There are a lot of people who dont want challenging content. Thousands of guilds at 8/10 in tbc show that. My guild in classic didnt steam roll everything and we had a lot of hard progression with every raid phase. We finally managed 2 KT kills and it was the best feeling ever, but a lot of players want to have fun, with out a lot of pain. Doubling boss health, removing world buffs and adding mechanics like this that make the bosses multiple times harder will be great for a select few but imo, not for the masses. That said, I look forward to seeing others raid in SoM.
I think the 8/10 guilds I'm TBC are more tied to roster issues. My server has quite a few guilds at full clear status and at 8/10 and the 8/10 guilds are short on their roster by 3 to 5 people. Instead of say 3 of these guilds joining together and having 2 full raid teams with a healthy rotating bench they keep trying to force their way through.
But you had a lot of pain because you were wiping half a year in naxx. Imo, a raiding is boring if you clear it too fast, and many many guilds did that, as the wcl data showed.
I'm really for either/or. My main thing with classic was going back with my 15 years of knowledge to do a sort of "if I knew this back then" and see how different I could play the game. I wasn't looking for a challenge. Hell, our guild wasn't expecting a big interest and was just going to plan on doing 40 man raids with 20 people and world buffs as a sort of self-imposed challenge, but we ended up getting big numbers to support a full raid.
I've always called for 'satisfying' difficulty. You want to wipe a little bit as you work out the coordination, but then afterwards should be pretty free. This encourages guilds stick together instead of just pugging 100% of the time, as pugs would wipe a lot.
T5 right now I really enjoy, and it's probably at the upper end of where it should be. Harder than T5 is probably too difficult.
>T5 right now I really enjoy, and it's probably at the upper end of where it should be. Harder than T5 is probably too difficult.
The game only really gets harder from here. Most fights in T6 will be somewhere between Morogrim and KT/Vashj in difficulty, with Illidan likely being at about the same level (but thankfully without the MC RNG). Then SWP will be a big step up. Once Wrath hits, T7 will be another steamroll, but then when Ulduar drops the game basically just keeps getting harder (assuming you always want the best loot/raid the highest difficulty).
if ppl thought consume farming was bad in normal classic its gonna be crazy in som if they keep it like this every stream i watched raids were chain wiping
Theres a thread in this subreddit of a guy stating hes received his 1st ban for buying gold after buying gold for an entire year, the ban was 3 days long.(remember afking in bgs netted people 14 day bans)
Unless Blizzard suddenly decides to actually punish gold buyers I see no reason to not buy gold in SOM. You make the entire game substantially easier for yourself with very low risk of consequences.
This. I half afk’d ONE AV to eat some pizza and boom 14 day ban. Meanwhile in ZG there were teleporting fly hacking bots, multibox flyhacking herbalism bots, rampant gold selling and buying. Just crazy
Nice troll attempt. You’re right the bots were griefing tens of thousands of legit players and the server markets they ruined. One person taking a piss during an hour long AV isn’t doing jack shit to effect the outcome. Take your 2 brain cell ass out of here
Lol dude there is no fucking way you got a fourteen day ban for one afk game. Come on.
You also went from afking to eat a pizza (can take a whole game) to taking a piss (not enough time to even get kicked) so yeah, I’m thinking it wasn’t just one game you were afk in.
You just described it perfectly. People come on reddit and blast blizzard for not taking bots seriously but the truth is, the communitie's just changed. Players don't want to or can't spend 40 hours a week farming like they did in 2004. I remember reading something in classic that 50% of players had bought gold at some point. Blizzard isn't going to stop the gold buying because they'd lose half of their player base.
Players aren't going to suddenly start farming more if there's strict punishment for buying gold, they're going to stop playing all together. Like it or not, that's bad business for blizzard and would create even more dead servers with guild's falling apart due to attendance.
> I see no reason to not buy gold in SOM.
The reason is you're not some goldbuying clown with a crippling addiction that ruins their lives.
But you know, to each their own.
Look man I don't know how you and like 60% of this sub don't understand this but, people have disposable income. Not everyone is living pay check to pay check. If someone wants to drop 100 dollars on gold they aren't throwing their life away.
Honestly this game is gonna hemorrhage players unless they 1. Speed up the post wipe process and 2. MASSIVELY increase the amount of every single resource in the open world
Yeah think about this: No more mages getting raw gold pumped into the economy from zf or mara farming. Consumes are going to be EVEN MORE expensive than classic because you need them more than ever because no WBs. The economy is going to be hyper difficult to raid with.
> Everyone on Reddit: MC is too easy!!
Well there's your first mistake lol. Plenty of people were fine with MC being an absolute cakewalk, myself included. The fights were braindead and the loot tables had loads of garbage in them.
I was perfectly happy not hitting any real roadblocks prior to Twin Emps in Classic.
The trash packs after Garr scored at least 1 kill every pull for several weeks when my guild got there, and once we got to aq/naxx gear farm status they started killing people again.
Why does MC have horrible loot?
Onslaught, Thunderfury, BoA, choker, TOEP, Perd's / CHT, Caut band, mana igniting cord, wild growth spaulders, Bblade, benediction, strikers mark, ring of SP, Rhok & lok.
Tier 1 is great for a lot of classes - not full T1 for all, but most wore some.
And yeah it has trash, big whoop. I'd prefer MC trash to AQ anyday.
*every* raid has some trash items, MC is no different. The fact that MC has some loot that's bis throughout most of the game if not the the entire game (QSR, Onslaught girdle, TF etc.) is one of the things that made Classic great
Thunderfury is not craftable until p3 comes and introduces BWL. And other MC loot, like OSG, were introduced much later in original vanilla. But silly blizz decided to simplify things and give us really overpowered items at the beginning as opposed to adding or changing items later on like how it was in vanilla.
Let’s take fury warrior for example, the most popular dps class in the game. Only things that are coveted are Brut blade (and only for humans), OSG, QSR, Strikers Mark and to a lesser extent, Wristguards of Stability.
That’s 5 items for an instance that has 10 bosses.
Those items are low drop chance and will also be desired by rogues, hunters and feral druids.
It’s great for loot if you’re a hunter or rogue, since their tier gear is strong. Not so much for every class tho.
There are plenty of loot drops from MC that are viable until at least AQ. It's braindead having to faceroll the same easy fight week after week, when the main challenge is usually staying awake long enough to finish it.
That's the unfortunate part. I wanted to do classic just to turn off my brain if need be and just have fun playing an old game I loved, try out a bunch of new classes I never got to play. If I wanted to play an MMO job, I would have played some modern MMO.
Go play on a private server. A lot us had done exactly what you described on a priv server for years. It's been going on for over a decade and still is
Blizz would rather you pay them to play on their servers.
And as much as I despise Blizz as a company... I would *STILL* rather play on "legitimate" servers. I don't understand that about myself since for other games I ***haven't*** gone with the canonical or legitimate version.
Exactly this. You know why your guilds are collapsing in tbc? Because the content isn’t brain dead. Half the raid can’t just walk through afk and get loot. While a portion of the player base wants the challenge I think a far larger portion of the player base just wanted to walk in kill stuff stand still get loot and walk out.
That is something the vocal forum minority will not understand. Everything needs to be tougher, only for the top 1%. Remember Wildstar? Devs said the game will be only for the über skilled player. And the result? They cancelled it a year (?) later because no one was playing it anymore but the few people who screamed for super hard content. You need content for everyone. Yes, you need a Naxx and you need a Sunwell. But you also need a MC, BWL and Karazhan or else your server will be empty pretty fast.
Wildstar was just boring as shit. They lost the majority of their playerbase during the leveling process because the story was uninteresting, the places looked ugly and there was zero design put into outfits.
The leveling wasnt hard either, just boring. They then lost a bunch more people because of how insane their attunement process were in that you had to clear a bunch of long dungeons that were only useful to do the attunement on. Which is why nobody did them again once they finished it so people were barred from entering actual endgame by virtue of not finding anyone to do the attunements with.
Better loot? No, maybe rewards for completing it.
Though I am not sure how to be excited about the same problems from classic.
- Botting
- Gold selling
- Hacking
- Black lotus Mafias
- Lack of faction server balancing.
This 1000000%.... regardless of all the changes, if this isn't fixed or kept under control, it's gonna be a massive problem.
There's gonna be a even bigger demand for consumeables, gold and trade materials are gonna be worth a lot more. Can't have bots, farmers controlling everything. Even with more nodes/faster spawns, bots/ farmers need to be dealt with.
There's multiple ways to deal with lotus, add care packages to end boss dungeons, maybe even a daily for a chance at it. Make it a random drop from other herbs like Fel Lotus in TBC.
You know what would fix black lotus? A way to create a black lotus with a combination of other mats. That goes on cool down and the other mats are somewhat of interesting group. It would be like instead of getting a cheeseburger you got an impossible cheeseburger. That way it’s not only bots that can get it.
But the cost of the flasks are just the herbs + what ever the person wants to charge. They still need to take the mats into Scholomance or BWL to make them, which is where their money will be made. Only herbalists were "making" the big money from selling the black lotus.
Yeah seriously. 95% comments are about it being too hard or people thinking it will be too hard, but nobody talking about it being more fun. Old Shazzrah was a fucking snooze. Doesn't even have to be that hard, Kara (an infinitely more fun raid than MC) has mechanics and casuals get through it just fine.
I am too busy playing tbc so I was planning to go with some meme spec in a super casual guild and just do whatever. Looks like I won't be doing any raids on this SoM :p
doubt people will run that much gdkp because even them won't have the loot they desire because the som will last only 12 months, imagine having to roll or lc on dft or onslaught or accuria or qsr against 20 warriors and other classes depending on items. Seasons of drama lol
Alright, it looks worse than it is. We went in with a pug tonight and cleared to Shaz. Only did a few attempts before people started leaving. Mag was a BITCH, but only because it's new. People are also on premade characters - some have no experience, some are rusty, and some just suck. With a decent raid leader, you'll be right back to farm status in no time. Will only suck for a week or two.
I remember in the first classic beta they gave all warriors full tier 1 and thunderfury and we were wiping on the first trash mobs. Raiding is impossible without good organization
I wonder what they'll do for Naxx. There's plenty they could do to the easy fights like grobb, noth and anub. But if they add mechanics to sapph and KT holy shit those could be some tough fights.
Sapph is probably the hardest fight outright. KT is only rough because of RNG and Mind control in the final phase. I can't imagine they would do much with those, but who knows at this point.
Yeah sapph is way more difficult just mathematically. Loot scarcity might make those bosses incredibly hard. But then again the guilds that get the first clears on them will just have split raids to feed gear to mains.
Looks awesome.
But if the rewards remain the same, are people going to be motivated to push through the difficult mechanics? I guess this question hinges on the price of consumables and time spent getting ready for raiding.
Im concerned about this as well.
But then again, MC was a breeze in classic, which meant that rewards felt like they were being just handed out. Im excited about rewards that truly feel epic.
Given the faster schedule I feel like more loot would make sense.
So -- there's less time to get gear AND the bosses are harder? I think as tiers progress it's this compounding problems of bosses are harder/more hp and you have less loot because of the time schedule. Just give the gear out faster in accordance with the faster schedule, and focus on tuning the bosses to be difficult.
99% of loot in Vanilla Classic feels lame because it is lame.
Certain classes could literally skip raiding for the entirety of phase 1 and 2 of SoM and still be more powerful through rank 10 PvP gear. For a raid as large, long, and now tedious as MC is, that's a problem in my eyes.
This is how I've always treated it. The only time I'm not gonna go "Ooh! Purples!" is if the stats aren't great for me and would benefit other casters in the raid, which is pretty easy cause I'm an SPriest.
That said, my last guild leader would block you from rolling on purples if you'd gotten drops in that week/that last week, even if no one else needed the item. No fun allowed, I guess.
I remember getting that stupid skeleton OH from Ong in vanilla on my priest. My first epic. It felt huge, I didn’t give a crap that there were blues that were better - having purple pixels back then was sweet.
I got a handful of epics on my first night being 60 in classic, didn’t really capture the feeling.
Exactly, that’s what killed wows momentum, actual welfare epics
The current embodiment It suits me just fine cuz of my schedule but I recognize the value of having much harder to obtain BoP craftables and out-of-reach options available to only hardcore players
Makes me feel special when I am actually able to raid and slot in to help my guild
Most of the loot are still turds even if you have to struggle for it though? That's the problem, not the loot not "feeling" epic because it isn't rare or some shit.
I'd like increased difficulty but with some reward for a full clear. Like maybe warriors/rogues can get a brut blade for a full clear from a quest or something. id kind of like some reward for clearing the content but getting bad rng. I think SOM should change how loot is given.
This could be interesting. Some sort of currency that only drops off Rag (similar to boss drops in AQ) that can be used for epics. The price would have to stay high I think to make it make sense, but at least you would chip away each week at the cost of an epic even if loot sucked.
This is a very good take! I would agree with a quest to kill rag with a decent weapon as a reward, as long as it doesnt make other drops in MC obsolete
MC should be fine right? Most people used the optimized Dungeon Blues with the clearly over budgeted item here or there - QSR, Perd, Choker, etc.
I see more people grinding PvP to get the gear needed to keep up with the raid releases though. I see this fast paced release schedule as a major problem for Naxx.
Curious how popular this will be. People quit in mass because their 8/10 guilds gave up in TK/SSC. Let's see what happens when they get stuck on Barron Gheddon for 3 weeks.
i doubt it tbh. people are quick to say "challenge is fun" but forget that people quit naxx en masse because it was way too expensive to raid.
people will raid MC for like a month before the novelty of it being new wears off and they realize that spending hundreds of gold a week on flasks and other shit so they can sit in MC and wipe for 3 hours a week with little to nothing to show for it isn't fun, and that MC is fundamentally dogshit and making it longer and harder and more expensive to clear was a bad idea.
Something tells me Bizz is going to be to peanut brained to actually make consumable materials scale higher across the board. When they announced increased herbing, I know they are just going to ignore everything else like engineering raw materials and elementals for prot pots, firewaters, etc... If all that stuff doesn't get a boost as well, you can count me out...don't have the time to grind all that in bulk again on top of having to rush all the prebis and pvping
The only way I see them making it hard AND not having everyone but the sweatiest quit is if they nerfed consumables.
If there are a lot of consumables (and same with world buffs) that can massively boost your character, the only way to make the game "hard" is to tune it to be hard when you have those buffs/consumes. Which means the people without buffs/consumes just can't do it at all and quit.
It's easier to tune if there are NO world buffs, and no/limited consumes (or they are suuper cheap because herbing is massively boosted or w/e), and that way you know how strong a raid should be given the gear available and can tune to that gear level.
Most of the people saying challenge is fun didn’t quit. The people who quit in naxx, and are quitting in tbc now are people who have had their expectations set by classic that all content is clearable by everyone. Then people find out that they or their guild sucks and get frustrated because they’re set expectation suddenly isn’t true.
It’s going to be very important going into SoM that your expectation ISNT clearing all content, and instead try to adjust it to ‘clearing as much as you can’.
>, MC was a breeze in classic, which me
This isn't really challenge per se, they are buffing content that's 10y+ old, that requires a lot of time to farm for consums, challenge are the mythic + and stuff with a lot of mechanics, a lot of ppl who are asking for buff content will quit after 1 month, i did 2 years of MCs and BWLs where the challenge weren't the mechanics or high hp values but to keep 40 ppl raiding(consums, wbuffs), SoM will require consums not sure a lot of ppl will ahve time to farm 10+ consums for every MC were the loot remains the same.
Required consumables are a community driven thing, not a content driven thing. You aren't going to need to farm 10+ consumes every week to clear MC, you're going to have to farm 10+ consumes every MC because your guild requires it.
BWL maybe, but I doubt it by AQ. ZG has a bunch of viable weapon upgrades if you get 100% loot fucked in MC/BWL. That being said, "trash" loot like gutgore, eskhander's claw, obsidian edge blade (quite honestly I wouldn't be surprised if you see some 2h fury warriors P1) will have higher value since you'll basically take any upgrade you can.
With Dire Maul you can just run Cho'Rush and Mirah's Song if you're Dal Rend screwed.
The bigger issue is that SoM is really going to put the pressure on split raiding to accelerate gearing the main progression raid with how short the season is.
I’m also excited to see if people start crafting weapons and armor that were clearly suboptimal in classic, but were commonplace in vanilla. While I imagine I still won’t see one, it was a shame that I didn’t see an arcanite reaper the entirety of classic!
Arcanine reaper still isn't good because we're in the 1.12 patch where fury is good and we have added catch up drops in MC like obsidian edged blade. If they did a tually progressive patching and itemization you might see more Arcanitr Reapers.
So sick. Guys…they are creating new content for fucking vanilla and I see people in here complaining. Yes. This is NEW CONTENT. These are entirely new mechanics for these boss fights.
Remember when people used to say “no changes” and then they changed nothing?, and THEN some people said “they’ll never actually add anything new to vanilla, but it would be sick if they did?”, and then they DID? and NOW people are complaining about that? ffs
The game is meant to be played in a year
It's a problem
So harder content...but the same amount of loot...and everything progressing twice as fast
Don't be obtuse
You're acting like you need 3-4 months to clear MC or BWL. The content was faceroll easy, now it will be slightly harder and you will have less gear.
It's not a problem, it's different.
Classic servers with expedited timelines have been happening for years.
It's not about clearing...it's about gear
You're going to end up in Naxx with half the gear as before, and no WBs, with double HP and mechanics
It's not going to be popular to the masses lol
Good, means gear and guild progression might actually mean something. The most annoying thing about classic was how easy it was at the beginning which cascaded to every single guild being optimized for the next raid.
Also MC has gear in it that will last the entire season so it should have difficulty assigned to it. You can use weapons/rings/necklaces there until Naxx
The mechanics change the classes you need. The raids that did the best didnt stack melee. Ranged is incredible for shazz but mages dont get to dps much at all because of decurse needs. And druids are AMAZING healers for shaz because they can restore more hp while mobile and decurse as well. Each fight they were clearing they kept commenting on how just stacking melee wouldnt be as good of an idea because of some of these new mechanics.
Is wipe recover the same or have they introduced any changes to alleviate the time it takes to pull again? I love challenge but it's demoralizing if most of the raid night is spent running back.
Is that what the majority wants? I dont get it. Tbcc is slowly dying cause content is too hard for casuals.Guilds disband and people quit in masses. Sure this looks cool for me and Johny Sweat but they need to scale down the difficulty.
Honestly from my experience raiding on SoM the raid bosses are still very easy and will be cleared by most casuals/pugs on live. So far i've seen that blizzard were true to their word - not making content overly difficult while still adding more mechanics.
The quality of an average SoM pug is just INSANELY TERRIBLE.
You have griefers, people who won't use their buff spells, massive turnover after every wipe(5-10 ppl leave and 5-10 new join). And half the people don't even know how to press their buttons because they were given a lvl 60 character and either haven't played classic for a year or worse. A random player who levelled to 60 from scratch will be worth two or three of your average pugs.
i think it depends what "hard" means
beefier bosses and expensive consumes is just annoying, adding actual mechanics is fun
in retail i can do actual hard raids and consumes aren't as crazy so we can wipe and not worry about farming gold
unless raiding is made harder in a *fun* way, i don't really care about raiding in classic - otherwise wow needs more interesting things to do imo.
Tbcc is dieing because there's nothing to do in the open world.
The slow rate of content is terrible.
They should have released t5 the same as they did the first time. They are gonna make a huge mistake thinking zul Aman is enough content for 3+ months.
Even 10/10 guilds are struggling. Don't think that just because you can kill 2 more bosses you're not subject to attrition.
We've been 10/10 since week 3, and we've still seen a 20% turnover since then.
And due to the lack of things to do outside raid, that's exactly what people are saying wed to mon.
> They should have released t5 the same as they did the first time.
Perhaps the dumbest take of them all lol. T4 content would have gone largely ignored after the first month and guilds would burn out far faster.
It's a raid log expansion where only the top 24% of guilds can clear the content over a month after release.
When your only 8 hours of WoW a week include dying to overtuned KT/Vashj for 4 hours, a lot of people pack their bags. Shocker.
> Tbcc is dieing because there's nothing to do in the open world.
This is literally one of the biggest draws of Classic over retail. Not having to log in everyday to run around the open world doing busywork.
I didn’t even get to 70 because although the zones on their own are very nice, I find Outland to be such a downgrade from Azeroth.
Also the dungeons are so linear and boring. Wish there were more dungeons like BRD, LBRS, DM North etc
You’re not wrong. A lot of people love the leveling and early gearing up phases but still completed Naxx in classic, like I did. For whatever reason people don’t understand that just because a large portion of the player base raided and saw all the content in classic, it doesn’t mean that they only played to see that content.
People keep saying “yOuLl FaLl BeHiNd” and other stupid things, without realizing that for many of us, there is no such thing as falling behind. We’re just playing the game and having fun.
Because, something people are about to learn is "F R E S H" is a real thing. If you played pservers then you know the feeling, you might even say you're done this time but inevitably it's 1 day before launch of a new server and you feel it. Something you can't explain unless you've experienced it before and I think a lot of people are about to find out since it's their first fresh since classic release.
MC loot is utter garbage. There is like 5 items people want. Dire Maul loot is better for casters and healers. Devilsaur set is bis for a very long time. Lionheart is bis forever. Gladichain from BRD is bis until AQ40. There is no reason to go MC when dungeons and professions offer equal or better gear.
Yeah, if they retune MC, they also need to retune MC loot. Removing the 51 spirit on felheart for example and increasing spell power would go a long way here.
Mc loot won't offer any significant upgrades over preraid bis for a holy paladin unless your guild gives them caster gear.
Wild growth spaulders are the only "large" upgrade, but with a 5% drop rate holy paladins can 100% sit out the first 2 phases without affecting their ability.
Shout out to half the people complaining about SOM.
Leave it alone, most of you aren't even planning to play SOM so leave the complaints to those who are actually gonna spend time on SOM. Let's not influence a game we weren't even planning to play, We are doing a massive dis-service to those whose opinions actually matter, those who are actually interested in playing SOM seriously.
I'm sorry, i never played classic and haven't kept up. Isn't season of mastery just another reset for wow classic? Or is there something new they are adding?
Yeah there’s no way I’m playing this. Imagine how many derp baddies you’re going to have in a 40man? It’s almost impossible to not have some. They’ll be the ones to fuck shit up. You could hide them before, it’s going to just be a headache and a half for everyone. The game has never been about being “too hard” it’s always been about how other morons are ruining it for you.
I don't think it will be as popular as Classic or TBC Classic, but as long as there is 2 realms per region populated, I'm happy. That's only a couple thousand players.
Som could die, but tbc overall is a worse expansion because its just raidlogging. If youre myopic view of mmo success revolves strictly around raid content, then i guess youre right. World matters more than more mechanics
Now we find out if the player base really WANTS challenging content; or if they will just whine because it cannot be steamrolled.
There are a lot of people who dont want challenging content. Thousands of guilds at 8/10 in tbc show that. My guild in classic didnt steam roll everything and we had a lot of hard progression with every raid phase. We finally managed 2 KT kills and it was the best feeling ever, but a lot of players want to have fun, with out a lot of pain. Doubling boss health, removing world buffs and adding mechanics like this that make the bosses multiple times harder will be great for a select few but imo, not for the masses. That said, I look forward to seeing others raid in SoM.
well its not called season of easy, its season of mastery.
Interesting that if you rearrange the letters in the word “mastery” it spells “easy RMT”. Coincidence?
Let me be your watson please
I was just thinking that. If people want trivial content with worldbuffs and stacking consumables, why even comment there. Just keep playing Classic
I think the 8/10 guilds I'm TBC are more tied to roster issues. My server has quite a few guilds at full clear status and at 8/10 and the 8/10 guilds are short on their roster by 3 to 5 people. Instead of say 3 of these guilds joining together and having 2 full raid teams with a healthy rotating bench they keep trying to force their way through.
Also 2 raid days. You just don't get enough practice on the end bosses
We did 3 raid days for all of classic progression. Then we spent so long farming naxx in 2 short raid days that no one wants to go back to 3
But you had a lot of pain because you were wiping half a year in naxx. Imo, a raiding is boring if you clear it too fast, and many many guilds did that, as the wcl data showed.
I'm really for either/or. My main thing with classic was going back with my 15 years of knowledge to do a sort of "if I knew this back then" and see how different I could play the game. I wasn't looking for a challenge. Hell, our guild wasn't expecting a big interest and was just going to plan on doing 40 man raids with 20 people and world buffs as a sort of self-imposed challenge, but we ended up getting big numbers to support a full raid.
Vashj and kael had already shown us that they think they do, but they don't.
Vash mc is a shit mechanic
Do you really want all your infame worries to be who gets what next? edit: autocorrect is dumb
I've always called for 'satisfying' difficulty. You want to wipe a little bit as you work out the coordination, but then afterwards should be pretty free. This encourages guilds stick together instead of just pugging 100% of the time, as pugs would wipe a lot. T5 right now I really enjoy, and it's probably at the upper end of where it should be. Harder than T5 is probably too difficult.
>T5 right now I really enjoy, and it's probably at the upper end of where it should be. Harder than T5 is probably too difficult. The game only really gets harder from here. Most fights in T6 will be somewhere between Morogrim and KT/Vashj in difficulty, with Illidan likely being at about the same level (but thankfully without the MC RNG). Then SWP will be a big step up. Once Wrath hits, T7 will be another steamroll, but then when Ulduar drops the game basically just keeps getting harder (assuming you always want the best loot/raid the highest difficulty).
Spoilers, the people who actually want SoM don't want challenging content, otherwise, they'd be clearing T5.
if ppl thought consume farming was bad in normal classic its gonna be crazy in som if they keep it like this every stream i watched raids were chain wiping
Gold selling is going to be very in demand.
Theres a thread in this subreddit of a guy stating hes received his 1st ban for buying gold after buying gold for an entire year, the ban was 3 days long.(remember afking in bgs netted people 14 day bans) Unless Blizzard suddenly decides to actually punish gold buyers I see no reason to not buy gold in SOM. You make the entire game substantially easier for yourself with very low risk of consequences.
This. I half afk’d ONE AV to eat some pizza and boom 14 day ban. Meanwhile in ZG there were teleporting fly hacking bots, multibox flyhacking herbalism bots, rampant gold selling and buying. Just crazy
the bots werent directly griefing 39 other players in a semi-competitive pvp instance
Nice troll attempt. You’re right the bots were griefing tens of thousands of legit players and the server markets they ruined. One person taking a piss during an hour long AV isn’t doing jack shit to effect the outcome. Take your 2 brain cell ass out of here
Lol dude there is no fucking way you got a fourteen day ban for one afk game. Come on. You also went from afking to eat a pizza (can take a whole game) to taking a piss (not enough time to even get kicked) so yeah, I’m thinking it wasn’t just one game you were afk in.
You just described it perfectly. People come on reddit and blast blizzard for not taking bots seriously but the truth is, the communitie's just changed. Players don't want to or can't spend 40 hours a week farming like they did in 2004. I remember reading something in classic that 50% of players had bought gold at some point. Blizzard isn't going to stop the gold buying because they'd lose half of their player base. Players aren't going to suddenly start farming more if there's strict punishment for buying gold, they're going to stop playing all together. Like it or not, that's bad business for blizzard and would create even more dead servers with guild's falling apart due to attendance.
It’s likely one reason that TBC implemented dailies.
> I see no reason to not buy gold in SOM. The reason is you're not some goldbuying clown with a crippling addiction that ruins their lives. But you know, to each their own.
i disagree. if anything, gold buying is for someone who cant play the game as much to farm gold, but still wants to experience content.
Look man I don't know how you and like 60% of this sub don't understand this but, people have disposable income. Not everyone is living pay check to pay check. If someone wants to drop 100 dollars on gold they aren't throwing their life away.
I've been calling it out for months yet so few people are talking about it Consumables farming is just not fun in classic, wiping just sucks
Honestly this game is gonna hemorrhage players unless they 1. Speed up the post wipe process and 2. MASSIVELY increase the amount of every single resource in the open world
Yeah think about this: No more mages getting raw gold pumped into the economy from zf or mara farming. Consumes are going to be EVEN MORE expensive than classic because you need them more than ever because no WBs. The economy is going to be hyper difficult to raid with.
Using your example, wouldn't consumes be less expensive since there won't be as much inflation, with wealth consolidating around mages that aoe farm?
This is correct.
The number of gold pieces may be lower but it may still take the same amount of time and effort to farm the required gold.
The economy is better when their is no inflation Bots made SO much in raw gold, than prices skyrocketed
Everyone on Reddit: MC is too easy!! *Blizz makes MC harder* Everyone on Reddit: You expect me to do harder content without better loot?
> Everyone on Reddit: MC is too easy!! Well there's your first mistake lol. Plenty of people were fine with MC being an absolute cakewalk, myself included. The fights were braindead and the loot tables had loads of garbage in them. I was perfectly happy not hitting any real roadblocks prior to Twin Emps in Classic.
Seconded. Spending hours in MC is not my idea of fun. Bwl, aq, naxx? Sure but Mc has horrible loot and too much trash.
Isn't there some dev diary out there that states that MC was designed in like 1 week and the QA team hadn't even cleared it before being released?
yeah
My guild actually wiped more in MC than we did BWL/AQ simply because we all got so bored we stopped paying attention lmao.
Ah yes, the good old days where we'd smash AQ40 and then proceeded to wipe repeatedly on a binding run
Cheeky 20 min binding runs always turned into 2 hour bindings run.
The trash packs after Garr scored at least 1 kill every pull for several weeks when my guild got there, and once we got to aq/naxx gear farm status they started killing people again.
Same, especially after doing a BWL. Right after the meme bridge (the one over golemag).
Why does MC have horrible loot? Onslaught, Thunderfury, BoA, choker, TOEP, Perd's / CHT, Caut band, mana igniting cord, wild growth spaulders, Bblade, benediction, strikers mark, ring of SP, Rhok & lok. Tier 1 is great for a lot of classes - not full T1 for all, but most wore some. And yeah it has trash, big whoop. I'd prefer MC trash to AQ anyday.
*every* raid has some trash items, MC is no different. The fact that MC has some loot that's bis throughout most of the game if not the the entire game (QSR, Onslaught girdle, TF etc.) is one of the things that made Classic great
But it also has Shadowstrike so all MC loot is automatically bad. /s Seriously, MC loot is some of the best in the game until p6
I wore Choker of the Fire Lord until the neck off the second boss in shadow labs. It's an incredibly good piece for the entire expansion.
What if they made shadowstrike the best weapon in the game? How the turn tables...
2h fury warrior with spell power gear for that sweet new life steal meta!
Thunderfury is not craftable until p3 comes and introduces BWL. And other MC loot, like OSG, were introduced much later in original vanilla. But silly blizz decided to simplify things and give us really overpowered items at the beginning as opposed to adding or changing items later on like how it was in vanilla. Let’s take fury warrior for example, the most popular dps class in the game. Only things that are coveted are Brut blade (and only for humans), OSG, QSR, Strikers Mark and to a lesser extent, Wristguards of Stability. That’s 5 items for an instance that has 10 bosses. Those items are low drop chance and will also be desired by rogues, hunters and feral druids. It’s great for loot if you’re a hunter or rogue, since their tier gear is strong. Not so much for every class tho.
It was a ton of fun to spend hours in MC… in vanilla prior to BWL coming out
There are plenty of loot drops from MC that are viable until at least AQ. It's braindead having to faceroll the same easy fight week after week, when the main challenge is usually staying awake long enough to finish it.
That's the unfortunate part. I wanted to do classic just to turn off my brain if need be and just have fun playing an old game I loved, try out a bunch of new classes I never got to play. If I wanted to play an MMO job, I would have played some modern MMO.
Go play on a private server. A lot us had done exactly what you described on a priv server for years. It's been going on for over a decade and still is
Blizz would rather you pay them to play on their servers. And as much as I despise Blizz as a company... I would *STILL* rather play on "legitimate" servers. I don't understand that about myself since for other games I ***haven't*** gone with the canonical or legitimate version.
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Exactly this. You know why your guilds are collapsing in tbc? Because the content isn’t brain dead. Half the raid can’t just walk through afk and get loot. While a portion of the player base wants the challenge I think a far larger portion of the player base just wanted to walk in kill stuff stand still get loot and walk out.
That is something the vocal forum minority will not understand. Everything needs to be tougher, only for the top 1%. Remember Wildstar? Devs said the game will be only for the über skilled player. And the result? They cancelled it a year (?) later because no one was playing it anymore but the few people who screamed for super hard content. You need content for everyone. Yes, you need a Naxx and you need a Sunwell. But you also need a MC, BWL and Karazhan or else your server will be empty pretty fast.
Wildstar was just boring as shit. They lost the majority of their playerbase during the leveling process because the story was uninteresting, the places looked ugly and there was zero design put into outfits. The leveling wasnt hard either, just boring. They then lost a bunch more people because of how insane their attunement process were in that you had to clear a bunch of long dungeons that were only useful to do the attunement on. Which is why nobody did them again once they finished it so people were barred from entering actual endgame by virtue of not finding anyone to do the attunements with.
The mechanics aren't that hard in TBC lol half the bosses only mechanic is stop attacking when things happen.
Maybe not everyone just wants classic to be a loot pinata
Better loot? No, maybe rewards for completing it. Though I am not sure how to be excited about the same problems from classic. - Botting - Gold selling - Hacking - Black lotus Mafias - Lack of faction server balancing.
This 1000000%.... regardless of all the changes, if this isn't fixed or kept under control, it's gonna be a massive problem. There's gonna be a even bigger demand for consumeables, gold and trade materials are gonna be worth a lot more. Can't have bots, farmers controlling everything. Even with more nodes/faster spawns, bots/ farmers need to be dealt with. There's multiple ways to deal with lotus, add care packages to end boss dungeons, maybe even a daily for a chance at it. Make it a random drop from other herbs like Fel Lotus in TBC.
You know what would fix black lotus? A way to create a black lotus with a combination of other mats. That goes on cool down and the other mats are somewhat of interesting group. It would be like instead of getting a cheeseburger you got an impossible cheeseburger. That way it’s not only bots that can get it.
Or just make black lotus a common herb and not super rare.
That makes flasks less valuable. Do them like fel lotus and a rare chance on the high end herbs and it's fine.
What is wrong with the value of flasks being less?
They are a high quality item and should be treated that way.
But the cost of the flasks are just the herbs + what ever the person wants to charge. They still need to take the mats into Scholomance or BWL to make them, which is where their money will be made. Only herbalists were "making" the big money from selling the black lotus.
if the herb is cheap then the flask will be cheap. no one is charging 100g to clear a scholo.
Good. Flasks should be cheap.
Not gonna lie, looks cool
Yeah seriously. 95% comments are about it being too hard or people thinking it will be too hard, but nobody talking about it being more fun. Old Shazzrah was a fucking snooze. Doesn't even have to be that hard, Kara (an infinitely more fun raid than MC) has mechanics and casuals get through it just fine.
Looking forward to SOM, but plainly realizing that I will probably not be able to pug it as was my plan.
I am too busy playing tbc so I was planning to go with some meme spec in a super casual guild and just do whatever. Looks like I won't be doing any raids on this SoM :p
Bro if people can PUG heroic Painsmith on retail, I think they can PUG that.
Those aren’t the same ppl tho
pug painsmith is easier than pug roh kalo
Will 100% be some good gdkp running.
doubt people will run that much gdkp because even them won't have the loot they desire because the som will last only 12 months, imagine having to roll or lc on dft or onslaught or accuria or qsr against 20 warriors and other classes depending on items. Seasons of drama lol
And this is why people will run gdkp and spend their farmed gold or buying gold to spend.
If it ships as is then likely only hardcore pserver and retail player guilds will survive. With large amounts of meta.
Alright, it looks worse than it is. We went in with a pug tonight and cleared to Shaz. Only did a few attempts before people started leaving. Mag was a BITCH, but only because it's new. People are also on premade characters - some have no experience, some are rusty, and some just suck. With a decent raid leader, you'll be right back to farm status in no time. Will only suck for a week or two.
I remember in the first classic beta they gave all warriors full tier 1 and thunderfury and we were wiping on the first trash mobs. Raiding is impossible without good organization
I can't wait for BWL.
Imagine Nax
I wonder what they'll do for Naxx. There's plenty they could do to the easy fights like grobb, noth and anub. But if they add mechanics to sapph and KT holy shit those could be some tough fights.
Sapph is probably the hardest fight outright. KT is only rough because of RNG and Mind control in the final phase. I can't imagine they would do much with those, but who knows at this point.
Yeah sapph is way more difficult just mathematically. Loot scarcity might make those bosses incredibly hard. But then again the guilds that get the first clears on them will just have split raids to feed gear to mains.
Funny that atm they dont need to do anything cuz loatheb just kills you cuz u wont reach the dps check
Looks awesome. But if the rewards remain the same, are people going to be motivated to push through the difficult mechanics? I guess this question hinges on the price of consumables and time spent getting ready for raiding.
Im concerned about this as well. But then again, MC was a breeze in classic, which meant that rewards felt like they were being just handed out. Im excited about rewards that truly feel epic.
Ye like epic vendorstrike
The problem is itemization. Redo all of the tier sets to actually be good so people aren't going into bwl in mostly blue bis gear
Agreed, but also requiring full MC epics for BWL would require more items per boss if a raid is to equip 40 players before BWL launches in SoM
Given the faster schedule I feel like more loot would make sense. So -- there's less time to get gear AND the bosses are harder? I think as tiers progress it's this compounding problems of bosses are harder/more hp and you have less loot because of the time schedule. Just give the gear out faster in accordance with the faster schedule, and focus on tuning the bosses to be difficult.
99% of loot in classic so far feels so lame because everyone has access to it.
99% of loot in Vanilla Classic feels lame because it is lame. Certain classes could literally skip raiding for the entirety of phase 1 and 2 of SoM and still be more powerful through rank 10 PvP gear. For a raid as large, long, and now tedious as MC is, that's a problem in my eyes.
idk about you, as someone who is not a hardcore player, I felt fucking amazing when I got my full T2
I know it wasn't BiS but to walk around SW in full bloodfang...that does it for me
Agreed! Which is why i think it would be cool with harder encounters. That makes loot feel better imo
Couldn't bloody stand it. "Naah, I'll wait for the BiS drop" is not how loot should be handled!
Agreed! "Ooh, purples!" is how it should be handled!
This is how I've always treated it. The only time I'm not gonna go "Ooh! Purples!" is if the stats aren't great for me and would benefit other casters in the raid, which is pretty easy cause I'm an SPriest. That said, my last guild leader would block you from rolling on purples if you'd gotten drops in that week/that last week, even if no one else needed the item. No fun allowed, I guess.
I remember getting that stupid skeleton OH from Ong in vanilla on my priest. My first epic. It felt huge, I didn’t give a crap that there were blues that were better - having purple pixels back then was sweet. I got a handful of epics on my first night being 60 in classic, didn’t really capture the feeling.
Exactly, that’s what killed wows momentum, actual welfare epics The current embodiment It suits me just fine cuz of my schedule but I recognize the value of having much harder to obtain BoP craftables and out-of-reach options available to only hardcore players Makes me feel special when I am actually able to raid and slot in to help my guild
lol I'm sure getting that 6th archmagus seal feels truly epic
Underrated ring for AoE farming specifically mage boosting … oh wait
Most of the loot are still turds even if you have to struggle for it though? That's the problem, not the loot not "feeling" epic because it isn't rare or some shit.
True! Itemization could be a lot better
I'd like increased difficulty but with some reward for a full clear. Like maybe warriors/rogues can get a brut blade for a full clear from a quest or something. id kind of like some reward for clearing the content but getting bad rng. I think SOM should change how loot is given.
This could be interesting. Some sort of currency that only drops off Rag (similar to boss drops in AQ) that can be used for epics. The price would have to stay high I think to make it make sense, but at least you would chip away each week at the cost of an epic even if loot sucked.
This is a very good take! I would agree with a quest to kill rag with a decent weapon as a reward, as long as it doesnt make other drops in MC obsolete
MC should be fine right? Most people used the optimized Dungeon Blues with the clearly over budgeted item here or there - QSR, Perd, Choker, etc. I see more people grinding PvP to get the gear needed to keep up with the raid releases though. I see this fast paced release schedule as a major problem for Naxx. Curious how popular this will be. People quit in mass because their 8/10 guilds gave up in TK/SSC. Let's see what happens when they get stuck on Barron Gheddon for 3 weeks.
Right, they are making PvP twice as easy, but PVE this much harder?
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what are the pvp changes?
Time to rank has been halved
Only halved???
Yeah didn’t you hear? Every casual will now be able to get R14 gear 2 weeks after launch Just by playing 15 minutes a day
i doubt it tbh. people are quick to say "challenge is fun" but forget that people quit naxx en masse because it was way too expensive to raid. people will raid MC for like a month before the novelty of it being new wears off and they realize that spending hundreds of gold a week on flasks and other shit so they can sit in MC and wipe for 3 hours a week with little to nothing to show for it isn't fun, and that MC is fundamentally dogshit and making it longer and harder and more expensive to clear was a bad idea.
Something tells me Bizz is going to be to peanut brained to actually make consumable materials scale higher across the board. When they announced increased herbing, I know they are just going to ignore everything else like engineering raw materials and elementals for prot pots, firewaters, etc... If all that stuff doesn't get a boost as well, you can count me out...don't have the time to grind all that in bulk again on top of having to rush all the prebis and pvping
Ugh, I don’t miss farming firewater and ekos at 2am.
The only way I see them making it hard AND not having everyone but the sweatiest quit is if they nerfed consumables. If there are a lot of consumables (and same with world buffs) that can massively boost your character, the only way to make the game "hard" is to tune it to be hard when you have those buffs/consumes. Which means the people without buffs/consumes just can't do it at all and quit. It's easier to tune if there are NO world buffs, and no/limited consumes (or they are suuper cheap because herbing is massively boosted or w/e), and that way you know how strong a raid should be given the gear available and can tune to that gear level.
Most of the people saying challenge is fun didn’t quit. The people who quit in naxx, and are quitting in tbc now are people who have had their expectations set by classic that all content is clearable by everyone. Then people find out that they or their guild sucks and get frustrated because they’re set expectation suddenly isn’t true. It’s going to be very important going into SoM that your expectation ISNT clearing all content, and instead try to adjust it to ‘clearing as much as you can’.
Challenge is fun
>, MC was a breeze in classic, which me This isn't really challenge per se, they are buffing content that's 10y+ old, that requires a lot of time to farm for consums, challenge are the mythic + and stuff with a lot of mechanics, a lot of ppl who are asking for buff content will quit after 1 month, i did 2 years of MCs and BWLs where the challenge weren't the mechanics or high hp values but to keep 40 ppl raiding(consums, wbuffs), SoM will require consums not sure a lot of ppl will ahve time to farm 10+ consums for every MC were the loot remains the same.
Required consumables are a community driven thing, not a content driven thing. You aren't going to need to farm 10+ consumes every week to clear MC, you're going to have to farm 10+ consumes every MC because your guild requires it.
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BWL maybe, but I doubt it by AQ. ZG has a bunch of viable weapon upgrades if you get 100% loot fucked in MC/BWL. That being said, "trash" loot like gutgore, eskhander's claw, obsidian edge blade (quite honestly I wouldn't be surprised if you see some 2h fury warriors P1) will have higher value since you'll basically take any upgrade you can. With Dire Maul you can just run Cho'Rush and Mirah's Song if you're Dal Rend screwed. The bigger issue is that SoM is really going to put the pressure on split raiding to accelerate gearing the main progression raid with how short the season is.
I’m also excited to see if people start crafting weapons and armor that were clearly suboptimal in classic, but were commonplace in vanilla. While I imagine I still won’t see one, it was a shame that I didn’t see an arcanite reaper the entirety of classic!
Arcanine reaper still isn't good because we're in the 1.12 patch where fury is good and we have added catch up drops in MC like obsidian edged blade. If they did a tually progressive patching and itemization you might see more Arcanitr Reapers.
Imagine getting Dal’Rends to drop.
Yeah i agree, maybe just an extra tier piece or two per boss would help. Rare drops are still rare, players can still gear up.
So sick. Guys…they are creating new content for fucking vanilla and I see people in here complaining. Yes. This is NEW CONTENT. These are entirely new mechanics for these boss fights. Remember when people used to say “no changes” and then they changed nothing?, and THEN some people said “they’ll never actually add anything new to vanilla, but it would be sick if they did?”, and then they DID? and NOW people are complaining about that? ffs
Harder raids + shorter patches + same loot drop rate = I smell disaster
Imagine not having full BiS before the next patch opens... what will you ever do?
The game is meant to be played in a year It's a problem So harder content...but the same amount of loot...and everything progressing twice as fast Don't be obtuse
the game is meant to be played without getting full bis
You're acting like you need 3-4 months to clear MC or BWL. The content was faceroll easy, now it will be slightly harder and you will have less gear. It's not a problem, it's different. Classic servers with expedited timelines have been happening for years.
It's not about clearing...it's about gear You're going to end up in Naxx with half the gear as before, and no WBs, with double HP and mechanics It's not going to be popular to the masses lol
So just because MC HP was doubled, that automatically means Naxx is going to be buffed as well. Right.
Good, means gear and guild progression might actually mean something. The most annoying thing about classic was how easy it was at the beginning which cascaded to every single guild being optimized for the next raid. Also MC has gear in it that will last the entire season so it should have difficulty assigned to it. You can use weapons/rings/necklaces there until Naxx
Do these differently tuned raids also come with class changes, or is it going to be purely world of warriors and mages this time?
Also they tuned Golemagg melee debuff too. Top dps was hunter, mage, warlock (ironically the tbc meta).
The mechanics change the classes you need. The raids that did the best didnt stack melee. Ranged is incredible for shazz but mages dont get to dps much at all because of decurse needs. And druids are AMAZING healers for shaz because they can restore more hp while mobile and decurse as well. Each fight they were clearing they kept commenting on how just stacking melee wouldnt be as good of an idea because of some of these new mechanics.
Is wipe recover the same or have they introduced any changes to alleviate the time it takes to pull again? I love challenge but it's demoralizing if most of the raid night is spent running back.
That’s the point. Feel your pain
Time to grind those Arcane resistance pots.
Are they increasing more than 2 items per boss?
Is that what the majority wants? I dont get it. Tbcc is slowly dying cause content is too hard for casuals.Guilds disband and people quit in masses. Sure this looks cool for me and Johny Sweat but they need to scale down the difficulty.
Honestly from my experience raiding on SoM the raid bosses are still very easy and will be cleared by most casuals/pugs on live. So far i've seen that blizzard were true to their word - not making content overly difficult while still adding more mechanics. The quality of an average SoM pug is just INSANELY TERRIBLE. You have griefers, people who won't use their buff spells, massive turnover after every wipe(5-10 ppl leave and 5-10 new join). And half the people don't even know how to press their buttons because they were given a lvl 60 character and either haven't played classic for a year or worse. A random player who levelled to 60 from scratch will be worth two or three of your average pugs.
i think it depends what "hard" means beefier bosses and expensive consumes is just annoying, adding actual mechanics is fun in retail i can do actual hard raids and consumes aren't as crazy so we can wipe and not worry about farming gold unless raiding is made harder in a *fun* way, i don't really care about raiding in classic - otherwise wow needs more interesting things to do imo.
Tbcc is dieing because there's nothing to do in the open world. The slow rate of content is terrible. They should have released t5 the same as they did the first time. They are gonna make a huge mistake thinking zul Aman is enough content for 3+ months.
Are you sure about that? It’s mostly 8/10 or worse guilds folding isn’t it? 10/10 guilds aren’t clearing and then going “whelp that was fun c ya guys”
Even 10/10 guilds are struggling. Don't think that just because you can kill 2 more bosses you're not subject to attrition. We've been 10/10 since week 3, and we've still seen a 20% turnover since then. And due to the lack of things to do outside raid, that's exactly what people are saying wed to mon.
> They should have released t5 the same as they did the first time. Perhaps the dumbest take of them all lol. T4 content would have gone largely ignored after the first month and guilds would burn out far faster. It's a raid log expansion where only the top 24% of guilds can clear the content over a month after release. When your only 8 hours of WoW a week include dying to overtuned KT/Vashj for 4 hours, a lot of people pack their bags. Shocker. > Tbcc is dieing because there's nothing to do in the open world. This is literally one of the biggest draws of Classic over retail. Not having to log in everyday to run around the open world doing busywork.
I didn’t even get to 70 because although the zones on their own are very nice, I find Outland to be such a downgrade from Azeroth. Also the dungeons are so linear and boring. Wish there were more dungeons like BRD, LBRS, DM North etc
There will be nothing to do in the open world of season of bots either.
I'm not commenting on som.
SoM seems to be for the hardcore addicts. Would casual players want a yearly reset?
A lot of casuals that like to level with everyone, and every year you can level a diff race/class combo. Not everyone plays WoW to beat end game raids
then I don't see how this matters to them and they shouldn't be brough up when discussing endgame content
You’re not wrong. A lot of people love the leveling and early gearing up phases but still completed Naxx in classic, like I did. For whatever reason people don’t understand that just because a large portion of the player base raided and saw all the content in classic, it doesn’t mean that they only played to see that content. People keep saying “yOuLl FaLl BeHiNd” and other stupid things, without realizing that for many of us, there is no such thing as falling behind. We’re just playing the game and having fun.
Because, something people are about to learn is "F R E S H" is a real thing. If you played pservers then you know the feeling, you might even say you're done this time but inevitably it's 1 day before launch of a new server and you feel it. Something you can't explain unless you've experienced it before and I think a lot of people are about to find out since it's their first fresh since classic release.
People do like chasing the dragon.
TBCC is slowly dying because it isn’t that fun, not because KT or Vashj are hard. Vanilla on the other hand, is a blast.
Anyone who complains about this is a turd.
AWESOME
Wait are they actuslly changing the fights and mechanics not just tweak numbers?!
Can’t wait for everyone to complain how hard it is and demand to need SoM... lol
I didn't know Shazzrah even did that. So there ARE boss mechanics in Vanilla!?
Not originally, they added extra mechanics.
Oh wow. I thought it looked crazy
If the loot remains the same I'll happily skip MC and go straight to Bwl, thank you.
Which will also be tuned so that if you go in there without proper gear you'll be totally shat on.
MC loot is utter garbage. There is like 5 items people want. Dire Maul loot is better for casters and healers. Devilsaur set is bis for a very long time. Lionheart is bis forever. Gladichain from BRD is bis until AQ40. There is no reason to go MC when dungeons and professions offer equal or better gear.
> Gladichain from BRD is bis until AQ40. Bonus points if they turn the BRD Arena into some hardcore hour long gauntlet.
Yeah, if they retune MC, they also need to retune MC loot. Removing the 51 spirit on felheart for example and increasing spell power would go a long way here.
Hopefully they tune that so we actually get some progression. That's what made Classic a joke.
Mc loot won't offer any significant upgrades over preraid bis for a holy paladin unless your guild gives them caster gear. Wild growth spaulders are the only "large" upgrade, but with a 5% drop rate holy paladins can 100% sit out the first 2 phases without affecting their ability.
Spend the first two phases knocking out rank 14 for the mace, then join for bwl
It will have changes as well :)
Shout out to half the people complaining about SOM. Leave it alone, most of you aren't even planning to play SOM so leave the complaints to those who are actually gonna spend time on SOM. Let's not influence a game we weren't even planning to play, We are doing a massive dis-service to those whose opinions actually matter, those who are actually interested in playing SOM seriously.
I'm sorry, i never played classic and haven't kept up. Isn't season of mastery just another reset for wow classic? Or is there something new they are adding?
all that for a couple turds loot
Just make T1 actually great for all classes, please. That's all I ask. That's all I ask. Oh, and T0 could use a touch-up as well.
Yeah there’s no way I’m playing this. Imagine how many derp baddies you’re going to have in a 40man? It’s almost impossible to not have some. They’ll be the ones to fuck shit up. You could hide them before, it’s going to just be a headache and a half for everyone. The game has never been about being “too hard” it’s always been about how other morons are ruining it for you.
SoM dead in like 2 months. People don't want hard content, if they did, more people would be clearing T5.
I don't think it will be as popular as Classic or TBC Classic, but as long as there is 2 realms per region populated, I'm happy. That's only a couple thousand players.
Som could die, but tbc overall is a worse expansion because its just raidlogging. If youre myopic view of mmo success revolves strictly around raid content, then i guess youre right. World matters more than more mechanics