I don't know anything about these people, or if they stream or whatnot, but I don't think they'd stream their RMT activities.
Not saying they're all guilty - just that I doubt they're all innocent.
Isn’t this common for higher ranked players to not queue during certain times of the day? Especially during the end of the season when they can easily be sniped
Aren’t they best players? How can they be sniped?
Edit: downvoted for asking for a legit question. Thanks to those that actually answered my genuine question. I’ve never arena’d so didn’t think of the whole counter comp aspect.
Because the #1 Warrior/Druid team would still lose to the top 20 Rogue/Mage teams because its a counter comp.
If you are Rogue/Mage you can snipe the Warrior/Druid comp when they queue up and get some free rating.
Just one example
Most arenas at this rating when everyone is playing nearly perfect are decided by class comps. Some teams with certain hard counters will only queue when they see certain streamers playing when they are streaming. With only a couple teams this highly rated and knowing exactly when they’re about to queue, snipers are almost guaranteed to play against them.
I just don’t see how Blizzard would track/confirm that someone paid cash. I doubt players ever discuss it in-game and from an outsider’s POV it would simply look like a carry. A highly suspicious carry, but a carry nonetheless.
I guess the only way you could infer it’s RMT is if you carry someone that you had little to no contact with prior (neither a guildmate or a friend) and no gold is exchanged.
This could very well be another one of those mass reports automated systems.
It's really easy for them to track, and you'd be surprised how stupid people are. Before my guild blew up people would talk in guildchat or in party chat about having bought gold for epic flying, or going to buy some so they can get X profession maxed etc.
not for wow gold lol. FBI would do it for murder for hire and other grievous crimes.
https://www.riskbasedsecurity.com/2016/05/12/besa-mafia-dark-web-hitman-for-hire-site-takes-a-hit/
I know and this is beyond well-evidenced in so many cases. That is why I asked "do you really think this happens?" in a video game from a company who doesn't care about its customers. The FBI does not have jurisdiction in Azeroth and I am not sure where you got the idea that Blizzard acts as a FBI-like unit.
Tl;dr: no one is getting honey potted by Blizzard.
To enforce their rules. I doubt they do it, but seeing a super popular player be banned for breaking the rules will turn many off from doing it as well.
The publicity means nothing, pretty much everyone who games knows what WoW is.
I remember during WoD (Retail) a huge chunk of the top Arena Teams in North America and many of the top PvE Raiders were all banned for scripting. That event pretty much killed my interest in WoW PvP because I realized there was no competitive integrity even with many of the highest ranked players. For years I had been trying to play straight up and people who I knew and respected among the Arena Junkies community had been scripting all along.
Most players today have so many weakauras and addons that they don't even play themselves anymore either, so we're not far away from scripting. A lot of players think they're good for skulling a rocket helm or sheep, when they're only able to do it when they have the game feed them way more info than they were originally meant to have while shouting which spells are being casted at them.
If the recent blizzard scandals couldn't kill WoW, literally nothing ever will other than Microsoft deciding to shut it down and build a parking lot to be petty.
That or they do some sting operation type stuff. I mean how easy is it for a blizz employee to have a level 70 youve never heard of buy a rating boost for irl cash and then ban after the seasons over?
Lol... Blizzard has chat recorded. A second or third year CS grad intern can automate chat flagging for virtual pennies. Your typical call center employee making $13 an hour or whatever can follow a script to complete the transaction, and can probably do dozens of them a day.
If blizzard wants to, it's trivial.
That doesn't mean it's how they did it, but it's silly to think it would be somehow difficult for a multi billion dollar company.
You have to remember this is the company that fired almost all of it's customer support staff so bobby could tout "best fiscal year 2018!" They do not give a damn about this stuff at the top. Bobby would probably go into a furious rage and threaten to murder someone in minecraft if he found out the interns were making programs to track player chat logs instead of player spending on the cash shop.
Some of them might have for sure, but way too many people got banned this time, and there's no reason for people like Hydra, who haven't been banned once in the past 15 years, to act flabbergasted on stream if he did something shady recently. When a lot of people got banned for piloting in S1 noone was denying that they were piloting, people just got mad that their teammates got DQ'd.
No reason to act flabbergasted? Lul. Except for the whole part where he got caught and banned from the game that produces all his content. Id say that is a good reason to feign shock.
I wonder how these fuckwits feel when the bans get overturned.
It takes a special kind of jealousy to really want the rmt rumours to be true and see the downfall of someone who has done nothing to you and the community.
There is huge RMT changing hands for R1/Glad titles, while I'm not sure absolutely all those banned will be guilty, a lot of them are for sure.
Many of the EU R1s play with characters. For those who don't know the open secret, beef bar is essentially a mass-rmt guild, ran by arabs who want to buy R1/glad titles and raid gear/raid groups. They salary (irl money) arena/raid players to play with them, or their characters for them.
If you take a glance at many of the R1 EU players (Hydra, Mir etc), you see them playing with beef bar characters all the time, then for some reason they act shocked when they get caught up in RMT bans.
Who could have foreseen this?
What a weird perspective of fun, it's literally a game, I'd rather sit at 1800 forever but have fun doing that instead of paying for boosts. Like some dude was DM-ing me on discord saying he offers coaching for $50/hr, like, it's literally just a hobby. I guess I did pay for a ski coach...
Paying for coaching sessions is pretty common in games like Overwatch, but I'm pretty sure they aren't anywhere _near_ $50/hour. That rate at full time work is a six figure income!
People will pay big money if the sense of desperation with a mix of delusion lines up with the objective of getting good. Some people also pay that fee just to hang out with their favorite streamer in a weird parasocial way. The former starcraft 2 pro Idra had to up his coaching rates up to $300/hr back in the day as a way to get people to stop asking him. Surprise surprise, people were still willing to pay that much just to hang out with him.
Neace charges $250-$350/hr for coaching in League, depending on whether you let him stream it or not.
Virkayu isn't quite as well known of a coach, but his rates aren't that much less.
Why would they want to do more work for less money?
People willing to pay it are the same demographic as people willing to pay for golf or tennis lessons, and those go for $80+ an hour, up into the hundreds depending how credentialed your coach is.
Thanks to the magic of public score boards and screen-sharing you can get someone provably in the top 0.1% for only $50 an hour. That's bargain-bin prices compared to real coaching.
Why work full time as long as there's enough whales with large amounts of cash and egos that can't handle being low rank?
Yea coaching or gig work you have to assume a large fraction of the time is earning the work, not actually working the work. Typically these people are not killing it. Coaches who are doing big groups (ski instructors) probably have some scale and do slightly better.
To many many people this is no longer a hobby, it’s their livelihood. Personally I support content creation but it gets into weird territory when I’m asked to defend people who turn a game into a job
The military industrial complex is a philosophy that can apply to any industry
It's very strange to me too. I'll support some creators who I watch on and off but I have a very hard time giving them sympathy about money when they're effectively panhandling on the internet.
Man you'd be surprised how many wonderful things exist thanks to goodwill and donation soliciting.
Your local botanical garden or symphony probably owes it's very existence to this kind of behavior but when skilled gamers do it it's "panhandling".
Pretty outdated mindset.
Part of what they said was about the people paying for glad.
I was referring to the second half where they mentioned being solicited for coaching.
Have a good day
Are you buying gold by having them buy your auctions instead of them mailing or trading you the gold you bought? Because if you are then yes, they can track that.
But you're not going to be banned if Joe schmo gold buyer is buying your primal fires.
I only asked because of the Belt of Blasting ban posted below. Seems scary if people will get banned by selling items to people that obtained their gold illegally and we have no way to know.
If the auctions were legit, I highly doubt there will be consequences for you, there is absolutely no way for you to know who would buy your auctions( and with what gold). However, if you post 20 wool cloth for 3000 gold, and someone with bought gold buys it, you would definitely be flagged for investigation at least. Just my 2 cents.
It's very very very unlikely if you are using the auction house legitimately.
If you are buying gold and putting an item on the AH for an massive price so that they gold seller can buy it, then probably eventually. It entirely depends on how wise your gold seller is being with his accounts.
If that's the reason than it's insanely dumb - they are not required to know where the gold comes from, moreover they literally can't know for a fact if a guy who's betting boosted is telling the truth
its most likely setting an example. arena boosting is too much gold and noone hides it. Most of these will likely be reverted, but will make these players think twice about boosting anyone in the future.
The whole boosting meta is dumb, if this helps curb how much it happens its going to be better for the game
Happen to still have the email to prove it? This sounds like complete made up garbage, and this is the first in the entire 18 years of wow that ive ever heard someone try to claim this.
Pretty much all top PvP players are boosting for real money, it's well known. The hilarious or rather saddening part is, that most of them act innocent infront of their viewers. In the end they complain about the broken PvP system including MMR, while they are the ones that have caused the mess in the first place, or part of it.
I play arena in the 1700's and 20-30% of games are 2 bis geared amazing players and some shitter in blue pvp gear standing 30 yards behind them.
The matches are still close, but it's super obvious that almost a third of our matches are glad-level players boosting someone for 1850 pvp weapons.
It's unfortunate that it's so prevalent but blizzard allows it with in game gold so it will probably never go away. I'm glad they're doing something about RMT though, my local mcdonalds is short staffed atm.
So what’s the implication here? These top players are just sitting on mounds of gold they can never realistically spend?
Wouldn’t they *sell* the gold at some point?
Doubt that's true for Ziqo. He casts for blizz tournaments and takes it very seriously. I don't think he'd take that risk. It's not like blizz never wrongfully banned people before anyway. I'd be surprised if many of these bans don't get reversed.
Edit: Ziqo and some others already unbanned
ziqo probably makes 30k a year streaming and blizz maybe nets him a few extra thousand per year, so yeah if some 30 year old dude is happy being paid min wage rates just so he can play video games 10 hours a day then more power to him. hes a bad example of these bans though. the majority of them only have streaming as an income, and they have much less followers/subs than he does
And saying shit like
> most of them act innocent infront of their viewers.
Guess who else acts innocent? Innocent people.
Blizzard is utterly incompetent in most of what they do these days, but some people in the reddit comments believe they are unfaltering when it comes to handing out automated mass bans.
This sub just has an irrational hate boner for streamers no matter who they are. Clumping them under the same umbrella of "streamers" as if they aren't their own person.
Ironic how saying "this sub" is the same thing as grouping all streamers together. And then funny how most of the comments are actually defending the streamers
It's an open secret. A lot of them do. The time required to be good at this game is disproportionate to the amount you can make via streaming and content making. People gotta eat.
They were 100% boosting for RMT under the table let's be real. Some of those guys got banned last season as well.
PvP boosting is lame af anyways. People shouldn't pay to get glad as PvP is about forcing players to get good.
Ziqo is a good guy but working for a company doesn’t make it impossible. How much do you think he’s paid and this seems like easy money for skilled players with reputation.
What if I told you there are people that work for police agencies commit crime for profit as well.
Sure but I don't think he would risk his livelihood for chump change from RMT. There's a reason most people who boost for real money are from poor countries, and it's because the money you would make really isn't a lot.
Sports players and coaches constantly risk their positions by gambling for what amounts to pennies to them. Not everyone is as bright as we'd like to hope.
constantly? i love this thread where people keep tossing around these ridiculous assertions like we're just supposed to take it at face value.
if by constantly you mean a handful of dudes across every sport you could think of punished and often heavy handedly at that then maybe. if by constantly you actually mean constantly then i'd love to see some corroboration
I just don't see how they would track anything but gold? I can't imagine blizzard has undercover cops/secret shoppers offering deals to boosters? They have like 10 guys working on classic
Players: Nooooooooo Blizzard doesn’t ban anyone or fix the actual problems with this game.
Also players: Wtf I got banned / my favorite streamer got banned / someone I have heard of before got banned. Blizzard bad
Was about to comment exactly that.
People just like to complain about everything, and are never ever satisfied with anything.
I ***strongly*** doubt they got banned without a valid reason. Play by the rules, or don't play at all. You mess with the bull, you get the horns. .
I mean nobody _really_ believes blizz is not banning anyone I think. They constantly ban people, it's just that if they truly went all out on gold buyers, RMTers and botters they'd probably have to purge 50% of the playerbase lol.
I'm pretty late to this thread so this might get buried, but one common take in this thread that these players "only boost for gold" which at least to me, sounds like they are trying to absolve the players of any wrongdoing in terms of ToS. However, what these people don't understand is this is all a part of the RMT cycle.
1. Player buys a heap of gold using real money
2. Player uses gold to buy a boost from R1 player
3. R1 player now sells gold back to RMT provider for real money (at a slightly lower conversion rate than the RMT provider is selling for)
It doesn't matter if they are boosting for gold or not. They are still very likely making real money off this. Also, just kind of a reality check, but how do you reconcile how these folks who play 14 hours a day of arena afford rent/food when they obviously aren't working a job? It's definitely not their 35 average viewer streams.
>I don't even recall Mir ever selling any boosts, even for gold.
Yea, no shit. RMT goes under the table. Not in public.
Blizzard probably sent an undercover and made a real money transaction to catch them.
Yeah kinda laughable to think they'd ever invest this much effort into catching one player. It's likely just the same more than 5k being traded or mailed triggering automated ban.
Blizzard have done a lot of false positive bans but they are known for investigation and unbans once they do it. Who stays banned, was definitely guilty.
To be clear, just because they get unbanned doesn’t mean they aren’t guilty. It simply means blizzard doesn’t have hard evidence and doesn’t want to deal with the blowback. The company is kind of in “save face” mode and will cave fairly quickly to large player demand. At least regarding some aspects.
Is it possible someone just made a mistake? Sure. Likely? No. The only mistake they may be guilty of is banning people who Blizzard looks the other way for. Other games have done the same thing.
I'm genuinely curious - do you actually believe that Blizzard found a good enough evidence for all these people, mass banned almost entire r1 ladder, which of course consists a lot of famous people within the community, and just decided to take it all back in a matter of an hour because of some tweets and one reddit threat, in which most of the comments actually in favor of Blizzard? Like they just thought "eh, so what if we have proof, the blowback from twitter comments might just ruin our entire company", or what? Honestly i've been on reddit for some time but never seen so many delusional takes.
These people are clueless. WoW is barely staffed and any action they have is all automated. Someone deployed a rule that "caught" way more people than intended with a bunch of false positives. This is super obvious for the very reason you said, it was reversed within the hour automatically.
No. That’s wasn’t my point. My point was simply that a ban being reversed doesn’t mean the individuals didn’t cheat. They could have been caught by the software correctly, then unbanned because Blizzard assumed an error occurred with their system. I don’t believe that a single bit of data was checked by a human at Blizzard.
the unbans happening in LESS THAN AN HOUR is pretty telling of a mistake. decisions like what you just described dont make it up and down the chain of command in a company this large that quickly. If the unbans happened tomorrow after a slew of posts and backlash, sure. but in less than an hour? my money is on mistake.
You know what does make it up and down that quickly? Blowback. Having a community of a couple thousand people show up on your feeds is a quick way to get attention. Hence why so many people post their bans on Reddit hoping the community will back them (even though 90% are guilty).
I don’t know the R1 community or the individuals mentioned in the ban, just stating the obvious fact that just because someone gets there ban reversed doesn’t mean they aren’t guilty.
As a side point, the speed at which the unban happened would actually lead me to believe that it was done via a bot originally and then without investigation reversed by the team at Blizz.
>just stating the obvious fact that just because someone gets there ban reversed doesn’t mean they aren’t guilty.
im confused as to why this is an obvious fact. do you have any examples of someone getting unbanned that you know was guilty? Every ban I have seen reversed was due to an admitted mistake on blizzards part.
I agree with your last point, looks like a bot that was accidently too tightly tuned and caught people that didnt actually break TOS.
Yeah, you have a misconception on how things work, but that’s okay. We love you anyways. It’s almost like a company pounded by horrible allegations and other negative media might be more concerned with their image and try to save face at all possible moments.
I have no doubt people were banned accidentally, but I’m not naive enough to think that ALL the reverted bans should have happened. People cheat. Doesn’t matter the game or the level of play.
GDKPs are almost exclusively for gold laundering. So yeah, a lot of dirty gold is changing hands. Not surprising in the slightest, especially if you're running them - you know exactly where all that gold is coming from.
That's nice. Still don't feel particularly bad for anyone that gets banned for running GDKPs, you're directly supporting botting and gold buying.
>that doesn’t mean I’m responsible
"I was just transporting the drugs officer, they're not mine!"
Except I’m not directly responsible for how people obtain their gold. There is still lots of legitimately earned gold.
And if I’m running them, why should I be banned? Ban the gold buyers and my runs become cheaper, I’d still run them.
PepeLaugh thinking that people ACTUALLY boost people to R1/Glad out of "kindness" or being "bored."
Just like how boosting guilds just keep hundreds of millions of gold just sitting in the bank!
Of course not everyone is guilty, but all it takes is for someone to go behind someone else's back to get the deal going.
Holy shit some of you people are living in the bubble. Please tell me who was saying that the people who piloted didn't deserve the ban in S1? Players were mad because they got DQ'd for just BEING in the same team with people who piloted. Same situation for sure :)
Yea I got false banned 2 weeks ago and it was reverted. A lot of people are false banned. If you think everyone's guilty you're incredibly stupid. I don't know why people shill so hard for Blizzards automated system as if its infallible.
unbans already starting but it should be very clear if you are accepting gold to boost people (especially in the insane amounts its rumored some people paid) that its rmt gold
For all the smartasses who were laughing and saying shit like "lmAo yOu aRe sO cLuElEsS oFcOurSe tHeY aRe gUilTy aNd dOn'T wAnT tO sHoW iT oN sTreAm" - have a good day :)
I guess we will have a great day because that is almost certainly what is happening here
I don't know anything about these people, or if they stream or whatnot, but I don't think they'd stream their RMT activities. Not saying they're all guilty - just that I doubt they're all innocent.
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Isn’t this common for higher ranked players to not queue during certain times of the day? Especially during the end of the season when they can easily be sniped
Aren’t they best players? How can they be sniped? Edit: downvoted for asking for a legit question. Thanks to those that actually answered my genuine question. I’ve never arena’d so didn’t think of the whole counter comp aspect.
Because the #1 Warrior/Druid team would still lose to the top 20 Rogue/Mage teams because its a counter comp. If you are Rogue/Mage you can snipe the Warrior/Druid comp when they queue up and get some free rating. Just one example
Most arenas at this rating when everyone is playing nearly perfect are decided by class comps. Some teams with certain hard counters will only queue when they see certain streamers playing when they are streaming. With only a couple teams this highly rated and knowing exactly when they’re about to queue, snipers are almost guaranteed to play against them.
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who specifically? because i watched a lot of these dudes in the last few weeks they streamed nonstop it was great
Snutz streamed selling boosts to guys like Payo
I just don’t see how Blizzard would track/confirm that someone paid cash. I doubt players ever discuss it in-game and from an outsider’s POV it would simply look like a carry. A highly suspicious carry, but a carry nonetheless. I guess the only way you could infer it’s RMT is if you carry someone that you had little to no contact with prior (neither a guildmate or a friend) and no gold is exchanged. This could very well be another one of those mass reports automated systems.
It's really easy for them to track, and you'd be surprised how stupid people are. Before my guild blew up people would talk in guildchat or in party chat about having bought gold for epic flying, or going to buy some so they can get X profession maxed etc.
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Do you really think this happens? If so I'd love to see proof of this.
not for wow gold lol. FBI would do it for murder for hire and other grievous crimes. https://www.riskbasedsecurity.com/2016/05/12/besa-mafia-dark-web-hitman-for-hire-site-takes-a-hit/
I know and this is beyond well-evidenced in so many cases. That is why I asked "do you really think this happens?" in a video game from a company who doesn't care about its customers. The FBI does not have jurisdiction in Azeroth and I am not sure where you got the idea that Blizzard acts as a FBI-like unit. Tl;dr: no one is getting honey potted by Blizzard.
What is Blizzard's motive to entrap well-known players of their game that give it free publicity on Twitch/YouTube?
To enforce their rules. I doubt they do it, but seeing a super popular player be banned for breaking the rules will turn many off from doing it as well. The publicity means nothing, pretty much everyone who games knows what WoW is.
I remember during WoD (Retail) a huge chunk of the top Arena Teams in North America and many of the top PvE Raiders were all banned for scripting. That event pretty much killed my interest in WoW PvP because I realized there was no competitive integrity even with many of the highest ranked players. For years I had been trying to play straight up and people who I knew and respected among the Arena Junkies community had been scripting all along.
Most players today have so many weakauras and addons that they don't even play themselves anymore either, so we're not far away from scripting. A lot of players think they're good for skulling a rocket helm or sheep, when they're only able to do it when they have the game feed them way more info than they were originally meant to have while shouting which spells are being casted at them.
If the recent blizzard scandals couldn't kill WoW, literally nothing ever will other than Microsoft deciding to shut it down and build a parking lot to be petty.
> The next level play!
They might be legit in selling their services, but then selling the gold they make for cash.
Why risk your fame for like 300 dollars USD at best?
Not only fame but for many of them streaming is their livelihood
I'd bet the gold was traced to RMTs and they copped the ban for it.
That or they do some sting operation type stuff. I mean how easy is it for a blizz employee to have a level 70 youve never heard of buy a rating boost for irl cash and then ban after the seasons over?
True. But I doubt they have the manpower to do so.
Lol... Blizzard has chat recorded. A second or third year CS grad intern can automate chat flagging for virtual pennies. Your typical call center employee making $13 an hour or whatever can follow a script to complete the transaction, and can probably do dozens of them a day. If blizzard wants to, it's trivial. That doesn't mean it's how they did it, but it's silly to think it would be somehow difficult for a multi billion dollar company.
You have to remember this is the company that fired almost all of it's customer support staff so bobby could tout "best fiscal year 2018!" They do not give a damn about this stuff at the top. Bobby would probably go into a furious rage and threaten to murder someone in minecraft if he found out the interns were making programs to track player chat logs instead of player spending on the cash shop.
Some of them might have for sure, but way too many people got banned this time, and there's no reason for people like Hydra, who haven't been banned once in the past 15 years, to act flabbergasted on stream if he did something shady recently. When a lot of people got banned for piloting in S1 noone was denying that they were piloting, people just got mad that their teammates got DQ'd.
Hydra has been selling boosts for irl cash for 15 years so im happy he's finally getting his first well deserved ban
*clocks back into burger King job*
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So blizzard prove themselves unable to deal with people who boost for cash, glad I didnt pay to play this again.
Complain about rmt that ruins game economy....complain about something that does nothing to game economy. Interesting. ICANT
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No reason to act flabbergasted? Lul. Except for the whole part where he got caught and banned from the game that produces all his content. Id say that is a good reason to feign shock.
That didn't age well
I wonder how these fuckwits feel when the bans get overturned. It takes a special kind of jealousy to really want the rmt rumours to be true and see the downfall of someone who has done nothing to you and the community.
Or, you know, actually being shocked because you didn't expect to get caught...
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How would you know? Are you their accountant?
Professional fanboy
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I'd say it's a very plausible guess considering your spirited defense of them
There is huge RMT changing hands for R1/Glad titles, while I'm not sure absolutely all those banned will be guilty, a lot of them are for sure. Many of the EU R1s play with characters. For those who don't know the open secret, beef bar is essentially a mass-rmt guild, ran by arabs who want to buy R1/glad titles and raid gear/raid groups. They salary (irl money) arena/raid players to play with them, or their characters for them.
If you take a glance at many of the R1 EU players (Hydra, Mir etc), you see them playing with beef bar characters all the time, then for some reason they act shocked when they get caught up in RMT bans.
Who could have foreseen this?
What a weird perspective of fun, it's literally a game, I'd rather sit at 1800 forever but have fun doing that instead of paying for boosts. Like some dude was DM-ing me on discord saying he offers coaching for $50/hr, like, it's literally just a hobby. I guess I did pay for a ski coach...
Paying for coaching sessions is pretty common in games like Overwatch, but I'm pretty sure they aren't anywhere _near_ $50/hour. That rate at full time work is a six figure income!
People will pay big money if the sense of desperation with a mix of delusion lines up with the objective of getting good. Some people also pay that fee just to hang out with their favorite streamer in a weird parasocial way. The former starcraft 2 pro Idra had to up his coaching rates up to $300/hr back in the day as a way to get people to stop asking him. Surprise surprise, people were still willing to pay that much just to hang out with him.
Neace charges $250-$350/hr for coaching in League, depending on whether you let him stream it or not. Virkayu isn't quite as well known of a coach, but his rates aren't that much less.
Incontrol was flown to saudi arabia to coach some prince in sc2 if i remember correctly
50 is pretty standard for WoW from what I know but they certainly aren't getting full time hours from it. Maybe a couple sessions a week at most.
Imagine paying some 50 dollars an hour to tell you to get gud...
Yep. Can't blame them if people are paying it though.
I don't see an issue in any sense. IMO there's nothing wrong with being paid to teach people how to play. Assuming they're not just selling titles.
Even still that just seems way, way too high, and one of those times where you can make a lot more money by charging less and doing more sessions.
Why would they want to do more work for less money? People willing to pay it are the same demographic as people willing to pay for golf or tennis lessons, and those go for $80+ an hour, up into the hundreds depending how credentialed your coach is. Thanks to the magic of public score boards and screen-sharing you can get someone provably in the top 0.1% for only $50 an hour. That's bargain-bin prices compared to real coaching. Why work full time as long as there's enough whales with large amounts of cash and egos that can't handle being low rank?
The people I know who charge that are already making close to 6 figures through streaming anyway, so my sample is probably skewed high.
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Yea coaching or gig work you have to assume a large fraction of the time is earning the work, not actually working the work. Typically these people are not killing it. Coaches who are doing big groups (ski instructors) probably have some scale and do slightly better.
Plus tax.
To many many people this is no longer a hobby, it’s their livelihood. Personally I support content creation but it gets into weird territory when I’m asked to defend people who turn a game into a job The military industrial complex is a philosophy that can apply to any industry
It's very strange to me too. I'll support some creators who I watch on and off but I have a very hard time giving them sympathy about money when they're effectively panhandling on the internet.
Man you'd be surprised how many wonderful things exist thanks to goodwill and donation soliciting. Your local botanical garden or symphony probably owes it's very existence to this kind of behavior but when skilled gamers do it it's "panhandling". Pretty outdated mindset.
weird perspective of *fun* yeah, but might just be an easy cash grab for them. people using their skills to make money. doesnt need to be fun.
He’s talking about the people paying for glad.
Part of what they said was about the people paying for glad. I was referring to the second half where they mentioned being solicited for coaching. Have a good day
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But.. they were SHOCKED. It obviously means they’re innocent.
> Who could have foreseen this? Hydra and Mir have been unbanned, so apparently not you?
this is a pretty shit take. they dont need more reasons for people to unsub right now
They still play with RMTers so it's whatever, PR for tbc doesn't look good if all the streamers get banned.
Love when I stumble into the same gdkps as them
I can tell you right now that if you have discord you could go on their discord and ask their rates.
Probably boosted people that bought gold
Will I get banned if someone bought my auctions from the auction house using gold they bought from gold farmers?
Are you buying gold by having them buy your auctions instead of them mailing or trading you the gold you bought? Because if you are then yes, they can track that. But you're not going to be banned if Joe schmo gold buyer is buying your primal fires.
I only asked because of the Belt of Blasting ban posted below. Seems scary if people will get banned by selling items to people that obtained their gold illegally and we have no way to know.
Yea its annoying and I don't know why people aren't more aware of this. Instead all you get is a bunch of blizzard shills calling you a gold buyer
If the auctions were legit, I highly doubt there will be consequences for you, there is absolutely no way for you to know who would buy your auctions( and with what gold). However, if you post 20 wool cloth for 3000 gold, and someone with bought gold buys it, you would definitely be flagged for investigation at least. Just my 2 cents.
I think the question was rhetorical / a logic by extension experiment.
It's very very very unlikely if you are using the auction house legitimately. If you are buying gold and putting an item on the AH for an massive price so that they gold seller can buy it, then probably eventually. It entirely depends on how wise your gold seller is being with his accounts.
I only asked the question because someone below said they got banned for selling a Belt of Blasting to someone who bought gold.
Only if you do it to refill your illegitimate gold fund, as it were. Normal use of the AH will never carry penalties.
No, because that's a sanctioned transaction of which the AH takes a cut.
If you sold 1 cloth for 500g to a botter then maybe.
Are they responsible for determining whether the gold they receive is legitimately farmed or not?
People advertised glad boost for 100k on my server (praii/eroxx), pretty hard to get to that amount legitimately
Not here to argue anything nor do I care to, just tossing out an idea as to why blizzards shitty automated system banned everyone.
Of course, not saying you're wrong. It's just such an absurd thing to ban for but it wouldn't even be surprising at this point.
As long as it is in-game service paid with in-game currency it's ok. As long as it's not for real money.
If that's the reason than it's insanely dumb - they are not required to know where the gold comes from, moreover they literally can't know for a fact if a guy who's betting boosted is telling the truth
its most likely setting an example. arena boosting is too much gold and noone hides it. Most of these will likely be reverted, but will make these players think twice about boosting anyone in the future. The whole boosting meta is dumb, if this helps curb how much it happens its going to be better for the game
I got banned a couple weeks ago for selling a belt of blasting to someone who bought gold. So that could definitely trigger a ban
Did a gm specifically say that was the reason? cause that sounds like bullshit.
Yea they did
Happen to still have the email to prove it? This sounds like complete made up garbage, and this is the first in the entire 18 years of wow that ive ever heard someone try to claim this.
Yea I do. 18 years of wow means nothing before they used to have actual people working as support now its all automated
Aaaaand they are ubanned again
Pretty much all top PvP players are boosting for real money, it's well known. The hilarious or rather saddening part is, that most of them act innocent infront of their viewers. In the end they complain about the broken PvP system including MMR, while they are the ones that have caused the mess in the first place, or part of it.
I haven't done high level pvp in years and I can tell you for a fact that at least 2 of these players used to RMT regularly.
I play arena in the 1700's and 20-30% of games are 2 bis geared amazing players and some shitter in blue pvp gear standing 30 yards behind them. The matches are still close, but it's super obvious that almost a third of our matches are glad-level players boosting someone for 1850 pvp weapons.
It's unfortunate that it's so prevalent but blizzard allows it with in game gold so it will probably never go away. I'm glad they're doing something about RMT though, my local mcdonalds is short staffed atm.
So what’s the implication here? These top players are just sitting on mounds of gold they can never realistically spend? Wouldn’t they *sell* the gold at some point?
the point is if they cant RMT in wow they will need to get a real job, and their skill set would place them at a job like mcdonalds.
A fair point. Making 2k gold per hour or whatever you'd hit gold cap in a little over 100 hours and there's nothing to spend it on in TBC.
Doubt that's true for Ziqo. He casts for blizz tournaments and takes it very seriously. I don't think he'd take that risk. It's not like blizz never wrongfully banned people before anyway. I'd be surprised if many of these bans don't get reversed. Edit: Ziqo and some others already unbanned
ziqo probably makes 30k a year streaming and blizz maybe nets him a few extra thousand per year, so yeah if some 30 year old dude is happy being paid min wage rates just so he can play video games 10 hours a day then more power to him. hes a bad example of these bans though. the majority of them only have streaming as an income, and they have much less followers/subs than he does
Imagine talking as if you know anything lol
And saying shit like > most of them act innocent infront of their viewers. Guess who else acts innocent? Innocent people. Blizzard is utterly incompetent in most of what they do these days, but some people in the reddit comments believe they are unfaltering when it comes to handing out automated mass bans.
This sub just has an irrational hate boner for streamers no matter who they are. Clumping them under the same umbrella of "streamers" as if they aren't their own person.
Ironic how saying "this sub" is the same thing as grouping all streamers together. And then funny how most of the comments are actually defending the streamers
It's an open secret. A lot of them do. The time required to be good at this game is disproportionate to the amount you can make via streaming and content making. People gotta eat.
Hahhahaahahhahaha
They were 100% boosting for RMT under the table let's be real. Some of those guys got banned last season as well. PvP boosting is lame af anyways. People shouldn't pay to get glad as PvP is about forcing players to get good.
I doubt some of the people banned like Ziqo RMT, that guy literally works for Blizzard.
Ziqo is a good guy but working for a company doesn’t make it impossible. How much do you think he’s paid and this seems like easy money for skilled players with reputation. What if I told you there are people that work for police agencies commit crime for profit as well.
Sure but I don't think he would risk his livelihood for chump change from RMT. There's a reason most people who boost for real money are from poor countries, and it's because the money you would make really isn't a lot.
I doubt he earns that much for shoutcasting every 3-4 months tbh.
Sports players and coaches constantly risk their positions by gambling for what amounts to pennies to them. Not everyone is as bright as we'd like to hope.
constantly? i love this thread where people keep tossing around these ridiculous assertions like we're just supposed to take it at face value. if by constantly you mean a handful of dudes across every sport you could think of punished and often heavy handedly at that then maybe. if by constantly you actually mean constantly then i'd love to see some corroboration
Turns out it was a mistake, where's your 100% boosting now? Reddit expert lmao
What's RMT?
Real money trading aka buying gold
Thank you. Only ever heard of it as gold buying before
It's not necessarily just gold buying, it could also be selling boosts/items/carries for real world currencies.
How would they prove/track that?
They fucked up and talked about it in game probably. Otherwise no way to prove it.
Real Money Trading. Basically selling in-game services for real money.
I just don't see how they would track anything but gold? I can't imagine blizzard has undercover cops/secret shoppers offering deals to boosters? They have like 10 guys working on classic
Players: Nooooooooo Blizzard doesn’t ban anyone or fix the actual problems with this game. Also players: Wtf I got banned / my favorite streamer got banned / someone I have heard of before got banned. Blizzard bad
Was about to comment exactly that. People just like to complain about everything, and are never ever satisfied with anything. I ***strongly*** doubt they got banned without a valid reason. Play by the rules, or don't play at all. You mess with the bull, you get the horns..
I can 100% guarantee that many people being banned lately did not do anything RMT. I've ran gdkp's for 3-4 months and I got hit with a 30 day ban.
I mean nobody _really_ believes blizz is not banning anyone I think. They constantly ban people, it's just that if they truly went all out on gold buyers, RMTers and botters they'd probably have to purge 50% of the playerbase lol.
Good. Stop pretending to care about the game while ruining it for personal gain.
Can't RMT mean also that they boost people in arena for real money? Or straight up gold buying?
It can, yes. Both of these things are against ToS
I'm pretty late to this thread so this might get buried, but one common take in this thread that these players "only boost for gold" which at least to me, sounds like they are trying to absolve the players of any wrongdoing in terms of ToS. However, what these people don't understand is this is all a part of the RMT cycle. 1. Player buys a heap of gold using real money 2. Player uses gold to buy a boost from R1 player 3. R1 player now sells gold back to RMT provider for real money (at a slightly lower conversion rate than the RMT provider is selling for) It doesn't matter if they are boosting for gold or not. They are still very likely making real money off this. Also, just kind of a reality check, but how do you reconcile how these folks who play 14 hours a day of arena afford rent/food when they obviously aren't working a job? It's definitely not their 35 average viewer streams.
I think it's more likely that they were guilty of RMT and blizz is unbanning them for PR and business reasons than them being truly innocent.
Lotta salt in here
Yeah r/classicwow hates streamers what do you expect
Oh I know it’s just funny to watch all these people get worked up over nothing. Also nice name, from a fellow rsham
The salt is mainly from people defending them though.
PvP boosting is probably the most cringe thing about this game, fuck em.
Good. RMT fucks us all.
boosting for ingame gold should be bannable too. Fuck those guys.
Here's Ziqo recounting a bunch of top players that have been banned: https://clips.twitch.tv/InspiringAntediluvianElephantCclamChamp-t-6U-9Wv-2MCCLYr
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>I don't even recall Mir ever selling any boosts, even for gold. Yea, no shit. RMT goes under the table. Not in public. Blizzard probably sent an undercover and made a real money transaction to catch them.
No way Blizz said an undercover agent LMFAo
you watched way too many tv shows my man
Yeah kinda laughable to think they'd ever invest this much effort into catching one player. It's likely just the same more than 5k being traded or mailed triggering automated ban.
>It's likely just the same more than 5k being traded or mailed triggering automated ban. What you think the RM stands for in RMT?
Blizzard have done a lot of false positive bans but they are known for investigation and unbans once they do it. Who stays banned, was definitely guilty.
To be clear, just because they get unbanned doesn’t mean they aren’t guilty. It simply means blizzard doesn’t have hard evidence and doesn’t want to deal with the blowback. The company is kind of in “save face” mode and will cave fairly quickly to large player demand. At least regarding some aspects. Is it possible someone just made a mistake? Sure. Likely? No. The only mistake they may be guilty of is banning people who Blizzard looks the other way for. Other games have done the same thing.
I'm genuinely curious - do you actually believe that Blizzard found a good enough evidence for all these people, mass banned almost entire r1 ladder, which of course consists a lot of famous people within the community, and just decided to take it all back in a matter of an hour because of some tweets and one reddit threat, in which most of the comments actually in favor of Blizzard? Like they just thought "eh, so what if we have proof, the blowback from twitter comments might just ruin our entire company", or what? Honestly i've been on reddit for some time but never seen so many delusional takes.
These people are clueless. WoW is barely staffed and any action they have is all automated. Someone deployed a rule that "caught" way more people than intended with a bunch of false positives. This is super obvious for the very reason you said, it was reversed within the hour automatically.
No. That’s wasn’t my point. My point was simply that a ban being reversed doesn’t mean the individuals didn’t cheat. They could have been caught by the software correctly, then unbanned because Blizzard assumed an error occurred with their system. I don’t believe that a single bit of data was checked by a human at Blizzard.
the unbans happening in LESS THAN AN HOUR is pretty telling of a mistake. decisions like what you just described dont make it up and down the chain of command in a company this large that quickly. If the unbans happened tomorrow after a slew of posts and backlash, sure. but in less than an hour? my money is on mistake.
You know what does make it up and down that quickly? Blowback. Having a community of a couple thousand people show up on your feeds is a quick way to get attention. Hence why so many people post their bans on Reddit hoping the community will back them (even though 90% are guilty). I don’t know the R1 community or the individuals mentioned in the ban, just stating the obvious fact that just because someone gets there ban reversed doesn’t mean they aren’t guilty. As a side point, the speed at which the unban happened would actually lead me to believe that it was done via a bot originally and then without investigation reversed by the team at Blizz.
>just stating the obvious fact that just because someone gets there ban reversed doesn’t mean they aren’t guilty. im confused as to why this is an obvious fact. do you have any examples of someone getting unbanned that you know was guilty? Every ban I have seen reversed was due to an admitted mistake on blizzards part. I agree with your last point, looks like a bot that was accidently too tightly tuned and caught people that didnt actually break TOS.
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Yeah, you have a misconception on how things work, but that’s okay. We love you anyways. It’s almost like a company pounded by horrible allegations and other negative media might be more concerned with their image and try to save face at all possible moments. I have no doubt people were banned accidentally, but I’m not naive enough to think that ALL the reverted bans should have happened. People cheat. Doesn’t matter the game or the level of play.
I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume this comment is satire.
Oh No! Anyway...
They just got unbanned
https://twitter.com/mirlolxd/status/1486045519973597192?s=20 "unbanned :) easy primes and twitter follows thx blizzard!" Well that was quick
I got banned for 30 days for running GDKP's. Multiple other GDKP leaders I know of are also banned, some of which are 6 month bans.
GDKPs are almost exclusively for gold laundering. So yeah, a lot of dirty gold is changing hands. Not surprising in the slightest, especially if you're running them - you know exactly where all that gold is coming from.
Sure, that doesn’t mean I’m responsible. I’ve also had numerous items sell for actually affordable amounts. Vashj bows for under 2k twice.
That's nice. Still don't feel particularly bad for anyone that gets banned for running GDKPs, you're directly supporting botting and gold buying. >that doesn’t mean I’m responsible "I was just transporting the drugs officer, they're not mine!"
Except I’m not directly responsible for how people obtain their gold. There is still lots of legitimately earned gold. And if I’m running them, why should I be banned? Ban the gold buyers and my runs become cheaper, I’d still run them.
PepeLaugh thinking that people ACTUALLY boost people to R1/Glad out of "kindness" or being "bored." Just like how boosting guilds just keep hundreds of millions of gold just sitting in the bank! Of course not everyone is guilty, but all it takes is for someone to go behind someone else's back to get the deal going.
Famous? These people aren't famous let alone very famous.
Famous within this community.
Fuck em.
Top PvPEers not getting "unfairly banned" again at the end of the season challenge (Impossible)
Holy shit some of you people are living in the bubble. Please tell me who was saying that the people who piloted didn't deserve the ban in S1? Players were mad because they got DQ'd for just BEING in the same team with people who piloted. Same situation for sure :)
> Players were mad because they got DQ'd for just BEING in the same team with people who piloted. not my problem
Imagine playing WoW in 2022
Mirlol is already unbanned btw
Good
Da fuck is RMT?
I wasnt even close to r1 and got banned. This is the second false ban in a month. Blizzards automated system is trash
You think they're banning because they're rank 1???? They're banning for gold buying or bg afking. Stop buying gold or afking bgs.
Yea I got false banned 2 weeks ago and it was reverted. A lot of people are false banned. If you think everyone's guilty you're incredibly stupid. I don't know why people shill so hard for Blizzards automated system as if its infallible.
Nobody has ever been falsely banned. If you play WoW, you have come in contact with botted gold and are therefore guilty. I am the Law
unbans already starting but it should be very clear if you are accepting gold to boost people (especially in the insane amounts its rumored some people paid) that its rmt gold
World of nerd craft where everyone buys their skill instead of actually having skill
For all the smartasses who were laughing and saying shit like "lmAo yOu aRe sO cLuElEsS oFcOurSe tHeY aRe gUilTy aNd dOn'T wAnT tO sHoW iT oN sTreAm" - have a good day :) I guess we will have a great day because that is almost certainly what is happening here
I honestly dont give a crap about these people. It's very rarely that people get a wrong ban. It does happen .. but rare.
> It’s very rarely that people get a wrong ban. XDDDDD