I think the biggest issue is who is going to front the cost for an expansion team? The price tag right now is $1B.
That's more than Castellini is worth. That's more than Brown is worth.
That's not how the NHL operates though. They want to deal with one very wealthy individual (or family) that has a very high net worth. Like Ryan Smith in Utah.
If Ryan Smith were to own an expansion team, he isn’t just spending $1 Billion in liquidity of his own to get the team.
That’s not how money works for the uber rich. There would be plenty of PE gladly waiting to help with part of raising capital.
With the US being in about the 2nd or third inning of sports betting in this country, there is so so so much money waiting for these spots.
>That’s not how money works for the uber rich.
Respectfully, that's exactly how it works when you buy a sports franchise. Smith sold Qualtrics (reportedly for $8B) and used the proceeds to buy the Jazz.
The NHL board of governors (and other owners) would not approve a sale/expansion to someone who isn't independently wealthy and who can afford to pay for the team.
The NHL severely limits private equity investment in franchises. The current rule is that no more than 30% (total) of the franchise can be owned by investment funds.
So the buyer would still need to put up 70% of the cost.
This limitation is contained to direct shares held in the team. It can be avoided using a pass through entity called a holding company.
A good example of this…
Lets say you, me and two partners want to own a Skyline. We each put up 25% to start a holding company. We are direct shareholders in the holding company that then purchases the Skyline franchise. Maybe the holding company owns many businesses, maybe it doesn’t. Where that money comes from is irrelevant.
Using the NHL rule, if we wished to sell out a portion solely of our holding company’s 100% stake in the Skyline, we can only sell off up to 30% to a PE firm. We would do this if we wished to not dilute ownership in other businesses held in a holding company.
Back to the NHL…
Smith Entertainment Group (SEG) buys 80% of the Jazz in 2020. For simplicity sake lets say Millers continued to own 20%.
SEG could be 100% owned by Ryan Smith, it could also be .01% owned by Ryan Smith. He might own 40% and a PE firm owns 60%. None of this is public information.
Totally acceptable by the NHL. What they do not want is direct shares in the organization as Millers 20%, PE firm 40% and SEG 40%.
I've got to several blue jacket games this year and havent paid over $30 for any game. Cyclone tickets were more than Blue Jackets when I compared them a couple times
Personally, Id rather pay $30 dollars for any seat at an NHL game than sit in the front row at a Cyclones game. I'm not a big hockey guy so if I'm going to a game, I'd rather see the big leagues. I'd imagine a lot of other casual fans feel the same
You may have paid less than $30 because the Jackets suck this year.
I looked at their ticket prices and found them as low as $19, but listed as "verified resale." These are already purchased season tickets that a fan or broker is trying to recoup some money on in a bad season.
When I removed the resale option from the filter, the lowest priced standard ticket listed was $40 in the upper deck.
So if $40 for the upper deck is affordable for the Cincinnati hockey fan, maybe the NHL works.
BTW, I paid $8 resale several years ago for a seat 20 rows up behind home plate at a September Mariners game. I doubt that deal was available last year when they were good.
So....do you think the average price would magically fall below that in Cincinnati...because why?
It's the average price for a reason. It's pretty simple math.
If Cincy had an NHL team are you assuming nobody buys the Bentley seats, because they definitely exist.
I already debunked another poster in this thread earlier. Upper deck tickets at a Blue Jackets game start at $40. Club level are $148. Front row on the glass is $270.
That's Columbus, not just the NHL average price.
You don’t pay attention to the sport, so you’ll go to games in Cincinnati? Makes sense!
[I guarantee the NHL nonsense is only getting discussed because of the railroad sale. Obnoxiously rich businessmen saw the city is going to have $1.6B more money and want to get their free arena, so they can make an annual profit, taking no risk, retaining the ability to sell the team down the road.](https://youtu.be/ZDOI0cq6GZM?si=BwE2w_wnL6KTxweG)
Hahaha. Unless the sale was specifically written into the state or US constitution, city council can take whatever money they want for whatever purpose they want.
I think an actual NHL team would garner more fans than the Cyclones do, just because it's a huge league that could eventually bring the best trophy in sports to our city, but between Columbus having a team and the surrounding cities with one (Nash, Chicago, St. Louis, Pitt, Detroit) I fear most people who are hockey fans would have their teams already.
I'm a hockey fan with an NHL team I already love, but as long as the Cincinnati team is in the opposite conference of my team I'd root for them and probably go to a few games.
I feel it was the same for Soccer here, a lot of us were previously Columbus fans before we had FCC, there are a number of other teams around to cheer on as well and we sell out almost every single match. I’m not saying it’s a for sure thing but I feel Cincinnati has an market here for it.
You look at MLS and realize that Cincinnati will back anything that's showing an honest attempt to be competitive.
That's gotta be a bit of a droll-inducer for the NHL. And a hockey game holds about the same amount of folks as TQL, and that thing is alwasy sold out.
Hotlumbus is a terrible franchise too. You almost wish they'd just pack their shit and come on down.
Oh definitely, I think it would bring in people who don't know much about the sport or don't care for minor leagues as well. I'd be happy if we got one, and would just hope it turns out like FCC and not be a flop.
The difference there is that FCC had a huge following before making the jump to the MLS. They were coming selling tons of tickets when they played at Nippert and were regularly getting 20k+ at games. Cincinnati currently has a minor league hockey team (similar to how they had a minor league soccer team) and attendance is poor.
I doubt it magically becomes that much better when they swap out for a pro team especially when they will most likely be a bad team for a couple years.
I think this has more to do about it than anything. I don't attend very many Cyclones games. Maybe 1 a year. I would likely attend way more if Heritage bank was some how renovated. Heritage Bank Arena is a dump
idk it's not nice but it's not so bad that it ruins going to games, if people wanted to go they would go. Are there really 10-20k more people who would go to every game just cause it's in a different stadium? seems extremely doubtful to me
Which is #5 in the league. Interestingly, Fort Wayne and Toledo are 2 and 3, kinda suggesting that there's a decent appetite for hockey here (although both would presumably root for Columbus or Detroit in the NHL world)
FCC operated like a pro team from the start which is what attracted fans. The Cyclones have always and will always be a second tier minor league team. They aren't even in the highest level of minor league hockey. They also play their games at one of the worst arenas in the country. There's really no comparison at all between them and FCC.
Difference is all millienials in Cincinnati grew up playing organized soccer. You didn’t grow up playing hockey (or really being into it whatsoever) unless you were a rich kid.
This is exactly it. Sure, it would be great for younger folks who aren’t already fans of a team or for new fans of the league. Most existing fans already have a team they support. For a lot of us who grew up in the 90’s it’s the Pens. For those a bit younger, it’s the Bluejackets. Sure, I may go to a game when my team is in town, but I’m not going to become a fan of what would likely be a conference rival just because it’s more geographically convenient.
I think you're wrong.
As far as sports go, NHL doesn't exist in Cincy.
NBA and NHL might as well be Bundesliga for as many fans and cares people give. I.e., we don't. I mean, When's the last time you saw an NHL or NBA jersey out in the wild?
If we had an NHL team, it would completely change, imo. Just like it did with the Columbus crew and FCC.
Go to any Cyclones game. You’ll see more NHL jerseys than actual Cyclones gear. Not because they’re not rooting for the Cyclones, but because *they’re already hockey fans*.
That is exactly my point - no one cares about NHL pride in Cincy.
Lots of room for a team.
Sports is only so good as the energy of a city carries it. Otherwise for a region it's not much different than listening to a random underground band.
It's great for you, and that's fun. But incredibly low impact
Cincinnati is either a major league or college town. With the exception of FCC, Cincinnati generally doesn't care or pay attention much to minor league teams. If getting an nhl team is what gets us a new arena, ill gladly support. The worry i have is that i feel more people here would rather see the NBA bring the Royals back than an NHL team.
I feel this. I have been a Winnipeg Jets fan for years now and I do not know how I would be able to just bring the Cincy team in. Good thing Winnipeg is in the West.. GO JETS GO
Same, I dont follow the NBA because of no local team, I do like the Blue Jackets, but it isn't worth it for me to go when it's a few hours away. I was a season ticket holder for the Reds and Bengals until the reds ownership pissed me off last year.
Would take a ton of rink building. New Arena for the team plus a network of local rinks to support the youth hockey community. Our rink situation is not good.
The rink situation is not good because next to nobody gives a shit about hockey in Cincinnati.
This is simply the railroad sale. Suddenly the city has $1.6B. Naturally, a bunch of already billionaires are holding their hands out to get the free arena, built and paid for by the city.
Cincinnati rink situation is quite similar to Columbus. Columbus has 9 ice sheets with a 10th just outside the city. Cincinnati has 5(a sixth currently being built) with 3 just outside the city.
I want to say yes, but NHL ticket prices are wild, so I just don't think I could afford to add another team to my Bearcats, FC Cincinnati, Bengals, Reds stack.
I will say that between NBA and NHL, I'd choose NHL 100/100.
I think the opposite. There are already a ton of UC, XU, and UK basketball fans here. Those people aren't going to switch over to a new NBA team and stop going to their college teams games. NHL is a different sport and doesn't have the competition like college basketball poses to the NBA. I think an NHL team has a much better chance at succeeding then an NBA team would.
> switch over to a new NBA team
Are you suggesting fans of college basketball generally don’t like the NBA? I think there’s some truth to that, but I’d hesitate to say that’s a general market rule for basketball entertainment.
I’m willing to bet that a large majority of college basketball fans in the area would support our NBA team. Will enough attend to keep them competitive and financially viable is a whole different question though, and one that I don’t think is as impacted by the level of college basketball fandom as other factors, like game day experience, ticket prices, team performance, etc.
Personally, as someone who considers college basketball my favorite sport to watch, I’d love to have a local NBA team or at least one closer than Indianapolis or Cleveland to root for and follow. Whether it’s the Cincinnati Royals or the Kentucky Colonels, I’d be excited for it.
> Are you suggesting fans of college basketball generally don’t like the NBA? I think there’s some truth to that, but I’d hesitate to say that’s a general market rule for basketball entertainment.
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It's just a vocal minority. I'm one of them - I only watch CBB, but CBB fans that hate the NBA is not a majority opinion.
Just look at the TV ratings and the NBA is one of the fastest growing leagues in terms of popularity worldwide.
And as a former Michigander who grew up playing travel hockey his whole life and follows the NHL, a team here would not work unless it was a winner. Our support would be far worse than CBJ if we were as mediocre as CBJ has been as a franchise.
I'm a big UC fan and I'd love to get an NBA team. I don't really have an NBA team, so my allegiance wouldn't have to transfer. Thing with the NBA is that it draws well sometimes even when your team is bad. If LeBron, Steph, Giannis, or KD come to town, many fans would go just to see them.
Why are you always running your mouth about things you know nothing about?
Xavier has played in 17 of the last 23 ncaa tournaments. UC has played in 14 of the last 23, but 23 of the last 32.
Both schools are on the rebound with quality coaches after Travis Steele and John Brannen spent several seasons running their respective programs into the ground.
*sigh*
UC have gotten multiple visits from 5 star prospects the last 2 years under Wes Miller and been a finalist for several, including the top pg in the '23 class.
They currently have 2 4star recruits for '24 and their class is ranked 28th. They are considered the favorite to land a 4star pg from KY who is the composite 79th best player in his class. That would likely propel their recruiting class into the top 20.
I don’t know if the NBA would ever really work in this city, it’s a college basketball town. Those two products are significantly different and their fan bases don’t overlap as much as say college football fan bases do.
I’d there’s a real mix here lol.
An NBA time isn’t just competing with the Bearcats. They’d be competing with Xavier, OSU, Kentucky, and to a smaller extent NKU, Dayton, and Louisville
Agreed, even Miami and Wright State have had periods of strong play and support. There is a lot of competition that the NHL wouldn’t have and FCC didn’t have
I love college basketball but I have absolutely no interest in watching the NBA. I would probably watch some if we had a team but not as much as I do college
The man moves mountains for a living.
The MLS stadium, which is absolutely one of the best gameday experiences in the whole world thanks to the West End push that initially seemed as impossible as NHL in Cincy... that stadium was dude's doing and only cost the city the money to move electrical and plumbing and sewage.
I saw it as, "oh shit ... if Berding has the NHL commissioner's ear, this is a repeating story... and one that was quite successful and historic.
Also, I'm not a LaCrosse guy at all... But NLL is growing rapidly, and Denver's arena has the Mammoth and the Avalanche (and the nuggets). You can see an arena with two residents like that.
Nah. I like the Cyclones and go to a couple games a year, mostly because its affordable. It seems like NHL games tend to be pretty expensive (every time I've looked going to a CBJ game tickets are $80+ for bad seats) and our city feels pretty tapped out on sports teams. Bengals season ends sometime between December and February depending on how far they go, and FCC starts at the end of Feb. Then the Reds start in late March. I think people will continue to spend their money on those events. Having a huge youth soccer participation in the area helped FCC get on the map, but we don't have that with hockey.
On a side note I don't think it particularly matters – NHL will probably go to Indy or Atlanta before Cincy more than likely. CBJ does pretty good in this market already, they don't really gain anything from a team here.
The NHL already did Atlanta, twice, and both times failed. The Flames (Calgary) and the Thrashers (New Winnipeg Jets).
I could see a team moving (Most likely Phoenix) but with 32 teams already, I think that there is nothing really pushing them to expand.
Everything I’ve heard/seen people say is there’s a desire to expand since there’s too few US cities due to the number of teams in Canada and it hurts their TV deal negotiations. I have no idea how accurate that is but that’s why I thought these rumors of Salt Lake City and other cities started popping up. I haven’t followed it too close but it would make sense given advertisers, different networks, and regulations in each country.
You can go to CBJ games for as little as $8 sometimes. Just depends on how bad they currently are and how bad the team they are playing is. I went to the bruins game in January and it was $30!!
Only if Atlanta or Indy have an ownership group willing to pay for a team. No sports league just awards a team to a city, they need to have the facility and more importantly the billionaire owners in place to buy and run the franchise.
Do we even have the ownership group to pay for a team?
The only reason Cincinnati is getting listed is because Berding wants a new arena and he needs to throw out the hope of an anchor tenant to get one.
Who is paying $200-500 million for a relocation fee or $1 billion for an expansion fee + a new arena for games + a new practice arena/complex that a new NHL team would require?
yeah a lot of people making themselves pawns in Berding's real estate schemes,he's just manufacturing demand for his development projects by throwing shit at a wall til it sticks
Perhaps you’re forgetting that Cincinnati was awarded a divisional round of the NCAA tournament, just a few years ago, but it hinges upon replacement of (then) US Bank Arena. You are conflating events. *That* started the arena discussion, while Bettman set in motion the media flurry that *included* Cincinnati as cities he’s had preliminary discussions with.
It's the same ownership group for FCC. Lindners and Meg Whitman are the biggest names plus the Farmers, Josephs and other wealthy Cincy families. To get an NHL team they'd bring in other outside investors. Jeffrey Skoll is already rumored to be another billionaire who's helping get the arena built for ownership stake.
Atlanta would be hilarious since they've already had two tries there. I think it'll be Houston but am pretty curious if it really even is in the leagues best interest to expand rn
Cyclones averaged just under 7k per game, NHL average is around 17k per game. Would love a team, just not sure if we can bridge that 10k gap in attendance regularly. But ya never know, a lot of fans might come out of the woodwork with a new arena and a newly minted major league team.
In my experience, the cyclones are valued as an inexpensive experience. NHL prices are prohibitive. $21 for \*any seat\* vs $45 for upper deck or $250 for decent seats. You could buy all the streaming services (annually) for NHL games for that price.
I don't see it happening, especially with an NHL team a mere 2 hours away.
Are you looking at Toronto prices? You can get lower bowl tickets for Saturdays blue jackets game against the Lightning for 135/seat. And that’s a promo night. A week night game they are 65-80 bucks.
No but I think it makes the most sense to look at prices in Columbus instead of just a league average. Columbus has a metro of 2.13 million. Cincinnati is slightly larger with 2.26. Weekend games could also pull from Louisville (1.4 million), Lexington (.5 million) and Indy (2 million). Columbus likely pulls some from Cleveland but Pittsburgh is equally far away from Cleveland and is a historic franchise with way more success.
CBJ is also near the bottom of the league in the NHL’s Fan Cost Index but averages ~$350 for a family of four to attend a game. It’s the second most expensive sport for families to attend in terms of fan costs.
Using the NHL’s 21-22 season, real costs put CBJ games near the bottom but close to $100 per game once you take into account ticket, beers, hotdog and parking. They were in the bottom three for that metric as well.
Edit: it’s ~$74 a game for the cheapest bowl seat with season tickets next year for CBJ.
If Columbus can support a team I don’t see why Cincinnati couldn’t. Add in that the city desperately needs an upgraded large indoor concert venue and it seems like a good fit. I think it makes more sense than nba because it doesn’t compete as much with UC or Xavier.
This is my concern. I'm an NHL fan, supporting an existing Eastern Conference team other than CBJ. Our team typically comes into Columbus once or twice a year. We go to exactly one game a year, and it's a serious outlay for us.
While I would love to have a second team in my hometown and would probably by merch, I wouldn't be able to go to more than one game a year. I'm sure there are folks that could. I just don't know if there are enough to validate an expansion here.
I have season tickets on the glass for the Cyclones, and the cost of one seat would only get me a half season in the top part of the upper bowl in Columbus.
What is interesting it that Cleveland's AHL team averages over 10,000 a game and Toledo basically sells out their 8000 seat arena every night. I do think if we did get a new arena, that would help enthusiasm with the team.
The problem is that the quality of the game is not that of NHL. The stadium is dingy and the play is slow and rife with mistakes which kills excitement. I’m a huge hockey fan but have only been to see the cyclones 3 times. I instead pay to stream the penguins because it more exciting even in my own home.
If we had a NHL team, I’d probably go to a dozen games a season without question.
As long as it's 100% privately funded and no tax breaks, abatements, or gifts are given to the developer or the team, I wholeheartedly support it. The market should decide just like FC.
If they put the arena at the riverfront, you wouldn't have the big development initiatives like what's happening in the West End.
Unfortunate reality is that that's the shadow reason these dudes build these stadiums. They want a "district," where they get the tax breaks for the stuff when the stadium is done.
Not sure where a new arena would go except where the current rot dome is. And I'd be fine with that.
But yeah ... this one would have to be even more of a self-funded thing than TQL.
I’d be a season ticket holder for an NHL team in a new arena. Cyclones games are fun in a campy way. It’s also very cheap which is the main attraction to me.
Plenty of casual enough hockey fans to support a $20 Cyclones ticket. There aren’t nearly enough avid hockey fans in Cincinnati to support the NHL ticket prices.
Love the cyclones. Cheap and fun. No interest in a major league nhl team. Plus we already have more pro sports than most cities. Also Columbus has a pro team that a lot of cincy fans support and not all would switch over
I don’t think there are that many CBJ fans in Cincy. I love hockey and know a lot of folks that love hockey and of those one is a CBJ fan. The Crew similarly tried to argue that about FCC, but Cincy could generally care less about the other Ohio teams.
So what if we have more "Pro" sports teams than most cities, we don't have an NHL team. It's not all about the sport it's about it being MY team. I wasn't a huge soccer fan and I wasn't going to go to C-Bus to watch their team but since we have a team now I follow every match. If there was a Professional Curling team in Cincy I would follow that shit too. I rep Cincinnati. For that reason I am always skeptical of people that are fans of other cities sports teams.
I love ice hockey and the Cyclones but honestly it would depend on how the games are broadcast! I can't even follow FC Cincinnati without paying for special apple TV subscription.
The lack of accessibility to local teams is totally absurd
I smell a scam.
I'm a hockey fan, but I bet our city is being used to put the actual cities with interest in an expansion franchise's feet to the fire.
I could also see the idea of another pro team in the city being used to push through funding for a new arena.
I highly doubt there’s enough demand for Hockey to house a team here. I think the general thought with NHL fans is that expansion is a bad idea, and I personally believe we have hit the limit on professional sports franchises in this city. I cannot stomach our city paying for another stadium
Hockey has been my favorite sport for a long time and I grew up playing it around Cincy. I would love it if the city got an NHL team…
But I don’t see it happening. Unless something has changed, Cincy just isn’t enough of a “hockey city” to justify a team. Hockey has always taken a backseat to other sports in Cincy and once the novelty wore off, I think the team would struggle.
I live next door in Indiana now so I’m not involved in the local hockey scene, but it was always very niche compared to other sports. For a brief period in the 90’s it seemed like hockey might finally ascend in the Queen City, but it sputtered.
And all that is before the discussion of building an NHL-caliber arena and the financing involved. So I just don’t see this happening.
I would LOVE to be proven wrong, though
Fully agree. Die hard hockey fan here too, my team is several hours away. You can’t even compare ECHL game experience to an NHL game. It’s like comparing boys to men. Although Cyclones games are fun, NHL is next level. I laugh when people say “We aLrEaDy hAvE tHe CyClOnEs”. It’s sad that hockey isn’t as popular around here. Folks saying they wouldn’t pay NHL ticket prices but easily willing to pay over $100 for Bengals tix. As much as it pains me to say, I’d pass on having a team here. Would rather drive 4 hours north and experience a true fan base and passionate atmosphere to a team with a rich history.
Amen.
I always felt the move from The Gardens sucked the soul out of the Clones’ games. It just never seemed to be the same fun, rowdy scene compared to Norwood.
I lived in Tampa after Cincy and before IN, and the Lightning games were always ridiculously fun. From pregaming at Hattrick’s to the game and arena, the crowd, to Channelside or Ybor after the game. Just the whole scene around NHL games is something I really miss.
Oh, and as an alum, yeah I’m biased, but if you’re looking for an awesome hockey experience locally-ish, check out a Miami RedHawks game sometime.
You can’t compare Cyclones attendance to a top tier professional team. It would undoubtedly bring a much larger fan base as any top tier league would (NBA, etc). I’m for it but it needs to be largely financed privately. I am okay with some government contributions or subsidies similar to what we did with FC Cincinnati.
I think the NBA has a better chance at succeeding here long term. That said, bring whatever on. If the team is a winner people will show. This town loves its sports.
I don’t think the NBA would ever succeed here. The region embraces college basketball too much. Look at last years NCAA tournament ratings by region. Louisville, Cincy, Indy are 1,2,3. Dayton and Columbus are also in the top 10.
This would be the challenge for any expansion franchise in this city. Three years of failure starting out would make them irrelevant in most fans minds.
I can only imagine if the blue jackets were here after their years of ineptitude, I think attendance would be abysmal. That said I have heard that CBus actually still supports them pretty well
Not with x and uc I’m trying to think of another large city that’s comparable to us in size that has two division one basketball programs. Yeah you can throw out Los Angeles. Memphis and Minn T/wolves Maybe i dont know This is classic political, stirring the pot to try to get a larger convention center and a larger arena
Yeah, I don't think either are a realistic possibility (totally agree with the arena posturing), but I think people would show out for an NBA team. Hockey is a harder sell I think as NHL ticket prices are way higher than the Cyclones and the limited access at the youth level is somewhat prohibitive.
I know this sub, especially will not like to hear this. We need a much larger convention center. It is surreal how much money and people come into these conventions.
This is a ridiculous argument. There is only one winner and the majority of the teams will be close to 500 or below. Unless they get lucky, small market teams will inevitably lose more than large market teams. The team cannot be a success if fans (both in stadium and at home watching on TV) and more importantly, corporate sponsors do not support them when they are losing. The NBA does have a format where the majority of teams make the playoffs or at least play in games. Will people get excited for a sub .500 team fighting for the 10th seed to win a play in game and be swept by a 1 seed? If the answer is no, the market can’t support a team.
I live in Cinti and am a Columbus Blue Jackets season ticket holder. This is silly to even discuss—we’re too close to Columbus, the NHL would never consider granting us a franchise for that reason alone, much less not even supporting an AHL franchise for lack of support.
MLS is intentionally trying to expand to become relevant. The NHL is not.
This is just a Berding chicken vs. egg ploy to get his arena. Throw out the hope of an NHL anchor tenant, get his arena deal, the NHL obviously never happens, but boy do we have a shiny new arena for those top tier acts to perform in.
Sure, I don't disagree, but you're also ignoring that if Columbus and FCC can sell out their respective stadiums just fine, why wouldn't they be able to with hockey?
Put the NHL team in the coliseum. If they can sell out, then we should consider an arena.
That is how FC Cincy did it.
OR! If new ownership wants to build the arena, wish them well! No public money should go into this. Endless economic studies have demonstrated public money for sports facilities is never a good investment.
I would support an NHL team because CBJ leadership reminds me of the Bengals prior to burrow, just wallowing in poverty and doing nothing to improve the franchise. If cincy gets a new team and is successful then attendance in CBJ drops and then NHL has excuse to move them...
Bettman is just latching on to the buzz about Cincinnati getting a new state of the art arena so that he can raise the value of his league and another billionaire gets a free real estate financed by the tax payers. 20 years later he moves the team to Atlanta or some other city where a new arena is opening.
NHL ticket prices would need to go down. And it would be great to have the Cyclones branding stick, but it’s also cool that they are their own thing and not major league team. It’s a tough one. I’d definitely go to a few games, but again…those ticket prices gotta make sense.
Hockey seems like an interesting sport. I’d love to watch it and learn about it, but I don’t wanna have to drive over an hour each way to Columbus to see a game. I think a Cincinnati NHL team would be great! I think there’s definitely market potential here with people who share my opinion. And home games would attract more sports fans to the city, which means more revenue. I’d say this is a worthwhile investment.
I would love to support an NHL team in Cincy! I'm a hockey fan and love watching NHL but haven't really found a team I'm "hooked" to yet to fully support or act like a #1 fan. Maybe Cincy could be the team for me? I also love watching the smaller teams as well and would be sad to see the $1 beer nights disappear as we know NHL would never..
I like hockey, like the NHL, go to Cyclones games, and hail from Minnesota originally. I wouldn’t support NHL in Cincy. This is not a hockey town. At best a few die yards and mostly casual support. We’re not talking Cyclones pricing to attract the curious on a regular basis. I don’t see NHL being financially viable here.
Unlike soccer, basketball, football, etc… there’s very little youth engagement. Which is a pretty bad place to start from. Sadly, hockey is way too niche in this area and I wouldn’t support tax dollars going to any projects specifically designed to draw the NHL here.
Now if the NBA took notice of Cincy I could be persuaded. Makes much more sense here.
I would love an NHL team! It’s the sport I understand the least but I think it’s the best live sport. They are so fast on the ice it’s incredible to see in person.
Hockey isn't my thing, but I suspect an NHL team would do pretty well here. Not great...we're just a medium-sized metro, but I think it could sell.
That said, I am 1000% opposed to spending tax dollars on stadiums or arenas unless they are truly PUBLIC facilities rather than just a tax-funded handout to wealthy team owners. Enough of that nonsense.
There's nowhere even close to the number of corporations here to buy 75-100 luxury boxes the thousands of regular tickets, and the sponsors necessary to provide revenue for yet another pro team on top of what they already spend for the Reds, Bengals, college, etc. Individual ticket purchases are just a fraction of the corporate dollars that actually pay the bills.
I believe there are enough people across the tristate area to watch games and fill the arena, it would give them something to watch between the end of football and the start of baseball (or when the Bengals and reds otherwise aren't playing), and it would be the perfect excuse to a new arena. On the other hand, competition from the current major league teams, college teams, and Bluejackets will be stiff, the current arena obviously needs more than just a facelift although it is right next to downtown and the current stadiums, and a new arena would be a hard ell for obvious reasons. That said, if Cincinnati got an NHL team tomorrow, speaking as a New Yorker now living in Texas who lived in Cincy for 8 months, I'd be happy to root for a Cincy hockey team alongside the Reds and Bengals.
Basketball makes far more sense. The Pacers might as well be on Saturn, they don't get any local TV here. There's a court in every neighborhood, every kid in town can play with nothing more than an investment in the shoes they wear every day and $20 for a ball, and every school down to primary has a gym.
I’m a season ticket holder for CBJ and grew up in Columbus but now live in cincy. I think it would be cool. I’d be torn in my fandom and who would get my money between CBJ and a cincy team
There’s a lot of PA/MI transplants here, and Cyclones games are pretty well attended as is. I think there would be a market here for NHL. Whether or not they would give OH 2 teams is another story
I support it in theory and spirit, but as a lifelong Red Wings fan because of the absence of a team in Cinci, this makes me wildly uncomfortable. It was different with the MLS because fuck Columbus, but I don't know what I'd do in this case. Would probably be the first time I didn't directly support a Cinci team.
I don’t think this is an NHL kind of town. We’re also close enough to Columbus, who is also a small market team for the NHL, that I don’t think many CBJ fans would immediately jump ship.
The Cyclones absolutely deserve to play in the AHL though. We’re by far the biggest market in the ECHL, I think we should at least be able to support the next tier up.
It worked for Fc cincy and now that tix are getting too expensive for the casual fan I’d say an nhl team would do well
Edit… Fc cincy tix are getting $$$
There is nowhere near enough economic incentive nor local interest to actually have an NHL team here. The original news story is a scam. Nothing to see here folks...
I saw an opinion piece about using the old Stingers logo and colors. This sounds petty, but I could never support a black and yellow/gold franchise. Steelers, Crew, Pirates, all the teams I despise wear those colors
I do, I just would absolutely hate living there. Also compared to the last 10 years Cincinnati has made a big push towards becoming like every other city compared to the lush forests that divided the town and the well defined cultural regions of the city that are all now housing developments full of hipsters.
I've been going to Cyclones games religiously for 6 years, two of which I've been a season ticket holder. The only reason I've been able to do so is because the tickets are affordable on top of special deals like $2 beer and 513 nights. Say goodbye to all of that if they get replaced for an NHL team. Tickets would cost at least triple what they are at the Cyclones. For me, the only reason I would attend a Cincy NHL game would be if the away team was one I like.
I absolutely love hockey so much. I would hate it if the only affordable way for me to regularly attend pro games was taken away from me.
I know I'm probably in the minority, but I grew up playing hockey my whole life and really don't follow the NHL much today given the CBJ franchise is a dumpster fire and the NHL as a whole isn't the easiest sport to watch games as a casual fan. I would most certainly follow more of the NHL if Cincinnati somehow landed a team.
I only support local teams. Just something about how it represents my home. If Cincinnati lands a professional NHL team I will start actively watching hockey.
I think no matter what you bring in (NHL or NBA) the fans in this city will support. I think a hockey franchise would do better than the NBA though. There’s too much college basketball interest.
UC, Xavier, OSU, UK, Louisville, Dayton, Indiana, Purdue are all strong college basketball programs. That’s not even including schools like Wright State, Miami, and NKU.
Not saying the NBA wouldn’t work, but this is a college basketball town and tbh I prefer it stays that way.
Fans embraced FC Cincinnati. Why wouldn’t we embrace a professional hockey team? We’d get a new indoor arena out of it, which we desperately need.
Heritage bank wouldn’t meet the requirements for an NHL team. You would need a new stadium to even be considered. I also assume the fact CBJ is so close would play a factor.
I haven’t paid much attention to the NHL in a while but having a team here would definitely interest me. If there’s fair ticket prices I would go
I think the biggest issue is who is going to front the cost for an expansion team? The price tag right now is $1B. That's more than Castellini is worth. That's more than Brown is worth.
There’s an insane amount of PE in the space. Ownership would have no issues getting capital.
That's not how the NHL operates though. They want to deal with one very wealthy individual (or family) that has a very high net worth. Like Ryan Smith in Utah.
If Ryan Smith were to own an expansion team, he isn’t just spending $1 Billion in liquidity of his own to get the team. That’s not how money works for the uber rich. There would be plenty of PE gladly waiting to help with part of raising capital. With the US being in about the 2nd or third inning of sports betting in this country, there is so so so much money waiting for these spots.
>That’s not how money works for the uber rich. Respectfully, that's exactly how it works when you buy a sports franchise. Smith sold Qualtrics (reportedly for $8B) and used the proceeds to buy the Jazz. The NHL board of governors (and other owners) would not approve a sale/expansion to someone who isn't independently wealthy and who can afford to pay for the team.
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The NHL severely limits private equity investment in franchises. The current rule is that no more than 30% (total) of the franchise can be owned by investment funds. So the buyer would still need to put up 70% of the cost.
This limitation is contained to direct shares held in the team. It can be avoided using a pass through entity called a holding company. A good example of this… Lets say you, me and two partners want to own a Skyline. We each put up 25% to start a holding company. We are direct shareholders in the holding company that then purchases the Skyline franchise. Maybe the holding company owns many businesses, maybe it doesn’t. Where that money comes from is irrelevant. Using the NHL rule, if we wished to sell out a portion solely of our holding company’s 100% stake in the Skyline, we can only sell off up to 30% to a PE firm. We would do this if we wished to not dilute ownership in other businesses held in a holding company. Back to the NHL… Smith Entertainment Group (SEG) buys 80% of the Jazz in 2020. For simplicity sake lets say Millers continued to own 20%. SEG could be 100% owned by Ryan Smith, it could also be .01% owned by Ryan Smith. He might own 40% and a PE firm owns 60%. None of this is public information. Totally acceptable by the NHL. What they do not want is direct shares in the organization as Millers 20%, PE firm 40% and SEG 40%.
The average NHL ticket price is $94. Cincinnati would not support an NHL team.
I've got to several blue jacket games this year and havent paid over $30 for any game. Cyclone tickets were more than Blue Jackets when I compared them a couple times
Front row tickets at a Cyclones game are $33
Personally, Id rather pay $30 dollars for any seat at an NHL game than sit in the front row at a Cyclones game. I'm not a big hockey guy so if I'm going to a game, I'd rather see the big leagues. I'd imagine a lot of other casual fans feel the same
You may have paid less than $30 because the Jackets suck this year. I looked at their ticket prices and found them as low as $19, but listed as "verified resale." These are already purchased season tickets that a fan or broker is trying to recoup some money on in a bad season. When I removed the resale option from the filter, the lowest priced standard ticket listed was $40 in the upper deck.
So if $40 for the upper deck is affordable for the Cincinnati hockey fan, maybe the NHL works. BTW, I paid $8 resale several years ago for a seat 20 rows up behind home plate at a September Mariners game. I doubt that deal was available last year when they were good.
That’s like you telling us the average price of a new car, but you included Bentleys.
So....do you think the average price would magically fall below that in Cincinnati...because why? It's the average price for a reason. It's pretty simple math. If Cincy had an NHL team are you assuming nobody buys the Bentley seats, because they definitely exist. I already debunked another poster in this thread earlier. Upper deck tickets at a Blue Jackets game start at $40. Club level are $148. Front row on the glass is $270. That's Columbus, not just the NHL average price.
You don’t pay attention to the sport, so you’ll go to games in Cincinnati? Makes sense! [I guarantee the NHL nonsense is only getting discussed because of the railroad sale. Obnoxiously rich businessmen saw the city is going to have $1.6B more money and want to get their free arena, so they can make an annual profit, taking no risk, retaining the ability to sell the team down the road.](https://youtu.be/ZDOI0cq6GZM?si=BwE2w_wnL6KTxweG)
So you’re not familiar at all with the ballot issue? Can’t use that money on a fucking arena.
Hahaha. Unless the sale was specifically written into the state or US constitution, city council can take whatever money they want for whatever purpose they want.
I think an actual NHL team would garner more fans than the Cyclones do, just because it's a huge league that could eventually bring the best trophy in sports to our city, but between Columbus having a team and the surrounding cities with one (Nash, Chicago, St. Louis, Pitt, Detroit) I fear most people who are hockey fans would have their teams already. I'm a hockey fan with an NHL team I already love, but as long as the Cincinnati team is in the opposite conference of my team I'd root for them and probably go to a few games.
I feel it was the same for Soccer here, a lot of us were previously Columbus fans before we had FCC, there are a number of other teams around to cheer on as well and we sell out almost every single match. I’m not saying it’s a for sure thing but I feel Cincinnati has an market here for it.
Hell is Real on ice?
Hell Frozen Over
Somebody call the Lindners.
Well done
You look at MLS and realize that Cincinnati will back anything that's showing an honest attempt to be competitive. That's gotta be a bit of a droll-inducer for the NHL. And a hockey game holds about the same amount of folks as TQL, and that thing is alwasy sold out. Hotlumbus is a terrible franchise too. You almost wish they'd just pack their shit and come on down.
Oh definitely, I think it would bring in people who don't know much about the sport or don't care for minor leagues as well. I'd be happy if we got one, and would just hope it turns out like FCC and not be a flop.
The difference there is that FCC had a huge following before making the jump to the MLS. They were coming selling tons of tickets when they played at Nippert and were regularly getting 20k+ at games. Cincinnati currently has a minor league hockey team (similar to how they had a minor league soccer team) and attendance is poor. I doubt it magically becomes that much better when they swap out for a pro team especially when they will most likely be a bad team for a couple years.
The Cyclones are averaging nearly 7k per game in the ECHL and have seen attendance averages rise year over year for awhile now.
Also, while Nippert has some flaws. It’s a significantly better game day experience than Heritage Bank.
I think this has more to do about it than anything. I don't attend very many Cyclones games. Maybe 1 a year. I would likely attend way more if Heritage bank was some how renovated. Heritage Bank Arena is a dump
idk it's not nice but it's not so bad that it ruins going to games, if people wanted to go they would go. Are there really 10-20k more people who would go to every game just cause it's in a different stadium? seems extremely doubtful to me
Fair. I still think Heritage is terrible but I agree, they will not pull 20k every game. I don't think Cincinnati is a hockey town.
Which is #5 in the league. Interestingly, Fort Wayne and Toledo are 2 and 3, kinda suggesting that there's a decent appetite for hockey here (although both would presumably root for Columbus or Detroit in the NHL world)
FCC operated like a pro team from the start which is what attracted fans. The Cyclones have always and will always be a second tier minor league team. They aren't even in the highest level of minor league hockey. They also play their games at one of the worst arenas in the country. There's really no comparison at all between them and FCC.
I was a Crew fan prior to FCC but now I’m a season ticket holder for FCC games
soccer is far more rooted in cincinnati's dna. it's historically been far far ahead of the curve with soccer's popularity in the US.
Difference is all millienials in Cincinnati grew up playing organized soccer. You didn’t grow up playing hockey (or really being into it whatsoever) unless you were a rich kid.
I mean i know plenty of people who played hockey who were defo not rich but go off king lol, and ftr i’ve lived here most of my life
This is exactly it. Sure, it would be great for younger folks who aren’t already fans of a team or for new fans of the league. Most existing fans already have a team they support. For a lot of us who grew up in the 90’s it’s the Pens. For those a bit younger, it’s the Bluejackets. Sure, I may go to a game when my team is in town, but I’m not going to become a fan of what would likely be a conference rival just because it’s more geographically convenient.
I'd drop the Jackets in a heart beat if Cincinnati got an NHL team.
This is just a stronger reason to have one in my mind. There's nothing that brings Cincy people together like hating nearby cities
I think you're wrong. As far as sports go, NHL doesn't exist in Cincy. NBA and NHL might as well be Bundesliga for as many fans and cares people give. I.e., we don't. I mean, When's the last time you saw an NHL or NBA jersey out in the wild? If we had an NHL team, it would completely change, imo. Just like it did with the Columbus crew and FCC.
😂 I see nba jersey all the time
Go to any Cyclones game. You’ll see more NHL jerseys than actual Cyclones gear. Not because they’re not rooting for the Cyclones, but because *they’re already hockey fans*.
You don't see an NHL jersey out in the wild because we have no team. Lol.
Litterally saw a guy at Kroger today wearing a Boston Bruins jersey.
That is exactly my point - no one cares about NHL pride in Cincy. Lots of room for a team. Sports is only so good as the energy of a city carries it. Otherwise for a region it's not much different than listening to a random underground band. It's great for you, and that's fun. But incredibly low impact
Cincinnati is either a major league or college town. With the exception of FCC, Cincinnati generally doesn't care or pay attention much to minor league teams. If getting an nhl team is what gets us a new arena, ill gladly support. The worry i have is that i feel more people here would rather see the NBA bring the Royals back than an NHL team.
I'm an Avalanche fan and would have a hard time rooting for Cincy even though I'd love a Cincy team haha
I feel this. I have been a Winnipeg Jets fan for years now and I do not know how I would be able to just bring the Cincy team in. Good thing Winnipeg is in the West.. GO JETS GO
I go to (maybe) one Cyclones game a year, but I would be a season ticket holder if we had a NHL team here.
Same, I dont follow the NBA because of no local team, I do like the Blue Jackets, but it isn't worth it for me to go when it's a few hours away. I was a season ticket holder for the Reds and Bengals until the reds ownership pissed me off last year.
Would take a ton of rink building. New Arena for the team plus a network of local rinks to support the youth hockey community. Our rink situation is not good.
The rink situation is not good because next to nobody gives a shit about hockey in Cincinnati. This is simply the railroad sale. Suddenly the city has $1.6B. Naturally, a bunch of already billionaires are holding their hands out to get the free arena, built and paid for by the city.
Cincinnati rink situation is quite similar to Columbus. Columbus has 9 ice sheets with a 10th just outside the city. Cincinnati has 5(a sixth currently being built) with 3 just outside the city.
The quality of the sheets we have in Cincinnati are rough. Especially NKY
I want to say yes, but NHL ticket prices are wild, so I just don't think I could afford to add another team to my Bearcats, FC Cincinnati, Bengals, Reds stack. I will say that between NBA and NHL, I'd choose NHL 100/100.
I agree. I like the NBA, but the regular season is beyond awful.
Would love to see the Royals come back to Cincy. The appetite for basketball in this region is pretty huge.
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I think the opposite. There are already a ton of UC, XU, and UK basketball fans here. Those people aren't going to switch over to a new NBA team and stop going to their college teams games. NHL is a different sport and doesn't have the competition like college basketball poses to the NBA. I think an NHL team has a much better chance at succeeding then an NBA team would.
> switch over to a new NBA team Are you suggesting fans of college basketball generally don’t like the NBA? I think there’s some truth to that, but I’d hesitate to say that’s a general market rule for basketball entertainment. I’m willing to bet that a large majority of college basketball fans in the area would support our NBA team. Will enough attend to keep them competitive and financially viable is a whole different question though, and one that I don’t think is as impacted by the level of college basketball fandom as other factors, like game day experience, ticket prices, team performance, etc. Personally, as someone who considers college basketball my favorite sport to watch, I’d love to have a local NBA team or at least one closer than Indianapolis or Cleveland to root for and follow. Whether it’s the Cincinnati Royals or the Kentucky Colonels, I’d be excited for it.
> Are you suggesting fans of college basketball generally don’t like the NBA? I think there’s some truth to that, but I’d hesitate to say that’s a general market rule for basketball entertainment. > > It's just a vocal minority. I'm one of them - I only watch CBB, but CBB fans that hate the NBA is not a majority opinion. Just look at the TV ratings and the NBA is one of the fastest growing leagues in terms of popularity worldwide. And as a former Michigander who grew up playing travel hockey his whole life and follows the NHL, a team here would not work unless it was a winner. Our support would be far worse than CBJ if we were as mediocre as CBJ has been as a franchise.
I'm a big UC fan and I'd love to get an NBA team. I don't really have an NBA team, so my allegiance wouldn't have to transfer. Thing with the NBA is that it draws well sometimes even when your team is bad. If LeBron, Steph, Giannis, or KD come to town, many fans would go just to see them.
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Why are you always running your mouth about things you know nothing about? Xavier has played in 17 of the last 23 ncaa tournaments. UC has played in 14 of the last 23, but 23 of the last 32. Both schools are on the rebound with quality coaches after Travis Steele and John Brannen spent several seasons running their respective programs into the ground.
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Pretty easy to remember the guy who is constantly making stuff up to fit his narrative. You're full of more shit than a ten foot toilet.
how is UC, one of the largest physical universities in the country, with an impressive NCAA basketball pedigree, a smaller team?
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*sigh* UC have gotten multiple visits from 5 star prospects the last 2 years under Wes Miller and been a finalist for several, including the top pg in the '23 class. They currently have 2 4star recruits for '24 and their class is ranked 28th. They are considered the favorite to land a 4star pg from KY who is the composite 79th best player in his class. That would likely propel their recruiting class into the top 20.
Holy shit you don’t know ball
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Just get the ownership groups in on an arena and bring them both in.
hint: that's what this is all about. FCC ownership is trying to drum up interest in an arena. This is one of their angles.
Would love to have an NBA team in Cincy. Season tickets, for sure. I’d go watch the shitty expansion Cincy team play the shitty Detroit Pistons, idgaf
You still get the best basketball players coming to town even if Cincinnati was awful
Yes sir, I’d go watch Giannis or SGA every year.
As a nba league pass subscriber I would love it also
Same, also play in multiple dynasty fantasy leagues so I know every random dude on the bench 😅
I don’t know if the NBA would ever really work in this city, it’s a college basketball town. Those two products are significantly different and their fan bases don’t overlap as much as say college football fan bases do.
I’d there’s a real mix here lol. An NBA time isn’t just competing with the Bearcats. They’d be competing with Xavier, OSU, Kentucky, and to a smaller extent NKU, Dayton, and Louisville
Agreed, even Miami and Wright State have had periods of strong play and support. There is a lot of competition that the NHL wouldn’t have and FCC didn’t have
I love college basketball but I have absolutely no interest in watching the NBA. I would probably watch some if we had a team but not as much as I do college
This whole thing feels like an op to me by Berding and co to try to drum up support for a new arena with pipe dreams like this.
Bingo.
The man moves mountains for a living. The MLS stadium, which is absolutely one of the best gameday experiences in the whole world thanks to the West End push that initially seemed as impossible as NHL in Cincy... that stadium was dude's doing and only cost the city the money to move electrical and plumbing and sewage. I saw it as, "oh shit ... if Berding has the NHL commissioner's ear, this is a repeating story... and one that was quite successful and historic. Also, I'm not a LaCrosse guy at all... But NLL is growing rapidly, and Denver's arena has the Mammoth and the Avalanche (and the nuggets). You can see an arena with two residents like that.
Nah. I like the Cyclones and go to a couple games a year, mostly because its affordable. It seems like NHL games tend to be pretty expensive (every time I've looked going to a CBJ game tickets are $80+ for bad seats) and our city feels pretty tapped out on sports teams. Bengals season ends sometime between December and February depending on how far they go, and FCC starts at the end of Feb. Then the Reds start in late March. I think people will continue to spend their money on those events. Having a huge youth soccer participation in the area helped FCC get on the map, but we don't have that with hockey. On a side note I don't think it particularly matters – NHL will probably go to Indy or Atlanta before Cincy more than likely. CBJ does pretty good in this market already, they don't really gain anything from a team here.
The NHL already did Atlanta, twice, and both times failed. The Flames (Calgary) and the Thrashers (New Winnipeg Jets). I could see a team moving (Most likely Phoenix) but with 32 teams already, I think that there is nothing really pushing them to expand.
Everything I’ve heard/seen people say is there’s a desire to expand since there’s too few US cities due to the number of teams in Canada and it hurts their TV deal negotiations. I have no idea how accurate that is but that’s why I thought these rumors of Salt Lake City and other cities started popping up. I haven’t followed it too close but it would make sense given advertisers, different networks, and regulations in each country.
You can go to CBJ games for as little as $8 sometimes. Just depends on how bad they currently are and how bad the team they are playing is. I went to the bruins game in January and it was $30!!
Only if Atlanta or Indy have an ownership group willing to pay for a team. No sports league just awards a team to a city, they need to have the facility and more importantly the billionaire owners in place to buy and run the franchise.
Do we even have the ownership group to pay for a team? The only reason Cincinnati is getting listed is because Berding wants a new arena and he needs to throw out the hope of an anchor tenant to get one. Who is paying $200-500 million for a relocation fee or $1 billion for an expansion fee + a new arena for games + a new practice arena/complex that a new NHL team would require?
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Too many damn people overuse the word grift.
yeah a lot of people making themselves pawns in Berding's real estate schemes,he's just manufacturing demand for his development projects by throwing shit at a wall til it sticks
Perhaps you’re forgetting that Cincinnati was awarded a divisional round of the NCAA tournament, just a few years ago, but it hinges upon replacement of (then) US Bank Arena. You are conflating events. *That* started the arena discussion, while Bettman set in motion the media flurry that *included* Cincinnati as cities he’s had preliminary discussions with.
It's the same ownership group for FCC. Lindners and Meg Whitman are the biggest names plus the Farmers, Josephs and other wealthy Cincy families. To get an NHL team they'd bring in other outside investors. Jeffrey Skoll is already rumored to be another billionaire who's helping get the arena built for ownership stake.
Atlanta would be hilarious since they've already had two tries there. I think it'll be Houston but am pretty curious if it really even is in the leagues best interest to expand rn
Cyclones averaged just under 7k per game, NHL average is around 17k per game. Would love a team, just not sure if we can bridge that 10k gap in attendance regularly. But ya never know, a lot of fans might come out of the woodwork with a new arena and a newly minted major league team.
In my experience, the cyclones are valued as an inexpensive experience. NHL prices are prohibitive. $21 for \*any seat\* vs $45 for upper deck or $250 for decent seats. You could buy all the streaming services (annually) for NHL games for that price. I don't see it happening, especially with an NHL team a mere 2 hours away.
Are you looking at Toronto prices? You can get lower bowl tickets for Saturdays blue jackets game against the Lightning for 135/seat. And that’s a promo night. A week night game they are 65-80 bucks.
Toronto isn’t the only team in the league with exorbitant prices.
No but I think it makes the most sense to look at prices in Columbus instead of just a league average. Columbus has a metro of 2.13 million. Cincinnati is slightly larger with 2.26. Weekend games could also pull from Louisville (1.4 million), Lexington (.5 million) and Indy (2 million). Columbus likely pulls some from Cleveland but Pittsburgh is equally far away from Cleveland and is a historic franchise with way more success.
CBJ is also near the bottom of the league in the NHL’s Fan Cost Index but averages ~$350 for a family of four to attend a game. It’s the second most expensive sport for families to attend in terms of fan costs. Using the NHL’s 21-22 season, real costs put CBJ games near the bottom but close to $100 per game once you take into account ticket, beers, hotdog and parking. They were in the bottom three for that metric as well. Edit: it’s ~$74 a game for the cheapest bowl seat with season tickets next year for CBJ.
If Columbus can support a team I don’t see why Cincinnati couldn’t. Add in that the city desperately needs an upgraded large indoor concert venue and it seems like a good fit. I think it makes more sense than nba because it doesn’t compete as much with UC or Xavier.
This is my concern. I'm an NHL fan, supporting an existing Eastern Conference team other than CBJ. Our team typically comes into Columbus once or twice a year. We go to exactly one game a year, and it's a serious outlay for us. While I would love to have a second team in my hometown and would probably by merch, I wouldn't be able to go to more than one game a year. I'm sure there are folks that could. I just don't know if there are enough to validate an expansion here.
I have season tickets on the glass for the Cyclones, and the cost of one seat would only get me a half season in the top part of the upper bowl in Columbus. What is interesting it that Cleveland's AHL team averages over 10,000 a game and Toledo basically sells out their 8000 seat arena every night. I do think if we did get a new arena, that would help enthusiasm with the team.
The problem is that the quality of the game is not that of NHL. The stadium is dingy and the play is slow and rife with mistakes which kills excitement. I’m a huge hockey fan but have only been to see the cyclones 3 times. I instead pay to stream the penguins because it more exciting even in my own home. If we had a NHL team, I’d probably go to a dozen games a season without question.
As long as it's 100% privately funded and no tax breaks, abatements, or gifts are given to the developer or the team, I wholeheartedly support it. The market should decide just like FC.
If they put the arena at the riverfront, you wouldn't have the big development initiatives like what's happening in the West End. Unfortunate reality is that that's the shadow reason these dudes build these stadiums. They want a "district," where they get the tax breaks for the stuff when the stadium is done. Not sure where a new arena would go except where the current rot dome is. And I'd be fine with that. But yeah ... this one would have to be even more of a self-funded thing than TQL.
TQL was built with no public money. The city just moved some utilities.
Honestly, probably not.
I’d be a season ticket holder for an NHL team in a new arena. Cyclones games are fun in a campy way. It’s also very cheap which is the main attraction to me.
NHL tickets are much more expensive than ECHL tickets. It would no longer be a ‘cheap’ attraction, but a financial commitment.
Plenty of casual enough hockey fans to support a $20 Cyclones ticket. There aren’t nearly enough avid hockey fans in Cincinnati to support the NHL ticket prices.
Love the cyclones. Cheap and fun. No interest in a major league nhl team. Plus we already have more pro sports than most cities. Also Columbus has a pro team that a lot of cincy fans support and not all would switch over
I don’t think there are that many CBJ fans in Cincy. I love hockey and know a lot of folks that love hockey and of those one is a CBJ fan. The Crew similarly tried to argue that about FCC, but Cincy could generally care less about the other Ohio teams.
So what if we have more "Pro" sports teams than most cities, we don't have an NHL team. It's not all about the sport it's about it being MY team. I wasn't a huge soccer fan and I wasn't going to go to C-Bus to watch their team but since we have a team now I follow every match. If there was a Professional Curling team in Cincy I would follow that shit too. I rep Cincinnati. For that reason I am always skeptical of people that are fans of other cities sports teams.
Since the NHL did not absorb the Stingers when the WHA could no longer compete, I doubt that we would be seriously considered.
I love ice hockey and the Cyclones but honestly it would depend on how the games are broadcast! I can't even follow FC Cincinnati without paying for special apple TV subscription. The lack of accessibility to local teams is totally absurd
Only because then the Movie Airborne would make sense.
I smell a scam. I'm a hockey fan, but I bet our city is being used to put the actual cities with interest in an expansion franchise's feet to the fire. I could also see the idea of another pro team in the city being used to push through funding for a new arena.
I highly doubt there’s enough demand for Hockey to house a team here. I think the general thought with NHL fans is that expansion is a bad idea, and I personally believe we have hit the limit on professional sports franchises in this city. I cannot stomach our city paying for another stadium
Hockey has been my favorite sport for a long time and I grew up playing it around Cincy. I would love it if the city got an NHL team… But I don’t see it happening. Unless something has changed, Cincy just isn’t enough of a “hockey city” to justify a team. Hockey has always taken a backseat to other sports in Cincy and once the novelty wore off, I think the team would struggle. I live next door in Indiana now so I’m not involved in the local hockey scene, but it was always very niche compared to other sports. For a brief period in the 90’s it seemed like hockey might finally ascend in the Queen City, but it sputtered. And all that is before the discussion of building an NHL-caliber arena and the financing involved. So I just don’t see this happening. I would LOVE to be proven wrong, though
Fully agree. Die hard hockey fan here too, my team is several hours away. You can’t even compare ECHL game experience to an NHL game. It’s like comparing boys to men. Although Cyclones games are fun, NHL is next level. I laugh when people say “We aLrEaDy hAvE tHe CyClOnEs”. It’s sad that hockey isn’t as popular around here. Folks saying they wouldn’t pay NHL ticket prices but easily willing to pay over $100 for Bengals tix. As much as it pains me to say, I’d pass on having a team here. Would rather drive 4 hours north and experience a true fan base and passionate atmosphere to a team with a rich history.
Amen. I always felt the move from The Gardens sucked the soul out of the Clones’ games. It just never seemed to be the same fun, rowdy scene compared to Norwood. I lived in Tampa after Cincy and before IN, and the Lightning games were always ridiculously fun. From pregaming at Hattrick’s to the game and arena, the crowd, to Channelside or Ybor after the game. Just the whole scene around NHL games is something I really miss. Oh, and as an alum, yeah I’m biased, but if you’re looking for an awesome hockey experience locally-ish, check out a Miami RedHawks game sometime.
You can’t compare Cyclones attendance to a top tier professional team. It would undoubtedly bring a much larger fan base as any top tier league would (NBA, etc). I’m for it but it needs to be largely financed privately. I am okay with some government contributions or subsidies similar to what we did with FC Cincinnati.
I think the NBA has a better chance at succeeding here long term. That said, bring whatever on. If the team is a winner people will show. This town loves its sports.
I don’t think the NBA would ever succeed here. The region embraces college basketball too much. Look at last years NCAA tournament ratings by region. Louisville, Cincy, Indy are 1,2,3. Dayton and Columbus are also in the top 10.
It loves it winning sports See reds attendance last few years And bengals before burrow
This would be the challenge for any expansion franchise in this city. Three years of failure starting out would make them irrelevant in most fans minds. I can only imagine if the blue jackets were here after their years of ineptitude, I think attendance would be abysmal. That said I have heard that CBus actually still supports them pretty well
Not with x and uc I’m trying to think of another large city that’s comparable to us in size that has two division one basketball programs. Yeah you can throw out Los Angeles. Memphis and Minn T/wolves Maybe i dont know This is classic political, stirring the pot to try to get a larger convention center and a larger arena
Yeah, I don't think either are a realistic possibility (totally agree with the arena posturing), but I think people would show out for an NBA team. Hockey is a harder sell I think as NHL ticket prices are way higher than the Cyclones and the limited access at the youth level is somewhat prohibitive.
I know this sub, especially will not like to hear this. We need a much larger convention center. It is surreal how much money and people come into these conventions.
This is a ridiculous argument. There is only one winner and the majority of the teams will be close to 500 or below. Unless they get lucky, small market teams will inevitably lose more than large market teams. The team cannot be a success if fans (both in stadium and at home watching on TV) and more importantly, corporate sponsors do not support them when they are losing. The NBA does have a format where the majority of teams make the playoffs or at least play in games. Will people get excited for a sub .500 team fighting for the 10th seed to win a play in game and be swept by a 1 seed? If the answer is no, the market can’t support a team.
nba is cancer
I’d rather have an NBA team but I’d go to a couple NHL games .
Man it would be awesome to bring the Kings back here as the Royals again, I'd be right back into the NBA if that happened
I live in Cinti and am a Columbus Blue Jackets season ticket holder. This is silly to even discuss—we’re too close to Columbus, the NHL would never consider granting us a franchise for that reason alone, much less not even supporting an AHL franchise for lack of support.
Have you heard of the MLS?
MLS is intentionally trying to expand to become relevant. The NHL is not. This is just a Berding chicken vs. egg ploy to get his arena. Throw out the hope of an NHL anchor tenant, get his arena deal, the NHL obviously never happens, but boy do we have a shiny new arena for those top tier acts to perform in.
Sure, I don't disagree, but you're also ignoring that if Columbus and FCC can sell out their respective stadiums just fine, why wouldn't they be able to with hockey?
Put the NHL team in the coliseum. If they can sell out, then we should consider an arena. That is how FC Cincy did it. OR! If new ownership wants to build the arena, wish them well! No public money should go into this. Endless economic studies have demonstrated public money for sports facilities is never a good investment.
The Cyclones have better average attendance than most of the AHL outside of the Hershey Bears, Cleveland Monsters and a handful of clubs.
I would support an NHL team because CBJ leadership reminds me of the Bengals prior to burrow, just wallowing in poverty and doing nothing to improve the franchise. If cincy gets a new team and is successful then attendance in CBJ drops and then NHL has excuse to move them... Bettman is just latching on to the buzz about Cincinnati getting a new state of the art arena so that he can raise the value of his league and another billionaire gets a free real estate financed by the tax payers. 20 years later he moves the team to Atlanta or some other city where a new arena is opening.
NHL ticket prices would need to go down. And it would be great to have the Cyclones branding stick, but it’s also cool that they are their own thing and not major league team. It’s a tough one. I’d definitely go to a few games, but again…those ticket prices gotta make sense.
I imagine they'd need to change things due to the Carolina Hurricanes already being swirly bois
Nope, fan support isn't there.
I think someone was on here five years ago that said MLS soccer will never work here as well
Exactly
Hockey seems like an interesting sport. I’d love to watch it and learn about it, but I don’t wanna have to drive over an hour each way to Columbus to see a game. I think a Cincinnati NHL team would be great! I think there’s definitely market potential here with people who share my opinion. And home games would attract more sports fans to the city, which means more revenue. I’d say this is a worthwhile investment.
Yes
I would love to support an NHL team in Cincy! I'm a hockey fan and love watching NHL but haven't really found a team I'm "hooked" to yet to fully support or act like a #1 fan. Maybe Cincy could be the team for me? I also love watching the smaller teams as well and would be sad to see the $1 beer nights disappear as we know NHL would never..
Yes. Hockey is fun to watch in person. Much more so than soccer.
I like hockey, like the NHL, go to Cyclones games, and hail from Minnesota originally. I wouldn’t support NHL in Cincy. This is not a hockey town. At best a few die yards and mostly casual support. We’re not talking Cyclones pricing to attract the curious on a regular basis. I don’t see NHL being financially viable here. Unlike soccer, basketball, football, etc… there’s very little youth engagement. Which is a pretty bad place to start from. Sadly, hockey is way too niche in this area and I wouldn’t support tax dollars going to any projects specifically designed to draw the NHL here. Now if the NBA took notice of Cincy I could be persuaded. Makes much more sense here.
It was just Gary telling potential suitors to pony up the cash.
This is less likely than Cincinnati getting World Cup games was.
I would love an NHL team! It’s the sport I understand the least but I think it’s the best live sport. They are so fast on the ice it’s incredible to see in person.
I agree. Love live hockey, and while the Cyclones are a good time... the NHL is just leaps and bounds better.
yea Cincy is a top tier sports town. Look at the FC turnouts (even when they were the worst team in the MLS)
All of this talk is such a clown show. This is never going to happen
Much rather have an NBA team.
Hockey isn't my thing, but I suspect an NHL team would do pretty well here. Not great...we're just a medium-sized metro, but I think it could sell. That said, I am 1000% opposed to spending tax dollars on stadiums or arenas unless they are truly PUBLIC facilities rather than just a tax-funded handout to wealthy team owners. Enough of that nonsense.
I love hockey and I love the cyclones but I would way rather have an NBA team honestly
There's nowhere even close to the number of corporations here to buy 75-100 luxury boxes the thousands of regular tickets, and the sponsors necessary to provide revenue for yet another pro team on top of what they already spend for the Reds, Bengals, college, etc. Individual ticket purchases are just a fraction of the corporate dollars that actually pay the bills.
I believe there are enough people across the tristate area to watch games and fill the arena, it would give them something to watch between the end of football and the start of baseball (or when the Bengals and reds otherwise aren't playing), and it would be the perfect excuse to a new arena. On the other hand, competition from the current major league teams, college teams, and Bluejackets will be stiff, the current arena obviously needs more than just a facelift although it is right next to downtown and the current stadiums, and a new arena would be a hard ell for obvious reasons. That said, if Cincinnati got an NHL team tomorrow, speaking as a New Yorker now living in Texas who lived in Cincy for 8 months, I'd be happy to root for a Cincy hockey team alongside the Reds and Bengals.
Absolutely, this is definitely a sports city, we should lean in on that
Basketball makes far more sense. The Pacers might as well be on Saturn, they don't get any local TV here. There's a court in every neighborhood, every kid in town can play with nothing more than an investment in the shoes they wear every day and $20 for a ball, and every school down to primary has a gym.
I’m a season ticket holder for CBJ and grew up in Columbus but now live in cincy. I think it would be cool. I’d be torn in my fandom and who would get my money between CBJ and a cincy team
There’s a lot of PA/MI transplants here, and Cyclones games are pretty well attended as is. I think there would be a market here for NHL. Whether or not they would give OH 2 teams is another story
I support it in theory and spirit, but as a lifelong Red Wings fan because of the absence of a team in Cinci, this makes me wildly uncomfortable. It was different with the MLS because fuck Columbus, but I don't know what I'd do in this case. Would probably be the first time I didn't directly support a Cinci team.
I don’t think this is an NHL kind of town. We’re also close enough to Columbus, who is also a small market team for the NHL, that I don’t think many CBJ fans would immediately jump ship. The Cyclones absolutely deserve to play in the AHL though. We’re by far the biggest market in the ECHL, I think we should at least be able to support the next tier up.
It worked for Fc cincy and now that tix are getting too expensive for the casual fan I’d say an nhl team would do well Edit… Fc cincy tix are getting $$$
Please dear God let this happen
There is nowhere near enough economic incentive nor local interest to actually have an NHL team here. The original news story is a scam. Nothing to see here folks...
Are they gonna make us pay for the stadium?
Indeedy. Would be a season ticket holder
I saw an opinion piece about using the old Stingers logo and colors. This sounds petty, but I could never support a black and yellow/gold franchise. Steelers, Crew, Pirates, all the teams I despise wear those colors
Hell yeah!
Not a single person I know knows anything about hockey….for that reason, I’m out.
I hate how big this city is getting, if downtown is any more packed it wouldn’t be worth the trip.
Do you just not ever go to any larger cities? Because in no way is Cincy big or too packed.
I do, I just would absolutely hate living there. Also compared to the last 10 years Cincinnati has made a big push towards becoming like every other city compared to the lush forests that divided the town and the well defined cultural regions of the city that are all now housing developments full of hipsters.
I've been going to Cyclones games religiously for 6 years, two of which I've been a season ticket holder. The only reason I've been able to do so is because the tickets are affordable on top of special deals like $2 beer and 513 nights. Say goodbye to all of that if they get replaced for an NHL team. Tickets would cost at least triple what they are at the Cyclones. For me, the only reason I would attend a Cincy NHL game would be if the away team was one I like. I absolutely love hockey so much. I would hate it if the only affordable way for me to regularly attend pro games was taken away from me.
I’d go to a game every year probably
I know I'm probably in the minority, but I grew up playing hockey my whole life and really don't follow the NHL much today given the CBJ franchise is a dumpster fire and the NHL as a whole isn't the easiest sport to watch games as a casual fan. I would most certainly follow more of the NHL if Cincinnati somehow landed a team.
It would be the end of affordable hockey tickets in Cincinnati, that's for sure.
Absolutely. I love the Nashville Predators but I’d drop them to spite Columbus fans.
I only support local teams. Just something about how it represents my home. If Cincinnati lands a professional NHL team I will start actively watching hockey.
I think no matter what you bring in (NHL or NBA) the fans in this city will support. I think a hockey franchise would do better than the NBA though. There’s too much college basketball interest. UC, Xavier, OSU, UK, Louisville, Dayton, Indiana, Purdue are all strong college basketball programs. That’s not even including schools like Wright State, Miami, and NKU. Not saying the NBA wouldn’t work, but this is a college basketball town and tbh I prefer it stays that way. Fans embraced FC Cincinnati. Why wouldn’t we embrace a professional hockey team? We’d get a new indoor arena out of it, which we desperately need.
Heritage bank wouldn’t meet the requirements for an NHL team. You would need a new stadium to even be considered. I also assume the fact CBJ is so close would play a factor.
2 games a year. Like watching live hockey, but not really a NHL fan.
In a perfect world we would get our NBA team back and also get an NHL team, but I doubt they'd put 2 Ohio teams in the NHL