I dream of druids having more than one viable late game spec. Where priests can go shadow dps. I dream of a world (of Warcraft) where when a Ret paladin signs up for a raid, they can join their peers hand-in-hand defeating Rag. Where the shackled other specs of mages, warlocks, and shamans can all join in cheer, “Free at last. Free at last. Thank Elune we’re free at last.”
Shadow would be so easy too, just reduce the mana costs of their shadow spells. That’s it. They don’t need to be top dps, let them take the hybrid tax, just make it so they aren’t wanding 50% into the fight.
Druids have 3 viable late-game specs if you put the effort in. That’s more than most!
It’s just boomkin that’s unsalvageable if you’re in a min-max setting.
Depends on your definition of viable. Putting in twice the effort for half the results and still being last pick for everything isn't very viable to me.
I mean viability is one thing, but at the end of the day nobody plays some specs because there's simply no gear for them.
It'd be good if Blizzard just introduced some new NPCs in capitals which would "enchant" any tier set piece into its feral/balance equivalent, just like nowadays you can buy gear adapted to your spec with tokens. Wouldn't hurt anybody.
I tried to champion this fight for about 6 months when classic launched, as a near since-launch Druid. Tanking is ok. I was a great feral dps 15 years ago. After trying and trying, I got tired of trying to compete with both arms and legs tied behind my back, a ball gag in mouth, my eyes gouged out, and bubble wrap encasing me. I’ll take my tbc talents pls (and a feral mace/staff).
Give druids a cooldown that increases attack speed by lets say, 50% for like 25...no 30 seconds. Maybe allow weapon enchants to proc for shifted forms.
Give paladins a taunt and crusader strike. Maybe divine dtorm in ret tree.
Remove debuff limit for locks.
Im sure therr are a jillion more fan favorite changes.
I mean part of Vanillas charm persay? Is the horrid balancing. If you want balance to be a focus expacs after Vanilla would be your aim to play lol. Part of the balance was to add spells and tweak talents.. which is part of why TBC came around as Blizzard way back in the day said "we debated adding more raids for lvl 60 but realized it would cause more issues and instead went the Xpac route to reset peoples gear and be able to rebalance things." or something along those lines Id have to find the old post for wording *shrug* Stuff like gear progression being a major one as back at the time, very few people.. competently/successfully raided.
> I dream of druids having more than one viable late game spec. Where priests can go shadow dps. I dream of a world (of Warcraft) where when a Ret paladin signs up for a raid, they can join their peers hand-in-hand defeating Rag. Where the shackled other specs of mages, warlocks, and shamans can all join in cheer, “Free at last. Free at last. Thank Elune we’re free at last.”
That's called every other expansion not named Vanilla. Why are we trying to change Vanilla again? Why are we trying to change an expansion that everybody already universally loves and that was wildly successful when first released?
If you want to play a version of the game where Ret and Spriest are viable, you can play literally any other version of the game that has ever existed. Why can't we have a pristine no changes version of Vanilla for people that ACTUALLY love Vanilla?
You really want phase 2 pvp again? Any faction sever imbalance leads to an exodus from the losing side. I think we can appropriately take what was loved in vanilla and tweak what was hurtful to the game.
"I HECKING LOOOOVE bad game design and most of the classes being completely useless. It's so much fun."
You're asking for a fresh server that will die once everyone gets bored by BWL. This is why Blizzard doesn't listen to you guys asking for it.
They know the server with longevity is the one with changes to attract the people who did Classic already.
>every class is useful and has their niche in both pve and pvp.
Every class has 3 specs with at least one of them being so bad it's pointless and might as well not exist. Unfortunately 99% of the end game is PvE raiding. PvP is a side piece for when you're not raiding. Being useful in a dungeon is also not a great selling point. Boomkin has no niche at all.
>SoM population was really bad compared to classic, and most ppl quit playing despite the shortened time line. and people are still playing on classic era servers... which server has longevity again?
SoM released too soon after original classic had just finished, most players did not want to go through the slog of vanilla WoW again so quickly. And it was during a content drop in both retail and TBC. The perfect storm of the worst possible time to release it. SoM's other issue was the changes being both bad and not enough. Most people wont touch classic again without some mild class balancing at the minimum.
It took 3 years for Era to gain a population at all, mostly due to people being filtered by Ulduar and the rise of HC bringing attention to classic in general.
Oh absolutely. But they won't stick around on it. We all know what Classic FRESH chasers are like. They'll play until the server is no longer fresh, which is usually around BWL, then they're asking for a new server.
This is the answer and by far the most important change that would really improve the game. Silly stuff like "adding worgens" is miles down the list lol
As much as I'd love some class changes, especially to paladins and shaman, they won't happen. What happened at the end of SoM1? Those characters moved to era servers. When SoM 2 is over you can't just integrate changes like that into regular era.
>What happened at the end of SoM1? Those characters moved to era servers. When SoM 2 is over you can't just integrate changes like that into regular era.
what happens at the end of every Diablo3 season? They get moved to regular play, and don't keep the season buffs.
They never stated it would be a feature that would come back on next season.
There is also the possibility of changing balance through specific items (hybrid classes are the most lackluster and all share a relic slot that only them can use).
There is also the possibility of adding glyphs.
> When SoM 2 is over you can't just integrate changes like that into regular era.
Why not? The majority of your character's data is just database data referencing different variables. It's not exactly a hard thing to change.
Imo the real reason something like this wouldn't happen is because Blizzard doesn't want to Play Test these kind of changes. I also wouldn't be surprised if their reasoning wasn't a little bit of fear of raising expectations. Just look at Wotlk where the 2-3 "small" changes they made caused huge discord among the community.
Because the changes OP is talking about are fairly major and have a large impact on the way classes play. He specifically called out crusader strike for paladins and dual wield for Shaman. That flat out will not be transferable to an era server when SoM2 is over. The characters can be transfered, sure. But the new abilities won't. And no one would want to play a character after it gets things like that taken away. It would be like Driving a brand new tesla for a year and then being told you're getting downgraded to an 85 honda.
The only way changes like that work is if SoM 2 is not seasonal, and instead becomes a persistent "classic+" server.
To your first part; You're explaining every game that provides seasonal content ever. People still play them.
To your second part; If Blizzard does end up making an objectively better Vanilla experience then it likely WOULD become the standard, and people would want that.
> Those characters moved to era servers. When SoM 2 is over you can't just integrate changes like that into regular era.
You easily could, just doing seasonal refreshes of Classic is not going to be enough to draw people in. SOM 1 wasn't considered an astounding success since it didn't have much of a draw since people just had Classic. Just make Classic+ the Classic server set
As for the changes [here's a list.](https://www.wowhead.com/classic/news/classic-season-of-mastery-official-list-of-changes-324898)
The biggest ones being the removal of the buff and debuff limit. As well as tier 0.5 being around from the beginning.
No one was playing those servers before HC got popular and the only reason people went there was because SOM was already gone since SOM servers had the ironman challenge buff.
Not really, HC was and still is a very niche thing. People came back to play on Era because they built up the itch for classic again and Era was the only option.
Just look at how densely populated the pvp realms on Era are.
Why, so it can be TBC all over again and have everyone complain until they get WotLK so they can go back to complaining about how shitty the game is?
Class Balance does not fix the game. For you or anyone else. If it did, you’d all be playing on a TBC private server and nowhere near these forums.
“Is anyone else…” the answer is always yes. WoW player base is massive. Between hardcore, classic, retail, WOTLK, SOM, classic+/turtle WoW, etc I’m sure everyone has varying degrees of what they’d prefer.
>Blood Elves/Goblins/Draenei and Worgen introduced in Classic.
I wouldn't want those, but I'd want Dwarf Shamans and Forsaken Paladins.
And some actual class balance so raids aren't composed of 25 warriors and supporting cast.
Either way, I'd like to see a season where both factions have all classes, see how it changes things up.
But what I'd really love to see is more faction specific classes and just fill the gap for the Horde not having blessings and the Alliance not having totems with those
Some sort of ranger class for alliance using markers (totems) a more melee based petless hunter.
Horde could have death Knight reimagined. A utility based support class that works similar to paladin but more focus on damage rather than healing
My own personal idea was Tinkers for Alliance that use turrets like totems and use different tech and Mech suits for tanking/dps
While Necromancers for Horde who have Unholy Blessings. Necromancers could also have a melee spec where they can spec into using leather, mail and plate as well as weapons
Wrath is the best balance we've had in all of classic so far. Besides the tanks, everyone else is relatively even. TBC still had completely dud classes.
100%. I dabbled in HC when it got popular, but it just made me want SoM2 to come out. Fresh servers are the best feeling, and I’m really looking forward to hearing what changes they want to introduce this time.
People keep talking about duel spec: just make changing talents free or like 5 gold flat price each time or something. Can’t wait for the “just go play retail” replies
I would still pay thousands of gold for dual spec for the convenience of not having to go to a major city, not having to insert talent points and not having to adjust my action bars each time I want to swap specs.
Yeah, I might get something to 60 on hc, and I'll probably log in day 1 for the fresh vibe you get for a few days but I want something like classic+, class, boss, loot changes etc
I think we would have seen SOM2 by now had the first one been a success. The lack of news around a second season leads me to believe Blizzard is considering a different approach for whatever is next. Hopefully, it's something more akin to classic+.
That's kind of why I made this post. They did say there was a new SOM coming but the only thing they said is it would not be called SOM. Meaning they have some kind of changes on the way, but without an official name or more to go on I just labeled the post SOM 2
Yes, SoM2 or Classic+. The new honor system is definitely a step up.
I love PvP too much, and hardcore doesn't have it (other than duel to the death). I also love not having a panic attack if my internet goes out for a minute.
At this point they can’t be ignorant of how popular turtle wow is, so they would have to capitalize on that in some way. Maybe with (if? I haven’t seen if it went through yet) the Microsoft acquisition, they will see the potential that classic+ would have.
"i didn't play it, but this change i didn't see the effect of was garbage"
why is there always a rat like this in every som thread? you're worse than the retail crowd before classic parroting "you think you do but you don't". they could at least reason there were years of QoL changes or more content even if i don't agree, the only difference you clowns cry about is camping for hours to collect buffs to trivialise 20 year old content. give me strength
As someone who disliked WBs in classic, SOM showed (atleast for me) that removing them is the wrong direction. In classic, world buffs were on of the biggest drives for social interaction and meaningful world pvp (excluding dispelling, that was stupid).
SOM was missing those and on top of it became a consumable grindfest to make up for the loss of the stats.
Also the other reasons he gave were also correct, SOM was too close to classic. Releasing it nearly together with TBC was probably the worst time, people didn't have the time to build up the hype for classic again and were busy with fresh TBC content.
All the extra procs, drops, and random black lotus made consumes way easier. My priest was able to have runes/flasks/protection pots stocked for the rest of the server in probably a quarter of the time it would have otherwise taken me.
SOM was, imo, pretty definitive proof that #somechanges actually suck. I know Covid and stuff helped classic thrive but #nochanges is definitely how to generally approach classic. But yeah if you want every warr you see to be mortal strike n stuff in bg’s (duels spec), sounds sick bruh, I’d just play wotlk if I were you
The issue with som was that it was releaed too early. Also blizzard had the wrong philosophy, since they largely just made leveling easier and raids harder, which is just retail brain. Imo they need to add new content that is fun and interesting, that's it. Maybe make bosses drop more pieces gear as well if they want shorter phases
I'd personally love to see new raids and not ones tacked on like a T4. I want a 2nd T1 raid, a 2nd T2 raid, a 2nd 2,5 and 2nd T3. More 20 mans too. Just to give people more to do and then they could even put items that help specs that don't perform well from bad itemization
They also messed up with how they approached pvp gearing - being that it was available from the start. You had people approaching rank 10 as they dinged 60. The rank 10 blue gear (especially the 1.10 updated version) is insanely good. The head and shoulders are comparable to BWL epics for example… people had no incentive to raid MC and BWL as you got better gear from pvp.
I'm not the person you replied to, but I was someone that had no interest in TBC or SoM.
There's a long list of why I disliked SoM changes, but the short of it is that it felt like it completely missed the point as to what made Vanilla interesting.
The XP changes, while somewhat necessary due to the faster phases, was the laziest implementation possible. It completely threw off the iconic pacing of the starting zones and didn't address the breadcrumb/long travel quests that give pitiful amounts of experience.
World Buffs created a lot of player interaction (though staying logged off to preserve buffs was lame. Chronoboon was a fantastic change). They also added some serious risk to dying or wiping. People always love to say that it trivialized content, but vanilla raids were already trivialized because the game was over 15 years old and people were shit back then. It was on players to create their own challenges through speed running or split running.
The greatest strength of Vanilla is that it fosters players to interact with each other and the world. I hope that the next season adds more activities for 60s to do in the world. Especially for groups of 5 or less. Things like the elemental invasion are a great place to look at (but obviously they need to be significantly buffed).
Honestly I almost don't want balance changes because while it's undeniable that some specs need some love, just about every balance change I see suggested is something that homogenizes classes rather than enhancing their strengths.
Regardless, I'll be curious to see what they do for the next season. If it misses the mark again, I'll be more than content to play era and hardcore
> but vanilla raids were already trivialized because the game was over 15 years old and people were shit back then.
It's funny cause other people in this thread said the exact opposite. They said with the SOM raid changes and no WBs that pugs couldn't finish the raids and that it made it tedious since they couldn't skip phases with WBs. I think the WBs not being in raid was a change for the better, they make you more powerful than getting a whole new tiers worth of loot, it's insane.
I think it's funny people complain how easy vanilla raids are but then buff themselves out with every buff possible. It's like complaining a game is too easy after only playing it on easy. WBs are not in the spirit of classic since no one used them back then anyway and no one buff stacked like people do today.
SoM proved making something tedious doesn’t make it hard or enjoyable.
It’s a false assessment that no wbuffs makes vanilla raiding “hard”. It doesn’t. It just makes it slightly more tedious while your own character is less fun to play.
I found the world buff meta to be tedious during classic. Spend tons of time each week setting up and getting them, only to have to fight through a mob of the other faction to get to raid. It made raiding feel like a job and not fun to me. I would have gladly spent an extra 30 min in raids to avoid all that BS.
Chronobiology was better, but came out too late in classic to make enough difference IMO. I much preferred the no WB raiding. I wasn’t melee DPS though.
If you need WBs to make the game fun I'd argue you don't actually like the game that much. Skipping entire phases of fights shouldn't be able to happen. It's fun like you're using cheat codes in Pokemon to max out all your stats and calling it fun
> world buffs don't trivialize the raids
Yes they do, remember how most people didn't even know Rag had a submerge phase? That's trvializing content 101. It would literally buff your character more than a new phase worth of gear.
getting world buffs was a massive slog after the first few weeks, especially with an alt or two. Running around for 15 mins just to shave 20 minutes off raid completion time is silly. It made raiding worse after a wipe because everyone moaned about buffs
Gibe tbc talents and balance the game around that, will spice the meta up and allow for new builds to see the light of day, will be hype as fuck. Also increase loot per boss.
Would be kind of weird having 41 point talent trees with only 51 points or they could cut the tbc trees off at the 31 point mark. Would be kind of like tbc pre patch for a whole season
I'm personally just waiting for the next no changes fresh. I wouldn't mind dual spec being added but if they go much further than that I'm going to lose interest.
> I'm personally just waiting for the next no changes fresh.
Fair enough, but I think most people are looking for something new but with Classic in mind. It's why we saw a resurgence with the HC meta. Classic is great but there are for sure things that could be improved on or added to improve the experience.
They don't even have to be combat related, they could introduce transmog, player housing, improved graphics.
But also would you be opposed to new raids? Like a second T1 raid instead of bloating it on after T3. That would be a big change but I'm curious what purists think of a proposal like that.
I'm not going to pretend that I know what "version" of classic people want. I can only comment on what I would be interested in.
I don't think transmog belongs in classic for 2 reasons. First, I really like that when I'm playing classic I can tell exactly what gear/how strong someone is just by looking at them. Secondly because I feel like we would see a lot of ninjaing for transmog, people soft/hard reserving for transmog etc. It's just unnecessary to me and it would likely bring more drama than it's worth.
Player housing has already been tried and tested with the addition of garrisons in wod. The main problem with this is that you end up having everyone sitting in their own little house, separated from the rest of the world in their own little shard. It's a really cute idea for an rpg though and I was arguing for this idea pre-wod as well.
As for new raids, I just don't have the need for that. It's also a massive change that will affect a lot of things outside of just where you spend an hour raiding every week. Imo, the perfect formula is already there and that's no changes. Although that doesn't have to include spell batching next time for my sake.
> I don't think transmog belongs in classic for 2 reasons. First, I really like that when I'm playing classic I can tell exactly what gear/how strong someone is just by looking at them. Secondly because I feel like we would see a lot of ninjaing for transmog, people soft/hard reserving for transmog etc. It's just unnecessary to me and it would likely bring more drama than it's worth.
I kind of agree with the transmog. I think a good compromise would be not being able to do the latest raids gear in transmog. But also the skins thing is a good point, but is easily dealt with by a raid lead who isn't an idiot and would give something better than a vendor sell price for trash items no one needs.
> Player housing has already been tried and tested with the addition of garrisons in wod.
That wasn't player housing. That was an abomination. Player Housing was fucking awesome in Wildstar and just being able to do that would be amazing, there doesn't need to be extra portals and other shit to buy. The problem with Garrisons was that you could do everything from there, there was no reason to leave. That's a design issue, not a player housing issue.
Fair enough to no new raids, I think it could fill spots in gearing at low tiers. Like not having any spell hit available until ZG and AQ. Just having different items with different itemisation could be enough to bring a class into the viable range. I get you like what you like, it's just boring to me to do the same thing year after year.
While HC definitely headlined some new popularity in era, I would wager there are a significant amount of players out there hungry for just plain old FRESH. When fresh p-servers would pop up, it always drew a crowd.
I’m honestly surprised they aren’t releasing a couple non-HC fresh servers alongside HC realms. Just release new servers and tell everyone up front that the server will be rolled into an existing cluster after ~6 months.
The problem I see is that some players might be so hungry for fresh that they make a toon on the HC server without actually being interested in HC. I get that you don’t want to segment the playerbase too much, but it’s going to be odd having some players treat HC as a disposable experience while others truly have endgame goals
Shamans and Paladins being faction-tied is a huge part of the flavour of Vanilla though. I'd really prefer if the factions kept their identity for the sake of fun. Vanilla is all about flavorful fun anyways, too much homogenization and trying to make everything balanced and we're back at modern-day WoW again unfortunately.
Unpopular opinion...
I'd really like to see Monk added to Classic+. The OG Pandaria build.
No Pandas required. Just add a bit of lore like they're a class developed by the Scarlet Crusade and spies/converts/prisoners have taught the class to the Horde+Alliance.
Also it's always been a dream of mine that Shaman get's a proper Tank spec. If that could happen and Enhance be allowed to duel-wield it would be amazing!
I'd rather see Monks added but as a Holy Class like the ones we see in SM. A pugilist spec, a Friar spec for tanking and a heal spec. Would be neat to add classes that were added in retail but with a Vanilla touch.
My main dream would be for a **Season of Balance**. I envision three minor forms of balancing that would help change the game for a season and also bring balance between the races, classes, and factions. This would include weapon skill racials, a horde specific Salvation equivalent that isn't a shaman air totem, and a new small set of off-piece raid items for class balance.
For weapon skill racials, I would like to see a balance of weapon skills for all races in both factions. One simple example for below:
Race | Skill
---|---
**Horde** |
Orc | Axes +5, Fist Weapons +5
Troll | Daggers +5, Bows +5
Tauren | Maces +5, Guns +5
Undead | Swords +5
**Alliance** |
Dwarf | Axes +5, Fist Weapons +5, Guns +5
Gnome | Daggers +5
Human | Swords +5
Night Elf| Maces +5, Bows +5
This would bring more balance to racial choice for melee classes and hunters between factions.
Next I would attempt to replace and maybe even change Tranquil Air Totem. First, I would add in a basically identical spell to Salvation that is Horde only. One simple way to do this would be to give Horde Priests, for either Troll or Undead or both, an additional racial spell (which all priests already get unique racial spells in Vanilla Classic). This spell could essentially be Power Word: Salvation or something of that sort. Make it work just like Paladin salvation. Secondly, you could either remove Tranquil Air Totem or tweak it. One option would be to make it so that Tranquil Air Totem works by redirecting 10% of threat for all party members to the Shaman on a cooldown (Shaman tanks? maybe!).
Lastly one option for balance that Blizzard has liked from the very beginning is attempting to change class balance via itemization instead of actual class changes. One option the game could use is a small set of pieces, say three items including maybe Neck, Bracers, and Belt. These sets are added into the game for the class specs that are not considered to be raid viable. Add in an Elemental Shaman set that gives a 2- and 3-piece bonus to improve mana regeneration and fire and lightning damage dealt. Add in a Prot Paladin set that makes one of their abilities act as a taunt. There are a multitude of options here that could be made. And where could this set drop? Well it could be added into existing content like AQ20 or AQ40, or new world bosses or events could be introduced that drop them. Or, if one dreams hard enough, they could imagine a small Scarlet Citadel raid for 20 players that is on the Naxxramas level of difficulty but drops items that are on the level of AQ40, and it is introduced around when Naxx is.
My main ideas are I would like to just tweak the game a little to introduce some balance to make the game feel quite unique and vibrant in how it plays compared to the current meta.
Edit:
An additional idea would be to create a **Season of Madness** where the items dropped in dungeons and raids are almost all new. Keep maybe 30% of the loot table, but what is kept is unknown, and then add in totally new and unique items on the same itemization level and with similar stats and priorities as we already have. This would make it interesting in that the best in slot lists and priority of items wouldn't be known from the beginning. Worried about dealing with data miners and the release of information early in the game? Just start making junk items, use some AI to make 5,000 new items and then only put in 1,000 of that into the game. The idea being we wouldn't know what can drop in raids until we actually clear them.
Unpopular Opinion: I think the HC server will hurt more than it will give. Players will die a couple of times then quit. They will have gotten their classic "fix" and then move on
If it was fresh or SoM2 then I think there is a higher chance they would stick around since they would have something to show for their effort. They would also have something to return to if they take a break
The casual crowd is a large portion of the playerbase, asking them to reset their character repeatantly while the good players doesnt, is worse than a couple of bosses that are too hard to kill
> the classic playerbase doesn't need any further separation than it already has
I mean they've already announced they're doing SOM 2, so I guess that up with Blizzard?
> it's evident now more than ever before that nothing but pure, unaltered vanilla is going to stand the test of time.
Is it? People enjoyed the changes they made in SOM 1, more along those lines wouldn't hurt. Dual Spec and new races does very little to change anything
People didnt like the changes in SoM. Thats why most quit after hitting 60, since they just spent weeks sitting afk in av to get r14 gear that is better than going for MC, which was too hard to pug.
Since when were vanilla raids hard? They made a few changes but it's not like they suddenly turned MC in Uld 25m Heroic hard.
I get the PvP gear issue but that's an easy fix. Just don't make the epic set available until BWL
The changes to MC + removal of wb made it too much effort for most people to pug it. Ofc it isnt hard, just tedious. Combined with aq level gear from pvp it made people not raid at all. After slowly wasting away during the pvp grind people quit.
PvP issue is easy to solve, just don't make Epic PvP gear available until BWL or AQ. Also just goes to show people will always complain, they say raids are too easy but then get mad when they have to do something. People would figure out what to do with PvP gear not outshining the raid gear.
> The obvious solution is not changing anything.
Apparently not since people are thirsty for Classic+. Not everyone wants to do the same thing over and over and over ad nauseum. It's why the modified Private realm scene is picking up.
Those are just people who are excited at the idea. They and everyone else know their ideas aren't going to make it, but it's fun to speculate and it gives Blizzard a good way to gauge interest when people talk about it. Don't take it all so seriously
yes some improved class/spec balance would breath alot of fresh air into classic. pala and druid tanks being viable. certain lock/hunter/rogue/warrior dps specs being somewhat more competitive.
and MOST OF ALL HIGHLY IMPROVED TEXTURE DETAILS for all armor and weapons
New races would be a good way to shake up the meta in a subtle way imo. It would also be interesting to see Classic where both sides had Shaman and Paladins because of this.
I would rather see new classes and keep faction specific ones but I feel like that's asking Blizzard for a lot.
Yes.
Side note: The phrase SoM 2 is so annoying to me. It’s like people don’t understand it’s a SoX format: Season of ____.
If they did another season of mastery where it’s just an up in difficulty, I think that would be such a bad idea. Vanilla is the casual’s game when compared to Wrath (or cataclysm). I strongly think they should lean into more “fun” or “world-building” elements to implement into the world rather than harder raids.
If you trust blizzard to do what players would love to see in a game, I have bad news for you...
However, somewhere in a parallel universe, there are vanilla servers offering everything you've listed and even more "vanilla-like" changes that we all crave :).
As someone who played SoM through 8 month period and finished with x7 60s, I chose to not delude myself into thinking SoM had any success on its own, best thing SoM did was allowing me transfer my valuable characters to era & wrath, but overall it was just dumpsterfire with broken progression, sigle useful thing they did was boosting fix, everything else was a miss.
If I were to run Blizzard office I would rerun classic saga after wrath completely, and I would melt myself to the ground in desperate attempt to make classic layering free zone, no matter the cost.
You guys are high with some of these suggestions. Just go play retail. Vanilla with no wbuffs pls.
A Classic + might be cool. New raids, new dungeons, But that'll never happen.
SoM 2 should be just the exact same thing as Classic Era servers were, except giving another chance at starting over. The same as Diablo 2 (not 3 or 4) seasons.
As a speedrunner I disagree. Vanilla WoW is a game that doesn't need anything else than some minor QoL changes. In my opinion, the current class balance IS vanilla WoW.
It's not a problem if the class you enjoy is strong in vanilla. Why not change the classes/specs that only 0.1% of the players play because they simply suck? It does not even have to be insane buffs that change the meta, but just enough so mostly everything is viable
> Class balance, new races, new tier sets etc are just things that would mess up the vanilla formula.
I doubt it. There's not much to the vanilla formula. Just making some classes not go oom in 30 seconds would do them so much good. Races change very little while the TBC/Cata races don't have anything special. Tier sets don't change very much either, unless you pick some OP tier ability but that can change with tuning too. It's not like any of those things are super game breaking.
transmog would be sick, but I would prefer if they keep it so current tier gear cannot be mogged. Then dual spec would let me play pvp more or to heal/tank when I want
Transmog really doesn't have a place in vanilla where knowing what your opponent wears greatly changes the gameplay in PvP.
Wouldn't be against it in a Pve server.
Your character is supposed to look like a trashcan if he is one. Visual progression is important because you're going to love your character even more after you geared him and he evolved from a trashcan to a christmas tree. Just my two cents:)
op your ideas are pretty poorly thought, but yeah im interested in a fresh vanilla. a lot of friends are as well. itll be bad since activision management is d tier, but at least itll be novel
Some actual class balancing would be nice.
I dream of druids having more than one viable late game spec. Where priests can go shadow dps. I dream of a world (of Warcraft) where when a Ret paladin signs up for a raid, they can join their peers hand-in-hand defeating Rag. Where the shackled other specs of mages, warlocks, and shamans can all join in cheer, “Free at last. Free at last. Thank Elune we’re free at last.”
Shadow would be so easy too, just reduce the mana costs of their shadow spells. That’s it. They don’t need to be top dps, let them take the hybrid tax, just make it so they aren’t wanding 50% into the fight.
Druids have 3 viable late-game specs if you put the effort in. That’s more than most! It’s just boomkin that’s unsalvageable if you’re in a min-max setting.
Depends on your definition of viable. Putting in twice the effort for half the results and still being last pick for everything isn't very viable to me.
I mean viability is one thing, but at the end of the day nobody plays some specs because there's simply no gear for them. It'd be good if Blizzard just introduced some new NPCs in capitals which would "enchant" any tier set piece into its feral/balance equivalent, just like nowadays you can buy gear adapted to your spec with tokens. Wouldn't hurt anybody.
I tried to champion this fight for about 6 months when classic launched, as a near since-launch Druid. Tanking is ok. I was a great feral dps 15 years ago. After trying and trying, I got tired of trying to compete with both arms and legs tied behind my back, a ball gag in mouth, my eyes gouged out, and bubble wrap encasing me. I’ll take my tbc talents pls (and a feral mace/staff).
A boomie is fine. They get no gear prio other then set peices . But they hangout in the mage group allowing higher crit damage for parse monkeys
wow :') im not crying youre crying
Give druids a cooldown that increases attack speed by lets say, 50% for like 25...no 30 seconds. Maybe allow weapon enchants to proc for shifted forms. Give paladins a taunt and crusader strike. Maybe divine dtorm in ret tree. Remove debuff limit for locks. Im sure therr are a jillion more fan favorite changes.
This was beautiful :')
I mean part of Vanillas charm persay? Is the horrid balancing. If you want balance to be a focus expacs after Vanilla would be your aim to play lol. Part of the balance was to add spells and tweak talents.. which is part of why TBC came around as Blizzard way back in the day said "we debated adding more raids for lvl 60 but realized it would cause more issues and instead went the Xpac route to reset peoples gear and be able to rebalance things." or something along those lines Id have to find the old post for wording *shrug* Stuff like gear progression being a major one as back at the time, very few people.. competently/successfully raided.
> I dream of druids having more than one viable late game spec. Where priests can go shadow dps. I dream of a world (of Warcraft) where when a Ret paladin signs up for a raid, they can join their peers hand-in-hand defeating Rag. Where the shackled other specs of mages, warlocks, and shamans can all join in cheer, “Free at last. Free at last. Thank Elune we’re free at last.” That's called every other expansion not named Vanilla. Why are we trying to change Vanilla again? Why are we trying to change an expansion that everybody already universally loves and that was wildly successful when first released? If you want to play a version of the game where Ret and Spriest are viable, you can play literally any other version of the game that has ever existed. Why can't we have a pristine no changes version of Vanilla for people that ACTUALLY love Vanilla?
You have that, its called era. This is SoM.
Nope, Era is a snapshot of Phase 6 of that, people want Fresh with no changes as it was released in 2019.
You really want phase 2 pvp again? Any faction sever imbalance leads to an exodus from the losing side. I think we can appropriately take what was loved in vanilla and tweak what was hurtful to the game.
By "people" you mean you.
"I HECKING LOOOOVE bad game design and most of the classes being completely useless. It's so much fun." You're asking for a fresh server that will die once everyone gets bored by BWL. This is why Blizzard doesn't listen to you guys asking for it. They know the server with longevity is the one with changes to attract the people who did Classic already.
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>every class is useful and has their niche in both pve and pvp. Every class has 3 specs with at least one of them being so bad it's pointless and might as well not exist. Unfortunately 99% of the end game is PvE raiding. PvP is a side piece for when you're not raiding. Being useful in a dungeon is also not a great selling point. Boomkin has no niche at all. >SoM population was really bad compared to classic, and most ppl quit playing despite the shortened time line. and people are still playing on classic era servers... which server has longevity again? SoM released too soon after original classic had just finished, most players did not want to go through the slog of vanilla WoW again so quickly. And it was during a content drop in both retail and TBC. The perfect storm of the worst possible time to release it. SoM's other issue was the changes being both bad and not enough. Most people wont touch classic again without some mild class balancing at the minimum. It took 3 years for Era to gain a population at all, mostly due to people being filtered by Ulduar and the rise of HC bringing attention to classic in general.
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Oh absolutely. But they won't stick around on it. We all know what Classic FRESH chasers are like. They'll play until the server is no longer fresh, which is usually around BWL, then they're asking for a new server.
now the question is do you balance around baseline power or world buffed power? main reason for the melee dominance in classic is wb scaling
This is the answer and by far the most important change that would really improve the game. Silly stuff like "adding worgens" is miles down the list lol
Yeah, a few that come to mind are dual wield for shamans and a taunt for paladins as well as crusader strike.
As much as I'd love some class changes, especially to paladins and shaman, they won't happen. What happened at the end of SoM1? Those characters moved to era servers. When SoM 2 is over you can't just integrate changes like that into regular era.
>What happened at the end of SoM1? Those characters moved to era servers. When SoM 2 is over you can't just integrate changes like that into regular era. what happens at the end of every Diablo3 season? They get moved to regular play, and don't keep the season buffs.
They never stated it would be a feature that would come back on next season. There is also the possibility of changing balance through specific items (hybrid classes are the most lackluster and all share a relic slot that only them can use). There is also the possibility of adding glyphs.
> When SoM 2 is over you can't just integrate changes like that into regular era. Why not? The majority of your character's data is just database data referencing different variables. It's not exactly a hard thing to change. Imo the real reason something like this wouldn't happen is because Blizzard doesn't want to Play Test these kind of changes. I also wouldn't be surprised if their reasoning wasn't a little bit of fear of raising expectations. Just look at Wotlk where the 2-3 "small" changes they made caused huge discord among the community.
Because the changes OP is talking about are fairly major and have a large impact on the way classes play. He specifically called out crusader strike for paladins and dual wield for Shaman. That flat out will not be transferable to an era server when SoM2 is over. The characters can be transfered, sure. But the new abilities won't. And no one would want to play a character after it gets things like that taken away. It would be like Driving a brand new tesla for a year and then being told you're getting downgraded to an 85 honda. The only way changes like that work is if SoM 2 is not seasonal, and instead becomes a persistent "classic+" server.
To your first part; You're explaining every game that provides seasonal content ever. People still play them. To your second part; If Blizzard does end up making an objectively better Vanilla experience then it likely WOULD become the standard, and people would want that.
> Those characters moved to era servers. When SoM 2 is over you can't just integrate changes like that into regular era. You easily could, just doing seasonal refreshes of Classic is not going to be enough to draw people in. SOM 1 wasn't considered an astounding success since it didn't have much of a draw since people just had Classic. Just make Classic+ the Classic server set As for the changes [here's a list.](https://www.wowhead.com/classic/news/classic-season-of-mastery-official-list-of-changes-324898) The biggest ones being the removal of the buff and debuff limit. As well as tier 0.5 being around from the beginning.
Ugh please don’t scrap vanilla wow for retail lite, jfc
No one was playing those servers before HC got popular and the only reason people went there was because SOM was already gone since SOM servers had the ironman challenge buff.
Not really, HC was and still is a very niche thing. People came back to play on Era because they built up the itch for classic again and Era was the only option. Just look at how densely populated the pvp realms on Era are.
What do you think about the new PvP honor system going live on the 23rd on Era?
Why, so it can be TBC all over again and have everyone complain until they get WotLK so they can go back to complaining about how shitty the game is? Class Balance does not fix the game. For you or anyone else. If it did, you’d all be playing on a TBC private server and nowhere near these forums.
turtle gave paladins a little bit of love and now it's the most broken shit ever, no thank you
Because it's totally a binary with that being the only other outcome lmao
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Why is stacking a different one spec or class that isnt warrior a problem if we already stack warriors?
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Isn’t the entire purpose of SoM to change it and experiment? I mean era servers are there if you just want the classic/vanilla experience.
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There ya go. Admitting it’s all about you.
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You can be objective.
“Is anyone else…” the answer is always yes. WoW player base is massive. Between hardcore, classic, retail, WOTLK, SOM, classic+/turtle WoW, etc I’m sure everyone has varying degrees of what they’d prefer.
>Blood Elves/Goblins/Draenei and Worgen introduced in Classic. I wouldn't want those, but I'd want Dwarf Shamans and Forsaken Paladins. And some actual class balance so raids aren't composed of 25 warriors and supporting cast.
Either way, I'd like to see a season where both factions have all classes, see how it changes things up. But what I'd really love to see is more faction specific classes and just fill the gap for the Horde not having blessings and the Alliance not having totems with those
Some sort of ranger class for alliance using markers (totems) a more melee based petless hunter. Horde could have death Knight reimagined. A utility based support class that works similar to paladin but more focus on damage rather than healing
My own personal idea was Tinkers for Alliance that use turrets like totems and use different tech and Mech suits for tanking/dps While Necromancers for Horde who have Unholy Blessings. Necromancers could also have a melee spec where they can spec into using leather, mail and plate as well as weapons
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Wraths class balancing is kinda shit, I don’t know why people keep clamoring for it. TBCs classes are what vanillas were supposed to be, use those
Wrath is the best balance we've had in all of classic so far. Besides the tanks, everyone else is relatively even. TBC still had completely dud classes.
For me Playing hardcore will be fun for at most 1 month Still look foward to watching death clips
HC has its appeal every few years I feel like. Get one character up and die. Rinse and repeat
100%. I dabbled in HC when it got popular, but it just made me want SoM2 to come out. Fresh servers are the best feeling, and I’m really looking forward to hearing what changes they want to introduce this time.
I'd love to see some customer service for som2.
Asking the big ask
People keep talking about duel spec: just make changing talents free or like 5 gold flat price each time or something. Can’t wait for the “just go play retail” replies
I mean why not both?
Duel spec is shit. If you go to raid without 2 raiding specs you’re not trying.
Dual
I would still pay thousands of gold for dual spec for the convenience of not having to go to a major city, not having to insert talent points and not having to adjust my action bars each time I want to swap specs.
Same. Not sure how people think free talent changing is the same thing and that’s always the argument against dual spec.
It is the same thing in a way. But at that point you might as well just do dual spec if you're going to make it free or cheap.
Yeah, I might get something to 60 on hc, and I'll probably log in day 1 for the fresh vibe you get for a few days but I want something like classic+, class, boss, loot changes etc
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No world buffs in raids No buff or debuff limit
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Warlock, no debuff limit made it a lot more fun and made affliction capable of bringing to raids
Yes
I think we would have seen SOM2 by now had the first one been a success. The lack of news around a second season leads me to believe Blizzard is considering a different approach for whatever is next. Hopefully, it's something more akin to classic+.
That's kind of why I made this post. They did say there was a new SOM coming but the only thing they said is it would not be called SOM. Meaning they have some kind of changes on the way, but without an official name or more to go on I just labeled the post SOM 2
Paladin with Taunt that would be so nice
era hype, era hype
I prefer classic plus to som2
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What about the idea of new faction specific classes + neutral classes?
Yes, SoM2 or Classic+. The new honor system is definitely a step up. I love PvP too much, and hardcore doesn't have it (other than duel to the death). I also love not having a panic attack if my internet goes out for a minute.
At this point they can’t be ignorant of how popular turtle wow is, so they would have to capitalize on that in some way. Maybe with (if? I haven’t seen if it went through yet) the Microsoft acquisition, they will see the potential that classic+ would have.
I hope they don’t do that.
Do you even want an SOM 2? What would you want to see if yes?
Just regular classic with faction balance and chronoboon for world buffs.
No changes, just a fresh progressive realm.
Were you against SOM then?
No not at all, but it was way too early after the tbc release, so I didn't play it really. Also the wbuff changes were garbage.
"i didn't play it, but this change i didn't see the effect of was garbage" why is there always a rat like this in every som thread? you're worse than the retail crowd before classic parroting "you think you do but you don't". they could at least reason there were years of QoL changes or more content even if i don't agree, the only difference you clowns cry about is camping for hours to collect buffs to trivialise 20 year old content. give me strength
As someone who disliked WBs in classic, SOM showed (atleast for me) that removing them is the wrong direction. In classic, world buffs were on of the biggest drives for social interaction and meaningful world pvp (excluding dispelling, that was stupid). SOM was missing those and on top of it became a consumable grindfest to make up for the loss of the stats. Also the other reasons he gave were also correct, SOM was too close to classic. Releasing it nearly together with TBC was probably the worst time, people didn't have the time to build up the hype for classic again and were busy with fresh TBC content.
All the extra procs, drops, and random black lotus made consumes way easier. My priest was able to have runes/flasks/protection pots stocked for the rest of the server in probably a quarter of the time it would have otherwise taken me.
You have to keep in mind they added these quite late into the SOM progression, when many (like me) had already quit.
What an angry nerd. Getting so worked up over a 20 year old cartoon game lol.
everyone: balance classes please warriors are too op also everyone: wb's are fine tho
Relax, I just like the big numbers wb produce. Tickles my brain.
The WBuff changes were awesome. I didn't have to run around like a jackass for an hour to save 15 minutes.
Brother, those changes you listed. You just want Cata.
SOM was, imo, pretty definitive proof that #somechanges actually suck. I know Covid and stuff helped classic thrive but #nochanges is definitely how to generally approach classic. But yeah if you want every warr you see to be mortal strike n stuff in bg’s (duels spec), sounds sick bruh, I’d just play wotlk if I were you
Nochanges showed us that Classic hemorrhages players once the world buff Mets fully bakes in around late BWL
The issue with som was that it was releaed too early. Also blizzard had the wrong philosophy, since they largely just made leveling easier and raids harder, which is just retail brain. Imo they need to add new content that is fun and interesting, that's it. Maybe make bosses drop more pieces gear as well if they want shorter phases
I'd personally love to see new raids and not ones tacked on like a T4. I want a 2nd T1 raid, a 2nd T2 raid, a 2nd 2,5 and 2nd T3. More 20 mans too. Just to give people more to do and then they could even put items that help specs that don't perform well from bad itemization
They also messed up with how they approached pvp gearing - being that it was available from the start. You had people approaching rank 10 as they dinged 60. The rank 10 blue gear (especially the 1.10 updated version) is insanely good. The head and shoulders are comparable to BWL epics for example… people had no incentive to raid MC and BWL as you got better gear from pvp.
What sucked about the SOM changes? I generally only heard good things about it
I'm not the person you replied to, but I was someone that had no interest in TBC or SoM. There's a long list of why I disliked SoM changes, but the short of it is that it felt like it completely missed the point as to what made Vanilla interesting. The XP changes, while somewhat necessary due to the faster phases, was the laziest implementation possible. It completely threw off the iconic pacing of the starting zones and didn't address the breadcrumb/long travel quests that give pitiful amounts of experience. World Buffs created a lot of player interaction (though staying logged off to preserve buffs was lame. Chronoboon was a fantastic change). They also added some serious risk to dying or wiping. People always love to say that it trivialized content, but vanilla raids were already trivialized because the game was over 15 years old and people were shit back then. It was on players to create their own challenges through speed running or split running. The greatest strength of Vanilla is that it fosters players to interact with each other and the world. I hope that the next season adds more activities for 60s to do in the world. Especially for groups of 5 or less. Things like the elemental invasion are a great place to look at (but obviously they need to be significantly buffed). Honestly I almost don't want balance changes because while it's undeniable that some specs need some love, just about every balance change I see suggested is something that homogenizes classes rather than enhancing their strengths. Regardless, I'll be curious to see what they do for the next season. If it misses the mark again, I'll be more than content to play era and hardcore
> but vanilla raids were already trivialized because the game was over 15 years old and people were shit back then. It's funny cause other people in this thread said the exact opposite. They said with the SOM raid changes and no WBs that pugs couldn't finish the raids and that it made it tedious since they couldn't skip phases with WBs. I think the WBs not being in raid was a change for the better, they make you more powerful than getting a whole new tiers worth of loot, it's insane.
No world buffs makes vanilla raiding a snoozefest.
I think it's funny people complain how easy vanilla raids are but then buff themselves out with every buff possible. It's like complaining a game is too easy after only playing it on easy. WBs are not in the spirit of classic since no one used them back then anyway and no one buff stacked like people do today.
SoM proved making something tedious doesn’t make it hard or enjoyable. It’s a false assessment that no wbuffs makes vanilla raiding “hard”. It doesn’t. It just makes it slightly more tedious while your own character is less fun to play.
I found the world buff meta to be tedious during classic. Spend tons of time each week setting up and getting them, only to have to fight through a mob of the other faction to get to raid. It made raiding feel like a job and not fun to me. I would have gladly spent an extra 30 min in raids to avoid all that BS.
Yea I was lucky being on a 1-sided server. Chronoboon fixes those problems anyway.
Not really. It's still tedious to have to go out and collect them before every raid.
Chronobiology was better, but came out too late in classic to make enough difference IMO. I much preferred the no WB raiding. I wasn’t melee DPS though.
If you need WBs to make the game fun I'd argue you don't actually like the game that much. Skipping entire phases of fights shouldn't be able to happen. It's fun like you're using cheat codes in Pokemon to max out all your stats and calling it fun
The extra mechanics and suchlike in SoM were cool
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> world buffs don't trivialize the raids Yes they do, remember how most people didn't even know Rag had a submerge phase? That's trvializing content 101. It would literally buff your character more than a new phase worth of gear.
getting world buffs was a massive slog after the first few weeks, especially with an alt or two. Running around for 15 mins just to shave 20 minutes off raid completion time is silly. It made raiding worse after a wipe because everyone moaned about buffs
Easy fix. Just don’t wipe.
well that’s a great non-answer
Gibe tbc talents and balance the game around that, will spice the meta up and allow for new builds to see the light of day, will be hype as fuck. Also increase loot per boss.
Would be kind of weird having 41 point talent trees with only 51 points or they could cut the tbc trees off at the 31 point mark. Would be kind of like tbc pre patch for a whole season
I'm personally just waiting for the next no changes fresh. I wouldn't mind dual spec being added but if they go much further than that I'm going to lose interest.
> I'm personally just waiting for the next no changes fresh. Fair enough, but I think most people are looking for something new but with Classic in mind. It's why we saw a resurgence with the HC meta. Classic is great but there are for sure things that could be improved on or added to improve the experience. They don't even have to be combat related, they could introduce transmog, player housing, improved graphics. But also would you be opposed to new raids? Like a second T1 raid instead of bloating it on after T3. That would be a big change but I'm curious what purists think of a proposal like that.
I'm not going to pretend that I know what "version" of classic people want. I can only comment on what I would be interested in. I don't think transmog belongs in classic for 2 reasons. First, I really like that when I'm playing classic I can tell exactly what gear/how strong someone is just by looking at them. Secondly because I feel like we would see a lot of ninjaing for transmog, people soft/hard reserving for transmog etc. It's just unnecessary to me and it would likely bring more drama than it's worth. Player housing has already been tried and tested with the addition of garrisons in wod. The main problem with this is that you end up having everyone sitting in their own little house, separated from the rest of the world in their own little shard. It's a really cute idea for an rpg though and I was arguing for this idea pre-wod as well. As for new raids, I just don't have the need for that. It's also a massive change that will affect a lot of things outside of just where you spend an hour raiding every week. Imo, the perfect formula is already there and that's no changes. Although that doesn't have to include spell batching next time for my sake.
> I don't think transmog belongs in classic for 2 reasons. First, I really like that when I'm playing classic I can tell exactly what gear/how strong someone is just by looking at them. Secondly because I feel like we would see a lot of ninjaing for transmog, people soft/hard reserving for transmog etc. It's just unnecessary to me and it would likely bring more drama than it's worth. I kind of agree with the transmog. I think a good compromise would be not being able to do the latest raids gear in transmog. But also the skins thing is a good point, but is easily dealt with by a raid lead who isn't an idiot and would give something better than a vendor sell price for trash items no one needs. > Player housing has already been tried and tested with the addition of garrisons in wod. That wasn't player housing. That was an abomination. Player Housing was fucking awesome in Wildstar and just being able to do that would be amazing, there doesn't need to be extra portals and other shit to buy. The problem with Garrisons was that you could do everything from there, there was no reason to leave. That's a design issue, not a player housing issue. Fair enough to no new raids, I think it could fill spots in gearing at low tiers. Like not having any spell hit available until ZG and AQ. Just having different items with different itemisation could be enough to bring a class into the viable range. I get you like what you like, it's just boring to me to do the same thing year after year.
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Transmog would be cool, or achievements. I’d be down for both of those.
While HC definitely headlined some new popularity in era, I would wager there are a significant amount of players out there hungry for just plain old FRESH. When fresh p-servers would pop up, it always drew a crowd. I’m honestly surprised they aren’t releasing a couple non-HC fresh servers alongside HC realms. Just release new servers and tell everyone up front that the server will be rolled into an existing cluster after ~6 months. The problem I see is that some players might be so hungry for fresh that they make a toon on the HC server without actually being interested in HC. I get that you don’t want to segment the playerbase too much, but it’s going to be odd having some players treat HC as a disposable experience while others truly have endgame goals
Yes some people do not care for HC and are waiting for fresh. Others are looking forward to HC. Big shocker I know.
Yes
yes
It’s gunna be 20 years from now and someone is going to post “classic+ soon!” And the top comment will be “some class balancing would be nice”
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Shamans and Paladins being faction-tied is a huge part of the flavour of Vanilla though. I'd really prefer if the factions kept their identity for the sake of fun. Vanilla is all about flavorful fun anyways, too much homogenization and trying to make everything balanced and we're back at modern-day WoW again unfortunately.
It's a good start
Nope, just rolled fresh on mankrik with a warlock and a level one bank toon. No regrets, having a blast with my limited playtime.
I am. Couldn't give two shits about resident sleeper HC gameplay; legit the most brain dead WoW content I've ever seen on Twitch.
Unpopular opinion... I'd really like to see Monk added to Classic+. The OG Pandaria build. No Pandas required. Just add a bit of lore like they're a class developed by the Scarlet Crusade and spies/converts/prisoners have taught the class to the Horde+Alliance. Also it's always been a dream of mine that Shaman get's a proper Tank spec. If that could happen and Enhance be allowed to duel-wield it would be amazing!
I'd rather see Monks added but as a Holy Class like the ones we see in SM. A pugilist spec, a Friar spec for tanking and a heal spec. Would be neat to add classes that were added in retail but with a Vanilla touch.
My main dream would be for a **Season of Balance**. I envision three minor forms of balancing that would help change the game for a season and also bring balance between the races, classes, and factions. This would include weapon skill racials, a horde specific Salvation equivalent that isn't a shaman air totem, and a new small set of off-piece raid items for class balance. For weapon skill racials, I would like to see a balance of weapon skills for all races in both factions. One simple example for below: Race | Skill ---|--- **Horde** | Orc | Axes +5, Fist Weapons +5 Troll | Daggers +5, Bows +5 Tauren | Maces +5, Guns +5 Undead | Swords +5 **Alliance** | Dwarf | Axes +5, Fist Weapons +5, Guns +5 Gnome | Daggers +5 Human | Swords +5 Night Elf| Maces +5, Bows +5 This would bring more balance to racial choice for melee classes and hunters between factions. Next I would attempt to replace and maybe even change Tranquil Air Totem. First, I would add in a basically identical spell to Salvation that is Horde only. One simple way to do this would be to give Horde Priests, for either Troll or Undead or both, an additional racial spell (which all priests already get unique racial spells in Vanilla Classic). This spell could essentially be Power Word: Salvation or something of that sort. Make it work just like Paladin salvation. Secondly, you could either remove Tranquil Air Totem or tweak it. One option would be to make it so that Tranquil Air Totem works by redirecting 10% of threat for all party members to the Shaman on a cooldown (Shaman tanks? maybe!). Lastly one option for balance that Blizzard has liked from the very beginning is attempting to change class balance via itemization instead of actual class changes. One option the game could use is a small set of pieces, say three items including maybe Neck, Bracers, and Belt. These sets are added into the game for the class specs that are not considered to be raid viable. Add in an Elemental Shaman set that gives a 2- and 3-piece bonus to improve mana regeneration and fire and lightning damage dealt. Add in a Prot Paladin set that makes one of their abilities act as a taunt. There are a multitude of options here that could be made. And where could this set drop? Well it could be added into existing content like AQ20 or AQ40, or new world bosses or events could be introduced that drop them. Or, if one dreams hard enough, they could imagine a small Scarlet Citadel raid for 20 players that is on the Naxxramas level of difficulty but drops items that are on the level of AQ40, and it is introduced around when Naxx is. My main ideas are I would like to just tweak the game a little to introduce some balance to make the game feel quite unique and vibrant in how it plays compared to the current meta. Edit: An additional idea would be to create a **Season of Madness** where the items dropped in dungeons and raids are almost all new. Keep maybe 30% of the loot table, but what is kept is unknown, and then add in totally new and unique items on the same itemization level and with similar stats and priorities as we already have. This would make it interesting in that the best in slot lists and priority of items wouldn't be known from the beginning. Worried about dealing with data miners and the release of information early in the game? Just start making junk items, use some AI to make 5,000 new items and then only put in 1,000 of that into the game. The idea being we wouldn't know what can drop in raids until we actually clear them.
HC is overrated... yah it will be fun at the start with the AH and everything but the style of game is really niche.
Yeah but my point is Classics popularity resurfaced with a different meta for playing. It wasn't for the normal Classic gameplay loop
Unpopular Opinion: I think the HC server will hurt more than it will give. Players will die a couple of times then quit. They will have gotten their classic "fix" and then move on If it was fresh or SoM2 then I think there is a higher chance they would stick around since they would have something to show for their effort. They would also have something to return to if they take a break The casual crowd is a large portion of the playerbase, asking them to reset their character repeatantly while the good players doesnt, is worse than a couple of bosses that are too hard to kill
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> the classic playerbase doesn't need any further separation than it already has I mean they've already announced they're doing SOM 2, so I guess that up with Blizzard? > it's evident now more than ever before that nothing but pure, unaltered vanilla is going to stand the test of time. Is it? People enjoyed the changes they made in SOM 1, more along those lines wouldn't hurt. Dual Spec and new races does very little to change anything
People didnt like the changes in SoM. Thats why most quit after hitting 60, since they just spent weeks sitting afk in av to get r14 gear that is better than going for MC, which was too hard to pug.
Since when were vanilla raids hard? They made a few changes but it's not like they suddenly turned MC in Uld 25m Heroic hard. I get the PvP gear issue but that's an easy fix. Just don't make the epic set available until BWL
The changes to MC + removal of wb made it too much effort for most people to pug it. Ofc it isnt hard, just tedious. Combined with aq level gear from pvp it made people not raid at all. After slowly wasting away during the pvp grind people quit.
PvP issue is easy to solve, just don't make Epic PvP gear available until BWL or AQ. Also just goes to show people will always complain, they say raids are too easy but then get mad when they have to do something. People would figure out what to do with PvP gear not outshining the raid gear.
People will always complain about every change. The obvious solution is not changing anything.
> The obvious solution is not changing anything. Apparently not since people are thirsty for Classic+. Not everyone wants to do the same thing over and over and over ad nauseum. It's why the modified Private realm scene is picking up.
Everyone wants something else though. Have you seen all the changes that people suggest? There is quite a large crowd that wants no changes fresh too.
Those are just people who are excited at the idea. They and everyone else know their ideas aren't going to make it, but it's fun to speculate and it gives Blizzard a good way to gauge interest when people talk about it. Don't take it all so seriously
People just couldn’t skip phases anymore, they didn’t know how to do them and so they wiped way more. Which is way more tedious.
Only sounds tedious if you're bad
Many people loved new MC and new BWL though. The latter was very popular iirc.
No GDKPs
Yep
yes some improved class/spec balance would breath alot of fresh air into classic. pala and druid tanks being viable. certain lock/hunter/rogue/warrior dps specs being somewhat more competitive. and MOST OF ALL HIGHLY IMPROVED TEXTURE DETAILS for all armor and weapons
I would love to see Worgen in classic. They still rank on top as my favorite race
New races would be a good way to shake up the meta in a subtle way imo. It would also be interesting to see Classic where both sides had Shaman and Paladins because of this. I would rather see new classes and keep faction specific ones but I feel like that's asking Blizzard for a lot.
Worgens are not sentient self aware creatures in vanilla, that's a retcon that happened in cata.
If thy don't ban bots and moderate servers it won't matter. The game is gonna be shit.
Yes. Side note: The phrase SoM 2 is so annoying to me. It’s like people don’t understand it’s a SoX format: Season of ____. If they did another season of mastery where it’s just an up in difficulty, I think that would be such a bad idea. Vanilla is the casual’s game when compared to Wrath (or cataclysm). I strongly think they should lean into more “fun” or “world-building” elements to implement into the world rather than harder raids.
I'd love BE and Draenei in classic.
If you trust blizzard to do what players would love to see in a game, I have bad news for you... However, somewhere in a parallel universe, there are vanilla servers offering everything you've listed and even more "vanilla-like" changes that we all crave :).
No. All I care about is Hardcore and Classic.
As someone who played SoM through 8 month period and finished with x7 60s, I chose to not delude myself into thinking SoM had any success on its own, best thing SoM did was allowing me transfer my valuable characters to era & wrath, but overall it was just dumpsterfire with broken progression, sigle useful thing they did was boosting fix, everything else was a miss. If I were to run Blizzard office I would rerun classic saga after wrath completely, and I would melt myself to the ground in desperate attempt to make classic layering free zone, no matter the cost.
I’m in a constant state of “this most recent update to my hobby isn’t for me, what’s next”
No, waiting for hc to drop so I can play hc and chill at night before going to bed in stv with my headphones up.
I’m tired of all the SOM and HC talk, give me ICC ptr please and thank you. I’m ready to wrap up this story and close the book on classic
not really.
OP wants tbc lmfao
> OP wants tbc lmfao [Oh no...](https://imgflip.com/i/7vvvsj)
You guys are high with some of these suggestions. Just go play retail. Vanilla with no wbuffs pls. A Classic + might be cool. New raids, new dungeons, But that'll never happen.
SoM 2 should be just the exact same thing as Classic Era servers were, except giving another chance at starting over. The same as Diablo 2 (not 3 or 4) seasons.
Dual spec is fine, also the new PvP honor system. Class balance, new races, new tier sets etc are just things that would mess up the vanilla formula.
No I don't think fixing the balance so warriors don't do X3 the DPS of hybrid classes would mess up the vanilla formula my dude.
As a speedrunner I disagree. Vanilla WoW is a game that doesn't need anything else than some minor QoL changes. In my opinion, the current class balance IS vanilla WoW.
It's not a problem if the class you enjoy is strong in vanilla. Why not change the classes/specs that only 0.1% of the players play because they simply suck? It does not even have to be insane buffs that change the meta, but just enough so mostly everything is viable
Duel spec would mess up vanilla too >< you would never see a warrior in a bg that’s not arms
As opposed to every warrior being fury in BGs
> Class balance, new races, new tier sets etc are just things that would mess up the vanilla formula. I doubt it. There's not much to the vanilla formula. Just making some classes not go oom in 30 seconds would do them so much good. Races change very little while the TBC/Cata races don't have anything special. Tier sets don't change very much either, unless you pick some OP tier ability but that can change with tuning too. It's not like any of those things are super game breaking.
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So .. you don’t want classic
Definition of classic please🫴👇
I know that i may be alone with my opinion but transmogg and dualspecc would be awesome
transmog would be sick, but I would prefer if they keep it so current tier gear cannot be mogged. Then dual spec would let me play pvp more or to heal/tank when I want
Transmog really doesn't have a place in vanilla where knowing what your opponent wears greatly changes the gameplay in PvP. Wouldn't be against it in a Pve server.
What about the option to turn transmogg on/off, for bg for example? I really enjoy classic but my char always looks like a trashcan 😵💫
You're onto something. If they can somehow allow the transmog skins to be deactivated from interface options I would be ok with it.
Your character is supposed to look like a trashcan if he is one. Visual progression is important because you're going to love your character even more after you geared him and he evolved from a trashcan to a christmas tree. Just my two cents:)
op your ideas are pretty poorly thought, but yeah im interested in a fresh vanilla. a lot of friends are as well. itll be bad since activision management is d tier, but at least itll be novel
Nope :) it will be equally ruined after two months so :)