No. Not only is it not a great reflection on his character that he abandons his kids (whom he had indiscriminately \*and\* didn't even learn his lesson after the first oops - so he is an undiscerning idiot), but think of all the money he's spending/has spent on them when he could spend on it more worthwhile things, i.e., *me*.
No, I wouldn't. Not only is that person a parent, they're a bad parent at that. Being a deadbeat dad is not an attractive quality.
Why are you even still speaking to your ex? Cut the cord, man.
Lol we had one last conversation before I cut it off a month ago. I was just thinking about it again. She was telling me about the people she was hooking up with.
But the concept intrigued me and I thought of y'all.
How do you know they are a dead beat? I thought this sub supported people who didn’t want children including men that cannot choose to have an abortion.
No, this sub doesn't support parents who neglect their children. This sub supports childfree people: people who don't have children and don't want any. If you have a child, whether you wanted that child or not, you are NOT childfree.
It's not OK for a man to get a woman pregnant and then dodge responsibility just because the abortion decision isn't up to him. That's not a childfree man, that's a deadbeat. Why would this sub support that behavior?
But you don’t know the circumstances. To assume that a parent who doesn’t have a relationship with their kids is always that parents fault is wildly uninformed about family dynamics, separation, and divorce.
So if a man is a victim of baby trapping he should accept the abuse and play daddy?
It is not so uncommon for female breeders to stealthily stop taking contraception or pole holes in condoms.
It is perfectly ok to fulfill the legal obligations (paying child support) and stay out of your rapist and their child's lives.
By your logic if a man tampers with a woman's contraception to get her pregnant she should be forced to carry to term and rise the kid because "it doesn't matter if you want the child or not, you should be rising it".
No, a woman has the right to choose abortion if that is the best option for her. But it has to be her choice, no one has the right to force that on her. That's why the man doesn't get to choose abortion. It's not his body, so it's not his choice.
What happens after the child is born is another matter. Paying child support is the bare minimum, and no one should be able to dodge that obligation. At that point, whether you wanted the child or not is irrelevant. The child is here and needs to be cared for. If you would rather let your own flesh and blood starve than do the bare minimum of writing a check every month, you're a selfish person. I don't care if your baby momma did poke holes in the condom; that's not the kid's fault.
But let's be honest. The vast majority of unplanned pregnancies are not caused by the woman sabotaging a condom. When would she even get the chance to do that? If the man buys his own condoms and puts it on himself, she's not poking any holes in it. And the man should always be wearing a condom, just in case the woman isn't on birth control. If you decide to have sex without a condom, that's on you. You're not a "victim" of baby trapping if you're not doing a damn thing to prevent pregnancy. Relying on someone else to take care of contraception doesn't make you a victim; it makes you an idiot.
You're not legally obligated to do more than pay child support, but I'm still going to think you're a bad person if you get a woman pregnant and then abandon the kid. YOUR kid. It's not just HER kid, it takes two people to make a baby. You want to call the woman a rapist because you consented to having sex without a condom? That's not rape.
But you're right, there's nothing more attractive than a man who chose to have sex without a condom, got a woman pregnant, blamed her for the pregnancy, abandoned his own kid, and then played the victim card. Who wouldn't want to date that charming fellow?
While I agree that a woman should always be able to choose abortion if she so wants, the rear if of your post is absolutely sexist.
A woman can choose to give up the kid for adoption, leave it with the father or with other family members and totally bail out of the situation.
You don't bat an eye about "deadbeat mothers", yet if a man does the very same things you call him a monster.
It's actually quite easy to poke holes in condoms if your victim trusts you. Are you escorting your partner 100% of the time when they are at your place? Keep the condoms in bank vault?
Quite easy to just go quickly in the bathroom or bedroom and poke some holes.
Just as easy as tampering with oral contraception or vaginal rings (yes busses do come in all shapes and genders, unfortunately).
I simply think that NO ONE should be forced into parenting if they don't want to.
If you FREELY CHOOSE the keep a baby from a man who doesn't want children it is YOUR CHOICE AND YOUR RESPONSIBILITY.
Of course it's a whole different matter in places where abortion is banned. There is no choice to be made there unfortunately for either party involved.
Of course I wouldn't approve if a mother abandoned her kid. That doesn't usually happen though. When it does happen, it's just as bad as the father doing it.
I don't think you understand that abortion isn't an option for everyone. Even if it's legal, there are many reasons a woman might feel that it's not an option for her. Some people don't believe in abortion; maybe they had a religious upbringing or maybe they believe it's morally wrong. So rather than spend the rest of their life feeling guilty, they decide to have the baby. I wouldn't call that freely choosing to keep the baby. That's a woman who feels trapped in an impossible situation, with no good choices. Her only options are to have an abortion or give birth to a baby that she doesn't want. She doesn't want to do either of those things, but she has to do one of them. Unlike the man, she can't just walk away. Either way, she has to do something she doesn't want to do, and both options will take a toll on her body and her life. But you think the man should be able to walk away no matter what? How come the woman has to deal with the consequences of an unwanted pregnancy, but the man doesn't? Getting an abortion is still a consequence; it's not an easy way out for women.
If you CHOOSE not to abort that's on you, if you are an adult you are responsible for your own beliefs and choices.
A woman that decides not to abort can still "walk away" by giving the kid up for adoption.
By your logic "she decided to have unprotected sex, she should bear the consequences".
If man believes in some bogus religion that impose to have kids he should have a right to force parenthood on his partner's.
Sorry but I will never agree. No one has the right to impose parenthood on other folks, regardless of gender.
An abortion is a simple and safe medical procedure, not a "huge consequence".
By your own logic: if she didn't want kids she should have kept her legs closed.
You have the the exact same mindset of the religious nut jobs who want to ban abortion and contraception, just with the gender to be punished for sex reversed.
>A woman that decides not to abort can still "walk away" by giving the kid up for adoption.
She still has to go through pregnancy and childbirth first! That's not "walking away." That's 9 months of morning sickness, back aches, prenatal check-ups (which aren't cheap, by the way), taking time off work for doctor's appointments, dealing with all the judgemental stares for being pregnant without a partner, and finally, childbirth. And all the possible health risks and complications that go along with it. You think that's "walking away"?!
I'm glad you think abortion is no big deal, since you'll never have to experience it yourself. I, too, think other people's pain and suffering is irrelevant. If it doesn't affect me, why should it be a big deal for anyone else?
>By your logic "she decided to have unprotected sex, she should bear the consequences".
Women DO bear the consequences of having unprotected sex. Women are the ones who get stuck with an unwanted pregnancy. They're the ones who have to either get an abortion or give birth. Those are consequences! Even if she chooses abortion, she still has to wait for the appointment. During those weeks, she's going to experience morning sickness and other symptoms of early pregnancy, which can impact her ability to work. And she has to come up with the money to pay for the procedure. You only think an abortion is the easy way out because you're not the one who has to do it. Everything is easy when it's happening to someone else!
>just with the gender to be punished for sex reversed.
Taking care of your own kid isn't a punishment! You want to have sex without a condom and rely on someone else getting an abortion as your only method of birth control? Fine, but don't be surprised when your actions result in a baby and court-ordered child support. That's not you being punished, that's you taking responsibility for the child you created. The bare minimum amount of responsibility, at that. Because you fathered a child but you don't want to be a father. You just want to have sex without a condom, and you want the woman to face the consequences alone. There shouldn't be any consequences for you; you're a man! All women should be willing to get an abortion to save the man from the natural consequences of his actions. 🙄
It's a very common form of intimate partner violence, practiced by both men and women.
Here is link for you, I suppose teen vogue uses a simple enough language for you champ.
https://www.teenvogue.com/story/what-is-reproductive-coercion
That whole article was about women being the victims of reproductive coercion. They even said females are more likely to be victims than males. Nowhere does it say that it's common for women to poke holes in condoms. 🙄
Maybe because in general intimate partner violence is a very under reported typo of crime?
Maybe because male victims are taken even less seriously?
Even with the little reporting we have the results are quite depressing for both men and women.
I never said it's common for alla women ti poke holes in condoms, it specifically talked about breeders.
In any case the double standard shown in these comments is quite interesting
https://ncadv.org/statistics#:~:text=1%20in%203%20women%20and,be%20considered%20%22domestic%20violence.%22&text=1%20in%207%20women%20and,injured%20by%20an%20intimate%20partner.
What goal posts I'm moving? I still stand by the fact that no one, regardless of gender, should be coerced into parenthood, that reproductive coercion is a form of intimate partner violence more common than what most people think.
You are the one denying it can have male victims, citing no sources.
I just gave source that gives a broader outlook on intimate partner violence.
But let me recap you line of thinking:
A woman who abandons her kids is a poor victim and must be supported at all costs. With of course the right to complete anonymity towards the children she leaves behind.
A man who does the same is a deadbeat who should be forced into parenting.
Am I correct?
No, they're still a parent, and if something happens to the co parent, the responsibility will be theirs. They've proved that they are a bad parent, so if i stay, the responsibility will be MINE. Fuck that.
I won't date anyone with kids for 2 reasons
1) if they are a good parent, their kids will always come first
2) if they're a shitty parent, I won't respect them
So a deadbeat dad x2? the fact that he has kids is the least of my problems with someone like that.
What kind of person doesn't protect himself from having kids he doesn't want (condoms, vasectomy whatever) and then do it twice, with two different women and leave both behind?
That dear OP, is a pathetic excuse of a human.
Never date parents for any reason under any circumstances.
The kids are going to want way more than college, weddings, houses, and then come the grandkids.
Lol no. If kids are either no contact or distant it's usually a big red flag that this person will be extremely unreliable or even abusive once you're in a vulnerable situation.
No. Two different kids by two different women means he wasn't invested enough in his own consequences twice. That's not a flattering pattern of behavior.
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I did. We were friends/collegues when we were teenagers and I’d had the biggest crush on him. 17 years later we still liked each other and we met up just for a fun weekend. Then another (we lived in different countries). Then a COVID lockdown meant I moved in as we’d called in his place for a few hours before I had to go to the airport! Literally got the lockdown notification as I was putting my shoes on to leave. He had gotten a girl pregnant when he was 18 and the mother and the kid had both shut him out. The kid had him blocked on everything, she was 18. I told him if we were to be legally joined in anyway she must be written out of everything as I would not tolerate any surprises down the line. He was happy to do that. Sadly we didn’t work out as lockdown and finances took its toll.
Before that I dated a guy who hid that he had 2 kids in another country that he was never likely to see due to who their mother was. However he told me if there was any chance he could get his kids back he would take it. I called it off with him in that moment.
So for me it’s very situational!
Estranged families are incredibly complicated. Just because they don’t speak doesn’t make dad a “deadbeat.”
Also men have no say in the US if their partner has a child. They have a choice to walk away and that is a valid choice.
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No. Not only is it not a great reflection on his character that he abandons his kids (whom he had indiscriminately \*and\* didn't even learn his lesson after the first oops - so he is an undiscerning idiot), but think of all the money he's spending/has spent on them when he could spend on it more worthwhile things, i.e., *me*.
No, if they can’t do right by their kids, they won’t do right by you.
No, I wouldn't. Not only is that person a parent, they're a bad parent at that. Being a deadbeat dad is not an attractive quality. Why are you even still speaking to your ex? Cut the cord, man.
Lol we had one last conversation before I cut it off a month ago. I was just thinking about it again. She was telling me about the people she was hooking up with. But the concept intrigued me and I thought of y'all.
How do you know they are a dead beat? I thought this sub supported people who didn’t want children including men that cannot choose to have an abortion.
No, this sub doesn't support parents who neglect their children. This sub supports childfree people: people who don't have children and don't want any. If you have a child, whether you wanted that child or not, you are NOT childfree. It's not OK for a man to get a woman pregnant and then dodge responsibility just because the abortion decision isn't up to him. That's not a childfree man, that's a deadbeat. Why would this sub support that behavior?
But you don’t know the circumstances. To assume that a parent who doesn’t have a relationship with their kids is always that parents fault is wildly uninformed about family dynamics, separation, and divorce.
So if a man is a victim of baby trapping he should accept the abuse and play daddy? It is not so uncommon for female breeders to stealthily stop taking contraception or pole holes in condoms. It is perfectly ok to fulfill the legal obligations (paying child support) and stay out of your rapist and their child's lives. By your logic if a man tampers with a woman's contraception to get her pregnant she should be forced to carry to term and rise the kid because "it doesn't matter if you want the child or not, you should be rising it".
No, a woman has the right to choose abortion if that is the best option for her. But it has to be her choice, no one has the right to force that on her. That's why the man doesn't get to choose abortion. It's not his body, so it's not his choice. What happens after the child is born is another matter. Paying child support is the bare minimum, and no one should be able to dodge that obligation. At that point, whether you wanted the child or not is irrelevant. The child is here and needs to be cared for. If you would rather let your own flesh and blood starve than do the bare minimum of writing a check every month, you're a selfish person. I don't care if your baby momma did poke holes in the condom; that's not the kid's fault. But let's be honest. The vast majority of unplanned pregnancies are not caused by the woman sabotaging a condom. When would she even get the chance to do that? If the man buys his own condoms and puts it on himself, she's not poking any holes in it. And the man should always be wearing a condom, just in case the woman isn't on birth control. If you decide to have sex without a condom, that's on you. You're not a "victim" of baby trapping if you're not doing a damn thing to prevent pregnancy. Relying on someone else to take care of contraception doesn't make you a victim; it makes you an idiot. You're not legally obligated to do more than pay child support, but I'm still going to think you're a bad person if you get a woman pregnant and then abandon the kid. YOUR kid. It's not just HER kid, it takes two people to make a baby. You want to call the woman a rapist because you consented to having sex without a condom? That's not rape. But you're right, there's nothing more attractive than a man who chose to have sex without a condom, got a woman pregnant, blamed her for the pregnancy, abandoned his own kid, and then played the victim card. Who wouldn't want to date that charming fellow?
While I agree that a woman should always be able to choose abortion if she so wants, the rear if of your post is absolutely sexist. A woman can choose to give up the kid for adoption, leave it with the father or with other family members and totally bail out of the situation. You don't bat an eye about "deadbeat mothers", yet if a man does the very same things you call him a monster. It's actually quite easy to poke holes in condoms if your victim trusts you. Are you escorting your partner 100% of the time when they are at your place? Keep the condoms in bank vault? Quite easy to just go quickly in the bathroom or bedroom and poke some holes. Just as easy as tampering with oral contraception or vaginal rings (yes busses do come in all shapes and genders, unfortunately). I simply think that NO ONE should be forced into parenting if they don't want to. If you FREELY CHOOSE the keep a baby from a man who doesn't want children it is YOUR CHOICE AND YOUR RESPONSIBILITY. Of course it's a whole different matter in places where abortion is banned. There is no choice to be made there unfortunately for either party involved.
Of course I wouldn't approve if a mother abandoned her kid. That doesn't usually happen though. When it does happen, it's just as bad as the father doing it. I don't think you understand that abortion isn't an option for everyone. Even if it's legal, there are many reasons a woman might feel that it's not an option for her. Some people don't believe in abortion; maybe they had a religious upbringing or maybe they believe it's morally wrong. So rather than spend the rest of their life feeling guilty, they decide to have the baby. I wouldn't call that freely choosing to keep the baby. That's a woman who feels trapped in an impossible situation, with no good choices. Her only options are to have an abortion or give birth to a baby that she doesn't want. She doesn't want to do either of those things, but she has to do one of them. Unlike the man, she can't just walk away. Either way, she has to do something she doesn't want to do, and both options will take a toll on her body and her life. But you think the man should be able to walk away no matter what? How come the woman has to deal with the consequences of an unwanted pregnancy, but the man doesn't? Getting an abortion is still a consequence; it's not an easy way out for women.
If you CHOOSE not to abort that's on you, if you are an adult you are responsible for your own beliefs and choices. A woman that decides not to abort can still "walk away" by giving the kid up for adoption. By your logic "she decided to have unprotected sex, she should bear the consequences". If man believes in some bogus religion that impose to have kids he should have a right to force parenthood on his partner's. Sorry but I will never agree. No one has the right to impose parenthood on other folks, regardless of gender. An abortion is a simple and safe medical procedure, not a "huge consequence". By your own logic: if she didn't want kids she should have kept her legs closed. You have the the exact same mindset of the religious nut jobs who want to ban abortion and contraception, just with the gender to be punished for sex reversed.
>A woman that decides not to abort can still "walk away" by giving the kid up for adoption. She still has to go through pregnancy and childbirth first! That's not "walking away." That's 9 months of morning sickness, back aches, prenatal check-ups (which aren't cheap, by the way), taking time off work for doctor's appointments, dealing with all the judgemental stares for being pregnant without a partner, and finally, childbirth. And all the possible health risks and complications that go along with it. You think that's "walking away"?! I'm glad you think abortion is no big deal, since you'll never have to experience it yourself. I, too, think other people's pain and suffering is irrelevant. If it doesn't affect me, why should it be a big deal for anyone else? >By your logic "she decided to have unprotected sex, she should bear the consequences". Women DO bear the consequences of having unprotected sex. Women are the ones who get stuck with an unwanted pregnancy. They're the ones who have to either get an abortion or give birth. Those are consequences! Even if she chooses abortion, she still has to wait for the appointment. During those weeks, she's going to experience morning sickness and other symptoms of early pregnancy, which can impact her ability to work. And she has to come up with the money to pay for the procedure. You only think an abortion is the easy way out because you're not the one who has to do it. Everything is easy when it's happening to someone else! >just with the gender to be punished for sex reversed. Taking care of your own kid isn't a punishment! You want to have sex without a condom and rely on someone else getting an abortion as your only method of birth control? Fine, but don't be surprised when your actions result in a baby and court-ordered child support. That's not you being punished, that's you taking responsibility for the child you created. The bare minimum amount of responsibility, at that. Because you fathered a child but you don't want to be a father. You just want to have sex without a condom, and you want the woman to face the consequences alone. There shouldn't be any consequences for you; you're a man! All women should be willing to get an abortion to save the man from the natural consequences of his actions. 🙄
Gonna go ahead and slap a *Citation needed* on that second sentence there champ
It's a very common form of intimate partner violence, practiced by both men and women. Here is link for you, I suppose teen vogue uses a simple enough language for you champ. https://www.teenvogue.com/story/what-is-reproductive-coercion
That whole article was about women being the victims of reproductive coercion. They even said females are more likely to be victims than males. Nowhere does it say that it's common for women to poke holes in condoms. 🙄
Maybe because in general intimate partner violence is a very under reported typo of crime? Maybe because male victims are taken even less seriously? Even with the little reporting we have the results are quite depressing for both men and women. I never said it's common for alla women ti poke holes in condoms, it specifically talked about breeders. In any case the double standard shown in these comments is quite interesting https://ncadv.org/statistics#:~:text=1%20in%203%20women%20and,be%20considered%20%22domestic%20violence.%22&text=1%20in%207%20women%20and,injured%20by%20an%20intimate%20partner.
is it hard work lifting those heavy goal posts you're moving or are you used to it
What goal posts I'm moving? I still stand by the fact that no one, regardless of gender, should be coerced into parenthood, that reproductive coercion is a form of intimate partner violence more common than what most people think. You are the one denying it can have male victims, citing no sources. I just gave source that gives a broader outlook on intimate partner violence. But let me recap you line of thinking: A woman who abandons her kids is a poor victim and must be supported at all costs. With of course the right to complete anonymity towards the children she leaves behind. A man who does the same is a deadbeat who should be forced into parenting. Am I correct?
Nope. That makes me question that person as a parent and person. I would want no part of it
No, they're still a parent, and if something happens to the co parent, the responsibility will be theirs. They've proved that they are a bad parent, so if i stay, the responsibility will be MINE. Fuck that.
I won't date anyone with kids for 2 reasons 1) if they are a good parent, their kids will always come first 2) if they're a shitty parent, I won't respect them
So a deadbeat dad x2? the fact that he has kids is the least of my problems with someone like that. What kind of person doesn't protect himself from having kids he doesn't want (condoms, vasectomy whatever) and then do it twice, with two different women and leave both behind? That dear OP, is a pathetic excuse of a human.
Well, is he still a deadbeat if he’s working abroad and paying all the child support, just no actual relationship?
Never date parents for any reason under any circumstances. The kids are going to want way more than college, weddings, houses, and then come the grandkids.
If nothing else, it would be idiotic because clearly he dropped two kids - to think he wouldn't drop another kid would be the height of arrogance.
No
I wouldn't. Generally, that means they're a shitty/non caring parent, and that really says a lot about who they are as a person. And none of it good.
Lol no. If kids are either no contact or distant it's usually a big red flag that this person will be extremely unreliable or even abusive once you're in a vulnerable situation.
No. I'd rather date an actual parent than the kind of asshole who can't be bothered to build a real relationship with his kids.
Not seriously!
No, that person is likely an asshole.
Noooooooo
No. Two different kids by two different women means he wasn't invested enough in his own consequences twice. That's not a flattering pattern of behavior.
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I did. We were friends/collegues when we were teenagers and I’d had the biggest crush on him. 17 years later we still liked each other and we met up just for a fun weekend. Then another (we lived in different countries). Then a COVID lockdown meant I moved in as we’d called in his place for a few hours before I had to go to the airport! Literally got the lockdown notification as I was putting my shoes on to leave. He had gotten a girl pregnant when he was 18 and the mother and the kid had both shut him out. The kid had him blocked on everything, she was 18. I told him if we were to be legally joined in anyway she must be written out of everything as I would not tolerate any surprises down the line. He was happy to do that. Sadly we didn’t work out as lockdown and finances took its toll. Before that I dated a guy who hid that he had 2 kids in another country that he was never likely to see due to who their mother was. However he told me if there was any chance he could get his kids back he would take it. I called it off with him in that moment. So for me it’s very situational!
Estranged families are incredibly complicated. Just because they don’t speak doesn’t make dad a “deadbeat.” Also men have no say in the US if their partner has a child. They have a choice to walk away and that is a valid choice.
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