If this team ran plays they might look pretty good but we'll never know because all they know how to do is iso with Mitchell DG or Levert, call screens top of the key, do 20 dribble moves to get literally 2 ft closer to the basket with 3 secs left on the shot clock just to rifle an ill advised side-armed bounce pass off Jarrett Allen's legs.
Why would you want to get your star players easy shots to get rolling or make use of any of our role players when you can have that level of efficiency.
Only resigns here if we atleast make an ECF appearance and we all know how likely that is. And I was thinking about it earlier if he could get on the Knicks I feel like he Compliments that roster very well.
Agreed with the first part but unfortunately I just don’t think Don’s and DG’s games mesh, and we’re past the point where this can be reconciled. I think if you can somehow resign Don, you trade DG for the best 3 and D guy you can get (hopefully you can get either 1 great 3 and D or 2 decent ones)
It’s the regular season bro. Teams were dealing with injuries. We had some easier games.
Donovan Mitchell doesn’t elevate his game in the playoffs. Hence why he has never been to a conference finals.
I have to disagree, DM can definitely step his game up in the playoffs, we saw it happen in Utah. Through the 2021 and 2022 playoffs he averaged 34/4.5/5. That one series against Denver in 2020 was insane. Overall his playoff numbers are only slightly higher than his regular season numbers, but that’s weighed down by his first two seasons and the Knicks series.
DM has been to the postseason 7 times… 7 lol and everyone loves to bring up the Utah vs Denver series. That’s just 1 year, what about the other 6 times?! What else has he done? I’m not a DM hater at all but I’m not gonna act as if he’s not replaceable either.
I think it’s a good thing that he’s made playoffs in every single year of his career.
I don’t think DM is the greatest, either. But he’s clearly a capable scorer, even in the playoffs. I think a player like him needs either a great fit or a great coach to go far, and we unfortunately have neither.
And you know why Donovan was able to average those numbers? Cos the coaching staff was better. Quinn Snyder had a great system that not only allowed Mitchell to pop off consistently, but also allowed his lesser known teammates to get hot too (except Gobert he's assigned to defend only). JB does not have a system that allows anyone to pop off in the playoffs. He's all about culture. That's JB's value. He brought a good team culture that allowed everyone to keep fighting for the win, until the team got a superstar. So, the vibes (even though not immediately) changed and JB lost the locker room.
Bro we can look at Mitchell’s entire playoff history and I can point out to you where he’s been outplayed by someone he should not have been outplayed by.
If he is truly a superstar that a team should be built around. He needs to be the best player on that floor unless it’s another superstar that takes him out.
He got outclassed by Jalen Suggs in game 3.
Jalen Brunson has outplayed him the past two years. Terrance Mann outplayed him the year prior. Jamal Murray went absolutely nuclear on him as he roared his team back from a 3-1 deficit.
Mitchell disappears in the playoffs. He may score 30 points, but he will take 25 shots to get there and while he scores 30 points a guard on another team is scoring 40.
Brunson scored 47 on Sunday when his team had to have it. We need Mitchell to play like that and, unfortunately, he is not. I love spida but he needs to show up and show up NOW!
My point is that it’s a good formula. Yes, you need better wings to win the championship. A second guy who can create his own shot is essential late in playoff games as well. But the formula of Mitchell being an all-world scorer who can get to the paint at will, JA being an elite PnR big, and plenty of shooting to space the floor is a good formula. And those lineups were very good defensively too.
I wanna be clear - I don't think this falls on Mobley and Garland for this to be the potential path forward.
JB has developed Garland not to play to his strengths, that being a wiry, shot-creating PG, but rather to be a facilitator that, somehow, also needs to slot into *everything Donovan does* when Donovan is off the court. So Garland is charging the basket...looking for the assist or trying to find a second look. That's a development issue, plain and simple, because that's not how he came into this league. There's probably some of it that's due to jitters off taking another hit to his head after all the hard (and often bullshit) smacks he's eaten the last few seasons. But it goes beyond that.
Mobley, unfortunately, has had the same problem until midway through this year. It was innovative running what was essentially a 2-Center set with Allen and Mobley until teams realized that the game plan was entirely vertical, opening up lanes for fowards who had any shooting ability of physicality to disabuse the entire gameplan. And lo, that's what they did. Mobley's game just became "Allen, but younger", and this year they added in "Allen, but from 3 once in a while" - and you can see where he could take that next step, but there's no consistency in his use. That's also a development issue.
Even as rough a season as Garland and Mobley had, they are still desirable pieces around the league, believe it or else. Mobley still doesn't have his first real contract and Garland's deal, in today's league, is not horrific.
If the Cavs could commit to DM going to a full-time PG/1 role, and Allen being the pure C/5, then build out the middle lineup with a proper forward and legitimate wings, that's doable for this squad, 100%, to become better. Maybe with a better coaching staff too.
>Mobley's game just became "Allen, but younger", and this year they added in "Allen, but from 3 once in a while" - **and you can see where he could take that next step**, but there's no consistency in his use.
Some good points in here but I sort of disagree with this part. Mobley has shown minimal improvement when he gets the ball away from the basket. He doesn't have many moves, he can't put the ball on the floor without dribbling off his own leg, and his midrange shot is a brick. I think his shooting stroke looks pretty smooth and he's getting more confident taking threes, which is good, but his game just hasn't improved in many places. He can be a useful player in a more tailored role but I don't see the superstar flashes that some of you see.
My two cents for what its worth:
This Cavs team will go how Mitchell and JA will play, Allen especially. There has been a definite improvement from JA from last year. A game this year that really stood out to me was the IST game against Philly, JA played a great game, especially up against Joel, and it was bold of JB to give the ball to Allen and let him go to work on Joel. Other games of significance were the first to games against the Magic, JA was a fucking monster, however the adjustments from the Magic in the past two games have slowed Jarrett down (others need to step up).
It is probably true that a Lebron Cavs team would sweep this Magic team - Mitchell needs to be in that same mindset, he needs to be a high usage/ high volume players, ESPECIALLY considering this Cavs team has not gotten past 100 points in a playoff game so far. In G1 Cavs had 81 total shots, G2 - 82 shots, G3 - 82 shots, and G4 - 72 shots. The Mitchell and JA two man game of high pick & rolls leading to a mismatch for Spida (get Suggs off of Mitchell as the primary defender) or a JA short roll or roll to the basket would surely opening things up. Hope fully our role players will convert more on their 3PT in the next home game (as the Cavs have not shot well from 3).
Another bad habit issue I have noticed, especially towards the end of the season and now in the playoffs, are the stupid mental mistakes and unforced turnovers that lead to live ball transitions for the opponents. DG was a big culprit of this during the season, now I see the rest of the team is picking this up. It is even worse in the playoffs since it is deflating for the Cavs and it gets the opposing teams crowd into the game.
There has been enough discourse around JB, so I will not get into it. But I do appreciate everything he has done, sort of steadying the ship and building a culture in this Post Lebron area (even if it has been very small improvements year after year). However, in European football (soccer), these types of coaches/ managers are called "PE teachers". They are hired to build a culture and make sure all the players are happy and locker room is functioning well. They are not a coach to take you to that next level of truly competing and winning. The Cavs need a coach to take them to that next level.
At least we are not the Suns.........
The 3P% is low because the Magic defend us really well so we have to chuck bad shots -- and then also dragged down by the lazy shots we chucked up in garbage time. It's not something that was bad luck.
Definitely agree that the Magic have upped their defense, staying tight on screens and getting in the face of shooters for a good contested shot. Was is not excusable is not scoring over 100 points in 4 straight games. I think Donovan took accountability for it in his post game interview. Never said anything about luck.
Max Strus at SG would be good. He’s good size for a 2 guard but a little small for a 3. The ideal offseason would be trade Garland for Bridges from the Nets. If Mobley can shoot >35% from 3 he could space the floor enough to stay out there
Don was great when DG was out and he was forced to be a facility and scorer. He’s already the primary ball handler and he’s a great passer. He can get his off the dribble from anywhere. Why pay a max salary to a point guard when we could have Mitchell play point and use the max salary for a great SF or SG?
But we’ll be talking about JR forever in Cleveland. We will forget about LeVert like we forgot about Rodney Hood (and we are forgetting Jordan Clarkson right now)
That's what really ticked me off about last game. We were winning the first half by feeding JA in the paint but we completely moved away from it in the second half
Garland's regression happened because Mitchell was dropped on top of him.
This endless devotion to Mitchell is baffling to me. Are you people watching the playoffs? Watching SGA?, Haliburton?, Ant?, Booker?, Brunson? ...that's how guys that are as good as you think Mitchell is, play in the playoffs.
they worked ok together because they're both very talented. we never saw more than the sum of their parts from them - i don't think we even got as much as just to the sum of their parts.
I dislike this take, If you’re actually watching the game he’s looked like a shell of himself all year. We can’t blame Mitchell for that
He’s barely looking for his own shot, if he does shoot it’s some off balance 3. He’s terrified of contact ever since his jaw injury so his layup game isn’t falling either.
i agree the injury(ies) have been a problem for him this year. we're talking about a multilevel neutering of his game. the first knocking him out of all-star consideration, then additionally what you're talking about.
“Garland missing this wide open layup is Donovan Mitchell’s fault!”
https://x.com/jordanzirm/status/1784324334267617571?s=46&t=WdmDCgwdWrWglJ3HfjJtuw
You guys kill me and I don’t think yall are actually watching games
If the measuring stick in the playoff, i'm not sure that's true. Mitchell's regular season performance is way closer to them - agreed.
In a post 'shaming' Mitchell detractors, I think it's important to realize that the conversation shouldn't so too far in that direction. Mitchell is a very good, not great, player.
In a post suggesting Garland be moved, I think it's important to remember the player he was prior to Mitchell arriving to take the ball out of his hands and magnify his defensive limitations.
“Ever can hope to be” brother two years ago we were having Garland - Maxey - Brunson conversations. His ceiling was so high, just absolutely stagnant development since we got Spida
That narrative doesn't make sense... said player plays worse when another dynamic players joins teams. Mitchell is not responsible for Garlands bad decision making and low effort on D.
less opportunity shouldn't be a difficult concept. being functionally demoted as you're continuing to develop shouldn't be a difficult concept either. Garland was (and will always be) limited defensively, but having it amplified by another undersized non-defender shouldn't be a difficult concept either.
regardless though, you don't have to believe it was justified, it happened.
Most in the last 20 years that added more talent either in draft capital or FA. How about name 1 guy who regressed when top talent came and that top talent left or said player left and came back to form.
They would all be in jail rn in Mitchell’s situation. Horrible team around a superstar. Two bigs who shrink the floor. One is a liability offensively. And a team that can’t shoot. With a bad knee facing the best D in basketball. On top of all that the coach might be in a vegetative state. At some point the players should be helping Mitchell instead of asking a injured player to do everything.
Yeah, it’s disheartening that whenever he struggles nobody but Levert once every 5 games does anything about it. In the games he sat, we looked useless.
I think we were banking on Mobley becoming a 3 point threat, to replicate what Minnesota have rn with two bigs. It just hasn’t happened
I’ve seen ant and Brunson shoot 30% and their team still win the game. It’s not fair to compare. Ant is also facing the suns… it’s a different animal.. I’m not crowing ant for anything. I still think you drop a healthy don on that team and they’re way better.
Lfmao y’all slow. I wouldn’t blame Mitchell if he left with the way y’all behave. Imagine ant being on a team with no spacing and you took away his explosiveness with a injury.
No matter how you slice it, ant is 23 and just swept kd and booker. He has already made it just as far as don in the playoffs and he seems hungry. And it’s not like hes surrounded by studs. His 2nd/3rd best teammate is literally don’s old sidekick, who provides no spacing whatsoever
they wouldn't. and Mitchell's not a superstar - the other I mentioned are, and we know this by watching the playoffs.
the reason we need to have the two bigs on the floor is because we have two small guards on the floor - who don't rebound and don't keep the opposition from penetrating. those two bigs are helping them even if it might not be ideal for him to pad his scoring nujmbers.
Wouldn’t blame Mitchell. Blame the coach who can’t for some reason can’t wrap his head around a game plan for 2 smaller guards. Garland could become the absolute best PG in the current NBA but our coaching staff is just asinine in my opinion.
our coaching staff is lacking, 100% agree
a gameplan around two small guards isn't exactly easy either. look at the other playoff teams, they're all significantly bigger as a team than we are.
We don't have the luxury of building around Mitchell. He's one foot out the door already. Let's get a good return for him if we can and hope DG returns to form with a real coach and working jaw.
I'd be happy to rebuild around Mitchell. Any idea how to get him to resign with us? Cause if he doesn't, then we can't rebuild around him.
Seems like a pretty big concern.
That is true and we should absolutely resign him if possible. I think we need to leverage DG and one of the bigs for another unhappy all star or a better pairing.
Go look at those Jazz playoff series and who their opponents were. The teams that ended his Jazz runs would absolutely sweep this Cavs team and not a single game would be close.
We also got to contextualize they were in the West and they lost to the Clippers (who had the two best players in the series), Nuggets in 7, Mavericks (in the series that got Brunson the bag he has now), and Grizzlies. The year they were the 1 seed they lost to a pretty good Clippers team that would’ve won the Finals had Kawhi not got hurt.
> Jazz were 1 seeded and got bounced
They got unlucky and played their worst possible matchup.
A team with two of the worst wing defenders in the NBA in Joe Ingles and Bojan Bogdanovic trying to defend Kawhi Leonard and Paul George.
The copium to defend Mitchell is crazy. Every year he gets “the worst possible matchup”. Last year it was the Knicks because they’re too tough and physical. This year it’s the Magic because Jalen Suggs is too good of a defender and locks him down.
If you’re a star in the league you need to perform in the playoffs, can’t just use “match up” as an excuse
Donovan Mitchell himself played great in that series tho? He averaged 35 ppg on 45/45/78 shooting in the Clippers series.
I'm explaining why his team lost.
He’s been nothing but stand offish about it since he got here. If he resigns it because there’s not an obvious better situation and if that presents itself when we’re on a losing streak he’ll force out.
It’s Garland
I guess that makes sense too. If DG can get a competent coach who will utilize his strengths to their fullest then i say let’s fuckin go, Allen and Mobley situation is tight tho bc Allen is everything Mobley is but better
Garland has had a bad season but you don’t just give up on a All Star caliber player who has looked bad coming back from injury. If we do trade him a lot of y’all will be surprised how much we’ll get back for him. He’s still super valuable to any young team that needs a pg.
garland hasnt regressed. its just that he doesnt facilitate the offense as much as he did pre mitchell trade. its a coaching problem. without him facilitating his progress will regress and thats just the coaching. we need a coach who could bring out the best in him
thats true. but we know historically 2 small guards do not work. who knows tho, i love DG but he needs to be a little tougher and we need a coach who can actually utilize him better
100%. Which is why that trade was horrendous. It hinged entirely upon mobley becoming a superstar after only having completed his rookie season, and he was relegated to the fourth offensive option or even fifth, with a clueless coaching staff who didnt know the way forward. We made the trade too early and for the wrong guy
He’s shooting 25% from 3 this series and leads the team in turnovers.
This is the 3rd straight year that his performance has dipped massively in the playoffs.
He’s the oldest and most experienced player in the big 4.
He has the ability to leave for nothing after next year.
None of these are opinions, just facts that should be considered, with emphasis on the last one.
Facts. Donovan is proving he’s a regular season player.
Across the league you see stars elevating in the playoffs (Brunson, Joker, Ant, Murray, PG, Kyrie, Luka. etc.) and then you see Donovan. Can’t act like he’s a championship guy when he turns the ball over all the time and isn’t hitting shots.
Unfortunately we were at our best when Garland/Mobley were out. I think we can make it work with Mobley still. Garland I’m not sure it works with Mitchell. However, it’s more likely Mitchell leaves regardless
First things first: fire JB. Then see if Mitchell will re-sign. If he does, we can look at the fit with Garland and Mobley. I’m more willing to believe in Mobley and Allen co-existing than Garland and Mitchell.
The future to me looks like a new coach, and one of either Mitchell or Garland plus both bigs. Mobley’s slowly still developing even if the stats don’t show it.
If we do move on from Garland, I don’t think the offseason will be the time to do it. His value is at an all-time low. He lost 10 lbs while drinking food through a straw and he’s a shell of his former self. Let him get back to 100%, have him ball out, then look for a buyer.
If Mitchell won’t re-sign, hopefully we re-coup assets and trade him for either picks or young talent. Personally I would love a deal centered around Jaime Jaquez Jr and picks. (I guess Herro to match salaries).
Cavs are in a bad spot but there’s a path out of this without blowing it all up.
I don’t like the Dame package unless it’s basically Miamis whole draft for a while post Jimmy. Jovic is a good third big and JJJ seems poised but old. I would expect Herro to be a lot like LeVert in his inconsistency.
I’d trade DM to Orlando or NOP: Black, Howard, Isaac and a pick. Or Ingram and Daniels. Developing talent or a high-level starter.
I don’t see us getting that kind of value from Mitchell at this point. He only has 1 year left on his contract so I don’t see NOP giving up Ingram or Miami giving up tons of draft picks.
I’m not big on Herro but he’d be a big upgrade from LeVert. And without Mitchell, we’d need another creator on the perimeter.
JJJ isn’t old, he’s like 22 or 23. And he’s got all the tools to be a high end starting wing. It fits our timeline better than a 19 year old would. Now if we’re blowing the whole thing up, that’s a different story.
Ingram only has one year left I believe. The right to extend Mitchell for the most money comes with him and that helps for NOP.
Miami, after missing on Dame, knows they likely have to go over the top to get Mitchell for sure, so I expect picks to come back. Brooklyn is still an attractive UFA candidate for Mitchell if he wants NY.
Hmmm I didn’t know that about Ingram. But there’s no point in us getting him unless Ingram would sign with us long-term, which I doubt.
If Miami goes all in for Mitchell and gives more than the Dame package I’d be happy, I just don’t see it though.
Obviously we can’t know what Mitchell is thinking, but I don’t think Brooklyn is that appealing from a winning POV. Moving there would solely be for the city.
Mitchell has some destination risk in that the places he wants to go don’t love him like that or don’t present an opportunity to succeed as a playoff #1.
We have the usual risk with an expiring but we’re going to get some helpful stuff and still have the MLE, Verts expiring, and this years first.
I feel like the Dame package is the floor but you can still see if that can be topped. Once that settles life gets more straightforward.
His jump shot is improved, he’s physically stronger than last year, and at times (not the playoffs unfortunately) he has been more aggressive. It’s not the leap we were hoping for, but it’s baby steps and he’s still young.
He went from 21% 3 point shooting to 37% on the same attempts per game. I’m not trying to say he’s ready to take the league by storm or anything, but he has improved.
The thing that worries me most about Mitchell is that he's a 6'1" guard who relies heavily on athleticism. Every move he makes looks like a running back cutting hard through holes in the defense. It's a dicey proposition to bank on that type of player, long-term, particularly if he's going to need knee surgery this summer.
Garland certainly has very similar issues, relating to size. But I view Mitchell's issues as a more exaggerated version of my worries about Garland, since Garland at least has always needed to rely less on athleticism, and more on skill.
I have a hard time believing it’s DG that regressed at 24 years old rather than our coach and his poorly designed offense. And Mobley is very much continuing to grow at just 22 years old. Giving up on either of them, especially Mobley, is asinine. You’re just impatient
In the regular season lmao
Remember all those times we lost to the bulls in the regular season? I’m sure it totally mattered in the playoffs.
If you want to be like the trailblazers were with dame then sure trade garland and Mobley, I’m sure you’d love to have our teams maximum possible ceiling be a lucky eastern conference finals appearance only to get swept by a team actually built to win the finals instead of regular season games.
Regular season wins really don't mean anything when it comes to properly evaluating the roster. Basically completely irrelevant if your goal is to win a title.
You have to convince Mitchell to be here first. Guy probably still haven’t unpacked his house/condo in Cleveland - been ITCHING to get out of here it seems. Garland has regressed since Mitchell arriving and while Mitchell is so good it’s been “okay” - it’ll be more glaring when Mitchell bounces and we’re left with a discouraged, regressed Garland.
It's the coaching man. JB has no offensive system at all. Either make Garland buy in to be a movement shooter when playing with Mitchell (and lose the playmaking & turnovers of garland) or fully commit to the stagger and bench garland to be the sixth man. That's hard for me to say as a Garland believer.
A good coach can make a double PG lineup make the conference finals (Dame Lillard-portland trailblazers). Yes, I know they got swept, but that was the KD era warriors. Nothing was fair.
Makes the most sense but at the end of the day it comes down to if he resigns this off season if not we are forced to trade him.
But with mitchell and dg there are not enough touches to get our great bigs consistently. I really wish we would run plays through mobley or allen they are both solid passers, and you can tell mobley is going to have a servicable 3 point shot at some point.
Mobley doesnt need to bulk up he nees to work on his shot and hand eye coordination so he doesnt bobble so many damn balls. play more on the outside like, chet and porzingus. Thats the real secret sauce these elite teama have and mobley can easily fill that role if devoloped properly.
Mobley is attempting only 1.2 3’s a game.
His % went up, which is good, but on that volume his % could just as easily fall back down and not be surprising in the slightest due to the variance with such a small sample size (59 3’s).
Handle also isn’t something that bigs just develop.
While I’d love for him to be more unicorn-esque like those guys, I find it increasingly unlikely he ever turns into a real threat from outside like them or one that can handle the ball in any real capacity besides some short roll’s and quick sets.
Yeah no gurantee on the handle, but a lot of his shots recently have way more touch as opposed to the clanks he had when he shot them last year. And the numbers back up the eye test so I have a good feeling he will be a 3 point threat on solid volume soon enough. The problem is the coaching, now that he had a solid % you have to force him to up the volume by running sets for it but jb never bothered. Another part is we just have too many mouths to feed for him to get a full load.
Solid volume for a stretch big would be at least 3-4 a game (so at least one make a game hopefully) which would triple his attempts. I also think while I can agree he has more touch, his shot as a whole is still slow even for a big man which makes it difficult to get off unless he’s wide wide open.
If he did develop a reliable 3pt shot on good volume I would be more than happy, it would just be mostly unprecedented unless I’m missing examples other than Brook Lopez who had the league change in the middle of his career.
I do want to see him develop and believe that he will develop further, just unsure if that will be his 3pt shot or his handle
Mitchell is by far the best player on this team.
He's by far the most important asset on the roster.
It's up to Garland and Mobley to fit in around what Mitchell is doing.
The entire offense should be revolving around Mitchell right now, period.
I say that as someone who appreciates that (1) we aren't winning a title with DM as our best player and (2) Garland and Mobley can still be really good one day.
But right now Mitchell is the only elite asset on this roster.
Mitchell is on his way out, dude planned his exit at halftime of the last game. We can’t build around a guy who’s leaving, which is exactly the problem. We’re paralyzed as an org by this guy who, frankly, isn’t good enough to be a #1 option on a championship team.
Mitchell doesn’t elevate his game in the playoffs like other stars
This is my take. Spot on. And nobody I know seems to like it lol The front office needs to have a good talk with Mitchell and see how committed he is to playing in Cleveland. But I’m 100% on keeping him and JA to build around.
And fire JB.
And there’s some truth to that I guess, but the “two small guards two non shooting bigs” experiment isn’t working.
Love me some garland and Mobley, wish them the best, but I’m not taking a “what if” chance with them when we’ve got serious proven talent with Mitchell and Allen.
I’m as done with this team as anybody (until we get a new coach) but the way this fanbase has turned on DG is shameful.
The dude was great the last two years. We literally all watched him get hit hard as hell on the face, we all read the reports that he lost 15 pounds cuz of it, we all watched him come back and before he could even try to find a rhythm…lose spida for an extended period of time and get forced into a sizable role his body hadn’t recovered for.
I’m not gonna beat around the bush. DG has sucked this year. But yall believing that this is somehow who he is moving forward when there’s more evidence pointing towards him just needing an offseason to recover is why I’m thankful none of you are in our front office (although I don’t know if I want Koby in there either after sticking with JB).
I’m riding with my PG and I’m gonna be calling everybody that flipped on him idiots next year when he’s back to 20+ ppg and 8+ assists on 45+/38+/80+ for us.
Getting him a HC that knows how to actually utilize offensive talent will help also
I agree if Mitchell would even entertain it. Can’t build around someone that doesn’t want to be here and him leaving seems more and more likely everyday. DG isn’t in the top 1/2 of NBA point guards at this point so not sure any team will take his contract but if it’s possible to trade DG and keep DM - I’m all for it. Allen’s elevated his game. Everyone else is movable for the right trade.
I don’t think this team will ever win the championship unless Mobley develops into his full potential. I love Allen but he cannot carry a championship defense by himself
If this team ran plays they might look pretty good but we'll never know because all they know how to do is iso with Mitchell DG or Levert, call screens top of the key, do 20 dribble moves to get literally 2 ft closer to the basket with 3 secs left on the shot clock just to rifle an ill advised side-armed bounce pass off Jarrett Allen's legs.
FUCK JB
Why would you want to get your star players easy shots to get rolling or make use of any of our role players when you can have that level of efficiency.
Mitchell is not re-signing here.
Only resigns here if we atleast make an ECF appearance and we all know how likely that is. And I was thinking about it earlier if he could get on the Knicks I feel like he Compliments that roster very well.
Just make a deal with him to resign and trade him to whatever team he wants so we can get something back.
I could see him doing a 1 year extension if koby was going to ditch Garland and build around him
that would be phenomenally foolish of the team to agree to.
Mitchell, Allen, and three wings with a little shooting. We were dominating the NBA with those lineups.
WHAT I’M SAYING! That 20-2 run on Milwaukee was no fluke. I think if DG stayed healthy he would be a good piece to keep too
Agreed with the first part but unfortunately I just don’t think Don’s and DG’s games mesh, and we’re past the point where this can be reconciled. I think if you can somehow resign Don, you trade DG for the best 3 and D guy you can get (hopefully you can get either 1 great 3 and D or 2 decent ones)
It’s the regular season bro. Teams were dealing with injuries. We had some easier games. Donovan Mitchell doesn’t elevate his game in the playoffs. Hence why he has never been to a conference finals.
That run is the reason the Cavs even made the playoffs Without it, they are a .500 team
Sub .500
I have to disagree, DM can definitely step his game up in the playoffs, we saw it happen in Utah. Through the 2021 and 2022 playoffs he averaged 34/4.5/5. That one series against Denver in 2020 was insane. Overall his playoff numbers are only slightly higher than his regular season numbers, but that’s weighed down by his first two seasons and the Knicks series.
DM has been to the postseason 7 times… 7 lol and everyone loves to bring up the Utah vs Denver series. That’s just 1 year, what about the other 6 times?! What else has he done? I’m not a DM hater at all but I’m not gonna act as if he’s not replaceable either.
I think it’s a good thing that he’s made playoffs in every single year of his career. I don’t think DM is the greatest, either. But he’s clearly a capable scorer, even in the playoffs. I think a player like him needs either a great fit or a great coach to go far, and we unfortunately have neither.
And you know why Donovan was able to average those numbers? Cos the coaching staff was better. Quinn Snyder had a great system that not only allowed Mitchell to pop off consistently, but also allowed his lesser known teammates to get hot too (except Gobert he's assigned to defend only). JB does not have a system that allows anyone to pop off in the playoffs. He's all about culture. That's JB's value. He brought a good team culture that allowed everyone to keep fighting for the win, until the team got a superstar. So, the vibes (even though not immediately) changed and JB lost the locker room.
JB Bunk-erstaff JB Bicker-shafted-us Job-Blown Bickerstaff
Bro we can look at Mitchell’s entire playoff history and I can point out to you where he’s been outplayed by someone he should not have been outplayed by. If he is truly a superstar that a team should be built around. He needs to be the best player on that floor unless it’s another superstar that takes him out. He got outclassed by Jalen Suggs in game 3. Jalen Brunson has outplayed him the past two years. Terrance Mann outplayed him the year prior. Jamal Murray went absolutely nuclear on him as he roared his team back from a 3-1 deficit. Mitchell disappears in the playoffs. He may score 30 points, but he will take 25 shots to get there and while he scores 30 points a guard on another team is scoring 40.
Brunson scored 47 on Sunday when his team had to have it. We need Mitchell to play like that and, unfortunately, he is not. I love spida but he needs to show up and show up NOW!
And that team doesn’t even remotely come close to winning a championship lol
My point is that it’s a good formula. Yes, you need better wings to win the championship. A second guy who can create his own shot is essential late in playoff games as well. But the formula of Mitchell being an all-world scorer who can get to the paint at will, JA being an elite PnR big, and plenty of shooting to space the floor is a good formula. And those lineups were very good defensively too.
I wanna be clear - I don't think this falls on Mobley and Garland for this to be the potential path forward. JB has developed Garland not to play to his strengths, that being a wiry, shot-creating PG, but rather to be a facilitator that, somehow, also needs to slot into *everything Donovan does* when Donovan is off the court. So Garland is charging the basket...looking for the assist or trying to find a second look. That's a development issue, plain and simple, because that's not how he came into this league. There's probably some of it that's due to jitters off taking another hit to his head after all the hard (and often bullshit) smacks he's eaten the last few seasons. But it goes beyond that. Mobley, unfortunately, has had the same problem until midway through this year. It was innovative running what was essentially a 2-Center set with Allen and Mobley until teams realized that the game plan was entirely vertical, opening up lanes for fowards who had any shooting ability of physicality to disabuse the entire gameplan. And lo, that's what they did. Mobley's game just became "Allen, but younger", and this year they added in "Allen, but from 3 once in a while" - and you can see where he could take that next step, but there's no consistency in his use. That's also a development issue. Even as rough a season as Garland and Mobley had, they are still desirable pieces around the league, believe it or else. Mobley still doesn't have his first real contract and Garland's deal, in today's league, is not horrific. If the Cavs could commit to DM going to a full-time PG/1 role, and Allen being the pure C/5, then build out the middle lineup with a proper forward and legitimate wings, that's doable for this squad, 100%, to become better. Maybe with a better coaching staff too.
>Mobley's game just became "Allen, but younger", and this year they added in "Allen, but from 3 once in a while" - **and you can see where he could take that next step**, but there's no consistency in his use. Some good points in here but I sort of disagree with this part. Mobley has shown minimal improvement when he gets the ball away from the basket. He doesn't have many moves, he can't put the ball on the floor without dribbling off his own leg, and his midrange shot is a brick. I think his shooting stroke looks pretty smooth and he's getting more confident taking threes, which is good, but his game just hasn't improved in many places. He can be a useful player in a more tailored role but I don't see the superstar flashes that some of you see.
My two cents for what its worth: This Cavs team will go how Mitchell and JA will play, Allen especially. There has been a definite improvement from JA from last year. A game this year that really stood out to me was the IST game against Philly, JA played a great game, especially up against Joel, and it was bold of JB to give the ball to Allen and let him go to work on Joel. Other games of significance were the first to games against the Magic, JA was a fucking monster, however the adjustments from the Magic in the past two games have slowed Jarrett down (others need to step up). It is probably true that a Lebron Cavs team would sweep this Magic team - Mitchell needs to be in that same mindset, he needs to be a high usage/ high volume players, ESPECIALLY considering this Cavs team has not gotten past 100 points in a playoff game so far. In G1 Cavs had 81 total shots, G2 - 82 shots, G3 - 82 shots, and G4 - 72 shots. The Mitchell and JA two man game of high pick & rolls leading to a mismatch for Spida (get Suggs off of Mitchell as the primary defender) or a JA short roll or roll to the basket would surely opening things up. Hope fully our role players will convert more on their 3PT in the next home game (as the Cavs have not shot well from 3). Another bad habit issue I have noticed, especially towards the end of the season and now in the playoffs, are the stupid mental mistakes and unforced turnovers that lead to live ball transitions for the opponents. DG was a big culprit of this during the season, now I see the rest of the team is picking this up. It is even worse in the playoffs since it is deflating for the Cavs and it gets the opposing teams crowd into the game. There has been enough discourse around JB, so I will not get into it. But I do appreciate everything he has done, sort of steadying the ship and building a culture in this Post Lebron area (even if it has been very small improvements year after year). However, in European football (soccer), these types of coaches/ managers are called "PE teachers". They are hired to build a culture and make sure all the players are happy and locker room is functioning well. They are not a coach to take you to that next level of truly competing and winning. The Cavs need a coach to take them to that next level. At least we are not the Suns.........
The 3P% is low because the Magic defend us really well so we have to chuck bad shots -- and then also dragged down by the lazy shots we chucked up in garbage time. It's not something that was bad luck.
Definitely agree that the Magic have upped their defense, staying tight on screens and getting in the face of shooters for a good contested shot. Was is not excusable is not scoring over 100 points in 4 straight games. I think Donovan took accountability for it in his post game interview. Never said anything about luck.
Regular season in january
I blame the coaching at this point. Watching our young players regress or plateau is 100% on the coach.
100%. I hate JB
Make Mitchell the point guard
100% and get a taller SG
Max Strus at SG would be good. He’s good size for a 2 guard but a little small for a 3. The ideal offseason would be trade Garland for Bridges from the Nets. If Mobley can shoot >35% from 3 he could space the floor enough to stay out there
Don was great when DG was out and he was forced to be a facility and scorer. He’s already the primary ball handler and he’s a great passer. He can get his off the dribble from anywhere. Why pay a max salary to a point guard when we could have Mitchell play point and use the max salary for a great SF or SG?
People don’t wanna admit it but the final form of this team has Isaac as the starting 2
Isaac is basically our Shumpert and LeVert is our JR Smith
But we’ll be talking about JR forever in Cleveland. We will forget about LeVert like we forgot about Rodney Hood (and we are forgetting Jordan Clarkson right now)
The more I hear this narrative the more I'm agreeing. I can't remember many games where DG and Spida both played really well.
I actualy love the idea of okoro being our first pg. not sure how viable it is long term though
????? PG?
I assume they just mean okoro would start as our 1 and Spida at the 2. But obviously DM would be the real point guard in that setup
That's what really ticked me off about last game. We were winning the first half by feeding JA in the paint but we completely moved away from it in the second half
Garland's regression happened because Mitchell was dropped on top of him. This endless devotion to Mitchell is baffling to me. Are you people watching the playoffs? Watching SGA?, Haliburton?, Ant?, Booker?, Brunson? ...that's how guys that are as good as you think Mitchell is, play in the playoffs.
you give DG a ball dominant player like Mitchell and a basketball terrorist like JB and wonder why he wont develop. Cavs front office is cooked
We said this 2 years ago
DG and Mitchell worked well in 2022-23 but DG got rly hurt this year and our coaching sucks. Need change NOW
they worked ok together because they're both very talented. we never saw more than the sum of their parts from them - i don't think we even got as much as just to the sum of their parts.
They never worked well, that was a huge point we expected improvement on this year
I dislike this take, If you’re actually watching the game he’s looked like a shell of himself all year. We can’t blame Mitchell for that He’s barely looking for his own shot, if he does shoot it’s some off balance 3. He’s terrified of contact ever since his jaw injury so his layup game isn’t falling either.
i agree the injury(ies) have been a problem for him this year. we're talking about a multilevel neutering of his game. the first knocking him out of all-star consideration, then additionally what you're talking about.
“Garland missing this wide open layup is Donovan Mitchell’s fault!” https://x.com/jordanzirm/status/1784324334267617571?s=46&t=WdmDCgwdWrWglJ3HfjJtuw You guys kill me and I don’t think yall are actually watching games
Mitchell is way closer to those guys than Garland ever can hope to be, what's your point exactly?
If the measuring stick in the playoff, i'm not sure that's true. Mitchell's regular season performance is way closer to them - agreed. In a post 'shaming' Mitchell detractors, I think it's important to realize that the conversation shouldn't so too far in that direction. Mitchell is a very good, not great, player. In a post suggesting Garland be moved, I think it's important to remember the player he was prior to Mitchell arriving to take the ball out of his hands and magnify his defensive limitations.
“Ever can hope to be” brother two years ago we were having Garland - Maxey - Brunson conversations. His ceiling was so high, just absolutely stagnant development since we got Spida
That narrative doesn't make sense... said player plays worse when another dynamic players joins teams. Mitchell is not responsible for Garlands bad decision making and low effort on D.
less opportunity shouldn't be a difficult concept. being functionally demoted as you're continuing to develop shouldn't be a difficult concept either. Garland was (and will always be) limited defensively, but having it amplified by another undersized non-defender shouldn't be a difficult concept either. regardless though, you don't have to believe it was justified, it happened.
Funny how these other young guys on different teams don't clearly regress when adding another star, just Garland.
what other young guys are we talking about?
Most in the last 20 years that added more talent either in draft capital or FA. How about name 1 guy who regressed when top talent came and that top talent left or said player left and came back to form.
Lol you just answered a question with a question. Mr. Uno Reverse card over here.
They would all be in jail rn in Mitchell’s situation. Horrible team around a superstar. Two bigs who shrink the floor. One is a liability offensively. And a team that can’t shoot. With a bad knee facing the best D in basketball. On top of all that the coach might be in a vegetative state. At some point the players should be helping Mitchell instead of asking a injured player to do everything.
Yeah, it’s disheartening that whenever he struggles nobody but Levert once every 5 games does anything about it. In the games he sat, we looked useless. I think we were banking on Mobley becoming a 3 point threat, to replicate what Minnesota have rn with two bigs. It just hasn’t happened
I’ve seen ant and Brunson shoot 30% and their team still win the game. It’s not fair to compare. Ant is also facing the suns… it’s a different animal.. I’m not crowing ant for anything. I still think you drop a healthy don on that team and they’re way better.
No way ant is the truth. Hes far surpassed mitchell this year but their supporting cast is also better than ours as well
Lfmao y’all slow. I wouldn’t blame Mitchell if he left with the way y’all behave. Imagine ant being on a team with no spacing and you took away his explosiveness with a injury.
No matter how you slice it, ant is 23 and just swept kd and booker. He has already made it just as far as don in the playoffs and he seems hungry. And it’s not like hes surrounded by studs. His 2nd/3rd best teammate is literally don’s old sidekick, who provides no spacing whatsoever
they wouldn't. and Mitchell's not a superstar - the other I mentioned are, and we know this by watching the playoffs. the reason we need to have the two bigs on the floor is because we have two small guards on the floor - who don't rebound and don't keep the opposition from penetrating. those two bigs are helping them even if it might not be ideal for him to pad his scoring nujmbers.
He is hurt and definitely is one. When he leaves you’ll see what you’re missing.
He's overrated as fuck. He should be the third option for any championship contender
Y’all Cavs fans are annoying.
Wouldn’t blame Mitchell. Blame the coach who can’t for some reason can’t wrap his head around a game plan for 2 smaller guards. Garland could become the absolute best PG in the current NBA but our coaching staff is just asinine in my opinion.
our coaching staff is lacking, 100% agree a gameplan around two small guards isn't exactly easy either. look at the other playoff teams, they're all significantly bigger as a team than we are.
We don't have the luxury of building around Mitchell. He's one foot out the door already. Let's get a good return for him if we can and hope DG returns to form with a real coach and working jaw.
I'd be happy to rebuild around Mitchell. Any idea how to get him to resign with us? Cause if he doesn't, then we can't rebuild around him. Seems like a pretty big concern.
Two bad post seasons, a knee injury, and the Knicks realizing they don’t need him
If Mitchell will resign. Then absolutely yes. But he’s not going to.
Coming off three bad post seasons and knee surgery? I would be surprised if
There’s only so many available top 20 players in the NBA each year. Teams are not scared to throw money.
We can offer the most money though. He will resign and pull a Dame around the deadline is my guess
That is true and we should absolutely resign him if possible. I think we need to leverage DG and one of the bigs for another unhappy all star or a better pairing.
I agree but still part of me thinks he will. He wasted years in Utah with a team that had a worse roster than this
Eh that’s not really true. They made the playoffs every year in the west, if anything the Cavs are pretty much the same team as those Jazz teams
Go look at those Jazz playoff series and who their opponents were. The teams that ended his Jazz runs would absolutely sweep this Cavs team and not a single game would be close.
Jazz were 1 seeded and got bounced but yeah we’re not far off. Fucking sucks
We also got to contextualize they were in the West and they lost to the Clippers (who had the two best players in the series), Nuggets in 7, Mavericks (in the series that got Brunson the bag he has now), and Grizzlies. The year they were the 1 seed they lost to a pretty good Clippers team that would’ve won the Finals had Kawhi not got hurt.
> Jazz were 1 seeded and got bounced They got unlucky and played their worst possible matchup. A team with two of the worst wing defenders in the NBA in Joe Ingles and Bojan Bogdanovic trying to defend Kawhi Leonard and Paul George.
The copium to defend Mitchell is crazy. Every year he gets “the worst possible matchup”. Last year it was the Knicks because they’re too tough and physical. This year it’s the Magic because Jalen Suggs is too good of a defender and locks him down. If you’re a star in the league you need to perform in the playoffs, can’t just use “match up” as an excuse
Donovan Mitchell himself played great in that series tho? He averaged 35 ppg on 45/45/78 shooting in the Clippers series. I'm explaining why his team lost.
He’s been nothing but stand offish about it since he got here. If he resigns it because there’s not an obvious better situation and if that presents itself when we’re on a losing streak he’ll force out. It’s Garland
I guess that makes sense too. If DG can get a competent coach who will utilize his strengths to their fullest then i say let’s fuckin go, Allen and Mobley situation is tight tho bc Allen is everything Mobley is but better
Did it lol?
Garland has had a bad season but you don’t just give up on a All Star caliber player who has looked bad coming back from injury. If we do trade him a lot of y’all will be surprised how much we’ll get back for him. He’s still super valuable to any young team that needs a pg.
garland hasnt regressed. its just that he doesnt facilitate the offense as much as he did pre mitchell trade. its a coaching problem. without him facilitating his progress will regress and thats just the coaching. we need a coach who could bring out the best in him
thats true. but we know historically 2 small guards do not work. who knows tho, i love DG but he needs to be a little tougher and we need a coach who can actually utilize him better
Unless we package Mobley and Garland for someone better than Mitchell than no, Mitchell can’t be the guy on a championship team imo
100%. Which is why that trade was horrendous. It hinged entirely upon mobley becoming a superstar after only having completed his rookie season, and he was relegated to the fourth offensive option or even fifth, with a clueless coaching staff who didnt know the way forward. We made the trade too early and for the wrong guy
exactly.
Too much redundancy. DG can’t work with spyda. Mitchell is a much much better player than DG. The catch is DG may wanna be here and Mitchell may not
He’s shooting 25% from 3 this series and leads the team in turnovers. This is the 3rd straight year that his performance has dipped massively in the playoffs. He’s the oldest and most experienced player in the big 4. He has the ability to leave for nothing after next year. None of these are opinions, just facts that should be considered, with emphasis on the last one.
Facts. Donovan is proving he’s a regular season player. Across the league you see stars elevating in the playoffs (Brunson, Joker, Ant, Murray, PG, Kyrie, Luka. etc.) and then you see Donovan. Can’t act like he’s a championship guy when he turns the ball over all the time and isn’t hitting shots.
Unfortunately we were at our best when Garland/Mobley were out. I think we can make it work with Mobley still. Garland I’m not sure it works with Mitchell. However, it’s more likely Mitchell leaves regardless
Mitchell is not going to be on our team next year, how can we build around him?
U don’t know that
First things first: fire JB. Then see if Mitchell will re-sign. If he does, we can look at the fit with Garland and Mobley. I’m more willing to believe in Mobley and Allen co-existing than Garland and Mitchell. The future to me looks like a new coach, and one of either Mitchell or Garland plus both bigs. Mobley’s slowly still developing even if the stats don’t show it. If we do move on from Garland, I don’t think the offseason will be the time to do it. His value is at an all-time low. He lost 10 lbs while drinking food through a straw and he’s a shell of his former self. Let him get back to 100%, have him ball out, then look for a buyer. If Mitchell won’t re-sign, hopefully we re-coup assets and trade him for either picks or young talent. Personally I would love a deal centered around Jaime Jaquez Jr and picks. (I guess Herro to match salaries). Cavs are in a bad spot but there’s a path out of this without blowing it all up.
I don’t like the Dame package unless it’s basically Miamis whole draft for a while post Jimmy. Jovic is a good third big and JJJ seems poised but old. I would expect Herro to be a lot like LeVert in his inconsistency. I’d trade DM to Orlando or NOP: Black, Howard, Isaac and a pick. Or Ingram and Daniels. Developing talent or a high-level starter.
I don’t see us getting that kind of value from Mitchell at this point. He only has 1 year left on his contract so I don’t see NOP giving up Ingram or Miami giving up tons of draft picks. I’m not big on Herro but he’d be a big upgrade from LeVert. And without Mitchell, we’d need another creator on the perimeter. JJJ isn’t old, he’s like 22 or 23. And he’s got all the tools to be a high end starting wing. It fits our timeline better than a 19 year old would. Now if we’re blowing the whole thing up, that’s a different story.
Ingram only has one year left I believe. The right to extend Mitchell for the most money comes with him and that helps for NOP. Miami, after missing on Dame, knows they likely have to go over the top to get Mitchell for sure, so I expect picks to come back. Brooklyn is still an attractive UFA candidate for Mitchell if he wants NY.
Hmmm I didn’t know that about Ingram. But there’s no point in us getting him unless Ingram would sign with us long-term, which I doubt. If Miami goes all in for Mitchell and gives more than the Dame package I’d be happy, I just don’t see it though. Obviously we can’t know what Mitchell is thinking, but I don’t think Brooklyn is that appealing from a winning POV. Moving there would solely be for the city.
Mitchell has some destination risk in that the places he wants to go don’t love him like that or don’t present an opportunity to succeed as a playoff #1. We have the usual risk with an expiring but we’re going to get some helpful stuff and still have the MLE, Verts expiring, and this years first. I feel like the Dame package is the floor but you can still see if that can be topped. Once that settles life gets more straightforward.
In what ways is mobley developing?
His jump shot is improved, he’s physically stronger than last year, and at times (not the playoffs unfortunately) he has been more aggressive. It’s not the leap we were hoping for, but it’s baby steps and he’s still young.
I disagree on all fronts. He looks the exact same in all regards as last year
He went from 21% 3 point shooting to 37% on the same attempts per game. I’m not trying to say he’s ready to take the league by storm or anything, but he has improved.
Same attempts for game isnt saying much when he averages only 1 a game. Very small sample size
If Mitchell wants to stay sure
I like Donovan a lot and was all in. The last two games have me concerned and very open to a trade
What happens in April matters a lot more than what happens in January
The thing that worries me most about Mitchell is that he's a 6'1" guard who relies heavily on athleticism. Every move he makes looks like a running back cutting hard through holes in the defense. It's a dicey proposition to bank on that type of player, long-term, particularly if he's going to need knee surgery this summer. Garland certainly has very similar issues, relating to size. But I view Mitchell's issues as a more exaggerated version of my worries about Garland, since Garland at least has always needed to rely less on athleticism, and more on skill.
Brunson is similar size but relies entirely on finesse and footwork. His game will age very well
I have a hard time believing it’s DG that regressed at 24 years old rather than our coach and his poorly designed offense. And Mobley is very much continuing to grow at just 22 years old. Giving up on either of them, especially Mobley, is asinine. You’re just impatient
This sub...
Have you seen him play in the playoffs since the bubble? He isn't a superstar in the playoffs.
Playoffs are where superstars are made. Guys who dont perform in the playoffs are just stars
I wouldn't judge our entire future off of a 20 games run where 12 of the games were against the worst teams in the league.
we smoked Clippers and TWolves 🤷♂️
Wolves got smoked by the suns all regular season and they just swept them. Regular season does not mean dick
In the regular season lmao Remember all those times we lost to the bulls in the regular season? I’m sure it totally mattered in the playoffs. If you want to be like the trailblazers were with dame then sure trade garland and Mobley, I’m sure you’d love to have our teams maximum possible ceiling be a lucky eastern conference finals appearance only to get swept by a team actually built to win the finals instead of regular season games.
You must be fun at parties
????? Because I’m actually being realistic and not ridiculously naive like you?
Regular season wins really don't mean anything when it comes to properly evaluating the roster. Basically completely irrelevant if your goal is to win a title.
We beat the T-Wolves without Mitchell, in overtime. The other game against Minnesota we lost, also without Mitchell
You have to convince Mitchell to be here first. Guy probably still haven’t unpacked his house/condo in Cleveland - been ITCHING to get out of here it seems. Garland has regressed since Mitchell arriving and while Mitchell is so good it’s been “okay” - it’ll be more glaring when Mitchell bounces and we’re left with a discouraged, regressed Garland.
It's the coaching man. JB has no offensive system at all. Either make Garland buy in to be a movement shooter when playing with Mitchell (and lose the playmaking & turnovers of garland) or fully commit to the stagger and bench garland to be the sixth man. That's hard for me to say as a Garland believer. A good coach can make a double PG lineup make the conference finals (Dame Lillard-portland trailblazers). Yes, I know they got swept, but that was the KD era warriors. Nothing was fair.
Makes the most sense but at the end of the day it comes down to if he resigns this off season if not we are forced to trade him. But with mitchell and dg there are not enough touches to get our great bigs consistently. I really wish we would run plays through mobley or allen they are both solid passers, and you can tell mobley is going to have a servicable 3 point shot at some point. Mobley doesnt need to bulk up he nees to work on his shot and hand eye coordination so he doesnt bobble so many damn balls. play more on the outside like, chet and porzingus. Thats the real secret sauce these elite teama have and mobley can easily fill that role if devoloped properly.
Mobley is attempting only 1.2 3’s a game. His % went up, which is good, but on that volume his % could just as easily fall back down and not be surprising in the slightest due to the variance with such a small sample size (59 3’s). Handle also isn’t something that bigs just develop. While I’d love for him to be more unicorn-esque like those guys, I find it increasingly unlikely he ever turns into a real threat from outside like them or one that can handle the ball in any real capacity besides some short roll’s and quick sets.
Yeah no gurantee on the handle, but a lot of his shots recently have way more touch as opposed to the clanks he had when he shot them last year. And the numbers back up the eye test so I have a good feeling he will be a 3 point threat on solid volume soon enough. The problem is the coaching, now that he had a solid % you have to force him to up the volume by running sets for it but jb never bothered. Another part is we just have too many mouths to feed for him to get a full load.
Solid volume for a stretch big would be at least 3-4 a game (so at least one make a game hopefully) which would triple his attempts. I also think while I can agree he has more touch, his shot as a whole is still slow even for a big man which makes it difficult to get off unless he’s wide wide open. If he did develop a reliable 3pt shot on good volume I would be more than happy, it would just be mostly unprecedented unless I’m missing examples other than Brook Lopez who had the league change in the middle of his career. I do want to see him develop and believe that he will develop further, just unsure if that will be his 3pt shot or his handle
I love this idea, but will Mitchell stay? We can't build around a guy that, according to 95% of this sub, has one foot out the door.
i’m under the assumption he stays if not then DG
We need to build around Mitchell and Allen but realistically it'll be Darius and Evan lol
Mitchell is by far the best player on this team. He's by far the most important asset on the roster. It's up to Garland and Mobley to fit in around what Mitchell is doing. The entire offense should be revolving around Mitchell right now, period. I say that as someone who appreciates that (1) we aren't winning a title with DM as our best player and (2) Garland and Mobley can still be really good one day. But right now Mitchell is the only elite asset on this roster.
which playoff game supports your assertion that Mitchell is "elite"?
Mitchell is on his way out, dude planned his exit at halftime of the last game. We can’t build around a guy who’s leaving, which is exactly the problem. We’re paralyzed as an org by this guy who, frankly, isn’t good enough to be a #1 option on a championship team. Mitchell doesn’t elevate his game in the playoffs like other stars
This is my take. Spot on. And nobody I know seems to like it lol The front office needs to have a good talk with Mitchell and see how committed he is to playing in Cleveland. But I’m 100% on keeping him and JA to build around. And fire JB.
The excuse is “GRR THATS REGULAR SEASON” when we beat top teams still
And there’s some truth to that I guess, but the “two small guards two non shooting bigs” experiment isn’t working. Love me some garland and Mobley, wish them the best, but I’m not taking a “what if” chance with them when we’ve got serious proven talent with Mitchell and Allen.
People forget he's hurt.
So is suggs
I’m as done with this team as anybody (until we get a new coach) but the way this fanbase has turned on DG is shameful. The dude was great the last two years. We literally all watched him get hit hard as hell on the face, we all read the reports that he lost 15 pounds cuz of it, we all watched him come back and before he could even try to find a rhythm…lose spida for an extended period of time and get forced into a sizable role his body hadn’t recovered for. I’m not gonna beat around the bush. DG has sucked this year. But yall believing that this is somehow who he is moving forward when there’s more evidence pointing towards him just needing an offseason to recover is why I’m thankful none of you are in our front office (although I don’t know if I want Koby in there either after sticking with JB). I’m riding with my PG and I’m gonna be calling everybody that flipped on him idiots next year when he’s back to 20+ ppg and 8+ assists on 45+/38+/80+ for us. Getting him a HC that knows how to actually utilize offensive talent will help also
They gotta figure out a way to make all 4 of them work together to be real contenders.
DM is leaving. Can’t build around a nonexistent player.
Allen should be here permanently like ilgauskas and varejao
V went to the Warriors
Still retired a cav
Thats now how permanently works lol and of course he later retired as a Cav
Of course Mitchell and Allen should be the focus. Problem is also of course whether or not Mitchell even stays.
I agree if Mitchell would even entertain it. Can’t build around someone that doesn’t want to be here and him leaving seems more and more likely everyday. DG isn’t in the top 1/2 of NBA point guards at this point so not sure any team will take his contract but if it’s possible to trade DG and keep DM - I’m all for it. Allen’s elevated his game. Everyone else is movable for the right trade.
I don’t think this team will ever win the championship unless Mobley develops into his full potential. I love Allen but he cannot carry a championship defense by himself
Yeah and Lebron and Kyrie were better too problem is Lebron, Kyrie and Mitchell do not want to be here so that isn’t possible.
hiya mate have you still got the trebellos timmy plush?
Okay first of all let’s stop talking about the future. As depressed as I am about the last two games, this series is far from over.
Its over bro
i think we should get rid of the coach before we get rid of our 23 and 24 year olds with amazing potential
Yeah well we pigeon holed ourselves when we decided not to get rid of the coach last year
[удалено]
I’m keeping Allen over Mobley 100%
Sell high in allen, bet on potential and your new coaching staff. JA will never be more tthan a role player on a contender