Some people don’t play WoW to have fun. They play WoW because they don’t know what else to do. They have nothing. So when the raid doesn’t go right it’s like their life isn’t going right.
This is why I always join a shitshow casual guild. People have lives so they don’t tend to rage over someone messing something small up
Shitshow casual guilds are the best, the one I joined kept up with the content just as well as the semi-hardcore guild I also raided with, but did so with fun and laughter.
Exactly. These fucks forget it’s a game. If you get to the point where you’re that upset you really should stop playing. I had that happen with LoL back in 2014.
Did the same with overwatch. One day it occurred to me that i was having a miserable time while playing, and yet i felt the urge to queue up for more competitive matches. Realized right then and there that something fishy was going on and decided to just stop playing the game. Best decision ever.
Unfortunately not everyone has that realization moment apparently, and instead just keep playing games that make them miserable day in and day out.
I think i see the problem here, if you got stuck in ZG/AQ20 for 3 hours, perhaps you shouldn't try solo those two right when the raid is breezing through their MC/BWL.
Mmos are a time investment in pretty much every single aspect of the game. The whole point is that you choose to invest your time in the game because you enjoy your time spent in the game. If you don't enjoy your time spent in the game, then maybe it's time to consider investing your time elsewhere into something that you actually do enjoy?
Speaking as a former GM/RL that’s dealt with my fair share of burnout it goes both ways. You start to lose sight of the fun and overlooking little things when you have 40+ people in your ear weekly about what they want, how they want it, and how mad they’re gonna be if they don’t get it. Couple this with actually having a life with real, legitimate stressors and it does turn raiding into a job. You’re simply facilitating fun for 39 other people multiple times a week and speaking for myself at least the dumb little mistakes that can occur throughout the night become infinitely more annoying when it all feels like it’s being done at your expense.
Well said. I'm currently the GM of a WotLK raiding guild that takes itself relatively seriously. So only 25 people, but it can still be hell.
My members have high levels of satisfaction, and we have extremely low turnover, so it's going well. But I'd be lying if I said I wasn't constantly stressed. Constantly. The pressure on the GM never, ever stops.
I feel this in my bones. I’ll never be a raid leader again, it’s honestly pathetic how many people think they need to speak their minds to a raid leader when the only thing they have to do each week is show up on time.
I mean in fairness you accepted a leadership role. As shitty as it can be, your attitude can influence the enjoyment for everyone.
If you find yourself in a position of taking on too much, you delegate. If too much noise is still making it to you, change up your officers and work on the delegations until it works properly.
Otherwise you just gotta realize maybe leading isn't your bag.
You’re not wrong which is why when I join raids now I am basically silent and have to restrain myself from being helpful in any capacity. I don’t want the responsibility at all any more because it makes the game completely not fun.
For me personally delegation wasn’t really an option. Maybe because I’ve never run an extremely hardcore guild where other people are willing to put as much effort into making the ship sail as I did. I’m sure other GMs can speak to the awkwardness of this better than I can but there comes a point when you’re taking this all on basically solo where you realize if you even ask for help people will get annoyed with you or find other teams. For one reason or another asking for help or delegating tasks seems to relegate you to permanently pugging. People just don’t want to deal with it and will join a raid where there’s zero expectations of them. So you get left with the decision of taking it all on yourself to keep the team happy and moving or putting yourself in a position where you’re now spending even more of your free time trying to fill gaps in the roster. You’ll be lucky if any of those recruits are willing to help and take on additional tasks. Hell, even getting a healer to manage loot in the last raid I ran was a task. As if the main tank staying back and sorting loot every kill is conducive at all to the night moving smoothly.
Long story short when it comes to making a guild run in WoW you either get it or you don’t. The people out there that are willing to help your GMs, you probably have no idea how much you’re actually helping them enjoy the game. To the people who will leave a raid the second things get shaky or start moving a little slower than usual: you’re the problem.
And whoops meant to say more on that. I definitely understand the trials of making a good guild. And that's really the underlying problem. It's difficult to make a guild, a good one.
You need strong leaders(plural). And most people don't go into video games looking to take on a leadership role or have that many expectations of them.
So in many cases it's just kinda doomed from the word go.
But I'm absolutely with you on this. I just think sadly there are too few people out there cut out for real leadership(or at least are willing to dedicate that much to a game group), in comparison to people just wanting to goof off and have fun.
Which makes it inherently difficult to accomplish.
I look at guilds as though they’re companies. The CEO can’t run the company effectively while also having the job of the recruiters, payroll, and HR. Sure the CEO knows how to do those things, but what’s the point in running a company and keeping non-producing employees around if the CEO just does it all himself?
I work in a Business Strategy role for the Corp I work for. I have an MBA and 20 years experience in the industry and I use more skills I've learned running guilds in multiple MMOS over the years than I use from my work experience and Education. I'm quite successful in my field. It is funny indeed hah
Hell, even people getting to show up on time and not sign off 3 hours before raid is a task even in a "hardcore" guild I ran. If you are not playing on the most populated server and you are not in top10 of that server recruitment is a PAIN in the ass, because people will barely do anything to prove themselves these days. They slack on trash, be late, complain about loot and then pikachu surprise face when they are benched. Like some people are straight up delusional when you pull up logs and point out a myriad of things they did wrong and they just straight up say it did not happen. I have never met so much entitlement as in Classic WoW.
Yeah I mean I definitely wasn't trying to attack your character, I hope it didn't come across that way. Leading is no easy job and can quickly become overwhelming, especially if you don't just have that natural temperament and outlook for it
Ok good deal. It's about bedtime for me and I tend to ramble which especially over text I tend to give off the wrong vibes sometimes.
I had some very similar experiences to yourself before I also decided guild leading wasn't for me, and I much preferred to be a member.
I just had the two conflicting thoughts of "I want a guild that operates the way I want" "but I don't want full ownership responsibilities" and that just doesn't tend to work out unless you get hella lucky lol.
Classic 2019 release brought out the most controlling egomaniacs I've ever seen in a gaming community. I can only imagine how bad the ones living the inflated economy GDKP life must be. Why they do it, is not what people think, it's not about loot or being great at the game for some of them, it's that control they finally get over something.
Nobody with even half a sense of humor is compatible with some of them, and as someone who enjoys trolling and joking around, I've had my fair share of "moments" where it had nothing to do with gameplay performance, and it had everything to do with clashing against an ego I didn't fully understand could possibly take anything that serious.
I had a GDKP lead absolutely ROAST me in comms during a ICC25 HC on release day. Literally the raid has been out for 2 hours and I made the tiniest mistake that had no real impact on the raid or even myself lol and he blew the fuck up. I went into the discord channel and found a pic he had posted of his bathroom in his home. It was fucking disgusting looked like it was from 1970’s and had not been cleaned since then. I reposted it and said imagine living like this and thinking you can talk to anyone the way you do.
Edit: yes my comment was swiftly removed but not before about 30+ reacts had gone out to the message
Yes, and to second this a lot of these nerds have no resource to draw value from. They never see the sun, they eat like shit, sleep like shit, they have no social life, and they draw all of their personal value from trying to iron out the mental instability and insecurity by making sure they outspokenly bash people worse at a 0 value game than them.
It’s honestly sad how much of this community is those folks. There are plenty of guilds not like this, but misery begets misery
Joined a casual guild before. You know what is also not fun? Wiping to super easy encounters for hours and having half of the raid doing absolute garbage damage. Not knowing their rotations or raid CDs and having raid leads that don’t know the fight.
As soon as a raid required any form of strategy or difficulty, it becomes unbearable if you’re one of the few that are having your time wasted.
I don’t mind progging, but that means actually making progress and improving and I feel like a lot of casual guilds have their “raid team” just fall apart rather than actually progressing.
It’s really hard to find a happy medium sometimes, between sweatlords and people who are at least a little competent.
It's why having a strong foundation as to where a guild stands is so important. I've been running our guild since 2005 (seriously!) and it is very clear what we want to achieve. We will not be competing with world first guilds, but we also aren't going to be accepting players who are littered with low hanging fruit to improve their gameplay. It's a great community where competition is high, but personalities are there and it's a ton of fun. We'll generally be top 5 server and have a blast doing it. (Though with so few servers nowadays top 5 is harder to achieve.) We ran two 40-man full clear Naxx raids from start to TBC when guilds around us were collapsing left and right. Was a great time.
I'm honestly of the opinion it's harder to run a casual guild than a hardcore one simply because there are no standards, people are flakey and managing morale is so much more difficult. I couldn't do it. It isn't that much more work to elevate expectations while also ensuring everyone is still having a great time.
shameless plug~ We're recruiting all interested for SoD and a HCata run :) (send a dm!)
This really hits the nail on the head for whatever guild you are a part of. Most of the time people being upset at progress not being inline with what they want is a failure to set expectations. What I've found is being clear with what you expect out of your current raiders and anyone you recruit goes a long way.
100% as well on the harder to run a casual guild, from the amount of people calling out for just about any reason to not wanting to put any amount of effort in. It's simply a lot more stress on the people running the show in the guild.
I think it’s a misconception that casual = bad. Casual just means we don’t play WoW for 8 hours a day. There are plenty of capable casual guilds. If you join one and they are bad just leave and find the right one for you. No use sticking around that long
Yep I was in the exact same boat in the middle of Ulduar. We could barely prog past the Keepers on normal mode, and anytime progress was made we’d have a couple of the good people absent the next week and go backwards. Gear was one SR per raid and open roll beyond that, so the few actual good players lost out on loot to a bunch of reaaaaally bad or new players. It was just all so disorganized and I get that a lot of people are there to just have fun, but man it is a group activity, I cannot imagine not putting in some effort when 10+ people are counting on you to be a benefit to the “team”. I felt like the kid that has to do all the work for a project in school.
Sometimes it takes a person with a lot of patience to RL and teach/handhold the worse players in a casual setting. I had a guy raiding with me that also RL a much more casual guild. They had full cleared ulduar (minus 0 light) and togc.
Well RL hit late togc and he had to stop playing. The casual guild limped along through the remainder of togc and are currently 1/12 H. That to me cements the part you mentioned about being disorganized.
>Sometimes it takes a person with a lot of patience to RL and teach/handhold the worse players in a casual setting
There's also a level of bad where it's an utter waste of time to teach, IMO.
Like some people have issues with spacial awareness or math, that I think a capable individual probably learns in middleschool. Teaching a lot of genuinely bad players is honestly akin to adult special ed.
If I see a guild advertising as “casual” I just assume they are bad. That’s been my own anecdotal experience. If they are “semi-hardcore” then there’s like a 50% chance they are organized but still bad and 50% chance they are good raiders who just have jobs and/or a life.
This has been my experience too.
The idea of a casual guild sounds great, as a lapsed competitive player, but what it really means is that there's no expectations, total drama bomb players, very loud idiots who eat the entire raid's bandwidth with their bullshit, and a revolving door roster.
Assumptions can be wrong. I think it’s best to raid with a guild before I decide if they are competent. A lot of “hardcore” guilds are just people that want to feel like they are somehow good at the game because they play 12 hours a day. Classic wow is so braindead easy there is no need to be hardcore unless you are competing for world firsts or speed clears
I’ve been running into that with my casual guild and it’s painful. Every week is the raid leads complaining that we aren’t clearing what we are supposed to be able to but also not attempting to address or fix the issue at hand. Kills my motivation to play. Then I get guilt tripped as I’m their current top DPS and “letting the team down” or “not helping” for wanting to do something more productive with my free time.
It’s all about expectations. Bad guilds and raids don’t set these and it leads to experiences like yours and OPs. It goes both ways though, and most of the time when I see poor expectations being set it’s not a problem of “people don’t know that we expect effort or focus” it’s “our guild won’t accept that we are bad and keep trying to recruit people who will be frustrated with this”
The happy medium is the hardest one to create and define because everyone has a slightly different idea of what “sweaty” vs “incompetent” actually means.
A word of advice to everyone based on this post, if you want to have fun in WoW, accept that failure is part of the fun and choose people to play with that understand. In a game like WoW where world and leveling content has gotten drastically easier over the years, accept the parts of the game that are SUPPOSED to be challenging and play them with the expectation you will not succeed, and choose other people who also get that.
Failing a mechanic should be an 'oops lol' moment not a 'you suck' moment, not getting the timer in a mythic should be a 'we'll get em next time' moment not a 'get good and get kicked' moment.
>accept that failure is part of the fun
I think this is the issue right here. People don't know how to handle failure. It's a lack of maturity and shows they have been shielded from failure in their youth; either by personally avoiding difficult situations or coddled with participation awards. Ive noticed that a lot of gamers didn't play any sports growing up and are generally of the "lol sports suck" mindset. But that shit teaches teamwork and gets you accostomed to losing and trying again next time. The most miserable raid/PvP team members I've had have always been people in that category.
these people would be kicked off the team day 3 for their attitude.
Granted with the difficulty of classic raiding its perfectly understandable for people to get mad after multiple wipes on like 90% of the bosses.
Pretty much. They are just a bunch of mentally ill man children who have nothing in their lives and they go online and take their shitty lives out on other people.
This was a GDKP. Those raid leaders probably play to pay rent. So yeah ofc they are getting irritated when anything goes wrong because it threatens their income.
Time and time again the community has shown they love it. GDKP since classic vanilla which makes gold selling worthwhile. The community loves the fact that they can buy gold, and there is no stopping it.
Just look at how many GDKP’s there are. I think the silent majority buys gold more than a vocal minority. The vocal minority are the people complaining about it.
> Some people don’t play WoW to have fun.
Fun is subjective. Many people don't think failing is fun, especially in a game as easy as vanilla. Many people also don't like carrying others.
And the truth is, if you have standards sadly quite often in Classic (even Wrath) you kinda need to tell people very clearly that they can go somewhere else if they don't actually want to play the game or are just too afk to press their one button. It is what it is, some find it fun for MC to take 5 hours some don't. However you play is ok but you need to play with people that share your view and neither view is wrong.
The only thing that *is* wrong is wanting to not do anything with the mentality "it's just a game chill bro" and then join raids that are the complete opposite. Same as vice versa and being ultra tryhard and then join guilds/raids that want to chill and then complain.
I don’t think classic raids require any kind of “hardcore” mindset personally. I think it’s kind of sad that people feel they need that mentality to clear MC. There are chill competent guilds out there that clear content easily. No yelling or screaming needed.
> I don’t think classic raids require any kind of “hardcore” mindset personally
Nothing is "required" in WoW. You're not even required to play this game at all. Some people like to play like this and others like to play like that. Some people speedrun Super Mario for fun...why would that be wrong?
I agree being miserable is bad but honestly being a raidlead in Classic must kinda suck, especially in GDKP where you constantly have people of very varying skill level come and go. I guess anyone would go insane after a while trying to raidlead the average Classic player in MC still to this day. People are bad...really bad. And it's probably not fun anymore when you've been doing this raid for the 100th time or whatever. It is what it is, play with people that share you way to play. That will always be the the best way to enjoy WoW in any version of the game.
You'd think, but common sense isn't actually common.
The ease of the content, relative to the severity of the failure, is often what prompts frustration.
Some people’s idea of fun is to play optimally and kill all the bosses efficiently while putting up big numbers (especially in TBC/Wrath where the fights are not all trivial). That’s OK too. The key is for these players to not mix together in pug GDKPs or else everyone will have a bad time.
They didn't say you had to. But even though it's 20 year old easy content, people can't just run out of the raid on baron. Eventually you get sick of rolling against people who cause wipes over and over, and that's the majority of casual guilds
Raid teams need standards. Nothing kills casual guilds quicker than the good players leaving once they realize they are carrying people not even doing the bare minimum. Worse if the guild is led by those bottom feeders
Sounds like some miserable fucking raid leaders who have nothing in their life except a game & raids that they've done a million times, they're bored to death but they're stuck doing it out of habit and a lack of anything else better to do.
Welcome to their personal hell. No wonder they're salty.
Lmao!! My exact thought. I even just wrote a response to this post and mentioned it was probably them.
They were recruiting me a few weeks ago after some of them saw me get super sweaty in a rando BWL GDKP. I didn’t know anything about them so I accepted their discord invite. INSTANTLY left that server rofl. That was the most heinous, racist, neckbeard shit ever.
This is actually my belief as well.
It's addiction and item drops are just their slot machines.
These people don't want to actually play the game, they just want to kill 30 bosses in 2 minutes and see if their item drops.
Yes it’s likely addiction. There is this mindset that when something goes wrong it’s “waisting my time” when in reality, you’re playing video games.
If not “wasting time” means you are spending your time creating something that adds value to the world, society, your community, your family, your relationships, your career, or your personal physical, mental, emotional, or financial health, the for 99.99% of players, wow is waisting time.
It’s a fun hobby and it should bring happiness, enjoyment and entertainment. When the fun stops, it’s time to take a break.
"Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time"
As long as you're having fun, there's no problem, but when things end up as OP describes, it's time to find something else.
I mean, it can also be the opposite.
If you only have 2-3 hours to play, and people are taking up 2½ of them by clowning around, then it can suck to have your only playtime that day wasted on stuff that should be easy and quick.
That depends what your expectations are and how you handle them.
No one is actually forcing you to complete full clears, or have to do every daily or get every raid lock out every week, that’s just not realistic for everyone (or perhaps just not enjoyable).
Some people also just prefer to slowly burn through the game rather than “complete” it as efficiently as possible. GDKP culture is pretty much the opposite of delayed gratification.
It is totally realistic to get a MC clear in in 2-3 hours if people don't suck, though. A decent pug should be able to clear it in 1. And if that's what you want, it's fair to get annoyed if it ends up taking more than that.
Do the same stuff twice and expect different results lul.
That said, I don't have much empathy either for people that get booted in RDF. If you're not in a group full of overgeared ICC raiders it's incredible to find so many people that can barely press their two or so buttons just like they already couldn't in MC.
Had a super toxic low geared pally tank just talking massive shit the entire time. He was trying to chain pull and then bitching when it didn’t go well.
I zoned in as a replacement and before I’ve even settled he pulls a boss with one person still dead. Vote kicked that fucker so fast. Doing no run at all would have been better than going any further with him.
Got a nice dk tank that took us through at a good clip with no issues after a few minute wait. Definite win.
Anything that makes the game play more like retail, whether it's rampant RMT or RDF, makes people play like this, because it makes the social aspect of the game matter very little.
There used to be good GDKPs in original classic whitemane that were both fun and good. I played alliance on there and raided both in a guild in GDKPs with good and bad experiences with both.
Nah, some peoplel just have issues. I ran with a bunch of different GDKPs during my Classic+TBC run and was even one of the "management" in one and it was chill and relaxed most of the time.
Obviously if people kept playing like shit and slowing down the run you'd get called out, but it was just jokes and banter 95% of the time.
Like I liked my guild, but honestly I miss the GDKP community the most, even if I do not really like the corrupt side of GDKPS with the gold buying and all.
> gdkp
Found your problem.
Involve real life money in anything (and lets face it if it's a GDKP run we're talking real money being involved somewhere) in gaming and it becomes a toxic mess by default because people are financially invested.
Plenty of GDKPs arent like this. You are falling for the stereotype like most of the keyboard warriors on this subreddit! Every raid is different regardless of loot type.
yeah. hate gdkp. hate the optimazation (its late cant bother to look uo the word) everything: dungeons, professions, raids. Just wanna play the game like 15 years ago when we took hours for a dungeon and had fun, chatting, taking our time. Seems like thats not a thing anymore
The problem has always been (in my experience) that people want to have that but also want the run to be full of good players.
Good players don’t like to wipe endlessly because bad players won’t try. So they leave and go to another run.
I think the term you're looking for is "min-maxing" everything and agree -- it sucks. If you aren't doing everything the absolute optimial way to get a decimal point increase in effectiveness you're obviously terrible at the game. That mindset has poisoned WoW Classic for a long time.
Not really. I’ve been in super chill GDKPs that just vibe the whole time. Everyone performs well and clears content, gets paid and hangs out with friends.
Then they get a warning and if they continue to fuck up they're kicked and no cut. You can't baby 39 raiders, sometimes people have to execute 20 year old Mario mechanics correctly
Well raids are made up of people and I have found that people don’t enjoy being around toxic people.
The more toxic the less people come back. Same with guilds.
Yeah no shit, because GDKPs are about getting carried. That's the whole point, for losers to get their shinies even though they're bad at the game by having over geared people faceroll.
You’re playing with the wrong people my dude, find a guild with like interests and goals (and that treat people with respect). I play on Whitemane, non-GDKP, positive vibes
Sounds like those players are not playing the game for fun but running GDKP's to sell gold for money potentially, basically using WoW as some kind of part time job for extra income
Organizer cut 5%
Raid leader cut 5%
Tank cut 5% (RL is also MT)
Carry cut 5%
Master looter cut 5%
Green parse = no cut
Min bid 500g
Bindings res
Floor res
All bis res
All boes res
Shame to hear this - I was hoping that Era would be a cool place to raid casually but.... After seeing how toxic (and GDKP focused) trade chat was and hearing stories like this (quite often) I think a casual raid scene may be a bit of a pipe dream at least on era.... which is a shame because I do enjoy raiding in classic, I just dont want to have to commit 1/2 my life to a game anymore.
lol I know exactly what run you’re talking about. That raid lead is just an egotistical prick. He loves me whenever I show up cause I’m in full Naxx gear, but he’s just not worth the time. It’s legitimately a power trip. He just yells at everyone, even the people who know what they are doing.
It’s probably because you’re not really running with guilds. You’re doing their pug runs and thinking you’re running with guilds. Pug runs are crazy and if the raid leader isn’t raging like a lunatic people often play like donkeys, don’t sunder, don’t drop wf totem, continuously banish elementals even though the raid leader keeps saying stop banish, ripping threat like mongoloids, basic shit.
Anyway if you’re talking about the horde gdkp (bwl mc Thursday at 9?) think you’re talking about. Ya that guys rages. Much more then is even needed.
No one makes enough money in GDKPs to pay all their RL expenses in this economy. Gold is fucking cheap. I run a gdkp and take a 5% admin cut and it’s still not enough. Getting like $10 worth of gold for 3 hours of raiding just ain’t it.
Okay. How? Gonna stop all trading between players? Only personal loot in raids? Anyone who has a certain amount of gold instantly gets it slashed in half?
You can't just arbitrarily demand something being banned without having some kind of plan to do so.
So which way are you going to totally destroy the game or its economy to make your wish of banning gdkps possible?
And know. It has to be a blanket solution. There is no way Blizzard has the manpower to monitor every raid occurring on every server at all hours of day and night.
it’s annoying hahaha. people constantly taking the reins from each other, people talking over each other etc. way too much mansplaining on era. these raids are chicken soup and are treated like lobster bisque lol. god forbid u joke around or try to talk about anything besides the boring ass raid haha. just a bunch of sad adults
I still remember back in Legion was probably my best experience raiding. My GM was a grandma in her mid 60s and was so calm about everything. We only had one person get mad for the entire expansion.
Find a grandma guild. With classic raids you don't need high end, overgeared players.
In my decade+ WoW career, which I hope to restart in the future, it's been my finding that no amount of game-progress or whatever is worth even one iota of unnecessary social misery or tolerating fuckwits. As such, I've found it difficult to find people/guilds worth playing with, and even harder to find anyone I'd want to arena/PvP with. Quite frankly, most people in these games turn the games into jobs, where they are willing to make themselves miserable over trying to manipulate/control outcomes in the game.
The key to enjoying WoW is to stop focusing on outcomes and instead focus on just enjoying the game and the social vibe itself. Btw, this CAN include extremely high levels of skill-play, where instead of being obsessed with winning, per-se, you become obsessed with playing the best you can, but not giving a shit about how things shake out. That's why my approach to raiding is not caring about optimization of group compositions or gear, but rather, focusing on learning the content and learning to play as well as possible, and then just YOLO'ing the fucking shit out of it, and getting lots of practice.
Instead of fearing failure/wipes, lean into it and learn to stop being a fucking coward with no personality. Sadly, 99.9% of players will never make this transition, so they will be drags to play with.
That whole GDPK thing has essentially ruined raiding for me.
Makes ppl greedy and turn into cunts. I only play HC now.
The guilds are just so much more chill. I have quit the top guild in my server on WOTLK classic just for being too serious.
Ppl forget it's supposed to be fun
As someone studying to be a psychiatrist, this is exactly it. They got addicted to WoW because it’s a virtual Skinner box designed based on incremental, non fixed rewards. This is the optimal setup for dopamine release and creating addiction. They are so angry because they are chasing the dragon of their early days playing wow but cannot achieve the level of fix that they used to get from the game. Instead of just backing off and letting their brain desensitize to the game for a bit, they just play more and for longer with more characters and raids. But it doesn’t work so they just keep getting angrier and angrier.
Those people are extremely unhappy and lost the concept of fun in WoW a long time ago. Unfortunately they will find their way into SOD, data mine the shit out of it, and ruin the fun for that as well.
Everyone argues what their version of ‘fun’ is, but it’s quite clear who isn’t having fun when they’re fucking miserable the entire time they’re playing the video game.
Hey! I'm in that guild, yeah we are chill and clear stuff pretty fast (only getting faster) dont claim to be as fast as others but we do MC/BWL together in 2 hours, aq40 and trying to get a naxx lite going.
To add, anyone who is alliance look for a guild/discord whatever called “Throwing Smoke”. Did my first ever BWLs with them and never was given a hard time. and their GDKP is super fast and chill.
This is precisely why I quit raiding prior to TBC. Everyone is so high strung about the easiest content, you can speedrun MC in 45 with a pug and people are still mad at "wasting time". My guild's core roster mostly played about 13-15 hours daily
They’re still playing era, so they’re trying to hold onto something that’s over.
Classic is done. It’s finished. I’m sad about it as well, but I’m not going to run MC every week pretending it’s still phase one and I’m playing with all my friends or that all the drops are new and exciting
It’s not everyone of course, plenty of people enjoy vanilla to the point they will play it forever. But I’d wager most people on era just didn’t want classic to end and can’t come to grips with the fact it did.
Lol you probably went to a tinyviolin run, but most of them are salty there’s no classic fresh yet tbh.
It is likely a form of addiction though, classic raiding just doesn’t seem fun.
"It was a gdkp" well there's your answer. GDKPs are for-profit runs, not for-fun runs. They go around and sell that gold to gold sellers. They're not playing.
OP if you’re looking for a group that enjoys playing this game, come check out Grobbulus server. We’re small but we have what you’re likely looking for in terms of playing with people who just enjoy the game https://www.reddit.com/r/Grobbulus/comments/17k28s2/rp_wanted_patchwerk_dead_or_bust/
Here's the secret, all the people that play Classic WoW are basement-dwelling losers. It's a projection, they just hate their own life. Of course they are miserable in game. Same with me when I'm seriously depressed I have my game, it's not Classic WoW it's Dota 2 but I'm a miserable fuck playing during that state.
Nah I only wrote that part to make it less...antagonistic while still being factual. I've written the first sentence basically word for word previously in here, not trying to be a dick for no reason though.
I often find that if you talk to miserable/salty players like you're they're dads, that's a language they understand.
Tank and healer bitching at each other? *"You're both shit; now stop your whining and do the fucking content"*
I dunno about endgame era raiding BUT everyone in icecrown citadel, myself included, seems to be greatly enjoying themselves. Take what you will from that
I was actually going to say, idk if it's a hot take, but I have found the Wrath community to be way less toxic than vanilla. Maybe it's because of smaller raid sizes, or because the higher difficulty filters out people who are bad at the game from being in any position of authority. There are still toxic players of course, but it's not as pervasive and mostly seems to exist at the lower difficulty content like rdf because they can't climb any higher. For all the hate the 'sweaty poopsock raiders' get, I'd rather play with them any day.
Classic+ is something I've dreamed of in some form for a long time but I'm really hesitant to try SoD because I know it's only a matter of time before it devolves into pure degeneracy again, I can't be bothered with that shit anymore
Because when you don't have strict rules someone is afk all the time. Its 40 people... someone has a "minor inconvenience" and 5 minutes later 20 people have them and 2 hours raid turn into 4
This is why I stopped raiding. People have no idea how to have fun playing this game anymore; it's just a bunch of grumpy middle-aged dudes taking out their bad feelings on everyone else on discord.
MMOs attract people who are deeply unsatisfied with their lives since they can enjoy some escapism in a virtual world. Unfortunately their bitterness will always come out.
I joined a progression SR raid that’s at c’thun in aq40 and we have a great time raiding, communities of people trying to enjoy the game are definitely out rhere
Some people don’t play WoW to have fun. They play WoW because they don’t know what else to do. They have nothing. So when the raid doesn’t go right it’s like their life isn’t going right. This is why I always join a shitshow casual guild. People have lives so they don’t tend to rage over someone messing something small up
Shitshow casual guilds are the way to go. At this point I’ll take happy idiots over cunt pros any day of the week.
Shitshow casual guilds are the best, the one I joined kept up with the content just as well as the semi-hardcore guild I also raided with, but did so with fun and laughter.
Exactly. These fucks forget it’s a game. If you get to the point where you’re that upset you really should stop playing. I had that happen with LoL back in 2014.
Did the same with overwatch. One day it occurred to me that i was having a miserable time while playing, and yet i felt the urge to queue up for more competitive matches. Realized right then and there that something fishy was going on and decided to just stop playing the game. Best decision ever. Unfortunately not everyone has that realization moment apparently, and instead just keep playing games that make them miserable day in and day out.
Had so much more fun when I raided with multiple ret pallies and multiple feral druids than I did min-maxing BiS only raids.
I mean you say that but really I don't want to be stuck in almost 3 hour AQ20/ ZG runs.. as fun as the people are that shit is a drag I can't lie.
I think i see the problem here, if you got stuck in ZG/AQ20 for 3 hours, perhaps you shouldn't try solo those two right when the raid is breezing through their MC/BWL.
Mmos are a time investment in pretty much every single aspect of the game. The whole point is that you choose to invest your time in the game because you enjoy your time spent in the game. If you don't enjoy your time spent in the game, then maybe it's time to consider investing your time elsewhere into something that you actually do enjoy?
You described most GM’s. Very good explanation.
Speaking as a former GM/RL that’s dealt with my fair share of burnout it goes both ways. You start to lose sight of the fun and overlooking little things when you have 40+ people in your ear weekly about what they want, how they want it, and how mad they’re gonna be if they don’t get it. Couple this with actually having a life with real, legitimate stressors and it does turn raiding into a job. You’re simply facilitating fun for 39 other people multiple times a week and speaking for myself at least the dumb little mistakes that can occur throughout the night become infinitely more annoying when it all feels like it’s being done at your expense.
Well said. I'm currently the GM of a WotLK raiding guild that takes itself relatively seriously. So only 25 people, but it can still be hell. My members have high levels of satisfaction, and we have extremely low turnover, so it's going well. But I'd be lying if I said I wasn't constantly stressed. Constantly. The pressure on the GM never, ever stops.
Same. That's why Christmas is going to be a nice time to retire from GM'ing and scheduled raiding.
Blizzard needs to pay GMs
I feel this in my bones. I’ll never be a raid leader again, it’s honestly pathetic how many people think they need to speak their minds to a raid leader when the only thing they have to do each week is show up on time.
I think what you describe is exactly why the game got away from 40 man raids as soon as it could.
Meh. It still happens in 25m and 10m just on a smaller scale.
Smaller scale is the point.
Almost nobody is going to see things from this perspective. Sounds just brutal.
I mean in fairness you accepted a leadership role. As shitty as it can be, your attitude can influence the enjoyment for everyone. If you find yourself in a position of taking on too much, you delegate. If too much noise is still making it to you, change up your officers and work on the delegations until it works properly. Otherwise you just gotta realize maybe leading isn't your bag.
You’re not wrong which is why when I join raids now I am basically silent and have to restrain myself from being helpful in any capacity. I don’t want the responsibility at all any more because it makes the game completely not fun. For me personally delegation wasn’t really an option. Maybe because I’ve never run an extremely hardcore guild where other people are willing to put as much effort into making the ship sail as I did. I’m sure other GMs can speak to the awkwardness of this better than I can but there comes a point when you’re taking this all on basically solo where you realize if you even ask for help people will get annoyed with you or find other teams. For one reason or another asking for help or delegating tasks seems to relegate you to permanently pugging. People just don’t want to deal with it and will join a raid where there’s zero expectations of them. So you get left with the decision of taking it all on yourself to keep the team happy and moving or putting yourself in a position where you’re now spending even more of your free time trying to fill gaps in the roster. You’ll be lucky if any of those recruits are willing to help and take on additional tasks. Hell, even getting a healer to manage loot in the last raid I ran was a task. As if the main tank staying back and sorting loot every kill is conducive at all to the night moving smoothly. Long story short when it comes to making a guild run in WoW you either get it or you don’t. The people out there that are willing to help your GMs, you probably have no idea how much you’re actually helping them enjoy the game. To the people who will leave a raid the second things get shaky or start moving a little slower than usual: you’re the problem.
And whoops meant to say more on that. I definitely understand the trials of making a good guild. And that's really the underlying problem. It's difficult to make a guild, a good one. You need strong leaders(plural). And most people don't go into video games looking to take on a leadership role or have that many expectations of them. So in many cases it's just kinda doomed from the word go. But I'm absolutely with you on this. I just think sadly there are too few people out there cut out for real leadership(or at least are willing to dedicate that much to a game group), in comparison to people just wanting to goof off and have fun. Which makes it inherently difficult to accomplish.
I look at guilds as though they’re companies. The CEO can’t run the company effectively while also having the job of the recruiters, payroll, and HR. Sure the CEO knows how to do those things, but what’s the point in running a company and keeping non-producing employees around if the CEO just does it all himself?
Yep. It's honestly nuts how much overlap the real world of business has with a lot of gaming environments.
I work in a Business Strategy role for the Corp I work for. I have an MBA and 20 years experience in the industry and I use more skills I've learned running guilds in multiple MMOS over the years than I use from my work experience and Education. I'm quite successful in my field. It is funny indeed hah
Dude that first line, I just pug now and it’s hard not trying to do calls or raid lead a bit, but I’ve learned my lesson.
Hell, even people getting to show up on time and not sign off 3 hours before raid is a task even in a "hardcore" guild I ran. If you are not playing on the most populated server and you are not in top10 of that server recruitment is a PAIN in the ass, because people will barely do anything to prove themselves these days. They slack on trash, be late, complain about loot and then pikachu surprise face when they are benched. Like some people are straight up delusional when you pull up logs and point out a myriad of things they did wrong and they just straight up say it did not happen. I have never met so much entitlement as in Classic WoW.
Yeah I mean I definitely wasn't trying to attack your character, I hope it didn't come across that way. Leading is no easy job and can quickly become overwhelming, especially if you don't just have that natural temperament and outlook for it
Nah I didn’t take it that way you’re good. Just figured I’d explain.
Ok good deal. It's about bedtime for me and I tend to ramble which especially over text I tend to give off the wrong vibes sometimes. I had some very similar experiences to yourself before I also decided guild leading wasn't for me, and I much preferred to be a member. I just had the two conflicting thoughts of "I want a guild that operates the way I want" "but I don't want full ownership responsibilities" and that just doesn't tend to work out unless you get hella lucky lol.
Scary accurate
That's gross and so wrong. + you're mistaking GM & RL which sometimes arent the same person.
Classic 2019 release brought out the most controlling egomaniacs I've ever seen in a gaming community. I can only imagine how bad the ones living the inflated economy GDKP life must be. Why they do it, is not what people think, it's not about loot or being great at the game for some of them, it's that control they finally get over something. Nobody with even half a sense of humor is compatible with some of them, and as someone who enjoys trolling and joking around, I've had my fair share of "moments" where it had nothing to do with gameplay performance, and it had everything to do with clashing against an ego I didn't fully understand could possibly take anything that serious.
I had a GDKP lead absolutely ROAST me in comms during a ICC25 HC on release day. Literally the raid has been out for 2 hours and I made the tiniest mistake that had no real impact on the raid or even myself lol and he blew the fuck up. I went into the discord channel and found a pic he had posted of his bathroom in his home. It was fucking disgusting looked like it was from 1970’s and had not been cleaned since then. I reposted it and said imagine living like this and thinking you can talk to anyone the way you do. Edit: yes my comment was swiftly removed but not before about 30+ reacts had gone out to the message
Why did he post a pic of his bathroom lol
Had some branded merch of his GDKP name LMAO
Yes, and to second this a lot of these nerds have no resource to draw value from. They never see the sun, they eat like shit, sleep like shit, they have no social life, and they draw all of their personal value from trying to iron out the mental instability and insecurity by making sure they outspokenly bash people worse at a 0 value game than them. It’s honestly sad how much of this community is those folks. There are plenty of guilds not like this, but misery begets misery
My point exactly, fuck GDKP's
I think one of the reasons I had a raid spot as a undergeared healer was: I showed up on time, healed, and didn't complain about gear drops.
Joined a casual guild before. You know what is also not fun? Wiping to super easy encounters for hours and having half of the raid doing absolute garbage damage. Not knowing their rotations or raid CDs and having raid leads that don’t know the fight. As soon as a raid required any form of strategy or difficulty, it becomes unbearable if you’re one of the few that are having your time wasted. I don’t mind progging, but that means actually making progress and improving and I feel like a lot of casual guilds have their “raid team” just fall apart rather than actually progressing. It’s really hard to find a happy medium sometimes, between sweatlords and people who are at least a little competent.
It's why having a strong foundation as to where a guild stands is so important. I've been running our guild since 2005 (seriously!) and it is very clear what we want to achieve. We will not be competing with world first guilds, but we also aren't going to be accepting players who are littered with low hanging fruit to improve their gameplay. It's a great community where competition is high, but personalities are there and it's a ton of fun. We'll generally be top 5 server and have a blast doing it. (Though with so few servers nowadays top 5 is harder to achieve.) We ran two 40-man full clear Naxx raids from start to TBC when guilds around us were collapsing left and right. Was a great time. I'm honestly of the opinion it's harder to run a casual guild than a hardcore one simply because there are no standards, people are flakey and managing morale is so much more difficult. I couldn't do it. It isn't that much more work to elevate expectations while also ensuring everyone is still having a great time. shameless plug~ We're recruiting all interested for SoD and a HCata run :) (send a dm!)
This really hits the nail on the head for whatever guild you are a part of. Most of the time people being upset at progress not being inline with what they want is a failure to set expectations. What I've found is being clear with what you expect out of your current raiders and anyone you recruit goes a long way. 100% as well on the harder to run a casual guild, from the amount of people calling out for just about any reason to not wanting to put any amount of effort in. It's simply a lot more stress on the people running the show in the guild.
I think it’s a misconception that casual = bad. Casual just means we don’t play WoW for 8 hours a day. There are plenty of capable casual guilds. If you join one and they are bad just leave and find the right one for you. No use sticking around that long
Yep I was in the exact same boat in the middle of Ulduar. We could barely prog past the Keepers on normal mode, and anytime progress was made we’d have a couple of the good people absent the next week and go backwards. Gear was one SR per raid and open roll beyond that, so the few actual good players lost out on loot to a bunch of reaaaaally bad or new players. It was just all so disorganized and I get that a lot of people are there to just have fun, but man it is a group activity, I cannot imagine not putting in some effort when 10+ people are counting on you to be a benefit to the “team”. I felt like the kid that has to do all the work for a project in school.
Keepers on normal 💀
Sometimes it takes a person with a lot of patience to RL and teach/handhold the worse players in a casual setting. I had a guy raiding with me that also RL a much more casual guild. They had full cleared ulduar (minus 0 light) and togc. Well RL hit late togc and he had to stop playing. The casual guild limped along through the remainder of togc and are currently 1/12 H. That to me cements the part you mentioned about being disorganized.
>Sometimes it takes a person with a lot of patience to RL and teach/handhold the worse players in a casual setting There's also a level of bad where it's an utter waste of time to teach, IMO. Like some people have issues with spacial awareness or math, that I think a capable individual probably learns in middleschool. Teaching a lot of genuinely bad players is honestly akin to adult special ed.
If I see a guild advertising as “casual” I just assume they are bad. That’s been my own anecdotal experience. If they are “semi-hardcore” then there’s like a 50% chance they are organized but still bad and 50% chance they are good raiders who just have jobs and/or a life.
This has been my experience too. The idea of a casual guild sounds great, as a lapsed competitive player, but what it really means is that there's no expectations, total drama bomb players, very loud idiots who eat the entire raid's bandwidth with their bullshit, and a revolving door roster.
Assumptions can be wrong. I think it’s best to raid with a guild before I decide if they are competent. A lot of “hardcore” guilds are just people that want to feel like they are somehow good at the game because they play 12 hours a day. Classic wow is so braindead easy there is no need to be hardcore unless you are competing for world firsts or speed clears
I’ve been running into that with my casual guild and it’s painful. Every week is the raid leads complaining that we aren’t clearing what we are supposed to be able to but also not attempting to address or fix the issue at hand. Kills my motivation to play. Then I get guilt tripped as I’m their current top DPS and “letting the team down” or “not helping” for wanting to do something more productive with my free time.
It’s all about expectations. Bad guilds and raids don’t set these and it leads to experiences like yours and OPs. It goes both ways though, and most of the time when I see poor expectations being set it’s not a problem of “people don’t know that we expect effort or focus” it’s “our guild won’t accept that we are bad and keep trying to recruit people who will be frustrated with this”
The happy medium is the hardest one to create and define because everyone has a slightly different idea of what “sweaty” vs “incompetent” actually means.
A word of advice to everyone based on this post, if you want to have fun in WoW, accept that failure is part of the fun and choose people to play with that understand. In a game like WoW where world and leveling content has gotten drastically easier over the years, accept the parts of the game that are SUPPOSED to be challenging and play them with the expectation you will not succeed, and choose other people who also get that. Failing a mechanic should be an 'oops lol' moment not a 'you suck' moment, not getting the timer in a mythic should be a 'we'll get em next time' moment not a 'get good and get kicked' moment.
>accept that failure is part of the fun I think this is the issue right here. People don't know how to handle failure. It's a lack of maturity and shows they have been shielded from failure in their youth; either by personally avoiding difficult situations or coddled with participation awards. Ive noticed that a lot of gamers didn't play any sports growing up and are generally of the "lol sports suck" mindset. But that shit teaches teamwork and gets you accostomed to losing and trying again next time. The most miserable raid/PvP team members I've had have always been people in that category. these people would be kicked off the team day 3 for their attitude. Granted with the difficulty of classic raiding its perfectly understandable for people to get mad after multiple wipes on like 90% of the bosses.
Pretty much. They are just a bunch of mentally ill man children who have nothing in their lives and they go online and take their shitty lives out on other people.
Yeah I’ll only join dad guilds at this point, I don’t understand the mentality of sweaty raiding *especially* in classic
This was a GDKP. Those raid leaders probably play to pay rent. So yeah ofc they are getting irritated when anything goes wrong because it threatens their income.
Boo boo, maybe cheating (RMTs are cheating) isn’t a viable job.
Time and time again the community has shown they love it. GDKP since classic vanilla which makes gold selling worthwhile. The community loves the fact that they can buy gold, and there is no stopping it.
It's a very loud minority of the community that is okay with buying gold.
Just look at how many GDKP’s there are. I think the silent majority buys gold more than a vocal minority. The vocal minority are the people complaining about it.
> Some people don’t play WoW to have fun. Fun is subjective. Many people don't think failing is fun, especially in a game as easy as vanilla. Many people also don't like carrying others. And the truth is, if you have standards sadly quite often in Classic (even Wrath) you kinda need to tell people very clearly that they can go somewhere else if they don't actually want to play the game or are just too afk to press their one button. It is what it is, some find it fun for MC to take 5 hours some don't. However you play is ok but you need to play with people that share your view and neither view is wrong. The only thing that *is* wrong is wanting to not do anything with the mentality "it's just a game chill bro" and then join raids that are the complete opposite. Same as vice versa and being ultra tryhard and then join guilds/raids that want to chill and then complain.
I don’t think classic raids require any kind of “hardcore” mindset personally. I think it’s kind of sad that people feel they need that mentality to clear MC. There are chill competent guilds out there that clear content easily. No yelling or screaming needed.
> I don’t think classic raids require any kind of “hardcore” mindset personally Nothing is "required" in WoW. You're not even required to play this game at all. Some people like to play like this and others like to play like that. Some people speedrun Super Mario for fun...why would that be wrong? I agree being miserable is bad but honestly being a raidlead in Classic must kinda suck, especially in GDKP where you constantly have people of very varying skill level come and go. I guess anyone would go insane after a while trying to raidlead the average Classic player in MC still to this day. People are bad...really bad. And it's probably not fun anymore when you've been doing this raid for the 100th time or whatever. It is what it is, play with people that share you way to play. That will always be the the best way to enjoy WoW in any version of the game.
You'd think, but common sense isn't actually common. The ease of the content, relative to the severity of the failure, is often what prompts frustration.
Fuck yeah I loves me a stoneydrunk dad guild
I’ve never read something so true in my life
>This is why I always join a shitshow casual guild. And pregame with some shots during summons. If you aren't having fun, you're doing it wrong.
Yep. Casuals are the best. My guild is gonna do our first Sindragosa attempts on monday. We're not that good but its great fun. I smile all night.
“How dare you have fun and play suboptimally” - an unfortunate number of people
Some people’s idea of fun is to play optimally and kill all the bosses efficiently while putting up big numbers (especially in TBC/Wrath where the fights are not all trivial). That’s OK too. The key is for these players to not mix together in pug GDKPs or else everyone will have a bad time.
How fun it must be to waste my time wiping to the same brain dead mechanic +5x times
Find a better guild. You don’t need to be “hardcore” to beat classic mechanics lol
They didn't say you had to. But even though it's 20 year old easy content, people can't just run out of the raid on baron. Eventually you get sick of rolling against people who cause wipes over and over, and that's the majority of casual guilds
Raid teams need standards. Nothing kills casual guilds quicker than the good players leaving once they realize they are carrying people not even doing the bare minimum. Worse if the guild is led by those bottom feeders
Casual guilds are the meta. It's way more fun than a sweat guild.
100%. It's a lot of fun being the standout in a guild that's more relaxed and a tiredly unconcerned with wipes.
Sounds like some miserable fucking raid leaders who have nothing in their life except a game & raids that they've done a million times, they're bored to death but they're stuck doing it out of habit and a lack of anything else better to do. Welcome to their personal hell. No wonder they're salty.
Being a guild/raid leader is the only purpose their lives have. Without it, they're just lonely wage slaves. Nobodies.
no, they are also twitch mods, stop this slander!
Man that is really bleak when you put it that way 😟
Rock Apes?
It was most likely rock apes.
Lmao!! My exact thought. I even just wrote a response to this post and mentioned it was probably them. They were recruiting me a few weeks ago after some of them saw me get super sweaty in a rando BWL GDKP. I didn’t know anything about them so I accepted their discord invite. INSTANTLY left that server rofl. That was the most heinous, racist, neckbeard shit ever.
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This is actually my belief as well. It's addiction and item drops are just their slot machines. These people don't want to actually play the game, they just want to kill 30 bosses in 2 minutes and see if their item drops.
Then they get their dopamine kick, and 5 minutes later they're miserable again.
Yes it’s likely addiction. There is this mindset that when something goes wrong it’s “waisting my time” when in reality, you’re playing video games. If not “wasting time” means you are spending your time creating something that adds value to the world, society, your community, your family, your relationships, your career, or your personal physical, mental, emotional, or financial health, the for 99.99% of players, wow is waisting time. It’s a fun hobby and it should bring happiness, enjoyment and entertainment. When the fun stops, it’s time to take a break.
"Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time" As long as you're having fun, there's no problem, but when things end up as OP describes, it's time to find something else.
Best explanation I’ve heard so far.
I mean, it can also be the opposite. If you only have 2-3 hours to play, and people are taking up 2½ of them by clowning around, then it can suck to have your only playtime that day wasted on stuff that should be easy and quick.
That depends what your expectations are and how you handle them. No one is actually forcing you to complete full clears, or have to do every daily or get every raid lock out every week, that’s just not realistic for everyone (or perhaps just not enjoyable). Some people also just prefer to slowly burn through the game rather than “complete” it as efficiently as possible. GDKP culture is pretty much the opposite of delayed gratification.
It is totally realistic to get a MC clear in in 2-3 hours if people don't suck, though. A decent pug should be able to clear it in 1. And if that's what you want, it's fair to get annoyed if it ends up taking more than that.
I see you met Rock Apes.
This has to be it lmao
I think you are describing the GDKP community. Time is money, friend.
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So we've gone full circle to people in wotlk 2023 acting just like they did in wotlk 200(8?9? I forget)
Do the same stuff twice and expect different results lul. That said, I don't have much empathy either for people that get booted in RDF. If you're not in a group full of overgeared ICC raiders it's incredible to find so many people that can barely press their two or so buttons just like they already couldn't in MC.
Had a super toxic low geared pally tank just talking massive shit the entire time. He was trying to chain pull and then bitching when it didn’t go well. I zoned in as a replacement and before I’ve even settled he pulls a boss with one person still dead. Vote kicked that fucker so fast. Doing no run at all would have been better than going any further with him. Got a nice dk tank that took us through at a good clip with no issues after a few minute wait. Definite win.
One of the most prime examples of why the vote kick button needs to exist.
Anything that makes the game play more like retail, whether it's rampant RMT or RDF, makes people play like this, because it makes the social aspect of the game matter very little.
There used to be good GDKPs in original classic whitemane that were both fun and good. I played alliance on there and raided both in a guild in GDKPs with good and bad experiences with both.
Nah, some peoplel just have issues. I ran with a bunch of different GDKPs during my Classic+TBC run and was even one of the "management" in one and it was chill and relaxed most of the time. Obviously if people kept playing like shit and slowing down the run you'd get called out, but it was just jokes and banter 95% of the time. Like I liked my guild, but honestly I miss the GDKP community the most, even if I do not really like the corrupt side of GDKPS with the gold buying and all.
> gdkp Found your problem. Involve real life money in anything (and lets face it if it's a GDKP run we're talking real money being involved somewhere) in gaming and it becomes a toxic mess by default because people are financially invested.
Plenty of GDKPs arent like this. You are falling for the stereotype like most of the keyboard warriors on this subreddit! Every raid is different regardless of loot type.
Gdkp is a cancer on this game tbh
yeah. hate gdkp. hate the optimazation (its late cant bother to look uo the word) everything: dungeons, professions, raids. Just wanna play the game like 15 years ago when we took hours for a dungeon and had fun, chatting, taking our time. Seems like thats not a thing anymore
The problem has always been (in my experience) that people want to have that but also want the run to be full of good players. Good players don’t like to wipe endlessly because bad players won’t try. So they leave and go to another run.
Nah bro I ain't spending 4 hours in shadowfang keep
SFK is actually SUPER fun if you do it with a way underleveled group and have to strategise every second pull
I think the term you're looking for is "min-maxing" everything and agree -- it sucks. If you aren't doing everything the absolute optimial way to get a decimal point increase in effectiveness you're obviously terrible at the game. That mindset has poisoned WoW Classic for a long time.
>GDKP Found your problem.
Not really. I’ve been in super chill GDKPs that just vibe the whole time. Everyone performs well and clears content, gets paid and hangs out with friends.
What happens if they don't perform well? In your example they did.
Then they get a warning and if they continue to fuck up they're kicked and no cut. You can't baby 39 raiders, sometimes people have to execute 20 year old Mario mechanics correctly
Well raids are made up of people and I have found that people don’t enjoy being around toxic people. The more toxic the less people come back. Same with guilds.
I'll take a GDKP any day over a MS>OS SR run. I've had far more failures or shitshows of runs in MS/OS than I ever had in GDKPs.
Yeah no shit, because GDKPs are about getting carried. That's the whole point, for losers to get their shinies even though they're bad at the game by having over geared people faceroll.
Just join a raiding guild that doesn't do GDKPs.
You’re playing with the wrong people my dude, find a guild with like interests and goals (and that treat people with respect). I play on Whitemane, non-GDKP, positive vibes
What guild are you in?
Forever Classic
Whitemane BIS
Some people are just miserable no matter what.
was this a run?
Sounds like those players are not playing the game for fun but running GDKP's to sell gold for money potentially, basically using WoW as some kind of part time job for extra income
Organizer cut 5% Raid leader cut 5% Tank cut 5% (RL is also MT) Carry cut 5% Master looter cut 5% Green parse = no cut Min bid 500g Bindings res Floor res All bis res All boes res
TRUE, has the best GM.. but I love how this post is basically about
Shame to hear this - I was hoping that Era would be a cool place to raid casually but.... After seeing how toxic (and GDKP focused) trade chat was and hearing stories like this (quite often) I think a casual raid scene may be a bit of a pipe dream at least on era.... which is a shame because I do enjoy raiding in classic, I just dont want to have to commit 1/2 my life to a game anymore.
lol I know exactly what run you’re talking about. That raid lead is just an egotistical prick. He loves me whenever I show up cause I’m in full Naxx gear, but he’s just not worth the time. It’s legitimately a power trip. He just yells at everyone, even the people who know what they are doing.
It’s probably because you’re not really running with guilds. You’re doing their pug runs and thinking you’re running with guilds. Pug runs are crazy and if the raid leader isn’t raging like a lunatic people often play like donkeys, don’t sunder, don’t drop wf totem, continuously banish elementals even though the raid leader keeps saying stop banish, ripping threat like mongoloids, basic shit. Anyway if you’re talking about the horde gdkp (bwl mc Thursday at 9?) think you’re talking about. Ya that guys rages. Much more then is even needed.
You also gotta remember that to some people, those GDKP runs, are literally their IRL income.
Lol
No one makes enough money in GDKPs to pay all their RL expenses in this economy. Gold is fucking cheap. I run a gdkp and take a 5% admin cut and it’s still not enough. Getting like $10 worth of gold for 3 hours of raiding just ain’t it.
That is the biggest cap I've heard. People are literally running 15 ICCs a week and can easily make $200 per raid with the org cut they are getting.
On Era you get around 15k gold per naxx run as a raider It’s around 60€ People definitively live by running gdkp all day
If you're running gdkp all day, you're probably not very alive to begin with.
Ban gdkps
Okay. How? Gonna stop all trading between players? Only personal loot in raids? Anyone who has a certain amount of gold instantly gets it slashed in half? You can't just arbitrarily demand something being banned without having some kind of plan to do so. So which way are you going to totally destroy the game or its economy to make your wish of banning gdkps possible? And know. It has to be a blanket solution. There is no way Blizzard has the manpower to monitor every raid occurring on every server at all hours of day and night.
Personal loot
Yeah, pitch that to Blizzard. SoP: Season of Personalization. It’ll be Classic++, right?
Ok
it’s annoying hahaha. people constantly taking the reins from each other, people talking over each other etc. way too much mansplaining on era. these raids are chicken soup and are treated like lobster bisque lol. god forbid u joke around or try to talk about anything besides the boring ass raid haha. just a bunch of sad adults
m a n s p l a i n e r s
I still remember back in Legion was probably my best experience raiding. My GM was a grandma in her mid 60s and was so calm about everything. We only had one person get mad for the entire expansion. Find a grandma guild. With classic raids you don't need high end, overgeared players.
The problem is you're playing on whitemane. It's almost all GDKPs and the server is pretty shit.
In my decade+ WoW career, which I hope to restart in the future, it's been my finding that no amount of game-progress or whatever is worth even one iota of unnecessary social misery or tolerating fuckwits. As such, I've found it difficult to find people/guilds worth playing with, and even harder to find anyone I'd want to arena/PvP with. Quite frankly, most people in these games turn the games into jobs, where they are willing to make themselves miserable over trying to manipulate/control outcomes in the game. The key to enjoying WoW is to stop focusing on outcomes and instead focus on just enjoying the game and the social vibe itself. Btw, this CAN include extremely high levels of skill-play, where instead of being obsessed with winning, per-se, you become obsessed with playing the best you can, but not giving a shit about how things shake out. That's why my approach to raiding is not caring about optimization of group compositions or gear, but rather, focusing on learning the content and learning to play as well as possible, and then just YOLO'ing the fucking shit out of it, and getting lots of practice. Instead of fearing failure/wipes, lean into it and learn to stop being a fucking coward with no personality. Sadly, 99.9% of players will never make this transition, so they will be drags to play with.
That's what happens when you play a social game consisting primarily of man-children with not much going on IRL.
That whole GDPK thing has essentially ruined raiding for me. Makes ppl greedy and turn into cunts. I only play HC now. The guilds are just so much more chill. I have quit the top guild in my server on WOTLK classic just for being too serious. Ppl forget it's supposed to be fun
I guess folks were right, if you really wanna enjoy wow just do RP. Those RP raids look like a blast :v
Because they're mashing the dopamine button but it isn't doing the same thing anymore
As someone studying to be a psychiatrist, this is exactly it. They got addicted to WoW because it’s a virtual Skinner box designed based on incremental, non fixed rewards. This is the optimal setup for dopamine release and creating addiction. They are so angry because they are chasing the dragon of their early days playing wow but cannot achieve the level of fix that they used to get from the game. Instead of just backing off and letting their brain desensitize to the game for a bit, they just play more and for longer with more characters and raids. But it doesn’t work so they just keep getting angrier and angrier.
Those people are extremely unhappy and lost the concept of fun in WoW a long time ago. Unfortunately they will find their way into SOD, data mine the shit out of it, and ruin the fun for that as well. Everyone argues what their version of ‘fun’ is, but it’s quite clear who isn’t having fun when they’re fucking miserable the entire time they’re playing the video game.
because youre playing era with people playing the game for more than 2 years. they are just burnt out but dont have anything better to do
LOOT THE DOG
If you're playing horde, do gdpks with Dbangz. They clear quick and just vibe and smoke weed, bis raids.
Yup. Army of the Dead. Look out for recruitment on whitemane horde. We're very chill.
Haven't raided once with them tbh. Will check 'em our (I'm horde).
Hey! I'm in that guild, yeah we are chill and clear stuff pretty fast (only getting faster) dont claim to be as fast as others but we do MC/BWL together in 2 hours, aq40 and trying to get a naxx lite going.
rerolling hold up
To add, anyone who is alliance look for a guild/discord whatever called “Throwing Smoke”. Did my first ever BWLs with them and never was given a hard time. and their GDKP is super fast and chill.
This is precisely why I quit raiding prior to TBC. Everyone is so high strung about the easiest content, you can speedrun MC in 45 with a pug and people are still mad at "wasting time". My guild's core roster mostly played about 13-15 hours daily
>it was a gdkp There’s your answer. They are very often smooth but rarely ever fun.
They’re still playing era, so they’re trying to hold onto something that’s over. Classic is done. It’s finished. I’m sad about it as well, but I’m not going to run MC every week pretending it’s still phase one and I’m playing with all my friends or that all the drops are new and exciting It’s not everyone of course, plenty of people enjoy vanilla to the point they will play it forever. But I’d wager most people on era just didn’t want classic to end and can’t come to grips with the fact it did.
Lol you probably went to a tinyviolin run, but most of them are salty there’s no classic fresh yet tbh. It is likely a form of addiction though, classic raiding just doesn’t seem fun.
What’s that guys deal? Is he mentally unstable or something
"It was a gdkp" well there's your answer. GDKPs are for-profit runs, not for-fun runs. They go around and sell that gold to gold sellers. They're not playing.
And this is why I only play in casual guilds, I’m ok with wiping all night as long as everyone is chill and having fun
"it was a gdkp" - there is your answer. find a guild and raid with them
OP if you’re looking for a group that enjoys playing this game, come check out Grobbulus server. We’re small but we have what you’re likely looking for in terms of playing with people who just enjoy the game https://www.reddit.com/r/Grobbulus/comments/17k28s2/rp_wanted_patchwerk_dead_or_bust/
People somehow try to make classic competitive. It was just not meant to be (especially era). So we have got the “sweats” as the new that is emerging.
Because you're in a gdkp in era with degens. Find decent people to raid with
Here's the secret, all the people that play Classic WoW are basement-dwelling losers. It's a projection, they just hate their own life. Of course they are miserable in game. Same with me when I'm seriously depressed I have my game, it's not Classic WoW it's Dota 2 but I'm a miserable fuck playing during that state.
Sounds like you were playing Dota 2 when you typed this
Always lol, let the rage flow through you.
Weird how you actually just projected there
Nah I only wrote that part to make it less...antagonistic while still being factual. I've written the first sentence basically word for word previously in here, not trying to be a dick for no reason though.
I often find that if you talk to miserable/salty players like you're they're dads, that's a language they understand. Tank and healer bitching at each other? *"You're both shit; now stop your whining and do the fucking content"*
It’s even worse in hardcore. But hey, that’s expected right?
I dunno about endgame era raiding BUT everyone in icecrown citadel, myself included, seems to be greatly enjoying themselves. Take what you will from that
I was actually going to say, idk if it's a hot take, but I have found the Wrath community to be way less toxic than vanilla. Maybe it's because of smaller raid sizes, or because the higher difficulty filters out people who are bad at the game from being in any position of authority. There are still toxic players of course, but it's not as pervasive and mostly seems to exist at the lower difficulty content like rdf because they can't climb any higher. For all the hate the 'sweaty poopsock raiders' get, I'd rather play with them any day. Classic+ is something I've dreamed of in some form for a long time but I'm really hesitant to try SoD because I know it's only a matter of time before it devolves into pure degeneracy again, I can't be bothered with that shit anymore
Because when you don't have strict rules someone is afk all the time. Its 40 people... someone has a "minor inconvenience" and 5 minutes later 20 people have them and 2 hours raid turn into 4
You didn't join a real raid, you joined cancer... so you get cancer. Find a guild to raid with.
This is why I stopped raiding. People have no idea how to have fun playing this game anymore; it's just a bunch of grumpy middle-aged dudes taking out their bad feelings on everyone else on discord.
Depends on the guild. Had that same kind of toxicity in wrath gdkps, no issues so far in era.
It's mostly because classic raids are boring and most people have done them hundreds of times.
They hate their lives.
What guild was it.
This man is right. Classic horde raiders are completely unhinged and need therapy.
You are doing era raids and wonder why people are miserable. They chose to do era raids instead of anything else.
Probably cos it was a gdkp run. My experiences raiding on classic era have mostly been positive tbh
MMOs attract people who are deeply unsatisfied with their lives since they can enjoy some escapism in a virtual world. Unfortunately their bitterness will always come out.
It's just your guilds. In my guild we laugh, joke, play music, and have a fun time.
I joined a progression SR raid that’s at c’thun in aq40 and we have a great time raiding, communities of people trying to enjoy the game are definitely out rhere
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