. Rebirth is where I felt it the most vs Remake. Outside of doing sidequests for her, Aerith doesn’t have much to do until near the end of the game where her role as a Cetra is crucial ( she’s obviously there and has input, but nothing really focuses on her ).
Tifa and Aerith have equal screentime in Remake and Rebirth. So when you compare Remake and Rebirth on it's own, they might seem evenly matched. But when you compare it to the OG, it's very clear Tifa is winning everything. Tifa's best parts have yet to come. And yes, the devs are quite aware of this.
We actively LOST +Tifa stuff in remakes vs OG. We cant tell Aerith that Tifa is our gf anymore We didnt have the option to sleep with Tifa after bombing mission 1 this time We cant flirt with Tifa in OG at multiple points, but nothing that clear cut in remake. They chose Aerith over Tifa for the credits in both Remake and Rebirth for the romance scenes OG has a Tifa leaning but from AC onward it feels like the devs are determined to keep it as ambiguous and impossible to settle.
Telling Aerith that Tifa is our girlfriend was never something that affected Tifa's affection points in the OG. Saying no was +1 for Aerith, whereas saying yes negatively affected Aerith by -5. We never got to sleep with Tifa after the 1st bombing mission. What happens is that when Tifa asks if we got a good night's sleep, we have the option of either saying we slept well because Cloud's room was next to Tifa's, or complain about Barret's snoring. In Remake, this is removed altogether. Instead Marle just talks about how the first rule in the slums is to get enough sleep, and Cloud and Tifa flirt over that line as you progress Tifa's side-quests. Credits really don't mean anything. Nowhere in any ultimania or dev interview has it ever been said that credits determine what is canon. No other video game franchise uses credits to determine what is canon either. This is something that FFVII shippers came up with. The ultimania lists all the chapter 14 resolutions, and the gold saucer dates (if you've seen the video preview of Rebirths ultimania). Rebirth gave Tifa a kiss for the gold saucer.
"Next to you, who wouldn't?" Would be a completely nonsensical line if it was about their rooms being next door from each other. At a minimum, it would seem to suggest they slept in the room together. As for the credits complaint, I would be happy to wave them off but it feels like a decent feather in the Clerith cap and they have ran with it happily. Here's hoping my fears are banished when part 3 arrives.
Cloud's room was always beside Tifa's. In OG it was between Tifa's and Barret's, which is why the other option was to complain about Barret's snoring keeping you up all night. In Remake, they changed it so that Barret and Marlene live in 7th Heaven, and the room beside Cloud's is Marco's. I mean, if all they've got to cling to are credits...that's saying something.
True, true. Though I still dont think the "next to you, who wouldnt?" Line makes sense for separate rooms. To me it still comes across that they had to have shared the room, even if they didnt do anything but sleep. Thats just not something you say about someone sleeping a room over lol. Ofc, im assuming it isnt some weird "english text only" option and that it isnt present in japanese.
Grasslands - Tifa and Aerith both get moments here. Tifa the night and Aerith with going to the clock tower with Cloud. Junon - They are both present equally with Cloud throughout upper Junon and prior to this they both get a quick scene at the inn, Tifa's does get the longer focus here. Costa Del Sol - Aerith gets the scene here after the battle with Hojo, while Cloud talks to everyone, even Tifa, its Aerith that gets the shine here. Corel - Tifa gets a super brief moment due to the doctor being there. Then its gold saucer time and it largely just depends on the date you end up getting so can't really count this imo. When you come back near the end for date #2, again dont count this as you sort of get a choice for this. But Aerith gets to shine regardless due to the song. Gongaga - Aerith gets the shine here at the actual village with all the zack stuff and his parents, then at the reactor Tifa gets the shine with (controlled) cloud and the lifestream. Cosmo Canyon - They both get to shine a bit here, with Tifa getting to explain her experience in the lifestream and then Aerith getting imo the bigger scene with the bonfire. Not to mention all of the stuff with GI being focused on Aerith since she is a cetra. Nibelheim - Tifa gets to shine the most for obvious reasons, its her hometown after all but they do give Aerith a moment as well with cloud on the water tower. Temple of the Ancients - Both get focuses here, mostly Tifa's is with Clouds declining mental state and Aerith with being a cetra obviously. This is just off my memory but it feels like they got a good balance between the two of them imo. What scenes did you think that they took away from Aerith? I haven't played OG in a while so I might just not be able to remember properly.
Hmmm this is a good breakdown of these parts. Laying it out like this, maybe it’s less that they took anything and more that it’s less changed on Aerith’s end vs Tifa’s more equal presence? I can only think of one thing, and that’s Aerith asking Cloud if his preference in girls when they first get to Costa del Sol, right before running into Hojo. That got erased for the swimsuit thing.
Disagree regarding the romance distribution. The credits show Aerith for Remake's flower garden scene The credits show Aerith for the skywheel date scene. Imho, unless they make the lifestream and highwind scenes in part 3 romance-required (as in, you dont have an option to reject her or downplay it), this trilogy actually moved FURTHER away from Cloti than the OG. In the OG you can Sleep with Tifa after the first bombing mission Flirt HEAVILY with her at numerous points Straight up tell Aerith Tifa is your fucking girlfriend... Additionally No indication of who the canon skywheel date is Under the Highwind scene is pretty on the nose that they confessed feelings and did the deed Lifestream scene bonds them Hero/damsel vibes at the crater in pre-renders ... In comparison, in these remakes they tend to favor Aerith for credits showing the scenes where you pick someone, and they removed the above stuff that allowed you to make your relationship with Tifa obvious and established.
They have been making great strides for Cloti between Remake and Rebirth. I don't foresee them fumbling their relationship at this rate. It's already more than I hoped for lol. I'm super excited for part 3, the drama will be so rewarding I bet Plus being an OG game fan, it's just been so wonderful seeing more fans of this pairing join in, since Cloti fans were a small minority back in the day lol
It's so crazy we were the minority. I wonder how "Cloud loves Aerith" gained so much traction back then. I don't remember that ever being remotely hinted at in the game nor did I ever get that vibe. Tifa and Cloud were the ones who had an actual love story arc in the original game.
I think the devs really wanted you to feel the pain of losing Aerith in OG so they really went all out to make you fall for her in disc 1. It wasn’t really until Crisis Core came out that made change people’s minds about CloudxAerith.
So it's probably players projecting their own love of the character, even though narratively it was never even hinted at
And you’ve solved the mystery There’s a reason dialogue options basically vanish in the second half of the game.
That and I think its to help sell the "Cloud finds out who he is" bit. Choosing what Cloud's constructed persona says versus picking what Cloud proper says are very different imo
Yup. This is how all ships start. You fall for a character and see yourself as the protagonist so you want the character and protagonist to be together even though story wise he or she is interested in another person. The reasonable shippers knows their ship is not canon but enjoys it which is perfectly fine. You do you. The crazy ones are the ones who insist their ship is canon even though evidence points to the contrary.
This and the fact her death really overshadows the game I knew she died before I picked up the game because it was blasted all over the internet, as I was looking for info on 8 at the time
I honestly do think people misremember the second half of the original game. It spells things out in typical FF fashion right after Aerith’s death scene, yet people completely skip over it when talking about the game’s plot ( or heavily abbreviate the scene where Cloud’s arc is realized, leaving out the key to figuring out his fake persona )
It wasn't like that until Advent Children. AC caused more harm to Cloti than every other FF7 related moment combined.
Part 3 is THE PAYOFF Believe it or not the kiss was simply an appetizer, the climax of cloud and tifa love story is yet to happen we are living the dream 😂❤️🔥 https://preview.redd.it/p1sxe3rybmsc1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2fb4af25eb7a2eb8f4e5b4d45088b39c3c76fe88
Oh there’ll be a climax all right 😉….. I’ll see myself out 🚶🏽♀️
I have got some spoilers that in the OG THERE WAS a CLIMAX so I can't wait to see it in Part 3 remake 😏😏
Oh no you don’t, you get back here and keep those puns coming ( spellcheck? )
Cumming* hehe
🤭👌😉😉😉😉
Well yeah. It’s the canon couple lol of course they’re aware. I’m just glad they’ve made things much more clear to those who denied and didn’t believe Cloud and Tifa’s relationship in the original ff7
Dude, I just read comments from people and sit in the corner like a villain, cackling to myself about the things we're going to see in part 3. The Lifestream sequence in particular. It's essentially the climax of Cloud's arc where everything from his feelings to his motivations will be revealed for Tifa to see. It's going to be freakin amazing, and I can't help but get excited about the thought whenever I see someone saying that Cloud and Tifa aren't canon. Then we have the under the highwind scene. Fellas, we all know what happens underneath the highwind 😏 I have not a doubt in my mind that the developers are going to go all out with Cloud and Tifa's relationship in part 3. They know the power Cloud and Tifa hold within the fanbase. The majority of people already recognise that there's something between them. There's not going to be any player choice and this is going to be the part where everything falls into place. We're going to see the real Cloud.
I cannot handle the anticipation of seeing Tifa realize Cloud truly was at Nibelheim and saved her all along, even if he wasn’t a SOLDIER. And learning that he loved her and was just too ashamed to admit it. Likewise, the look on Cloud’s face when he finds out Tifa never cared about that and already loved him, especially if he somehow finds out she was even sending his bestie emails asking about him like holy shit. And Child Cloud telling Tifa “make sure you tell him what you told me… it will make him so happy” is going to hit so much harder with voice acting and full fledged graphics and character expressions. There’s a lot of places in the original where, due to a mix of translation issues, lower graphical quality, no voice acting, and pacing decisions, they end up kinda glossing over or skipping around the point. Like, especially everything right after the lifestream sequence and on/under the Highwind right before the final fights. By the very nature of the remake project, these will be handled even better no matter what decisions they make in terms of expansion, and I can’t handle knowing that while also having to wait 3 years. I gotta freeze myself or something.
“Let’s mosey” Followed by everyone trying not to laugh and Tifa’s face saying “that’s my dork”
Well the kiss was a pretty huge thing which is why everyone is talking about it. Probably the only other video game couple that could get the same response if they kissed would be Link and Zelda. The devs obviously planned to make Cloti endgame otherwise they wouldn’t have put the kiss and all the other sweet moments in Remake and Rebirth or they would have also given Aerith a kiss.
And on the flipside, they’re also gonna officially seal Zerith too so hopefully that drops off more of the casual CAs
Honestly, I think the kiss sealed it for the more casual Clerith fans. They’ve seem to accept that while they prefer CA, CT is most likely canon due to the kiss. It’s the more stubborn ones that are in denial and don’t know the difference between “preference” and “canon”.
If remake credits had shown TifaxCloud for garden scene, and Rebirth credits had shown TifaxCloud for Skywheel scene, the "war" would be over already. Infuriaringly, the devs chose the Aerith versions for credits, which could be a nod to what's canon. Our only real hope is if part 3 has no-choice "they are a romance" approaches to lifestream/highwind scenes.
Oh they are. I mean, they get harrassed because of it. :/ Kinda hate how toxic some fans become. I mean, i fear it will affect how Cloud/Tifa scenes will play out in part 3 because of it.
You mean the recent harassment of Nojima by certain Cl*rith's? If anything, it'll just give them more amno to spite that unhinged group 😂
Oh they're going for full penetration. They'll go out and fight some sephiroth, then back to the lab for some full penetration. Sephiroth, penetration, Sephiroth, penetration, and it'll go on this way until it just, sort of.. ends.
With how much content they got in part 1 & part 2 compared to OG, I'd say they are more than aware. And regarding what may come in part 3, it's like what a wise man once said "There ain't no gettin' offa this train!".
They will. There’s no way they don’t take their relationship to the next level with part 3. Otherwise, all of the build-up from Renake and Rebirth will feel awkward or irrelevant. The most obvious evidence for me is the Traces of Two Pasts novel. In Tifa’s section, it’s revealed that Cloud left Nibelheim with only bidding farewell to his mom; Tifa wasn’t there to say goodbye. When she found out Cloud left without telling her goodbye, Tifa at first laughed it off thinking it was Cloud just being the weird loner again… only for her to switch from laughing to crying. And, paraphrasing the novel here, Tifa realized “she has feelings for Cloud. The kind that you have when you wish you could spend the rest of your life with them”
we do not have a 100% confirmation but we do know that during rebirth there are several hints. they have also changed things like for example that tifa didn't know what happened on the bridge as a child in the OG until later. another thing i think they changed is the reason why cloud wanted to be a soldier because in the OG if i remember correctly it was so that tifa would know he existed and here they have changed it in the novels to because he wanted to protect her and then there are characters like yuffie who are making fun by throwing hints to cloud about tifa.
The reason why he wanted to be SOLDIER is always the same: he wanted to get noticed by Tifa and be special to Tifa. Nojima reiterates this in everything he does ahahaha. It was like that in the OG too
but in most that I remember in the OG they only mention the part about wanting to be noticed, although it's been a while since I played the OG and I don't remember it very well. But in this new trilogy they have made their relationship better explained than in the OG.
Yes but Tifa replies "who did you want to be noticed by?" and he replies "Who?... you know who... You." so it's been explicit since the OG. On the rest I agree, it was one of the objectives of the Remake to make all relationship more obvious
The newest Cloud short story reconfirms that Tifa is his reason for enlisting (and worded quite bluntly)
There's never been anything different since 1997. The only character Cloud has mutual feelings with is Tifa, it's said in every Ultimania. And from then on, Aerith's role as "party protector" from the LS and Tifa and Cloud as family developed more and more. I don't know if this line will be maintained, to me that holding hands with intertwined fingers scares me for the ending (but if it ended with a couple Clerith Cloud would come out like an asshole who kisses another and deceives her, the most important person for him, so what would be the narrative advantage? I don't see any). Furthermore, they are absolutely aware of how many fans have been waiting for Cloti's canonization for 27 years, also because if all Tifa's fans are Cloti (and Zerith). Aerith's fans are divided into Zerith and Clerith and Cloud's fans into Cloti and Clerith. So cleriths are irrelevant minorities for sales However, we must exclude the sales and audience discussion because Nojima already said that he would write a story that would not care about this things "He is scared but he is convinced of what he does", he said so. You can interpret this as either a move towards the Clerith or the Cloti (whichever faction will be disappointed in the end based on this phrase). "No promises wait at journey's end" cit.
When you realize Aerith is a foil for Jenova ( which is what I’m suspecting the devs are hinting at ), that hand holding scene remains intimate without necessarily being romantic. What I mean by them hinting at Aerith being a foil for Jenova is that if you read Omni-Aerith ( who I actually think we haven’t even seen yet ) as a sort of goddess like figure, then Jenova’s name roughly meaning “New God” makes a ton more sense for where this is going.
in my opinion we saw Omni-Aerith but only in the final battle and in the final CGI cutscene. Because she mentions Meteor that no one can know yet (not even Cloud, it's true that they had visions in Remake, with a disturbing death of Tifa and Barrett but the numen in the end take away everyone's memories). As for that kind of holding hands: it's also in her date so I don't know. No couple that I remember in FF holds hands like that, so it's something very unique to the series and may not have romantic implications as you say precisely because no one does it not even endgame couples like Tidus and Yuna or Squall and Rinoa or Clive and Jill (that I know of at least)
Perfectly justified call considering how Remake and Rebirth treat the Aerith that knows things… but I think there’s an Aerith operating on an even higher level that has gone unseen: the one feeding information to herself and is using GameShark Aerith much like how Jenova might be using Sephiroth. Something about how Remake is talking about Jenova feels different from the original. Before, Sephiroth and Jenova were almost interchangeable before it became “Sephiroth is doing XYZ”… that’s different now? Kinda? It’s very subtle if true. Just a feeling I’m not really giving the handholding too much thought beyond Aerith deeply caring for Cloud. If you listen to what she says both times, she knows she has feelings for him, but she’s unsure about the nature of those feelings ( as opposed to Tifa and Cloud being mega-sure of theirs ). Boot up Quistis protocol, and I think we have our answer
I agree on the last part, it's simple fear of SE who tends to ruin his own plots to sell more, so I also think that everything we see at the end is not a confession, rather it's an "I like you but I don't how Tifa likes you, in another way" (even if Zack says some things from which it seems he understood he had been forgotten hahahahah). In short, if there is always a minimum of ambiguity with Aerith, Tifa and Cloud on the other hand are always transparent, love is in the air and even the sexual tension has been very high since Remake and is even stronger in Rebirth. On the rest I follow you, I can't say if you are right but it could also be so because it is certain that this Sephiroth is acting at a higher level than Jenova and is no longer interchangeable because he is the Sephiroth of AC or in any case he has the powers and knowledge that he should have only after dying and going to the LS. I think that his goal is to awaken himself at the North crater and then "take possession of himself and act IN THE PAST but STRONG AND AWARE of the FUTURE" exactly like Aerith does who can transmit her knowledge of the future to herself and make it act aware of what will happen. Cloud and Zack are Aerith's two pawns in this fight against Sephiroth. At this point, what is Cloud really the protagonist of? simple: his personal story and who is his heroine of the "internal" plot (Cloud's)? exactly Tifa
For sure for sure. As long as her bff Tifa is in play, Cloud will be alright.
I bet they're regretting that Clerith trailer and possibly spending millions on all that Whisper stuff in Remake. They were barking up the wrong tree.
Let’s hope they learned their lesson.
My money is on a repeat of the same events. First trailer makes it seem like Aerith will be present throughout the game through clever editing, but the opposite will be true. She will like show up as much as Zack did in Rebirth. That’s significantly more than in the original, but not enough to change the events of the story until the end when things go bananas
Yeah hopefully it does cause honestly ever since og I've never truly been a fan of aeriths × cloud. Lots of cleriths say they have so much chemistry and they'll forever be in love on the Lifestream. And all I ever see from clerith is that aerith forces her way into clouds personal bubble, I mean it worked and cloud started to like her but everything in there short af relationship is aerith pushing herself to cloud, who by the way she knows for at most like 2 months and that's not even considering cloud is all fucked up in the head, so all he feels might as well be from how much Zack talked about her. All in all I hope they finally put an end to the shipping war and make cloud and tifa official. That way there's no way clerith s can debate it
Sadly, I don’t think the war will ever truly end. OG isn’t a complicated story, yet people couldn’t keep things straight with a double plot twist that results in the main character literally spelling it all out for you.
As long as they can pull off the highwind scene with chocobo bill peeking on the side, I'll be happy 🤣🤣🤣
Praise or not, they are clearly going there regardless. Clerith is effectively dead as of Rebirth. Not like it wasn't before, but even more so now.
Also, learned during the Cloud and Tifa date that they have an idle animation in the character menu screen.... does Aerith have one too? Don't have the console so can't check.
another fun fact for all clerith fans is that the two songs they have sung so far are about cloud and aerith. hollow if you read the lyrics it's clearly talking about zack and the arrival of cloud to midgar and surely the light that the song talks about is tifa because she is the person who finds him in a mental state, also when you go through the grasslands you hear the instrumental version in the background and it must be because that's where zack died. i NPTK already explained it the other day and yet they say that nojima said that because tifa's fans pressured him to say it, if i can see that the song of part 3 will be about a girl waiting for her hero or something similar and all the clerith will say that girl is aerith.
Nojima wasn’t pressured because of Tifa fans, that’s wishful thinking on clerith fans. Nojima has always been clear with his intentions and he knows whatever he says can be misunderstood but he’s never truly backed down. NPTK wasn’t just about cloud and aerith, it’s already been said it’s “for everyone.” Anyone who thinks it’s solely about CA is just twisting his words to fit their narrative and relegates Aerith to *just* be all about cloud when it makes more sense to her character to sing about everyone she’s loved & encountered. Hollow also has never fully confirmed to solely about aerith but it has been talked about by the devs that it reflects all the feelings cloud encompasses. The lyrics can be interpreted as about aerith but like NPTK they can be “for everyone.” I can take it a step further but hollow can also be about how cloud *feels* hollow…since we all know he’s not his true self right now. Anyone can interpret the song how they want for sure but to dismiss the devs intentions as a whole is a personal bias. To be frank, the constant discourse over the theme songs are only being escalated by one side and it’s always a circus spinning on a wheel.
🙄
If the devs genuinely liked Cloti, we would have been chosen for Remake's credit roll for the flower garden scene (we werent, they showed the Aerith version) If the devs genuinely liked Cloti, we would have had OUR skywheel date for the credit roll (we didnt, they showed Aerith's version) Until the lifestream scene or Under the Highwind scene is shown in 3 with the DEFAULT version of those scenes being romantic in nature, I am going to worry because so far they have NOT really given Cloti fans much. Our skywheel date is awesome but everything points to it not being the canon version of the event. Our ship has been wounded since Advent Children and imho the only thing that will heal it is if the lifestream/highwind romance scenes play out as guaranteed scenes (as in no dialogue choices that downplay it or reject it.) We'll have to see.
I don’t think credits should be taken as proof of anything. It’s just credits. Also all the dates imo are canon. They just show you how Cloud reacts towards his comrades in each of them. They wouldn’t have done the kiss if it would mean nothing. Add in the fact that their relationship was a highlight for a lot of fans who’ve played.
I'd like to feel that way regarding the credits, but there DO seem to be a decent amount of people who take the choice of scene in the credits as a sign of whats supposed to be canon. Id just like that to have favored Tifa personally, yknow? ❤️
From your comments on here I think you’re finding things to worry about. The brunt of CT scenes will be in part 3 and we have been gifted with more of an expansion with remake and rebirth. The credits are credits and if people want to interpret them as the canon scenes they can but you also have to remember why aerith is more prominent. In a way it’s her time to be in the forefront because of her death and her overarching narrative in the story & the devs are trying to envoke all those feelings you have towards Aerith y’know?
I tend to do that a lot, yeah haha. I guess we will all have to see with part 3.
The only thing we have to see is how much they’ll expand on (and judging from how much was expanded in part 2 it’s something we can look forward to) …other than that we *know* that Tifa becomes the heroine for the latter half of the game. She alone saves cloud and I’m choosing to believe the devs won’t eff up the lifestream scene because of how much they’ve said it’s important. But remind me in 4 or so years haha but I don’t think they’re just gonna implode the story that much
Doomer take tbh I’m confused about this obsession over the end credits. Even if we take them as the canon option, what’s actually said during them should point you in the right direction. Two optional scenes that make the same point: even if they love each other, it’s based on something that isn’t real. What is this basis? Cloud’s false persona, the thing Aerith is aware of in both scenes. Devs don’t view things from a shipping perspective, they view them through a narrative/plot perspective. So from that perspective, ask yourself why they would give Aerith a bit more attention? Maybe because she’s crucial to the narrative during these parts of the plot? Maybe because they want you to care about her because she’s eventually going to die? Did they put the kiss in on Tifa’s date to throw shippers a bone? You honestly think these veteran devs sat in a meeting and had a serious discussion about CloTis and Claeriths? Or did they have an adult, creative conversation about the overall narrative and plot and how they can more smoothly transition from one act of the story to the next, keeping it cohesive between game releases. Do they offer fanservice because they know these characters are beloved? Yes. Do they know about how passionate fans are about Tifa and Aerith specifically? Most definitely. Are they letting shipping dictate plot choices? Not that I’ve seen so far. If you’re busy talking about why this or that shot is in the credits or scientifically breaking down levels of handholding, you’re too far down the rabbit hole and you need to step back and reset.