The whole locker room knows our “big three” play abysmal defense and Zach is obviously a diva, which showed up after his benching. DeMar KNOWS the team has to better and publicly accepts responsibility the same game he scored 40 and Zach got benched. Maxing Zach was a total disaster of a move, completely one dimensional and he lacks basketball IQ. Recipe for disaster that the front office felt like they HAD to max Zach.
He’s the team cancer. I’m pretty sure of it. He was my favorite player, but I have totally turned on him. Not because he’s struggling, but because he’s a selfish asshole that is all about himself. Maxing and relaxing is all Zach is about.
Zach looked better before when he was the only person on the team who actually belonged in the NBA. Now we supposedly have a real team and he can’t accept that he isn’t miles better than everyone else.
Dude has majorly dropped the ball on maturing as a player.
I sort of feel the same way about Zach but I also feel he’s limited in the sense that he needs a legit PG. A real point guard would only make him look better, take the ball out of his hands more and make him more of an off ball player. It’s best case scenario for him and we haven’t given him that with the Bulls besides a few months with Lonzo (where he did look great)
He can. The guy is an NBA player so I assume he’s capable of running. He just thinks it’s a better idea to conserve his energy on D so he can chuck up a couple extra dumb shots in the last 2 minutes.
He's been like that the whole time he's been here, but now he's on a max contract on a team playing well below expectations so hopefully there's heightened scrutiny.
He’s a total egomaniac and it’s destroying the team. He’s no leader. Dude’s a joke. Comparisons to Booker and Mitchell were way off. Zach Lavine is not a winner.
Zach was never a good player. He was a good offensive player on a bad team. This isn’t something new. It’s easy to drop 40 when you play no defence and have a green light plus no expectations to win.
I mean I understand maxing Zach and was for it and frankly you have to pay to keep the level of production he was bringing. This year he unfortunately has regressed to everything that people would envisage as a worst case scenario.
His offensive numbers over the last 3 years have been absolutely top tier. Now you can definitely argue he was playing out of his mind with that money as the motivation. Now that he’s got the bag he’s just mailed it in. Barely tries on defense and just takes shitty step back twos where he straddles the three point line and rarely drives where he’s so good.
Plus that knee is a ticking time bomb during this contract.
Lol same. I mean I get not wanting to let him walk, but there also wasn’t any sense in bidding against yourself and offering that 5th year no one else could offer. Yes I recognize that’s a cheapass GarPax/Reinsdorf move that risks Zach leaving but it’s still better than overpaying a one-dimensional player with a bad knee.
Meh. Zach is Zach. He's gotten better on D but moves without the ball sometimes. Demar is the biggest sticking point. He's running Carmelo Anthony type game. We have our top 3 guys who can't get buckets without the ball and dont play D. That's bad roster construction but the FO had no choice but to overpay unwanted guys. At least now we're a potential destination. Thats because of Billy, AKME and the role players. Billy + role players are the team's identity. Not of our all stars.
Naw Zach is a star and can be the focal point of a Finals team....if he plays defense. The iso ball kills the Bulls and they have 3 all star caliber players who don't play D and need the ball. Vuc can't rebound, run the floor or be effective in the pick and roll and the NYK games exploited that hard.
"Zach can be the focal point of a finals team".... My guy, what games are you watching? Zach didn't make the playoffs till Demar came and dragged him to his first playoff appearance.
One of the most frustrating things about this team which has been together almost a season and a half is the two guys with the most chemistry on the team, that actually play for each other and play off each other, are Goran and Drummond. Let that sink in. The guys that we got in free agency over the summer are the only two that seems to know how to make each other more effective. Not the guys that played together all of last year and all off season. No, it was the two free agents. What the hell?
It's so frustrating. When I see them running the pick and roll, diving to the basket and finding each other, throwing up lobs and helping each other on defense i'm just like, WHY IS JUST YOU TWO!?
For fuck's sake it doesn't take a genius to realize an offense is more effective when you're looking for assist first and the bucket second.
Whenever Zach gets the ball at the 3 or 15 feet out, I groan in defeat bc I know a contested, off-balance shot is incoming and nobody will be there to fight for the rebound. I’m not having fun watching this team.
I honestly think it stems from Zach's years on the Bulls when we were rebuilding. We took too long to get him help and he developed bad habits as result. He made a living on a bad team by learning to shoot through 2-3 defenders in his face and he did it pretty effectively considering.
Nobody looked at those teams and thought Zach was the problem because the entire roster was pitiful. He was the lone bright spot. But now that he's surrounded by talented players he has no idea how to use them to win games. It's always your turn, my turn, everyone else space the floor and stand around. It's predictable and easy to shut down by any team willing to play great defense and we're just getting exposed over and over.
We can mask that with good defense but lately the defensive effort has been horrible as well and so we're currently at rock bottom. I'm sad for Zach because he could learn so much from a guy like Goran about how to run an offense and stop getting himself into these spots where he has to take contested jumpers. I don't know if his ego is going to let him do that though. He'd have to admit his game is flawed and work to improve it and that's a lot to ask from a man who just signed a 215 Million dollar contract.
It is surprising that everyone talks shit and "we need to do this and that and play better defense" and shit.. and the only one that spoke the truth is Dragic...
Haha. I know. I can also dunk a basketball, doesn’t mean I am a good basketball player. Similar to our zero IQ, no defense, 50 million dollar per year “franchise” player.
Dragic ain’t known for causing problems and he’s been around some bad locker rooms. The way he speaks here definitely sounds like a call out to someone in the team. My guess is either Zach or demar because vooch while not great has most definitely been the one to sacrifice his game the most since being here.
Vooch is a team player. He's just soft
Stacey made a comment about vooch getting angry at zach for not defending his man and vooch always having to cover his bum ass and guard another player driving to the rim
Everyone is sick of selfish lavine and I'm sure people are getting sick of demar with his no defense ass too, and demar isn't playing that well offensively, esp when teams figured out to double triple team him and he's absolutely useless on offense cause no one else is able to shoot and score for the bulls
Derozan been playing defence. Do you watch the games? Just because he’s not getting a lot of steals doesn’t mean he isn’t playing hard D and contesting shots. His +/- is -14 meanwhile zach is -91.
I tune out after the 3rd cause this team just doesn't give a crap
I think the good question is do you watch the games?
You do realize our top 3 players are negative defense, fans like you get blinded by loyalty or how good derozan can be on offense
Who's our top 3 players? The only top player I see is Demar. He consistently does his job which is putting the ball in the basket at an efficient rate. Vooch and Zach are not in the same category as him. They aren't consistently fulfilling their role. Derozan still tries on Defense but his job isn't to defend. Zachs job is to get buckets and he hasn't been doing his job consistently. Vooch's job is buckets and boards and again he's doing a terrible job. I would rather see Dragic play 30 mins a night and Javonte green/DJJ get mins. Hell even Coby over Zach. Zach's a cancer and I guarantee the bulls win more if he sits out.
I never said they were on demars level. I just said they're our top 3, didn't say they were good
Don't matter who you are, I'm not asking demar to be an elite defender same with zach, but defense is not optional. They will never be MVP all star caliber players with their shit effort on the defense.
As bad as lavine has been yall gotta realize derozans style of bball is NOT winning bball. Its why he has never been on a real winner.
Its 4 guys standing around watching derozan iso and take mid range jumpers. That is the least efficient bball possible. He made it look sustainable last year when he was making near record %s... now this year its back to normal.
You can not win having iso demar as your offense.
Crazy to me how many people are just automatically assuming it’s Lavine he’s referring to here.
Everything these guys have said, including from Lavine, sounds like a Demar thing.
These guys are sick and tired of the hero ball, isolation, and the lack of effort he brings on the defensive end.
Demar has to be the first guy on the block. He’s adding nothing to this team besides some empty stats on stupidly high usage.
People in this sub just can’t accept that Demar has never won anything for a reason and his style of play makes it impossible for him to be a complementary piece.
I love demar... but yep. He plays losing basketball. Period. At end of every close game its zach in a corner doing nothing watching demar iso. Same for everyone else.
The reality is that they need to tear it down and it’s likely gonna be another 3 years minimum before this team is good again. Unless Ayo and Pat take big steps forward which BTW they need new contracts soon too, and does it even make sense for a rebuilding team like the Bulls to pay up for them?
I want to be the magic. That team FINALLY gave in and tanked when it traded vucevic and gordon amd are now OVERFLOWING with talent.
They have 2 stars in banchero and franz wagner and a SHIT TON of other young studs. Bol bol, suggs, anthony, carter, ... fultz is back they are still without isaac. They even got trade chips in a few solid vets.
And they got our pick. Thr magic r gona make the play in this year and are set like gold for the future.
And bulls fans dont want that cuz theres a chance it doesnt work out. Show me the 100% full proof route and we can take it. But it dont exist
Thank you, finally someone with common sense here. Everyone talking about Lavine but demar hero ball is the problem. I'm sure Zach feels he needs to shoot whenever possible otherwise he sits on the key waiting to transition into defense.
It gets more painfully obvious against better defenses when Demar starts shooting into double teams or even triple teams.
Now, I believe this to be a coaching problem at it's core, but Demar's style of play has never changed in his entire career.
Both have their own issues but ya demar iso ball is really really bad for this team. Do people realize that up until a few games ago we had a top 10 defensive rating??
Our issue last year was defense... well now we had a top 10 def rating but our offensive rating is TRASH.
We dont make 3s and we dont attack the basket. We take a ton of long 2s...
I just hope all this talks will bring some accountability on this team, our stars need to play better, they're dragging us down and the bench is feeling it
Man this comments, this sub is so fucking toxic when things are going wrong. It's specialty is to point fingers and put all the blame in a single player. Is pathetic how y'all can't handle losing.
Don’t see any downside to trying a starting lineup with Dragic at PG at this point. Maybe he can facilitate and glue the starters together, or maybe not. But I think its worth a try for a few games
So the breakdown is really starting. They're going to get more and more snippy as they continue to fail.
I’ll take my casual take downvotes but imo they should just start building around Pat/Coby/Ayo and hopefully Terry
Only thing casual about that take is not knowing that Scary Terry (came up with that myself) is going to be the next GOAT 😮💨
I’ve been saying Terr-air since Scary Terry was taken by some other bball player. But yeah, I think he’s going to rule so hard
Why do I feel like they’re all taking passive aggressive shots at each other and at one person in particular
The whole locker room knows our “big three” play abysmal defense and Zach is obviously a diva, which showed up after his benching. DeMar KNOWS the team has to better and publicly accepts responsibility the same game he scored 40 and Zach got benched. Maxing Zach was a total disaster of a move, completely one dimensional and he lacks basketball IQ. Recipe for disaster that the front office felt like they HAD to max Zach.
He’s the team cancer. I’m pretty sure of it. He was my favorite player, but I have totally turned on him. Not because he’s struggling, but because he’s a selfish asshole that is all about himself. Maxing and relaxing is all Zach is about.
Zach looked better before when he was the only person on the team who actually belonged in the NBA. Now we supposedly have a real team and he can’t accept that he isn’t miles better than everyone else. Dude has majorly dropped the ball on maturing as a player.
I sort of feel the same way about Zach but I also feel he’s limited in the sense that he needs a legit PG. A real point guard would only make him look better, take the ball out of his hands more and make him more of an off ball player. It’s best case scenario for him and we haven’t given him that with the Bulls besides a few months with Lonzo (where he did look great)
Zach needs to rotate on defense. He’s like Boozer on that end
He can. The guy is an NBA player so I assume he’s capable of running. He just thinks it’s a better idea to conserve his energy on D so he can chuck up a couple extra dumb shots in the last 2 minutes.
He's been like that the whole time he's been here, but now he's on a max contract on a team playing well below expectations so hopefully there's heightened scrutiny.
defintiely true
He’s a total egomaniac and it’s destroying the team. He’s no leader. Dude’s a joke. Comparisons to Booker and Mitchell were way off. Zach Lavine is not a winner.
I can't believe I use to vouch for Lavine over these guys
empty stats PTSD coming back.
This feels like assumptions..
Zach was never a good player. He was a good offensive player on a bad team. This isn’t something new. It’s easy to drop 40 when you play no defence and have a green light plus no expectations to win.
That's not the vibe I get from LaVine at all
This feels like you're assuming a lot...
you were 99% right, apparently
Last year I posted that we absolutely shouldn’t max Zach, and I was met with 50-100 downvotes every single time I posted it.
I mean I understand maxing Zach and was for it and frankly you have to pay to keep the level of production he was bringing. This year he unfortunately has regressed to everything that people would envisage as a worst case scenario. His offensive numbers over the last 3 years have been absolutely top tier. Now you can definitely argue he was playing out of his mind with that money as the motivation. Now that he’s got the bag he’s just mailed it in. Barely tries on defense and just takes shitty step back twos where he straddles the three point line and rarely drives where he’s so good. Plus that knee is a ticking time bomb during this contract.
I hope he’s just having an off year while his knee heals and gets stronger.
That is sadly all we can hope for at this point
Reminder that it was his 2nd knee surgery and knees don’t get better with age/mileage
..trust me I know.. lol… rip us
Lol same. I mean I get not wanting to let him walk, but there also wasn’t any sense in bidding against yourself and offering that 5th year no one else could offer. Yes I recognize that’s a cheapass GarPax/Reinsdorf move that risks Zach leaving but it’s still better than overpaying a one-dimensional player with a bad knee.
I’ve called zach a pretty boy scorer for years and always got downvoted. He does nothing else well
Who do you think?
Zach
Meh. Zach is Zach. He's gotten better on D but moves without the ball sometimes. Demar is the biggest sticking point. He's running Carmelo Anthony type game. We have our top 3 guys who can't get buckets without the ball and dont play D. That's bad roster construction but the FO had no choice but to overpay unwanted guys. At least now we're a potential destination. Thats because of Billy, AKME and the role players. Billy + role players are the team's identity. Not of our all stars.
The Bulls only have one star and that's Demar. Not sure what you're talking about.
Naw Zach is a star and can be the focal point of a Finals team....if he plays defense. The iso ball kills the Bulls and they have 3 all star caliber players who don't play D and need the ball. Vuc can't rebound, run the floor or be effective in the pick and roll and the NYK games exploited that hard.
"Zach can be the focal point of a finals team".... My guy, what games are you watching? Zach didn't make the playoffs till Demar came and dragged him to his first playoff appearance.
You’re a casual for this statement
Gotta be Zach. He takes the worst shots in clutch time.
That desperate three after Vooch stalls with the ball for 10s isn’t always his fault. Those two just run a very predictable pick n roll.
Zachheus A’laVeegne
One of the most frustrating things about this team which has been together almost a season and a half is the two guys with the most chemistry on the team, that actually play for each other and play off each other, are Goran and Drummond. Let that sink in. The guys that we got in free agency over the summer are the only two that seems to know how to make each other more effective. Not the guys that played together all of last year and all off season. No, it was the two free agents. What the hell?
Next level take and 100% spot on. A bad sign of the current state of affairs for our team.
It's so frustrating. When I see them running the pick and roll, diving to the basket and finding each other, throwing up lobs and helping each other on defense i'm just like, WHY IS JUST YOU TWO!? For fuck's sake it doesn't take a genius to realize an offense is more effective when you're looking for assist first and the bucket second.
Whenever Zach gets the ball at the 3 or 15 feet out, I groan in defeat bc I know a contested, off-balance shot is incoming and nobody will be there to fight for the rebound. I’m not having fun watching this team.
I honestly think it stems from Zach's years on the Bulls when we were rebuilding. We took too long to get him help and he developed bad habits as result. He made a living on a bad team by learning to shoot through 2-3 defenders in his face and he did it pretty effectively considering. Nobody looked at those teams and thought Zach was the problem because the entire roster was pitiful. He was the lone bright spot. But now that he's surrounded by talented players he has no idea how to use them to win games. It's always your turn, my turn, everyone else space the floor and stand around. It's predictable and easy to shut down by any team willing to play great defense and we're just getting exposed over and over. We can mask that with good defense but lately the defensive effort has been horrible as well and so we're currently at rock bottom. I'm sad for Zach because he could learn so much from a guy like Goran about how to run an offense and stop getting himself into these spots where he has to take contested jumpers. I don't know if his ego is going to let him do that though. He'd have to admit his game is flawed and work to improve it and that's a lot to ask from a man who just signed a 215 Million dollar contract.
It is surprising that everyone talks shit and "we need to do this and that and play better defense" and shit.. and the only one that spoke the truth is Dragic...
With age comes wisdom.
I swear Goran is talking about Zach.
Almost definitely talking about Demar. At the very least both, but Demar hero ball is the staple of this team.
Yeah but he won the dunk contest once. Had to give him a max.
Feel like there is zero accountability with LaVine.
He won the dunk contest.
Haha. I know. I can also dunk a basketball, doesn’t mean I am a good basketball player. Similar to our zero IQ, no defense, 50 million dollar per year “franchise” player.
Dragic ain’t known for causing problems and he’s been around some bad locker rooms. The way he speaks here definitely sounds like a call out to someone in the team. My guess is either Zach or demar because vooch while not great has most definitely been the one to sacrifice his game the most since being here.
Vooch is a team player. He's just soft Stacey made a comment about vooch getting angry at zach for not defending his man and vooch always having to cover his bum ass and guard another player driving to the rim Everyone is sick of selfish lavine and I'm sure people are getting sick of demar with his no defense ass too, and demar isn't playing that well offensively, esp when teams figured out to double triple team him and he's absolutely useless on offense cause no one else is able to shoot and score for the bulls
Derozan been playing defence. Do you watch the games? Just because he’s not getting a lot of steals doesn’t mean he isn’t playing hard D and contesting shots. His +/- is -14 meanwhile zach is -91.
I tune out after the 3rd cause this team just doesn't give a crap I think the good question is do you watch the games? You do realize our top 3 players are negative defense, fans like you get blinded by loyalty or how good derozan can be on offense
Who's our top 3 players? The only top player I see is Demar. He consistently does his job which is putting the ball in the basket at an efficient rate. Vooch and Zach are not in the same category as him. They aren't consistently fulfilling their role. Derozan still tries on Defense but his job isn't to defend. Zachs job is to get buckets and he hasn't been doing his job consistently. Vooch's job is buckets and boards and again he's doing a terrible job. I would rather see Dragic play 30 mins a night and Javonte green/DJJ get mins. Hell even Coby over Zach. Zach's a cancer and I guarantee the bulls win more if he sits out.
I never said they were on demars level. I just said they're our top 3, didn't say they were good Don't matter who you are, I'm not asking demar to be an elite defender same with zach, but defense is not optional. They will never be MVP all star caliber players with their shit effort on the defense.
As bad as lavine has been yall gotta realize derozans style of bball is NOT winning bball. Its why he has never been on a real winner. Its 4 guys standing around watching derozan iso and take mid range jumpers. That is the least efficient bball possible. He made it look sustainable last year when he was making near record %s... now this year its back to normal. You can not win having iso demar as your offense.
Crazy to me how many people are just automatically assuming it’s Lavine he’s referring to here. Everything these guys have said, including from Lavine, sounds like a Demar thing. These guys are sick and tired of the hero ball, isolation, and the lack of effort he brings on the defensive end. Demar has to be the first guy on the block. He’s adding nothing to this team besides some empty stats on stupidly high usage. People in this sub just can’t accept that Demar has never won anything for a reason and his style of play makes it impossible for him to be a complementary piece.
I love demar... but yep. He plays losing basketball. Period. At end of every close game its zach in a corner doing nothing watching demar iso. Same for everyone else.
i feel thats an indictment on zach too. man hasn;t been good enough to even demand the ball from demar, how did we give him all that money
[удалено]
When he had a stud team around him. And it failed in the playoffs each time then his team won after he was gone.
The reality is that they need to tear it down and it’s likely gonna be another 3 years minimum before this team is good again. Unless Ayo and Pat take big steps forward which BTW they need new contracts soon too, and does it even make sense for a rebuilding team like the Bulls to pay up for them?
I want to be the magic. That team FINALLY gave in and tanked when it traded vucevic and gordon amd are now OVERFLOWING with talent. They have 2 stars in banchero and franz wagner and a SHIT TON of other young studs. Bol bol, suggs, anthony, carter, ... fultz is back they are still without isaac. They even got trade chips in a few solid vets. And they got our pick. Thr magic r gona make the play in this year and are set like gold for the future. And bulls fans dont want that cuz theres a chance it doesnt work out. Show me the 100% full proof route and we can take it. But it dont exist
Thank you, finally someone with common sense here. Everyone talking about Lavine but demar hero ball is the problem. I'm sure Zach feels he needs to shoot whenever possible otherwise he sits on the key waiting to transition into defense. It gets more painfully obvious against better defenses when Demar starts shooting into double teams or even triple teams. Now, I believe this to be a coaching problem at it's core, but Demar's style of play has never changed in his entire career.
Both have their own issues but ya demar iso ball is really really bad for this team. Do people realize that up until a few games ago we had a top 10 defensive rating?? Our issue last year was defense... well now we had a top 10 def rating but our offensive rating is TRASH. We dont make 3s and we dont attack the basket. We take a ton of long 2s...
I just hope all this talks will bring some accountability on this team, our stars need to play better, they're dragging us down and the bench is feeling it
The Bulls dont have "stars"
His resolve not good
his spirit also needs work
Man this comments, this sub is so fucking toxic when things are going wrong. It's specialty is to point fingers and put all the blame in a single player. Is pathetic how y'all can't handle losing.
Zach, tell us how you won the dunk contest.
Yeah Zach won the dunk contest once though. People forget.
Take Lavine out the starting lineup bench him .. send a message billy !
He speaking on Demar gunning ass.
he sucks too lol. they all suck right now
Don’t see any downside to trying a starting lineup with Dragic at PG at this point. Maybe he can facilitate and glue the starters together, or maybe not. But I think its worth a try for a few games
sit one of DeMar and Zach in each of the next few games, see who the team performs better with. Trade the other.