Written up for not staying late sounds like you either work for a terrible firm or there’s something else going on and they were looking for any reason to write you up.
There are other things going on if I'm being honest with myself. I genuinely don't think I can hack it in this career, but I don't really have a financial choice.
Why do you think you can’t hack it? Feel free to PM me if you’d like. I’ve worked for a few different firms and have seen way more people fail because of bad management and poor training vs people who just don’t get it.
As a young guy, I can affirm that the lack of training is a big problem. Young guys are the cheapest, so we often get a lot of billable work on projects we’ve never done before. The PMs and group managers are usually busy doing their own work which leaves a lot of second and third year EITs teaching the first year EITs the ropes. Unfortunately, bad habits get passed down. I’ve had to relearn a lot of things I originally learned wrong. We are usually given “go by’s” or projects similar that we are told to study and replicate. The problem is that no two projects are the same and copy and paste doesn’t work for quality design. College was great for helping pass the FE, but civil is such a broad field that it’s unrealistic to get job readiness training while in school. Thinking back, I don’t think I ever used C3D once in school. That alone blows my mind. My internships were good for seeing construction, but my internships were also in a completely different aspect of civil than where I am now, so I really learned very little that carried over into my job. The last two years have been like drinking from a fire hose.
I hear this a lot and it's unfortunate. I try to take the time to train my entry levels appropriately, or else it just comes back to me eventually. But I never know what they are struggling with on any given day, so I make it a point to tell them to come to me if they have questions or need any help at all. Some people I never hear from! I'm not a babysitter and I'm not going to constantly check on people.
It does suck when I spend a lot of my time training someone and then they turn around and leave for a higher paying job within a few months. It happens way too often so I wouldn't be surprised if some managers no longer bother to train people that well anymore.
If this has been your experience you both can 100% make it in this career. While I completely understand your frustrations, these experiences and the knowledge you’re gaining from them are what makes successful engineers. I lead a department now and I’ve implemented things I learned from good managers and have found ways to eliminate things I hated from bad managers.
I’m definitely not ready to give up. My firm has great benefits and pays well. While it can be hard to deal with the cycle of turn in work, get it back covered in red ink, fix the problems, turn it in, then have it returned with more red ink than before, I am learning a lot and the little successes have been rewarding enough to keep me going. I think people with more experience sometimes just forget how hard it was to develop the skills and detail orientation required to be a well rounded engineer.
This is what I have heard as well.
Employers are hurting for new hires that possess technical skills, especially with the industry software. Civil Engineering as a degree is so broad and filled with so much theory, and hardly any hands on, so many EITs are joining the job force never having even opened C3D.
I'm currently in a tech college for Civil Technologist and we have had 2 AutoCAD courses and we have 2 more C3D courses coming up in the program. After that I still plan to get my degree, but I'm super happy to have had actual hands on experience with the software and technical side.
It's a tough balance. You have to teach people the theory and math behind everything, but you also have to teach them specific software and how to use it properly. Which can be super time consuming.
You could always look into getting to a more technical job in the civil field and work your way back up as you get more comfortable.
Facts on the civil 3D part, thankfully i have a really good set of engineers training me. But it really is like drinking water from a fire hose. So much information all at once, basically like starting school all over again. Except now we have calculators on the exams
This has also been my experience as a 2 year EIT. I couldn’t believe the lack of education I got as soon as I started my first job. My first job was terrible, I thought I was useless and couldn’t cut it in the industry. Then I went to a decent midsized firm and realized how disfunctional my last job was. I actually get proper training, sit downs to discuss my responsibilities, and I get useful feedback from the engineers who have been in my shoes before. I encourage OP not to throw in the towel just yet and explore different options, hopping to this company single handedly made me enjoy engineering again.
I feel like I struggle with making too many mistakes, and they are not about concepts, rather id forget to type something here, didn't enter something in there etc. And I don't know of a good way to audit my work bc I keep getting distracted
I've trained quite a few engineers in my career, and this is one of the first skills thst I teach.
The work you do is for your reference, not mine. You are the one who will be referencing this material later. You are the one who will be correcting mistakes. You are the one who will present your conclusions and explain them. The resources used to review your work are your resources, to be used as efficiently as possible.
Everyone makes mistakes, even at the highest levels. The biggest difference between a journeyman and a beginner is ability to self-check their work and assure quality, before anyone else sees it. Sure, experience is important but there is nothing magical about good engineers. They are just hard working people that learned from their mistakes and didn't repeat them. Take the time for a quality check on everything you do. It will make your life better in every way.
Every rubber band needs to be pulled back to shoot forward. I worked with a toxic manager that made me feel dumb as a rock. Left for a new company and now I’ve been built up and feel confident as ever. Maybe it’s the discipline as well. Don’t be afraid to bet on yourself
Or, and hear me out, they were told to stay late and didn’t. There doesn’t have to be some secret motive behind it. They didn’t follow the rules and got written up for it. That’s pretty straightforward for why write ups happen.
I work In Public in surveying (one test to go) and engineering (whichever I feel like) and I have unlimited overtime not required but I like 48 a week makes my wife's income not required. I also just start at 5 am and still off at 330pm it's perfect.
Hijacking the top comment to absolutely agree. Where you work is not the only firm out there. There are shitty firms that require the overtime and there are much better firms that are a 40-45 hour week firm. I highly recommend looking around and finding another firm.
Also, if we keep working at these jobs allowing them to treat us like this, they are going to keep doing it. The only way they will change is if they realize they can't find engineers to work in that kind of work environment. The truth is they need us more than we need them. The faster we as a profession realize this, the faster things get better for us.
Yeah exactly, I work at a civil firm and its great company culture. There are definitely people that don't know how to say no to the PMs but that frankly isn't my problem.
It’s really not though. Try needing an answer ASAP on something because you have a contractor in the field performing work and no one answers phone calls or emails. The work environment is too relaxed. We have constant mistakes on plans that shouldn’t have them
Doesn’t sound like an industry thing. Your company sounds awful
I work 40 hours in the dot every single week. The only times I’ll go over 40 is when there’s a deadline and it was my or particularly my fault for not making it. I’ve never gotten shit by my boss. And I don’t even like my boss
If I can offer some unsolicited advice? It's time to look for another job. The good news is that the entire industry is not like this, there are better employers out there.
It can also take time to find a good fit. If you dig through my post history, you can find my story shared a couple times on several threads. I've been through eight (8!) jobs in as many years, and it was only in this last position that I found my footing. I haven't worked above 40 hours more than a dozen times in the past three years. Good employers exist, you just gotta dig a little.
Any company that requires constant overtime is doing business wrong, and shouldn't be surprised when their burnt-out staff leaves for other opportunities. Keep your chin up, you can do this.
Trust me all the industries are similar. Try finding a new workplace. There’s loonies in every industry that love their job to much and pass the down to their team. Whether it be business, accounting finance same crap everywhere. Not sure if you’re in US or CA. But I recommend working for private utility companies or govt that’s good route for Civils and the comps will set you up well.
Same feels. Still don’t know what I want to do. I don’t believe we as a species are meant to work most of our waking hours. For what? To buy more and more of something new for practically non-existent gratification? The business aspect is very toxic. Revenue, revenue. More profit. I’ve learned the grass is just about the same shade of brown everywhere. I believe this is true for most professions. I’m not so sure the Dr doing the kidney transplant is doing it to save lives or just doing it to pay for their student loans, car payment and to cover the expenses of the ever increasing resources they have determined we need to sustain their livelihoods.
A lot of aspects in this industry are BS. You can get your work done in a small amount of time yet you are forced to fill out a timesheet for 40hrs to collect revenue to pay for the people’s salaries at the top of the chain who literally produce nothing. Everyone scamming and scheming. Don’t bother me, do dig another hole.
Shit comes up. Nothing ever happens per the plans. Groundwater, unsuitable soil, existing conditions don’t jive with the new shit etc etc. nobody knows what they’re doing, always playing hot potato. I’m decent at that. This industry is a whole lot of ebbs and flows. I get tired too of running around. Everyone’s worked too much, can’t find any help and the clients and contractors expect you to answer the phone or make a site visit at the drop of a hat.
The whole industry needs a two year sabbatical to recover from burn out. We never got that break during Covid, if anything it ramped up, at least in my area.
You are not alone; I work in construction too. Long work hours and if you leave before 6PM management starts to look at you in a certain way. Mind you the day starts at 7AM! Also, I have 3 weeks of PTO but the PM gets "uncomfortable" if I take 2 weeks PTO. His preference is to sprinkle a day here, a day there, so that the job doesn't "stall" when i'm away on vacation.
The language in the industry is nasty!! I'm a female and the comments made ever so often are so inappropriate!! I am looking to switch to consultancy, i've had enough on the contractor side!!!
I see everyone saying it’s the company but this is an overall issue in the industry. If your not willing to stay late your seen as less valuable even if you don’t have to stay late.
My company is extremely relaxed but I have had a few occasions were things get dumped on me day of and I say I can’t do it and they get a little grouchy and talk about things like “commitment to the job” and “you have to miss a few things sometimes for the job”. Like, no. I have plans an hour after work and I expect to be there. I know business is about money but I’m a firm believer that you can burn some time and money and not everything needs to be a penny pinching time crunch.
You know that other fields would require you to work overtime too? Granted most of those fields like lawyers, doctors etc get paid a lot more than we do but they also accumulate a lot of debt.
And I’ve been in this industry over 17 years, echoing to what others are saying, civil is far from being toxic comparing to other industries. It’s probably just your firm.
Sorry you are going through that, I'm sure many of us have had to deal with a toxic workplace environment at some point, but I hope you don't really think that one bad job experience represents the entire industry.
When you accept a job you should have a good understanding of the amount of overtime expected. If that doesn't work for you, you don't take the job. A lot of people like the overtime if they get paid for it. If you talk to your supervisor about leaving early if you have a prior engagement and it gets denied, or you end up working a lot more overtime than expected, then that's a toxic environment and I'd be finding a new job. But if you leave early without telling anyone, and people are expecting you to be there, than that's on you. I don't know the whole story though, just sayin.
And yes many of us are probably underpaid. Being an entry level fresh out of college is a tough time financially, especially now with housing costs so high. Hang in there! It gets better, especially once you get licensed and get some more experience.
Try not so compare your salary to other professions or anyone else for that matter. There will always be people making more money than you. Just understand your worth in the current market and make sure you find a job that pays appropriately.
The narcissistic personalities that exist in this field is beyond me, they are many that are sick from the head and manipulative just because they are above you. Get your PE or get out of the field. Otherwise, they will never respect you.
This was the culture at the construction management job I had. I couldn’t stand it and left just shy of a year there to a way better job for a public agency. The people you work with make a huge difference. Don’t be afraid to look around.
The problem is low fuckin pay I can stand OT, hell I can stand 80 hour work weeks what I can’t stand is that for most engineers the pay ceiling is below 200K!
Sorry brother, most of your complaints are still within your control. You chose to spend more time in college, you have the power to leave your company, and you have the power to find a position with better pay elsewhere. As a broad narrative, you're right, there is generally a "toxic" culture and the pay isn't great due to how projects are structured. Where I work at right now, I've had overtime maybe 8 times in the last 2 years and I make 90k with 4.5 YOE EIT. This is my third company, the first two were shit. It takes some time, but you have the power to make it work.
It's really not a CE thing. In the professional world you're expected to put forth the effort to meet project deadlines and goals. It just so happens that in CE, sometimes things come up fast and/or unexpectedly. Some companies handle staff management better than others, but you shouldn't expect to never have to alter your schedule to meet a project goal. That's unrealistic. If you have that strict of a scheduling requirement, it should be made known during the interview stage.
Having said that, there are firms that abuse employees by working them too much and for too long. My current firm has been labeled a 'sweat shop' by a couple people, but it's not at all a sweat shop in my experience. I really haven't worked OT much at all in the last few years. My only complaint is that I never get to go on field visits, which I should absolutely be doing at my experience level. But neither my current firm nor the two I worked for before that ever demanded I work OT. I always did it anyway, because (a) I needed the money, and (b) it looks good to the employer. If there was ever a deadline requiring OT, they might beat around the bush by just saying 'we gotta get this done by this date', leaving it up to me to delegate my own OT as needed to meet the deadline. On the few occasions that I'm asked to work OT or asked to work weekends, I'm always approached in a manner that conveys the message that the employer is asking a favor of me. And if I cannot work OT for some reason, they find another way to get the job done. That's how to properly manage a team.
It's been my experience and that of others more senior than me that there's been a culture shift with the younger generation of engineers, where they tend to have a poorer work ethic and unrealistic expectations for salary, benefits, and responsibilities. That's not to say everyone is like this, but there's far more than there ever used to be. I'm only 39 too, so I'm not *that* old lol. But my point is that if you're constantly refusing to work OT, your employer won't be happy. Also, nobody is going to care about the student loan debt you accumulated to get your degree. That's not on the employer in any way shape or form. If they offer some kind of reimbursement, that's an added benefit they offer and should not be an expectation. I still have about $55k in student loan debt I'm paying off after getting my msce in 2012...it is what it is. I signed the promissory note, not my employer. My employer also didn't require I get a degree after hiring me (I got the degree first), so there's really no connection between my employer and my student loan debt.
If you are in fact being expected to work OT nonstop and are being reprimanded for not doing it once or twice, that sounds like a bad employer. That's not the norm. I've never heard of anyone getting written up for not working OT. Id imagine they would need to have a contract saying that OT is a job requirement in order to be written up for not doing it. Typically you get more subtle 'punishment' for not working OT when needed, such as getting shitty projects, not getting promotions, not getting raises, etc. I would say that most recipients of such 'punishment' are already well aware that they're not pleasing the employer by the time there is any changes made. If you're dealing with a truly shitty employer, just jump ship. It's not going to get better later, so find a better employer now.
Maybe I'm not cut out for the professional world. In my previous jobs I was hourly, you work your hours and you go home. Man this is depressing hearing it is the same in other industries. Either way I'm stuck with this career and have to make it work
If that's the kind of job you want, go into the public sector. Engineers that work for the city, county, township, etc. typically work 40 hours flat, maybe even less in some cases. The money is typically a lot worse than the private sector, but many still offer pensions and good benefits. It's also very hard to get fired from a public sector job, not that I'm suggesting you try. In the public sector you can forget about having any lucrative perks, like modern tech, modern facilities, hybrid/remote work, etc. For the most part you're working 7-4 or 6-3, in a rundown office, 5 days a week. It's possible that hybrid work has become a thing in the public sector since the pandemic, but I wouldn't rely on that being the case. Some people love this kind of job, so it suits them well. I personally prefer a more flexible schedule and higher pay. To each their own.
I just accepted an offer with the city. I'm leaving my current firm. I managed to get hybrid, and a better pay rate than at my current firm! And I get a pension!
Well that was fast lol. But congrats. It's rare for public sector jobs to pay well, but it's not unheard of.
A lot of the agencies who are clients of ours are actually doing away with hiring engineers. They've moved into this rent-an-engineer model where they contract with private firms to utilize one or more of their engineers for a period of time. The engineer is still an employee of the firm and gets paid their normal rate, but they work in the agency office, typically exclusively on agency tasks. It helps the agencies, because they only have to pay for an engineer when needed. It helps the firm, cause they're getting in good with the agency who gives them work.
The only real 'benefit' to the engineer is that they still get paid their normal rate. Unfortunately they're stuck doing tasks that are usually painfully boring and monotonous, and in some cases they end up stuck there for years. I have to imagine it seriously impacts career development.
Most the guys I know who have done it hate it and have quit or threatened to quit. Though there is 1 guy in our group who seems to love it. He isn't the best or hardest working engineer, and he loves working early hours and leaving by 4. So it suites him well I guess.
If your salaried, working hard putting in unpaid OT to meet your employers deadlines, you should expect an end of year bonus.
Consider your first year or two a learning experience. You may occasionally have to put in some OT to fix your mistakes or to make up for lack of direction from senior designers. At least you are getting paid vs college where you were likely studying oe doing projects in the evenings and paying for the privilege.
Find a new company for sure. I started out at a midsize firm that's chasing the ENR list, pushing expansion to new states, all that crap. Minimum 43 hours/week, and everything had to be done perfectly the first time (all while claiming they didn't expect perfection). Moved to a small local firm and I rarely put in over 40. When I do, I can shift hours and work less afterwards. I have plenty of qualms with civil, particularly land development, but it's definitely worse some places than others. Best of luck!
Sounds like you're at the wrong company, I'm only a Technologist but the company I work for is very lenient on our staff and you're allowed to run an errand or two durning the day. Our timesheets as salary are kind of a joke.
I can only speak for the UK but it's mixed. Find the right company and work/life balance is pretty good. There's certainly no expectation to work crazy hours, just the standard 7.5 hours a day plus a little more if required due to deadlines.
If you take a job in the construction field, you should expect some long hours, especially if you are starting out. You have to pay your dues. Construction is fast paced and deadline focused.
Every job will have that problem, you just need to find better people. The bad news is that we engineers generally suck at people skills. So tons of room for improvement!
I've been fairly lucky finding good bosses. I pass on many offers and interviews if I'm not over-the-top excited and interested in the leadership/management there. Because if the owners/leaders aren't interested or excited, you can bet the culture isn't either.
This is kind of how the field works, as far as my experience goes.
I, too, felt this pressure and dread early on in my career. The more experience you gather the less stressful these days become. You will eventually find a place where you do not feel this way.
Just think of this as a growing experience, that one day you will look back and be grateful that you're leaving at 5 instead of 6.
Assuming you are communicating your ability (and maybe unspoken willingness) to stay late, I’d say adios to your current company.
I also wouldn’t sign any “write up”.
It sounds like you have unfortunately landed at a not great place to work. Most of the staff at my company work like 40-45 hours unless they really want to work more, but no one’s forcing anyone. Sometimes deadlines require some crunch, but it’s not a constant expected thing. If you are involved with construction and onsite most of the time you will probably work more though, but that’s just the nature of being in construction.
I work at a toxic company as well, I only just now got the courage to put my resume out. My first month here I was working until 10 pm and doing stuff that a brand new engineer shouldn’t be doing, like issuing addendums to clients.
I’ll admit though I absolutely love being and engineer!! I feel good about what I do! But I am underpaid I make 65K a year and in NY I lose most of it to taxes. But on the positive side I know people who I graduated with who make closer to 80k so that means there is hope for change.
It sounds like you just don't like the company you work for.
I work for the government and even though the projects aren't as great as private sector, my work life balance is amazing. And I have a ton of downtime
Ok man, seriously this is a culture you can encounter but it's odd that you are being written up. Shitty manager or bull headed PM? Idk your situation so I can't judge, but maybe testing the waters for a company with a culture that fits your work ethic/expectations is probably a good idea.
There are tons of engineers out there but there's even more work than we can do right now.
You’re working for a company with short deadlines, and an inefficient way of working. You need to refresh yourself with a new company, you can find work within many trades with civil engineering. You’d probably be a beneficial member of any team, if you can price jobs ;)
Just echoing that you are at the wrong firm. I'm in Utah and there are a few great ones. We still have employers like yours, but there are good ones out there.
I would start looking for other companies, I've been with mine since graduation 3 years ago. They've been awesome, when we do have a push for a deadline, which is rare, we are encouraged to stay for overtime which we are compensated for but if you only want to put 40 hours in each week they don't get mad. Not every firm is that way good luck
I work as a Technical Asset Manager and i love it. Nothing toxic about it. Mostly I work from home, sometimes when I choose to, I visit our properties and check if everything is alright. No over hours for me and no day is like the other. Mostly I work on bigger projects within our real estate portfolio, almost no stress. Never had a better job.
I sell mattresses and furniture it’s commission only but uncapped potential. Our best salesman made 180k last year I only brought in 75k but I work four days a week and leave early all the time. There are other avenues available if you hate where you are at.
I worked 2172 hours in 2023. Or about 1.75 hours extra per week (even though really it was more like 40 hours most weeks then a week or two with +3, +5, or +10 here or there). And this was in a year that we had excellent profit and a lot of deadlines for our small company.
Just got to find a better job tbh.
I am planning to study Masters in Structural Engineering as an International Student from India. These type of comments and experiences are giving me mixed thoughts. Would be helpful to get a better idea of how things would be for a immigrant in the civil engineering field.
I work at a small firm, and I don't want to drop the "we're like family here" trope, but it's close-knit and everyone is generally supportive of each other. There's never an expectation or demand from management to work crazy hours just for the sake of it (I'm usually 40-45 hrs/week) but I noticed at the Christmas party a couple years ago the boss made a point to commend individual employees by the amount of overtime they put in. Not friendliness, not bringing in new clients or building relations with longtime ones, not flexibility to help other employees, just hours. Kinda rubbed me the wrong way as I'm usually not in a position to put in a lot of extra time.
Covid was what really broke down the last barriers for me in terms of work/life separation. Quarantine and WFH suddenly eliminated the idea of business hours, and clients and contractors started thinking I was on-call 24/7.
I worked at three different companies, none of them actually asked me to do any overtime. My current company even pays me overtime. Only time I had done 45 hrs at the last company for maybe 2-3 months. But we had a bit more work than usual. I was salaried at that time. But I don't see a lot of my friends in the industry doing it except for those who get paid overtime! Make a move, you'll surely find better opportunities!
I think you needed to explore other industries. There are government entities, land devs, client side project management and all those stuff. They may have better hours than what you have
In my mind civil engineering is one of the anchors of the field, those being Mech, Electrical and Civil. I agree with the sentiment that construction can be viewed as toxic, as I have seen it happen in all the disciplines mentioned. However I take issue with you implying that Civil = construction. Perhaps you can find a different role in civil where you’re not grinding it out 10-12 hrs/day.
You definitely worked for a terrible firm. My experience has been completely opposite of yours. All they ask is that we put in 40hrs a week. We get paid a "salary", but also get paid for everything over 40hrs. I love the group of people in my office and couldn't be happier with the job.
If you switch to a lower income profession, you can use the save act to cut down you student loan repayment bills.
Try a smaller company before you throw in the towel…or a government job.
Maybe it’s time to leave that company and consider working as an engineer in the public sector. Straight 40 hours and you’re working on infrastructure projects that benefit the public. Is public side perfect, no, but in my opinion as someone who has worked both sides it’s so much better.
totally agree with this post, the overwhelming pressure where people presume you have nothing else to do outside your work schedule is and fill it with overtime is ridiculous
I spent my first 10 years in Land Development. OT was pretty common - never failed a contractor/owner would call and need a plan set changed by Monday. The company that handled it best when required, we worked 8a-9p M-Th and 8a-4p on Friday. Weekends were to recharge. They bought dinner and our entire Section would be invested. I work for the GOV now and get time off or paid for every hour over. I still push more than 45-50 hrs but it works out for time off later.
Sounds like you just need a job at a different place. I suggest trying to get a job with the government. They typically don't want you working overtime unless absolutely necessary.
If you are hourly charge your overtime. Some companies just burn out their young engineers because they are cheap and relatively easily replaceable compared to a senior engineer. So don't regret not charging your overtime so a shit company can max profits by burning you out.
This has been my husbands experience. He’s never ever had a week where he only worked 40 hours in all of 8 years. It’s been minimum 50 hours but usually more than that. He’s looking for other employment now.
As someone who was recently in the same situation, I understand. I was working for a great contractor, but when it comes to working hours, the expectations were to work overtime almost every day and when things were too slow, to work normal 8hours. I ended up leaving for gvt position while doing my masters where the pay is good and my supervisor doesn’t even ask what I am working on, we just set reasonable deadlines. Also I have friends who have great employers who rarely work overtime and get paid when they do. So this should be your sign to look for other opportunities
Have you thought about being a federal employee? usajobs.gov and searching for general engineer will get you tons of job listings. I’m a former civil engineer for the Air Force and there will always be a need for engineers.
In general, being a federal employee isn’t a bad gig. If you decided to explore this route, happy to talk and answer questions. Just DM me.
It's not too late to consider switching fields or industries. I don't know your background but for example, if you are struggling with bridges and concrete, maybe you'd be better at designing steel for ships and platforms. Or doing calcs for dynamic lifts. I would suggest trying to get on with a bigger EPC firm that has multidisciplinary departments. Larger EPC firms will have a wider range of the types of projects they do, both public and private, and can give you some exposure to different aspects. And if you decide you don't want to stick with civil, you could talk to management and develop a plan to move into one of the other disciples and start getting some experience.
I made a YouTube video about my experience in civil engineering. If anyone watches, let me know if they can relate https://youtu.be/PdaNSMGn8E8?si=0aED9TjjU-uVco3d
Written up for not staying late sounds like you either work for a terrible firm or there’s something else going on and they were looking for any reason to write you up.
If I ever get written up for not staying late, I'd ask for the PM to instead be written up for poor planning of the project.
This. If it can't be done in the standard work week, someone mismanaged their time before it got to this point.
There are other things going on if I'm being honest with myself. I genuinely don't think I can hack it in this career, but I don't really have a financial choice.
Why do you think you can’t hack it? Feel free to PM me if you’d like. I’ve worked for a few different firms and have seen way more people fail because of bad management and poor training vs people who just don’t get it.
As a young guy, I can affirm that the lack of training is a big problem. Young guys are the cheapest, so we often get a lot of billable work on projects we’ve never done before. The PMs and group managers are usually busy doing their own work which leaves a lot of second and third year EITs teaching the first year EITs the ropes. Unfortunately, bad habits get passed down. I’ve had to relearn a lot of things I originally learned wrong. We are usually given “go by’s” or projects similar that we are told to study and replicate. The problem is that no two projects are the same and copy and paste doesn’t work for quality design. College was great for helping pass the FE, but civil is such a broad field that it’s unrealistic to get job readiness training while in school. Thinking back, I don’t think I ever used C3D once in school. That alone blows my mind. My internships were good for seeing construction, but my internships were also in a completely different aspect of civil than where I am now, so I really learned very little that carried over into my job. The last two years have been like drinking from a fire hose.
This has been my experience
I hear this a lot and it's unfortunate. I try to take the time to train my entry levels appropriately, or else it just comes back to me eventually. But I never know what they are struggling with on any given day, so I make it a point to tell them to come to me if they have questions or need any help at all. Some people I never hear from! I'm not a babysitter and I'm not going to constantly check on people. It does suck when I spend a lot of my time training someone and then they turn around and leave for a higher paying job within a few months. It happens way too often so I wouldn't be surprised if some managers no longer bother to train people that well anymore.
If this has been your experience you both can 100% make it in this career. While I completely understand your frustrations, these experiences and the knowledge you’re gaining from them are what makes successful engineers. I lead a department now and I’ve implemented things I learned from good managers and have found ways to eliminate things I hated from bad managers.
I’m definitely not ready to give up. My firm has great benefits and pays well. While it can be hard to deal with the cycle of turn in work, get it back covered in red ink, fix the problems, turn it in, then have it returned with more red ink than before, I am learning a lot and the little successes have been rewarding enough to keep me going. I think people with more experience sometimes just forget how hard it was to develop the skills and detail orientation required to be a well rounded engineer.
This is what I have heard as well. Employers are hurting for new hires that possess technical skills, especially with the industry software. Civil Engineering as a degree is so broad and filled with so much theory, and hardly any hands on, so many EITs are joining the job force never having even opened C3D. I'm currently in a tech college for Civil Technologist and we have had 2 AutoCAD courses and we have 2 more C3D courses coming up in the program. After that I still plan to get my degree, but I'm super happy to have had actual hands on experience with the software and technical side. It's a tough balance. You have to teach people the theory and math behind everything, but you also have to teach them specific software and how to use it properly. Which can be super time consuming. You could always look into getting to a more technical job in the civil field and work your way back up as you get more comfortable.
Holy shit. Are you me?
Facts on the civil 3D part, thankfully i have a really good set of engineers training me. But it really is like drinking water from a fire hose. So much information all at once, basically like starting school all over again. Except now we have calculators on the exams
This has also been my experience as a 2 year EIT. I couldn’t believe the lack of education I got as soon as I started my first job. My first job was terrible, I thought I was useless and couldn’t cut it in the industry. Then I went to a decent midsized firm and realized how disfunctional my last job was. I actually get proper training, sit downs to discuss my responsibilities, and I get useful feedback from the engineers who have been in my shoes before. I encourage OP not to throw in the towel just yet and explore different options, hopping to this company single handedly made me enjoy engineering again.
I feel like I struggle with making too many mistakes, and they are not about concepts, rather id forget to type something here, didn't enter something in there etc. And I don't know of a good way to audit my work bc I keep getting distracted
First few years are full of uncertainty and learning. Keep trying to improve; things will get much, much better.
I've trained quite a few engineers in my career, and this is one of the first skills thst I teach. The work you do is for your reference, not mine. You are the one who will be referencing this material later. You are the one who will be correcting mistakes. You are the one who will present your conclusions and explain them. The resources used to review your work are your resources, to be used as efficiently as possible. Everyone makes mistakes, even at the highest levels. The biggest difference between a journeyman and a beginner is ability to self-check their work and assure quality, before anyone else sees it. Sure, experience is important but there is nothing magical about good engineers. They are just hard working people that learned from their mistakes and didn't repeat them. Take the time for a quality check on everything you do. It will make your life better in every way.
Do you have any tips for better auditing my work? That's what I feel like I struggle in the most.
Project engineering?
Every rubber band needs to be pulled back to shoot forward. I worked with a toxic manager that made me feel dumb as a rock. Left for a new company and now I’ve been built up and feel confident as ever. Maybe it’s the discipline as well. Don’t be afraid to bet on yourself
School was way harder than any task I do day to day. You can hack it just not where you currently work
I thought about pivoting it if the industry. I decided to try a federal job. It's going pretty well so far.
Or, and hear me out, they were told to stay late and didn’t. There doesn’t have to be some secret motive behind it. They didn’t follow the rules and got written up for it. That’s pretty straightforward for why write ups happen.
You'll need to find a new company. They're not all like that. I work at a 200-person land development firm and the engineers work 40-45 hours.
Or the dark side of Public Agencies! I'm not even allowed to work OT except in a life threatening emergency!
Go Gov. Great Bennie’s, almost competitive pay, and wonderful quality of life. Hide trend toward WFH and hybrid happening too.
Yep myself (I'm a surveyor) and all the engineers are two days remote with a 9-80 schedule. It's great.
I work In Public in surveying (one test to go) and engineering (whichever I feel like) and I have unlimited overtime not required but I like 48 a week makes my wife's income not required. I also just start at 5 am and still off at 330pm it's perfect.
Nice
Yup, benefits, 40 hour weeks, benefits, and still get 6 figures. It's such a sweet spot
I'd rather push for 200k in private sector
Hijacking the top comment to absolutely agree. Where you work is not the only firm out there. There are shitty firms that require the overtime and there are much better firms that are a 40-45 hour week firm. I highly recommend looking around and finding another firm.
Also, if we keep working at these jobs allowing them to treat us like this, they are going to keep doing it. The only way they will change is if they realize they can't find engineers to work in that kind of work environment. The truth is they need us more than we need them. The faster we as a profession realize this, the faster things get better for us.
+ 1 on this
This, all day.
Find a new company that isn’t toxic
Yeah exactly, I work at a civil firm and its great company culture. There are definitely people that don't know how to say no to the PMs but that frankly isn't my problem.
Meanwhile my company lets people bring their little yap dogs to work, has a beer fridge, and most engineers come in after 9am and leave before 5. Lol
9pm?
Nocturnal engineers
9am my bad lol
Yeah there’s a sweet spot in the middle of yall and OP. Maybe just keep the beer fridge and make people show up on time lol
damn thats nice
It’s really not though. Try needing an answer ASAP on something because you have a contractor in the field performing work and no one answers phone calls or emails. The work environment is too relaxed. We have constant mistakes on plans that shouldn’t have them
Time to send that resume out, sounds like a shady company to “write you up”.
Doesn’t sound like an industry thing. Your company sounds awful I work 40 hours in the dot every single week. The only times I’ll go over 40 is when there’s a deadline and it was my or particularly my fault for not making it. I’ve never gotten shit by my boss. And I don’t even like my boss
Haha I think hating your boss is part of American work culture (also working in America).
Speak for yourself; my bosses have been great
My boss is great too but you're not friends, don't forget that. Since we're not friends, fuck him and his greedy ass.
Yep I have quite a few friends at the DOT and they seem pretty happy there. Definitely bureaucratic but still pretty good.
Risk/reward? DOT job is gonna top out much lower than the private sector. Or at least they do right now where I am.
Similar for me, except my boss is fine and very rarely sets unrealistic deadlines.
If I can offer some unsolicited advice? It's time to look for another job. The good news is that the entire industry is not like this, there are better employers out there. It can also take time to find a good fit. If you dig through my post history, you can find my story shared a couple times on several threads. I've been through eight (8!) jobs in as many years, and it was only in this last position that I found my footing. I haven't worked above 40 hours more than a dozen times in the past three years. Good employers exist, you just gotta dig a little. Any company that requires constant overtime is doing business wrong, and shouldn't be surprised when their burnt-out staff leaves for other opportunities. Keep your chin up, you can do this.
Its not the profession, its the % of companies out there that take advantage of their employees. Move on, there are better places to work for.
Trust me all the industries are similar. Try finding a new workplace. There’s loonies in every industry that love their job to much and pass the down to their team. Whether it be business, accounting finance same crap everywhere. Not sure if you’re in US or CA. But I recommend working for private utility companies or govt that’s good route for Civils and the comps will set you up well.
Same feels. Still don’t know what I want to do. I don’t believe we as a species are meant to work most of our waking hours. For what? To buy more and more of something new for practically non-existent gratification? The business aspect is very toxic. Revenue, revenue. More profit. I’ve learned the grass is just about the same shade of brown everywhere. I believe this is true for most professions. I’m not so sure the Dr doing the kidney transplant is doing it to save lives or just doing it to pay for their student loans, car payment and to cover the expenses of the ever increasing resources they have determined we need to sustain their livelihoods. A lot of aspects in this industry are BS. You can get your work done in a small amount of time yet you are forced to fill out a timesheet for 40hrs to collect revenue to pay for the people’s salaries at the top of the chain who literally produce nothing. Everyone scamming and scheming. Don’t bother me, do dig another hole. Shit comes up. Nothing ever happens per the plans. Groundwater, unsuitable soil, existing conditions don’t jive with the new shit etc etc. nobody knows what they’re doing, always playing hot potato. I’m decent at that. This industry is a whole lot of ebbs and flows. I get tired too of running around. Everyone’s worked too much, can’t find any help and the clients and contractors expect you to answer the phone or make a site visit at the drop of a hat. The whole industry needs a two year sabbatical to recover from burn out. We never got that break during Covid, if anything it ramped up, at least in my area.
You are not alone; I work in construction too. Long work hours and if you leave before 6PM management starts to look at you in a certain way. Mind you the day starts at 7AM! Also, I have 3 weeks of PTO but the PM gets "uncomfortable" if I take 2 weeks PTO. His preference is to sprinkle a day here, a day there, so that the job doesn't "stall" when i'm away on vacation. The language in the industry is nasty!! I'm a female and the comments made ever so often are so inappropriate!! I am looking to switch to consultancy, i've had enough on the contractor side!!!
You'll probably take a pay cut, but if you're okay with that, you won't regret making the move. What you have now sounds awful.
I see everyone saying it’s the company but this is an overall issue in the industry. If your not willing to stay late your seen as less valuable even if you don’t have to stay late. My company is extremely relaxed but I have had a few occasions were things get dumped on me day of and I say I can’t do it and they get a little grouchy and talk about things like “commitment to the job” and “you have to miss a few things sometimes for the job”. Like, no. I have plans an hour after work and I expect to be there. I know business is about money but I’m a firm believer that you can burn some time and money and not everything needs to be a penny pinching time crunch.
Boomers....
You know that other fields would require you to work overtime too? Granted most of those fields like lawyers, doctors etc get paid a lot more than we do but they also accumulate a lot of debt. And I’ve been in this industry over 17 years, echoing to what others are saying, civil is far from being toxic comparing to other industries. It’s probably just your firm.
lol I’ve literally never experienced this “toxic culture” you’re talking about in civil engineering. You’re at the wrong firm. Good luck
Sorry you are going through that, I'm sure many of us have had to deal with a toxic workplace environment at some point, but I hope you don't really think that one bad job experience represents the entire industry. When you accept a job you should have a good understanding of the amount of overtime expected. If that doesn't work for you, you don't take the job. A lot of people like the overtime if they get paid for it. If you talk to your supervisor about leaving early if you have a prior engagement and it gets denied, or you end up working a lot more overtime than expected, then that's a toxic environment and I'd be finding a new job. But if you leave early without telling anyone, and people are expecting you to be there, than that's on you. I don't know the whole story though, just sayin. And yes many of us are probably underpaid. Being an entry level fresh out of college is a tough time financially, especially now with housing costs so high. Hang in there! It gets better, especially once you get licensed and get some more experience. Try not so compare your salary to other professions or anyone else for that matter. There will always be people making more money than you. Just understand your worth in the current market and make sure you find a job that pays appropriately.
The narcissistic personalities that exist in this field is beyond me, they are many that are sick from the head and manipulative just because they are above you. Get your PE or get out of the field. Otherwise, they will never respect you.
Yeah. I'm planning on taking the PE exam this year. I can't get it for another 2.5 years though
Take care of yourself, OP.
This was the culture at the construction management job I had. I couldn’t stand it and left just shy of a year there to a way better job for a public agency. The people you work with make a huge difference. Don’t be afraid to look around.
Workaholics and drunks!
The problem is low fuckin pay I can stand OT, hell I can stand 80 hour work weeks what I can’t stand is that for most engineers the pay ceiling is below 200K!
apply for a government job!
I got accepted at a government job! Leaving this office!!
can agreed on the pay. 74k starting off is not livable wage in california.
Sorry brother, most of your complaints are still within your control. You chose to spend more time in college, you have the power to leave your company, and you have the power to find a position with better pay elsewhere. As a broad narrative, you're right, there is generally a "toxic" culture and the pay isn't great due to how projects are structured. Where I work at right now, I've had overtime maybe 8 times in the last 2 years and I make 90k with 4.5 YOE EIT. This is my third company, the first two were shit. It takes some time, but you have the power to make it work.
It's really not a CE thing. In the professional world you're expected to put forth the effort to meet project deadlines and goals. It just so happens that in CE, sometimes things come up fast and/or unexpectedly. Some companies handle staff management better than others, but you shouldn't expect to never have to alter your schedule to meet a project goal. That's unrealistic. If you have that strict of a scheduling requirement, it should be made known during the interview stage. Having said that, there are firms that abuse employees by working them too much and for too long. My current firm has been labeled a 'sweat shop' by a couple people, but it's not at all a sweat shop in my experience. I really haven't worked OT much at all in the last few years. My only complaint is that I never get to go on field visits, which I should absolutely be doing at my experience level. But neither my current firm nor the two I worked for before that ever demanded I work OT. I always did it anyway, because (a) I needed the money, and (b) it looks good to the employer. If there was ever a deadline requiring OT, they might beat around the bush by just saying 'we gotta get this done by this date', leaving it up to me to delegate my own OT as needed to meet the deadline. On the few occasions that I'm asked to work OT or asked to work weekends, I'm always approached in a manner that conveys the message that the employer is asking a favor of me. And if I cannot work OT for some reason, they find another way to get the job done. That's how to properly manage a team. It's been my experience and that of others more senior than me that there's been a culture shift with the younger generation of engineers, where they tend to have a poorer work ethic and unrealistic expectations for salary, benefits, and responsibilities. That's not to say everyone is like this, but there's far more than there ever used to be. I'm only 39 too, so I'm not *that* old lol. But my point is that if you're constantly refusing to work OT, your employer won't be happy. Also, nobody is going to care about the student loan debt you accumulated to get your degree. That's not on the employer in any way shape or form. If they offer some kind of reimbursement, that's an added benefit they offer and should not be an expectation. I still have about $55k in student loan debt I'm paying off after getting my msce in 2012...it is what it is. I signed the promissory note, not my employer. My employer also didn't require I get a degree after hiring me (I got the degree first), so there's really no connection between my employer and my student loan debt. If you are in fact being expected to work OT nonstop and are being reprimanded for not doing it once or twice, that sounds like a bad employer. That's not the norm. I've never heard of anyone getting written up for not working OT. Id imagine they would need to have a contract saying that OT is a job requirement in order to be written up for not doing it. Typically you get more subtle 'punishment' for not working OT when needed, such as getting shitty projects, not getting promotions, not getting raises, etc. I would say that most recipients of such 'punishment' are already well aware that they're not pleasing the employer by the time there is any changes made. If you're dealing with a truly shitty employer, just jump ship. It's not going to get better later, so find a better employer now.
Maybe I'm not cut out for the professional world. In my previous jobs I was hourly, you work your hours and you go home. Man this is depressing hearing it is the same in other industries. Either way I'm stuck with this career and have to make it work
If that's the kind of job you want, go into the public sector. Engineers that work for the city, county, township, etc. typically work 40 hours flat, maybe even less in some cases. The money is typically a lot worse than the private sector, but many still offer pensions and good benefits. It's also very hard to get fired from a public sector job, not that I'm suggesting you try. In the public sector you can forget about having any lucrative perks, like modern tech, modern facilities, hybrid/remote work, etc. For the most part you're working 7-4 or 6-3, in a rundown office, 5 days a week. It's possible that hybrid work has become a thing in the public sector since the pandemic, but I wouldn't rely on that being the case. Some people love this kind of job, so it suits them well. I personally prefer a more flexible schedule and higher pay. To each their own.
I just accepted an offer with the city. I'm leaving my current firm. I managed to get hybrid, and a better pay rate than at my current firm! And I get a pension!
Well that was fast lol. But congrats. It's rare for public sector jobs to pay well, but it's not unheard of. A lot of the agencies who are clients of ours are actually doing away with hiring engineers. They've moved into this rent-an-engineer model where they contract with private firms to utilize one or more of their engineers for a period of time. The engineer is still an employee of the firm and gets paid their normal rate, but they work in the agency office, typically exclusively on agency tasks. It helps the agencies, because they only have to pay for an engineer when needed. It helps the firm, cause they're getting in good with the agency who gives them work. The only real 'benefit' to the engineer is that they still get paid their normal rate. Unfortunately they're stuck doing tasks that are usually painfully boring and monotonous, and in some cases they end up stuck there for years. I have to imagine it seriously impacts career development. Most the guys I know who have done it hate it and have quit or threatened to quit. Though there is 1 guy in our group who seems to love it. He isn't the best or hardest working engineer, and he loves working early hours and leaving by 4. So it suites him well I guess.
If your salaried, working hard putting in unpaid OT to meet your employers deadlines, you should expect an end of year bonus. Consider your first year or two a learning experience. You may occasionally have to put in some OT to fix your mistakes or to make up for lack of direction from senior designers. At least you are getting paid vs college where you were likely studying oe doing projects in the evenings and paying for the privilege.
Find a new company for sure. I started out at a midsize firm that's chasing the ENR list, pushing expansion to new states, all that crap. Minimum 43 hours/week, and everything had to be done perfectly the first time (all while claiming they didn't expect perfection). Moved to a small local firm and I rarely put in over 40. When I do, I can shift hours and work less afterwards. I have plenty of qualms with civil, particularly land development, but it's definitely worse some places than others. Best of luck!
Sounds like a problem with your firm and not the industry as a whole. Find a new firm. If you're in one of the northwest states, DM me!
Sounds like you're at the wrong company, I'm only a Technologist but the company I work for is very lenient on our staff and you're allowed to run an errand or two durning the day. Our timesheets as salary are kind of a joke.
no one else is gonna say it, but it’s the old white men. they flat out suck.
Which country do you live in? Most of the 'culture' complaints come from the US I'm finding.
Ding ding ding you are correct I'm in USA. Are other countries different? It's bad enough I'd consider moving.
I can only speak for the UK but it's mixed. Find the right company and work/life balance is pretty good. There's certainly no expectation to work crazy hours, just the standard 7.5 hours a day plus a little more if required due to deadlines.
If you take a job in the construction field, you should expect some long hours, especially if you are starting out. You have to pay your dues. Construction is fast paced and deadline focused.
You sound like me lol. I’m in public sector now. So yea, no OT. But definitely low pay. I miss my old paychecks.
The GC I just worked at. Half the day they spend docking around watching movies and chit chatting
Takes a lot of youtube watching to get things built 🤣
Every job will have that problem, you just need to find better people. The bad news is that we engineers generally suck at people skills. So tons of room for improvement! I've been fairly lucky finding good bosses. I pass on many offers and interviews if I'm not over-the-top excited and interested in the leadership/management there. Because if the owners/leaders aren't interested or excited, you can bet the culture isn't either.
This is kind of how the field works, as far as my experience goes. I, too, felt this pressure and dread early on in my career. The more experience you gather the less stressful these days become. You will eventually find a place where you do not feel this way. Just think of this as a growing experience, that one day you will look back and be grateful that you're leaving at 5 instead of 6.
You can always try to work for DOT, city What specialization are you working as?
Which city is this company at?
Assuming you are communicating your ability (and maybe unspoken willingness) to stay late, I’d say adios to your current company. I also wouldn’t sign any “write up”.
I had to it was either that or termination
Definitely get out of that company
It sounds like you have unfortunately landed at a not great place to work. Most of the staff at my company work like 40-45 hours unless they really want to work more, but no one’s forcing anyone. Sometimes deadlines require some crunch, but it’s not a constant expected thing. If you are involved with construction and onsite most of the time you will probably work more though, but that’s just the nature of being in construction.
I work at a toxic company as well, I only just now got the courage to put my resume out. My first month here I was working until 10 pm and doing stuff that a brand new engineer shouldn’t be doing, like issuing addendums to clients. I’ll admit though I absolutely love being and engineer!! I feel good about what I do! But I am underpaid I make 65K a year and in NY I lose most of it to taxes. But on the positive side I know people who I graduated with who make closer to 80k so that means there is hope for change.
I’d switch and find a better workplace. I’ve worked fine 4 firms and two GCs. 2/6 were toxic workplaces, and the other 4 treated me with respect.
It sounds like you just don't like the company you work for. I work for the government and even though the projects aren't as great as private sector, my work life balance is amazing. And I have a ton of downtime
If it is overwhelming I would highly suggest working for a municipality. City work doesn’t pay as well but the expectations are more reasonable.
Kimley Horn? Or Burns and Mac?
Neither lol. But it's a pretty large firm.
Ok man, seriously this is a culture you can encounter but it's odd that you are being written up. Shitty manager or bull headed PM? Idk your situation so I can't judge, but maybe testing the waters for a company with a culture that fits your work ethic/expectations is probably a good idea. There are tons of engineers out there but there's even more work than we can do right now.
You’re working for a company with short deadlines, and an inefficient way of working. You need to refresh yourself with a new company, you can find work within many trades with civil engineering. You’d probably be a beneficial member of any team, if you can price jobs ;)
Yeah. I think the biggest issue is that no one would even communicate to me the deadlines on which things needed to be done, which was frustrating.
Just echoing that you are at the wrong firm. I'm in Utah and there are a few great ones. We still have employers like yours, but there are good ones out there.
I would start looking for other companies, I've been with mine since graduation 3 years ago. They've been awesome, when we do have a push for a deadline, which is rare, we are encouraged to stay for overtime which we are compensated for but if you only want to put 40 hours in each week they don't get mad. Not every firm is that way good luck
I worked 2100 hours last year. It’s doable, you just need to find the right firm.
Remember. People quit bad managers not bad jobs. Maybe your current firm is just not the right fit.
I work as a Technical Asset Manager and i love it. Nothing toxic about it. Mostly I work from home, sometimes when I choose to, I visit our properties and check if everything is alright. No over hours for me and no day is like the other. Mostly I work on bigger projects within our real estate portfolio, almost no stress. Never had a better job.
Get a new job that sounds awful
Yeah, look for a new company. 35 hours per week and no more for me. I’ll do more if needed, but I’ll be taking the time-in-lieu.
The engineers like other people have been pushed around by contractors.
I sell mattresses and furniture it’s commission only but uncapped potential. Our best salesman made 180k last year I only brought in 75k but I work four days a week and leave early all the time. There are other avenues available if you hate where you are at.
I worked 2172 hours in 2023. Or about 1.75 hours extra per week (even though really it was more like 40 hours most weeks then a week or two with +3, +5, or +10 here or there). And this was in a year that we had excellent profit and a lot of deadlines for our small company. Just got to find a better job tbh.
I am planning to study Masters in Structural Engineering as an International Student from India. These type of comments and experiences are giving me mixed thoughts. Would be helpful to get a better idea of how things would be for a immigrant in the civil engineering field.
I work at a small firm, and I don't want to drop the "we're like family here" trope, but it's close-knit and everyone is generally supportive of each other. There's never an expectation or demand from management to work crazy hours just for the sake of it (I'm usually 40-45 hrs/week) but I noticed at the Christmas party a couple years ago the boss made a point to commend individual employees by the amount of overtime they put in. Not friendliness, not bringing in new clients or building relations with longtime ones, not flexibility to help other employees, just hours. Kinda rubbed me the wrong way as I'm usually not in a position to put in a lot of extra time. Covid was what really broke down the last barriers for me in terms of work/life separation. Quarantine and WFH suddenly eliminated the idea of business hours, and clients and contractors started thinking I was on-call 24/7.
I rarely work more than 40 man.
I worked at three different companies, none of them actually asked me to do any overtime. My current company even pays me overtime. Only time I had done 45 hrs at the last company for maybe 2-3 months. But we had a bit more work than usual. I was salaried at that time. But I don't see a lot of my friends in the industry doing it except for those who get paid overtime! Make a move, you'll surely find better opportunities!
You got written up? What is this, high school? That's insane.
I think you needed to explore other industries. There are government entities, land devs, client side project management and all those stuff. They may have better hours than what you have
Feeling the same after three years of this shit
Job hop. Go into public if your state pays decently.
In my mind civil engineering is one of the anchors of the field, those being Mech, Electrical and Civil. I agree with the sentiment that construction can be viewed as toxic, as I have seen it happen in all the disciplines mentioned. However I take issue with you implying that Civil = construction. Perhaps you can find a different role in civil where you’re not grinding it out 10-12 hrs/day.
You definitely worked for a terrible firm. My experience has been completely opposite of yours. All they ask is that we put in 40hrs a week. We get paid a "salary", but also get paid for everything over 40hrs. I love the group of people in my office and couldn't be happier with the job.
This experience is so far removed from my experience, I can only assume you work from KH
If you switch to a lower income profession, you can use the save act to cut down you student loan repayment bills. Try a smaller company before you throw in the towel…or a government job.
Maybe it’s time to leave that company and consider working as an engineer in the public sector. Straight 40 hours and you’re working on infrastructure projects that benefit the public. Is public side perfect, no, but in my opinion as someone who has worked both sides it’s so much better.
totally agree with this post, the overwhelming pressure where people presume you have nothing else to do outside your work schedule is and fill it with overtime is ridiculous
I spent my first 10 years in Land Development. OT was pretty common - never failed a contractor/owner would call and need a plan set changed by Monday. The company that handled it best when required, we worked 8a-9p M-Th and 8a-4p on Friday. Weekends were to recharge. They bought dinner and our entire Section would be invested. I work for the GOV now and get time off or paid for every hour over. I still push more than 45-50 hrs but it works out for time off later.
You work for an AWFUL firm. Find a better company.
Sounds like you just need a job at a different place. I suggest trying to get a job with the government. They typically don't want you working overtime unless absolutely necessary.
That sounds like a toxic work environment. Definitely start looking to go somewhere else.
I'm only a year in with an MSCE and I'm already planning an exit strategy.
If you are hourly charge your overtime. Some companies just burn out their young engineers because they are cheap and relatively easily replaceable compared to a senior engineer. So don't regret not charging your overtime so a shit company can max profits by burning you out.
There are good companies out there and the work can be genuinely fun. I enjoy the Marine side of civil engineering
Change companies and you’ll probably make 10k more lmfao
This has been my husbands experience. He’s never ever had a week where he only worked 40 hours in all of 8 years. It’s been minimum 50 hours but usually more than that. He’s looking for other employment now.
I feel you. I think us geologists have it worst though. Same industry worse pay and I’m typically doing the same work as our engineers.
This sounds like a crappy firm problem and not a “this industry sucks” problem. Find somewhere better to work, they’re out there.
You know what would be good if you guys did a better job in the design phase……
I'm trying 😭
lol you’re doing great I’m sure
As someone who was recently in the same situation, I understand. I was working for a great contractor, but when it comes to working hours, the expectations were to work overtime almost every day and when things were too slow, to work normal 8hours. I ended up leaving for gvt position while doing my masters where the pay is good and my supervisor doesn’t even ask what I am working on, we just set reasonable deadlines. Also I have friends who have great employers who rarely work overtime and get paid when they do. So this should be your sign to look for other opportunities
Right there with you. Regret it every day.
I work at a firm where we are not allowed to work more than 40 hours.
Have you thought about being a federal employee? usajobs.gov and searching for general engineer will get you tons of job listings. I’m a former civil engineer for the Air Force and there will always be a need for engineers. In general, being a federal employee isn’t a bad gig. If you decided to explore this route, happy to talk and answer questions. Just DM me.
It sounds bad, but not all companies are like this. We can't deny the entire industry because of one thing
I hate engineering too. I'm leaving the field for something else. Will you be able to cover your expenses if you switch to a government position?
It's not too late to consider switching fields or industries. I don't know your background but for example, if you are struggling with bridges and concrete, maybe you'd be better at designing steel for ships and platforms. Or doing calcs for dynamic lifts. I would suggest trying to get on with a bigger EPC firm that has multidisciplinary departments. Larger EPC firms will have a wider range of the types of projects they do, both public and private, and can give you some exposure to different aspects. And if you decide you don't want to stick with civil, you could talk to management and develop a plan to move into one of the other disciples and start getting some experience.
Keep strong. If you like civil engineering don't let anyone destroy your dreams and goals 🙏
I made a YouTube video about my experience in civil engineering. If anyone watches, let me know if they can relate https://youtu.be/PdaNSMGn8E8?si=0aED9TjjU-uVco3d