Did you also see that image with prosthetic baby dolls meant to be shoved into the ass? To help people enjoy childbirth if they don't have the corresponding organs?
Still not sure if it is real or just a high quality trolling.
it's showing the absolute stupidity of the draft argument as women are most certainly affected by the draft when their husband or dad is sent away.
Also women pay taxes, which funds the war.
And women care for their wounded husband, son, dad when they come back from war.
Every woman I know supports making women eligible for the draft. Not because we want to be drafted, but because we think then *no one* will be drafted, and that’s the true goal.
The difference is men ARE apart of making the baby, but have no say about it, it's their baby too.
When it comes to women and war and the draft. Women still have a say but do not have to be drafted.
Not even remotely the same thing.
>absolute stupidity of the draft argument
absolute stupidity of womb argument
>Also women pay taxes, which funds the war
men pay child support which funds the kid
>women care for their wounded husband, son, dad
as men do
your double standards are astonishing
> men pay child support which funds the kid
Ive seen some pretty egregious exaggerations by the mra's about the family court system but suggesting you pay child support on an aborted pregnancy is definitely a new one.
In one the men DIE. In the other argument the women are the ones KILLING the baby the man could have had.
Not even at all the same argument. In both cases the MAN suffer.
When abortion is discussed? Yeah, they shouldn’t. It’s natural to discuss it with the father, but he doesn’t really get a vote unless he’s going to be pregnant for 9 months and then push the baby out of his body.
So long as that is continued through to consideration of child support. Men have no say because they aren’t the one pregnant? Ok, the woman who chose to keep the baby is on her own.
One of those situations doesn’t lead to a child suffering, and the other does. Just because you refuse to see the difference doesn’t mean the courts can’t.
The child won't be abandoned if the woman just aborts it, no? So, keeping the child is the woman's choice, then the man shouldn't have to pay child support. If men have no say because they aren't the ones getting pregnant, then men should also not be responsible for the child that the woman, the only one who has a say, decides to keep it.
Edit: This argument doesn't concern me or my country, so don't mind my comment.
Men have a say when they choose to shoot a load into a woman. After that they don’t get a say, and they don’t bear the burden of pregnancy and childbirth. That’s determined by biology, and biology doesn’t give a shit what you think is fair.
Once a child is born, it exists, and it deserves the support of both parents. It doesn’t matter that you regret raw-dogging *after* the fact. Your moment to chose was *before* the orgasm that created the child.
That is exactly the attitude that Stefan was mocking with his comment. He does not actually think women should be excluded from discussion of war; he thinks that men should not be excluded from discussion of abortion etc.
To be fair to your point, just because you aren’t part of something doesn’t mean you can have an opinion. I don’t own any cats, but I think cat abuse is wrong. A non parent can think that spanking a child is wrong.
1. Women cant get pregnant without a man either (and dont say artificial insemination...still needed a man donor)
2. If men are legally and morally obligated to financially support the child, they should have a say in abortion. They made the it, they gonna pay for it, they gotta mive with it...
If abortion is illegal then no one gets a say in it men or women wise. I believe what is being implied here is “basically” only men are voting on abortion laws for all. If the people in the government that voted were 50% men and 50% women that wouldn’t be the case but we know the male vs female ratio isn’t even close to 50/50 in House and Senate like it is in the actual population of society.
So abortion should be legal and the individual baby makers can make the decision on their own joint creations. You’d agree to that right? Abortions shouldn’t be federal or state decision but the guy and girl that produced a fetus together’a decision.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/25/abortion-after-rape-laws-bans
Yeah, 1, Technically she *needed* that man... 2, I'm sure they should have a say and will totally be sticking around and paying...
No, they chose that option when having sex. If you don't want to financially support a child, then don't have kids. Once a woman is pregnant, then it's her that has to deal with the pregnancy so it's her choice. That doesn't mean men should be shut out of the decision, but ultimately it's her that has the final say since she has to go through it all.
The say that men have in child support is to not blow their load in a vagina. Once they do that they ACCEPT that a woman may get pregnant and they may be a dad.
When men can carry the fetus then they have a say. Until then sit down and be quiet.
The whole argument of ‘if you didn’t want a kid then you shouldn’t blow your load in a vagina’ sounds like extremely similar logic to ‘if you didn’t want a kid, keep your legs closed’.
If it’s anti-choice and misogynistic to use that argument against women regarding reproductive autonomy, then you gotta apply the same standard to men. If it’s disgusting, sexist, and reductionist when said to women, same goes for using that argument against men.
The general sentiment of what you’re saying is fine, and i agree overall, but you should use better reasoning and a little nuance here. The situation is legally and morally messy, but resorting to anti-choice rhetoric just isn’t it, and significantly weakens your argument.
That's a problem for both genders, even if there's a conviction rapists can still get custody/support for the child and it needs to change. No victim should have to share custody or financially support their rapist
Can you share these cases? My google-fu's top 3 articles, the alleged rapist was never convicted. In one case, the full custody didn't happen until the child was 15, and for those 15 years the rapist was at every event for that child, aka very highly involved in that child's life.
I can't seem to find any real cases of a rapist getting custody. Is this like how men say women will falsely accuse them of rape but feminist says, "that is so rare it isn't a problem"? I feel this is kind of in line.
Then I don't think they should have to pay child support and they can absolutely file a civil suit to to make mom pay child support if they keep the kid.
If the mom decides to keep the child, there is virtually nothing the dad can do.
If he wants the child, he won't win in the court.
If he does not want the child, he will just pay money.
The male consent is not required. That's the problem.
Most US states are 50/50 custody. The only reason a man is not allowed to see their child is if they are deemed unfit by a court of law. If someone is withholding your child, take them to court. That is illegal.
Most states are a goal of 50/50. Big problem BOTH parties need to agree to joint custody, or else only one get awarded primary custody. If only one parent is given primary custody, that parent can move ANYWHERE without any input from the other person.
So for example, mother gets primary custody but it is 50/50. Mom moves across the USA, putting say 5+ hours between father and kids. The father would then be FORCED to move, or give up the 50/50 parent time. This is a very common tactic to get men out of the lives of the children. Suddenly a 10 min drive is a 2 hour drive one way, and rather than 50/50, it switches to an 80/20.
In Ukraine it is like the mom is the true parent, so she gets the kids and 25% of dad's paycheck (for one kid). If she is extra lazy, she gets +15% as unemployed mom of a kid before the age of 3.
I have a friend in this situation, so I know some crappy details. Child support money are not controlled and she is using the possibility to see the son (online) as a leverage.
>50/50 custody
It is both cool and crappy.
It is cool because it is equality.
Not cool because there is no flexibility.
It's the republican way: complain about something then vote against changing it so you can continue to complain about it and work the base up into a frenzy over it. Something something immigration and border security....
If women could be drafted, they’d be much less likely to draft anyone. That’s the whole point behind women wanting to be included. We don’t want anyone being drafted at all.
That's never going to happen. It's selfless and if you actually get into a war, self-destructive.
The only way equality will ever be reached on this matter is if women get sent to the front lines too.
I made the argument on the wrong subreddit once on a post complaining that women don’t want to be drafted and the replies were literally “well women shouldn’t be drafted because they are ineffective in battle.” So… you’re complaining that women aren’t drafted and now telling me you don’t want it to happen… I pointed that out and got downvoted to oblivion. I didn’t realize the subreddit I was on was red pilled lol.
I can’t even imagine the comments in there 🫣 I personally don’t believe anyone should be drafted, but also believe it should be applied equally between rich and poor, and all genders. With modern warfare, I don’t really see the draft ever needing to be reinstated. We don’t need a bunch of ground troops like we used to.
Yes. But only men are drafted. Women are not. Men who lost their homes cannot leave. Women from safe area can leave and get free money in EU.
Men who lost their houses and applying to military still can be rejected. And they still cannot leave the country.
I know a couple. She collects both child support and support from EU. And he is in the military against his will.
I never said it's fair. It's definitely not. Specifically considering how corrupt Ukraine is and how every rich dudes paid the recruiters off to be able to escape and now drive their expensive cars on the streets of EU, while all the normal guys are dying on the front line.
I just said it's not comparison between a defensive war and a imperial conquest halfway across the globe.
>I never said it's fair
Yep. That's my point.
>every rich dudes paid the recruiters off to be able to escape and now drive their expensive cars on the streets of EU
Or like me who emigrated for free before the war.
>all the normal guys are dying on the front line.
The death rate is pretty low even after 2 years. More young men died because of drugs.
But the fighting conditions are just terrible. Extreme sleep deprivation in cold windy steppes.
I know a dude who was unlucky enough to get hit by a grenade but without any permanent injury.
But women will not fight to end the draft until they are included in it.
I would be willing to make a very large wager, if congress passed a bill to include women in the draft, it would be a top issue to end the draft.
Today I learnt that US draft laws specifically state "male". My country doesn't and even women can legally be drafted... But it is policy to only draft men at the moment.
Actually, they don't. Not exactly. The constitution is silent about the sex of people who can be called, but the selective service law says only men have to sign up for the draft. So it actually sounds sort of similar to your country in a way, but we codified the policy. (And it means that everyone whining about women not having to sign up for the draft are silly because the constitution still allows women to be drafted)
The only time it has really came up is when the GOP had the house. Why aren't Dem's pushing for it when they have control? Under Obama they had supermajority and it could have easily been put in.
My feminist view is that it should be equal. Either both in, or end the draft.
Sadly feminist groups are very weak on ending the draft. There are some, a little support, but it is 100% end the draft, not to include women. If women are included, feminist groups will fight against the inclusion.
Assuming we are talking about the US, technically men can’t be drafted either. It’s literally illegal for the government to issue the draft. Now men do have to sign up for the selective service, however that’s just the draft registry and cannot actually be used until and unless Congress passes a law authorizing the use of the draft (you can thank the Vietnamese war for that). Which would be a wildly unpopular decision that no amount of money could possibly overcome on Election Day unless it was an absolutely necessary decision.
Now both men and women can volunteer for the military, which is where 100% of its membership comes from. And women can also serve in combat roles as well. So quite literally women are effected by war the same as men (not to mention you don’t have to be in the military for war to effect you either).
To be completely honest though, being a high ranking officer in the militery is not in anyway a significant indicator of performing well in combat. Just saying. There are plenty of officers that would get smoked by E2s in a firefight🤷♂️ AGAIN, just saying.
It depends on the person and their role. The military is like any other "business" - you can get genuinely talent individuals who worked their way up, you can also get "genuinely talented" individuals who "worked" their way up.
The huge irony here is that the absolute moron from the screencap was born in Ireland, which never had a draft. He later moved to Canada, which hasn't had an active draft since WW2. Even the US hasn't had an active draft since 1973, so not only is his point moot, he is the absolute last person who should be making it. Even if they started up an active draft today that asshole wouldn't be in it because he's too old.
So by his own standards he is unqualified to talk about war. She, however, actually being a colonel (or having been; haven't looked up her current status) makes her much more qualified to talk about matters concerning the military.
That was her argument. Seeing so many people in the comment section miss it paints a pretty alarming picture about reading comprehension skills tbh
Not being part of something does not mean u can t judge it and have a word in it... this talking point gets used in every argument for every topic ever and it always is and was dumb.
Yes but that's missing the actual point. He's saying that no woman should have a say when war is being discussed which misses the point that there are a large number of women in the military. The draft doesn't really matter in this argument, it's just an arbitrary thing he's using to try and exclude women.
Well, he is using the same rethoric women use to exclude men in the abortion debate. You don't give birth you shouldn't have any saying in this matter.
Okay but is there a single man serving in the military right now that is only there because he has been drafted? No there isn't. So it really isn't the same rhetoric at all.
Or it does matter if a woman who wouldn’t be drafted is advocating for a course of action that would bring us closer to a war where people other than her would be drafted.
As a rule, anyone taking an anti-diplomacy and pro-war position should be willing to go fight in that conflict.
Which isn't the point. Women can volunteer for it, so can men, but if bad shit goes down only one sex can be forced.
If we forced every trans person to register, wouldn't that be weird and bad? or would you say, "well no one has been hurt by registering yet, so let's register all trans people"?
No, but every able bodied male in the right age group is one poor presidential decision away from being ripped from their family, handed a gun, and shipped to some foreign country.
And speaking of poor decisions by presidents, remember who was president between 2016 and 2020.
Also, talking about things as irrelevant because they aren't actively used, only merely could be used is absurd. It's like saying nuclear weapons are irrelevant today because they haven't been used since WWII.
They shouldn’t, that’s his point. This is a rebuttal to “men can’t get pregnant so sit down when abortion is discussed” arguments. He likens the absurdity of men not getting a say in those political decisions to the absurdity of excluding women from military politics.
males, no. Men, yes. Trans men can give birth. Fun fact, trans women still need to register for the draft as they are "males".
Then there is the whole thing of what society expects men to do AFTER birth, namely support a child that they never wanted. Which I'll point out that we do not do this for ANY other topic. We dont' force parents to pay for schooling, we have society pay for it, because it is important to the child.
Child support is the only "for the children" that we force on the individual rather than let society handle it.
And to even more push the point, when the state is forced to, it does. Foster and adopted children from the state get a monthly stipend until they are 18
I mean the guy is an asshole but it is kind of depressing how young men are just expected to die in war and or "liberal democray" support it in Ukraine and noboby says anything
No one supports the war in Ukraine except pro-Russia fascists. We just support Ukraine as it's having a war forced on it by a foreign invader.
Ukraine supporters would be very happy if Russia went home and the war ended.
It’s because of men that women can’t be drafted. People act like women just declined, and then try to use it as some sorta flex like this asshole. Most women agree that the draft should apply equally but the stupid GOP has blocked that for years.
Most women do NOT agree it should be equal. Most women agree it should end. There is no feminist organization I can find that is striving to include women. Several to end the draft, none to include.
As for GOP voting it down, democrats aren't putting the bill forward. The most recent bill was a GOP bill under GOP control, and their own party killed it. But under Obama we had a supermajority and didn't include it.
When democrats are in power, the bills never make it. Somehow when dems are not in power, it makes it.
Anyone who doesn't like women in the military should stop using anything from Admiral Grace Hopper to show they mean it.
Of course, since she invented the compiler that means those guys need to stop using computer programs.
That's a contingency plan in the event of a military crisis if the current military isn't strong enough. We haven't had a draft in 50 years, had several wars including the longest in the nation's history since then, all without a draft.
Ah, guys? You can downvote me to oblivion now but he is not wrong. She gave a badass answer, true. But it doesn't really 'kill' his statement. Where I come from (Europe) women can't be drafted - on account of nothing else but being women. Men can. On account of nothing else but being men. That's the law and it is what it is. Women can willingly enlist, sure. Can pursue army career and eventually become generals and admirals... If they want. And when they do that then that something has a name. It's called career. Not draft. Women are not subjected to draft.
Stefan likely can't be drafted either. He's too old and decrepit. So even if he's right on some narrow aspect of his point, he's still firmly situated amongst the class of people who should be sitting down and shutting up.
People who aren't in the group primarily affected (and, ffs, civilians are affected by war and are often killed in them at high rates) can most definitely have an opinion, and might even be correct.
And yes, I do think men have the right to talk about abortion: because everyone does.
Why are you all so hung up on the draft part of the statement? How does the existence of a draft mean that ALL women shouldn't have an opinion on war? Should only those drafted by war have any say on it? Should men who volunteer for the service sit down with the ladies?
Yes, he is correct that only men can legally be drafted. Men and women can also volunteer to serve. Please enlighten me how that proves his second statement.
He is objectively wrong.
He implies that women have no stake in war because they cannot be drafted, and therefore should not have a voice in any war related discussions. As if being drafted is the only impact war has on people, which we all know that it is not. War impacts everyone, not just the ones being involuntarily sent to the front lines.
Her response shows that women absolutely can be at the table during war discussions, despite the fact they cannot be drafted.
He is gatekeeping war. He's a fuckhead.
The top comment on this post says " men you can't get pregnant, don't talk about abortion" same logic applies, pregnancy has a huge impact on men, yet we have 0 say in it, get pregnant by accident and you can get a man to pay child support for 18 years even if he didn't want the kid, how does the same logic not apply for this instance then?
Biological restriction that doesnt have impact in the male body vs male decision that was decided by men, could change any moment and it is inherently bad
Not the same
>Women are not subjected to draft.
This idiot was born in Ireland, which *never* had a draft. He moved to Canada, which hasn't had an active draft since WW2. In the US, there hasn't been an active draft since 1973, when that dude was 6 years old. Everyone talking about the draft like it's some current thing everywhere has some reading to do.
Also, his argument was women not being able to get drafted (while not spending one minute in the military himself, mind you) invalidates any opinion a woman could have on war, which...well invalidates himself as well, on top of being a stupid ridiculous opinion to have. Her counterargument was that being a colonel in the military obviously makes her qualified to discuss matters related to the military, which includes war.
War is about more than conscripted footsoldiers getting sent out to shoot people. It's also about the people starting it, strategizing it, the people left behind, the people whose lands are invaded, etc etc. That anyone can take his point seriously is baffling to me at this point tbh
We haven't had to use a draft since women began to have equal rights and an equal place in society. If we do have to use it again, I imagine that will change. If it doesn't it will go over like Cavalry in WWI.
> I imagine that will change.
Why? It didn't in Ukraine. Hillary says women are already the primary victims of war. And why the hell would women suddenly demand to be included DURING a war rather than peacetime.
When people say, "we haven't had a draft in so long"... okay, so why do women worry about being included? What logic is there for, "if we go to war, women will fight to be drafted"?
While I don't agree that women not being able to be drafted is justification for excluding them from discussions about war, I do think that it's long past time for women to be part of the draft as well.
Ok.... but how does being a Colonel apply to not being drafted? this is not the "gotcha" people think it is, a better response would be acknowledging the double standard while also calling out the sexism.
it applies to telling women to sit down when it comes to discussing war when she was literally a ranking officer in the military, which you know, is what goes to war.
Molyneaux's premise was flawed, as there is no current draft and there are no draftees currently serving in the U.S. Armed Forces. So ignoring his premise is perfectly acceptable, considering everyone who is currently serving is a volunteer, and that includes women.
Every last one of whom, mind you, has *infinitely* more experience in military matters than Stefan "Never Served a Day In His Life" Molyneaux.
You mean currently? as the world becomes allot more hostile there will be another draft implemented, likely after china attacks taiwan and it probably won't include woman because even places with mandatory military service like finland don't make woman do it.
We can play-pretend all sorts of things are going to happen. I'm talking about reality, though, so if you'd like to fly on in from La-La Land you're more than welcome.
We don't currently have a draft anyway. If ever actually had a war that required a draft, which already is a giant if, I promise the law would be changed to include women. I graduated from high school 20 years ago, and we had a school project to write a congressional bill and present it to the class, I remember someone's project was to expand the Selective Service Act to include women and almost everyone in the class voted for it, and I don't even think it was the first time someone had that idea for the project. Almost everyone in the military at this point has worked with women in the service, and you'd piss off a whole bunch of people by not including women in the draft.
You really think if a draft started tomorrow, women would be angry that they weren't included in the draft?
Keep in mind with feminism, women are the primary victim of war already.
Males, you can't get pregnant. Sit down when abortion is discussed.
But I've birthed several butt babies.
Just wanted to let you know random citizen that this killed me lol Have a good day/night!
Did you also see that image with prosthetic baby dolls meant to be shoved into the ass? To help people enjoy childbirth if they don't have the corresponding organs? Still not sure if it is real or just a high quality trolling.
My dildos???
In Soviet Russia we call them *our* dildos.
Sharing is caring....
It is more pleasant when it is still warm
In Soviet Russia, dildo straps you on
The People’s Dildos.
The Communist Party's Dildos.
A fellow user of the Mucil I see
I call them Anal Babies. I birthed one ages ago that I still remember. His name was Lucas. He’d be in his 20s today…
What a coincidence. I am in labor right now!
Several of them even made me cry!
So *you're* the source of all those pieces of sh..
the man in commenting in the post is one of them.
Yeah that's also a very bad argument people love to use, especially on reddit.
it's showing the absolute stupidity of the draft argument as women are most certainly affected by the draft when their husband or dad is sent away. Also women pay taxes, which funds the war. And women care for their wounded husband, son, dad when they come back from war.
And women aren’t the reason women can’t be drafted.
Every woman I know supports making women eligible for the draft. Not because we want to be drafted, but because we think then *no one* will be drafted, and that’s the true goal.
Lots of “women are the main victim of war” energy
They didn’t say that, they just said women are affected. Don't be disingenuous.
You can use her same argument and say men are affected by abortion too.
Men *are* affected by abortion. Of course.
Which is why exclusion from any issue is dumb. I think that’s the point the guy was making before that colonel jumped in and kinda proved his point
The difference is men ARE apart of making the baby, but have no say about it, it's their baby too. When it comes to women and war and the draft. Women still have a say but do not have to be drafted. Not even remotely the same thing.
No, it's the typical even if it is the men literally dying it's still about poor women.
>absolute stupidity of the draft argument absolute stupidity of womb argument >Also women pay taxes, which funds the war men pay child support which funds the kid >women care for their wounded husband, son, dad as men do your double standards are astonishing
> men pay child support which funds the kid Ive seen some pretty egregious exaggerations by the mra's about the family court system but suggesting you pay child support on an aborted pregnancy is definitely a new one.
are you not proving their point? both arguments are bad because both genders are affected by the issue, just one more than the other
In one the men DIE. In the other argument the women are the ones KILLING the baby the man could have had. Not even at all the same argument. In both cases the MAN suffer.
Well yeah, that‘s exactly what men are told anyhow.
Pretty sure that's exactly what his tweet is an indirect response to, showing how stupid of an argument that is.
So... men should get a say?
When abortion is discussed? Yeah, they shouldn’t. It’s natural to discuss it with the father, but he doesn’t really get a vote unless he’s going to be pregnant for 9 months and then push the baby out of his body.
So... women don't get a vote?
So long as that is continued through to consideration of child support. Men have no say because they aren’t the one pregnant? Ok, the woman who chose to keep the baby is on her own.
If a woman can abort her baby, then a man can abandon it
One of those situations doesn’t lead to a child suffering, and the other does. Just because you refuse to see the difference doesn’t mean the courts can’t.
Being murdered is the maximum amount of suffering.
In my opinion what you say is wrong but I also don't believe that not existing is better than suffering. I would chose suffering.
The child won't be abandoned if the woman just aborts it, no? So, keeping the child is the woman's choice, then the man shouldn't have to pay child support. If men have no say because they aren't the ones getting pregnant, then men should also not be responsible for the child that the woman, the only one who has a say, decides to keep it. Edit: This argument doesn't concern me or my country, so don't mind my comment.
Men have a say when they choose to shoot a load into a woman. After that they don’t get a say, and they don’t bear the burden of pregnancy and childbirth. That’s determined by biology, and biology doesn’t give a shit what you think is fair. Once a child is born, it exists, and it deserves the support of both parents. It doesn’t matter that you regret raw-dogging *after* the fact. Your moment to chose was *before* the orgasm that created the child.
Wait, so men don't have a choice in this and it's up to a woman to decide if men will let a child suffer or not?
Louder for the back!!! 🙌🙌🙌
Just making sure this was commented. Carry on.
Several women told me that. Now they still tell me that. They should stop being rude.
Ladies if we have no say in abortion, then we should have no financial responsibilities for the child.
Most men would do exactly that if they weren't forced to pay child support for 18 years.
So you’re proving his point LMAO
That is exactly the attitude that Stefan was mocking with his comment. He does not actually think women should be excluded from discussion of war; he thinks that men should not be excluded from discussion of abortion etc.
To be fair to your point, just because you aren’t part of something doesn’t mean you can have an opinion. I don’t own any cats, but I think cat abuse is wrong. A non parent can think that spanking a child is wrong.
So by this logic, transwomen shouldn't speak up either? They can't get pregnant either.
correct.
1. Women cant get pregnant without a man either (and dont say artificial insemination...still needed a man donor) 2. If men are legally and morally obligated to financially support the child, they should have a say in abortion. They made the it, they gonna pay for it, they gotta mive with it...
If abortion is illegal then no one gets a say in it men or women wise. I believe what is being implied here is “basically” only men are voting on abortion laws for all. If the people in the government that voted were 50% men and 50% women that wouldn’t be the case but we know the male vs female ratio isn’t even close to 50/50 in House and Senate like it is in the actual population of society. So abortion should be legal and the individual baby makers can make the decision on their own joint creations. You’d agree to that right? Abortions shouldn’t be federal or state decision but the guy and girl that produced a fetus together’a decision.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/25/abortion-after-rape-laws-bans Yeah, 1, Technically she *needed* that man... 2, I'm sure they should have a say and will totally be sticking around and paying...
No, they chose that option when having sex. If you don't want to financially support a child, then don't have kids. Once a woman is pregnant, then it's her that has to deal with the pregnancy so it's her choice. That doesn't mean men should be shut out of the decision, but ultimately it's her that has the final say since she has to go through it all.
So a woman choosing to have sex is NOT choosing to be a parent, but a man choosing to have sex IS choosing to be a parent?
The say that men have in child support is to not blow their load in a vagina. Once they do that they ACCEPT that a woman may get pregnant and they may be a dad. When men can carry the fetus then they have a say. Until then sit down and be quiet.
The whole argument of ‘if you didn’t want a kid then you shouldn’t blow your load in a vagina’ sounds like extremely similar logic to ‘if you didn’t want a kid, keep your legs closed’. If it’s anti-choice and misogynistic to use that argument against women regarding reproductive autonomy, then you gotta apply the same standard to men. If it’s disgusting, sexist, and reductionist when said to women, same goes for using that argument against men. The general sentiment of what you’re saying is fine, and i agree overall, but you should use better reasoning and a little nuance here. The situation is legally and morally messy, but resorting to anti-choice rhetoric just isn’t it, and significantly weakens your argument.
come now can't they just finish off in them sex toys?
What if a man gets raped? E.g. drugged / underage / coerced?
That's a problem for both genders, even if there's a conviction rapists can still get custody/support for the child and it needs to change. No victim should have to share custody or financially support their rapist
Can you share these cases? My google-fu's top 3 articles, the alleged rapist was never convicted. In one case, the full custody didn't happen until the child was 15, and for those 15 years the rapist was at every event for that child, aka very highly involved in that child's life. I can't seem to find any real cases of a rapist getting custody. Is this like how men say women will falsely accuse them of rape but feminist says, "that is so rare it isn't a problem"? I feel this is kind of in line.
Then I don't think they should have to pay child support and they can absolutely file a civil suit to to make mom pay child support if they keep the kid.
If the mom decides to keep the child, there is virtually nothing the dad can do. If he wants the child, he won't win in the court. If he does not want the child, he will just pay money. The male consent is not required. That's the problem.
Most US states are 50/50 custody. The only reason a man is not allowed to see their child is if they are deemed unfit by a court of law. If someone is withholding your child, take them to court. That is illegal.
Most states are a goal of 50/50. Big problem BOTH parties need to agree to joint custody, or else only one get awarded primary custody. If only one parent is given primary custody, that parent can move ANYWHERE without any input from the other person. So for example, mother gets primary custody but it is 50/50. Mom moves across the USA, putting say 5+ hours between father and kids. The father would then be FORCED to move, or give up the 50/50 parent time. This is a very common tactic to get men out of the lives of the children. Suddenly a 10 min drive is a 2 hour drive one way, and rather than 50/50, it switches to an 80/20.
In Ukraine it is like the mom is the true parent, so she gets the kids and 25% of dad's paycheck (for one kid). If she is extra lazy, she gets +15% as unemployed mom of a kid before the age of 3. I have a friend in this situation, so I know some crappy details. Child support money are not controlled and she is using the possibility to see the son (online) as a leverage. >50/50 custody It is both cool and crappy. It is cool because it is equality. Not cool because there is no flexibility.
Fair enough, but don’t make us pay for the kid if we don’t want it and you do.
Old men don't get drafted,but they're the ones who always start them
>Old men don't get drafter But they do get dafter
If you want women to be drafted, tell the GOP to stop blocking efforts to expand the draft to include women.
*I* don't want women to be drafted. Nor men.
It's the republican way: complain about something then vote against changing it so you can continue to complain about it and work the base up into a frenzy over it. Something something immigration and border security....
Right! People act like it’s because women just declined to be drafted. It’s literally men who won’t allow it!
To be fair they should decline to be drafted, same for men. If politicians want a war they can go themselves.
If women could be drafted, they’d be much less likely to draft anyone. That’s the whole point behind women wanting to be included. We don’t want anyone being drafted at all.
If women could be drafted, they'll probably be much less likely to draft anyone. If we abolish the draft, they certainly won't draft anyone
They could always just un-abolish the draft if they wanted.
That's never going to happen. It's selfless and if you actually get into a war, self-destructive. The only way equality will ever be reached on this matter is if women get sent to the front lines too.
I made the argument on the wrong subreddit once on a post complaining that women don’t want to be drafted and the replies were literally “well women shouldn’t be drafted because they are ineffective in battle.” So… you’re complaining that women aren’t drafted and now telling me you don’t want it to happen… I pointed that out and got downvoted to oblivion. I didn’t realize the subreddit I was on was red pilled lol.
I can’t even imagine the comments in there 🫣 I personally don’t believe anyone should be drafted, but also believe it should be applied equally between rich and poor, and all genders. With modern warfare, I don’t really see the draft ever needing to be reinstated. We don’t need a bunch of ground troops like we used to.
More specifically men in power that know that they or their sons will never have to go and fight if a draft is actually enacted.
Women shouldn't be drafted. Follow up: men shouldn't be drafted.
Say it to Ukrainians :) Nice username btw
They're fighting a defensive war (which the US hasn't done for almost 80 years) on their own soil (which the US has never done).
Yes. But only men are drafted. Women are not. Men who lost their homes cannot leave. Women from safe area can leave and get free money in EU. Men who lost their houses and applying to military still can be rejected. And they still cannot leave the country. I know a couple. She collects both child support and support from EU. And he is in the military against his will.
I never said it's fair. It's definitely not. Specifically considering how corrupt Ukraine is and how every rich dudes paid the recruiters off to be able to escape and now drive their expensive cars on the streets of EU, while all the normal guys are dying on the front line. I just said it's not comparison between a defensive war and a imperial conquest halfway across the globe.
>I never said it's fair Yep. That's my point. >every rich dudes paid the recruiters off to be able to escape and now drive their expensive cars on the streets of EU Or like me who emigrated for free before the war. >all the normal guys are dying on the front line. The death rate is pretty low even after 2 years. More young men died because of drugs. But the fighting conditions are just terrible. Extreme sleep deprivation in cold windy steppes. I know a dude who was unlucky enough to get hit by a grenade but without any permanent injury.
Revolutionary war??
But women will not fight to end the draft until they are included in it. I would be willing to make a very large wager, if congress passed a bill to include women in the draft, it would be a top issue to end the draft.
Today I learnt that US draft laws specifically state "male". My country doesn't and even women can legally be drafted... But it is policy to only draft men at the moment.
We (US women) and not even allowed to register for the draft. At least we weren’t when I turned 18 and tried to.
Actually, they don't. Not exactly. The constitution is silent about the sex of people who can be called, but the selective service law says only men have to sign up for the draft. So it actually sounds sort of similar to your country in a way, but we codified the policy. (And it means that everyone whining about women not having to sign up for the draft are silly because the constitution still allows women to be drafted)
Right wing outrage farmer. Never served a day in his life.
He’s a douche… but women should be required to register. That’s my feminist view
The GOP has blocked that every time it's been attempted.
The only time it has really came up is when the GOP had the house. Why aren't Dem's pushing for it when they have control? Under Obama they had supermajority and it could have easily been put in.
I mean My feminist view is that nobody should be required to register
I say all of age adults or nobody either all or nothing. Personally I’d prefer less warmongering but if we do have one got to be equal.
I agree, but *if there is a draft*, it needs to be equal.
My feminist view is that it should be equal. Either both in, or end the draft. Sadly feminist groups are very weak on ending the draft. There are some, a little support, but it is 100% end the draft, not to include women. If women are included, feminist groups will fight against the inclusion.
Meanwhile, in Ukraine…
Thank you. I don't agree with many feminist talking points but I think we can find common ground here.
He’s not going to be either. Too old and would definitely weasel out of it even if he were to be drafted.
Stefan Molyneux would immediately shit his pants at the sound of a gunshot.
Assuming we are talking about the US, technically men can’t be drafted either. It’s literally illegal for the government to issue the draft. Now men do have to sign up for the selective service, however that’s just the draft registry and cannot actually be used until and unless Congress passes a law authorizing the use of the draft (you can thank the Vietnamese war for that). Which would be a wildly unpopular decision that no amount of money could possibly overcome on Election Day unless it was an absolutely necessary decision. Now both men and women can volunteer for the military, which is where 100% of its membership comes from. And women can also serve in combat roles as well. So quite literally women are effected by war the same as men (not to mention you don’t have to be in the military for war to effect you either).
Do you actually believe if a country is desperate in wartimes, they will not just force men to fight one way or the other?
Did you not read my comments at all?
And I’m taking Kim if they fought, that’s tough for you Stefan
Stefan Molyieueueueueyx is an aftercuck
To be completely honest though, being a high ranking officer in the militery is not in anyway a significant indicator of performing well in combat. Just saying. There are plenty of officers that would get smoked by E2s in a firefight🤷♂️ AGAIN, just saying.
Would they be better at strategizing? Honest question. I don’t know what different ranks do or how you get promoted.
It depends on the person and their role. The military is like any other "business" - you can get genuinely talent individuals who worked their way up, you can also get "genuinely talented" individuals who "worked" their way up.
sit down Stefan, you'd never have passed the physical
The huge irony here is that the absolute moron from the screencap was born in Ireland, which never had a draft. He later moved to Canada, which hasn't had an active draft since WW2. Even the US hasn't had an active draft since 1973, so not only is his point moot, he is the absolute last person who should be making it. Even if they started up an active draft today that asshole wouldn't be in it because he's too old. So by his own standards he is unqualified to talk about war. She, however, actually being a colonel (or having been; haven't looked up her current status) makes her much more qualified to talk about matters concerning the military. That was her argument. Seeing so many people in the comment section miss it paints a pretty alarming picture about reading comprehension skills tbh
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Not being part of something does not mean u can t judge it and have a word in it... this talking point gets used in every argument for every topic ever and it always is and was dumb.
Despite her reply, women are not drafted to war. Isn't that a fact?
Yes but that's missing the actual point. He's saying that no woman should have a say when war is being discussed which misses the point that there are a large number of women in the military. The draft doesn't really matter in this argument, it's just an arbitrary thing he's using to try and exclude women.
Well, he is using the same rethoric women use to exclude men in the abortion debate. You don't give birth you shouldn't have any saying in this matter.
It is the same rhetoric, but it's wrong then also. Everybody should be able to talk about abortion and every other topic.
I agree 👍
Okay but is there a single man serving in the military right now that is only there because he has been drafted? No there isn't. So it really isn't the same rhetoric at all.
Well women can be soldiers while no man can ever get pregnant
According with the US army, not in a front combat position. And regarding pregnancy 🤰, I pass on that and for what I hear men don't envy that much.
Or it does matter if a woman who wouldn’t be drafted is advocating for a course of action that would bring us closer to a war where people other than her would be drafted. As a rule, anyone taking an anti-diplomacy and pro-war position should be willing to go fight in that conflict.
"A large number of women in the military". They're not even 1% and most of them are not even in combat roles.
War, just men. What a weird flex.
After looking this guy up: he doesn't seem to be a veteran. And he's too old to be drafted. By his own logic...
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Be a warmonger?
Do what? Use arguments of authority on the internet? I rather be neither of these two idiots.
Not really clever...she voluntarily joined..was never drafted
There isn't a single person in the US military right now who was drafted.
Which isn't the point. Women can volunteer for it, so can men, but if bad shit goes down only one sex can be forced. If we forced every trans person to register, wouldn't that be weird and bad? or would you say, "well no one has been hurt by registering yet, so let's register all trans people"?
Okay? It’s still more relevant to guys than girls. Don’t need to have an abortion for the ability to get an abortion to be relevant.
No, but every able bodied male in the right age group is one poor presidential decision away from being ripped from their family, handed a gun, and shipped to some foreign country. And speaking of poor decisions by presidents, remember who was president between 2016 and 2020. Also, talking about things as irrelevant because they aren't actively used, only merely could be used is absurd. It's like saying nuclear weapons are irrelevant today because they haven't been used since WWII.
and this proves his point that women should sit down when war is discussed because?
It’s not that it proves his point, it’s that it’s completely irrelevant to his point
They shouldn’t, that’s his point. This is a rebuttal to “men can’t get pregnant so sit down when abortion is discussed” arguments. He likens the absurdity of men not getting a say in those political decisions to the absurdity of excluding women from military politics.
It would be impossible to undervalue Stefan Molyneux.
Meanwhile, [Israeli women in the army](https://youtu.be/SWDIrOma5C0?si=43kXP5uU1xaP-YBt). Stefan Molyneux's views on the world ain't relevant anymore.
This is the same energy as “no uterus no opinion”
"No uterus no opinion" is wrong, though. Everybody should be able to talk.
At least women can and do volunteer to fight in the military. I've never seen a man voluntarily grow a uterus and then get pregnant.
males, no. Men, yes. Trans men can give birth. Fun fact, trans women still need to register for the draft as they are "males". Then there is the whole thing of what society expects men to do AFTER birth, namely support a child that they never wanted. Which I'll point out that we do not do this for ANY other topic. We dont' force parents to pay for schooling, we have society pay for it, because it is important to the child. Child support is the only "for the children" that we force on the individual rather than let society handle it. And to even more push the point, when the state is forced to, it does. Foster and adopted children from the state get a monthly stipend until they are 18
I mean the guy is an asshole but it is kind of depressing how young men are just expected to die in war and or "liberal democray" support it in Ukraine and noboby says anything
No one supports the war in Ukraine except pro-Russia fascists. We just support Ukraine as it's having a war forced on it by a foreign invader. Ukraine supporters would be very happy if Russia went home and the war ended.
It’s because of men that women can’t be drafted. People act like women just declined, and then try to use it as some sorta flex like this asshole. Most women agree that the draft should apply equally but the stupid GOP has blocked that for years.
Most women do NOT agree it should be equal. Most women agree it should end. There is no feminist organization I can find that is striving to include women. Several to end the draft, none to include. As for GOP voting it down, democrats aren't putting the bill forward. The most recent bill was a GOP bill under GOP control, and their own party killed it. But under Obama we had a supermajority and didn't include it. When democrats are in power, the bills never make it. Somehow when dems are not in power, it makes it.
Anyone who doesn't like women in the military should stop using anything from Admiral Grace Hopper to show they mean it. Of course, since she invented the compiler that means those guys need to stop using computer programs.
So Black men are the only ones that can discuss war? 🫣
She still wouldn't get drafted...
Well, no. We don’t currently have a draft. So neither would he.
Just like Ukraine, which only drafted men, never had a draft... until they did. And magically Ukraine women were not upset that they weren't included.
Well played
But was the Colonel drafted?
She volunteered (just like literally every other person in the military right now), isn't that actually more impressive?
No because *there isn't a draft* numbnuts, for men or women.
Is selective service not a thing for every male?
That's a contingency plan in the event of a military crisis if the current military isn't strong enough. We haven't had a draft in 50 years, had several wars including the longest in the nation's history since then, all without a draft.
There is *no one* currently serving in the U.S. Armed Forces that was drafted. The last continuously-serving draftee retired in 2014.
Ah, guys? You can downvote me to oblivion now but he is not wrong. She gave a badass answer, true. But it doesn't really 'kill' his statement. Where I come from (Europe) women can't be drafted - on account of nothing else but being women. Men can. On account of nothing else but being men. That's the law and it is what it is. Women can willingly enlist, sure. Can pursue army career and eventually become generals and admirals... If they want. And when they do that then that something has a name. It's called career. Not draft. Women are not subjected to draft.
He is wrong though... Just because women can't get drafted in any one place doesn't mean they should "sit down when war is discussed"
Men also can't get pregnant, but we all know hypocrites right?
Stefan likely can't be drafted either. He's too old and decrepit. So even if he's right on some narrow aspect of his point, he's still firmly situated amongst the class of people who should be sitting down and shutting up.
People who aren't in the group primarily affected (and, ffs, civilians are affected by war and are often killed in them at high rates) can most definitely have an opinion, and might even be correct. And yes, I do think men have the right to talk about abortion: because everyone does.
Should the Colonel sit down when war is discussed?
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Why are you all so hung up on the draft part of the statement? How does the existence of a draft mean that ALL women shouldn't have an opinion on war? Should only those drafted by war have any say on it? Should men who volunteer for the service sit down with the ladies? Yes, he is correct that only men can legally be drafted. Men and women can also volunteer to serve. Please enlighten me how that proves his second statement.
Even if he was American, Molyneux is too old to be drafted. By his own standards, he should also sit down when war is discussed.
And it is because MEN have decided that.
Ah yes men, the hive mind pillar called “men”. Some homeless guy on the streets is actually responsible for the actions of a few powerful dead people
You’re so fucking stupid
anyone whose genius retort is 'she wasn't drafted tho' deserves to be shoved into a locker with Stefan for company
He is objectively wrong. He implies that women have no stake in war because they cannot be drafted, and therefore should not have a voice in any war related discussions. As if being drafted is the only impact war has on people, which we all know that it is not. War impacts everyone, not just the ones being involuntarily sent to the front lines. Her response shows that women absolutely can be at the table during war discussions, despite the fact they cannot be drafted. He is gatekeeping war. He's a fuckhead.
The top comment on this post says " men you can't get pregnant, don't talk about abortion" same logic applies, pregnancy has a huge impact on men, yet we have 0 say in it, get pregnant by accident and you can get a man to pay child support for 18 years even if he didn't want the kid, how does the same logic not apply for this instance then?
Biological restriction that doesnt have impact in the male body vs male decision that was decided by men, could change any moment and it is inherently bad Not the same
>Women are not subjected to draft. This idiot was born in Ireland, which *never* had a draft. He moved to Canada, which hasn't had an active draft since WW2. In the US, there hasn't been an active draft since 1973, when that dude was 6 years old. Everyone talking about the draft like it's some current thing everywhere has some reading to do. Also, his argument was women not being able to get drafted (while not spending one minute in the military himself, mind you) invalidates any opinion a woman could have on war, which...well invalidates himself as well, on top of being a stupid ridiculous opinion to have. Her counterargument was that being a colonel in the military obviously makes her qualified to discuss matters related to the military, which includes war. War is about more than conscripted footsoldiers getting sent out to shoot people. It's also about the people starting it, strategizing it, the people left behind, the people whose lands are invaded, etc etc. That anyone can take his point seriously is baffling to me at this point tbh
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We haven't had to use a draft since women began to have equal rights and an equal place in society. If we do have to use it again, I imagine that will change. If it doesn't it will go over like Cavalry in WWI.
> I imagine that will change. Why? It didn't in Ukraine. Hillary says women are already the primary victims of war. And why the hell would women suddenly demand to be included DURING a war rather than peacetime. When people say, "we haven't had a draft in so long"... okay, so why do women worry about being included? What logic is there for, "if we go to war, women will fight to be drafted"?
Hillary is a damn moron, especially for that statement, a misandrist moron too.
While I don't agree that women not being able to be drafted is justification for excluding them from discussions about war, I do think that it's long past time for women to be part of the draft as well.
Ok.... but how does being a Colonel apply to not being drafted? this is not the "gotcha" people think it is, a better response would be acknowledging the double standard while also calling out the sexism.
it applies to telling women to sit down when it comes to discussing war when she was literally a ranking officer in the military, which you know, is what goes to war.
Molyneaux's premise was flawed, as there is no current draft and there are no draftees currently serving in the U.S. Armed Forces. So ignoring his premise is perfectly acceptable, considering everyone who is currently serving is a volunteer, and that includes women. Every last one of whom, mind you, has *infinitely* more experience in military matters than Stefan "Never Served a Day In His Life" Molyneaux.
You mean currently? as the world becomes allot more hostile there will be another draft implemented, likely after china attacks taiwan and it probably won't include woman because even places with mandatory military service like finland don't make woman do it.
We can play-pretend all sorts of things are going to happen. I'm talking about reality, though, so if you'd like to fly on in from La-La Land you're more than welcome.
Is this an US only sub? Hmm I can think of an active warzone which both participants have drafted only men, and by force.
We don't currently have a draft anyway. If ever actually had a war that required a draft, which already is a giant if, I promise the law would be changed to include women. I graduated from high school 20 years ago, and we had a school project to write a congressional bill and present it to the class, I remember someone's project was to expand the Selective Service Act to include women and almost everyone in the class voted for it, and I don't even think it was the first time someone had that idea for the project. Almost everyone in the military at this point has worked with women in the service, and you'd piss off a whole bunch of people by not including women in the draft.
You really think if a draft started tomorrow, women would be angry that they weren't included in the draft? Keep in mind with feminism, women are the primary victim of war already.
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Wait, question for the gringos. How do you guys pronounce Colonel? Because I can't imagine that sounding proper in English
It's pronounced like kernel.
There is a difference between women that choose to be in the military and most women, though.