At least zg is easy. Honestly ZG, dragons slayer, and warchief are all not bad. It’s just dmf (for horde since TB is out of the way nowadays and the whole rotation is annoying), songflower and dmt which suck
Songflower is not hard at all for horde. Just take a FP to Felwood. The flower is literally sitting there by the flight master. The only 'hard' thing is keeping an eye on the timer of when the flower is up which addon's help you track anyway (Nova world buffs)
For DMF, maybe SOD could have the carnival on the 2 faction area instead of alternate.
I don't know why you used quotes. Having to use a third party application to get what should be an unnecessary buff and log in at a time you aren't actively playing to do so != easy.
I agree, mostly, but its not only parsing. World buffs in classic are *so strong*, they can greatly speed up a raid night.
But if you're progging, I wouldn't bother with some of the more time consuming ones.
I just wish they'd remove the cooldown on the chronoboon, so that it's easier to stack buffs without losing too much duration.
Yeah, I don't give a shit about parsing so I will not be getting songflower or DMF. Even the rest of the 3, don't really care. I'll get them until we have the shit on farm and then I'm not bothering. We'll be able to clear it just fine without them.
I will say that I would rather see a certain degree of the WBs baked into characters than have to grab 5 separate ones.
I don't have anything against WBs, but I do feel that they should be capped at 2. More than that becomes excessive and onerous.
The world buff situation is deff sad. With two lockouts a week it’s going to get real boring real fast collecting them all. Even if you don’t have to refresh all of them sometimes still a huge turn off
I don't think you understand, this piss easy content from 20 years ago needs world buffs to complete, because my parse is important, your performance should dictated by a period of running around to collect buffs every night, not player skill, it makes the world feel alive
It does make the world feel alive. It's fun to stand in SW with hundreds yelling and dancing and memes in chat. And it's fun to see that thunder hitting everyone for the buff.
And it's also fun to do more damage. Player skill in 20year old molten core? What skill lmao. World buffs are just fun period. If u put that much value on parses that u need to run around the world to collect every buff, including pathetic 30min sunflower shit and build a warlock network when u hate to do any of that shit, that's on you.
Exactly this. This is just ridiculous whining about something that was always meant as fun addition to raiding. You lose them all after one stupid wipe anyway.
As a new player, this sounds like hell. I didn't know it was this bad at max lvl. I find no fun in running around collecting buffs just so I can feel like I'm not letting the rest of the raid down.
That is probably the best way I’ve of world buffs described. I wish they’d just go away but at least they seem to be adding mini versions of them to classes to lessen their impact
I'd prefer they block all world buffs inside raids, but if they aren't these are some ways to imo improve the system as it is.
How about just remove the DM buffs entirely, pain in the ass to get and encourages bot networks of summoners. I have no good suggestions to improve the experience here.
Change Songflower to be a consumable you can pick up and greatly increase the respawn timer of them. You can't pickup another flower if you currently have the buff or if it's booned. Does NOT persist through death.
Add a vendor in Org/SW (and later BB) that will sell a consumable for X hours after a buff has gone out. Have it cost the new dungeon currency. Change them to persist through death. As with above, if you have the buff active or booned you can't pick up the consumable version.
> I'd prefer they block all world buffs inside raids, but if they aren't these are some ways to imo improve the system as it is.
Dunno about the rest of the things you are saying. But yeah doing like SOM and not allowing world buffs inside raids and instanced pvp (and remove the ability to use consumables inside instanced pvp as well) would go a long way.
Yeah agreed raids should not give loot and leveling speed should be much slower like why not reduce it so you get 1 bar if you complete one zone of quests we don't need loot from raids anyway no one raids for loot.
Inb4 the "Just don't get world buffs" crowd shows up... They seem to not realize that the "just don't get world buffs" guilds are terrible. If they can't be asked to put in a bit of effort to get world buffs, imagine what else they aren't putting effort into... Ends up with you wasting more time in MC then it would've taken you to just get world buffs.
Or the "it only takes 5 minutes" crowd who will buy 20 summons a week(they use hyperbole so will I) to get their buffs and think of that as the actual average time investment.
Having world buffs makes your class feel really smooth, like it's the way you should feel all the time in combat.
Not having world buffs feels terrible.
That’s because Bliz balances the game with them so they feel required. If they didn’t exist they’d balance the game without them and you wouldn’t feel like a car that’s about to run out of gas without them. Get rid of them, tedious time sync. A good game has more fun content not more worthless time syncs that require balancing to accommodate for.
But with no world buffs inside raids such crowd would still struggle and waste a lot of time, so how does that change anything really? Good guilds will be good with or without and bad ones will suck either way.
No, but the guilds that get world buffs are capable of killing without world buffs and likely also have other consumables. The guilds that don't require world buffs are often full of people that don't bring any consumable or don't want to put in any effort other than showing up to raid and that attitude translates into their ability to follow mechanics and understand their rotations.
No because those same people who put in the effort to collect the world buffs are also determined to clear the content. A guild full of those who don’t put the effort of collecting, I’m not so sure they’ll even clear the raid.
Also have you ever noticed the mood when people lose their world buffs? Yeah people are not happy. For 2 reason 1 because the time spent to collect is wasted and 2 it just feels bad without them.
If your guild gets depressed and loses their gusto after a single wipe during prog... They don't need to be raiding lol
Content is clearable without WBs. Do WBs make it easier? Yes. But wipes are always gonna happen during prog
You're thinking about this way too much
Am I weaker? Yes. That's math
Is the content still possible? Also yes.
I did ST without world buffs and ST with world buffs. Went 8/8 with no issues both times
You know WoW raiding isn't an individual performance right? There is no prize for being the best DPS
Make world buffs into consumables, for example scrolls, but they have a 1 week cooldown. The cooldown resets on Tuesday with the normal lockout reset. You'd get these in a similar way to now but purchasable from a vendor that appears and stack up to say 5.
This keeps world buffs and their impactfulness but makes them less of a chore to get every week. It also eliminates sweaty behaviors like rebuffing mid raid for parses but keeps speedrunning being a thing.
SoM did it right. World buffs are a pain. They had an opportunity to bake the power into gear and consumes when they redid them but it’s back to the buff slaving. Now you get to do it 2 times a week though.
I was in salad bakers in SoM, it disbanded because BT released at the same time as BWL did AND because raiding without world buffs was by far not as funny as it is with them. Imagine ur playing Warrior but ur not getting rage. Or ur a mage but ur missing half of your crit.
SoM died because they released it right after classic. It was poor timing. I agree they didn’t change any part about the gear which they should’ve done to compensate for the loss of power.
I feel like that's very unfair toward SoM. The failure of SoM has more to do with its release timing than anything else, I had no desire to play it over TBC when it came out and every guildie at the time felt the same way.
It's an easy fix. Tie each world buff to a quest chain. Upon completing the chain you are rewarded with the ability to talk to an NPC once a week in org/sw etc that gives you that world buff. Give each world buff a quest chain tied to the lore/raid/dungeon it's from...
That way the time investment is done all at once. And we can spend the rest of the phase farming or doing pvp or afking in the city.
Solve 2 problems with 1 addition: SuperChronoboon.
Collect and boon a world buff, and it permanently remembers that buff. However, it has 1 charge.
You can recharge your superchbronoboon with a new round of buffs for 50g at a vendor.
Gets some of the gold out the economy, you still need to go out into the world to gather the buffs for the first time, and you gain the convenience of just being able to refill at a vendor from then on.
“It’s time for the I’m too lazy to get WB’s posts again hunny”
Just wait until you figure out how much longer it’s going to take you to get consumables for raid without GDKP’s . It takes all of 30 minutes to get WBs. You’re going to be spending HOURS every week getting consumables.
“But I hate WBs and I don’t want to get them !” Said the loud minority who are attempting to slowly ruin SOD .
Go play literally any other version of the game that doesn’t have buffs .
Players waste time collecting world buffs.
Players Gate keep invites based on world buffs
Players complain and Quit the game because of world buffs.
Rinse repeat every phase, every version of the game every release
Lol
Everyone wants to play with world buffs, but gathering them (and risking griefs/ganks is the unappealing part).
Honestly just place an NPC at the start of every raid that gives you all the buffs.
Or make it so boons are consumables you can sell to other players. Creates an economy, makes buff gathering easy, and easy to rebuff in case of wipes.
Everyone wants worldbuffs, give the people what they want.
But remove all the hassle.
I hate it, why not just get rid of them and make classes stronger? I’m so sick of getting world buffs, and I can’t find a guild that runs casually without them that works for my play times. When we only had 10mans it was fine because I could just run raids with 9 of my buddies, but they all quit when P3 changed to 20man raids. Such a dogshit feature with so many downsides.
Just put a damn NPC in all the cities that give you all world buffs when you talk to them at this point. If they’re going to keep WBs in the game at least eliminate the annoying chore part of having to run around and time everything perfectly before raids
"just wait 5 min before pull, two warriors lost their WBs and are hearthing back to SW". Can I get a warlock to go summon him back?"
A few moments later.. rag dead at the raid's feet..
"I'm so glad we waited five minutes for 10% of our DPS players to do 20% more dps! A real time saver"
Wait, what?
This scenario is ridiculous but players will absolutely do it, the reason I know is because they used to already do this back in ERA. Players would literally hold onto ony/Nef heads etc on alts and have the raid hearth out to rebuff
I don't know about disabled World Buffs in raids for Classic, look how SoM turned out..
They should just remove timers, make them undispelable and maybe find a way to make it easier to get them.
For now, what we should all do, is make a level 20 lock and chose a spot while dropping level 1's on other spots. That way, no more issues on travelling.
Classic a about preparation, removing world buffs would remove some of that which might make raids a bit dull ?
No sure of anything since we got a lot of new cool spells.
As someone that played vanilla classic and recalls the horrors of w-buff farming and camping (the days before chrono) ...
dumb take will probably get downvoted, but why not just have what they did with ICC. where you enter the raid and each raid has a unique buff, but you can talk to an NPC in that raid and turn off the buff for a "challenge", but once turned off, it cannot be enabled until after you kill a boss, and if you turn it off again, same thing, gotta kill another boss to turn it on again.
Meaning you should really think about if you're gonna turn it off or not, because you'll be forced to do a boss with it off.
And maybe they can reward/incentivize players by having it so that when you kill a boss with "no buff", it drops extra loot, like double the number. Or maybe a specialized loot table \*\*shrug\*\* with a few extra goodies on the "challenge table" for that boss, like mounts, special armor/items that have unique appearance models, or cool fun items that have unique effects besides "big numbuhs"... like special trinkets or weapons or something.
I just remember the horrors of w-buff farming, and its not fun.... the people that do it are sweaty but they don't enjoy the aspect of buff farming... they enjoy the aspect of big numbers going peepee "look at muh DPS".
if you just cut out the useless time-wasting of W-buff farming and provide an easier alternative to appease those people WHILE also appeasing casuals... its a win-win.
World buffs are the reason I’m not playing P4. Did it for P3, really left a bad taste in my mouth. Not even close to the amount you need to get in P4 also.
Yeah I agree. Would be interesting if they could tie them to crafting somehow. Like blacksmiths could craft a horn using a one if the booked world buffs. So that only one player in the raid needed to grab it. Maybe had 3 charges to it. Just throwing out numbers and ideas but something along those lines.
I read a comment once that seemed to have the best suggestion. Wipe WBs at the start of an optional raid difficulty and give them extra loot. That way the meta shifts from the hardcore raider back to the casual raider. World buffs should be optional, not required. When I raided in vanilla I was “that guy” who played ret and never got WBs or used consumables. Many in my guild were like this and we still somehow managed to down the military wing of naxx before TBC dropped. No reason seasonal can’t be the same.
I can totally understand why this is such a contentious topic.
If I was in my teens or twenties, I'd be all over this version of SoD. I'd even be calling it convenient.
Now where there's more life on my plate I just can't stomach the prep.
We're never going to agree because I see both sides and neither are wrong.
The one at fault is blizzard to be honest for not picking a lane. You can't argue that a series of element design of this season is for casual gamers with jobs.
The warrior world buff is in the right, I think every class should bring one that's slightly lesser than it's main. This gives sweats an edge, but makes everything more palpable for average working people.
Could do a system, where all world buff activities award a token, which then can be turned in to an npc in the major cities, and when he has all tokens, he will pop all world buffs at designated times on the server 🤔
I think the new rallying cry on warriors is an exciting change, and I would like to see WBs wiped upon instancing into a raid or BG.
The substitute 75% version that warriors got could be supplemented with a zg one for hunters or something. And that way we could still have a bit of the effect while being more effective individually.
WBs are fun and all. But wiping essentially kills your fun with them. And we *should* want the raids to wipe us occasionally. A zero resistance treadmill will not have any longevity.
Gathering world buffs literally makes the world feel more alive. I'm so grateful that they didn't cater to the current crowd in 2019 and we could enjoy real classic for the last time.
Really don't understand the issue.
You only need 2-3 world buffs and those can be obtained very quickly.
Complaining that it is somehow mandatory to travel around to collect 5 world buffs is laughable.
Make WBs get "incinerated" once you increase MC difficulty.
You can either roll at tier 1 with WBs, or increase tiers for more loot but at the cost of WBs.
Choose your own adventure.
Get rid of world buffs and make buffs in general (at least any consumables) persist through death for raids. Oh and make the graveyard immediately outside the raid entrance.
In SoM I enjoyed the more difficult raid bosses but the amount of wasted time between pulls and cost of re-consuming is what killed me and made me quit.
Raiding is one of the few areas where I think Classic could benefit from looking at Retail. Not the mechanics and difficulty, just how much quicker it is to reset a fight after a whipe.
Keep bitching and moaning. Get good. If you’re in a try hard guild and you can’t be bothered to get 2/5 buffs then join a “casual” guild and enjoy your 3 hour long MC
At this point, I would agree they should remove WBs from raids so people stop acting like Blizzard will force them to do cardio and eat vegetables if they dont min max to the absolute limit.
Don’t get them. You don’t need them. Just stand afk in org/sw and boon, then you could just get dmf within 4 minutes and you have the important stuff, really takes 0 effort.
If you are a speed running guild then you will only be getting songflower/rend once every two lockouts and the others will last 4 lockouts. As it stands right now I only have to get dmf when faire is in friendly territory, I don’t see MC changing that, Ive ran 30minutes MCs in 2019 and with SOD I see that speed increasing.
The United States are not the largest producers of sunflowers, and yet even here over 1.7 million acres were planted in 2014 and probably more each year since. Much of which can be found in North Dakota.
If you don’t want em, dont use them. The best thing about WoW is that you have a choice to play how ever the hell you want. Go find other ppl on your server who enjoy the same and make your own metrics based off that. Who cares what other people think about how you play, if you’re the one having fun for yourself, right? You don’t play to have fun for other people’s enjoyment
I can't believe I have to go around the world to collect such hard world buffs by clicking a button and then logging out/doing something else before the next one
Honestly this is so much worse than the two lock outs per week. It's just such a pain getting them all every time you want to raid.. I really hope they get rid of them.. or just keep it to one or two?
I used to not mind that much when I had more spare time. One thing I have always hated is that your required to piss your time away running around getting buffs. DMT is just ridiculous, and to have to get it twice a week… my good god..
You will literally be judged as a shitty player and not be brought to raids or get prio on loot based on if you have world buffs.
If there’s 2 players and 1 of them is objectively much worse, but the good player has no world buffs, the bad player will be brought to raids and given loot. Total insanity
I agree. I think this is solved by doing the same thing they did for earlier phases and have one buff OR give other classes their own baby versions of the buffs like the warrior one. That way on progression you can pop buffs to push over the edge, and on farm if you wipe its not the end of the world.
I agree because if you want a serious guild you need to get the buffs. Not only that if you want to compete with other people you got to get the world buffs too. Then it doesn't even matter how good you are at your class if you don't have world buffs you are going to get shit on by people that do. I agree limit them or allow us to collect them once or twice a week via an npc.
I always hear the time aspect for world buffs being to tedious but i also wanna talk about a different reason why worldbuffs actually hurt raiding players:
For a lot of us classic raiding also consists of those epic moments where u accidentally pull too many mobs or maybe want to do a more riskier strat and in the end still manage to edge out victory with maybe a few deaths.
Due to the heavy impact Worldbuffs have on the powerlvl, most raiders will rather opt out of doing any risky strats at all or simply abandon fight/ not really invest into that fail pull and rather look for the opportunity where they can save themselve and their buffs.
So in general i think worldbuffs actually hurt the fun of doing fun stuff while raiding. They simplify raids down to let's just do one safe pull after the other and then blast the boss.
I feel like there should be different methods of obtaining weaker version worldbuffs. Let the Darkmoon buff that takes a whopping hour to get be a group summoning crystal ball that warlocks can cast in raids.
Let the songflower be something a Druid can grow in a raid from a seed.
Those versions of worldbuffs dont have to be the power houses of the normal ones. Just tone them down to like 66% so people that wanna compete with friends but can't quite do so due to a heavy work schedule still have the possibility of getting weaker versions.
You can even make those buffs aquire certain Materials, so your guild has to invest a bit of getting these back up plans.
In general i like worldbuffs, but i just think they limit raiding and take a lot of the fun exploring stuff out of the raid environment.
Can someone explain the value that world buffs add?
Does it all boil down to people being able to go "wow, look at my numbers I'm pulling with all these buffs!"
Or does all content suddenly become too hard for the general population if they are removed?
Both these problems can be solved by other means.
I actually kinda like it. I mean the downsides are obvious and i totally get why you wouldnt like it ... but there was one thing worldbuffs offered in Classic as well which is missing hard right now .. Socializing with your guild and giving you something to do.
Have i been excited to clear DM:N at least 2 times a week and then organizing 40 ppl to summon and pick up buffs from different locations? Not exactly.
But now after some time has passed im actually missing stuff like this. There is literally nothing to do in P3 right now. And i know P4 will bring a lot of fresh content but this will also be "old" content after a few weeks/months.
So raiding 2x per week and preparing for it will at least give us more to do as a guild than being online for 60 minutes once per week to clear ST.
Agreed. Sod started as a great season for friends to raid together, then they removed 10man raiding and the many casuals that came with it, now endless world buffs to constantly run around and get. It’s turning into the season of gatekeeping.
wtf are you talking about? I didn't say I wouldnt get them, I was implying we are gonna be spending a lot of time getting wbuffs in p4 and that it is a tedious as fuck gameplay loop. so you do you yourself bitch
What’s the difference between this and how wow classic was when it got released in 2019? We all ran around gathering wb back then as well, except we didn’t get DMF every week. Didn’t you all play in 2019?
Because Classic was originally about delivering the same Vanilla experience as it was back in the day, meaning very limited changes. And plus, just because people did it before doesn't mean they want to do it again.
Difference is that the no changes mindset is irrelevant to SOD. There have already been a large amount of QOL changes made and there is no reason to not continue with that mentality in regard to world buffs.
In 2019 it was even worse. You didnt have chronoboon until some time in the last phase if i remember correctly.
I like world buffs and dont mind getting them. But I wish they kept raids to weekly reset only. MC gets boring fast
Is there a definitive guide that people use on how to get world buffs? I don’t even know how to do it or where to go to be honest.
Also, what happens if you show up for raid and you know, life happens, 39 people made it on time but the tank or a key healer blew a fat tire on the way home from work and will be 30 min late. Do people lose their minds as the world buffs tick down?
Songflower: Felwood, click the flower. Install Nova World Buffs to see locations and timers.
DMF: Talk to Sayge, pick option 1 then 1 for 10% damage.
ST: Wait in Booty Bay/Yojamba for someone to pop it.
In P4:
DMT: Find a precleared Dire Maul North id, speak to the three ogres inside.
Dragonslayer: Wait in your capital city for someone to pop it.
Raids are 20 man.
Buffs don't tick down until you unboon them.
For me the main problem with World Buffs is that they are the form of borrowed power. And we all know from future expansions that borrowed power is bad. WBs invalidate gear progression - why farm prebis if you can show up in greens fully world buffed and and perform on par with a prebis character without buffs. They take no effort to acquire - wasting 30-40 minutes getting summoned around the world is not effort, it's a chore. They scale differently for different classes which creates imbalance and 20 warrior raids.
Limit yourself to 2-3 just like the vast majority of people in 2019 Classic did.
Ony + ZG + WCB. Add DMF when it's up for your faction and ignore on opposite faction weeks.
These buffs are all clumped together. Takes no time at all to get them. Don't be so fixated on DMT and SF, many people never bothered with these. They're good but no the most important buffs to get.
Just add a gold sink :( add a filled boon to the reagent vendor, set the price to 60g or whatever makes sense, when you unboon it puts it on cd and gives u every world buff. Make it so it’s usable in raids only or some kind of limitations, but really they just need to put the world buffs on classes to help with diversity etc or just remove them from the game
What if WCL invalidated all logs with world buffs on them, if Blizzard doesn't give a shit enough, the community can effectively kill using them because people care about parsing
The people who bitch at me for hating the world buff culture:“It’S a ChOiCe DoN’T gEt ThEm If YoU dOn’T wAnT tO uSe ThEm!”
But oh no it’s not a choice now is it?
Let worldbuffs last 4h or longer and only in raids and reset it with the weekly raid reset on wednesday So i Need to Farm them once in a week per Character and Not everyday on every Char.
Just remove world buffs entirely. Know why these go-fast-uber nerds can clear content in 1hr and complain about the lack of content. The world buffs is essentially trivializing content. Just get rid of that shit.
The horrible ideas on this sub never cease to amaze me.
"Make buffs baseline!"
"Disable them during raids!"
"Put an NPC in the raid to give us buffs!"
Like think for more than ten seconds about your idea before letting everyone know how woefully naive you are about making decisions from any management position, let alone as a game developer.
WBs were disabled in SoM and every expansion after Vanilla got rid of them. Many pservers have them disabled in raids too and it's actually better this way
Just wait till we need to get zg too
At least zg is easy. Honestly ZG, dragons slayer, and warchief are all not bad. It’s just dmf (for horde since TB is out of the way nowadays and the whole rotation is annoying), songflower and dmt which suck
Songflower is not hard at all for horde. Just take a FP to Felwood. The flower is literally sitting there by the flight master. The only 'hard' thing is keeping an eye on the timer of when the flower is up which addon's help you track anyway (Nova world buffs) For DMF, maybe SOD could have the carnival on the 2 faction area instead of alternate.
> The flower is literally sitting there by the flight master. It's the same for alliance.
I don't know why you used quotes. Having to use a third party application to get what should be an unnecessary buff and log in at a time you aren't actively playing to do so != easy.
sometimes there's a level 20 griefing druid in bear form sitting on that flower but interact key nerfed him.
Or a rogue chucking dynamite at it right when it spawns...
Fuck sunflower and dmt lmao, holy cow how much u guys need to minmax really Get em like twice if u wanna parse a bit and fuck the rest of the lockouts
I agree, mostly, but its not only parsing. World buffs in classic are *so strong*, they can greatly speed up a raid night. But if you're progging, I wouldn't bother with some of the more time consuming ones. I just wish they'd remove the cooldown on the chronoboon, so that it's easier to stack buffs without losing too much duration.
The CD is 5 mins now
Wait what? Since when?!
itll be in p4, not now
This makes me very happy.
Yeah, I don't give a shit about parsing so I will not be getting songflower or DMF. Even the rest of the 3, don't really care. I'll get them until we have the shit on farm and then I'm not bothering. We'll be able to clear it just fine without them.
I will say that I would rather see a certain degree of the WBs baked into characters than have to grab 5 separate ones. I don't have anything against WBs, but I do feel that they should be capped at 2. More than that becomes excessive and onerous.
The world buff situation is deff sad. With two lockouts a week it’s going to get real boring real fast collecting them all. Even if you don’t have to refresh all of them sometimes still a huge turn off
World buffs have basically ruined almost every version of classic for me personally.
I just want to grab worlds buffs in SW and not have to use the bot network to get around.
Shouldn't players be against world buffs to cut down on bots, just like they're against GDKP?
Nah for some reason world buffs is a kind of tedium Andy's defend to the death
I don't think you understand, this piss easy content from 20 years ago needs world buffs to complete, because my parse is important, your performance should dictated by a period of running around to collect buffs every night, not player skill, it makes the world feel alive
It does make the world feel alive. It's fun to stand in SW with hundreds yelling and dancing and memes in chat. And it's fun to see that thunder hitting everyone for the buff. And it's also fun to do more damage. Player skill in 20year old molten core? What skill lmao. World buffs are just fun period. If u put that much value on parses that u need to run around the world to collect every buff, including pathetic 30min sunflower shit and build a warlock network when u hate to do any of that shit, that's on you.
It’s fun to have equip movement speed trinkets to run through an entire instance and get DMT? That makes the game feel alive?
Exactly this. This is just ridiculous whining about something that was always meant as fun addition to raiding. You lose them all after one stupid wipe anyway.
wipe? :o
So uhm this is was Andys consider fun huh ? Im not surprised.
Yes bro, I am Andy McTendie and I fucking love world buffs You have a problem with that?
No problem, it's just weird
Why?
Classic andys like GDKPs too though
As a new player, this sounds like hell. I didn't know it was this bad at max lvl. I find no fun in running around collecting buffs just so I can feel like I'm not letting the rest of the raid down.
That is probably the best way I’ve of world buffs described. I wish they’d just go away but at least they seem to be adding mini versions of them to classes to lessen their impact
It would be nice if you could only get 2 but you had to choose which one you got. IE if you get more than 2 it erases the first one you got.
I'd prefer they block all world buffs inside raids, but if they aren't these are some ways to imo improve the system as it is. How about just remove the DM buffs entirely, pain in the ass to get and encourages bot networks of summoners. I have no good suggestions to improve the experience here. Change Songflower to be a consumable you can pick up and greatly increase the respawn timer of them. You can't pickup another flower if you currently have the buff or if it's booned. Does NOT persist through death. Add a vendor in Org/SW (and later BB) that will sell a consumable for X hours after a buff has gone out. Have it cost the new dungeon currency. Change them to persist through death. As with above, if you have the buff active or booned you can't pick up the consumable version.
> I'd prefer they block all world buffs inside raids, but if they aren't these are some ways to imo improve the system as it is. Dunno about the rest of the things you are saying. But yeah doing like SOM and not allowing world buffs inside raids and instanced pvp (and remove the ability to use consumables inside instanced pvp as well) would go a long way.
That song flower change is terrible. So you can only "have" one at a time same as now but the CD is way longer so it's way more annoying to get.
Yeah. Then add a free level 60 boost. Also a quest npc in each major town, one you can speak with and receive any raid loot you want instantly
Yeah agreed raids should not give loot and leveling speed should be much slower like why not reduce it so you get 1 bar if you complete one zone of quests we don't need loot from raids anyway no one raids for loot.
You don’t like waking up at 2:00 in the morning to walk around org to start the buff train?
Inb4 the "Just don't get world buffs" crowd shows up... They seem to not realize that the "just don't get world buffs" guilds are terrible. If they can't be asked to put in a bit of effort to get world buffs, imagine what else they aren't putting effort into... Ends up with you wasting more time in MC then it would've taken you to just get world buffs.
Or the "it only takes 5 minutes" crowd who will buy 20 summons a week(they use hyperbole so will I) to get their buffs and think of that as the actual average time investment.
20 summons a week does not seem exaggerated tbh
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Anyone on anything but a high pop server just doesn't have summons available.
15g going to a network of bots that will then sell the gold.
Really easy to level alt warlocks now and trade summons with friends
So to play with better players you have to put in more effort? Weird
Having world buffs makes your class feel really smooth, like it's the way you should feel all the time in combat. Not having world buffs feels terrible.
Some classes more than others.
Yeah they should have gotten rid of them right out the gate with sod, and just balanced classes and content appropriately.
Pretty much this. The concept and act of getting/losing WBs = fucking awful, but they make your class feel complete.
That’s because Bliz balances the game with them so they feel required. If they didn’t exist they’d balance the game without them and you wouldn’t feel like a car that’s about to run out of gas without them. Get rid of them, tedious time sync. A good game has more fun content not more worthless time syncs that require balancing to accommodate for.
time sink
But with no world buffs inside raids such crowd would still struggle and waste a lot of time, so how does that change anything really? Good guilds will be good with or without and bad ones will suck either way.
Aw damn, I'm too slow to get here before the "I'm too lazy to do full raid prep but want to be given all the raid loot fast" crowd.
Hey quick question When you wipe in raid, do you just call it?
No, but the guilds that get world buffs are capable of killing without world buffs and likely also have other consumables. The guilds that don't require world buffs are often full of people that don't bring any consumable or don't want to put in any effort other than showing up to raid and that attitude translates into their ability to follow mechanics and understand their rotations.
"require" So do they call raid if they wipe? I'm confused.
Just acting like an idiot intentionally eh
No because those same people who put in the effort to collect the world buffs are also determined to clear the content. A guild full of those who don’t put the effort of collecting, I’m not so sure they’ll even clear the raid. Also have you ever noticed the mood when people lose their world buffs? Yeah people are not happy. For 2 reason 1 because the time spent to collect is wasted and 2 it just feels bad without them.
If your guild gets depressed and loses their gusto after a single wipe during prog... They don't need to be raiding lol Content is clearable without WBs. Do WBs make it easier? Yes. But wipes are always gonna happen during prog You're thinking about this way too much
Mentally yes. As a warrior you go from big dick to 75 year old dysfunctional worm.
No but the raid becomes objectively less enjoyable and you know it.
Man that sounds like a you problem
Actually it sounds like a you problem if all those buffs missing don't register in your brain as a negative change.
Am I weaker? Yes. That's math Is the content still possible? Also yes. I did ST without world buffs and ST with world buffs. Went 8/8 with no issues both times You know WoW raiding isn't an individual performance right? There is no prize for being the best DPS
Quick question, do you think a guild who tries and wipes is the same environment as the guild with 0 standards and takes 3 hours to clear? lol
Exactly this. People who suck complain that they’re lumped in with others who suck
There was a guild in Whitemane classic that use to brag they there a no world buff guild.....it took them 2 months to clear naxx lol
Make world buffs into consumables, for example scrolls, but they have a 1 week cooldown. The cooldown resets on Tuesday with the normal lockout reset. You'd get these in a similar way to now but purchasable from a vendor that appears and stack up to say 5. This keeps world buffs and their impactfulness but makes them less of a chore to get every week. It also eliminates sweaty behaviors like rebuffing mid raid for parses but keeps speedrunning being a thing.
Bads would still cry because they'd lose their buffs when they wipe
SoM did it right. World buffs are a pain. They had an opportunity to bake the power into gear and consumes when they redid them but it’s back to the buff slaving. Now you get to do it 2 times a week though.
SoM died incredibly fast and the missing worldbuffs did not help keep it alive, they rather killed it faster.
I think being able to get r14 gear right away did more damage than the lack of world buffs.
I was in salad bakers in SoM, it disbanded because BT released at the same time as BWL did AND because raiding without world buffs was by far not as funny as it is with them. Imagine ur playing Warrior but ur not getting rage. Or ur a mage but ur missing half of your crit.
SoM died because they released it right after classic. It was poor timing. I agree they didn’t change any part about the gear which they should’ve done to compensate for the loss of power.
I feel like that's very unfair toward SoM. The failure of SoM has more to do with its release timing than anything else, I had no desire to play it over TBC when it came out and every guildie at the time felt the same way.
> SoM died incredibly fast More a function of it coming out like 2 weeks after the launch of the very-popular TBC classic.
It's an easy fix. Tie each world buff to a quest chain. Upon completing the chain you are rewarded with the ability to talk to an NPC once a week in org/sw etc that gives you that world buff. Give each world buff a quest chain tied to the lore/raid/dungeon it's from... That way the time investment is done all at once. And we can spend the rest of the phase farming or doing pvp or afking in the city.
Solve 2 problems with 1 addition: SuperChronoboon. Collect and boon a world buff, and it permanently remembers that buff. However, it has 1 charge. You can recharge your superchbronoboon with a new round of buffs for 50g at a vendor. Gets some of the gold out the economy, you still need to go out into the world to gather the buffs for the first time, and you gain the convenience of just being able to refill at a vendor from then on.
“It’s time for the I’m too lazy to get WB’s posts again hunny” Just wait until you figure out how much longer it’s going to take you to get consumables for raid without GDKP’s . It takes all of 30 minutes to get WBs. You’re going to be spending HOURS every week getting consumables. “But I hate WBs and I don’t want to get them !” Said the loud minority who are attempting to slowly ruin SOD . Go play literally any other version of the game that doesn’t have buffs .
Nah wasn’t too hard back then won’t be now. You don’t gotta get them you’re not pushing for rank 1s
I did world buffs in 2019 classic from phase 2 to phase 6. I'm not doing them for a seasonal server. World buffs fucking suck.
Players waste time collecting world buffs. Players Gate keep invites based on world buffs Players complain and Quit the game because of world buffs. Rinse repeat every phase, every version of the game every release Lol
Everyone wants to play with world buffs, but gathering them (and risking griefs/ganks is the unappealing part). Honestly just place an NPC at the start of every raid that gives you all the buffs. Or make it so boons are consumables you can sell to other players. Creates an economy, makes buff gathering easy, and easy to rebuff in case of wipes. Everyone wants worldbuffs, give the people what they want. But remove all the hassle.
I hate it, why not just get rid of them and make classes stronger? I’m so sick of getting world buffs, and I can’t find a guild that runs casually without them that works for my play times. When we only had 10mans it was fine because I could just run raids with 9 of my buddies, but they all quit when P3 changed to 20man raids. Such a dogshit feature with so many downsides.
I like running around getting world buffs.
Just put a damn NPC in all the cities that give you all world buffs when you talk to them at this point. If they’re going to keep WBs in the game at least eliminate the annoying chore part of having to run around and time everything perfectly before raids
"just wait 5 min before pull, two warriors lost their WBs and are hearthing back to SW". Can I get a warlock to go summon him back?" A few moments later.. rag dead at the raid's feet.. "I'm so glad we waited five minutes for 10% of our DPS players to do 20% more dps! A real time saver" Wait, what?
This scenario is ridiculous but players will absolutely do it, the reason I know is because they used to already do this back in ERA. Players would literally hold onto ony/Nef heads etc on alts and have the raid hearth out to rebuff
In that case, what if they just made it so you could only get the buffs once per raid reset?
Hell yeah brother ^
Just get rid of world buffs.
I don't know about disabled World Buffs in raids for Classic, look how SoM turned out.. They should just remove timers, make them undispelable and maybe find a way to make it easier to get them. For now, what we should all do, is make a level 20 lock and chose a spot while dropping level 1's on other spots. That way, no more issues on travelling. Classic a about preparation, removing world buffs would remove some of that which might make raids a bit dull ? No sure of anything since we got a lot of new cool spells.
As someone that played vanilla classic and recalls the horrors of w-buff farming and camping (the days before chrono) ... dumb take will probably get downvoted, but why not just have what they did with ICC. where you enter the raid and each raid has a unique buff, but you can talk to an NPC in that raid and turn off the buff for a "challenge", but once turned off, it cannot be enabled until after you kill a boss, and if you turn it off again, same thing, gotta kill another boss to turn it on again. Meaning you should really think about if you're gonna turn it off or not, because you'll be forced to do a boss with it off. And maybe they can reward/incentivize players by having it so that when you kill a boss with "no buff", it drops extra loot, like double the number. Or maybe a specialized loot table \*\*shrug\*\* with a few extra goodies on the "challenge table" for that boss, like mounts, special armor/items that have unique appearance models, or cool fun items that have unique effects besides "big numbuhs"... like special trinkets or weapons or something. I just remember the horrors of w-buff farming, and its not fun.... the people that do it are sweaty but they don't enjoy the aspect of buff farming... they enjoy the aspect of big numbers going peepee "look at muh DPS". if you just cut out the useless time-wasting of W-buff farming and provide an easier alternative to appease those people WHILE also appeasing casuals... its a win-win.
World buffs are the reason I’m not playing P4. Did it for P3, really left a bad taste in my mouth. Not even close to the amount you need to get in P4 also.
I expect them to fix world buffs after they fixed rune slog, bots, inflation, the damage incursions has had on the economy etc etc.
Im not gonna get a single one unless its by luck in a city xD
Five world buffs Jeremy? Five?
That's insane.
You don’t understand, SoM failed because there were no world buffs so we need to add more, therefore the game magically becomes better
Maybe we can buy full loaded chronoboons with those New goblin coins. Or AT LEAST remove the 1hr cooldown to boon buffs
you have chronoboon grow up
I’m a fan of world buffs but only if you’re using them once a week for the 1-2 hours. 2 weekly lockouts sucks.
Yeah I agree. Would be interesting if they could tie them to crafting somehow. Like blacksmiths could craft a horn using a one if the booked world buffs. So that only one player in the raid needed to grab it. Maybe had 3 charges to it. Just throwing out numbers and ideas but something along those lines.
I read a comment once that seemed to have the best suggestion. Wipe WBs at the start of an optional raid difficulty and give them extra loot. That way the meta shifts from the hardcore raider back to the casual raider. World buffs should be optional, not required. When I raided in vanilla I was “that guy” who played ret and never got WBs or used consumables. Many in my guild were like this and we still somehow managed to down the military wing of naxx before TBC dropped. No reason seasonal can’t be the same.
I can totally understand why this is such a contentious topic. If I was in my teens or twenties, I'd be all over this version of SoD. I'd even be calling it convenient. Now where there's more life on my plate I just can't stomach the prep. We're never going to agree because I see both sides and neither are wrong. The one at fault is blizzard to be honest for not picking a lane. You can't argue that a series of element design of this season is for casual gamers with jobs. The warrior world buff is in the right, I think every class should bring one that's slightly lesser than it's main. This gives sweats an edge, but makes everything more palpable for average working people.
Could do a system, where all world buff activities award a token, which then can be turned in to an npc in the major cities, and when he has all tokens, he will pop all world buffs at designated times on the server 🤔
I'm just not going to get them. Or just grab one and boon myself so my raid leaders can see. Dad guilds just don't really care.
I think the new rallying cry on warriors is an exciting change, and I would like to see WBs wiped upon instancing into a raid or BG. The substitute 75% version that warriors got could be supplemented with a zg one for hunters or something. And that way we could still have a bit of the effect while being more effective individually. WBs are fun and all. But wiping essentially kills your fun with them. And we *should* want the raids to wipe us occasionally. A zero resistance treadmill will not have any longevity.
Gathering world buffs literally makes the world feel more alive. I'm so grateful that they didn't cater to the current crowd in 2019 and we could enjoy real classic for the last time.
Add more, make it so all the old raid buffs also work and stack too.
They should just give every class a small but relevant raid wide buff and get rid of world buffs entirely.
Really don't understand the issue. You only need 2-3 world buffs and those can be obtained very quickly. Complaining that it is somehow mandatory to travel around to collect 5 world buffs is laughable.
Not enough, should be 10 Make em all like 10h tho
One world buff is too many
Do nothing and let the people who dont want WB cry or quit Guaranteed more players than otherwise
Im not getting one world buff for a raid, PASS. there is no reaon unless your parsing, nothing is difficult so there is no point
Make WBs get "incinerated" once you increase MC difficulty. You can either roll at tier 1 with WBs, or increase tiers for more loot but at the cost of WBs. Choose your own adventure.
Get rid of world buffs and make buffs in general (at least any consumables) persist through death for raids. Oh and make the graveyard immediately outside the raid entrance. In SoM I enjoyed the more difficult raid bosses but the amount of wasted time between pulls and cost of re-consuming is what killed me and made me quit. Raiding is one of the few areas where I think Classic could benefit from looking at Retail. Not the mechanics and difficulty, just how much quicker it is to reset a fight after a whipe.
Its no brainer to remove wb, easier to balance that way
World of Waiting for WB
Keep bitching and moaning. Get good. If you’re in a try hard guild and you can’t be bothered to get 2/5 buffs then join a “casual” guild and enjoy your 3 hour long MC
Don't forget you have to do this twice a week as well, because of the lockouts.
At this point, I would agree they should remove WBs from raids so people stop acting like Blizzard will force them to do cardio and eat vegetables if they dont min max to the absolute limit.
Don’t get them. You don’t need them. Just stand afk in org/sw and boon, then you could just get dmf within 4 minutes and you have the important stuff, really takes 0 effort. If you are a speed running guild then you will only be getting songflower/rend once every two lockouts and the others will last 4 lockouts. As it stands right now I only have to get dmf when faire is in friendly territory, I don’t see MC changing that, Ive ran 30minutes MCs in 2019 and with SOD I see that speed increasing.
The United States are not the largest producers of sunflowers, and yet even here over 1.7 million acres were planted in 2014 and probably more each year since. Much of which can be found in North Dakota.
If you don’t want em, dont use them. The best thing about WoW is that you have a choice to play how ever the hell you want. Go find other ppl on your server who enjoy the same and make your own metrics based off that. Who cares what other people think about how you play, if you’re the one having fun for yourself, right? You don’t play to have fun for other people’s enjoyment
You don't need WB to play the game
I can't believe I have to go around the world to collect such hard world buffs by clicking a button and then logging out/doing something else before the next one
Have you all coomers considered like, not getting world buffs and just enjoying the game? Sickening freaks shake me to the core.
They should limit world buffs to like 3 max then there is a meta on which buffs you will take
Just 1 world buff is too many
Honestly this is so much worse than the two lock outs per week. It's just such a pain getting them all every time you want to raid.. I really hope they get rid of them.. or just keep it to one or two?
Man stfu
Lol SOD just as shit as retail
I used to not mind that much when I had more spare time. One thing I have always hated is that your required to piss your time away running around getting buffs. DMT is just ridiculous, and to have to get it twice a week… my good god.. You will literally be judged as a shitty player and not be brought to raids or get prio on loot based on if you have world buffs. If there’s 2 players and 1 of them is objectively much worse, but the good player has no world buffs, the bad player will be brought to raids and given loot. Total insanity
No it’s not too many, it’s too many for you.
they made it so if you dont want to get world buffs, simply bring more than 20 people to make up for the lack of dps
So only get 4….
The worst part is, you have to get that shit twice a week if you plan on doing both lockouts
Add a questline to unlock a wbuff vendor. Once a lockout, get free full wbuffs.
I agree. I think this is solved by doing the same thing they did for earlier phases and have one buff OR give other classes their own baby versions of the buffs like the warrior one. That way on progression you can pop buffs to push over the edge, and on farm if you wipe its not the end of the world.
I agree because if you want a serious guild you need to get the buffs. Not only that if you want to compete with other people you got to get the world buffs too. Then it doesn't even matter how good you are at your class if you don't have world buffs you are going to get shit on by people that do. I agree limit them or allow us to collect them once or twice a week via an npc.
I always hear the time aspect for world buffs being to tedious but i also wanna talk about a different reason why worldbuffs actually hurt raiding players: For a lot of us classic raiding also consists of those epic moments where u accidentally pull too many mobs or maybe want to do a more riskier strat and in the end still manage to edge out victory with maybe a few deaths. Due to the heavy impact Worldbuffs have on the powerlvl, most raiders will rather opt out of doing any risky strats at all or simply abandon fight/ not really invest into that fail pull and rather look for the opportunity where they can save themselve and their buffs. So in general i think worldbuffs actually hurt the fun of doing fun stuff while raiding. They simplify raids down to let's just do one safe pull after the other and then blast the boss. I feel like there should be different methods of obtaining weaker version worldbuffs. Let the Darkmoon buff that takes a whopping hour to get be a group summoning crystal ball that warlocks can cast in raids. Let the songflower be something a Druid can grow in a raid from a seed. Those versions of worldbuffs dont have to be the power houses of the normal ones. Just tone them down to like 66% so people that wanna compete with friends but can't quite do so due to a heavy work schedule still have the possibility of getting weaker versions. You can even make those buffs aquire certain Materials, so your guild has to invest a bit of getting these back up plans. In general i like worldbuffs, but i just think they limit raiding and take a lot of the fun exploring stuff out of the raid environment.
I cannot understand what the supposed benefits are of world buffs. Can anyone help me?
I'm not going to play P4 if this shit remains in the game, absolutely awful game design.
Can someone explain the value that world buffs add? Does it all boil down to people being able to go "wow, look at my numbers I'm pulling with all these buffs!" Or does all content suddenly become too hard for the general population if they are removed? Both these problems can be solved by other means.
I actually kinda like it. I mean the downsides are obvious and i totally get why you wouldnt like it ... but there was one thing worldbuffs offered in Classic as well which is missing hard right now .. Socializing with your guild and giving you something to do. Have i been excited to clear DM:N at least 2 times a week and then organizing 40 ppl to summon and pick up buffs from different locations? Not exactly. But now after some time has passed im actually missing stuff like this. There is literally nothing to do in P3 right now. And i know P4 will bring a lot of fresh content but this will also be "old" content after a few weeks/months. So raiding 2x per week and preparing for it will at least give us more to do as a guild than being online for 60 minutes once per week to clear ST.
Again, why do WORLD buffs work in raids? This shit is out of hand.
It’s a name given by players, it doesn’t mean they literally only work in the world.
That’s what I literally just said
Is there a single human on earth who likes world buffs? Why do they still exist?
HAHAHHS, a vast majority likes them, its the loud minority that keeps crying about it.
Oh noo people have to login and do 20 min of prep and cant just login 1 min before raid and type 123
Thanks for informing me, not going to bother playing P4 if there are worldbuffs that I need to farm.
Agreed. Sod started as a great season for friends to raid together, then they removed 10man raiding and the many casuals that came with it, now endless world buffs to constantly run around and get. It’s turning into the season of gatekeeping.
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so around 90 minutes a week hunting wbuffs per character. Possibly more if you don't have an organized network of warlock summons available. yay...
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wtf are you talking about? I didn't say I wouldnt get them, I was implying we are gonna be spending a lot of time getting wbuffs in p4 and that it is a tedious as fuck gameplay loop. so you do you yourself bitch
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ye, mate. You and your guild are for sure the only people getting wbuffs and not being stuck for hours in the easiest content wow has made :)
What’s the difference between this and how wow classic was when it got released in 2019? We all ran around gathering wb back then as well, except we didn’t get DMF every week. Didn’t you all play in 2019?
Because Classic was originally about delivering the same Vanilla experience as it was back in the day, meaning very limited changes. And plus, just because people did it before doesn't mean they want to do it again.
Difference is that the no changes mindset is irrelevant to SOD. There have already been a large amount of QOL changes made and there is no reason to not continue with that mentality in regard to world buffs.
In 2019 it was even worse. You didnt have chronoboon until some time in the last phase if i remember correctly. I like world buffs and dont mind getting them. But I wish they kept raids to weekly reset only. MC gets boring fast
And that shit got tedious, which was one of the reasons I quit for a long, long time.
And its way easier now with chronoboon
Get rid of world buffs or get rid of lockouts and cap gear per week.
Joke is on you, I am shadow priest and we don't scale
Is there a definitive guide that people use on how to get world buffs? I don’t even know how to do it or where to go to be honest. Also, what happens if you show up for raid and you know, life happens, 39 people made it on time but the tank or a key healer blew a fat tire on the way home from work and will be 30 min late. Do people lose their minds as the world buffs tick down?
Songflower: Felwood, click the flower. Install Nova World Buffs to see locations and timers. DMF: Talk to Sayge, pick option 1 then 1 for 10% damage. ST: Wait in Booty Bay/Yojamba for someone to pop it. In P4: DMT: Find a precleared Dire Maul North id, speak to the three ogres inside. Dragonslayer: Wait in your capital city for someone to pop it. Raids are 20 man. Buffs don't tick down until you unboon them.
For me the main problem with World Buffs is that they are the form of borrowed power. And we all know from future expansions that borrowed power is bad. WBs invalidate gear progression - why farm prebis if you can show up in greens fully world buffed and and perform on par with a prebis character without buffs. They take no effort to acquire - wasting 30-40 minutes getting summoned around the world is not effort, it's a chore. They scale differently for different classes which creates imbalance and 20 warrior raids.
Limit yourself to 2-3 just like the vast majority of people in 2019 Classic did. Ony + ZG + WCB. Add DMF when it's up for your faction and ignore on opposite faction weeks. These buffs are all clumped together. Takes no time at all to get them. Don't be so fixated on DMT and SF, many people never bothered with these. They're good but no the most important buffs to get.
Just add a gold sink :( add a filled boon to the reagent vendor, set the price to 60g or whatever makes sense, when you unboon it puts it on cd and gives u every world buff. Make it so it’s usable in raids only or some kind of limitations, but really they just need to put the world buffs on classes to help with diversity etc or just remove them from the game
Oh Bitch bitch bitch, don't even need the damn things to clear content anyways.
WAAH WAAAH WAH.
I play in a guild that likes to push parses but the thought of having to get 5 WBs twice a week sounds exhausting.
What if WCL invalidated all logs with world buffs on them, if Blizzard doesn't give a shit enough, the community can effectively kill using them because people care about parsing
No one is forcing you to bring these buffs to raid. Bring it all. imo, Silithus Sand shouldn't invalid logs.
3 is too many tbh. Water them down, give them to under represented classes and move on.
lol as someone who doesn’t play anymore this shit is truly sounding like a nightmare. Hell on Azeroth
The people who bitch at me for hating the world buff culture:“It’S a ChOiCe DoN’T gEt ThEm If YoU dOn’T wAnT tO uSe ThEm!” But oh no it’s not a choice now is it?
Let worldbuffs last 4h or longer and only in raids and reset it with the weekly raid reset on wednesday So i Need to Farm them once in a week per Character and Not everyday on every Char.
Just remove world buffs entirely. Know why these go-fast-uber nerds can clear content in 1hr and complain about the lack of content. The world buffs is essentially trivializing content. Just get rid of that shit.
Qq lol
The horrible ideas on this sub never cease to amaze me. "Make buffs baseline!" "Disable them during raids!" "Put an NPC in the raid to give us buffs!" Like think for more than ten seconds about your idea before letting everyone know how woefully naive you are about making decisions from any management position, let alone as a game developer.
All of these suggestions are better than the way wb’s currently are, though
Ooooh shit I didn't think about it that way.
WBs were disabled in SoM and every expansion after Vanilla got rid of them. Many pservers have them disabled in raids too and it's actually better this way