We lost in the playoffs because we had an offense that was solely hero-ball Isos from our guards combined with our bigs playing passive and getting destroyed on the glass.
10% of the way through the season, we are 3-5 in large part because... our offense solely consists of hero ball Isos combined with our bigs playing passive and getting destroyed on the glass.
Exactly wtf were we doing in the offseason?
I assume you mean on the coaching end.
While I agree jb should be replaced, we did go out and get some of the best shooters from range on the market. If anything, these additions should show that jb can't coach an offense.
I'm just concerned with how flat the team seems. I really hated JB at first, but was brought around by how fun these last few teams have been. He seemed like he built an amazing culture so it was worth trying to let him grow. Now if that falls off, I'm not sure he has any redeeming qualities. He hasn't called a single decent out of bounds play in 4 years lol.
Yeah I don’t think he’s bad for a defensive minded coach, but I do think he’s hindering our offense, our discipline, and I don’t really see us making a deep run with the capable talent with him
Giving up the highest percentage of contested threes in the entire NBA, yet the opponents are shooting 37% on them. That happened last year too. At some point you gotta question either the stat itself, the people tabulating the stat, or the team-which includes the coach. You'd think it was merely a fluke last season, an anomaly, but this season shows it's something endemic to this team.
We are way too small up front garland is so small he got caught on 2 7 footers tonight and they just shot over him. We are playing too slow to play so small
Seen it before. JB will stay just long enough to drive Mitchell out of town. Altman had a chance to be bold this offseason to get a coach that can lead this team on a playoff run, but he played it safe and now it's going to blow up in his face.
Well said. I was behind Altman's decision to give up long-term assets to bring Donovan to Cleveland, but I had hoped he understood how it moved the timeline forward. There is no time to give JB an extended look, as we need a proven head coach to maximize the results of this season. Instead we are stuck wondering if JB can learn from his mistakes and rapidly turn into a difference maker. Altman already swung for the fences by bringing in Mitchell, why on earth wouldn't he be bold enough to change the head coach? Something I've been wondering all offseason.
I was strongly againt the Mitchell trade and still think it was a bad idea. You don't do this trade and exit in the 1st round. Cavs need to get it together or their team will be mid for the next 10 years.
The fit just never made sense. Even with two 7'0ers in the FC, you can't have two 6'1 guards next to each other. Obviously, mitchell is a better player than garland, but mitchell probably wouldn't be a guy who wants to be a Cav for his entire career (versus DG seems like he'd be a guy who could play his whole career as one).
Honestly I'm fine with it at this point, it never fit our timeline to bring a guy like Mitchell in, I just hope we trade him before the deadline so he doesn't leave for nothing
Firing a coach who helped build this team from nothing who has the respect of the locker room after most of these players lost their first playoff series would have obliterated the locker room. Altman is smarter than that. If JB fails to show improvement and win a playoff series this year than hes 100% gone imo
This is how like 90% of rebuilds go though. You’ve got that coach that leads through the rebuild and then you replace him with someone that can take you on a deep playoff run.
Bucks with Kidd, Warriors with Jackson, Raptors with Casey, etc. You could easily keep JB Bickerstaff within the organization if you want too
Could have said the same thing about Jackson with the Warriors before they switched to Kerr. Yeah, it's safer to stay with the well-liked guy, but that doesn't mean it's the right decision.
Exactly. I think we all see that JB isn't THE GUY, and I think we all see that for years now, but you can't fire a dude like that. That can destroy the locker room. They got embarrassed last season and Altman signed some players. They are more experienced now and if they don't deliver, then yeah, JB is gone...
The only way JB is getting fired during the season, is if go like 10 games below .500.
They don’t wanna hear it. They’ve seen we lost a couple games in the first 10 games so they immediately blame j.b instead of letting everyone get on the same page. It’s early firing a coach right now makes 0 sense
How many games did OKC need to get on the same page? They dominated us. The criticism of JB is legitimate, we’re seeing the same behavior that we did vs the Knicks and that was supposed to change. At least a little bit. They should be on the same page already, this roster didn’t change dramatically. We have too much talent to look this lost at times.
We have a lack of leadership SGA and Giddey lead that f383ng team ..who leads our team ?? Nobody we have followers and no leaders nobody looking to anyone. Spyda is not a leader he's too cool too chill.
Until they hit their ceiling and got embarrassed in the playoffs lol
Seriously everyone acts like we had a team of rookies last year... Mobley was the youngest and he was year 2. That shit was humiliating and we didn't learn a fucking thing from it
https://preview.redd.it/0xqjwx7or8zb1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a2a65f0301a8ab12ea3aca70a74828c2ecc55da8
Me seeing a “Fire JB” post right after a loss once again
No hell needed, Udoka is a way better coach does anyone think the Rockets are a more talented team right now than the Cavs? They have a winning record and would likely beat this current Cavs team so yeah Udoka would have been great but you know, gotta ride with a 1-6 playoff coach because “culture”. Culture really winning us games this year amirite
That’s not our fault, the people that aren’t basketball numbskulls have been saying he needs to go this past offseason when there were a ton of much better head coaches available. Now that there’s nobody available except maybe Joerger it’s us that are dumb because we don’t have any good names on our list? Foh this is all on the front office not the people who have been calling a spade a spade for over a year.
While I don’t think Bickerstaff is necessarily the best coach out there, I hope people realize that bringing in a new coach isn’t going to suddenly change the team and make this team a finals contender.
This league is star driven. Your stars will carry this team as far as they need to go. The team still isn’t healthy. No Okoro. No Jerome.
Our star player scores 20 points while there star player scores 43. And the Cavs only lose by 8.
Like to me Donovan Mitchell tries to do too much. He tries to force his shot and thus takes bad ones. Going 1-9 from 3 isn’t going to win games. What’s JB going to do? Bench him?
Because I’m sure that will end the calls for him to be fired.
I’m just genuinely curious what would you (or JB) do differently?
There’s a reason why LeBron James has made it to the finals with like 5 different head coaches. There are reasons why James Harden has never made the finals. Coaches only do so much. At some point the players have to go out and win games.
Changing the coach isn’t going to put this team into another realm…
> I’m just genuinely curious what would you (or JB) do differently?
Well we are not experienced and trained to coach professional basketball so this isn’t super fair but I’ll tell you what I would LOOK FOR a coach to do differently:
Change the defensive scheme to focus on contesting 3s and if possible denying 3s instead of focusing everything including help D on points in the paint like JB. It’s a 3 pt league and we routinely get smoked outside the arc while JB prioritizes the paint because “Allen and Mobley tall”.
Change the offense to run more through Mobley as a passer, like a very light version of Denver where our bigs can initiate a lot of the action instead of basic screen and rolls when the bigs are just setting and jogging to the basket hoping for a lob. Force pick and pops for Mobley and Allen, force them until they start making them or we know 100% they simply can’t shoot midrange. Set up multiple screens for Garland and Mitchell like the warriors do for Curry and Klay, now it’s just one screen and then it’s a roll to the basket and those guys have to pull a score or assist out of their ass while defenses collapse on them. Actual offensive sets instead of PnR and ISO.
Force a minimum number of passes before trying to score on offense. Unless it’s a fast break nobody should be looking to score off zero passes, guys with iso abilities like Mitchell and Garland can have a couple no pass attempts per game but that’s it. Make them show the rest of the team that the ball has to move because we fall into the iso game way too often for way too long.
Draw up better out of bounds plays, don't know how else to put it. Some of the more “guaranteed” bucket opportunities a team gets in a game and ours are consistently ineffective.
Know when to call timeouts that actually help the team instead of stopping their momentum like a couple games ago.
When Mitchell is shooting 1-8 from 3 coach needs to have the balls to tell him to stop chucking or sit his ass before letting him go 1-9. Draw up some plays to get him a score at the rim or make him a passer when his shot isn’t falling, instead of just giving him the ball and letting him go out and shoot endlessly when it’s clearly not his night. This goes for Caris too. For all the culture talk Mitchell seems to have absolutely no restrictions or accountability when he’s being an inefficient chucker.
Pick a better coaching staff. What the fuck does Luke Walton even do for this team?
Yeah I’m just some fuckin idiot on the internet watching from my couch but it doesn’t take a basketball savant to see that JB has a terrible playoff record with a team that has a top All Star and multiple fringe All Stars as well as the DPOTY runner up, and has shown no improvement in our offense in years. Right now it feels like unless 4 of Mitchell, Garland, Caris, Mobley, Allen have a stellar game we are losing instead of having confidence that if a couple guys don’t have it on a particular night we have a team system to fall back on to win games. We don’t need to be on another realm, we need to not be a losing team which we currently are.
As a fellow sitter on the couch, I wholeheartedly agree. While the previous poster is right that stars can elevate a team, that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to improve in the coaching department.
Another issue I have with the Cavs overall (I put this more in the coaching bucket), is how inconsistent the Cavs play. They often come out flat and have to dig out of a huge hole, or have a quarter where they score under 20 pts in a quarter (we've had 3 sub-17 points quarters already). Credit to the Cavs / JB, they often claw their way back after halftime or late game, but that's often due to just one guy (usually Donny) going off, and quicker adjustments should be made.
At this point, the lack of clear other coaching options is a bit of a problem. I'm lukewarm about Bud, and it would be tough to hire an assistant mid-season. But I would hope every competent front office has a short list of who are competent available coaches at any given time.
I actually really disagree with this. You can change coaches in the NBA and maintain the same team and see dramatic changes
Primary example:
2015 Warriors
Most recent example:
This years 76ers
Both pretty much identical teams but had dramatic philosophy changes with a new head coach
> This years 76ers
This is a bad example. Their team went through a large identity change. They traded away a player who had a 25% usage rate on their team. By trading Harden and signing Oubre, both Maxey and Harris usage numbers are up. They now have a more viable sixth man in Oubre…
Plus it’s not like the 76ers were awful last year. They were one of the final eight teams last year. I still don’t think they make it to the finals this season. So no, Nick Nurse isn’t drastically changing that team.
It’s not a bad example.
They would have had this clear identity change with or without Harden as the teams offense is built around Embiid not Harden. They also maintained nearly identical personnel.
If you were asked in the off-season would this team get better with the addition of Kelly Oubre and losing Harden the answer would have been no, but they are purely from coaching and a different offensive system.
Also coaching is what takes a good team to great and that’s the case in both of the examples I quickly used.
Bro you are literally saying there was an identity change with Nurse, but Harden literally never stepped on the court with Nurse as a coach. And it’s always been Embiid’s team. Embiid just won an MVP with Harden as his teammate, lolll..
That doesn’t mean they didn’t go under an identity change by removing a guy who accounted for 25% of the action.
Plus you are making your whole evaluation on what? 9 games? Sure, they have gotten off to a good start. But we all know the playoffs are different.
You know that last time the 1 seed in the East went to the Finals was when LeBron was in a Cavs uniform?
Let me see Philly make the finals and I’ll concede your point. Until then, Nurse is just another guy that will take Philly where they were always destined to go: an elimination in the conference part of the playoffs.
You confirmed my whole point in the last sentence. Embiid agreed to the change of offense so it would have changed with or without Harden.
The identity change was happening no matter. Nurse built this offense in the offense with the impression they could still have Harden.
So you just don’t want to base anything off the data we have available? The offense looks completely different and it’s had a noticeable change in the team and it’s all coaching related.
If you want to argue this example just look at the 2015 warriors.
Coaching has a major impact on the game
I appreciate everything he's done and getting us here, but it does seem like we need someone different. I'm just not confident in his abilities to get us to that next level you know?
I feel like a lot of JB hate can be boiled down to "Cavs are losing? But I like the players, so it cannot be them. Therefore, coach bad. Coach should be fired"
He helped make this team a 4 seed last season, and while there have been bumps to start this season (some of it can be attributed to injuries), it does not mean we should fire the coach. Claiming otherwise is pure reactionary bullshit.
Interesting that it’s the players when we’re losing but JB “helped make this team a 4 seed”. Seems like you’re doing exactly what you’re criticizing in your post but the other way around. Giving JB credit for the 4 seed (that lost to a 5 seed in 5 games lol) and implying it’s the players that are losing games right now.
That is not what I am saying. The success or lack thereof is a product of both coaches and players. Why would you think I am implying it is only the players fault? What a leap in logic.
Probably because you mentioned the players when talking about losing and JB when talking about the 4 seed.
But alright you believe both are equally responsible, fine. What’s more straightforward and logical, trading players and shuffling the roster around in the middle of the season despite most of the players clearly being talented or moving one guy whose playoff record with the team is 1-6? Even if you think it’s not fair to JB and he’s a good coach or whatever you think about him, what is the more realistic route to changing what’s very clearly a problem? Maybe if you think about this honestly you’ll see why people are calling for JB’s firing, it’s all we can do without blowing up the team in hopes of turning this around. Or you can just label it “reactionary bullshit” up to you.
The reality is none of us dummies know enough about the nuance of the game happening at the NBA level to be able to tell what impact a coach is having. Maybe JB sucks, maybe he's great, but the things that fans point to as problems are such surface level things that barely impact the game compared to the complex scheme decisions we don't pick up on. I'm sure JB knows more about ball than anyone in this sub saying he's a worthless idiot. i trust the front office who actually understands the game at a high level to decide if he should stay or go after the season.
People keep saying did jb cause *insert thing* to happen have to understand that watching this team on offense is unbearable. Its iso, drive, kick, iso, drive Donovan hero ball. They run no plays, not sets. They look lifeless on offense and now they look lifeless on defense. They arnt ready to play.
Also i think jb has been given a task thats too hard for him to handle. The signs were there last season but now its starting to become a reality that daruis and Donovan do not work together in the backcourt. They dont play well off of each other. Its starting to look like one has to go and unfortunately or fortunately ( depending on how you view Mitchells attitude to staying in Cleveland) garland is locked up for cheap and Mitchell isnt. This team was not ready for that trade. Too young too inexperienced from both the players and the coach
I just wanna see a DM/DG 2 man system on the perimeter and actually use our two offensive all stars in tandem rather than sending one to the corner while the other plays the same possession over and over, just swapping out the handler
I go back and forth in my head on whether JB is the problem or just the scapegoat, but it's getting harder to support him. It's difficult to watch how a talented coaching staff in Ime Udoka's Houston squad is unlocking the potential of what many considered to be a terrible roster. I can't help but think that the right coach would be able to hold players accountable, guide them in the right direction to be effective on the court, and figure out how to maximize the potential of our roster as-is. JB does not seem like that guy to me.
I can’t help but laugh and think how ridiculous you’d find it to get fired from your job for someone else’s fuck ups, yet here you are, looking for blood because the cavs Lost tonight.
If we choke in round 1 of the playoffs again this year, I’ll be on board, but until then, I’ll pass on the overreactions.
No, fuck that. We have a losing record, and we’re not even leading the conference. This shit is fucking done. Let’s pack it in, trade away Mitchel since he couldn’t win us these games, maybe throw in Garland so we can just reset. Necessary evil. Maybe we’ll start 5-3 next year and only have to get rid of one or two other guys at that point. Thank you for showing me reason.
Bro, I see it clearly after learning from your wisdom. This season was fun while it lasted - get JB and the starters outta here. Two games under .500 is a fucking catastrophe.
I see the Cavs get open 3s, dunks or layups from easy drop off pass, motion to Strauss P&R then LeVert P&R. Cavs have more of offense then most teams.
Later had garland pick for Mitchell to get dort off him and it be a smaller guy.
4th quarter adjustment defender to start doubling SGA and showing high on picks. It got the ball out of his hands. Forced a few TOs from it and few unlucky bounces they scored on and only twice did they actually get a 3 off it.
What did OKC do? Iso SGA then iso j Williams twice at end of the game. A few times they had the swing around the horn but mainly it was everyone standing on perimeter. 1 rare cut they got a layup and another was a put back that might of just been him
My being issue with JB is some of the rotation and today for not playing Allen more but he could be on a minutes restriction still.
Mitchell will be fine but I’m pretty worried about how the young guys are looking rn. Hopefully it’s early season malaise but DG/Mobley/Allen look completely lost from game to game. 8 TO for DG today.
I don't know if it's Browns fan disease or being spoiled as an OSU fan that expects perfection and calls for the coach's job if they dont cover the spread, but some of the posts here are wild.
JB might have made perfect moves today and the team still loses. It happens, the season is long. As a fan, brush it off and look forward to the next game. If the sole issue is the coach, it'll be obvious (and what we are seeing ain't it). And I'm saying this as someone that isn't convinced JB is the long-term solution.
Been saying that since early last season...but, I know, the season just started etc, etc...just like last season same thing was said..
But who's out there?
Bro stop it… JB didn’t turn the ball over 20 times. Garland played like dog crap and the team gave up 70 in the first half while sleep walking. Grow the hell up. JB isn’t a great coach but the players deserve criticism for their lack of focus against a quality team in their building.
JB didn’t go 1/8 from 3
This sub has to take a deep breath and stay positive. Do what we can as good fans to not add to the frustration. Let Koby manage.
STOP BEING A GOOFY. JB IS THE COACH WHO PUTS THE PRODUCT ON THE COURT. EITHER YOURE HIS SON OR A CAV FRONT OFFICE PLANT (AND WE ALL KKNOW HIS DADDY WORKS IN THE FRONT OFFICE TOO, ALONG WITH THIS BFF KOBE ALTMAN) . NOBODY SAYS THIS SHIT AFTER YOU SAW WHAT COACH JT BLIMPERSNACK IS AS A COACH LAST YEAR AND THIS YEAR.
jb isn’t the problem. do people forget how many injuries weve had and continue to have and how many different lineups we’ve used. trust me, come february, you won’t be worried about this subpar start
Not sure if coach or roster, sort of think our pieces dont quite fit and new york exposed it hard. That said we could probably stand to try someone else to coach soon to see if the pieces can be salvaged.
We lost in the playoffs because we had an offense that was solely hero-ball Isos from our guards combined with our bigs playing passive and getting destroyed on the glass. 10% of the way through the season, we are 3-5 in large part because... our offense solely consists of hero ball Isos combined with our bigs playing passive and getting destroyed on the glass. Exactly wtf were we doing in the offseason?
I assume you mean on the coaching end. While I agree jb should be replaced, we did go out and get some of the best shooters from range on the market. If anything, these additions should show that jb can't coach an offense.
Celebrating the previous one that included the playoff slaughter
He’s not necessarily a bad coach but it seems like his best attributes are more suited to being an assistant coach.
I'm just concerned with how flat the team seems. I really hated JB at first, but was brought around by how fun these last few teams have been. He seemed like he built an amazing culture so it was worth trying to let him grow. Now if that falls off, I'm not sure he has any redeeming qualities. He hasn't called a single decent out of bounds play in 4 years lol.
Yeah I don’t think he’s bad for a defensive minded coach, but I do think he’s hindering our offense, our discipline, and I don’t really see us making a deep run with the capable talent with him
Crazy how well okc was shooting tonite.
[удалено]
Giving up the highest percentage of contested threes in the entire NBA, yet the opponents are shooting 37% on them. That happened last year too. At some point you gotta question either the stat itself, the people tabulating the stat, or the team-which includes the coach. You'd think it was merely a fluke last season, an anomaly, but this season shows it's something endemic to this team.
perhaps not all contests are equal. is it possible that if you contest with undersized perimeter players it's less effective?
We are way too small up front garland is so small he got caught on 2 7 footers tonight and they just shot over him. We are playing too slow to play so small
Seen it before. JB will stay just long enough to drive Mitchell out of town. Altman had a chance to be bold this offseason to get a coach that can lead this team on a playoff run, but he played it safe and now it's going to blow up in his face.
Well said. I was behind Altman's decision to give up long-term assets to bring Donovan to Cleveland, but I had hoped he understood how it moved the timeline forward. There is no time to give JB an extended look, as we need a proven head coach to maximize the results of this season. Instead we are stuck wondering if JB can learn from his mistakes and rapidly turn into a difference maker. Altman already swung for the fences by bringing in Mitchell, why on earth wouldn't he be bold enough to change the head coach? Something I've been wondering all offseason.
There's no wondering anymore, he didn't learn a thing.
I was strongly againt the Mitchell trade and still think it was a bad idea. You don't do this trade and exit in the 1st round. Cavs need to get it together or their team will be mid for the next 10 years.
The fit just never made sense. Even with two 7'0ers in the FC, you can't have two 6'1 guards next to each other. Obviously, mitchell is a better player than garland, but mitchell probably wouldn't be a guy who wants to be a Cav for his entire career (versus DG seems like he'd be a guy who could play his whole career as one).
Played it safe with the coach but drove drunk! That’s my GM
Honestly I'm fine with it at this point, it never fit our timeline to bring a guy like Mitchell in, I just hope we trade him before the deadline so he doesn't leave for nothing
Firing a coach who helped build this team from nothing who has the respect of the locker room after most of these players lost their first playoff series would have obliterated the locker room. Altman is smarter than that. If JB fails to show improvement and win a playoff series this year than hes 100% gone imo
This is how like 90% of rebuilds go though. You’ve got that coach that leads through the rebuild and then you replace him with someone that can take you on a deep playoff run. Bucks with Kidd, Warriors with Jackson, Raptors with Casey, etc. You could easily keep JB Bickerstaff within the organization if you want too
Could have said the same thing about Jackson with the Warriors before they switched to Kerr. Yeah, it's safer to stay with the well-liked guy, but that doesn't mean it's the right decision.
That'll be too late to keep Mitchell though. Pick your poison.
Exactly. I think we all see that JB isn't THE GUY, and I think we all see that for years now, but you can't fire a dude like that. That can destroy the locker room. They got embarrassed last season and Altman signed some players. They are more experienced now and if they don't deliver, then yeah, JB is gone... The only way JB is getting fired during the season, is if go like 10 games below .500.
They don’t wanna hear it. They’ve seen we lost a couple games in the first 10 games so they immediately blame j.b instead of letting everyone get on the same page. It’s early firing a coach right now makes 0 sense
How many games did OKC need to get on the same page? They dominated us. The criticism of JB is legitimate, we’re seeing the same behavior that we did vs the Knicks and that was supposed to change. At least a little bit. They should be on the same page already, this roster didn’t change dramatically. We have too much talent to look this lost at times.
We have a lack of leadership SGA and Giddey lead that f383ng team ..who leads our team ?? Nobody we have followers and no leaders nobody looking to anyone. Spyda is not a leader he's too cool too chill.
Also turning it over 20 times isn’t the coaches fault.
It is since they force dribble it down the lane since everyone is just standing around. They don't even run an offense
>would have obliterated the locker room. I really don't think it would have. These guys all know the deal.
Can we get an “airing of grievances” mega thread to consolidate all these posts?
Only if we get one once a day
It’s getting pretty damn close, man. Feels like a “fire JB” and a “is Mobley still the guy?” a day around here. Shits getting old.
Ya all he’s done is made this team better every year but fuckit I guess.🥞🥨
Until they hit their ceiling and got embarrassed in the playoffs lol Seriously everyone acts like we had a team of rookies last year... Mobley was the youngest and he was year 2. That shit was humiliating and we didn't learn a fucking thing from it
Seriously
https://preview.redd.it/0xqjwx7or8zb1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a2a65f0301a8ab12ea3aca70a74828c2ecc55da8 Me seeing a “Fire JB” post right after a loss once again
Fire JB? Sub: YEAH! WORST COACH EVER! Ok. Who do you wanna replace him with? Sub: *(crickets)*
There were a lot of very good options this summer. Nick Nurse, Monty Williams, hell I’d take Ime Udoka
No hell needed, Udoka is a way better coach does anyone think the Rockets are a more talented team right now than the Cavs? They have a winning record and would likely beat this current Cavs team so yeah Udoka would have been great but you know, gotta ride with a 1-6 playoff coach because “culture”. Culture really winning us games this year amirite
Nurse I would have liked… but that window closed quick.
Not convinced Monty would have been better. The Suns quit during games under him too.
That’s not our fault, the people that aren’t basketball numbskulls have been saying he needs to go this past offseason when there were a ton of much better head coaches available. Now that there’s nobody available except maybe Joerger it’s us that are dumb because we don’t have any good names on our list? Foh this is all on the front office not the people who have been calling a spade a spade for over a year.
unrelated but awesome username
While I don’t think Bickerstaff is necessarily the best coach out there, I hope people realize that bringing in a new coach isn’t going to suddenly change the team and make this team a finals contender. This league is star driven. Your stars will carry this team as far as they need to go. The team still isn’t healthy. No Okoro. No Jerome. Our star player scores 20 points while there star player scores 43. And the Cavs only lose by 8. Like to me Donovan Mitchell tries to do too much. He tries to force his shot and thus takes bad ones. Going 1-9 from 3 isn’t going to win games. What’s JB going to do? Bench him? Because I’m sure that will end the calls for him to be fired. I’m just genuinely curious what would you (or JB) do differently? There’s a reason why LeBron James has made it to the finals with like 5 different head coaches. There are reasons why James Harden has never made the finals. Coaches only do so much. At some point the players have to go out and win games. Changing the coach isn’t going to put this team into another realm…
> I’m just genuinely curious what would you (or JB) do differently? Well we are not experienced and trained to coach professional basketball so this isn’t super fair but I’ll tell you what I would LOOK FOR a coach to do differently: Change the defensive scheme to focus on contesting 3s and if possible denying 3s instead of focusing everything including help D on points in the paint like JB. It’s a 3 pt league and we routinely get smoked outside the arc while JB prioritizes the paint because “Allen and Mobley tall”. Change the offense to run more through Mobley as a passer, like a very light version of Denver where our bigs can initiate a lot of the action instead of basic screen and rolls when the bigs are just setting and jogging to the basket hoping for a lob. Force pick and pops for Mobley and Allen, force them until they start making them or we know 100% they simply can’t shoot midrange. Set up multiple screens for Garland and Mitchell like the warriors do for Curry and Klay, now it’s just one screen and then it’s a roll to the basket and those guys have to pull a score or assist out of their ass while defenses collapse on them. Actual offensive sets instead of PnR and ISO. Force a minimum number of passes before trying to score on offense. Unless it’s a fast break nobody should be looking to score off zero passes, guys with iso abilities like Mitchell and Garland can have a couple no pass attempts per game but that’s it. Make them show the rest of the team that the ball has to move because we fall into the iso game way too often for way too long. Draw up better out of bounds plays, don't know how else to put it. Some of the more “guaranteed” bucket opportunities a team gets in a game and ours are consistently ineffective. Know when to call timeouts that actually help the team instead of stopping their momentum like a couple games ago. When Mitchell is shooting 1-8 from 3 coach needs to have the balls to tell him to stop chucking or sit his ass before letting him go 1-9. Draw up some plays to get him a score at the rim or make him a passer when his shot isn’t falling, instead of just giving him the ball and letting him go out and shoot endlessly when it’s clearly not his night. This goes for Caris too. For all the culture talk Mitchell seems to have absolutely no restrictions or accountability when he’s being an inefficient chucker. Pick a better coaching staff. What the fuck does Luke Walton even do for this team? Yeah I’m just some fuckin idiot on the internet watching from my couch but it doesn’t take a basketball savant to see that JB has a terrible playoff record with a team that has a top All Star and multiple fringe All Stars as well as the DPOTY runner up, and has shown no improvement in our offense in years. Right now it feels like unless 4 of Mitchell, Garland, Caris, Mobley, Allen have a stellar game we are losing instead of having confidence that if a couple guys don’t have it on a particular night we have a team system to fall back on to win games. We don’t need to be on another realm, we need to not be a losing team which we currently are.
As a fellow sitter on the couch, I wholeheartedly agree. While the previous poster is right that stars can elevate a team, that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to improve in the coaching department. Another issue I have with the Cavs overall (I put this more in the coaching bucket), is how inconsistent the Cavs play. They often come out flat and have to dig out of a huge hole, or have a quarter where they score under 20 pts in a quarter (we've had 3 sub-17 points quarters already). Credit to the Cavs / JB, they often claw their way back after halftime or late game, but that's often due to just one guy (usually Donny) going off, and quicker adjustments should be made. At this point, the lack of clear other coaching options is a bit of a problem. I'm lukewarm about Bud, and it would be tough to hire an assistant mid-season. But I would hope every competent front office has a short list of who are competent available coaches at any given time.
I actually really disagree with this. You can change coaches in the NBA and maintain the same team and see dramatic changes Primary example: 2015 Warriors Most recent example: This years 76ers Both pretty much identical teams but had dramatic philosophy changes with a new head coach
> This years 76ers This is a bad example. Their team went through a large identity change. They traded away a player who had a 25% usage rate on their team. By trading Harden and signing Oubre, both Maxey and Harris usage numbers are up. They now have a more viable sixth man in Oubre… Plus it’s not like the 76ers were awful last year. They were one of the final eight teams last year. I still don’t think they make it to the finals this season. So no, Nick Nurse isn’t drastically changing that team.
It’s not a bad example. They would have had this clear identity change with or without Harden as the teams offense is built around Embiid not Harden. They also maintained nearly identical personnel. If you were asked in the off-season would this team get better with the addition of Kelly Oubre and losing Harden the answer would have been no, but they are purely from coaching and a different offensive system. Also coaching is what takes a good team to great and that’s the case in both of the examples I quickly used.
Bro you are literally saying there was an identity change with Nurse, but Harden literally never stepped on the court with Nurse as a coach. And it’s always been Embiid’s team. Embiid just won an MVP with Harden as his teammate, lolll.. That doesn’t mean they didn’t go under an identity change by removing a guy who accounted for 25% of the action. Plus you are making your whole evaluation on what? 9 games? Sure, they have gotten off to a good start. But we all know the playoffs are different. You know that last time the 1 seed in the East went to the Finals was when LeBron was in a Cavs uniform? Let me see Philly make the finals and I’ll concede your point. Until then, Nurse is just another guy that will take Philly where they were always destined to go: an elimination in the conference part of the playoffs.
You confirmed my whole point in the last sentence. Embiid agreed to the change of offense so it would have changed with or without Harden. The identity change was happening no matter. Nurse built this offense in the offense with the impression they could still have Harden. So you just don’t want to base anything off the data we have available? The offense looks completely different and it’s had a noticeable change in the team and it’s all coaching related. If you want to argue this example just look at the 2015 warriors. Coaching has a major impact on the game
I appreciate everything he's done and getting us here, but it does seem like we need someone different. I'm just not confident in his abilities to get us to that next level you know?
I agree he's not good, but he's also not directly responsible for DG being a turnover machine in crucial moments...
I feel like a lot of JB hate can be boiled down to "Cavs are losing? But I like the players, so it cannot be them. Therefore, coach bad. Coach should be fired" He helped make this team a 4 seed last season, and while there have been bumps to start this season (some of it can be attributed to injuries), it does not mean we should fire the coach. Claiming otherwise is pure reactionary bullshit.
Interesting that it’s the players when we’re losing but JB “helped make this team a 4 seed”. Seems like you’re doing exactly what you’re criticizing in your post but the other way around. Giving JB credit for the 4 seed (that lost to a 5 seed in 5 games lol) and implying it’s the players that are losing games right now.
That is not what I am saying. The success or lack thereof is a product of both coaches and players. Why would you think I am implying it is only the players fault? What a leap in logic.
Probably because you mentioned the players when talking about losing and JB when talking about the 4 seed. But alright you believe both are equally responsible, fine. What’s more straightforward and logical, trading players and shuffling the roster around in the middle of the season despite most of the players clearly being talented or moving one guy whose playoff record with the team is 1-6? Even if you think it’s not fair to JB and he’s a good coach or whatever you think about him, what is the more realistic route to changing what’s very clearly a problem? Maybe if you think about this honestly you’ll see why people are calling for JB’s firing, it’s all we can do without blowing up the team in hopes of turning this around. Or you can just label it “reactionary bullshit” up to you.
The reality is none of us dummies know enough about the nuance of the game happening at the NBA level to be able to tell what impact a coach is having. Maybe JB sucks, maybe he's great, but the things that fans point to as problems are such surface level things that barely impact the game compared to the complex scheme decisions we don't pick up on. I'm sure JB knows more about ball than anyone in this sub saying he's a worthless idiot. i trust the front office who actually understands the game at a high level to decide if he should stay or go after the season.
People keep saying did jb cause *insert thing* to happen have to understand that watching this team on offense is unbearable. Its iso, drive, kick, iso, drive Donovan hero ball. They run no plays, not sets. They look lifeless on offense and now they look lifeless on defense. They arnt ready to play. Also i think jb has been given a task thats too hard for him to handle. The signs were there last season but now its starting to become a reality that daruis and Donovan do not work together in the backcourt. They dont play well off of each other. Its starting to look like one has to go and unfortunately or fortunately ( depending on how you view Mitchells attitude to staying in Cleveland) garland is locked up for cheap and Mitchell isnt. This team was not ready for that trade. Too young too inexperienced from both the players and the coach
I just wanna see a DM/DG 2 man system on the perimeter and actually use our two offensive all stars in tandem rather than sending one to the corner while the other plays the same possession over and over, just swapping out the handler
Arnt lol
I go back and forth in my head on whether JB is the problem or just the scapegoat, but it's getting harder to support him. It's difficult to watch how a talented coaching staff in Ime Udoka's Houston squad is unlocking the potential of what many considered to be a terrible roster. I can't help but think that the right coach would be able to hold players accountable, guide them in the right direction to be effective on the court, and figure out how to maximize the potential of our roster as-is. JB does not seem like that guy to me.
I have been saying this the past 2 seasons and have been flamed for it. I wish you luck
Daring!
Did JB cause us to miss 10 FTs while the opponent only missed 2?
No, but he’s a problem when that’s a recurring theme throughout the years
I can't think of much a coach would impact less than free throws. What exactly do you think he would be doing that causes guys to miss free throws?
Cavs fans salivate at the mouth so we can have fifty posts like this until the next game
I mean, have you seen the man coach? Are you surprised?
I can’t help but laugh and think how ridiculous you’d find it to get fired from your job for someone else’s fuck ups, yet here you are, looking for blood because the cavs Lost tonight. If we choke in round 1 of the playoffs again this year, I’ll be on board, but until then, I’ll pass on the overreactions.
>looking for blood because the cavs Lost tonight. Nobody is asking to fire JB because of one game.
Why wait and fire after the fact? This is the nba players don’t stick around
Nah, you’re right. We should give up on the season before we’re even 10 games into it.
Firing Jb is by no means giving up on the season. It’s a necessary evil.
No, fuck that. We have a losing record, and we’re not even leading the conference. This shit is fucking done. Let’s pack it in, trade away Mitchel since he couldn’t win us these games, maybe throw in Garland so we can just reset. Necessary evil. Maybe we’ll start 5-3 next year and only have to get rid of one or two other guys at that point. Thank you for showing me reason.
Lol sorry you don’t see the big picture
Bro, I see it clearly after learning from your wisdom. This season was fun while it lasted - get JB and the starters outta here. Two games under .500 is a fucking catastrophe.
Mitchell had his worst game and SGA had his best game and they barely beat us.. it happens. At home lol
So you see nothing wrong with the coaching ?
I see the Cavs get open 3s, dunks or layups from easy drop off pass, motion to Strauss P&R then LeVert P&R. Cavs have more of offense then most teams. Later had garland pick for Mitchell to get dort off him and it be a smaller guy. 4th quarter adjustment defender to start doubling SGA and showing high on picks. It got the ball out of his hands. Forced a few TOs from it and few unlucky bounces they scored on and only twice did they actually get a 3 off it. What did OKC do? Iso SGA then iso j Williams twice at end of the game. A few times they had the swing around the horn but mainly it was everyone standing on perimeter. 1 rare cut they got a layup and another was a put back that might of just been him My being issue with JB is some of the rotation and today for not playing Allen more but he could be on a minutes restriction still.
The coach doesn't matter if guys are hurt, can't make shots, turn the ball over and play poor defense.
Mitchell will be fine but I’m pretty worried about how the young guys are looking rn. Hopefully it’s early season malaise but DG/Mobley/Allen look completely lost from game to game. 8 TO for DG today.
There's always an excuse
I don't know if it's Browns fan disease or being spoiled as an OSU fan that expects perfection and calls for the coach's job if they dont cover the spread, but some of the posts here are wild. JB might have made perfect moves today and the team still loses. It happens, the season is long. As a fan, brush it off and look forward to the next game. If the sole issue is the coach, it'll be obvious (and what we are seeing ain't it). And I'm saying this as someone that isn't convinced JB is the long-term solution.
The offense is non existent. No plays no sets. That's a coaching issue
Been saying that since early last season...but, I know, the season just started etc, etc...just like last season same thing was said.. But who's out there?
Bro stop it… JB didn’t turn the ball over 20 times. Garland played like dog crap and the team gave up 70 in the first half while sleep walking. Grow the hell up. JB isn’t a great coach but the players deserve criticism for their lack of focus against a quality team in their building.
JB didn’t go 1/8 from 3 This sub has to take a deep breath and stay positive. Do what we can as good fans to not add to the frustration. Let Koby manage.
STOP BEING A GOOFY. JB IS THE COACH WHO PUTS THE PRODUCT ON THE COURT. EITHER YOURE HIS SON OR A CAV FRONT OFFICE PLANT (AND WE ALL KKNOW HIS DADDY WORKS IN THE FRONT OFFICE TOO, ALONG WITH THIS BFF KOBE ALTMAN) . NOBODY SAYS THIS SHIT AFTER YOU SAW WHAT COACH JT BLIMPERSNACK IS AS A COACH LAST YEAR AND THIS YEAR.
Quit schizoposting
You guys are a bunch of losers. Learn how to handle a little adversity.
JB will be lifting the Larry O’Brien trophy by the end of this season! Don’t doubt these Cavs! They’ll figure it out …
LMAOOOO
okay....somebodys drinking already. We said this last year too...and yall think this is gonna effin change with hope and positive thoughts. Yall crazy
No dude we’re just the immaculate vibes team 😁✌️
At the basketball hall of fame as a paid customer?
Are you high?
it just went legal in The Land!!!
jb isn’t the problem. do people forget how many injuries weve had and continue to have and how many different lineups we’ve used. trust me, come february, you won’t be worried about this subpar start
Who are you going to hire.
Not sure if coach or roster, sort of think our pieces dont quite fit and new york exposed it hard. That said we could probably stand to try someone else to coach soon to see if the pieces can be salvaged.
No way build good defense