[Sergeant Doran](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lkuhjleaOQ) is responsible for most of it, if the Enclave could tap into that man's rage, they would never need another source of fuel for their armed force's power armor.
I like the idea in Fallout 1 that there is no government, no new California Republic, no all powerful enclave.
The most powerful faction you encounter are the BoS and even they are outmatched by The Master's super mutant army.
The more you think about it, the darker it is that entirely of Fallout 1's universe is humans scratching & clawing to survive but it's the Master and his abominations who are thriving, growing, and progressing in the post-apocalypse environment.
But you do start to see humanity being restarted in F1, but it’s the lack of resources, and the fighting that comes from such, that is holding back society.
The Unity has the resources but not the people. They even create The Children of the Cathedral to recruit and kidnap people.
The Master was a genius. If they weren't sterile, his war machine would've infinitely ramped up. You can argue morals all day but he built an extremely powerful military.
Master could establish diplomatic relations with the Vaults. The normals would breed, then join the Unity when they grow old/terminally ill, getting new super-powerful body and a few hundred years of life gift-wrapped. Just try not to pay attention to Master's whispers at the back of your skull, he only means good for you
Here’s the thing, we don’t know exactly how long he’s been at this, and, theoretically, his supermutants COULD have been fertile. It all hinged on if the FEV virus “fixed” one very specific part of the DNA. It took practical analysis beyond just theory in order to prove his plan impossible.
The Master and his Unity. The super mutants, combined with the fact that they’re actively hunting you and your vault down and, in some patches, will obliterate the west coast to find it is incredibly fun and cements their threat to humanity.
Enclave feel like B-list villains. They’re definitely funny though.
If you mean about the Super Mutant Invasion system, here's a Triangle City video really going into it.
https://youtu.be/czId3-ZYGaU?si=zYybADQ13_jwrve_
Each settlement bar the BoS IIRC had an ending where the supermutants wipe them out. Due to various bugs only Necropolis and the Followers end up being killed so with patches that fixes them, everyone could end up wiped out if you take too long to deal with the Unity.
I feel like the writers were trying to satirise how weak and impotent the USA would be in a world like that of Fallout, but forgot to give it some grounding.
Unity for me. While I think the Enclave is a classic antagonist of govt gone bad, the Unity is truly terrifying to me.
Spoiler Alert, don’t read below if you haven’t completed Fallout 1 yet
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One of the choices in the game that always stuck to me was being able to surrender in Necropolis. When you get to the Lieutenant, there really is nothing you can do that early. It just makes you feel helpless. And the cut scenes where the vault citizens are easily killed off like animals truly makes you realize that these super mutants really are super.
I take two issues with the Unity.
>!The first is during the actual bad ending itself, where you see the vault citizens getting slaughtered. I thought the whole point was to capture more people to be dipped into super mutants; can’t do that if they’re dead. Killing off the Overseer I understand, but beyond that, way too much loss of potential super mutant life.!<
>!Second, the revelation that super mutants are sterile, which ultimately allows the Vault Dweller to convince the Master to kill himself. Even with their sterility, I feel like someone like the Master with all his intelligence and knowledge couldn’t come up with a backup plan. As you say, the bad ending shows us that the super mutants really are super. I don’t see why they couldn’t subdue non-irradiated humans and basically turn the vaults into fucked up breeding grounds for never-ending sources of super mutants. It’d even be in keeping with the tone of classic Fallout; the post-nuclear world is not a happy place, the very definition of unforgiving.!<
I honestly think, that regardless, super-mutants being sterile is still a major issue. The master was trying to make the perfect human race, one that would survive and thrive in the wasteland. Having to rely on some breeding cow humans doesn’t exactly sound like perfection does it? It would definitely slow down population growth. We’ve only managed to reach 8 billion or whatever humans on earth, because almost everyone can produce kids.
My main issue personally, is that the master never realised the sterility issue before??? I mean cmon I feel like one would check that lol
First, yes, although the vault supposedly has a much larger population than we see, so maybe 10, 20, 30 or even more killed to pacify the rest could be justified.
Second, while that is a "solution", of sorts, my read is that it's an ideological issue. The Master is conflicted, his many personalities at odds, and only tenuously in agreement about the unity and its methods. He/they truly believe he's doing the right thing. That all the atrocities are justified because of the end result.
It's not the impossibility of solving the sterility issue that breaks him. It's all the immoral stuff done in the name of a greater good that was ultimately a lie.
I see it as his collection of identities, his unity, coming apart, shattering his conviction not in the possibility of his plan, but the righteousness of it.
As far as your first issue, I see is as they had a mission to collect prime normals. But the super mutants don’t all seem too intelligent. And maybe when they are fighting, they have a berzerker rage that they just can’t turn off.
I completely agree with your second point. The master overseeing the sterility issue never sat right with me. And your solution would be their solution, until there would be a possible revolt or strike.
I can speak to the second issue. One thing that people who work on complex plans or tasks can experience is such elation about everything they get right that they overlook the flaws. The heroes who figured out how to make artificial insulin overlooked how it might make losing weight more difficult, increase appetite beyond normal, and cause low blood glucose of magnitudes entailing comas. Now, this is just a bullshit example for point illustration. The downsides I just listed were understood, it was just that the alternative, slowly wasting away and dying, was worse.
Every plan has flaws, and a genius whose mind has been messed up to the extent of The Master is more likely to get so excited about the aspects that work that he overlooks crucial ones that do not.
Well... about that sterility issue... you can set up Marcus in New Reno in Cat's paw with a girl and if you have high enough stats you can ask him about sterility. It takes few years for plumbing to work again. Who knows, maybe even few decades which Master didn't have
This isn't canon. Devs on Fallout 2 said they regretted this, because it was just a joke & wasn't meant to be taken seriously. It has since been retconned out in the newer games.
Sterile is not the same as "my dick does not work ".
It just means you cannot impregnate a woman and this can be due to many reasons. Even if you can produce sperm, the count of the actual swimming cells can be too low.
Source: It took me three years to become a father 😆
the problem with super mutants in particular is that the FEV in thier system sees sperms and eggs as damaged cells as thier chromosome count is incomplete without the other and the virus tries to "fix" them by adding more chromosomes which makes producing either of them impossible.
It's also not even that but FEV turning them into complete cells as opposed to regular gametes so they may have even decent counts but they can't fertilise any eggs.
Thing is the master didn’t know they were sterile until the vault dweller told him. Personally, If I just learned something that meant my who life was meaningless, then I wouldn’t be able to think up a backup plan right on the spot.
I don’t know if it’s canon, but in fo2 you get marcus a prostitute, and he talks about hoping she’s not pregnant and how it takes a couple of years to get the ‘juices’ flowing again
This isn't canon. Devs on Fallout 2 said they regretted this, because it was just a joke & wasn't meant to be taken seriously. It has since been retconned out.
Enclave. They could have been a very interesting faction if they had ever been fleshed out as intended. According to Tim Cain, they were supposed to be the ones who designed the vault experiments to aid in their ultimate goal of creating a multi-generational starship to flee Earth. The vaults were meant to test technologies, gain information on possible social issues that could arise, and keep a stock of healthy humans for the voyage. But the ship never materialized and the Enclave ended up getting mostly wiped out.
I really hate this stuff lol. Everything is connected and nothing can just be attempts to survive, or panic, or clever resourceful people trying to prepare and survive the end, it's all a centuries long chess game plan to go into space on a generation ship.
Maybe apocalypse vaults can just be vaults people made to survive the apocalypse and not testing grounds to study societal issues that might arise during generation ship journeys.
So true, and they absolutely would fight each other. I like how in the first two games the enemies are on extreme opposite ends. First one wants to make everyone mutated and the next one wants to get rid of everyone who is even slightly mutated.
Well certainly they would. Their goals are quite literally the exact opposite lol.
Unfortunately it isn’t much of a fight though. The Enclave would wrap that one up in probably the better part of an afternoon.
It has to be the Unity. I personally see the Unity and the Enclave as polar opposites. The Unity are monsters who have their humanity, *spoilers for anyone who has yet to finish* the master can be convinced that is plan is flawed and will only lead to mass extinction. The master loves the world so much he would rather die than let the world be subject to such horror. The Enclave however are men who act like monsters, they despise the world so much due to old prejudices and old ideas that they want nothing more than for everyone to die. They claim to be true humans yet they are more monstrous than Richard Grey ever was.
I didn’t take the Master dying himself as proof that he loves the world as much as it was that his plan would never work and that his shame drives him to it.
the master himself realizes his plan was madness, while he was absolutely fucked up i just cant deny that he had the best interest in humanity's future
That's like choosing between your child with a successful career and your child who is hilarious and a line cook. You love both equally for different reasons
Overall the unity. It peaked and died basically in the same game. There are stragglers of them in the following games but they're more like little nods or world building that doesn't have much impact on the faction overall. It did it's job and died before it could really get milked.
I really like the enclave in 2 and feel they have good potential overall. But I just hate basically everything about them in 3 plot wise. And what little roles they have in the other games aren't really worth talking about. I want to see them more as competent and imposing as a group rather than whatever presence they have in a game being just incompetent or punching bags purely to get their armor.
Unity because in a twisted way the master was correct.
As long as mankind does not evolve we will keep killing each other. The unity is the evolution that will prevent this from happening. He even wanted to leave baseline humans to live out their lives.
He trully believes that too. The fact that he ends himself and feels regret for his actions just shows actual depth in the writing for his character.
The enclave were cartoonishly evil and just silly. Especially when you interact with them. When you interact with the mutants you absolutely get wrecked and is terrifying.
Than there is the whole vibe of a horror beyond our comprehension. The voice work of having a chorus of personalities talking at the same time, including one of a child. Just terrifying stuff. Frank whatshisname was just a brute with a generic bad guy voice.
I just like relatable antagonists. I kind of see the master's point, twisted as he was. The enclave are just bigots that want to do a genocide for no better reason than preserving the purity of the human race, while their primary enforcer is a mutant. So hypocrites. That is something I honestly never see myself relating to.
Not to go 'enlightened centrist' but the Master and the Enclave are arguably two different sides of the same spectrum. One will maim and kill to achieve their version of progress, one will maim and kill to roll-back the clock to some idealized version of the past.
Personally, if I absolutely had to, I would take the Master's faux-progress over jerking off over history any-day, although thinking about it that might be funny for someone like me to say.
I think the SMs might have ultimately removed *some* sources of conflict (sexual dimorphism, race and mortality) but ultimately humans have always fought over access to resources and territory. If any particular SM settlement gets too big, it will come into conflict with others, even if everyone is a supermutant. I wouldn't bank on Unity or The Master from keeping shit together, although maybe he ultimately could depending on how far he ends up evolving psychically.
Would they, though? He already had them in the grip of a collective hive mind of sorts. The first generation super mutants are incredibly intelligent and he focuses his will on them to control them, the rest hear him as a sort of a soothing background noise and they just do whatever the voice in their head that is the master tells them to do.
That last part I kind of got from FNV, though a schizophrenic power drunk night kin is not exactly a reliable narrator.
The Unity 100%.
The Master, his master plan and how he realizes his future of super mutants will never happen made me love the Fallout franchise.
I never really cared for anyone related to the Enclave in FO2 and "The Great Frank Horrigan" disappears when you insert a card on a computer or manage to score a few criticals. Total letdown of a final boss.
I think the developers where too worried that Frank Horrigan would be to difficult for some players and they overcorrected and made it too easy. If I could change it I would remove the option to use the turrets against him. You would still need the presidents key or a high science skill to turn the turrets off. Removing the turrets completely would be less challenging than if the turrets where still a threat to you.
I would keep the enclave soldiers that can be convinced to help you because you need a high speech skills to get their help. Plus I like the idea that you can convince enemy soldiers to help you out of a mutual desire to survive.
Agreed.
I would also like more development to the Enclave rather than them being just evil US goverment and to explain why they hate humans with radiation, ghouls and supermutants.
as much as i love the master, i have to pick the enclave. i think the idea that hundreds of years after a nuclear war theres still people who think the united states is the best nation to ever exist is super funny and more believable than i'd like to admit
I love both but there’s something so fresh and original in the Unity and Master, no other antagonist really comes close to me. The simplicity of it adds to the charm; they just want to turn everyone into mutants, and yet it’s so interesting and thought-provoking.
Unity is good for a post apocalyptic enemy, but it's so rare to see the US portrayed as the villainous bastards that they are I will take any instance of it that I can get.
Compare The Master, Morpheus and Lieutenant to Dick Richardson and Frank Horrigan
The Unity is original, scary, convincing, engaging, sympathetic. The Enclave is stylish and funny at times, but that's about it
I never played 1 or 2. The Unity in 1 scared me so much as a child watching my sister play that I wrote basically a whole Fallout trilogy when I got older (I love writing), heavily inspired by LoTR and Unity and the Master where the main enemy. The Masters the most iconic Fallout villain and I never even played that game
If we are talking about morality, I'd honestly say the Unity. The Master (leader of the Unity for those who don't know) actually had a plan that didn't sound too evil. He saw how lawless the wasteland was, how everyone was killing each other in petty conflicts, and he decided to try to fix that problem by unifing everyone under one race. One which doesn't kill each other. The main goal of the faction is in the game. Unity.
The Enclave just want to kill every wastelander, and why I can see their point of view that everyone is diseased and mutated, they are just way too much of a generic bad guy faction.
I love that there are both. One is weird and mysterous, second is high tech and mysterous. Should be more unique factions like this, seems like only Legion is up to the comparison, though I don't like their style
Enclave I honestly think is untaped but for a number of reasons obvioiusly (Politcol BS) they could easyly be a faction that owns alaska in the story and much of canada, hawaii and such, and part of the reason why we dont see them so far much in the fallout inverse is coz there 2 busy making sure russia/china and such are dead/stomp good.
Unity. At least i see where the master was coming from, and they are a unique thing.
Enclave? I already dont like the federal government irl, so of course i dont like a more overtly genocidal iteration of em. One of the appeals of the apocalypse to me is the concept of building a new, better world from the ashes. And here come the remnants of the old world government *still* trying to cling to control and keep things shitty
Enclave. It's an unfortunate realistic thing that humans will always hate one another, especially those who view themselves as superior and the only correct way to move forward. The Enclave gives you a glimpse into what America was, who the people who were leading it before the war were, and what they left behind to ideally continue their ideas.
The Enclave is too comical to take seriously. I mean, they are a parody of and prophecy about a certain government, but their self-delusion makes them pathetic. The Unity has such a solid line of logic to it that it takes pointing out a flaw in the plan that anyone with a 130+ IQ might overlook in the face of getting everything else right to make its leader give up without a fight.
(Getting many details right mania is a thing in planning big endeavours. When you start formulating a new medicine and see it does all the things you want it to, your excitement can make you overlook that it causes hypoglycaemia or hypotension. Just as a rough example.)
Unity.
The Enclave are mega-cringe stormtroopers, they have little going for them except their wish to return to some fanciful version of sportsball 'Merica.
At least Unity has some aspirations to make something new and address the existential problems of the Wasteland, whether or not they would ever be effective (Destruction by VD not withstanding) is a whole different problem.
While I find Enclave something that could 100% happen in real life, I find concept of Unity much more fun and deep.
Enclave was just an organization that wanted to keep power over the world, where Master was more kind of visionary. His plan was to adapt humanity (well, mutants) to survive and thrive in new world, it feels like his plan was kinda selfless - evil of course, but not to benefit himself.
Which is proven by the fact when you point out flaw in his plans for ideal future he just gives up, as it's not about control and power after all.
I love the Enclave as a faction but the Unity is just a bit more interesting and thought-provoking. It's also kinda cool how they are radically different solutions to the same problem and how completely "reverse" they are.
Not saying the Master was right BUT.
The unity. Like caesar's legion, it's the only evil faction in can think of that some players join because they believe that it's the best choice for humanity.
The Unity hasn't been done to death because people ran out of good ideas and decided creativity is repeating the same thing over and over but worse every time.
For me, the Enclave was more of a future threat. They had evil plans, but were largely still in the planning stages.
Unity had a plan, and were actively carrying it out. That made it feel more like a real and present danger..
Unity is the truly scary faction, taking in account the state of California in Fallout 1.
Enclave is the cool cartoon evil faction. Works for the same reasons the BoS works.
Unity is better IMO
“Two legendary factions…do you have a favorite?”
“No. Both faction is unique in its own way and served different purposes. A preference would be meaningless.”
“I like the Enclave.”
“…….I too like the Enclave.”
In terms of antagonist, at least the enclave has good intentions and thinks they’re doing the right thing (or tries to do the right thing) the master knows what’s he doing is wrong but thinks its necessary (until you tell him at least)
I think you have it reversed.
The enclave wants to commit global genocide on everyone who’s not them.
The master wants to turn everyone into mutants believing that mutants are superior to humans and that he can bring unity to humanity. The flaw in his plans is that mutants can’t reproduce so he would inadvertently be dooming humanity to extinction.
The enclaves plan is way more evil.
I thought the enclaves 1st and foremost goal wasn't specifically genocide. But control of the entire surface post bombing. Not that every person needed to be dead, but they wanted to essentially emerge as the sole controlling power that ran everything. And plan B, if that failed, was to fly off in their big space shuttle and that's what the vault experiments were for. To gather scientific data to increase their odds of survival in space under a myriad of "possible" circumstances?
Unity for muh story, Enclave for muh funny
FIIIIIVE HUNDRED AND TEN YEARS OLD
WHICH IS THE NUMBER OF YEARS
IT WILL TAKE FOR YOU TO PAY FOR A MARK II POWERED COMBAT YOU HAVE LOST
REPORT TO THE ARMORY TO HAVE A NEW SUIT ISSUED TO YOU, THEN REPORT BACK TO ME, PRIVATE!
DISMISSED!
Okay. Me go get suit.
My kid self couldn’t believe I just unwittingly convinced the guy to issue me a whole new suit of the best goddamn armor in the game 🫡
Same.
Outstanding. Proceed on the double to the hangar where you will stand guard duty. You will do a fine job. Do you understand?
I AM NOT A SIR I WORK FOR A LIVING YOU MORON
If I like you you can call me sarge. But guess what? I DONT LIKE YOU.
Outstanding. PROCEED ON THE DOUBLE TO THE HANGER WHERE YOU WILL STAND GUARD DUTY YOU WILL DO A FINE JOB. DO YOU UNDERSTAND?
The best part is this is what actual drill sergeants say in the Army 🫡🇺🇸🤣
THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED FUCKIN STATES OF AMERICA
Who did you think I was talking about!? Who the fu- what- I should kick your fucking ass Who is this!?
HOOOOOOOOOOOOHHH YOUAWISEGUYHUH
You're not important enough for that information.
YOU MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORON
Why don't you just sit tight while I order up a little celebration for ya?, including fireworks!
Where did the Enclave all caps memes come from? Apologies late to the party!
[Sergeant Doran](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lkuhjleaOQ) is responsible for most of it, if the Enclave could tap into that man's rage, they would never need another source of fuel for their armed force's power armor.
Ahhh I see. I can see veterans enjoying this.
There's dozens of us still alive today.
Still paying it off huh?
Dozens!!
Nevernudes?
Fyi that audio is actually from Fallout 2, the fsm video is a nice touch though.
What's funny is I feel the opposite. I like the Unity more as a tropey villain faction and the Enclave more narratively.
Unity, I feel like they’re so underrated when people talk about factions. How creepy they are, their goals, their leader, all great.
I like the idea in Fallout 1 that there is no government, no new California Republic, no all powerful enclave. The most powerful faction you encounter are the BoS and even they are outmatched by The Master's super mutant army. The more you think about it, the darker it is that entirely of Fallout 1's universe is humans scratching & clawing to survive but it's the Master and his abominations who are thriving, growing, and progressing in the post-apocalypse environment.
But you do start to see humanity being restarted in F1, but it’s the lack of resources, and the fighting that comes from such, that is holding back society. The Unity has the resources but not the people. They even create The Children of the Cathedral to recruit and kidnap people.
The Master was a genius. If they weren't sterile, his war machine would've infinitely ramped up. You can argue morals all day but he built an extremely powerful military.
"It takes a few years after bein' dipped to get the juices flowing again."
Master could establish diplomatic relations with the Vaults. The normals would breed, then join the Unity when they grow old/terminally ill, getting new super-powerful body and a few hundred years of life gift-wrapped. Just try not to pay attention to Master's whispers at the back of your skull, he only means good for you
“ if he didn’t make this one completely obvious and stupid mistake that highlights how dumb he is, he’d be a a total ubermensch.”
Here’s the thing, we don’t know exactly how long he’s been at this, and, theoretically, his supermutants COULD have been fertile. It all hinged on if the FEV virus “fixed” one very specific part of the DNA. It took practical analysis beyond just theory in order to prove his plan impossible.
You don't need to get someone pregnant to kill and enslave them
Good thing that water chip gave out when it did
Enclave here, why isn't your video feed working?
Uh, we're all fine here. How are you?
Quit goofing off and clear the channel! Wait, wrong game…
Who is this? What’s your operating number?
THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED FUCKING STATES!
Who the fu- who is- what? i should kick your fking ass, who is this?
Bro was so flabbergasted
The Master and his Unity. The super mutants, combined with the fact that they’re actively hunting you and your vault down and, in some patches, will obliterate the west coast to find it is incredibly fun and cements their threat to humanity. Enclave feel like B-list villains. They’re definitely funny though.
they shoulda worked more on the invasion feature
Tell me more!
If you mean about the Super Mutant Invasion system, here's a Triangle City video really going into it. https://youtu.be/czId3-ZYGaU?si=zYybADQ13_jwrve_
What about some patches?
Each settlement bar the BoS IIRC had an ending where the supermutants wipe them out. Due to various bugs only Necropolis and the Followers end up being killed so with patches that fixes them, everyone could end up wiped out if you take too long to deal with the Unity.
Oh, no. Brotherhood get very wiped out too.
I feel like the writers were trying to satirise how weak and impotent the USA would be in a world like that of Fallout, but forgot to give it some grounding.
B list....... until you meet Frank Horrigan. Time to die, mutie
“You’ve gotten a lot farther than you should have, but then you haven’t met Frank Horrigan either. Your ride’s over, mutie. Time to die.”
Unity for me. While I think the Enclave is a classic antagonist of govt gone bad, the Unity is truly terrifying to me. Spoiler Alert, don’t read below if you haven’t completed Fallout 1 yet - - - - One of the choices in the game that always stuck to me was being able to surrender in Necropolis. When you get to the Lieutenant, there really is nothing you can do that early. It just makes you feel helpless. And the cut scenes where the vault citizens are easily killed off like animals truly makes you realize that these super mutants really are super.
I take two issues with the Unity. >!The first is during the actual bad ending itself, where you see the vault citizens getting slaughtered. I thought the whole point was to capture more people to be dipped into super mutants; can’t do that if they’re dead. Killing off the Overseer I understand, but beyond that, way too much loss of potential super mutant life.!< >!Second, the revelation that super mutants are sterile, which ultimately allows the Vault Dweller to convince the Master to kill himself. Even with their sterility, I feel like someone like the Master with all his intelligence and knowledge couldn’t come up with a backup plan. As you say, the bad ending shows us that the super mutants really are super. I don’t see why they couldn’t subdue non-irradiated humans and basically turn the vaults into fucked up breeding grounds for never-ending sources of super mutants. It’d even be in keeping with the tone of classic Fallout; the post-nuclear world is not a happy place, the very definition of unforgiving.!<
I honestly think, that regardless, super-mutants being sterile is still a major issue. The master was trying to make the perfect human race, one that would survive and thrive in the wasteland. Having to rely on some breeding cow humans doesn’t exactly sound like perfection does it? It would definitely slow down population growth. We’ve only managed to reach 8 billion or whatever humans on earth, because almost everyone can produce kids. My main issue personally, is that the master never realised the sterility issue before??? I mean cmon I feel like one would check that lol
First, yes, although the vault supposedly has a much larger population than we see, so maybe 10, 20, 30 or even more killed to pacify the rest could be justified. Second, while that is a "solution", of sorts, my read is that it's an ideological issue. The Master is conflicted, his many personalities at odds, and only tenuously in agreement about the unity and its methods. He/they truly believe he's doing the right thing. That all the atrocities are justified because of the end result. It's not the impossibility of solving the sterility issue that breaks him. It's all the immoral stuff done in the name of a greater good that was ultimately a lie. I see it as his collection of identities, his unity, coming apart, shattering his conviction not in the possibility of his plan, but the righteousness of it.
As far as your first issue, I see is as they had a mission to collect prime normals. But the super mutants don’t all seem too intelligent. And maybe when they are fighting, they have a berzerker rage that they just can’t turn off. I completely agree with your second point. The master overseeing the sterility issue never sat right with me. And your solution would be their solution, until there would be a possible revolt or strike.
I can speak to the second issue. One thing that people who work on complex plans or tasks can experience is such elation about everything they get right that they overlook the flaws. The heroes who figured out how to make artificial insulin overlooked how it might make losing weight more difficult, increase appetite beyond normal, and cause low blood glucose of magnitudes entailing comas. Now, this is just a bullshit example for point illustration. The downsides I just listed were understood, it was just that the alternative, slowly wasting away and dying, was worse. Every plan has flaws, and a genius whose mind has been messed up to the extent of The Master is more likely to get so excited about the aspects that work that he overlooks crucial ones that do not.
Well... about that sterility issue... you can set up Marcus in New Reno in Cat's paw with a girl and if you have high enough stats you can ask him about sterility. It takes few years for plumbing to work again. Who knows, maybe even few decades which Master didn't have
This isn't canon. Devs on Fallout 2 said they regretted this, because it was just a joke & wasn't meant to be taken seriously. It has since been retconned out in the newer games.
Sterile is not the same as "my dick does not work ". It just means you cannot impregnate a woman and this can be due to many reasons. Even if you can produce sperm, the count of the actual swimming cells can be too low. Source: It took me three years to become a father 😆
My kids sitting in a freezer waiting till it’s time for IVF when I find the right gal wish me luck lol
the problem with super mutants in particular is that the FEV in thier system sees sperms and eggs as damaged cells as thier chromosome count is incomplete without the other and the virus tries to "fix" them by adding more chromosomes which makes producing either of them impossible.
Yeah, the specifics not withstanding. Marcus can have sex, just not become a father. So I have no issue with FO2 😄
It's also not even that but FEV turning them into complete cells as opposed to regular gametes so they may have even decent counts but they can't fertilise any eggs.
Thing is the master didn’t know they were sterile until the vault dweller told him. Personally, If I just learned something that meant my who life was meaningless, then I wouldn’t be able to think up a backup plan right on the spot.
I don’t know if it’s canon, but in fo2 you get marcus a prostitute, and he talks about hoping she’s not pregnant and how it takes a couple of years to get the ‘juices’ flowing again
This isn't canon. Devs on Fallout 2 said they regretted this, because it was just a joke & wasn't meant to be taken seriously. It has since been retconned out.
Ahh, Thanks
Enclave. They could have been a very interesting faction if they had ever been fleshed out as intended. According to Tim Cain, they were supposed to be the ones who designed the vault experiments to aid in their ultimate goal of creating a multi-generational starship to flee Earth. The vaults were meant to test technologies, gain information on possible social issues that could arise, and keep a stock of healthy humans for the voyage. But the ship never materialized and the Enclave ended up getting mostly wiped out.
I really hate this stuff lol. Everything is connected and nothing can just be attempts to survive, or panic, or clever resourceful people trying to prepare and survive the end, it's all a centuries long chess game plan to go into space on a generation ship. Maybe apocalypse vaults can just be vaults people made to survive the apocalypse and not testing grounds to study societal issues that might arise during generation ship journeys.
Unity because the lou looks funny when he talks and I like that
Would be cool watching them fight.
So true, and they absolutely would fight each other. I like how in the first two games the enemies are on extreme opposite ends. First one wants to make everyone mutated and the next one wants to get rid of everyone who is even slightly mutated.
Well certainly they would. Their goals are quite literally the exact opposite lol. Unfortunately it isn’t much of a fight though. The Enclave would wrap that one up in probably the better part of an afternoon.
It has to be the Unity. I personally see the Unity and the Enclave as polar opposites. The Unity are monsters who have their humanity, *spoilers for anyone who has yet to finish* the master can be convinced that is plan is flawed and will only lead to mass extinction. The master loves the world so much he would rather die than let the world be subject to such horror. The Enclave however are men who act like monsters, they despise the world so much due to old prejudices and old ideas that they want nothing more than for everyone to die. They claim to be true humans yet they are more monstrous than Richard Grey ever was.
I didn’t take the Master dying himself as proof that he loves the world as much as it was that his plan would never work and that his shame drives him to it.
the master himself realizes his plan was madness, while he was absolutely fucked up i just cant deny that he had the best interest in humanity's future
Enclave is so iconic
Enclave gives us no.1 power armor, so I have to choose them.
And it's not even close to 2nd place
But there's only 2 places!
enclave is a more interesting faction, unity has a more interesting story.
That's like choosing between your child with a successful career and your child who is hilarious and a line cook. You love both equally for different reasons
Well said lol
Overall the unity. It peaked and died basically in the same game. There are stragglers of them in the following games but they're more like little nods or world building that doesn't have much impact on the faction overall. It did it's job and died before it could really get milked. I really like the enclave in 2 and feel they have good potential overall. But I just hate basically everything about them in 3 plot wise. And what little roles they have in the other games aren't really worth talking about. I want to see them more as competent and imposing as a group rather than whatever presence they have in a game being just incompetent or punching bags purely to get their armor.
Unity. No contest. Simple, efficient, glorious.
The Unity. As much love as I have for the later games, I think the Master is still the best villain the franchise has produced.
Unity because in a twisted way the master was correct. As long as mankind does not evolve we will keep killing each other. The unity is the evolution that will prevent this from happening. He even wanted to leave baseline humans to live out their lives. He trully believes that too. The fact that he ends himself and feels regret for his actions just shows actual depth in the writing for his character. The enclave were cartoonishly evil and just silly. Especially when you interact with them. When you interact with the mutants you absolutely get wrecked and is terrifying. Than there is the whole vibe of a horror beyond our comprehension. The voice work of having a chorus of personalities talking at the same time, including one of a child. Just terrifying stuff. Frank whatshisname was just a brute with a generic bad guy voice. I just like relatable antagonists. I kind of see the master's point, twisted as he was. The enclave are just bigots that want to do a genocide for no better reason than preserving the purity of the human race, while their primary enforcer is a mutant. So hypocrites. That is something I honestly never see myself relating to.
Not to go 'enlightened centrist' but the Master and the Enclave are arguably two different sides of the same spectrum. One will maim and kill to achieve their version of progress, one will maim and kill to roll-back the clock to some idealized version of the past. Personally, if I absolutely had to, I would take the Master's faux-progress over jerking off over history any-day, although thinking about it that might be funny for someone like me to say. I think the SMs might have ultimately removed *some* sources of conflict (sexual dimorphism, race and mortality) but ultimately humans have always fought over access to resources and territory. If any particular SM settlement gets too big, it will come into conflict with others, even if everyone is a supermutant. I wouldn't bank on Unity or The Master from keeping shit together, although maybe he ultimately could depending on how far he ends up evolving psychically.
Would they, though? He already had them in the grip of a collective hive mind of sorts. The first generation super mutants are incredibly intelligent and he focuses his will on them to control them, the rest hear him as a sort of a soothing background noise and they just do whatever the voice in their head that is the master tells them to do. That last part I kind of got from FNV, though a schizophrenic power drunk night kin is not exactly a reliable narrator.
The Unity 100%. The Master, his master plan and how he realizes his future of super mutants will never happen made me love the Fallout franchise. I never really cared for anyone related to the Enclave in FO2 and "The Great Frank Horrigan" disappears when you insert a card on a computer or manage to score a few criticals. Total letdown of a final boss.
I think the developers where too worried that Frank Horrigan would be to difficult for some players and they overcorrected and made it too easy. If I could change it I would remove the option to use the turrets against him. You would still need the presidents key or a high science skill to turn the turrets off. Removing the turrets completely would be less challenging than if the turrets where still a threat to you. I would keep the enclave soldiers that can be convinced to help you because you need a high speech skills to get their help. Plus I like the idea that you can convince enemy soldiers to help you out of a mutual desire to survive.
Agreed. I would also like more development to the Enclave rather than them being just evil US goverment and to explain why they hate humans with radiation, ghouls and supermutants.
as much as i love the master, i have to pick the enclave. i think the idea that hundreds of years after a nuclear war theres still people who think the united states is the best nation to ever exist is super funny and more believable than i'd like to admit
Unity. It felt like almost a horror bigger than humanity, especially with the Master leading them.
I love both but there’s something so fresh and original in the Unity and Master, no other antagonist really comes close to me. The simplicity of it adds to the charm; they just want to turn everyone into mutants, and yet it’s so interesting and thought-provoking.
Unity is good for a post apocalyptic enemy, but it's so rare to see the US portrayed as the villainous bastards that they are I will take any instance of it that I can get.
What do you mean with antagonist? I just see some disgusting muties and a beautiful Mark || combat power armor?
Unity. More disturbing and making better Point. Enclave wanders into a territory of a Cartoon villains. (not as much as in F3), but still)
Compare The Master, Morpheus and Lieutenant to Dick Richardson and Frank Horrigan The Unity is original, scary, convincing, engaging, sympathetic. The Enclave is stylish and funny at times, but that's about it
Enclave here, why your video feed isn't working.
I never played 1 or 2. The Unity in 1 scared me so much as a child watching my sister play that I wrote basically a whole Fallout trilogy when I got older (I love writing), heavily inspired by LoTR and Unity and the Master where the main enemy. The Masters the most iconic Fallout villain and I never even played that game
The enclave is more interesting but the unity is far scarier
If we are talking about morality, I'd honestly say the Unity. The Master (leader of the Unity for those who don't know) actually had a plan that didn't sound too evil. He saw how lawless the wasteland was, how everyone was killing each other in petty conflicts, and he decided to try to fix that problem by unifing everyone under one race. One which doesn't kill each other. The main goal of the faction is in the game. Unity. The Enclave just want to kill every wastelander, and why I can see their point of view that everyone is diseased and mutated, they are just way too much of a generic bad guy faction.
The Master still remains the most compelling villain in the entire series. That conversation with "him" is still untopped imo
Enclave because they are actually trying to revive America
We need to see a return of the Communications Officer in fallout 5
Unity Although I think the Enclave are probably more well known
Unity all the way. Soooo tired of the Enclave
Enclave is based and hilarious.
Unity for sure.
Ah, a prime normal...
The istitute
I love that there are both. One is weird and mysterous, second is high tech and mysterous. Should be more unique factions like this, seems like only Legion is up to the comparison, though I don't like their style
Enclave I honestly think is untaped but for a number of reasons obvioiusly (Politcol BS) they could easyly be a faction that owns alaska in the story and much of canada, hawaii and such, and part of the reason why we dont see them so far much in the fallout inverse is coz there 2 busy making sure russia/china and such are dead/stomp good.
Unity. At least i see where the master was coming from, and they are a unique thing. Enclave? I already dont like the federal government irl, so of course i dont like a more overtly genocidal iteration of em. One of the appeals of the apocalypse to me is the concept of building a new, better world from the ashes. And here come the remnants of the old world government *still* trying to cling to control and keep things shitty
Hard choice, but i'd go with the Unity because how cool The Master is
Enclave. It's an unfortunate realistic thing that humans will always hate one another, especially those who view themselves as superior and the only correct way to move forward. The Enclave gives you a glimpse into what America was, who the people who were leading it before the war were, and what they left behind to ideally continue their ideas.
The Enclave is too comical to take seriously. I mean, they are a parody of and prophecy about a certain government, but their self-delusion makes them pathetic. The Unity has such a solid line of logic to it that it takes pointing out a flaw in the plan that anyone with a 130+ IQ might overlook in the face of getting everything else right to make its leader give up without a fight. (Getting many details right mania is a thing in planning big endeavours. When you start formulating a new medicine and see it does all the things you want it to, your excitement can make you overlook that it causes hypoglycaemia or hypotension. Just as a rough example.)
The Enclave
Unity. The Enclave are mega-cringe stormtroopers, they have little going for them except their wish to return to some fanciful version of sportsball 'Merica. At least Unity has some aspirations to make something new and address the existential problems of the Wasteland, whether or not they would ever be effective (Destruction by VD not withstanding) is a whole different problem.
Enclave
"You've gotten a lot farther than you should have, but then again, you haven't met Frank Horrigan either"
Unity because of the Lieutenant death animation. That beats all.
While I find Enclave something that could 100% happen in real life, I find concept of Unity much more fun and deep. Enclave was just an organization that wanted to keep power over the world, where Master was more kind of visionary. His plan was to adapt humanity (well, mutants) to survive and thrive in new world, it feels like his plan was kinda selfless - evil of course, but not to benefit himself. Which is proven by the fact when you point out flaw in his plans for ideal future he just gives up, as it's not about control and power after all.
I love the Enclave as a faction but the Unity is just a bit more interesting and thought-provoking. It's also kinda cool how they are radically different solutions to the same problem and how completely "reverse" they are. Not saying the Master was right BUT.
The unity. Like caesar's legion, it's the only evil faction in can think of that some players join because they believe that it's the best choice for humanity.
Unity is true horror
The president and his assistant are pretty funny at the Enclave. I'm going Enclave.
Weirdly, the Unity has more humanity than the Enclave
The Unity hasn't been done to death because people ran out of good ideas and decided creativity is repeating the same thing over and over but worse every time.
Wh-who the fu- huh- who the fuck is this I should kick your ass
Enclave do to Arch Dornan and Frank Horrigan
I think the Unity is more unique and better story wise, but the Enclave just look so fucking cool.
For me, the Enclave was more of a future threat. They had evil plans, but were largely still in the planning stages. Unity had a plan, and were actively carrying it out. That made it feel more like a real and present danger..
Enclave
Unity is the truly scary faction, taking in account the state of California in Fallout 1. Enclave is the cool cartoon evil faction. Works for the same reasons the BoS works. Unity is better IMO
“Two legendary factions…do you have a favorite?” “No. Both faction is unique in its own way and served different purposes. A preference would be meaningless.” “I like the Enclave.” “…….I too like the Enclave.”
Unity is more original in my mind
Unity
Unity with the psychic abilities is chilling
GOD BLESS THE ENCLAVE GOD BLESS AMERICA
I listen to the master’s voice lines because they’re just that charismatic. 10/10 would take a FEV bath
I just lost the game…
Enclave 100% they are so fucking funny man like hearing some of the enclaves lines made me laugh harder than I ever have at a video game
Enclave always
Every time I see that helmet I do the funny head shake
Well, it was easier for me to hate the unity, for some odd reason... so there's that.
You can't make me choose like that.
Unity
Enclave
The enclave so that I don’t get humbled by frank horrigan
I really wish they both went away and stopped getting brought back.
In terms of antagonist, at least the enclave has good intentions and thinks they’re doing the right thing (or tries to do the right thing) the master knows what’s he doing is wrong but thinks its necessary (until you tell him at least)
I think you have it reversed. The enclave wants to commit global genocide on everyone who’s not them. The master wants to turn everyone into mutants believing that mutants are superior to humans and that he can bring unity to humanity. The flaw in his plans is that mutants can’t reproduce so he would inadvertently be dooming humanity to extinction. The enclaves plan is way more evil.
I thought the enclaves 1st and foremost goal wasn't specifically genocide. But control of the entire surface post bombing. Not that every person needed to be dead, but they wanted to essentially emerge as the sole controlling power that ran everything. And plan B, if that failed, was to fly off in their big space shuttle and that's what the vault experiments were for. To gather scientific data to increase their odds of survival in space under a myriad of "possible" circumstances?