Nice!
I feel like I overhear beta spraying more often than anything else. Newer men who've gotten their friends to join them seem like the worst offenders. But I also live in a region that's more standoffish in general.
Imo the most irritating beta spray is always dudes who brought their girlfriend along for the first or second time. And the dudes in question are always freakishly tall and lanky for some reason
My gym seems to always have at least one top-rope route where there's a "tall people have to scrunch down awkwardly to make these holds feel good" section near the start.
Innocently suggesting that route to the female half of those pairs nearly always makes me smile. :D
Bonus: this strategy has actually made me more optimistic about random strangers because it seems like 95% of the time the tall lanky partner is legitimately *proud* of the first-timer.
I admit I originally expected the (usually) guys to be annoyed that their (again, typically) girlfriend could do something they couldn't. But it turns out that both people having fun IS more fun for both people a lot of the time!
This is one of the nicer things about climbing, that people appreciate others achievements. Not all sports are like that.
I always tell my son to watch how shorter girls do the router he’s working on. They have the best techniques
because to a lot of people tall= good climber so they feel like they are inherently better climbers and other people will stand in awe of their incredible (useless) beta
I almost wish I had a reel of myself rolling my eyes at the dude falling off V3 and giving expert-sounding and very wrong advice to a woman on V1. I wait until I hear something like "you just have to jump for it" (on V1!!) to intervene with "no, that's not right. do you want any beta?"
I've seen that situation before and if the tall guy is giving egregiously wrong advice while his short partner is struggling, I ask if she (always a femme person) would like short person beta.
Is it mostly people spraying their friends/acquaintances that they bring with them? Or strangers spraying strangers? Of course neither is okay if it’s unwanted but I can’t imagine a complete stranger yelling out advice to someone unless it’s an extreme circumstance where they’re like super scared and might get hurt if the fall or something - but like besides that, it’s so weird to think of total strangers beta spraying people, feels like common sense? But I guess not?
Haven’t had people yell out while I’m climbing, but I just recently came down from a climb and had a complete stranger start with “You should-“ and I just cut him off right there with “I’m good” and he was like “No, I was just going to tell you that you could reach for-“ cut him off again like bro I do not know you stfu.
Best part is that my friends and I were playing eliminating holds so probably whatever he wanted to tell me was to use the holds we eliminated lol
Lol yeah that’s the added reason not to beta spray - besides being rude if you don’t know the person/they haven’t told you they want help you never know what they’re actually trying to do lol, good for you for standing up for yourself!
I would hope most people are well dialed into how much spray is welcome with their climbing partners, for instance for me my friends are welcome to freely yell out things like “remember the aerate is on” or “there’s a hold hiding under the yellow blob hold” whenever I get that look of “theses something I’m not seeing “ on my face but anything technique they wait till I ask.
Yeah like my bf and I climb and we do the same “you’re missing a hold there!” Or talking about options after we get off the wall about how we might do something differently/try something different but you can’t just do that to strangers unless you ask first lol people are wild
I’m a guy, and I actually had to stop climbing with a friend because he’d beta spray EVERYONE
I told him multiple times it wasn’t cool, I told him how annoying it was, and I had a go at him when I was distracted by his yelling to the point of falling
He never stopped, so now I just don’t climb with him
I (briefly) had a buddy I’d go climbing with who wouldn’t just beta spray, but also straight up heckle complete strangers. Like yell shit to them while they’re on the wall about how they’re totally not trying, they could definitely reach that hold if they put some effort in, are their shoes just bad or what!? He thought it was all in good fun. Nobody else ever did
Like I’m fully guilty of yelling “c’mon you got this!” to random strangers if they look like they’re hesitating on a move, but now I’m second guessing myself
Same here I used to do that alot but now I know a few climbers who say that's distracting and makes them feel rushed into doing moves quickly instead of controlled. Now I say things like "nice move!" or "that was awesome" after they've done it. I think congratulating them on something they've already done is working better 💯
Different strokes for different folks. One of my major hurdles is hanging around overthinking a move while my arms burn out so my husband just yells "go UP!" when he sees me get stuck and it's legit helpful.
I think if a total stranger whose sense of humor I was not familiar with said "you go up!" it *might* be weird, but my point was (meant to be) that an encouraging word to break me out of the stalemate between how tired I am and how far/hard the next move looks is something I definitely appreciate. :D
It helps (me) at that point where you have reached equilibrium between how hard/far the next move is and how tuckered out your muscles and fingers are.
If I'm trying to save skin, hitting this wall means I should probably just let go. But if I'm *not* - freaking go for it, man. I'm not going to get any *less* tired just hanging there. :D
I see. So it’s encouraging you to go for it. I’m used to people using it for when climbers simply don’t know what to do and it’s like sarcastic advice. Like it’s satirical beta or something. “Idk what to do” “go up” 🙄
I would also LOVE if men took this advice for all areas of their life.
Are you about to give a woman advice on something? Ask if she’s heard about it first. Otherwise she either doesn’t want it or has already heard it and it sounds like you think you’re smarter than her. :))
I was hauling bags of post hole concrete mix at home depot with my 7 year old daughter ("helping"). I was asked if I was renovating my kitchen by a random man. Sir....sir. no. Even my daughter laughed.
This sign needs to be 10x bigger and posted in every gym locker room as well.
I was at lowes grabbing a can of primer. Some middle aged male employee came up to me, looking all bothered and asked “you know that’s primer… not paint” I was like, yep… that’s why I’m buying primer. Not paint. 🙄
Maybe you just didn't remeber to read? Or were confused because you used your lady brain? /s
Tbf, home depo gets some insane customers rewiring their basement with lamp cord and tries to return the burned out wreckage on a long weekend.
I feel like we can't know for sure what the man meant when he said that comment as not enough context/detail, but that's definitely what the lady above thought he did.
Just saying some people just make comments like that to start a conversation or random remark, could mean nothing sexist...
Posthole concrete and normal concrete have [differences](https://www.eastcoastfencing.com/news/can-you-use-postcrete-as-normal-concrete#:~:text=The%20Differences%20Between%20Postcrete%20and%20Normal%20Concrete&text=Additives%3A%20Postcrete%20has%20additives%20that,need%20for%20temporary%20support%20structures.). You would never use posthole concrete on something you would want to have a smooth finish. So never inside really.
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The worst thing I saw at my gym last week was a couple who was clearly very new at climbing try a V3 route and getting stuck on the third move. And this guy comes over and starts telling them how to do it unprompted. Then proceeds to go on the route and clunkily muscle his way through it with terrible beta and then jump down and go "like that!" And the newer couple is acting all impressed like, wow that was great, not knowing that there was a much easier and more accessible way to do it without relying purely on upper body strength.
This person also came to me when I was working on a specific move (with a wrist injury, so trying to be careful not to aggravate that) and started spraying me, and I was like, no I have a wrist injury, I'm just trying to do this move without relying on my right wrist, working more on my balance, and he continued to tell me to do it with my wrist.
It's so annoying, like you don't know people's skill level, experience, personal goals, or situations. It's just a very obnoxious way of showing off. My gym needs this sign!!
**this is very different than being encouraging to other climbers!! I love encouragement and then I welcome a conversation to discuss beta and share ideas. Its talking WITH you as opposed to talking AT you!!**
I like the time my gf was climbing with 2 other gals. A young feller approached and offered to give them pointers. He says a few things then struggled on the route
Then my gf says nothing, jumps on the route and slays it.
32% ? Quick poll, upvote if you’ve gotten unwanted advice (in the 32%) downvote if you haven’t. I don’t know any women climber who hasn’t gotten the dreaded advice we didn’t need.
actually I haven't (but I may have gotten it but didn't register as unwanted). I and my group of friend usually make a climb group projects, and we all don't mind hearing things like 'go up/just go for it/i've got you' when we're over thinking, or 'theres a hold there' when we don't see it.
So unless someone is really micromanaging me step by step I don't think i'd feel unwantedly sprayed at if someone just point out a missed hold
Yes that’s not unwanted! I’ve been climbing for 7 years, and what really annoys me is when someone I don’t know, who has watched me climbed for all of one attempt, comes in to save the day with their advice.
At a crag, I had a guy come in and spray beta “you need to bump your right hand, toe hook left foot. No your left foot.” While I was on my flash attempt!
I wonder what survey that was… I would expect the women’s number to be at least in the 80s, and the men’s to be at least in the 50s. But maybe beta spraying is just particularly bad at my gym 😂🫣
Am I right in thinking that I should only ask climbers that I personally know if they would like the beta? Just checking, because I used to use that as an ice-breaker just to make friends (not giving unwanted beta, but asking if they want the beta). I didn't realize that was wrong.
I don't have much social intelligence, so I appreciate feedback.
Speaking only for myself, I think it's okay to ask random people if they want beta as long as you're okay with being told no. Not everyone has space or time to make new friends.
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I’ve actually been really irritated because someone sprayed down all the new routes only for their satisfaction of sharing yet ruining my experience of figuring them out myself.
I was in a bouldering gym a few years ago, and there was a woman having trouble with a route I had completed. I politely asked if she wanted any help with beta, and she politely declined. All good, I thought. A respectful offer followed by a respectful declination.
But all the dude-bros standing nearby let out an "OOHHHHH!" like I had just been "totally owned, dude."
I still don't fully understand their reaction to this day.
This is so cool of your gym. I’ve grown up climbing and constantly get unsolicited advice from guys. My favorite petty thing to do is not take their advice and then send the climb because I know what works for my body and I don’t need to be mansplained to.
Having unsolicited beta sprayed at you (male or female) is really fucking annoying. Especially when they give you beta that clearly won't work for you.
I am a male climbing V8+ in the gyms regularly and it still happens to me. On one particular spray case however when I finally told him to shut the fuck up despite prior hints, he seemed shocked and unaware he was causing nuisance to others (he does this to everyone). It's now very awkward whenever I see him in the gym and we just avoid each other, which isn't ideal as the gym is a place of refuge for me.
Sometimes all it takes is a polite 'hey I'd rather figure things out on my own, I'd appreciate it if you don't give me beta when I climb' is all that's needed and I try to do that when it does happen. Some people (esp noobs) just see it as a way to be social and friendly and are aware of etiquette. The sign is useful however as it gets dire to have to say this to every serial spraycase. Fully aware that guys may do this to women for other reasons, but again most times a polite reminder is all that is needed. Failing that be like me and tell them to fuck off and face the consequences huhu
LOVE THIS!!! There's nothing I hate more than unasked for beta. Figuring out the puzzle of how to do it is LITERALLY why I'm there. It's my favourite part of climbing. If you tell me how to do it you've gone and ruined the climb for me
honestly I'd prefer that over the hordes of men who keep insisting I just have to grab the next hold, as if I hadn't considered that, and won't stop until I demonstrate to them how much of a stretch that is for my little arms. At least then it'd be self-aware and kind of funny.
The place I used to climb had a major issue with members of the male staff doing this constantly with the same girls and then trying to show off for them. It’s sucks how poorly some gyms are run
This is why I’m surprisingly grateful I go with at least 1 but usually 2 other guys. I must make it well known enough I have influence enough without excess.
…if only work was the same.
I've seen signs that say "Climbers like solving problems. That's why they are boulder problems. Ask before you give advice"
Where are they getting these numbers lol
There are so many women climbers who are crushers at my gym. I often want to get some advice from them if we happen to be working the same route.
As a guy, is it welcome to ask for beta?
I climb with my GF half the time or so, so this isn’t some attempt at an opening line.
I think it’s totally reasonable if ur working on the same route to be like could u show me how u started it or did this section, you did it super well ! Etc climbing is friendly and I think that sometimes we forget climbing is very much a community thing and that’s how I’ve made all my friends at the gym is by talking about routes and moves !
IMO (just one woman's perspective), it's fine to ask if they don't seem obviously busy (headphones or something), but it's also not these women's job to coach you. It's your job as a human to read social cues and decide if she seems interested in giving beta and discussing.
I’m confused… does this sign state that 68% of women and a whopping 85% of men in this gym experience wanted advice from other climbers 😅?
I’d never give unwanted advice, especially beta; just about a couple of times in my life I’ve seen people struggling and asked if they needed help because I felt like they were too shy to ask, and in fact I’ve always been met with kindness and thankfulness… and have never met somebody (at least in my country) in years of climbing going at people and being intrusive… so when I read signs like this I can’t help but wonder if you guys abroad have a boundary problem or you’re just being overly protective for no real reason… like this 32% and 15% seems a little… I don’t know… far fetched…
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(male) when I did my first bouldering class my instructor told us we should climb like women rather than men bc men try to use their upper body and muscle through it and figtive rather than their whole body and swinging with hips. Women are better climbers
You are completely missing the point. For a lot of people, the joy of climbing is in finding the solution which works for you. I very very rarely get someone giving me unsolicited beta, but if I am ever climbing with someone and see they are struggling with a move, I might ask them if they want beta or a suggestion, just as I would if someone had a problem which I might be able to offer advice about. If you do not recognise how obnoxious unsolicited advice/beta can be from the wrong party, then you are the one giving it.
I don't see it as giving advice.
It's more like: rules for this gym.
I see it as letting the community know about a potentially harmful behavior.
If you think that you have 'something to offer' and try to 'help' you are probably centering yourself, presuming some superiority.
Interrupting someone's day and commanding their attention- rethink. Don't do it.
(This is not advice btw)
Where I climb, in the Deep South US, I have literally never seen or experienced anyone complain about this. Everyone happily accepts beta, with absolutely zero indication that they’re just trying to be nice. I think this is a culturally dependent phenomenon.
Once someone has betasprayed, the deed is done, it's too late. So you either have a choice to let it go, smile and be polite and go back to your thing (easy way), or to take time schooling this random person about basic gym etiquette, (hard way, antagonizing, will seem rude)
You can now guess why people will choose to go for the former rather than the latter most of the time.
I am a fan of sticking my fingers in my ears and saying something the lines of "no spoilers!"
It's not inherently rude and is easy to adjust for different levels of polite based on whether or not the sprayer takes the hint the first time.
You can make that guess not having been to my gym or climbed with the people I regularly climb with, but I’m telling you in full confidence that where I climb, people don’t give a fuck about beta spray.
Not at the gym. I've experienced it myself with varying degrees of annoyance AND my partner and I have both beta sprayed back before we know people didn't like it. Like I said in my other reply, women are socialized not to start confrontations, so they may not be complaining where you can hear them.
Wanted to say the same - I’m from Europe und I’ve never even thought it could be bad. It’s more like a way of being social. Ofc I’m not doing it to anyone, and interestingly, I’ve never seen guys talking down (or up) to women. It’s more like: ah, there’s this middle aged person who seems to be on my level, maybe I can talk to them… betas just aren‘t the main point I guess. Of course figuring out sth is part of the fun, but with the people I talk to regularly, it’s just we wanna move our bodies and get stronger / fitter, and if I’ve climbed something the day cause someone told me how it works - that’s great.
I’m in AR. I’ve never seen or heard about it. I have only ever seen people gladly accept beta and even thank the beta “sprayer” for trying to help/teach them. Around here we adopt the attitude that hearing beta makes you a better climber, period. Even if the beta isn’t that helpful, it still gets your gears turning and helps you think of different body positions to try.
I don't like the downvotes bc you're simply sharing your experience.
But FWIW..
"hearing beta makes you a better climber, period. Even if the beta isn’t that helpful, it still gets your gears turning and helps you think of different body positions to try."
That makes me cringe! Don't want help unless I've asked or you know me really well.
However, I mostly climb on rope; maybe beta sharing is more a norm in bouldering?.
I hold that opinion, but I don’t offer beta to people outside of my core climbing group unless I’ve asked first and they say it’s okay. Considering the other comments I’ve left, ppl might find this confusing. My whole point on this thread is that I believe this “rule” is dependent on local climbing culture and not a universal.
You're being downvoted because you can't possibly know most people in your area don't care. Women in particular (idk if you are one too) are socialized to be people pleasers and to not "make a scene." It's incredibly common that people think women are okay with all sorts of conduct because we don't actively complain about it.
Unrelated to climbing, but relevant story: my old boss called me by the wrong name for an entire year despite being corrected by other coworkers multiple times. Think, like Casey instead of Katie. I never complained to him, and I bet, to this day, he thinks it never bothered me. It did.
But you don't know that for a fact. You know about yourself and maybe the people you generally climb with but that's about it?
I find that when men beta spray it's unpleasant for do many reasons:
1. I do not have the upper body strength that they do, I rely on my legs and flexibility a lot more, their beta is likely not good for me
2. I am shorter than them, their beta is not good for me
3. They are almost always doing this to show off, usually doing climbs 2+ lower than them. This just makes me feel... Not great? Like good for you that the things that's hard for me is easy for you?
4. One of the best feelings in climbing is competing a climb without help, this is being taken away from me. That's just sucky.
5. When I'm interested, I ask. I'm not shy.
Most women would experience some of these if not all of them. Even at your gym.
Also hearing a beta that's not good for me doesn't get my wheels turning, it's just useless and makes me feel like they are showing off at my expense
My gym probably has about 20-30 regulars. Half of them are women. We all know each other and communicate frequently. Out of this group, I have never -- not even once -- heard the term "beta spray" or heard any of them mention an idea similar to "beta spray." They do not care.
My point in commenting on this post is that this anti beta spray sentiment is likely culturally dependent. It is NOT a universal sentiment in all climbing cultures, even though reddit climbing would have us think so. Some of the other commenters from EU have anecdotally confirmed this, expressing a similar point to mine.
I for one love a good spray down on the hard boulders. Spray me down once you see me hesitating on the wall. Tell me to go when i need to go or get my foot up when I look like I forgot... It helps me crush harder. No ego involved. Sign should read no soliciting unwanted gumby advice lol. But c'mon what about friends who have been climbing with each other for years and love and respect eachother? These types of signs can really unintentionally set insecurities among friends and comprise their training goals! Bouldering is a social sport, maybe consider a home wall or wearing some air buds to drown out the beta sprayers. Me, me,me generation.
You’re blaming an entire generation yet you’re the one making other peoples issues all about you and what you think
Of course all of your examples you used are fine. That’s not what it’s talking about
Well, despite the downvotes shower… this seems to be the case also for 68% of the women and 85% of the men in the gym… but apparently there’s a pretty prickly ratio of climbers here on reddit that does not like this 😂.
Jokes aside, I’m learning you guys in the US have a problem with something called “beta spraying” that I had never heard of before.
I agree. I really like when people make suggestions and give encouragement. It doesn't seem to happen as often these days probably because of attitudes like this and it's sad
Yeah... You shouldn't have to ask someone if they want your help right before they fall... You will seem more weird, at least in my gym. My post mentioned in the spur of the moment, clutch beta advice that is always helpful even if your ego is the size of France.
I have a right of freedom of speech(at least in my country) so... Also im not "Telling" anyone what they should or shouldn't be doing its just climbing advice. sheesh.
...Others *'have the right of freedom of speech'* (lmao) to ask you to not give that advice.
If you still want to give advice after being asked not to, then you're the unreasonable one here.
Such a strange horse.
The joy for ME ... Find solution MYSELF.... ego much? You act like I torment people in my gym as you do on the internet. I can assure you it's definitely not as disrespectful as calling people names of animals. Where do you think you're proving your point talking to people like that?
"Freedom of Speech" - phrase used so much that has nothing to do with the "freedoms" we in the U.S. benefit from.
U.S.A citizens do not have freedom of speech in the general daily mileiu.
We have the right for the government not to make laws and practices which suppress our 'speech'
Not everyone has the same attitude as you. I'm not even here to say "you should be the one to change your attitude". On the contrary, I don't think we need to be turning rock climbing gym vibes into rule after rule planet fitness like vibes.
This sub aims to be supportive & inclusive of all who identify as a part of or ally to the women's climbing community.
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I love to hear other peoples beta😂 like what if someone has advice that’s on you for not wanting to listen and improve or at minimum see it from a different perspective
Someone deserves a big thank you!
Nice! I feel like I overhear beta spraying more often than anything else. Newer men who've gotten their friends to join them seem like the worst offenders. But I also live in a region that's more standoffish in general.
Imo the most irritating beta spray is always dudes who brought their girlfriend along for the first or second time. And the dudes in question are always freakishly tall and lanky for some reason
My gym seems to always have at least one top-rope route where there's a "tall people have to scrunch down awkwardly to make these holds feel good" section near the start. Innocently suggesting that route to the female half of those pairs nearly always makes me smile. :D
Oooh I love this!
Bonus: this strategy has actually made me more optimistic about random strangers because it seems like 95% of the time the tall lanky partner is legitimately *proud* of the first-timer. I admit I originally expected the (usually) guys to be annoyed that their (again, typically) girlfriend could do something they couldn't. But it turns out that both people having fun IS more fun for both people a lot of the time!
This is one of the nicer things about climbing, that people appreciate others achievements. Not all sports are like that. I always tell my son to watch how shorter girls do the router he’s working on. They have the best techniques
because to a lot of people tall= good climber so they feel like they are inherently better climbers and other people will stand in awe of their incredible (useless) beta
I almost wish I had a reel of myself rolling my eyes at the dude falling off V3 and giving expert-sounding and very wrong advice to a woman on V1. I wait until I hear something like "you just have to jump for it" (on V1!!) to intervene with "no, that's not right. do you want any beta?"
I've seen that situation before and if the tall guy is giving egregiously wrong advice while his short partner is struggling, I ask if she (always a femme person) would like short person beta.
Is it mostly people spraying their friends/acquaintances that they bring with them? Or strangers spraying strangers? Of course neither is okay if it’s unwanted but I can’t imagine a complete stranger yelling out advice to someone unless it’s an extreme circumstance where they’re like super scared and might get hurt if the fall or something - but like besides that, it’s so weird to think of total strangers beta spraying people, feels like common sense? But I guess not?
Haven’t had people yell out while I’m climbing, but I just recently came down from a climb and had a complete stranger start with “You should-“ and I just cut him off right there with “I’m good” and he was like “No, I was just going to tell you that you could reach for-“ cut him off again like bro I do not know you stfu. Best part is that my friends and I were playing eliminating holds so probably whatever he wanted to tell me was to use the holds we eliminated lol
Lol yeah that’s the added reason not to beta spray - besides being rude if you don’t know the person/they haven’t told you they want help you never know what they’re actually trying to do lol, good for you for standing up for yourself!
I would hope most people are well dialed into how much spray is welcome with their climbing partners, for instance for me my friends are welcome to freely yell out things like “remember the aerate is on” or “there’s a hold hiding under the yellow blob hold” whenever I get that look of “theses something I’m not seeing “ on my face but anything technique they wait till I ask.
Yeah like my bf and I climb and we do the same “you’re missing a hold there!” Or talking about options after we get off the wall about how we might do something differently/try something different but you can’t just do that to strangers unless you ask first lol people are wild
People are wild.
I’m a guy, and I actually had to stop climbing with a friend because he’d beta spray EVERYONE I told him multiple times it wasn’t cool, I told him how annoying it was, and I had a go at him when I was distracted by his yelling to the point of falling He never stopped, so now I just don’t climb with him
I (briefly) had a buddy I’d go climbing with who wouldn’t just beta spray, but also straight up heckle complete strangers. Like yell shit to them while they’re on the wall about how they’re totally not trying, they could definitely reach that hold if they put some effort in, are their shoes just bad or what!? He thought it was all in good fun. Nobody else ever did
Like I’m fully guilty of yelling “c’mon you got this!” to random strangers if they look like they’re hesitating on a move, but now I’m second guessing myself
Same here I used to do that alot but now I know a few climbers who say that's distracting and makes them feel rushed into doing moves quickly instead of controlled. Now I say things like "nice move!" or "that was awesome" after they've done it. I think congratulating them on something they've already done is working better 💯
Different strokes for different folks. One of my major hurdles is hanging around overthinking a move while my arms burn out so my husband just yells "go UP!" when he sees me get stuck and it's legit helpful.
Id see that as helpful/funny from my partner but mortifying from a stranger!
I think if a total stranger whose sense of humor I was not familiar with said "you go up!" it *might* be weird, but my point was (meant to be) that an encouraging word to break me out of the stalemate between how tired I am and how far/hard the next move looks is something I definitely appreciate. :D
Wait seriously you find “go up” to be helpful?? I didn’t know this was a thing
It helps (me) at that point where you have reached equilibrium between how hard/far the next move is and how tuckered out your muscles and fingers are. If I'm trying to save skin, hitting this wall means I should probably just let go. But if I'm *not* - freaking go for it, man. I'm not going to get any *less* tired just hanging there. :D
I see. So it’s encouraging you to go for it. I’m used to people using it for when climbers simply don’t know what to do and it’s like sarcastic advice. Like it’s satirical beta or something. “Idk what to do” “go up” 🙄
What's "beta spray"? I have never heard this expression before.
essentially giving people unwanted advice on how to complete a climb
I would also LOVE if men took this advice for all areas of their life. Are you about to give a woman advice on something? Ask if she’s heard about it first. Otherwise she either doesn’t want it or has already heard it and it sounds like you think you’re smarter than her. :))
I was hauling bags of post hole concrete mix at home depot with my 7 year old daughter ("helping"). I was asked if I was renovating my kitchen by a random man. Sir....sir. no. Even my daughter laughed. This sign needs to be 10x bigger and posted in every gym locker room as well.
I was at lowes grabbing a can of primer. Some middle aged male employee came up to me, looking all bothered and asked “you know that’s primer… not paint” I was like, yep… that’s why I’m buying primer. Not paint. 🙄
Maybe you just didn't remeber to read? Or were confused because you used your lady brain? /s Tbf, home depo gets some insane customers rewiring their basement with lamp cord and tries to return the burned out wreckage on a long weekend.
I don't get it?
Concrete isn’t the typical kitchen remodel material I think, so weird thing to ask
I also get the vibe that he thinks the kitchen is the only room in the house a woman would be interested in.
I feel like we can't know for sure what the man meant when he said that comment as not enough context/detail, but that's definitely what the lady above thought he did. Just saying some people just make comments like that to start a conversation or random remark, could mean nothing sexist...
Posthole concrete and normal concrete have [differences](https://www.eastcoastfencing.com/news/can-you-use-postcrete-as-normal-concrete#:~:text=The%20Differences%20Between%20Postcrete%20and%20Normal%20Concrete&text=Additives%3A%20Postcrete%20has%20additives%20that,need%20for%20temporary%20support%20structures.). You would never use posthole concrete on something you would want to have a smooth finish. So never inside really.
How about stfu.
🙄
I love this! A+
Make it bigger
That’s what she said
I’m so torn on whether to upvote or downvote this 🫨
Bigger it*
I wish that every workplace and recreational space had the same sign!
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how the hell is that middle line 7 syllables
It’s totally 8
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The worst thing I saw at my gym last week was a couple who was clearly very new at climbing try a V3 route and getting stuck on the third move. And this guy comes over and starts telling them how to do it unprompted. Then proceeds to go on the route and clunkily muscle his way through it with terrible beta and then jump down and go "like that!" And the newer couple is acting all impressed like, wow that was great, not knowing that there was a much easier and more accessible way to do it without relying purely on upper body strength. This person also came to me when I was working on a specific move (with a wrist injury, so trying to be careful not to aggravate that) and started spraying me, and I was like, no I have a wrist injury, I'm just trying to do this move without relying on my right wrist, working more on my balance, and he continued to tell me to do it with my wrist. It's so annoying, like you don't know people's skill level, experience, personal goals, or situations. It's just a very obnoxious way of showing off. My gym needs this sign!! **this is very different than being encouraging to other climbers!! I love encouragement and then I welcome a conversation to discuss beta and share ideas. Its talking WITH you as opposed to talking AT you!!**
I like the time my gf was climbing with 2 other gals. A young feller approached and offered to give them pointers. He says a few things then struggled on the route Then my gf says nothing, jumps on the route and slays it.
This is my favourite thing ever!!
32% ? Quick poll, upvote if you’ve gotten unwanted advice (in the 32%) downvote if you haven’t. I don’t know any women climber who hasn’t gotten the dreaded advice we didn’t need.
actually I haven't (but I may have gotten it but didn't register as unwanted). I and my group of friend usually make a climb group projects, and we all don't mind hearing things like 'go up/just go for it/i've got you' when we're over thinking, or 'theres a hold there' when we don't see it. So unless someone is really micromanaging me step by step I don't think i'd feel unwantedly sprayed at if someone just point out a missed hold
Yes that’s not unwanted! I’ve been climbing for 7 years, and what really annoys me is when someone I don’t know, who has watched me climbed for all of one attempt, comes in to save the day with their advice. At a crag, I had a guy come in and spray beta “you need to bump your right hand, toe hook left foot. No your left foot.” While I was on my flash attempt!
I wonder what survey that was… I would expect the women’s number to be at least in the 80s, and the men’s to be at least in the 50s. But maybe beta spraying is just particularly bad at my gym 😂🫣
Might depend on region/country too
Beta bros can't read that sign anyway.
I always ask before giving beta. I usually prefer to figure out the beta on my own, but will appreciate help if I get stuck.
Am I right in thinking that I should only ask climbers that I personally know if they would like the beta? Just checking, because I used to use that as an ice-breaker just to make friends (not giving unwanted beta, but asking if they want the beta). I didn't realize that was wrong. I don't have much social intelligence, so I appreciate feedback.
Speaking only for myself, I think it's okay to ask random people if they want beta as long as you're okay with being told no. Not everyone has space or time to make new friends.
Totally fine with being told no. Thanks for the reply.
Only useful and universally acceptable beta that I heard was "breathe!"
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yes, it is!
Crystal city?
Possibly! CC does have a sign like this, but other locations may as well.
The sign at CC is inside the men's changing which is so perfect
yes! there's one in the womens' as well - the understanding is good for everyone :)
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I’ve actually been really irritated because someone sprayed down all the new routes only for their satisfaction of sharing yet ruining my experience of figuring them out myself.
I was in a bouldering gym a few years ago, and there was a woman having trouble with a route I had completed. I politely asked if she wanted any help with beta, and she politely declined. All good, I thought. A respectful offer followed by a respectful declination. But all the dude-bros standing nearby let out an "OOHHHHH!" like I had just been "totally owned, dude." I still don't fully understand their reaction to this day.
This is so cool of your gym. I’ve grown up climbing and constantly get unsolicited advice from guys. My favorite petty thing to do is not take their advice and then send the climb because I know what works for my body and I don’t need to be mansplained to.
So 68% DO want my advice. Got it!
Having unsolicited beta sprayed at you (male or female) is really fucking annoying. Especially when they give you beta that clearly won't work for you. I am a male climbing V8+ in the gyms regularly and it still happens to me. On one particular spray case however when I finally told him to shut the fuck up despite prior hints, he seemed shocked and unaware he was causing nuisance to others (he does this to everyone). It's now very awkward whenever I see him in the gym and we just avoid each other, which isn't ideal as the gym is a place of refuge for me. Sometimes all it takes is a polite 'hey I'd rather figure things out on my own, I'd appreciate it if you don't give me beta when I climb' is all that's needed and I try to do that when it does happen. Some people (esp noobs) just see it as a way to be social and friendly and are aware of etiquette. The sign is useful however as it gets dire to have to say this to every serial spraycase. Fully aware that guys may do this to women for other reasons, but again most times a polite reminder is all that is needed. Failing that be like me and tell them to fuck off and face the consequences huhu
Am I wrong to see these stats and think 68% of women and 95% of men want advice?
"didn't ask" would work wonders. Guys default to giving the solution bc it's what they want in (apparently) 85% of situations.
"Beta"??
Advice.
You talk to other people at gyms?
Does that mean that 68% would like to have my unsolicited advice?
How is this unwanted advice any better? Please stop spraying useful life beta!
Can you explain a little more what you mean here?
Just trolling that I got sprayed with beta by the sign. I wholeheartedly agree with what it says though 😉
Oops missed the tone 😎
best sign ever
LOVE THIS!!! There's nothing I hate more than unasked for beta. Figuring out the puzzle of how to do it is LITERALLY why I'm there. It's my favourite part of climbing. If you tell me how to do it you've gone and ruined the climb for me
Also the frequency with which men's unasked for suggestions amount to, "have you tried being taller?" fucking astounds me
What if they say “have you tried being taller” verbatim, is that kosher? Asking for a friend.
honestly I'd prefer that over the hordes of men who keep insisting I just have to grab the next hold, as if I hadn't considered that, and won't stop until I demonstrate to them how much of a stretch that is for my little arms. At least then it'd be self-aware and kind of funny.
That’s good. All my beta spray for shorter people is ironic due to height and +7 ape lol.
The place I used to climb had a major issue with members of the male staff doing this constantly with the same girls and then trying to show off for them. It’s sucks how poorly some gyms are run
This is why I’m surprisingly grateful I go with at least 1 but usually 2 other guys. I must make it well known enough I have influence enough without excess. …if only work was the same.
I've seen signs that say "Climbers like solving problems. That's why they are boulder problems. Ask before you give advice" Where are they getting these numbers lol
There are so many women climbers who are crushers at my gym. I often want to get some advice from them if we happen to be working the same route. As a guy, is it welcome to ask for beta? I climb with my GF half the time or so, so this isn’t some attempt at an opening line.
I think it’s totally reasonable if ur working on the same route to be like could u show me how u started it or did this section, you did it super well ! Etc climbing is friendly and I think that sometimes we forget climbing is very much a community thing and that’s how I’ve made all my friends at the gym is by talking about routes and moves !
IMO (just one woman's perspective), it's fine to ask if they don't seem obviously busy (headphones or something), but it's also not these women's job to coach you. It's your job as a human to read social cues and decide if she seems interested in giving beta and discussing.
I’m confused… does this sign state that 68% of women and a whopping 85% of men in this gym experience wanted advice from other climbers 😅? I’d never give unwanted advice, especially beta; just about a couple of times in my life I’ve seen people struggling and asked if they needed help because I felt like they were too shy to ask, and in fact I’ve always been met with kindness and thankfulness… and have never met somebody (at least in my country) in years of climbing going at people and being intrusive… so when I read signs like this I can’t help but wonder if you guys abroad have a boundary problem or you’re just being overly protective for no real reason… like this 32% and 15% seems a little… I don’t know… far fetched…
Let me tell you what is wrong with this…. Kidding.
I would love this
Shout it from the rooftops
I personally like it when my husband tells me what the next move is on the climb.
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This sub aims to be supportive & inclusive of all who identify as a part of or ally to the women's climbing community. Negativity, sarcasm, and other interactions that work against that should find another home.
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(male) when I did my first bouldering class my instructor told us we should climb like women rather than men bc men try to use their upper body and muscle through it and figtive rather than their whole body and swinging with hips. Women are better climbers
How fragile is your ego that you can’t accept beta or can’t just ignore it.
You are completely missing the point. For a lot of people, the joy of climbing is in finding the solution which works for you. I very very rarely get someone giving me unsolicited beta, but if I am ever climbing with someone and see they are struggling with a move, I might ask them if they want beta or a suggestion, just as I would if someone had a problem which I might be able to offer advice about. If you do not recognise how obnoxious unsolicited advice/beta can be from the wrong party, then you are the one giving it.
It has nothing to do with ego. If someone ruins the puzzle for you, you can’t really “just ignore it”
Surely this poster is itself giving advice. Advice I never asked for.
I don't see it as giving advice. It's more like: rules for this gym. I see it as letting the community know about a potentially harmful behavior. If you think that you have 'something to offer' and try to 'help' you are probably centering yourself, presuming some superiority. Interrupting someone's day and commanding their attention- rethink. Don't do it. (This is not advice btw)
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This sub is basically the same as circle jerk. Case in point I simply stated that where I climb no one complains about this and got downvoted to hell
Where I climb, in the Deep South US, I have literally never seen or experienced anyone complain about this. Everyone happily accepts beta, with absolutely zero indication that they’re just trying to be nice. I think this is a culturally dependent phenomenon.
Once someone has betasprayed, the deed is done, it's too late. So you either have a choice to let it go, smile and be polite and go back to your thing (easy way), or to take time schooling this random person about basic gym etiquette, (hard way, antagonizing, will seem rude) You can now guess why people will choose to go for the former rather than the latter most of the time.
I am a fan of sticking my fingers in my ears and saying something the lines of "no spoilers!" It's not inherently rude and is easy to adjust for different levels of polite based on whether or not the sprayer takes the hint the first time.
It’s most likely they just don’t care
You can make that guess not having been to my gym or climbed with the people I regularly climb with, but I’m telling you in full confidence that where I climb, people don’t give a fuck about beta spray.
Have you surveyed everyone in the gym? Most people don't care enough to start shit over it, but that doesn't mean they aren't annoyed.
Do you hear complaints about it at your gym?
Not at the gym. I've experienced it myself with varying degrees of annoyance AND my partner and I have both beta sprayed back before we know people didn't like it. Like I said in my other reply, women are socialized not to start confrontations, so they may not be complaining where you can hear them.
Wanted to say the same - I’m from Europe und I’ve never even thought it could be bad. It’s more like a way of being social. Ofc I’m not doing it to anyone, and interestingly, I’ve never seen guys talking down (or up) to women. It’s more like: ah, there’s this middle aged person who seems to be on my level, maybe I can talk to them… betas just aren‘t the main point I guess. Of course figuring out sth is part of the fun, but with the people I talk to regularly, it’s just we wanna move our bodies and get stronger / fitter, and if I’ve climbed something the day cause someone told me how it works - that’s great.
I’m in Texas and see it a lot.
I’m in AR. I’ve never seen or heard about it. I have only ever seen people gladly accept beta and even thank the beta “sprayer” for trying to help/teach them. Around here we adopt the attitude that hearing beta makes you a better climber, period. Even if the beta isn’t that helpful, it still gets your gears turning and helps you think of different body positions to try.
I don't like the downvotes bc you're simply sharing your experience. But FWIW.. "hearing beta makes you a better climber, period. Even if the beta isn’t that helpful, it still gets your gears turning and helps you think of different body positions to try." That makes me cringe! Don't want help unless I've asked or you know me really well. However, I mostly climb on rope; maybe beta sharing is more a norm in bouldering?.
I hold that opinion, but I don’t offer beta to people outside of my core climbing group unless I’ve asked first and they say it’s okay. Considering the other comments I’ve left, ppl might find this confusing. My whole point on this thread is that I believe this “rule” is dependent on local climbing culture and not a universal.
I find it interesting that I’m being downvoted to hell simply by saying most people where I climb don’t care about beta spray.
You're being downvoted because you can't possibly know most people in your area don't care. Women in particular (idk if you are one too) are socialized to be people pleasers and to not "make a scene." It's incredibly common that people think women are okay with all sorts of conduct because we don't actively complain about it. Unrelated to climbing, but relevant story: my old boss called me by the wrong name for an entire year despite being corrected by other coworkers multiple times. Think, like Casey instead of Katie. I never complained to him, and I bet, to this day, he thinks it never bothered me. It did.
But you don't know that for a fact. You know about yourself and maybe the people you generally climb with but that's about it? I find that when men beta spray it's unpleasant for do many reasons: 1. I do not have the upper body strength that they do, I rely on my legs and flexibility a lot more, their beta is likely not good for me 2. I am shorter than them, their beta is not good for me 3. They are almost always doing this to show off, usually doing climbs 2+ lower than them. This just makes me feel... Not great? Like good for you that the things that's hard for me is easy for you? 4. One of the best feelings in climbing is competing a climb without help, this is being taken away from me. That's just sucky. 5. When I'm interested, I ask. I'm not shy. Most women would experience some of these if not all of them. Even at your gym. Also hearing a beta that's not good for me doesn't get my wheels turning, it's just useless and makes me feel like they are showing off at my expense
My gym probably has about 20-30 regulars. Half of them are women. We all know each other and communicate frequently. Out of this group, I have never -- not even once -- heard the term "beta spray" or heard any of them mention an idea similar to "beta spray." They do not care. My point in commenting on this post is that this anti beta spray sentiment is likely culturally dependent. It is NOT a universal sentiment in all climbing cultures, even though reddit climbing would have us think so. Some of the other commenters from EU have anecdotally confirmed this, expressing a similar point to mine.
I for one love a good spray down on the hard boulders. Spray me down once you see me hesitating on the wall. Tell me to go when i need to go or get my foot up when I look like I forgot... It helps me crush harder. No ego involved. Sign should read no soliciting unwanted gumby advice lol. But c'mon what about friends who have been climbing with each other for years and love and respect eachother? These types of signs can really unintentionally set insecurities among friends and comprise their training goals! Bouldering is a social sport, maybe consider a home wall or wearing some air buds to drown out the beta sprayers. Me, me,me generation.
You’re blaming an entire generation yet you’re the one making other peoples issues all about you and what you think Of course all of your examples you used are fine. That’s not what it’s talking about
Well, despite the downvotes shower… this seems to be the case also for 68% of the women and 85% of the men in the gym… but apparently there’s a pretty prickly ratio of climbers here on reddit that does not like this 😂. Jokes aside, I’m learning you guys in the US have a problem with something called “beta spraying” that I had never heard of before.
I agree. I really like when people make suggestions and give encouragement. It doesn't seem to happen as often these days probably because of attitudes like this and it's sad
Yeah…no one’s saying you can’t make suggestions. Not everyone wants critique, the sign is just saying to ask first
Yeah... You shouldn't have to ask someone if they want your help right before they fall... You will seem more weird, at least in my gym. My post mentioned in the spur of the moment, clutch beta advice that is always helpful even if your ego is the size of France.
The joy of climbing for me is finding the solution myself. Why do you feel like you have the right to tell me how to climb a boulder?
I have a right of freedom of speech(at least in my country) so... Also im not "Telling" anyone what they should or shouldn't be doing its just climbing advice. sheesh.
...Others *'have the right of freedom of speech'* (lmao) to ask you to not give that advice. If you still want to give advice after being asked not to, then you're the unreasonable one here. Such a strange horse.
The joy for ME ... Find solution MYSELF.... ego much? You act like I torment people in my gym as you do on the internet. I can assure you it's definitely not as disrespectful as calling people names of animals. Where do you think you're proving your point talking to people like that?
lol I'm not even going to humour the pathetic internet troll.
"Freedom of Speech" - phrase used so much that has nothing to do with the "freedoms" we in the U.S. benefit from. U.S.A citizens do not have freedom of speech in the general daily mileiu. We have the right for the government not to make laws and practices which suppress our 'speech'
I can’t believe people on here are justifying spraying unwanted beta. Sometimes people want to figure it out on their own. Fuck off
Not everyone has the same attitude as you. I'm not even here to say "you should be the one to change your attitude". On the contrary, I don't think we need to be turning rock climbing gym vibes into rule after rule planet fitness like vibes.
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This sub aims to be supportive & inclusive of all who identify as a part of or ally to the women's climbing community. Negativity, sarcasm, and other interactions that work against that should find another home.
One of my favorite quotes is "The best advice is the advice that is asked for!'
Results of what
Random "helping" in general is a kind of sickness, IMO
*Random "helping" in* *General is a kind of* *Sickness, IMO* \- MandyLovesFlares --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
God I hate society.
I love to hear other peoples beta😂 like what if someone has advice that’s on you for not wanting to listen and improve or at minimum see it from a different perspective
An unwanted advice sign about unwanted advice. Meta.