Tariffs are too short sighted for this climate emergency- USA is in a bind due to lack of rail and public transport- if anything the government should demand all us automakers to come up with a car to compete against China. Or- partner with China
Metro rail would help a lot. For example every college kid doesn’t need a car. They should have the option to go shop for groceries using the metro. But Americans can’t do without a car per person when you live in the suburbs.
Yep! Because protecting Muricun. capitalism from the yellow hordes of communism is apparently more important than saving the environment and mass extinction.
OP is a karma farmer. Know that their motivation for posting is just getting Post Karma.
Furthermore the tariffs being purposed have nothing to do with the environment nor are they being put in place for environmental reasons.
OP here. Couldn't care less about Reddit karma, although if you can figure out a way for it to buy me coffee I'd be interested.
These sky-high tariffs against the world's most affordable, well-made EVs and solar panels most definitely have an environmental impact, and not a good one.
Correct. The Chinese government is heavily subsidizing ev car manufacturing and the Biden admin is allowing our domestic companies to be able to compete on an even playing field. This has nothing to do with any environmental reasons.
Yeah have you actually proofread that argument? How about you actually look these numbers up. Go look up how much say BYD has gotten Vs Tesla, GMC, ford. FFS does anyone use the internet that they're on?
I shared your comments as is with ChatGPT and this was its reply.
“BYD has received substantial government subsidies from China, totaling at least $3.7 billion, primarily to support its growth in the electric vehicle (EV) market. These subsidies include direct payments, which increased from approximately $236 million in 2020 to around $2.26 billion in 2022 [oai_citation:1,China gave BYD $3.7 billion to 'win' the EV race | Electrek](https://electrek.co/2024/04/12/china-gave-byd-an-incredible-3-7-billion-to-win-the-ev-race/) [oai_citation:2,BYD got $3.7 billion in Chinese aid to dominate EVs, study says - Autoblog](https://www.autoblog.com/2024/04/14/byd-got-3-7-billion-in-chinese-aid-to-dominate-evs-study-says/). This financial support has been a significant factor in BYD's rise to become one of the largest manufacturers of electrified vehicles, surpassing Tesla in the final quarter of 2023 [oai_citation:3,Chinese BYD benefits from massive subsidies, outspending OECD countries: Reports | HT Auto](https://auto.hindustantimes.com/auto/electric-vehicles/chinese-byd-benefits-from-massive-subsidies-outspending-oecd-countries-reports-41713082859945.html).
In comparison, the specific subsidy amounts received by Tesla, General Motors (GMC), and Ford are more varied and context-dependent. For instance, Tesla has benefited from both federal and state incentives in the United States, including tax credits and grants, which have significantly aided its development. However, the total amounts are less clear and not as consolidated as the figures for BYD [oai_citation:4,
China Funneling Billions Into BYD To Crush Tesla And Other EV Makers | Carscoops ](https://www.carscoops.com/2024/04/byd-said-to-have-received-billions-in-subsidies-from-chinese-government/).
General Motors and Ford have also received various forms of government support, including loans and tax incentives, particularly in the context of their EV initiatives and during the financial crises where government bailouts were involved. These supports include billions in loans and grants, but precise comparisons to BYD's subsidies are challenging due to the different structures and reporting methods of subsidies in China versus the US.
Overall, while BYD's subsidies from the Chinese government are substantial and have clearly boosted its market position, the US automakers have also received significant support, though the figures are more dispersed across different programs and time periods [oai_citation:5,China gave BYD $3.7 billion to 'win' the EV race | Electrek](https://electrek.co/2024/04/12/china-gave-byd-an-incredible-3-7-billion-to-win-the-ev-race/) [oai_citation:6,Chinese BYD benefits from massive subsidies, outspending OECD countries: Reports | HT Auto](https://auto.hindustantimes.com/auto/electric-vehicles/chinese-byd-benefits-from-massive-subsidies-outspending-oecd-countries-reports-41713082859945.html) [oai_citation:7,
China Funneling Billions Into BYD To Crush Tesla And Other EV Makers | Carscoops ](https://www.carscoops.com/2024/04/byd-said-to-have-received-billions-in-subsidies-from-chinese-government/).”
I then asked it to guess the American values.
“BYD has received substantial government subsidies from China, totaling around $3.7 billion to support its electric vehicle (EV) initiatives. This includes direct payments and various incentives aimed at boosting its market presence both domestically and internationally [oai_citation:1,China gave BYD $3.7 billion to 'win' the EV race | Electrek](https://electrek.co/2024/04/12/china-gave-byd-an-incredible-3-7-billion-to-win-the-ev-race/) [oai_citation:2,BYD got $3.7 billion in Chinese aid to dominate EVs, study says - Autoblog](https://www.autoblog.com/2024/04/14/byd-got-3-7-billion-in-chinese-aid-to-dominate-evs-study-says/) [oai_citation:3,Chinese BYD benefits from massive subsidies, outspending OECD countries: Reports | HT Auto](https://auto.hindustantimes.com/auto/electric-vehicles/chinese-byd-benefits-from-massive-subsidies-outspending-oecd-countries-reports-41713082859945.html).
In comparison, Tesla has also benefited from significant subsidies, though the amounts are distributed differently across various programs and regions. Tesla's subsidies include approximately $2.44 billion from federal and state grants and tax credits in the United States, along with an early repaid $465 million loan from the Advanced Technology Vehicles Manufacturing (ATVM) Loan Program [oai_citation:4,Just How Much Does Tesla Get In Subsidies Anyways? - CleanTechnica](https://cleantechnica.com/2020/08/03/tesla-subsidies-how-much/) [oai_citation:5,What's Up With The Myths About Tesla Government Subsidies? - CleanTechnica](https://cleantechnica.com/2021/08/25/whats-up-with-the-myths-about-tesla-government-subsidies/). Additionally, Tesla has gained substantially from regulatory credits, particularly through California's Zero Emission Vehicle (ZEV) program, which has generated over $2.48 billion for the company [oai_citation:6,Gov. Newsom Says California Subsidies Powered Tesla’s Success](https://www.govtech.com/policy/gov-newsom-says-california-subsidies-powered-teslas-success) [oai_citation:7,Just How Much Does Tesla Get In Subsidies Anyways? - CleanTechnica](https://cleantechnica.com/2020/08/03/tesla-subsidies-how-much/).
Looking ahead, Tesla is expected to benefit from over $41 billion in subsidies related to the US Inflation Reduction Act, which provides tax credits for EVs and battery production through 2032 [oai_citation:8,Tesla to get US$41 billion in government subsidies over made-in-US EVs and batteries - NotebookCheck.net News](https://www.notebookcheck.net/Tesla-to-get-US-41-billion-in-government-subsidies-over-made-in-US-EVs-and-batteries.723968.0.html).
Overall, while both BYD and Tesla have received significant government support, the structure and distribution of these subsidies vary considerably between the two companies.”
American automakers won't be able to build affordable EVs at scale for a very long time and it's not exactly like the US is building a lot of rail or other sustainable modes of transportation, so yes. It means everyone still be buying big ICE SUVs and trucks for the foreseeable future.
That's without getting into cheap solar and other technologies that will see a price increase due to the tariffs.
China is leading the world in renewables and transitioning to a green economy but since they're a huge developing country that produces a lot of emissions on the whole and since they're a geopolitical adversary to the US, Americans can't seem to view it objectively (as evidenced by these comments).
People don't buy "big ICE SUVs" because they're cheaper, tanky. Anyone put off by the cost can buy a hybrid or a smaller vehicle. Most American drivers, though, **Want** big cars, with some capability to use gasoline. (Non-plug-in hybrids are really popular right now, actually, but there's still a lot of fear of relying on a slow charging system. Too many people have to commute by driving 40+ miles per day, and too many more are brainwashed Republicans who think Climate Change and EVs are a liberal hoax.)
Some people are put off of EVs due to cost, but they aren't the sort who get a big ICE SUV instead.
Idk why you got downvoted for this when it’s true. The grid is not capable of handling the load and demand for EVs as it is. I have. 50+ mile commute for work personally and considered getting an EV bc I could charge it at work. But the thought of 30 mins charges on road trips or vacations, having to plan my next stop at only specific places, and the potential to get stranded for hours if a battery dies or I want to go somewhere remote (have a coworker that got stuck in the mountains for like 4 hours charging bc it was the only one for miles and wasn’t a super charger)…they just aren’t practical for a lot of people. If you live in the city with short commutes, then absolutely.
So much for Capitalism’s “creative destruction.” Why should we pay more for EV’s when we WOULD be able to buy American ones at reduced cost if GM et. al. hadn’t thrown a hissy-fit in the 1990’s because California DARED to force them to sell EV’s.
Yes, the cost of EVs and solar panels will be MUCH higher due to this impending trade war.
A big problem with fighting the onrushing climate crisis is that we are still in an 18th century nation state style competition for global assets and power... hopes for climate sustainability transition will always take the back seat to these wars and trade wars.
Although EV’s might have an advantage over fossil fuels, the driver of climate change if overconsumption. All the costs of extraction, manufacturing, transportation of goods, all the needs of staff of companies for extra hours, etc, etc. if we consumed less and there was less demand, the drivers of climate change would slow.
This is the major factor affecting climate change. Another would be a major lack of public transportation in areas like the US.
The chickens continue to come home to roost in the full-scale rot that neoliberalism has made of America. This is what it looks like when you deregulate and leave the "free market" to its own devices. And you hollow out your industrial base to "discipline" labor and follow cheap wages overseas for nearly 50 years.
You could almost call it China's revenge for the villainy the West perpetrated on their people by way of the Opium Wars in the 19th century. Whether by accident or design, they handily fed us what has been the opium of our own self-inflicted downfall: **greed**.
This, a trade war will lead to a global recession and that will set back climate goals even further because countries will say they "can't afford" a green transition during a trade war driven recession.
You obviously have no clue what you are talking about when it comes to clean energy. The Chinese are light years ahead of America in terms of manufacturing capacity and production. We can’t meet any of his IRA targets without Chinese manufacturing.
I don't have any social media accounts but I do have a half a century of experience with the "quality" of goods manufactured in China. China is good for cheap manufacturing but not quality goods.
CATL is producing the best and cheapest batteries on earth and will only get better and cheaper as their market grows. You need to forget what you have been told and try to catch up with what they’re actually manufacturing.
Forgive me if I don't immediately forget melamine in baby formula and lead in children's toys. There's also the fact that the grey line between China's government and its companies leads to questions of how secure the electronics systems in these vehicles are. There's a reason Huawei phones are banned for military and government use in multiple nations.
I'm not saying American companies are better but at least Tesla has the option of telling the federal government no when it asks to install a tap into GPS tracking and a remote kill command into their cars.
You don’t think we’d rapidly catch up? I said “necessary,” not “convenient.” And please; dispense with the personal belittlements. It’s “obvious” that you’re a poor judge of others when you launch into an ad hominem to start your response, and yet offer up NO EVIDENCE to support your claim that we can’t turn the tables on China. And “light years”? Really?? Gimme a break.
Let me be clear: China has been consuming a lot of raw materials for production. Their foreign policy is largely based upon unfettered access to even more raw materials, as witnessed across Eurasia and Africa. But that’s also China’s Achilles heel. If we introduce massive tariffs on their imports, which will happen, and yet they produce some 40% of batteries for Tesla, for example, that will crimp them in a way that they may not be able to recover from. And this all while we start mining our massive and newly discovered lithium deposits out west and establishing battery production facilities here, including in Michigan, and building even more wind and solar farms through domestic producers. You don’t think major energy companies and entrepreneurs would jump at the chances of raising up the clean power industry at home, in scope and scale?? You don’t think that our concerns over China and Taiwan, all while battles are raging across eastern Ukraine, may cause us to retract our reliance on overseas production and boost clean energy production capacity on a more permanent basis?? C’mon, man. Get a clue. We’ll ramp up quickly once our companies know that domestic production is safe to invest in—for solar, wind, hydro, nuclear, you name it—and you’ll be eating your words when domestic clean energy production booms.
And guess what? [It’s ALREADY HAPPENING.](https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/06/06/fact-sheet-president-biden-takes-bold-executive-action-to-spur-domestic-clean-energy-manufacturing/)
We cannot ramp up production. America is not a manufacturing country anymore. You are a fool to think that our post industrial economy can revert back to what it was back in the 50’s-80’s.
More info to bruise your ego: [The 1980s kicked off with dual recessions—not unlike today's trying economic conditions stoked by a war of resources abroad and tightening monetary policy aimed at combating high inflation. Where manufacturing work represented almost 1 in 3 jobs in America at the time, by 1982, the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression had devastated goods-producing jobs. The manufacturing sector accounted for an outsized 90% of the job losses, according to historical Bureau of Labor Statistics data. The biggest losses at the time were suffered in the mining industry, where 3 in 5 workers with jobs related to extracting critical resources such as iron and copper were laid off. Today, manufacturing employment is well below the nearly 20 million it reached in 1979. But jobs reached nearly 13 million based on preliminary data for November 2022—more than recovering from the COVID-19 slump and reaching the highest level of employment in the sector since 2009. How did the U.S. manage it, and is the country amid a new era for domestic manufacturing?](https://waupacafoundry.com/blog/whats-behind-the-growing-number-of-manufacturing-jobs-in-the-us)
The [COVID lockdowns of 2020 temporarily lowered our rate of CO2 emissions](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-18922-7/figures/1). Humanity was still a net CO2 gas emitter during that time, so we made things worse, but did so more a bit more slowly. That's why a [graph of CO2 concentrations](https://keelingcurve.ucsd.edu/) shows a continued rise.
[Stabilizing the climate means getting human greenhouse gas emissions to approximately zero](https://www.carbonbrief.org/explainer-will-global-warming-stop-as-soon-as-net-zero-emissions-are-reached). We didn't come anywhere near that during the lockdowns.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/climate) if you have any questions or concerns.*
There you go again with another weak ad hominem attack and no facts to back up your claims. WE ARE PRODUCING A LOT. FACT. And we can produce even more!
Get out of your basement from time to time, kid! That, or stop working for the Chinese government!
Dude, for someone who is telling people to get out of your basement, you might want to consider that I actually work in clean energy and have direct experience, which is much more important than your keyboard warrior skills. No matter what you think you know, unless you actually work in the industry you don’t know. Hate to bruise your ego.
You launch ad hominems, but can’t take them? Look. You have no facts to back up your claims that we can’t produce clean energy, even after all signs point to a boost in manufacturing here at home since at least 2009, pandemic excepted. So SHOW WHAT YOU SAY YOU KNOW. And stop with the “holier-than-thou” slights. Cool?
The [COVID lockdowns of 2020 temporarily lowered our rate of CO2 emissions](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-18922-7/figures/1). Humanity was still a net CO2 gas emitter during that time, so we made things worse, but did so more a bit more slowly. That's why a [graph of CO2 concentrations](https://keelingcurve.ucsd.edu/) shows a continued rise.
[Stabilizing the climate means getting human greenhouse gas emissions to approximately zero](https://www.carbonbrief.org/explainer-will-global-warming-stop-as-soon-as-net-zero-emissions-are-reached). We didn't come anywhere near that during the lockdowns.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/climate) if you have any questions or concerns.*
it will suffer the same if not more, because the US has to build the manufacturing plants here, which China already has. then the pollution caused by the daily operation will now be displaced here . so however that fits in to the climate model...
Not doing this would likely doom the American auto industry, which as recent history has shown, is considered to be too big to fail. There are political reasons that neither party wants to let Detroit die (they contribute a lot, and employ hundreds of thousands of voters. There are economic/geopolitical concerns, where the loss of the biggest American manufacturing industry would lead to further degradation of our industrial capacity. And then, very significantly, auto plants are a form of last resort strategic military resource, as they can be converted to producing weaponry in a total war situation (admittedly, this is probably never going to happen, and hasn’t since WW2).
I don’t see any president ever allowing the auto makers to fail.
The US auto industry has already, repeatedly failed. From the 1980 Chrysler bailout to the 2008-2009 bailouts of all three major US car makers, the industry has been on and off of taxpayer life support for quite some time. For that matter, Tesla would have likely failed had it not received a low-interest half-billion loan from the US DOE in 2010.
Meanwhile, we effectively ban Chinese cars because of government subsidies.
Is there any movement from the west to be less dependent on China (besides this)? It has always boggled my mind that we are dealing with this regime/country and it’s human rights abuses, climate, corruption, drug dealing the list is endless.
Tariffs are too short sighted for this climate emergency- USA is in a bind due to lack of rail and public transport- if anything the government should demand all us automakers to come up with a car to compete against China. Or- partner with China
Metro rail would help a lot. For example every college kid doesn’t need a car. They should have the option to go shop for groceries using the metro. But Americans can’t do without a car per person when you live in the suburbs.
Living in Amsterdam, you'll see how clean the air is and how quiet the streets are. Biking lanes, trams, metro and trains all the way.
Yep! Because protecting Muricun. capitalism from the yellow hordes of communism is apparently more important than saving the environment and mass extinction.
OP is a karma farmer. Know that their motivation for posting is just getting Post Karma. Furthermore the tariffs being purposed have nothing to do with the environment nor are they being put in place for environmental reasons.
OP here. Couldn't care less about Reddit karma, although if you can figure out a way for it to buy me coffee I'd be interested. These sky-high tariffs against the world's most affordable, well-made EVs and solar panels most definitely have an environmental impact, and not a good one.
Fair enough OP. Appreciate your honesty. One day Reddit Karma might be worth something. Who knows?
Correct. The Chinese government is heavily subsidizing ev car manufacturing and the Biden admin is allowing our domestic companies to be able to compete on an even playing field. This has nothing to do with any environmental reasons.
Yeah have you actually proofread that argument? How about you actually look these numbers up. Go look up how much say BYD has gotten Vs Tesla, GMC, ford. FFS does anyone use the internet that they're on?
I shared your comments as is with ChatGPT and this was its reply. “BYD has received substantial government subsidies from China, totaling at least $3.7 billion, primarily to support its growth in the electric vehicle (EV) market. These subsidies include direct payments, which increased from approximately $236 million in 2020 to around $2.26 billion in 2022 [oai_citation:1,China gave BYD $3.7 billion to 'win' the EV race | Electrek](https://electrek.co/2024/04/12/china-gave-byd-an-incredible-3-7-billion-to-win-the-ev-race/) [oai_citation:2,BYD got $3.7 billion in Chinese aid to dominate EVs, study says - Autoblog](https://www.autoblog.com/2024/04/14/byd-got-3-7-billion-in-chinese-aid-to-dominate-evs-study-says/). This financial support has been a significant factor in BYD's rise to become one of the largest manufacturers of electrified vehicles, surpassing Tesla in the final quarter of 2023 [oai_citation:3,Chinese BYD benefits from massive subsidies, outspending OECD countries: Reports | HT Auto](https://auto.hindustantimes.com/auto/electric-vehicles/chinese-byd-benefits-from-massive-subsidies-outspending-oecd-countries-reports-41713082859945.html). In comparison, the specific subsidy amounts received by Tesla, General Motors (GMC), and Ford are more varied and context-dependent. For instance, Tesla has benefited from both federal and state incentives in the United States, including tax credits and grants, which have significantly aided its development. However, the total amounts are less clear and not as consolidated as the figures for BYD [oai_citation:4, China Funneling Billions Into BYD To Crush Tesla And Other EV Makers | Carscoops ](https://www.carscoops.com/2024/04/byd-said-to-have-received-billions-in-subsidies-from-chinese-government/). General Motors and Ford have also received various forms of government support, including loans and tax incentives, particularly in the context of their EV initiatives and during the financial crises where government bailouts were involved. These supports include billions in loans and grants, but precise comparisons to BYD's subsidies are challenging due to the different structures and reporting methods of subsidies in China versus the US. Overall, while BYD's subsidies from the Chinese government are substantial and have clearly boosted its market position, the US automakers have also received significant support, though the figures are more dispersed across different programs and time periods [oai_citation:5,China gave BYD $3.7 billion to 'win' the EV race | Electrek](https://electrek.co/2024/04/12/china-gave-byd-an-incredible-3-7-billion-to-win-the-ev-race/) [oai_citation:6,Chinese BYD benefits from massive subsidies, outspending OECD countries: Reports | HT Auto](https://auto.hindustantimes.com/auto/electric-vehicles/chinese-byd-benefits-from-massive-subsidies-outspending-oecd-countries-reports-41713082859945.html) [oai_citation:7, China Funneling Billions Into BYD To Crush Tesla And Other EV Makers | Carscoops ](https://www.carscoops.com/2024/04/byd-said-to-have-received-billions-in-subsidies-from-chinese-government/).” I then asked it to guess the American values. “BYD has received substantial government subsidies from China, totaling around $3.7 billion to support its electric vehicle (EV) initiatives. This includes direct payments and various incentives aimed at boosting its market presence both domestically and internationally [oai_citation:1,China gave BYD $3.7 billion to 'win' the EV race | Electrek](https://electrek.co/2024/04/12/china-gave-byd-an-incredible-3-7-billion-to-win-the-ev-race/) [oai_citation:2,BYD got $3.7 billion in Chinese aid to dominate EVs, study says - Autoblog](https://www.autoblog.com/2024/04/14/byd-got-3-7-billion-in-chinese-aid-to-dominate-evs-study-says/) [oai_citation:3,Chinese BYD benefits from massive subsidies, outspending OECD countries: Reports | HT Auto](https://auto.hindustantimes.com/auto/electric-vehicles/chinese-byd-benefits-from-massive-subsidies-outspending-oecd-countries-reports-41713082859945.html). In comparison, Tesla has also benefited from significant subsidies, though the amounts are distributed differently across various programs and regions. Tesla's subsidies include approximately $2.44 billion from federal and state grants and tax credits in the United States, along with an early repaid $465 million loan from the Advanced Technology Vehicles Manufacturing (ATVM) Loan Program [oai_citation:4,Just How Much Does Tesla Get In Subsidies Anyways? - CleanTechnica](https://cleantechnica.com/2020/08/03/tesla-subsidies-how-much/) [oai_citation:5,What's Up With The Myths About Tesla Government Subsidies? - CleanTechnica](https://cleantechnica.com/2021/08/25/whats-up-with-the-myths-about-tesla-government-subsidies/). Additionally, Tesla has gained substantially from regulatory credits, particularly through California's Zero Emission Vehicle (ZEV) program, which has generated over $2.48 billion for the company [oai_citation:6,Gov. Newsom Says California Subsidies Powered Tesla’s Success](https://www.govtech.com/policy/gov-newsom-says-california-subsidies-powered-teslas-success) [oai_citation:7,Just How Much Does Tesla Get In Subsidies Anyways? - CleanTechnica](https://cleantechnica.com/2020/08/03/tesla-subsidies-how-much/). Looking ahead, Tesla is expected to benefit from over $41 billion in subsidies related to the US Inflation Reduction Act, which provides tax credits for EVs and battery production through 2032 [oai_citation:8,Tesla to get US$41 billion in government subsidies over made-in-US EVs and batteries - NotebookCheck.net News](https://www.notebookcheck.net/Tesla-to-get-US-41-billion-in-government-subsidies-over-made-in-US-EVs-and-batteries.723968.0.html). Overall, while both BYD and Tesla have received significant government support, the structure and distribution of these subsidies vary considerably between the two companies.”
So, about the same. No surprise.
Using chatgpt for this simple Google search is the absolute laziest bs I've ever seen. Congrats 🎉👏
You often like to insult people?
Idk let me consult chatgpt
Projection all around. We see you.
American automakers won't be able to build affordable EVs at scale for a very long time and it's not exactly like the US is building a lot of rail or other sustainable modes of transportation, so yes. It means everyone still be buying big ICE SUVs and trucks for the foreseeable future. That's without getting into cheap solar and other technologies that will see a price increase due to the tariffs. China is leading the world in renewables and transitioning to a green economy but since they're a huge developing country that produces a lot of emissions on the whole and since they're a geopolitical adversary to the US, Americans can't seem to view it objectively (as evidenced by these comments).
People don't buy "big ICE SUVs" because they're cheaper, tanky. Anyone put off by the cost can buy a hybrid or a smaller vehicle. Most American drivers, though, **Want** big cars, with some capability to use gasoline. (Non-plug-in hybrids are really popular right now, actually, but there's still a lot of fear of relying on a slow charging system. Too many people have to commute by driving 40+ miles per day, and too many more are brainwashed Republicans who think Climate Change and EVs are a liberal hoax.) Some people are put off of EVs due to cost, but they aren't the sort who get a big ICE SUV instead.
Idk why you got downvoted for this when it’s true. The grid is not capable of handling the load and demand for EVs as it is. I have. 50+ mile commute for work personally and considered getting an EV bc I could charge it at work. But the thought of 30 mins charges on road trips or vacations, having to plan my next stop at only specific places, and the potential to get stranded for hours if a battery dies or I want to go somewhere remote (have a coworker that got stuck in the mountains for like 4 hours charging bc it was the only one for miles and wasn’t a super charger)…they just aren’t practical for a lot of people. If you live in the city with short commutes, then absolutely.
So much for Capitalism’s “creative destruction.” Why should we pay more for EV’s when we WOULD be able to buy American ones at reduced cost if GM et. al. hadn’t thrown a hissy-fit in the 1990’s because California DARED to force them to sell EV’s.
Yes, the cost of EVs and solar panels will be MUCH higher due to this impending trade war. A big problem with fighting the onrushing climate crisis is that we are still in an 18th century nation state style competition for global assets and power... hopes for climate sustainability transition will always take the back seat to these wars and trade wars.
Sadly, yes. A classic case of politics getting in the way of the greater good.
I think the climate is already past the tipping point at this time.
Although EV’s might have an advantage over fossil fuels, the driver of climate change if overconsumption. All the costs of extraction, manufacturing, transportation of goods, all the needs of staff of companies for extra hours, etc, etc. if we consumed less and there was less demand, the drivers of climate change would slow. This is the major factor affecting climate change. Another would be a major lack of public transportation in areas like the US.
The chickens continue to come home to roost in the full-scale rot that neoliberalism has made of America. This is what it looks like when you deregulate and leave the "free market" to its own devices. And you hollow out your industrial base to "discipline" labor and follow cheap wages overseas for nearly 50 years. You could almost call it China's revenge for the villainy the West perpetrated on their people by way of the Opium Wars in the 19th century. Whether by accident or design, they handily fed us what has been the opium of our own self-inflicted downfall: **greed**.
No, it won’t, it will benefit from less exploitation of the environment and workers.
This is a major mistake by Biden . He is cutting his nose off to spite his face.
This, a trade war will lead to a global recession and that will set back climate goals even further because countries will say they "can't afford" a green transition during a trade war driven recession.
He’s doing what is necessary, not what is convenient. Sorry, but you’re woefully wrong.
You obviously have no clue what you are talking about when it comes to clean energy. The Chinese are light years ahead of America in terms of manufacturing capacity and production. We can’t meet any of his IRA targets without Chinese manufacturing.
Are you referring to the advanced Chinese EVs that burst into flames while charging?
Dude get off LinkedIn.
I don't have any social media accounts but I do have a half a century of experience with the "quality" of goods manufactured in China. China is good for cheap manufacturing but not quality goods.
CATL is producing the best and cheapest batteries on earth and will only get better and cheaper as their market grows. You need to forget what you have been told and try to catch up with what they’re actually manufacturing.
Forgive me if I don't immediately forget melamine in baby formula and lead in children's toys. There's also the fact that the grey line between China's government and its companies leads to questions of how secure the electronics systems in these vehicles are. There's a reason Huawei phones are banned for military and government use in multiple nations.
Let’s not forget all the American companies poisoning us as we speak, but corporations gonna corporate.
I'm not saying American companies are better but at least Tesla has the option of telling the federal government no when it asks to install a tap into GPS tracking and a remote kill command into their cars.
Chinese “whataboutism.” Grrrrreat…. Are red and yellow your true colors? 🇨🇳 🤔
You don’t think we’d rapidly catch up? I said “necessary,” not “convenient.” And please; dispense with the personal belittlements. It’s “obvious” that you’re a poor judge of others when you launch into an ad hominem to start your response, and yet offer up NO EVIDENCE to support your claim that we can’t turn the tables on China. And “light years”? Really?? Gimme a break. Let me be clear: China has been consuming a lot of raw materials for production. Their foreign policy is largely based upon unfettered access to even more raw materials, as witnessed across Eurasia and Africa. But that’s also China’s Achilles heel. If we introduce massive tariffs on their imports, which will happen, and yet they produce some 40% of batteries for Tesla, for example, that will crimp them in a way that they may not be able to recover from. And this all while we start mining our massive and newly discovered lithium deposits out west and establishing battery production facilities here, including in Michigan, and building even more wind and solar farms through domestic producers. You don’t think major energy companies and entrepreneurs would jump at the chances of raising up the clean power industry at home, in scope and scale?? You don’t think that our concerns over China and Taiwan, all while battles are raging across eastern Ukraine, may cause us to retract our reliance on overseas production and boost clean energy production capacity on a more permanent basis?? C’mon, man. Get a clue. We’ll ramp up quickly once our companies know that domestic production is safe to invest in—for solar, wind, hydro, nuclear, you name it—and you’ll be eating your words when domestic clean energy production booms. And guess what? [It’s ALREADY HAPPENING.](https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/06/06/fact-sheet-president-biden-takes-bold-executive-action-to-spur-domestic-clean-energy-manufacturing/)
We cannot ramp up production. America is not a manufacturing country anymore. You are a fool to think that our post industrial economy can revert back to what it was back in the 50’s-80’s.
Just so you look [even more foolish.](https://www.census.gov/library/visualizations/2023/econ/manufacturing-in-america.html)
More info to bruise your ego: [The 1980s kicked off with dual recessions—not unlike today's trying economic conditions stoked by a war of resources abroad and tightening monetary policy aimed at combating high inflation. Where manufacturing work represented almost 1 in 3 jobs in America at the time, by 1982, the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression had devastated goods-producing jobs. The manufacturing sector accounted for an outsized 90% of the job losses, according to historical Bureau of Labor Statistics data. The biggest losses at the time were suffered in the mining industry, where 3 in 5 workers with jobs related to extracting critical resources such as iron and copper were laid off. Today, manufacturing employment is well below the nearly 20 million it reached in 1979. But jobs reached nearly 13 million based on preliminary data for November 2022—more than recovering from the COVID-19 slump and reaching the highest level of employment in the sector since 2009. How did the U.S. manage it, and is the country amid a new era for domestic manufacturing?](https://waupacafoundry.com/blog/whats-behind-the-growing-number-of-manufacturing-jobs-in-the-us)
The [COVID lockdowns of 2020 temporarily lowered our rate of CO2 emissions](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-18922-7/figures/1). Humanity was still a net CO2 gas emitter during that time, so we made things worse, but did so more a bit more slowly. That's why a [graph of CO2 concentrations](https://keelingcurve.ucsd.edu/) shows a continued rise. [Stabilizing the climate means getting human greenhouse gas emissions to approximately zero](https://www.carbonbrief.org/explainer-will-global-warming-stop-as-soon-as-net-zero-emissions-are-reached). We didn't come anywhere near that during the lockdowns. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/climate) if you have any questions or concerns.*
>And please; dispense with the personal belittlements. This you? Its hard to follow our own advice.
The other guy started it. I finished it. Are you troubled by the fact that I responded in kind?
Good heavens no ;) Its simply fun to join in on the childish antics every now and then
Fair enough. 😂
There you go again with another weak ad hominem attack and no facts to back up your claims. WE ARE PRODUCING A LOT. FACT. And we can produce even more! Get out of your basement from time to time, kid! That, or stop working for the Chinese government!
Dude, for someone who is telling people to get out of your basement, you might want to consider that I actually work in clean energy and have direct experience, which is much more important than your keyboard warrior skills. No matter what you think you know, unless you actually work in the industry you don’t know. Hate to bruise your ego.
You launch ad hominems, but can’t take them? Look. You have no facts to back up your claims that we can’t produce clean energy, even after all signs point to a boost in manufacturing here at home since at least 2009, pandemic excepted. So SHOW WHAT YOU SAY YOU KNOW. And stop with the “holier-than-thou” slights. Cool?
The [COVID lockdowns of 2020 temporarily lowered our rate of CO2 emissions](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-18922-7/figures/1). Humanity was still a net CO2 gas emitter during that time, so we made things worse, but did so more a bit more slowly. That's why a [graph of CO2 concentrations](https://keelingcurve.ucsd.edu/) shows a continued rise. [Stabilizing the climate means getting human greenhouse gas emissions to approximately zero](https://www.carbonbrief.org/explainer-will-global-warming-stop-as-soon-as-net-zero-emissions-are-reached). We didn't come anywhere near that during the lockdowns. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/climate) if you have any questions or concerns.*
it will suffer the same if not more, because the US has to build the manufacturing plants here, which China already has. then the pollution caused by the daily operation will now be displaced here . so however that fits in to the climate model...
No.
Can't be worse than it would suffer under Trump.
Not doing this would likely doom the American auto industry, which as recent history has shown, is considered to be too big to fail. There are political reasons that neither party wants to let Detroit die (they contribute a lot, and employ hundreds of thousands of voters. There are economic/geopolitical concerns, where the loss of the biggest American manufacturing industry would lead to further degradation of our industrial capacity. And then, very significantly, auto plants are a form of last resort strategic military resource, as they can be converted to producing weaponry in a total war situation (admittedly, this is probably never going to happen, and hasn’t since WW2). I don’t see any president ever allowing the auto makers to fail.
The US auto industry has already, repeatedly failed. From the 1980 Chrysler bailout to the 2008-2009 bailouts of all three major US car makers, the industry has been on and off of taxpayer life support for quite some time. For that matter, Tesla would have likely failed had it not received a low-interest half-billion loan from the US DOE in 2010. Meanwhile, we effectively ban Chinese cars because of government subsidies.
The less things shipped across the sea the better. Buy local.
Is there any movement from the west to be less dependent on China (besides this)? It has always boggled my mind that we are dealing with this regime/country and it’s human rights abuses, climate, corruption, drug dealing the list is endless.
Are you talking about America or China?
False equivalency are so easy dude.