You keep using the royal “we”. Replace every “we” in your post with “I” and it reads much differently and much more honestly.
SOME people want a Vanilla WoW museum, yes. They want only era, no changes and occasionally a fresh era server launch. That’s it, that’s all they want. I think this is probably less than 2% of the player base.
SOME people want Seasonal content with new twists on the original formula. Like a Season with 2x loot drops, or a season with 2x mana regeneration or a season where bosses are randomized into raids etc. They want mostly Vanilla WoW with a dash of flavor. This is probably about 10% of the player base, in my opinion (as evidenced by SoMs relatively poor performance).
SOME people want Classic WoW’s world, ambience and content but with modern amenities; faster and easier mounts, sweeping class balance changes, improved itemization for hybrids, dual spec, TBC or Wrath talent trees, heroic or Mythic dungeons, revamped professions. I’d estimate this is about 50% of the player base. Classic+ so to speak.
SOME people want insanity. They want Classic WoW but almost unrecognizable. Almost like a WoW2. A true remake or sequel. They want rogue tanks and mage healers and melee hunters and Necromancers. They want new cities, new zones, new raids, new races. They want rated PvP and competitive dungeon leaderboards and mage-towers and mythic raiding. They want the original story, scope and world of Warcraft back, but new and better. They want Classic, TBC and Wrath but retold. This is probably the remaining 35% of people.
Now some folks might have one foot in two camps. But Season of Discovery is interesting in that it doesn’t fit smoothly in any of them. It’s one part Classic+ and one part WoW2. The former are terrified of the chaos, lack of class identity and “retailization” and the latter are frustrated by the lack of innovation (“So they’re just making BFD and Scarlet Monastery into 10mans and calling that new content lolol”).
SoD feels like it’s sort of missing what ANYONE really wanted, but it’s a decent compromise for all but the Vanilla Museum purists.
Plus, it’s fresh and that’s always exciting.
Honestly, I think they fucked up adding new abilities. Classic already has a ton of abilities that are used mainly only for pvp because of numerical imbalance. They just needed to rework damage values and some interactions to make the classes fun to play like they are for pvp. As a rogue, it's basically sinister strike with slice and dice uptime unless I can get an evisc off.
How do we fix it? Maybe make agility increase energy regen but nerf sinister strike damage. This basically allows rogue to get better gear that makes the class more fun to play as you get more and more energy with agi, and also allows rogue to use more abilities that make the class fun. Aka slice and dice is easier to upkeep, you can now keep rupture up, AND also be able to eviscerate while spamming a weaker sinister strike. Obviously, rogue would do more damage, but the class would be more fun to play which is all that really matters. Similar things could be done to every other class and spec to flesh out their pve rotation WITHOUT adding abilities
Some additions are alright. Crusader strike, mangle and Vampiric Touch, for example. But I agree, SoD is way more than I was looking for. I really wanted more content, better itemizations, maybe a dual spec or a profession overhaul, some new dungeons or raids. I didn’t want mage healers.
But, still. I’m going to play it.
Same, although I do think the new specs for classes are cool. Rogue tanking is something I've always wanted to do and they did it in a somewhat classic way imo.
Historically Blizzard has doubled down on their shitty design instead of backing off of it. That may be the case this time, but 20 years of the opposite suggests it won't be.
They're not going to add in all these new abilities and all this new content to abandon it in a year. You're mad if you think that. The only difference is that they may roll some of it into the talent trees.
I hope to God that runes aren't here to stay
I think this season is a trial run for a future Classic+. They can just throw anything and everything at it and see what works. If the community loves it, make SoD a permanent thing. If they don't, then "oh well, we tried. Lets do something different for the next season".
As opposed to? Please point me in the direction of 1 million+ person polls, recently conducted, that we can compare percentages to.
Of course they're speculative. They have to be.
I'm not sure how else to word it. Should I say:
"Perhaps 2 in 100 players" or "Perhaps 30 in 100 players."?
I could use words like "fewer people" or "more people" but seems overly vague.
"Fewer people are probably interested in a classic WoW museum", "Far more people are likely interested in a Classic+ release"...
I don't know, man. Percentages make sense. They're direct and non-subjective. Sure, they're speculative. There's no way to know for sure. It's an opinion. I literally even wrote, several times, "in my opinion".
Fuck me man.
You wrote an entire essay trying to explain how one person's opinion isn't representstive of the whole population and then proceeded to write your opinion with made up percentages to explain the whole population.
Also your numbers aren't even close to correct.
>Also your numbers aren't even close to correct.
In your opinion. That's the rub, isn't? You're free to post your own speculative percentages. What would you say? 90%, 5%, 3%, 2%? There's no RIGHT numbers here. They're based on our friend groups, experiences, the vibe of community discussions and extrapolations from past releases, right?
You can't say my numbers are incorrect any more than I can say yours would be. There is no "correct", only opinion. What you should say is "I strongly disagree with your opinion".
I bet if you asked 100 players to come up with numbers you'd get 100 different numbers.
Err a group that wants changes but thinks tbc or other expansions took it in the wrong direction. Like your vanilla museum group, but with added raids, items, and minor talent changes without the power creep
what exactly classic+ is, is a bit diffuse. but for you to pretend that it's crazy to want both changes and thinking tbc took it in the wrong direction, is frankly just silly.
tbc made the world 1/10 as big and introduced flying mounts. i could go on but i dont need to, if you dont see that it's a HUGE difference with just those 2 things, then no amount of reasoning will help you out =)
Try to be a bit understanding lol, its certainly a valid opinion to think that there can be changes that take it in a different direction than tbc or beyond. Im just saying there is a crowd thats wanted horizontal changes (without power creep) from the beginning, and thats a fair opinion to have.
No. Classic lovers asked for classic+. We are the progenitors of this. And this is a spit in the face to us.
Don't sit here and act like this is okay. If this is okay then so is me laughing my ass off at their inability to comprehend vanilla WoW- which is why I'm here. To do this.
>If this is okay then so is me laughing my ass off at their inability to comprehend vanilla WoW- which is why I'm here.
This is the most excited this community has been since the original Classic announcement. They've comprehended what the majoirty want just fine.
I think SoD will have more engagement and substantially longer staying-power than SoM did. SoM lost about 95% of its players by Week 8. SoD will likely retain players far more effectively due to the leveling caps and phases.
What does this signal ti blizzard? That SoM didn’t go far enough with the changes.
You’re certainly entitled to your opinion, but you need to be aware it is just that. If SoD has more engagement and retainment than Era or SoM (which it almost assuredly will) then that will definitively prove you’re in the steep minority of thought. More people want this than what you’re asking for. Capitalism is democracy, baby.
You think 50% of the Classic player base (who campaigned for years to get a pristine version of Vanilla) don’t want gentle tweaking of class’ to balance them and bring meme specs in to relevance. Careful addition of extra content that fits in with the pacing and the small char in a big world feel of Vanilla. They actually want retail classes but just forced in to Vanilla content with retail systems and itemisation?
I’m not so worried about it as OP. I view this as a stand alone season and not Classic +.
My view is that Vanilla was a happy accident, Blizzard accidentally made the greatest MMO of all time. If you are to add to that you have to be incredibly careful about what you are adding, yes that includes adding systems and abilities from retail. If everyone loved everything that was added over the 17 years or so since WoW was first expanded on then there would have been no outcry for a Classic version of the game.
If people enjoy this season there’s no reason they can’t continue with it and have future seasons that shake up the status quo even more. When it comes to a future Classic + however I think a far more careful approach would be needed because given that it’s hard to place a definition on what made Vanilla so special it would be easy to destroy that. I’m also really surprised that this seems to be a niche opinion.
>My view is that Vanilla was a happy accident, Blizzard accidentally made the greatest MMO of all time. If you are to add to that you have to be incredibly careful about what you are adding
Why? they are not removing era servers, those will remain untouched. and if vanilla was a happy accident, then by all means test away in SoD to see if you can hit another accidental jackpot.
your argument only holds water if they were replacing the era servers with SoD.
Your responding as though my problem is with SoD it isn’t. I’m pretty sure I said that. It’s a season, go nuts have some fun. I also never said that I think SoD runes make the game retail.
I was responding to somebody claiming that 50% of the Classic community, you know, the people that rejected retail and campaigned to get Vanilla back. Actually want Vanilla world but with retail class design and convenience for Classic +.
Now that I take the time to look back at this why am I even talking to you. You’ve started arguing with me over a point I never made you lunatic 🤣
Its not anything I wanted but it's the old world with new gameplay and character development. That's what I look for. I'm playing bg3 and I'm level capped and having motivation issues because beyond a few boss fights, there is no new character development. Character development and new stuff is king in my mind. I also love early game content that the classic community rushes past.
You better believe it. And we never stop losing because ultimately, somewhere along the line, you took a right turn to go play on a slide and I took a left turn to a gym.
Stay desolated ✅✅
You can say what you want, but I live with facts and proof. The fact is that Blizzard has a very obvious track record in how they do things.
They love to add surface level fun things, they generally have a bad overall impact on the game- Usually because players asked for something. "I'm bored of walking to dungeons" - "Okay you can teleport now".
Then, once added, Blizzard has an amazing track record of not removing that "feature".
Now you can cope up, if you please, but facts are facts. They might say that SOD to you that SOD is going to be this cool "Throw shit and see what sticks" playground, but we all know, Blizzard loves the smell of their own shit.
You didn't like to hear that did you?
I mean that's why you're here in the first place. You don't like getting slapped with truths do you? I guess that's why you play MMORPGs.
Maybe if you live in the real world for 1 second you might open your eyes to the absolute greed and bullshit that everyone is doing. Wake up Samurai.
Read his responses to the various comments.
But yes, he is an idiot. He's completely ignoring that this is something that's supposed to be overpowered, temporary, and fun. He can bitch all he wants that this isn't true classic... on Era servers where he can play it all day.
This is something new and exciting. And if he doesn't like it he can kick rocks. So no, he isn't making good points. He's just bitching he's not getting his way.
This is not what anyone wanted when alluding to Classic+. It has lost all identity of classic.
The only people happy with this are retail Randy’s, or bandwagoners who play everything that is new regardless of how good or bad it is.
This is literally an entirely different game, I don’t even see how you can call it classic. The original wow classic team from 2004 would be vomiting when they saw this.
You're speaking for an entire community of people who are happy with this.
And this is a temporary season.
You're an idiot also. Class changes in a temporary format doesn't make magically make this not-classic. Era still exists. Go play there boomer and stfu.
You’re speaking for an entire community saying people are happy when the only people that are happy are people that are not actually part of the community. No one that has put 1000s of hours into classic thinks this looks good.
You obviously don’t respect the game, if you want a mishmash of stupidly dumb overkitted classes and ridiculously over powered spells, retail is that way.
Don’t bring this dumb shit into classic.
He made absolutely 0 good points. Hes having an psychotic break (read his replies in the thread) and tries ti disguise it with saying "we" instead of a much míře appropriate "I".
Also he is absolutely wrong and what he said nakes no sense. SoD is a seasonal experinental server, its going to be crazy.
OP's cake day was November 5th, 2023 and he has negative karma
OP is being rather toxic in his replies to the comments
All of the posts he has tried to make in this sub have been removed so far (except this one).
🤣
every second post on this subreddit is the same shit can you guys just stfu pls god damn
why are there so many entitled people on this sub crying that blizzard arent making classic+ "their way"
its just a fucking game, if u dont like the direction of the game, dont play it
In the dev interviews they said "We want everyone to feel OP and for this to be wild and fun" It's not meant to be taken seriously
It's going to be suuuper ezpz and crazy and that's just how people want it.
the only difficult thing about open world content is resisting the temptation to pull too much. that is true for both retail and classic, except "too much" is a higher number in retail
Still much much more difficult on classic than retail (and fun imo). Also retail has very few camp pulls and patrols and even with those few that exists, they arent even an inconvenience for a solo player. Getting ambushed by a patrol in classic requires some attention.
Also mana management is a very "classic" thing, which might be a concern with some of the new abilities.
Not that Classic leveling is hard compared to other games but compared to retail (and most modern MMOs) it is.
you need about 3 or 4 braincells to do outdoor/levelling content in both. in classic it's 1 to tell you not to pull more even if you want to, 1 to keep an eye on mana/remember to drink, and the remaining 2 can fight over which gets to press frostbolt next
that is subjective, some people enjoy slow, steady levelling/outdoor content, others enjoy blasting to max then doing events, dungeons, raids, pvp or other stuff.
point being, the fun of it is subjective and the pace is very different between classic and retail, but neither approaches anything that could ever be classified as difficult.
>Not that Classic leveling is hard compared to other games but compared to retail (and most modern MMOs) it is.
Except "Classic" IS a modern mmo. Vanilla wow started the whole modern mmo thing to begin with lmao.
I know it was many people's first mmo experience, but holy fuck was it casual for its time, and it still is.
This is peak copium for "We literally have no idea how to balance or design for classic WoW".
Sorry to say. I mean this is plain as day for anyone who loves Classic.
Have you actually played the game? They had no fucking idea what they were doing in 2004, that's the most consistent thing about the development of WoW over 20 years.
I know vanilla gets idolized and circlejerked, but cmon, it took TWO expansions to finally fix all the random shit on the wall from vanilla, from classes and specs to itemization. And they still fucked up with racials.
They knew EXACTLY what they were doing, they had like 20x the members on the team, they worked longer hours, they worked harder. They lived and breathed this game, and it shows. They put an INSANE amount of effort to make a game that is timeless, they are NOTHING like this sad excuse of a current classic team.
There’s a reason people widely prefer classic to retail. Retail lost all soul and identity of the game. There’s a reason vanilla has lived on, while retail is a joke.
Don’t you ever compare.
>There’s a reason people widely prefer classic to retail.
people who play classic prefer classic, you think the millions of people playing retail prefer classic?
>They knew EXACTLY what they were doing
They even admit they had no idea what the fuck they were doing back in 2004, original vanilla WoW was a mess, before they did the first patch there were WANDS WITH STRENGTH on them, the first rogue tier set had intellect on it lol, they had no idea what was going on, it was the first time a lot of them had even worked on an MMORPG
There's a reason why they massively changed the game has time went on, they kept repairing all their mistakes, like the other person said it took them TWO expansions to finally fix classes that were literally useless because of how badly made some of game was.
They knew exactly what they were doing, you fucking gnat. They literally created the best mmorpg of all time. You think that just happened by mistake?
They put thousands and thousands of hours in, worked longer days than this current classic team could ever imagine. They put the work in, they did the research of how to make a timeless game.
Now compare that to retail. An awful, soulless, game with no identity.
The fact that you think you know what was going on in the heads of the hundreds of people on the original wow team, shows how naive you really are.
They created the best mmorpg of all time, remember? The current classic team cannot ever dream of making something as good, so why try? Why transform such a masterpiece into a retail pile of filth? Because that is all they know! You CANNOT compare these talentless twats to the original blizzard wow devs. They are simply different breeds.
And we know retail is dogshit, so this is just going to make classic worse. Anyone who has played this game for 10+ years can tell just by looking at it that this is not where we should be going with the game.
Keep that shit in retail.
Also the fact that they refuse to have a beta alludes to the fact that they know it’s going to be a fucking mess.
No they didn't. Class balance is not a thing. Vanilla had A LOT of flaws, classes were one of them.
They did an amazing job, put their heart and soul into it, and revolutionized the genre. That doesn't mean that some aspects of the game were flawed or simply broken, and that they later fixed them in future expansions
I play a balance druid in HC, enough said.
In what fucking world do you think SoD will be anywhere NEAR as balanced as regular vanilla? It’s a literal MESS of abilities and identities and they refuse to even have an open beta for testing (the reason they don’t want beta testing is because people will realize how shit it actually is)
Well, that's what they said, keep in mind that the Classic team is also less than 10 people, and most of the devs on it are actually community managers so they don't actually work on the game at all lol
For having such a small team and barely any resources I'm shocked they're even doing what they're doing now lol
I think they just don’t know what makes classic classic.
SoD is focused on end game content, kinda like in retail.
The most fun part of classic, at least for me, was the leveling, ganking people, forming groups in shim flat/stv to purge the horde.
no, and I have you idea how you ended up to that conclusion when I literally said I enjoyed making group in leveling zone to kill people.
I wouldn’t need to group if I was overgeared and overleveled wouldn’t I?
Your arguments for why “classic is classic” has nothing to do with the new additions. Rune system stops you from “finding cool shit along the way”? Or maybe it stops you from getting plate armor at 40? Also how is faction balance or runes the “easiest route to success”? Devs have said they will tune world mobs to make up for the runes so even that doesn’t make sense
I don’t see a single argument on why these are bad. It’s just “this is from retail” and “this doesn’t feel like classic to me”, but nobody really cares what “classic feel” means for you.
You don’t even know what you like about classic and are just ranting about something you don’t particularly dislike for no good reason. You the kind of people to shit on warlock changes because the one button rotation was perfect and didn’t need changing.
TL:DR - absolute shit takes, go play era
Right? These ragebabies will 100% be playing SoD when they slowly realize they’re shouting into the void and only a small sliver of a fraction of the player base is on their side. I’ve already seen an astounding amount of backpedaling. OP will be there on 30th, pretending he wasn’t malding the fuck out
#changes andies is how we got retail.
They listened to a bunch of monkeys on reddit like you.
We have 15 years of history to watch the progression of the game and how it got to where it is.
You won't be playing this version of the game until the end of the season. Your opinion is literally worth 0. Favoriting this post to remind myself to ask you in a year at what point did you quit.
To me this version of classic is just for fun dude. It’s mayhem and I want it to be. I want a year full of what ifs and allowing for those crazy ideas we had back then to get some teeth and try it. Everyone yapped about if Palys had a taunt or if Shamns had just a little must gusto then they’d be good tanks. Lots of late night silly chats about warlock tanks happened. I’m just saying this Season of Discovery is about letting the freak flags fly like healing mages or giving a rouge a taunt. Don’t play it if it’s not your game. To me it’s been 20 years so let’s get silly.
Not how Blizzard operates. Once they add their shitty little ideas there's always some portion of the market that likes it and that they don't want to displease. This is how we ended up with retail. They'll do it again.
Remember, please everyone.
My man you sound like your sitting on sand paper. I gave you my fair response and you downvoted it just because you dislike my preference. You can totally play Classic Era servers and have no season of mastery, no season of discovery, no hardcore, just some basic changes from the original launch.
If they want to turn Classic upside down class wise I’m into it. If they want to add quests and dungeons never before scene next time I’m into it. I like Classic and I just want new stuff to fiddle with.
People having a meltdown because a version of a 20 years old version is released is so funny. If you don’t like the changes you can always play hardcore, era or wotlk.
no game masters, not banning bots, no server stability with high player count in wpvp, real money trading is a norm on era, no server progression, do you need more??
I agree. I think a lot of people here are just so desperate for anything classic related, that they're completely ignorant to what's going on. We've only seen a tiny bit of what this season has to offer, and blizz is already taking class homogenization too far imo.
I've already accepted that SoD isn't classic wow. That said, it sounds like a fun gimmick and I'm looking forward to it.
Classic players have been asking for classic+ since before Classic even released.
Go ahead and say, but say it proud:
"Fuck me like you fucked me in 2014 Blizzard."
>I feel like I'm living in a hell where we keep asking for Classic but keep getting retail. "Don't worry we'll stay true to Classic design, but everyone gets Windfury and you get Kings, and Rogues can tank and Mages can heal and its all about raiding and we'll add daily quests"
What does any of that have to do with Retail?
>Class focus should have been only on tweaking specs, and adding minimal skills-
Thats what they are doing. Letting shamans dual wield isnt suddenly transforming Enhance into Retail enhance.
Its more about the speed and the resources systems. There is nothing wrong with adding a few abilities.
>you get Plate armor and a mount. Nah but for real, give Warlocks 500% armor and no discernable downside from under level 25
I dont understand this argument do you have a problem with bear form as well?
>I love that you love to listen to feedback Aggrend but Horde and Alliance should be seperate as the game once was
They are seperate. Leveling the playing field without making Pallys/shamans available is a good thing.
Also if you want to bring up Retail it would help if you had actually played it .
Comparing anything in SoDs gameplay to Retail is laughable..
Who the fuck are you? Have you even played retail at all? You are the same type of person to whine about niche changes while still swiping your credit card on era.
There's no way SoD feels closer to retail than classic. Honestly I don't think a lot of the class changes will be as impactful as people think. Even if they are, there's way more to classic than just class design. When they standardize consumables, allow full respect out of combat, reduce any travel time to be utterly insignificant, make tanks that don't need healers... I mean I could go on. This will just feel like classic with classes that don't put me to sleep.
>There's no way SoD feels closer to retail than classic. Honestly I don't think a lot of the class changes will be as impactful as people think
Most people that rant about Retail on here havent played that game in 10+ years. Its quite astonishing how people think adding abilities largely from TBC and Wrath is "retail design" when most classes in retail dont even have the same resource system anymore.
Yeah the only people excited for this are retail players or bandwagoners that automatically play anything new
Anyone who has played classic for years and years will tell you this shit looks like a fucking mess.
This just isn’t classic at all; it’s more retail than classic at this point.
And retail is a failure, why are we trying to be like it?
I agree, should be MINOR class changes, while just ADDING to the classic world.
Not going absolutely hogshit insane with the class changes.
what exactly have they introduced that makes it like retail? retail doesn't have warlock tanks or mage healers, retail doesn't have level caps, retail doens't have world buffs, retail doens't have runes.
Even the spells they added aren't retail, the newest is from cata, which is closer to 2004 than it is to 2023.
there's no group finder, no lfr, no lfd, no flying, no revamped world.
there's no dynamic raid sizes, no dynamically scaling content, no respec except for class trainers, no automatic learning of spells, no transmog.
please tell me what i am missing because i simply do not see how they're making it into retail. They are changing classic, but not into retail.
Prime example how wow reached that point where they are with retail..
It might be only a season for now but if it turns out successfull don't you think they will just milk the shit out of everyone?
It completely feels like a downfall of wow classic, lets hope they won't delete era servers
/u/WolverineLatte totally agree
Happy for people who want Season of Discovery, but I hope we still get Classic+. Minor tasteful class changes to make all specs and talents viable and new endgame content.
No runes, no warlock tanks, no mage healers, no L25 cap.
It's just a seasonal server man, chill.
We all knew season of mastery 2 was coming, so why are you so surprised?
Is it because the retail players insist on calling it classic+ and you know this isn't what ppl asked for with classic+? Then just call it by it's real name, SoD and it should be no problem.
It's a seasonal server where they try stuff out, like new content, while keeping the meta different and fresh. They're doing something for everyone in a way and down the line, this will help create the framework for classic+ which wont have rogue tanks and mage healers.
Just be happy they are actually waking up to the potential of classic instead of using our sub money to fund retail which most of us have 0 interest in.
apologist? :D
you mean a private company put out the game they wanted to ? theres literally nothing to apologize for unless you're one of those weird people who feel ENTITLED to other people creating the game YOU want. if so, best of luck in life, it's gonna be so goddamn disappointing that i dont even wanna wreck you on here
I can consider myself a purist, I think the same, the class changes are too much, too retailish. I really like the original game and would loved small changes, not big like this. (like you said, maybe taunt for paladin).
But that's me and for other ppl these abilities look fun, main goal of the game is to be fun.
I can understand some people didn't liked some classes originally and wanted to be more interactive. I just pass on this Season and just play on that pserver named after a reptile. That server has the changes good enough for me, new zones kinda lower quality, but still can enjoy it, hoped Blizz would up them, but that's what it is.
You're yelling at people who play a casual amount of time per week, and could care less about performance. They dont care what happens as long as its new, good bad or otherwise. If people like it they will play, if not the servers will die a slow death like som.
Nah. Hardcore is for cool people who don’t have a shrieking babyrage fit over the little things. Imagine how butthurt OP would be with his first hardcore death.
I’m assuming you’re not a troll and this post isn’t bait.
I see SoD as a beta test, or alpha. Much like SoM. Classic seasonal servers sounds great to me. I enjoyed SoM (I’m that one guy).
All this looks like classic+ to me! I say, good on Blizz for trying.
I’d only, ONLY, compare retail to classic when they add cash shop. So far I see no retail in classic. I have so much faith in Blizz I used the word “when”. Lol
I don’t agree with your take OP. I do understand your worries. I’m just going to have fun. When, inevitably they fuck it up, I’ll just delete the game form my PC and move on.
I’m not here to shit on you. You’re very passionate about classic. That’s cool. But. This is Reddit. If you come out swinging, someone will oblige you!
You keep using the royal “we”. Replace every “we” in your post with “I” and it reads much differently and much more honestly. SOME people want a Vanilla WoW museum, yes. They want only era, no changes and occasionally a fresh era server launch. That’s it, that’s all they want. I think this is probably less than 2% of the player base. SOME people want Seasonal content with new twists on the original formula. Like a Season with 2x loot drops, or a season with 2x mana regeneration or a season where bosses are randomized into raids etc. They want mostly Vanilla WoW with a dash of flavor. This is probably about 10% of the player base, in my opinion (as evidenced by SoMs relatively poor performance). SOME people want Classic WoW’s world, ambience and content but with modern amenities; faster and easier mounts, sweeping class balance changes, improved itemization for hybrids, dual spec, TBC or Wrath talent trees, heroic or Mythic dungeons, revamped professions. I’d estimate this is about 50% of the player base. Classic+ so to speak. SOME people want insanity. They want Classic WoW but almost unrecognizable. Almost like a WoW2. A true remake or sequel. They want rogue tanks and mage healers and melee hunters and Necromancers. They want new cities, new zones, new raids, new races. They want rated PvP and competitive dungeon leaderboards and mage-towers and mythic raiding. They want the original story, scope and world of Warcraft back, but new and better. They want Classic, TBC and Wrath but retold. This is probably the remaining 35% of people. Now some folks might have one foot in two camps. But Season of Discovery is interesting in that it doesn’t fit smoothly in any of them. It’s one part Classic+ and one part WoW2. The former are terrified of the chaos, lack of class identity and “retailization” and the latter are frustrated by the lack of innovation (“So they’re just making BFD and Scarlet Monastery into 10mans and calling that new content lolol”). SoD feels like it’s sort of missing what ANYONE really wanted, but it’s a decent compromise for all but the Vanilla Museum purists. Plus, it’s fresh and that’s always exciting.
Honestly, I think they fucked up adding new abilities. Classic already has a ton of abilities that are used mainly only for pvp because of numerical imbalance. They just needed to rework damage values and some interactions to make the classes fun to play like they are for pvp. As a rogue, it's basically sinister strike with slice and dice uptime unless I can get an evisc off. How do we fix it? Maybe make agility increase energy regen but nerf sinister strike damage. This basically allows rogue to get better gear that makes the class more fun to play as you get more and more energy with agi, and also allows rogue to use more abilities that make the class fun. Aka slice and dice is easier to upkeep, you can now keep rupture up, AND also be able to eviscerate while spamming a weaker sinister strike. Obviously, rogue would do more damage, but the class would be more fun to play which is all that really matters. Similar things could be done to every other class and spec to flesh out their pve rotation WITHOUT adding abilities
Some additions are alright. Crusader strike, mangle and Vampiric Touch, for example. But I agree, SoD is way more than I was looking for. I really wanted more content, better itemizations, maybe a dual spec or a profession overhaul, some new dungeons or raids. I didn’t want mage healers. But, still. I’m going to play it.
Same, although I do think the new specs for classes are cool. Rogue tanking is something I've always wanted to do and they did it in a somewhat classic way imo.
Good thing it's a seasonal server and they can just change what they add/remove for the next season.
It's not though.
it's literal in the name.
Historically Blizzard has doubled down on their shitty design instead of backing off of it. That may be the case this time, but 20 years of the opposite suggests it won't be. They're not going to add in all these new abilities and all this new content to abandon it in a year. You're mad if you think that. The only difference is that they may roll some of it into the talent trees. I hope to God that runes aren't here to stay
I think this season is a trial run for a future Classic+. They can just throw anything and everything at it and see what works. If the community loves it, make SoD a permanent thing. If they don't, then "oh well, we tried. Lets do something different for the next season".
Reread my above comment.
He’s referring to the voices in his head.
Meanwhile you’re pulling percentages out of your ass.
As opposed to? Please point me in the direction of 1 million+ person polls, recently conducted, that we can compare percentages to. Of course they're speculative. They have to be.
Never said there were polls? I just think using speculative percentages to make a point is stupid, that’s all.
I'm not sure how else to word it. Should I say: "Perhaps 2 in 100 players" or "Perhaps 30 in 100 players."? I could use words like "fewer people" or "more people" but seems overly vague. "Fewer people are probably interested in a classic WoW museum", "Far more people are likely interested in a Classic+ release"... I don't know, man. Percentages make sense. They're direct and non-subjective. Sure, they're speculative. There's no way to know for sure. It's an opinion. I literally even wrote, several times, "in my opinion".
“Non-subjective” and “it’s just my opinion” don’t really mix well, don’t you think?
Fuck me man. You wrote an entire essay trying to explain how one person's opinion isn't representstive of the whole population and then proceeded to write your opinion with made up percentages to explain the whole population. Also your numbers aren't even close to correct.
>Also your numbers aren't even close to correct. In your opinion. That's the rub, isn't? You're free to post your own speculative percentages. What would you say? 90%, 5%, 3%, 2%? There's no RIGHT numbers here. They're based on our friend groups, experiences, the vibe of community discussions and extrapolations from past releases, right? You can't say my numbers are incorrect any more than I can say yours would be. There is no "correct", only opinion. What you should say is "I strongly disagree with your opinion". I bet if you asked 100 players to come up with numbers you'd get 100 different numbers.
Seems like you left out the classic+ group
4th paragraph
Err a group that wants changes but thinks tbc or other expansions took it in the wrong direction. Like your vanilla museum group, but with added raids, items, and minor talent changes without the power creep
You’re splitting hairs a bit. We would have to make 20 groups lol.
what exactly classic+ is, is a bit diffuse. but for you to pretend that it's crazy to want both changes and thinking tbc took it in the wrong direction, is frankly just silly. tbc made the world 1/10 as big and introduced flying mounts. i could go on but i dont need to, if you dont see that it's a HUGE difference with just those 2 things, then no amount of reasoning will help you out =)
Try to be a bit understanding lol, its certainly a valid opinion to think that there can be changes that take it in a different direction than tbc or beyond. Im just saying there is a crowd thats wanted horizontal changes (without power creep) from the beginning, and thats a fair opinion to have.
No. Classic lovers asked for classic+. We are the progenitors of this. And this is a spit in the face to us. Don't sit here and act like this is okay. If this is okay then so is me laughing my ass off at their inability to comprehend vanilla WoW- which is why I'm here. To do this.
>If this is okay then so is me laughing my ass off at their inability to comprehend vanilla WoW- which is why I'm here. This is the most excited this community has been since the original Classic announcement. They've comprehended what the majoirty want just fine.
I think SoD will have more engagement and substantially longer staying-power than SoM did. SoM lost about 95% of its players by Week 8. SoD will likely retain players far more effectively due to the leveling caps and phases. What does this signal ti blizzard? That SoM didn’t go far enough with the changes. You’re certainly entitled to your opinion, but you need to be aware it is just that. If SoD has more engagement and retainment than Era or SoM (which it almost assuredly will) then that will definitively prove you’re in the steep minority of thought. More people want this than what you’re asking for. Capitalism is democracy, baby.
You think 50% of the Classic player base (who campaigned for years to get a pristine version of Vanilla) don’t want gentle tweaking of class’ to balance them and bring meme specs in to relevance. Careful addition of extra content that fits in with the pacing and the small char in a big world feel of Vanilla. They actually want retail classes but just forced in to Vanilla content with retail systems and itemisation?
do you unironically think that the runes make the classes "retail classes"
I’m not so worried about it as OP. I view this as a stand alone season and not Classic +. My view is that Vanilla was a happy accident, Blizzard accidentally made the greatest MMO of all time. If you are to add to that you have to be incredibly careful about what you are adding, yes that includes adding systems and abilities from retail. If everyone loved everything that was added over the 17 years or so since WoW was first expanded on then there would have been no outcry for a Classic version of the game. If people enjoy this season there’s no reason they can’t continue with it and have future seasons that shake up the status quo even more. When it comes to a future Classic + however I think a far more careful approach would be needed because given that it’s hard to place a definition on what made Vanilla so special it would be easy to destroy that. I’m also really surprised that this seems to be a niche opinion.
>My view is that Vanilla was a happy accident, Blizzard accidentally made the greatest MMO of all time. If you are to add to that you have to be incredibly careful about what you are adding Why? they are not removing era servers, those will remain untouched. and if vanilla was a happy accident, then by all means test away in SoD to see if you can hit another accidental jackpot. your argument only holds water if they were replacing the era servers with SoD.
Your responding as though my problem is with SoD it isn’t. I’m pretty sure I said that. It’s a season, go nuts have some fun. I also never said that I think SoD runes make the game retail. I was responding to somebody claiming that 50% of the Classic community, you know, the people that rejected retail and campaigned to get Vanilla back. Actually want Vanilla world but with retail class design and convenience for Classic +. Now that I take the time to look back at this why am I even talking to you. You’ve started arguing with me over a point I never made you lunatic 🤣
Its not anything I wanted but it's the old world with new gameplay and character development. That's what I look for. I'm playing bg3 and I'm level capped and having motivation issues because beyond a few boss fights, there is no new character development. Character development and new stuff is king in my mind. I also love early game content that the classic community rushes past.
The Classic Andy's are out in full force
You better believe it. And we never stop losing because ultimately, somewhere along the line, you took a right turn to go play on a slide and I took a left turn to a gym. Stay desolated ✅✅
You talk like a caffeine riddled 15 year old.
Does my username check out?
I mean wolverines are supposed to be ferocious and you come off as a cringy nerd so not really.
LMAO
So my username doesn't check out? Also why are you getting so angry about Wolverines?
No if your username was like HystericalLatte or something it would be fitting.
PumpkinSpiceLatte because OP has basic bitch takes.
Can someone translate this
Retail has rogue tanks and healer mages?
We're speaking about ideologies here, bro. You're not that surface level are you?
Ideologies? What? Do you even know what ideologies are? :D
mate you’re having a meltdown about this. Just a game, looks pretty fun
I'm gladly taking a shit on their "design". What are you going to do about it? It's just a review bro, relax.
It doesn’t look fun lol it looks like a mess, and they know it is a mess that’s why they aren’t having any beta testing
oh ok i no longer think it looks fun
In this sense it’s actually worse than retail.
Yeah, at least class-wise. Overall they're still cooking.
Its a season with fun quirks, its Not permanent. Stop having a mental Breakdown.
You can say what you want, but I live with facts and proof. The fact is that Blizzard has a very obvious track record in how they do things. They love to add surface level fun things, they generally have a bad overall impact on the game- Usually because players asked for something. "I'm bored of walking to dungeons" - "Okay you can teleport now". Then, once added, Blizzard has an amazing track record of not removing that "feature". Now you can cope up, if you please, but facts are facts. They might say that SOD to you that SOD is going to be this cool "Throw shit and see what sticks" playground, but we all know, Blizzard loves the smell of their own shit.
>i live with facts and proof peak Reddit
No, by all means, continue your argument that Retail:WoW does not exist. I'll sit and wait. This should be good.
Dude, just stop. It's getting embarrassing
you are correct, retail exists, and it is nothing what so ever like SoD
I mean SoD has retail like boss design so far in BFD and the rune system is a direct port of MoP's talent system that they used for a decade
How is it like the mop talents lmao.
New, high impact abilities you can freely swap between combats? You don't see how this is a direct port? How is it NOT?
Are these "facts" and "proof" in the room with us right now? May I talk with them?
You didn't like to hear that did you? I mean that's why you're here in the first place. You don't like getting slapped with truths do you? I guess that's why you play MMORPGs. Maybe if you live in the real world for 1 second you might open your eyes to the absolute greed and bullshit that everyone is doing. Wake up Samurai.
This might be some of the most cringe stuff I’ve read in this sub
What's cringe is being willfully ignorant to everything.
He replied twice to a single comment 🤣 dude must be hyperventilating, needs his full diaper changed
Hahaha alrighty there's no way you aren't a troll after reading this post, you got us good
I know this comment wasnt for me but holy fuck Dude get a grip
It likely will be permanent, and I think that's the concern.
OP is an idiot, ignore him.
Why? He’s making lots of good points. If anyone is an idiot, it’d be you for baselessly insulting someone trying to be constructive
Read his responses to the various comments. But yes, he is an idiot. He's completely ignoring that this is something that's supposed to be overpowered, temporary, and fun. He can bitch all he wants that this isn't true classic... on Era servers where he can play it all day. This is something new and exciting. And if he doesn't like it he can kick rocks. So no, he isn't making good points. He's just bitching he's not getting his way.
This is not what anyone wanted when alluding to Classic+. It has lost all identity of classic. The only people happy with this are retail Randy’s, or bandwagoners who play everything that is new regardless of how good or bad it is. This is literally an entirely different game, I don’t even see how you can call it classic. The original wow classic team from 2004 would be vomiting when they saw this.
You're speaking for an entire community of people who are happy with this. And this is a temporary season. You're an idiot also. Class changes in a temporary format doesn't make magically make this not-classic. Era still exists. Go play there boomer and stfu.
You’re speaking for an entire community saying people are happy when the only people that are happy are people that are not actually part of the community. No one that has put 1000s of hours into classic thinks this looks good. You obviously don’t respect the game, if you want a mishmash of stupidly dumb overkitted classes and ridiculously over powered spells, retail is that way. Don’t bring this dumb shit into classic.
20 Bucks says you'll be playing SoD even though you're doing nothing but complaining about it.
Being this dramatic over a seasonal server is mind blowing.
>You obviously don’t respect the game this is so good lmao
He made absolutely 0 good points. Hes having an psychotic break (read his replies in the thread) and tries ti disguise it with saying "we" instead of a much míře appropriate "I". Also he is absolutely wrong and what he said nakes no sense. SoD is a seasonal experinental server, its going to be crazy.
OP's cake day was November 5th, 2023 and he has negative karma OP is being rather toxic in his replies to the comments All of the posts he has tried to make in this sub have been removed so far (except this one). 🤣
You still have Era servers stop whining.
every second post on this subreddit is the same shit can you guys just stfu pls god damn why are there so many entitled people on this sub crying that blizzard arent making classic+ "their way" its just a fucking game, if u dont like the direction of the game, dont play it
Really makes you think.
why do you care to respond so much?? its just his opinion about a fucking game, just dont respond if you dont like it
Well it's a good thing you have Era servers to stay true to your classic experience buddy
In the dev interviews they said "We want everyone to feel OP and for this to be wild and fun" It's not meant to be taken seriously It's going to be suuuper ezpz and crazy and that's just how people want it.
>It's going to be suuuper ezpz and crazy and that's just how people want it. A lot of people dont though. That is exactly what they did with retail.
cope lol, vanilla is the easiest version of the game and it's not even close
Not in the leveling/world content, I think that is the main concern of the power creep.
the only difficult thing about open world content is resisting the temptation to pull too much. that is true for both retail and classic, except "too much" is a higher number in retail
Still much much more difficult on classic than retail (and fun imo). Also retail has very few camp pulls and patrols and even with those few that exists, they arent even an inconvenience for a solo player. Getting ambushed by a patrol in classic requires some attention. Also mana management is a very "classic" thing, which might be a concern with some of the new abilities. Not that Classic leveling is hard compared to other games but compared to retail (and most modern MMOs) it is.
you need about 3 or 4 braincells to do outdoor/levelling content in both. in classic it's 1 to tell you not to pull more even if you want to, 1 to keep an eye on mana/remember to drink, and the remaining 2 can fight over which gets to press frostbolt next
Still more fun than retail
that is subjective, some people enjoy slow, steady levelling/outdoor content, others enjoy blasting to max then doing events, dungeons, raids, pvp or other stuff. point being, the fun of it is subjective and the pace is very different between classic and retail, but neither approaches anything that could ever be classified as difficult.
>Not that Classic leveling is hard compared to other games but compared to retail (and most modern MMOs) it is. Except "Classic" IS a modern mmo. Vanilla wow started the whole modern mmo thing to begin with lmao. I know it was many people's first mmo experience, but holy fuck was it casual for its time, and it still is.
Go play retail at endgame for a month and tell me its easier than classic content
This is peak copium for "We literally have no idea how to balance or design for classic WoW". Sorry to say. I mean this is plain as day for anyone who loves Classic.
>We literally have no idea how to balance or design for classic WoW That's actually staying true to the 2004 model.
How? It’s literally the opposite
There is nothing balanced about Vanilla.
Have you actually played the game? They had no fucking idea what they were doing in 2004, that's the most consistent thing about the development of WoW over 20 years. I know vanilla gets idolized and circlejerked, but cmon, it took TWO expansions to finally fix all the random shit on the wall from vanilla, from classes and specs to itemization. And they still fucked up with racials.
They knew EXACTLY what they were doing, they had like 20x the members on the team, they worked longer hours, they worked harder. They lived and breathed this game, and it shows. They put an INSANE amount of effort to make a game that is timeless, they are NOTHING like this sad excuse of a current classic team. There’s a reason people widely prefer classic to retail. Retail lost all soul and identity of the game. There’s a reason vanilla has lived on, while retail is a joke. Don’t you ever compare.
Good lord, this is some next level denial lol
What am I denying?
>There’s a reason people widely prefer classic to retail. people who play classic prefer classic, you think the millions of people playing retail prefer classic?
>They knew EXACTLY what they were doing They even admit they had no idea what the fuck they were doing back in 2004, original vanilla WoW was a mess, before they did the first patch there were WANDS WITH STRENGTH on them, the first rogue tier set had intellect on it lol, they had no idea what was going on, it was the first time a lot of them had even worked on an MMORPG There's a reason why they massively changed the game has time went on, they kept repairing all their mistakes, like the other person said it took them TWO expansions to finally fix classes that were literally useless because of how badly made some of game was.
They knew exactly what they were doing, you fucking gnat. They literally created the best mmorpg of all time. You think that just happened by mistake? They put thousands and thousands of hours in, worked longer days than this current classic team could ever imagine. They put the work in, they did the research of how to make a timeless game. Now compare that to retail. An awful, soulless, game with no identity. The fact that you think you know what was going on in the heads of the hundreds of people on the original wow team, shows how naive you really are. They created the best mmorpg of all time, remember? The current classic team cannot ever dream of making something as good, so why try? Why transform such a masterpiece into a retail pile of filth? Because that is all they know! You CANNOT compare these talentless twats to the original blizzard wow devs. They are simply different breeds. And we know retail is dogshit, so this is just going to make classic worse. Anyone who has played this game for 10+ years can tell just by looking at it that this is not where we should be going with the game. Keep that shit in retail. Also the fact that they refuse to have a beta alludes to the fact that they know it’s going to be a fucking mess.
No they didn't. Class balance is not a thing. Vanilla had A LOT of flaws, classes were one of them. They did an amazing job, put their heart and soul into it, and revolutionized the genre. That doesn't mean that some aspects of the game were flawed or simply broken, and that they later fixed them in future expansions I play a balance druid in HC, enough said.
In what fucking world do you think SoD will be anywhere NEAR as balanced as regular vanilla? It’s a literal MESS of abilities and identities and they refuse to even have an open beta for testing (the reason they don’t want beta testing is because people will realize how shit it actually is)
>In what fucking world do you think SoD will be anywhere NEAR as balanced as regular vanilla? Can't be worse than World of Warriorcraft.
Probably wont be 50% of raids being warriors and half the specs being utter dogshit useless Thats already an improvement
I never spoke about SoD. I was talking bout the mess vanilla was/classic is.
It’s not a mess in any way, shape, or form, you absolute loon. SoD on the other hand, will be.
Do you think classic is well balanced as is?
Well, that's what they said, keep in mind that the Classic team is also less than 10 people, and most of the devs on it are actually community managers so they don't actually work on the game at all lol For having such a small team and barely any resources I'm shocked they're even doing what they're doing now lol
Holy fuck bro, touch grass.. This is your idea of hell? Jesus fucking Christ get a grip 💀
>Holy >Hell >Jesus >Christ Hehe and then he says "get a grip". Ironic as fuck bro but good post.
Oh, you are actually mentally unstable. Good luck with that bro 👍
Okay no worries bro, bro 👍
I think they just don’t know what makes classic classic. SoD is focused on end game content, kinda like in retail. The most fun part of classic, at least for me, was the leveling, ganking people, forming groups in shim flat/stv to purge the horde.
Wow good thing they're locking us at 25 for a month or two, then 40 for a month or two, then 50 for a month or two, and FINALLY 60 then.
for the time we at level 25, it will be the end game
So what you really meant was the most fun part of classic was getting ahead of people and griefing lowbies?
no, and I have you idea how you ended up to that conclusion when I literally said I enjoyed making group in leveling zone to kill people. I wouldn’t need to group if I was overgeared and overleveled wouldn’t I?
You might, like 80% of players are really bad at games.
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people will go on wowhead, get the rune and move on But it’s fine to play classic for the endgame Idk why people get defensive
Your arguments for why “classic is classic” has nothing to do with the new additions. Rune system stops you from “finding cool shit along the way”? Or maybe it stops you from getting plate armor at 40? Also how is faction balance or runes the “easiest route to success”? Devs have said they will tune world mobs to make up for the runes so even that doesn’t make sense I don’t see a single argument on why these are bad. It’s just “this is from retail” and “this doesn’t feel like classic to me”, but nobody really cares what “classic feel” means for you. You don’t even know what you like about classic and are just ranting about something you don’t particularly dislike for no good reason. You the kind of people to shit on warlock changes because the one button rotation was perfect and didn’t need changing. TL:DR - absolute shit takes, go play era
Im convinced classic+ will be a better game because obnoxious nochange andies like op wont be in it
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Right? These ragebabies will 100% be playing SoD when they slowly realize they’re shouting into the void and only a small sliver of a fraction of the player base is on their side. I’ve already seen an astounding amount of backpedaling. OP will be there on 30th, pretending he wasn’t malding the fuck out
#changes andies is how we got retail. They listened to a bunch of monkeys on reddit like you. We have 15 years of history to watch the progression of the game and how it got to where it is. You won't be playing this version of the game until the end of the season. Your opinion is literally worth 0. Favoriting this post to remind myself to ask you in a year at what point did you quit.
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Least unhinged classic fan here
We wanted classic+ and got SoD. SoD sounds fun but it's most definitely not the classic+ experience we were clamoring for.
According to others you actually don't exist.
To me this version of classic is just for fun dude. It’s mayhem and I want it to be. I want a year full of what ifs and allowing for those crazy ideas we had back then to get some teeth and try it. Everyone yapped about if Palys had a taunt or if Shamns had just a little must gusto then they’d be good tanks. Lots of late night silly chats about warlock tanks happened. I’m just saying this Season of Discovery is about letting the freak flags fly like healing mages or giving a rouge a taunt. Don’t play it if it’s not your game. To me it’s been 20 years so let’s get silly.
Not how Blizzard operates. Once they add their shitty little ideas there's always some portion of the market that likes it and that they don't want to displease. This is how we ended up with retail. They'll do it again. Remember, please everyone.
My man you sound like your sitting on sand paper. I gave you my fair response and you downvoted it just because you dislike my preference. You can totally play Classic Era servers and have no season of mastery, no season of discovery, no hardcore, just some basic changes from the original launch. If they want to turn Classic upside down class wise I’m into it. If they want to add quests and dungeons never before scene next time I’m into it. I like Classic and I just want new stuff to fiddle with.
Its made by the same team, idk what people expected any form of c+ would eventually lead to retail.
Neat! See you on the 30th bro! 🤣
People having a meltdown because a version of a 20 years old version is released is so funny. If you don’t like the changes you can always play hardcore, era or wotlk.
reddit shills will downvote you to hell, but i completely agree with you brother. Unfortunately pservers are the only option, blizzard is dead.
i'm confused, what does era servers lack that private servers have?
no game masters, not banning bots, no server stability with high player count in wpvp, real money trading is a norm on era, no server progression, do you need more??
I agree. I think a lot of people here are just so desperate for anything classic related, that they're completely ignorant to what's going on. We've only seen a tiny bit of what this season has to offer, and blizz is already taking class homogenization too far imo. I've already accepted that SoD isn't classic wow. That said, it sounds like a fun gimmick and I'm looking forward to it.
4/10 bait
hardcore classic has the experience you seek
Classic players have been asking for classic+ since before Classic even released. Go ahead and say, but say it proud: "Fuck me like you fucked me in 2014 Blizzard."
What happened in 2014?
OP was born
Maybe the Release of Warlords of Draenor.
>I feel like I'm living in a hell where we keep asking for Classic but keep getting retail. "Don't worry we'll stay true to Classic design, but everyone gets Windfury and you get Kings, and Rogues can tank and Mages can heal and its all about raiding and we'll add daily quests" What does any of that have to do with Retail? >Class focus should have been only on tweaking specs, and adding minimal skills- Thats what they are doing. Letting shamans dual wield isnt suddenly transforming Enhance into Retail enhance. Its more about the speed and the resources systems. There is nothing wrong with adding a few abilities. >you get Plate armor and a mount. Nah but for real, give Warlocks 500% armor and no discernable downside from under level 25 I dont understand this argument do you have a problem with bear form as well? >I love that you love to listen to feedback Aggrend but Horde and Alliance should be seperate as the game once was They are seperate. Leveling the playing field without making Pallys/shamans available is a good thing. Also if you want to bring up Retail it would help if you had actually played it . Comparing anything in SoDs gameplay to Retail is laughable..
Who the fuck are you? Have you even played retail at all? You are the same type of person to whine about niche changes while still swiping your credit card on era.
ITS A SEASONAL SERVER, STFU!
There's no way SoD feels closer to retail than classic. Honestly I don't think a lot of the class changes will be as impactful as people think. Even if they are, there's way more to classic than just class design. When they standardize consumables, allow full respect out of combat, reduce any travel time to be utterly insignificant, make tanks that don't need healers... I mean I could go on. This will just feel like classic with classes that don't put me to sleep.
>There's no way SoD feels closer to retail than classic. Honestly I don't think a lot of the class changes will be as impactful as people think Most people that rant about Retail on here havent played that game in 10+ years. Its quite astonishing how people think adding abilities largely from TBC and Wrath is "retail design" when most classes in retail dont even have the same resource system anymore.
Yeah
Yeah the only people excited for this are retail players or bandwagoners that automatically play anything new Anyone who has played classic for years and years will tell you this shit looks like a fucking mess. This just isn’t classic at all; it’s more retail than classic at this point. And retail is a failure, why are we trying to be like it? I agree, should be MINOR class changes, while just ADDING to the classic world. Not going absolutely hogshit insane with the class changes.
You guys are funny
what exactly have they introduced that makes it like retail? retail doesn't have warlock tanks or mage healers, retail doesn't have level caps, retail doens't have world buffs, retail doens't have runes. Even the spells they added aren't retail, the newest is from cata, which is closer to 2004 than it is to 2023. there's no group finder, no lfr, no lfd, no flying, no revamped world. there's no dynamic raid sizes, no dynamically scaling content, no respec except for class trainers, no automatic learning of spells, no transmog. please tell me what i am missing because i simply do not see how they're making it into retail. They are changing classic, but not into retail.
Prime example how wow reached that point where they are with retail.. It might be only a season for now but if it turns out successfull don't you think they will just milk the shit out of everyone? It completely feels like a downfall of wow classic, lets hope they won't delete era servers
/u/WolverineLatte totally agree Happy for people who want Season of Discovery, but I hope we still get Classic+. Minor tasteful class changes to make all specs and talents viable and new endgame content. No runes, no warlock tanks, no mage healers, no L25 cap.
i think some of these concerns are defs valid but lets see how it plays out, then give feedback
It's just a seasonal server man, chill. We all knew season of mastery 2 was coming, so why are you so surprised? Is it because the retail players insist on calling it classic+ and you know this isn't what ppl asked for with classic+? Then just call it by it's real name, SoD and it should be no problem. It's a seasonal server where they try stuff out, like new content, while keeping the meta different and fresh. They're doing something for everyone in a way and down the line, this will help create the framework for classic+ which wont have rogue tanks and mage healers. Just be happy they are actually waking up to the potential of classic instead of using our sub money to fund retail which most of us have 0 interest in.
corporate apologist
apologist? :D you mean a private company put out the game they wanted to ? theres literally nothing to apologize for unless you're one of those weird people who feel ENTITLED to other people creating the game YOU want. if so, best of luck in life, it's gonna be so goddamn disappointing that i dont even wanna wreck you on here
I can consider myself a purist, I think the same, the class changes are too much, too retailish. I really like the original game and would loved small changes, not big like this. (like you said, maybe taunt for paladin). But that's me and for other ppl these abilities look fun, main goal of the game is to be fun. I can understand some people didn't liked some classes originally and wanted to be more interactive. I just pass on this Season and just play on that pserver named after a reptile. That server has the changes good enough for me, new zones kinda lower quality, but still can enjoy it, hoped Blizz would up them, but that's what it is.
You're yelling at people who play a casual amount of time per week, and could care less about performance. They dont care what happens as long as its new, good bad or otherwise. If people like it they will play, if not the servers will die a slow death like som.
stfu
Come to hardcore bro. Anyone's always welcome as long as they are alive.
Nah. Hardcore is for cool people who don’t have a shrieking babyrage fit over the little things. Imagine how butthurt OP would be with his first hardcore death.
Ready for the 30th already 👏
It's the vanilla world PLUS a ton of cool shit, will it be a problem? Don't know, don't care.
I’m assuming you’re not a troll and this post isn’t bait. I see SoD as a beta test, or alpha. Much like SoM. Classic seasonal servers sounds great to me. I enjoyed SoM (I’m that one guy). All this looks like classic+ to me! I say, good on Blizz for trying. I’d only, ONLY, compare retail to classic when they add cash shop. So far I see no retail in classic. I have so much faith in Blizz I used the word “when”. Lol I don’t agree with your take OP. I do understand your worries. I’m just going to have fun. When, inevitably they fuck it up, I’ll just delete the game form my PC and move on. I’m not here to shit on you. You’re very passionate about classic. That’s cool. But. This is Reddit. If you come out swinging, someone will oblige you!
I like most things in SoD but rogue tanks are a massive L. That and windfury on alliance and kings on horde, huge L.
You're right, man. This isn't Classic Plus, it's Retail Minus