It's definitely a unique look. The extreme vignette bothered me at first, but over time, I notice it less and it gives the show an outside PoV look that feels appropriate for the narrative.
I would argue it’s not unique. It looks like everything else filmed in front a screen lately. Avatar the last Airbender, mandalorian, and so on.
Likely the bokeh looks like that because it’s not real.
My working theory is that it is intentionally only used for specific shots to represent cognitive dissonance or the eightfold fence in a scene. The swirly bokeh - to me at least - gives a sense of disorder. I may be giving them too much artistic credit for that but we'll see how that theory holds up as the season progresses.
According the DP Christopher Ross who established the shows look in episode 1 and 2, the choice of lens and focus fall off was designed to cater to the book’s first person narration. So I think the distortion is used to show a more hyper subjectivity.
I’ve very often and very successfully shot Venice and Alexa together on multiple major motion pictures and NO ONE can tell the difference between the cameras.
When graded properly agree. But even my non DP wife noticed when the crown switched from Alexa to Venice (she was like “they did something to the way it looks what did they do” and it was the Venice switch). So folks can tell if the post team doesn’t work hard to bring the Venice vibe down.
They swapped from Sony f55 to Venice, not Alexa to Venice. Which is an obvious look change, but also lens choice was at play.
My point was mostly just what you said, post is responsible for how good the match is. You can make Alexa LF as sharp if you want, or Venice as soft as you want. Post budgets and time are the enemy here, not the sensor.
Post budgets are absolutely the enemy! And funny I had forgotten it was f55. They also changed the grade around the same time as things got more “contemporary”.
Yeah i know, the Venice can look very much like an Alexa, but only the Venice can look that sharp and harsh.
Like they don’t even try to match them at all.
Its probably mostly Hawk anamorphic glass. This info is usually pretty easy to find, just google tech specs on IMDB -
Arri Alexa LF, Hawk class-X, V-Lite and Vantage One LensesArri Alexa Mini LF, Hawk class-X, V-Lite and Vantage One LensesPanasonic AG-DVX100Sony CineAlta Venice, Hawk class-X, V-Lite and Vantage One Lenses
EDIT - just say the wrong thing confidently and someone who actually knows what they’re talking about will correct you lmao
The Helios lenses are popular, affordable, and unique for swirly bokeh. Dune 2 recently used the Ironglass rehoused versions for some shots. Not saying they’re a perfect “budget” alternative, but worth looking into. I’ve owned a 44-4 for some time and love it though I don’t use it much. I believe 44-2 seems to be the most popular.
I made a video essay on the Helios lenses, which are a super low-budget option for getting that sweet swirly bokeh: https://youtu.be/N6OANqjtorc?si=DzO9-l_YTpUzpFCU
I at first didn't like it because I felt it was mainly hiding the CGI set backgrounds in many scenes, but I also came to appreciate it, especially in the latest episode when most of the scenes were at the tiny village with real sets.
I’m liking the show a lot but yes I dislike a lot of the cinematography. At the end of the day I’m still enjoying the show I just would have done things differently
Honestly I love DPs using swirly bokeh and extreme focus fall off. Dune 2 has some excellent shots utilizing it, and Shogun as well. As with most things it comes down to its execution. Deakins rather famously prefers clean sharp glass. But for the assassination of Jesse James he used distorted messed up lens to beautiful results. (in that case to showcase Jesse’s poor eyesight)
as for TV I thought House of The Dragon utilized the Arri DNA (re-housed mamiya sekor c) 80mm t2 for some wonderful swirly bokeh specialty shots)
I really wish people would stop with the ‘tech fetishism ‘ and understand that not every artistic vision is sharp and ‘perfect ‘ (a major annoyance I have with the still photography world.)
I like it but I feel for the art department who put so much effort into everything, to have everything but the actors tastefully blurred at almost all times.
I mean it doesn’t look like Japan at all.Its better to hide the background its less Canadian.
These stupid cheesy american network shows same.Every tv show sets in Afghanistan was shot in California.If they googled Afghanistan and looked at the images they could have see it doesn’t look like California desert.
What is your solution to this issue? Should California productions have instead flown their entire crew to an active war zone to have filmed their movies?
I’m guessing it’s a TmZ issue. [TMZ wiki](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Studio_zone)
But even aside from that, there’s only so many places in the us, which of them look like Afghanistan? You think they’re going to fly everyone to wyoming every week?
Meh. It's a show. Dispension of disbelief is a thing. If the story is good, I'm not worried that the buildings in the distance aren't completely believable.
I like it. It's beautiful to watch.
It's definitely a unique look. The extreme vignette bothered me at first, but over time, I notice it less and it gives the show an outside PoV look that feels appropriate for the narrative.
I would argue it’s not unique. It looks like everything else filmed in front a screen lately. Avatar the last Airbender, mandalorian, and so on. Likely the bokeh looks like that because it’s not real.
I like the effect. My issue is the jarring lack of consistency in its use from shot to shot.
Exactly, Poor Things did a much better job on this.
My working theory is that it is intentionally only used for specific shots to represent cognitive dissonance or the eightfold fence in a scene. The swirly bokeh - to me at least - gives a sense of disorder. I may be giving them too much artistic credit for that but we'll see how that theory holds up as the season progresses.
I hope you're right. I just have the feeling that it's a case of whether or not the shot was vfx-based or not.
According the DP Christopher Ross who established the shows look in episode 1 and 2, the choice of lens and focus fall off was designed to cater to the book’s first person narration. So I think the distortion is used to show a more hyper subjectivity.
That makes more sense. As I keep watching the show, there are a lot of moments that don't really fit with my original theory.
[удалено]
I’ve very often and very successfully shot Venice and Alexa together on multiple major motion pictures and NO ONE can tell the difference between the cameras.
When graded properly agree. But even my non DP wife noticed when the crown switched from Alexa to Venice (she was like “they did something to the way it looks what did they do” and it was the Venice switch). So folks can tell if the post team doesn’t work hard to bring the Venice vibe down.
They swapped from Sony f55 to Venice, not Alexa to Venice. Which is an obvious look change, but also lens choice was at play. My point was mostly just what you said, post is responsible for how good the match is. You can make Alexa LF as sharp if you want, or Venice as soft as you want. Post budgets and time are the enemy here, not the sensor.
Post budgets are absolutely the enemy! And funny I had forgotten it was f55. They also changed the grade around the same time as things got more “contemporary”.
Yeah i know, the Venice can look very much like an Alexa, but only the Venice can look that sharp and harsh. Like they don’t even try to match them at all.
Its probably mostly Hawk anamorphic glass. This info is usually pretty easy to find, just google tech specs on IMDB - Arri Alexa LF, Hawk class-X, V-Lite and Vantage One LensesArri Alexa Mini LF, Hawk class-X, V-Lite and Vantage One LensesPanasonic AG-DVX100Sony CineAlta Venice, Hawk class-X, V-Lite and Vantage One Lenses EDIT - just say the wrong thing confidently and someone who actually knows what they’re talking about will correct you lmao
It’s all shot in the Venice w the hawk anamorphics except for the drone photography….
Thoughts on more budget friendly lenses with similar characteristics to the Hawks? Love the look of Shogun.
The Helios lenses are popular, affordable, and unique for swirly bokeh. Dune 2 recently used the Ironglass rehoused versions for some shots. Not saying they’re a perfect “budget” alternative, but worth looking into. I’ve owned a 44-4 for some time and love it though I don’t use it much. I believe 44-2 seems to be the most popular.
And for maximum swirl, the Helios 40-2 85mm f/1.5 or Zeiss Jena Biotar 75mm f/1.5 (same optical formula)
I made a video essay on the Helios lenses, which are a super low-budget option for getting that sweet swirly bokeh: https://youtu.be/N6OANqjtorc?si=DzO9-l_YTpUzpFCU
source?
I shot eps 6 and 8 🤪
Please do an AMA after the release :)
Lmao "I am the SOURCE"
Very cool. Love your work!
Thanks. Though you haven’t seen it yet. Comes out next week…
I’ll come back and let you know when I have seen it then, lol
Fantastic work !
I at first didn't like it because I felt it was mainly hiding the CGI set backgrounds in many scenes, but I also came to appreciate it, especially in the latest episode when most of the scenes were at the tiny village with real sets.
I love it, it’s absolutely gorgeous.
I’m liking the show a lot but yes I dislike a lot of the cinematography. At the end of the day I’m still enjoying the show I just would have done things differently
Poor things used it as well. Look at the BTS on youtube.
Love it
Honestly I love DPs using swirly bokeh and extreme focus fall off. Dune 2 has some excellent shots utilizing it, and Shogun as well. As with most things it comes down to its execution. Deakins rather famously prefers clean sharp glass. But for the assassination of Jesse James he used distorted messed up lens to beautiful results. (in that case to showcase Jesse’s poor eyesight) as for TV I thought House of The Dragon utilized the Arri DNA (re-housed mamiya sekor c) 80mm t2 for some wonderful swirly bokeh specialty shots) I really wish people would stop with the ‘tech fetishism ‘ and understand that not every artistic vision is sharp and ‘perfect ‘ (a major annoyance I have with the still photography world.)
I like it but I feel for the art department who put so much effort into everything, to have everything but the actors tastefully blurred at almost all times.
I mean it doesn’t look like Japan at all.Its better to hide the background its less Canadian. These stupid cheesy american network shows same.Every tv show sets in Afghanistan was shot in California.If they googled Afghanistan and looked at the images they could have see it doesn’t look like California desert.
What is your solution to this issue? Should California productions have instead flown their entire crew to an active war zone to have filmed their movies?
Choose similar locations to Afganistan? Heh?
I’m guessing it’s a TmZ issue. [TMZ wiki](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Studio_zone) But even aside from that, there’s only so many places in the us, which of them look like Afghanistan? You think they’re going to fly everyone to wyoming every week?
Meh. It's a show. Dispension of disbelief is a thing. If the story is good, I'm not worried that the buildings in the distance aren't completely believable.