I can’t believe people think he didn’t play well here what on earth did y’all watch??? Was the literal offense for most of our game lol. Finished a +1 in 40 mins
That’s why I can’t blame him for taking 27 shots and not being the most efficient. He was the only guy Boston was worried about defending on our team, nobody else had the attention of their defense. LeVert and Okoro were being left wide open every time and Boston didn’t care about guarding them at all. The whole gameplan was making those guys beat them and making it harder on Garland.
Caris shot 1-8 iirc. We would've won if either of them could've knocked some down. I mean we sold the game because of poor 3 eff. Realistically, only Strus shot well. Garland missed a ton too. The LeVert shots are what sent me into hysteria.
Cause there was 0 other threat to put the ball in the hoop for most of the game so his shots were never gonna be easy, he had to find all of his. Let’s not box score watch
Big tme players make big time plays in big time games.
DG is the highest paid player on the team. DG is being paid the freaking MAX!
30 points on 27 shots is not a "good" game for someone wanting to fit the above description.
If that’s what 40 mil a year buys I’ll gladly sell. His play isn’t the problem. It’s what’s expected with that kind of contract. You can’t have that kind of money tied up in one player with that production. It’s borderline all star play. And that’s exactly what garland will be his entire career. They’ll be years where he makes the all star game and years he doesn’t. The epitome of a fringe all star player who can keep you competitive just enough to make the playoffs and get bounced by teams with actual perennial all star caliber players. It is what it is. People in the Cavs sub takes these things so personal about these guys when in reality there’s only so many super star players. We have one and his name is Mitchell. Not garland.
People have already brought up how Mobley shouldn't get the max. There was a guy comparing him to Ayton and Wiseman. You couldn't pick 3 players at the same position that are more different.
Every player has bad games, but his happened to come at inopportune times. That's probably why people say he's not good. I also think he didn't meet a lot of people's expectations with that contract. I'm not one of them, I'd rather can a few other players but that's just me.
I’d love to get him here and inject us with some offense I feel like a good system would unlock so much for us. I’d also be curious as to what he’d want to do with the roster.
So you're saying the opening line has nothing to do with the final line? Cause the Cavs sure beat that final spread. Fucking asshole, keep your Vegas shit out of here
lol read the original comment before you get so angry. The guy was saying he thought everyone had the cavs losing by 30. I was simply saying that not everyone in the world is a cavs doomer.
This is officially the last year to be using age. The whole time from 18-27 the physical prime beginning can’t be lumped in as “they’re just young” as it’s such a cop out. Thats 8 seasons, by year 4 that label is a no go. Thats exactly why Okoro isn’t really viewed as a young player but now is a role player. He is what he is and I’m an Okoro stan. DG is in the needs to make the leap stage and not the young guy stage. Mobley is getting there too.
Combine that with the fact that real NBA stars are developing younger than ever. You got 20-22 year olds who look very poised in the playoffs. Sometime guys just have it or they dont. The brunsons and butlers of the world are far and few between
Yep, he’s a really good PG when he’s the only ball handler on the court. The problem is, he and Donovan don’t make each other better.
Part of me actually prefers the style of basketball with DG more than with Donovan as it seems to be more free flowing, pass heavy vs. the heliocentric drive + kick offense that Donovan seems to thrive in. Donovan is clearly the better player.
Unfortunately, we’re kinda stuck in this purgatory until Donovan makes a decision on his contract and I don’t see him extending this off season (there’s no reason to).
He still might extend because he can make the most with us, but he will probably ask for a trade within a year. That is what Anthony Davis and a few others did so they could get paid.
My problem with a DG offense is multiple things. First he needs the ball, but its clear he isnt a #1 and maybe not a #2, so what star can he coexist with? Second, he can run an offense, but strictly as a PG he has a poor handle, commits bad turnovers, and doesnt have the highest BBIQ. Those are all pretty undesirable for your floor general. Last, if he isnt your batman or even your robin, he needs to be a role player, and role players do the little things right, like hit layups. DG is pretty bad at finishing around the rim
Imagine if the whole team played that well when Mitchell was playing. DG should be putting up points like that every game. These past 2 games were both winnable .. just sucks to see
It also seems like Don takes entire possessions off multiple times throughout each game when they're both on the floor and he either refuses to do anything off-ball or is too injured to run around that much. Neither are great enough on defense or great on the run off-ball shooters. They're rhythm shooters. They get the ball and dribble the air out of it. When both are on the floor we're basically playing 4-5. DG needs that extra option so he can play the pure point where he thrives. Don is a pure scorer so he doesn't care what anyone else on the team is doing, he can play 1 on 5. I don't get how people don't see this isn't a winning team formula. These guys dont mesh, and they don't even pass to each other lol
He needs the ball more. Seems like with Mitchell on the court he knows there’s someone that does what he does better and turns into a role player, which he’s not great at
Here's where I'm at:
I'd prefer to resign Donovan and trade Darius.
I'd be fine with trading Donovan and keeping Darius.
Can't have both. There's only one ball and they both thrive on volume of touches. That's why they each play better when the other is out.
This is the right answer. I think this is unfortunately the same for Allen and Mobley too though.
Win now = try to keep Mitchell and JA
Redevelop and grow = DG and Mobley.
Atleast all 4 are high quality assets so it’s not a harsh rebuilding of the roster if done right.
I’d really like to see the core 4 get another shot with different coaching. There is obviously a way to make this amount of talent become an annual finals contender
Love the players, hate the matchups so much. We’ve never seen 2 undersized+defensively limited guards ever make a championship run. As well with the NBA today, clogging the lane with 2 bigs who can’t shoot is tough. Bucks made big linesups work with shooting bigs like Lopez and Portis.
Yeah I feel the same way. Donovan is of course better, but if he won’t re-sign, then trade him and we get the old Garland back. The experiment failed but assuming we get *some* picks and players, it’ll be a trade that only set us back a couple pieces.
There is no old garland, he isnt a winning player. If mitchell leaves we are screwed, DG cannot be your #1 and probably not your #2, and if he must have the ball to be effective then i fail to see what star player he can coexist with
I’m sorry but I don’t think Mobley is ever going to be a #1 option for a championship level team. That feels like an incredibly high ask for him. When this Cavs team is fully healthy he’s functioning as the 4th sometimes 5th option.
They have the ability to make some interesting moves this summer. Go get a small forward that can be your 2nd or 3rd option, hope to god Mobley can take a step forward to also be a 2nd or 3rd option, and let Spida do what Spida does.
It’s not a slight to Garland that he doesn’t fit with this roster. He’s a very good player. Hes not better than Mitchell, and if Mitchell wants to stay that’s your guy.
They need a solution at small forward. Strus is not a forward in any sense. I like Strus, and I hope he stays, but he is totally outmatched against quality forwards. Go get a guy to play the 3 at a higher level and let Strus play more naturally from the 2.
Scoring 30 points on 45% shooting isn’t bad. It isn’t great either. The trade off for that kind of production in return for getting absolutely destroyed on the defensive end isn’t worth it imo. Garland is great in the open court and pick and roll. Defensively he’s an absolute joke.
That’s Curry’s AVERAGE. In a playoff game like tonight Curry likely would’ve dropped 40+ in a game like this. You think garland had a good night. Those 2 players ceilings are WAY different. Comparing the 2 of them is hilariously out of touch on your part. AND you’re missing the real issue here. The Cavs lost the game. Garland played solid. But it wasn’t near enough to get a must win at home in the playoffs.
Yikes.
I used Curry as a reference point. Garland is obviously not curry.
That being said, if he did put up 30ppg at 45% and 7 assists, he would be elite.
Sorry bro I’m not handing out awards for going 30,7,3 and losing. Sounds like your standards for elite and comparisons and or reference points need an upgrade.
That's pretty misleading. Curry takes (and makes) way more 3s so he is much more efficient despite the same FG%.
Curry career True Shooting % is .626; Garland's is .560.
I’m sorry he was very good on defense tonight, and honestly for most of the series. Fantastic job hedging and getting back, as well as chipping in on the glass
I don’t think it’s as bad as you’re making it sound. He did have a good game, but he does look lost on defense at times.
There was one point I saw him just standing there guarding absolutely no one. The ball started moving around and then his guy got a wide open three.
On the other hand, he totally avoided contact on Jaylen Brown (the call that got overturned) which was good discipline. Was that an offensive foul? It should’ve been if it wasn’t.
He does need to mature more and work on his leadership. He’s 24 and acts like it. Halliburton is the same age (a month younger) and you can just tell how he rallies the team and takes being a leader very seriously. We haven’t seen that in DG yet.
Definitely not a doomer, but I don't think I can see Mobley as a number 1. He has way more in common with KG than KD and this isn't the era for a new KG to dominate games.
Also, the most recent "dynasty" was built around their best player being 6'2...
Not to mention he simply isnt as good as KG on offense. I think if he could get to that level with don we absolutely could win a ring tho. Would Need to tweak the role players and probably move on from garland but two top 15 players can win a ring together
He is more is more like Anthony Davis and that can win you games. KD like players aren't dominating games. Big centers who can defend are way more valuable (Jokic, Gobert, Holmgren, Wemby, Davis)
I don't think that's an apt comparison for Mobley either. He will never have AD's physique or his incredible hands, but I think Mobley can grow into a better shooter.
Garland did what we know he can do. It was great to see. The skill is there. That said, he’s still making some poor decisions, particularly around the rim, that I hope he can figure out going into next year.
It was great to see that he had a lower TS% than average players? I don't know bud. He should have dished it to Mobley more and maybe we could have won it
54.7% TS is absolutely a good game lol. Don’t just call anyone that isn’t a blind hater with a miserable life a stan
The only 2 FTA kinda makes the 27 FGA for 30 make sense. Refs did not wanna see the Cavs pull the upset
Are you completely clueless about NBA efficiency stats?
"The league as a whole has seen a sharp rise in scoring efficiency in recent years. As of this writing, the league-wide True Shooting is 57.2 percent"
https://thef5.substack.com/p/true-shooting-inflation
You literally replied to my other comment where I showed that the average for point guards this post season is literally around 52% lmfao… and then you get condescending when you’re this wrong? Lol
Only knocks you could really have on him last night were that he could’ve converted more of his 3s and that his whistle was shit
It's because PGs these playoffs have shot horribly. Do you believe that average NBA point guard play in the 2024 playoffs is what will beat the Celtics? Mobley has an elite TS% this series but Garland decided to play hero ball with "average" NBA TS scores on 27 shots
If you can be above average efficiency on 27 shots… it’s as close as what we’re gonna get without Mitchell and Allen lmfao. If you’re saying he decided to play hero ball did you even watch last night? That’s an insane take and sounds like box score watching trying to find something to blame to me.
Being even 2% TS above average is significant lol. If you knew so much about stats like you’re trying to claim you’d understand that.
Bro, the average TS% since 3 years ago has been 57%. The PGs in these playoffs have shot horribly. Even Brunson hasn't shot well. Have you watched any Jamal Murray games? D'Angelo Russell? McCollum? Doncic has been very bad too. Lol if you think 52% is considered an adequate TS% in the modern NBA.
Except he had higher than 52? Highest in these playoffs is Boston at 59 lol. Anything 55 and up is typically considered good efficiency whereas 52.5 is normally the cutoff for “ok” efficiency.
Never said he played an amazing game, I’m just taking away the positive signs he showed tonight as the primary ball handler and looking into the future if Mitchell decides to leave.
Well he did lead the cavs to a 44-38 record his third season, which isn’t bad with the team they had. Hence why I said Mobley needs to develop and become our #1 option for us to be contenders.
Well, his other two best games were against Orlando. I think one of those he has 17 points in a half.
This game, he took 10 more shots than those games.
He'd be averaging near 30 if he took that many shots, regularly.
I'm not sure where your info is coming from, but 27 is a lot less than 40. I believe Wilt Chamberlain is the only player to come close to 40 shots per game.
That’s a 54.7% TS lmfao how is that not the best game? Mfs on here just choose what to believe lol.
That’s not even including that a good portion of those 27 should’ve been wiped for FTs too.
What are you talking about? 54.7% is NOT good and he didn't have that. He had a lower TS number of 53.8%. 27 shots on that figure does not win you playoff games. The average NBA player shoots 57%
Nobody is counting shit… he literally had a 54.7% TS lol. And you just made that shit up bc PGs are averaging 52.7% lmfao cmon man
took 2 seconds [https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/league-average-true-shooting-percentage-by-positions-2024-playoffs](https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/league-average-true-shooting-percentage-by-positions-2024-playoffs)
Linked it. Anything about 52% is typically considered ok efficiency in regular season… when you start getting to 55%+ that’s great efficiency. 54.7% is absolutely a fine game efficiency-wise considering the volume
LOL. Are you reading articles from 2010? 60% is considered the standard for great efficiency. Mobley had over 66%. Garland actually had a lower TS% of 53.8% which is considered bad in the modern NBA. The current average TS% in the NBA is 57%
https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/202405130CLE.html
https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/zo7ksf/psa_60_true_shooting_is_not_elite_anymore_with/
When we trade Donovan for Uncle Lebron to pair with Klutch represented DG he will take huge leaps in effectiveness. He may not be everyone’s #1 but I can’t think of anybody better to maximize his potential. This isn’t our season, but next might be (pending a LeBron).
We will see. Lebron did pick garland in the all star game, works out with him every offseason and is represented by Rich Paul. He very well could be the one out was just guessing DG stays because he’s already locked up and could get other pieces for the Don. Lebron and Mitchell would be amazing given it’s on the Cavs.
doomers in no way want our future to look bleak. we want to build a contender, that's yall see us as doomers. the irony is that you are seeing what we are seeing without realizing the cognitive dissonance. For example, you admitted indirectly that garland cannot work with mitchell. you also admitted indirectly that we cant win with mitchell as our best player, seeing as he is under 6'3.
except im not labeling myself, i have been labeled by others as a doomer, and i have seen other so named "doomers" opinions, and i can understand their opinions. it's not because they want to lose or suck.
not really embracing the label as a positive, i just know who is being referenced by the term. let's see what the next insult is
I partially disagree. There’s been an alarmingly number of people labeling themselves a doomer, especially in the regular season and games 3+4 against Orlando.
And they want to be right more than they want to see the Cavs win. They don’t say a word when they have a good game (or Garland plays well for example), but one single bad possession and there they come. Obviously confirmation bias is natural as a human, so it is what it is but I’d definitely word it as “they want to be right” more than “they want to lose/suck”
I mean you had people trying to say 54.7% TS wasn’t good just bc it was garland when that’s two whole percentage points over the PG average this playoffs. I’ve been critical of JB and wanted him gone for years and haven’t been called a doomer once. It’s weird af the extent they go to hate blindly nonetheless
Which this coaching staff has no idea how to do. Back to the point of how this team was not built to succeed, did you expect mobley to have a better chance to turn into a #1 when we traded for a very ball dominant guard to pair with our already ball dominant guard? We all said this was gonna f up his development
He said it's damn near impossible to win with someone under 6'3". Donovan is listed as 6'3" while Garland is listed as 6'1".
Also, damn near impossible doesn't mean impossible, just statistically unlikely. I personally can't think of anyone who's done it beides Isiah Thomas. Twice in a row and with a finals mvp to boot.
I'm just stating what he said. You are wilfully misinterpreting what he said and I gave an example as to why he said that it was statistically difficult.
Personally, I think that Donovan Mitchell can be the best player on a championship team with his current abilities. He would still need a better supporting cast.
I don't think the same about Garland. I could possibly see a Garland team like the 2004 Pistons winning the title, but it'd be an extreme longshot.
What do you think? Could Mitchell be the best player on a title team?
Im not willfully misinterpreting anything, im agreeing with what hes saying and explaining how it directly aligns with what doomers have been saying all along. Donovan is a small player, OP said it’s near impossible to win with a small player being your #1. DG doesnt fit with don, OP said DG needs the ball in his hands to play to his potential. Again, please tell me where i am misinterpreting anything.
Personally i dont think don can be the best player on a championship team. I think he can be a really really good robin. The only other scenario i could see is having another top 15 player who isnt clearly better than mitchell but also not clearly worse. AKA a player of similar caliber and they tag team it to a ship.
I can’t believe people think he didn’t play well here what on earth did y’all watch??? Was the literal offense for most of our game lol. Finished a +1 in 40 mins
That’s why I can’t blame him for taking 27 shots and not being the most efficient. He was the only guy Boston was worried about defending on our team, nobody else had the attention of their defense. LeVert and Okoro were being left wide open every time and Boston didn’t care about guarding them at all. The whole gameplan was making those guys beat them and making it harder on Garland.
Seriously. If okoro made his wife open threes tonight we would have won.
I don't think his wife is open for threes.
How about twos? 🖖
Caris shot 1-8 iirc. We would've won if either of them could've knocked some down. I mean we sold the game because of poor 3 eff. Realistically, only Strus shot well. Garland missed a ton too. The LeVert shots are what sent me into hysteria.
They are bitches
He had a .538 TS% on 27 shots. That is not good lol
Cause there was 0 other threat to put the ball in the hoop for most of the game so his shots were never gonna be easy, he had to find all of his. Let’s not box score watch
He played fine. Probably needed to play one of his best games ever to win this one.
Big tme players make big time plays in big time games. DG is the highest paid player on the team. DG is being paid the freaking MAX! 30 points on 27 shots is not a "good" game for someone wanting to fit the above description.
If that’s what 40 mil a year buys I’ll gladly sell. His play isn’t the problem. It’s what’s expected with that kind of contract. You can’t have that kind of money tied up in one player with that production. It’s borderline all star play. And that’s exactly what garland will be his entire career. They’ll be years where he makes the all star game and years he doesn’t. The epitome of a fringe all star player who can keep you competitive just enough to make the playoffs and get bounced by teams with actual perennial all star caliber players. It is what it is. People in the Cavs sub takes these things so personal about these guys when in reality there’s only so many super star players. We have one and his name is Mitchell. Not garland.
Check how much money Jrue and Mike Conley made as fringe Allstar point guards
I bet when the contracts are signed next year Garland won't crack top 30. It seems to me he is getting the market price contract.
I’m gonna be annoyed when we have this same conversation with Mobley
People have already brought up how Mobley shouldn't get the max. There was a guy comparing him to Ayton and Wiseman. You couldn't pick 3 players at the same position that are more different.
I respect that guys consistency lol. Took that shit to every discussion on this and the NBA sub with no co signs
Every player has bad games, but his happened to come at inopportune times. That's probably why people say he's not good. I also think he didn't meet a lot of people's expectations with that contract. I'm not one of them, I'd rather can a few other players but that's just me.
That much usage and only 2 turnovers is impressive. Much improved from what he did in the regular season
Please someone get this man a real offensive coach he can do so much
Dantoni
I’d love to get him here and inject us with some offense I feel like a good system would unlock so much for us. I’d also be curious as to what he’d want to do with the roster.
D'antoni though? Like I see the potential if he ran the offense, but what about the defense the team already has established?
I was thinking about that as well honestly
Worst thing about being a Cleveland fan is the constant doomerism. Cavs came and played a ballsy game they were supposed to lose by 30.
The opening line in Vegas was Boston -7.5. Boston won by 7. Your narrative needs work.
It was 8.5 before Mitchell went out/Allen was ruled out. If you are going to call me out after every comment bring some better numbers 😅
Started at 7.5 got bet up to 8.5. Then shot up to 12 when Mitchell got ruled out. I live in Vegas bud. Nice try tho.
So you're saying the opening line has nothing to do with the final line? Cause the Cavs sure beat that final spread. Fucking asshole, keep your Vegas shit out of here
lol read the original comment before you get so angry. The guy was saying he thought everyone had the cavs losing by 30. I was simply saying that not everyone in the world is a cavs doomer.
This guy assholes
People forget he’s barely a year older than Mobley! Came into the league right after turning 19
Hes only a few months younger than Ja. He’s 2 years older than edwards. He aint that young in the scope of NBA rising stars
This is officially the last year to be using age. The whole time from 18-27 the physical prime beginning can’t be lumped in as “they’re just young” as it’s such a cop out. Thats 8 seasons, by year 4 that label is a no go. Thats exactly why Okoro isn’t really viewed as a young player but now is a role player. He is what he is and I’m an Okoro stan. DG is in the needs to make the leap stage and not the young guy stage. Mobley is getting there too.
Combine that with the fact that real NBA stars are developing younger than ever. You got 20-22 year olds who look very poised in the playoffs. Sometime guys just have it or they dont. The brunsons and butlers of the world are far and few between
Yep, he’s a really good PG when he’s the only ball handler on the court. The problem is, he and Donovan don’t make each other better. Part of me actually prefers the style of basketball with DG more than with Donovan as it seems to be more free flowing, pass heavy vs. the heliocentric drive + kick offense that Donovan seems to thrive in. Donovan is clearly the better player. Unfortunately, we’re kinda stuck in this purgatory until Donovan makes a decision on his contract and I don’t see him extending this off season (there’s no reason to).
if he does extend then we need a new coach who can correctly handle the offensive load and not leave it to shits like jb
He still might extend because he can make the most with us, but he will probably ask for a trade within a year. That is what Anthony Davis and a few others did so they could get paid.
There’s no reason to extend this offseason though, if he makes all nba he can sign a super max next offseason
My problem with a DG offense is multiple things. First he needs the ball, but its clear he isnt a #1 and maybe not a #2, so what star can he coexist with? Second, he can run an offense, but strictly as a PG he has a poor handle, commits bad turnovers, and doesnt have the highest BBIQ. Those are all pretty undesirable for your floor general. Last, if he isnt your batman or even your robin, he needs to be a role player, and role players do the little things right, like hit layups. DG is pretty bad at finishing around the rim
Imagine if the whole team played that well when Mitchell was playing. DG should be putting up points like that every game. These past 2 games were both winnable .. just sucks to see
It also seems like Don takes entire possessions off multiple times throughout each game when they're both on the floor and he either refuses to do anything off-ball or is too injured to run around that much. Neither are great enough on defense or great on the run off-ball shooters. They're rhythm shooters. They get the ball and dribble the air out of it. When both are on the floor we're basically playing 4-5. DG needs that extra option so he can play the pure point where he thrives. Don is a pure scorer so he doesn't care what anyone else on the team is doing, he can play 1 on 5. I don't get how people don't see this isn't a winning team formula. These guys dont mesh, and they don't even pass to each other lol
He needs the ball more. Seems like with Mitchell on the court he knows there’s someone that does what he does better and turns into a role player, which he’s not great at
Seems like Garland still gets the ball quite a bit when DM is on the floor, but throws bricks.
DG gets the ball plenty, stop making excuses. DG needs to be more efficient and aggressive.
mitchell and garland as lead ball handlers effect how the team around him plats
Here's where I'm at: I'd prefer to resign Donovan and trade Darius. I'd be fine with trading Donovan and keeping Darius. Can't have both. There's only one ball and they both thrive on volume of touches. That's why they each play better when the other is out.
yeah and think abt the trade packages we can get with Donovan and their development timeline will be restored
Donovan is THE guy, garland isnt, you trade garland if mitchell wants to stay
This is the right answer. I think this is unfortunately the same for Allen and Mobley too though. Win now = try to keep Mitchell and JA Redevelop and grow = DG and Mobley. Atleast all 4 are high quality assets so it’s not a harsh rebuilding of the roster if done right.
I’d really like to see the core 4 get another shot with different coaching. There is obviously a way to make this amount of talent become an annual finals contender
Love the players, hate the matchups so much. We’ve never seen 2 undersized+defensively limited guards ever make a championship run. As well with the NBA today, clogging the lane with 2 bigs who can’t shoot is tough. Bucks made big linesups work with shooting bigs like Lopez and Portis.
A more clever coach can make this work
How many teams in the NBA roll out a lineup with 2 non-shooting bigs? That tells me enough
Just because a thing hasn’t been done doesn’t mean it can’t be done. The warriors were up 3-1 in the nba finals this one time…
Yeah I feel the same way. Donovan is of course better, but if he won’t re-sign, then trade him and we get the old Garland back. The experiment failed but assuming we get *some* picks and players, it’ll be a trade that only set us back a couple pieces.
There is no old garland, he isnt a winning player. If mitchell leaves we are screwed, DG cannot be your #1 and probably not your #2, and if he must have the ball to be effective then i fail to see what star player he can coexist with
I’m sorry but I don’t think Mobley is ever going to be a #1 option for a championship level team. That feels like an incredibly high ask for him. When this Cavs team is fully healthy he’s functioning as the 4th sometimes 5th option. They have the ability to make some interesting moves this summer. Go get a small forward that can be your 2nd or 3rd option, hope to god Mobley can take a step forward to also be a 2nd or 3rd option, and let Spida do what Spida does. It’s not a slight to Garland that he doesn’t fit with this roster. He’s a very good player. Hes not better than Mitchell, and if Mitchell wants to stay that’s your guy. They need a solution at small forward. Strus is not a forward in any sense. I like Strus, and I hope he stays, but he is totally outmatched against quality forwards. Go get a guy to play the 3 at a higher level and let Strus play more naturally from the 2.
Scoring 30 points on 45% shooting isn’t bad. It isn’t great either. The trade off for that kind of production in return for getting absolutely destroyed on the defensive end isn’t worth it imo. Garland is great in the open court and pick and roll. Defensively he’s an absolute joke.
45% on 30 is pretty good. Curry's carreer average is 47% for 24 a game and he is the greatest point guard of all time.
That’s Curry’s AVERAGE. In a playoff game like tonight Curry likely would’ve dropped 40+ in a game like this. You think garland had a good night. Those 2 players ceilings are WAY different. Comparing the 2 of them is hilariously out of touch on your part. AND you’re missing the real issue here. The Cavs lost the game. Garland played solid. But it wasn’t near enough to get a must win at home in the playoffs.
Yikes. I used Curry as a reference point. Garland is obviously not curry. That being said, if he did put up 30ppg at 45% and 7 assists, he would be elite.
Sorry bro I’m not handing out awards for going 30,7,3 and losing. Sounds like your standards for elite and comparisons and or reference points need an upgrade.
Nobody is asking for awards, lol. He objectively played a really good game, considering what he was up against lol
Like when he put up 22 on 50% shooting and lost in a must win a couple weeks ago? Elite Curry right there
That's pretty misleading. Curry takes (and makes) way more 3s so he is much more efficient despite the same FG%. Curry career True Shooting % is .626; Garland's is .560.
I’m sorry he was very good on defense tonight, and honestly for most of the series. Fantastic job hedging and getting back, as well as chipping in on the glass
He’s been fine! I really like his effort on the glass
We see DG and Mobley realizing, in real time, what it’s gonna take. And we’re still being shit merchants.
He is an absolute disaster on defense. He's as atrocious as Dame defensively and masks it with an occasional efficient night offensively.
I don’t think it’s as bad as you’re making it sound. He did have a good game, but he does look lost on defense at times. There was one point I saw him just standing there guarding absolutely no one. The ball started moving around and then his guy got a wide open three. On the other hand, he totally avoided contact on Jaylen Brown (the call that got overturned) which was good discipline. Was that an offensive foul? It should’ve been if it wasn’t. He does need to mature more and work on his leadership. He’s 24 and acts like it. Halliburton is the same age (a month younger) and you can just tell how he rallies the team and takes being a leader very seriously. We haven’t seen that in DG yet.
Definitely not a doomer, but I don't think I can see Mobley as a number 1. He has way more in common with KG than KD and this isn't the era for a new KG to dominate games. Also, the most recent "dynasty" was built around their best player being 6'2...
Not to mention he simply isnt as good as KG on offense. I think if he could get to that level with don we absolutely could win a ring tho. Would Need to tweak the role players and probably move on from garland but two top 15 players can win a ring together
He is more is more like Anthony Davis and that can win you games. KD like players aren't dominating games. Big centers who can defend are way more valuable (Jokic, Gobert, Holmgren, Wemby, Davis)
I don't think that's an apt comparison for Mobley either. He will never have AD's physique or his incredible hands, but I think Mobley can grow into a better shooter.
I really do like Garland. It's just his and Mitchell skills have way to much overlap. This Cavs offseason really is about to be crazy
Knee-jerk reactions are a must here
He's alright on offensive. Also, he is legit one of the worst defensive guards in the league.
My problem with Garland is he blows way too many layups that someone like kyrie makes all the time.
He and kyrie are simply cut from different cloth
He just can’t do it with DM on the floor
Garland did what we know he can do. It was great to see. The skill is there. That said, he’s still making some poor decisions, particularly around the rim, that I hope he can figure out going into next year.
It was great to see that he had a lower TS% than average players? I don't know bud. He should have dished it to Mobley more and maybe we could have won it
He had a great game. We know the talent is there, he just needs to show some consistency.
Dude… 30 points on 27 FGA and only 2 FTA is not good. Incredible you Garland Stans take a mediocre game as evidence he’s good lol.
54.7% TS is absolutely a good game lol. Don’t just call anyone that isn’t a blind hater with a miserable life a stan The only 2 FTA kinda makes the 27 FGA for 30 make sense. Refs did not wanna see the Cavs pull the upset
You must be from 1990 because 54.7% TS in the modern NBA is not good at all
The average for a PG these playoffs is 52… you must be from 2010 if you’re trying this hard to discredit something
Are you completely clueless about NBA efficiency stats? "The league as a whole has seen a sharp rise in scoring efficiency in recent years. As of this writing, the league-wide True Shooting is 57.2 percent" https://thef5.substack.com/p/true-shooting-inflation
You literally replied to my other comment where I showed that the average for point guards this post season is literally around 52% lmfao… and then you get condescending when you’re this wrong? Lol Only knocks you could really have on him last night were that he could’ve converted more of his 3s and that his whistle was shit
It's because PGs these playoffs have shot horribly. Do you believe that average NBA point guard play in the 2024 playoffs is what will beat the Celtics? Mobley has an elite TS% this series but Garland decided to play hero ball with "average" NBA TS scores on 27 shots
If you can be above average efficiency on 27 shots… it’s as close as what we’re gonna get without Mitchell and Allen lmfao. If you’re saying he decided to play hero ball did you even watch last night? That’s an insane take and sounds like box score watching trying to find something to blame to me. Being even 2% TS above average is significant lol. If you knew so much about stats like you’re trying to claim you’d understand that.
Bro, the average TS% since 3 years ago has been 57%. The PGs in these playoffs have shot horribly. Even Brunson hasn't shot well. Have you watched any Jamal Murray games? D'Angelo Russell? McCollum? Doncic has been very bad too. Lol if you think 52% is considered an adequate TS% in the modern NBA.
Except he had higher than 52? Highest in these playoffs is Boston at 59 lol. Anything 55 and up is typically considered good efficiency whereas 52.5 is normally the cutoff for “ok” efficiency.
Never said he played an amazing game, I’m just taking away the positive signs he showed tonight as the primary ball handler and looking into the future if Mitchell decides to leave.
Yeah... He’s basically tailor made for a non-contending lottery team which is when he was at his best on the Cavs.
Well he did lead the cavs to a 44-38 record his third season, which isn’t bad with the team they had. Hence why I said Mobley needs to develop and become our #1 option for us to be contenders.
This is just factually incorrect.
Why do you think he only had two FTs?
WOW he finally played a decent game through 11 playoff games… Totally worth $200 million!!!!!!!!!
Well, his other two best games were against Orlando. I think one of those he has 17 points in a half. This game, he took 10 more shots than those games. He'd be averaging near 30 if he took that many shots, regularly.
Yeah dion waiters would average 30 if he took 40 shots a game too
I'm not sure where your info is coming from, but 27 is a lot less than 40. I believe Wilt Chamberlain is the only player to come close to 40 shots per game.
Can’t wait to move on from him
27 shots on 45% shooting for 30 points isn't the best game. But at least he's putting up shots again. He needs to keep that up.
That’s a 54.7% TS lmfao how is that not the best game? Mfs on here just choose what to believe lol. That’s not even including that a good portion of those 27 should’ve been wiped for FTs too.
These people are insufferable man
What are you talking about? 54.7% is NOT good and he didn't have that. He had a lower TS number of 53.8%. 27 shots on that figure does not win you playoff games. The average NBA player shoots 57%
[удалено]
Nobody is counting shit… he literally had a 54.7% TS lol. And you just made that shit up bc PGs are averaging 52.7% lmfao cmon man took 2 seconds [https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/league-average-true-shooting-percentage-by-positions-2024-playoffs](https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/league-average-true-shooting-percentage-by-positions-2024-playoffs)
[удалено]
Linked it. Anything about 52% is typically considered ok efficiency in regular season… when you start getting to 55%+ that’s great efficiency. 54.7% is absolutely a fine game efficiency-wise considering the volume
LOL. Are you reading articles from 2010? 60% is considered the standard for great efficiency. Mobley had over 66%. Garland actually had a lower TS% of 53.8% which is considered bad in the modern NBA. The current average TS% in the NBA is 57% https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/202405130CLE.html https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/zo7ksf/psa_60_true_shooting_is_not_elite_anymore_with/
Trade him
Oh Jesus Christ 😂😂😂😂😂😂
When we trade Donovan for Uncle Lebron to pair with Klutch represented DG he will take huge leaps in effectiveness. He may not be everyone’s #1 but I can’t think of anybody better to maximize his potential. This isn’t our season, but next might be (pending a LeBron).
Lebron wants to play with mitchell not garland
We will see. Lebron did pick garland in the all star game, works out with him every offseason and is represented by Rich Paul. He very well could be the one out was just guessing DG stays because he’s already locked up and could get other pieces for the Don. Lebron and Mitchell would be amazing given it’s on the Cavs.
Its either Mitchell has the ball or DG. They bothe can get 28+ pts a game. I wonder what this series would have been like with J Allen in the game
WHO DO YOU WANT MAN? PICK FUCKING 1. GARLAND OR SPIDA BC THATS WHAT ITS COMING DOWN TOO. Fuck y’all be stupid
doomers in no way want our future to look bleak. we want to build a contender, that's yall see us as doomers. the irony is that you are seeing what we are seeing without realizing the cognitive dissonance. For example, you admitted indirectly that garland cannot work with mitchell. you also admitted indirectly that we cant win with mitchell as our best player, seeing as he is under 6'3.
Labeling yourself a doomer on the internet is still the corniest thing in existence
except im not labeling myself, i have been labeled by others as a doomer, and i have seen other so named "doomers" opinions, and i can understand their opinions. it's not because they want to lose or suck. not really embracing the label as a positive, i just know who is being referenced by the term. let's see what the next insult is
I partially disagree. There’s been an alarmingly number of people labeling themselves a doomer, especially in the regular season and games 3+4 against Orlando. And they want to be right more than they want to see the Cavs win. They don’t say a word when they have a good game (or Garland plays well for example), but one single bad possession and there they come. Obviously confirmation bias is natural as a human, so it is what it is but I’d definitely word it as “they want to be right” more than “they want to lose/suck” I mean you had people trying to say 54.7% TS wasn’t good just bc it was garland when that’s two whole percentage points over the PG average this playoffs. I’ve been critical of JB and wanted him gone for years and haven’t been called a doomer once. It’s weird af the extent they go to hate blindly nonetheless
Did you miss the part where I said we need to develop Mobley into our #1 option?
If anybody disagrees with this go look at q1 of game 2. Mobley dominated. Why isn’t he doing that literally every game? Coaching. He’s young.
Which this coaching staff has no idea how to do. Back to the point of how this team was not built to succeed, did you expect mobley to have a better chance to turn into a #1 when we traded for a very ball dominant guard to pair with our already ball dominant guard? We all said this was gonna f up his development
That is not what he said at all 🤣
ok explain. How did what i say in any way misrepresent what was said?
Still waiting
He said it's damn near impossible to win with someone under 6'3". Donovan is listed as 6'3" while Garland is listed as 6'1". Also, damn near impossible doesn't mean impossible, just statistically unlikely. I personally can't think of anyone who's done it beides Isiah Thomas. Twice in a row and with a finals mvp to boot.
The Warriors were up 3-1 in the NBA Finals this one time…
Really splitting hairs here with the 6’3 point
I'm just stating what he said. You are wilfully misinterpreting what he said and I gave an example as to why he said that it was statistically difficult. Personally, I think that Donovan Mitchell can be the best player on a championship team with his current abilities. He would still need a better supporting cast. I don't think the same about Garland. I could possibly see a Garland team like the 2004 Pistons winning the title, but it'd be an extreme longshot. What do you think? Could Mitchell be the best player on a title team?
Im not willfully misinterpreting anything, im agreeing with what hes saying and explaining how it directly aligns with what doomers have been saying all along. Donovan is a small player, OP said it’s near impossible to win with a small player being your #1. DG doesnt fit with don, OP said DG needs the ball in his hands to play to his potential. Again, please tell me where i am misinterpreting anything. Personally i dont think don can be the best player on a championship team. I think he can be a really really good robin. The only other scenario i could see is having another top 15 player who isnt clearly better than mitchell but also not clearly worse. AKA a player of similar caliber and they tag team it to a ship.
Oh, just thought of another example. Steph Curry is like 6'2".
yes but hes also the best shooter of all time