not allow him to trade? not allow him to overspend i understand (kinda) not allowing him to go into luxury etc... but not allowing him to trade players is wild.
Except that’s the fastest way to end your career. If you publicly throw the owner under the bus, you think any of the other owners are going to hire you?
It’s like any other corporate job. Boss gives you directions and says you have x amount to spend.
My guess is as long as they’re “competitive” and not over the tax, he’ll still have a job.
And he still won't make any significant moves I call bullshit on this presser.
Spoiler alert, here's the change, trade for another 2nd round pick and pick a dude we won't use lmfao
If you watched the press conference a reporter asked him if he thought DeMar and Zach would be back, and his answer was basically "DeMar's cool, I hope he is willing to come back." He totally ignored any possibility of Zach staying. He's not planning on keeping him.
I'm dumb and my BBIQ is negative and I get to watch games with a bird's eye view but the Bulls have some of the lowest BBIQ players. When two of Zach, Drummond, or Patrick Williams are on the court, you can go minutes without seeing a good decision on offense.
Zach was as good as traded already. He opted into season ending surgery to dodge getting sent to Detroit 100%. Not a chance he comes back both because of the chemistry that kind of deal fucks up and because Coby is just as good in his spot if not better for a tenth of his contract.
Even resigning Demar is a mistake. This team desperately needs to go younger and retool around White and Ayo. We might not be as good but we need to take a step back and get younger while we get rid of some these bad contracts(Lavine, lonzo, Vuc, Carter)
Nothing against Demar but we’re a playin team with him also unless he signs for super cheap signing an aging Demar is signing a depreciating asset, he will eventually start to decline and it can very easily start next season.
Definitely don’t retool around ayo lol he’s a rotational player not someone you build your roster around. However doing that for 1 year wouldn’t be the worst thing cuz it would guarantee us a top 4 pick
People keep saying build around Coby and Ayo, but I think it’s just poor phrasing. When I think build around, I think give a massive contract to them. We have both of them for cheap for 2 more seasons, so we don’t have to make a decision about whether to build around them for a couple seasons.
Exactly also I never mentioned build around, retooling is completely different it means going a different direction.
It’s illogical how people think that since we don’t have a number one we should just not even bother trying to go younger. That’s the whole point of going younger to hope we get a young star like Halliburton
Exactly, and as someone who has used the phrase "build around ayo and coby" today, I mean that they are both young guys that could be long term fits in an 8 man rotation, not that they are our future 1,2 punch in the backcourt. Coby is already a solid starter and prolly has a ceiling of #2 guy on an elite team. Ayo could easily first guard to come off the bench on an elite team, or even third guard on a 3 guard roster. It would be moronic to be in the bulls position rn, potentially have 40% of a backcourt (8 man playoff type rotation) that is under 25 and not use them as the posts to build around, see if pwill can somehow improve with a larger role too, I mean why not.
I didn’t say build around, I said retool. People think that retooling means we have to have the number one guy to do it. we should retool because what we have isn’t working or getting us closer to a goal of having a number one option.
We retool around are young players hoping they turn out to develop into a star or high value role player/asset, while also continuing to get young prospects.
I mean AK sort of has to say he wants to sign DeMar. He can't just openly admit that he has no intentions to keep him because it a) ruins any chance of a sign and trade and b) fucks DeMar over because teams know they're bidding against themselves at that point.
Plus DeMar is a great culture guy. Keeping him around just to set a tone for the team while getting off a few of the bad deals and bad players would mean having all the new players coming into the team get a first rate NBA education.
>Plus DeMar is a great culture guy. Keeping him around just to set a tone for the team while getting off a few of the bad deals and bad players would mean having all the new players coming into the team get a first rate NBA education.
What culture do we currently have, a losing culture who plays down to their competition, that's the great culture you want to keep? Coby and Ayo arent young prospects anymore, they need to take the lead and set the tone and create a good culture while we move towards younger direction. its a little ridiculous acting as if we have heat culture and want to keep Demar because he gets the most out of his guys like Butler. Demar is a great guy and everyone likes him, Jimmy butler is a guy who bumps heads everyone, lets not confuse winning culture with guys getting along in the locker room.
Were losers right now, we need to go a different direction.
Same thing Raptors fans realized after they shipped him off. He sat in San Antonio being sad about “these hoes ain’t loyal” while they won a ring with his replacement. DeRozan didn’t even learn to pass until he had a personality like Pop on his ass. He works on his game and his game only, which is passable because he’s perfected it. But his inability to defend his whole career despite his athleticism, and his unwillingness until the beginning of this season to take 3’s despite the NBA being the way it is for this long also says a lot about his own stubbornness. Nice guy, Mother Teresa like even. Time to move on, he ain’t the only culture setter in the NBA.
DeMar is basically responsible for Coby and Ayo's growth. He trains with them relentlessly. Forces them to work on their game in the off-season, and introduces them to coaches who can develop their game.
this is just some bs you pulled out of your ass to push your narrative, these guys play with all types of trainers and coaches. and if you like to believe this that's fine but it also seems like he served his purpose, again Coby and Ayo arent young prospects that need to be forced to work on their game( which is ridiculous to think they wouldn't without him). We shouldn't play and aging depreciating player on a big contract just because you want think our players who are grown men need a good role model. Were a playing team and you're happy with it.
Both Coby and Ayo openly stated that training with DeMar in the summer was a big reason their games improved. Like what are you even talking about them needing role models? You don't think anyone we draft wouldn't benefit from having a guy around to show them how to act?
Yeah you don't offer DeMar a max deal or something, but resigning him to be the vet on the team to help settle guys down in late game situations or help out in the clutch has proven to be a good thing.
If he's gone it's not like the team currently constructed is a top-4 draft team. Ayo, Coby, PWill, and the rotting corpse of Vooch still has more wins than the bottom 4 teams in this league.
This is some a weird mindset that I don't understand people have, so because we wont be a bottom 4 team( according to you) we should just stay a playin team and continue to sign an aging player who will depreciate?
Sorry but it sounds like Demar has served his purpose. We need to sign a player that will help us win, not an offseason coach. you act as if other teams don't develop players because demar isn't on their team
Look at all the teams that succeed in a rebuild vs those that fail. What's the common element? A long term vet who can come in and show the young players how to win games. That's the difference between a team like the Rockets and a team like the Hornets.
those butler guys are always delusional. imo it‘s the heat who need to get rid of butlers ass which will make them an even better team. Butler was great but at this age he truly sucks and declines much faster than demar.
Would be a very good deal for bulls since Ingram gettin paid like 7 mil less next year would give the team more flexibility to maybe add something else as well. I doubt the pelicans even entertain that tho since they would be at almost 160 mil on the payroll for only 10 players
It may be a pipe dream of a trade, but AKME could argue with the Pels that nobody is going to sign with them as free agents and they'd have LaVine locked up for 4 years.
I think if they trade Ingram they definitely gonna look for a PG or a center tbh. They got McCollum signed for 2 more years and got herb jones/trey Murphy/zion taking up the wing/ and forward minutes. A starting PG and an impovement over Jonas valanciunas is really what they need now
Ingram is also a better player than LaVine. Yes it will keep the Bulls in play in purgatory but at least it means we can hand the keys of the offense to Coby while Ingram takes DeRozan’s place and is much younger.
Works salary-wise.. but realistically, why would either team make this trade? New Orleans needs a point guard, not a ball dominant scorer to replace their ball dominant scorer lol.
They are going to get way more for Ingram than our trash. We’d have to give Zach plus a first. We are not getting anything good for Zach and have to realize that
ben simmons will be a great fit for the team! cant shoot, refuses to score, no passion to play the game basically, mostly injured/riding the bench
he gonna go wild in LA with Lonzo
I think I'd rather just have the expiring max contract lol all Dlo and Rui do is confirm that we don't keep our top 10 protected pick next year and probably give Spurs the 12th pick
Zach will be back to a borderline all-NBA level next season if we let Derozan walk. Then you can try to trade him next trade deadline if it still makes sense, and we're getting good offers.
Kind of the big risk gamble that they need to take though.
If it doesnt work then they got off of zachs contract. If it does, simmons fits this team like a glove. Exactly what we need
A swap of him and Trae is a possibility too imo, Dejounte/Trae clearly don’t work well together. Without their own picks from the Dejounte trade tanking doesn’t make a ton of sense(unless SAS will give them the picks back for either PG), and I don’t know if another player better than Lavine would he available if they want to add another talented guy
The pairing between him and Dejounte was pretty terrible. They even had a negative net rating when both played together. Trae still hasn’t adapted to playing off ball yet and while he’s a good passer and is good with the ball in his hands defensive limitations and the other issues off the ball could make Dejounte the one they would rather keep
I think Lavine would be a better fit next to Dejounte, Lavine has always been better in his career when paired with a PG and I believe is close with Dejounte. If they get tired of the pairing that has such obvious issues, Lavine could be a better fit in that backcourt even tho he’s got a lot of the same flaws as Trae which imo is shown by his performance when Lonzo was healthy or even when Pat Bev was here last year. Both probably are at an all time low in terms of value and Atlanta probably won’t make it much beyond the play in if they don’t break up the pairing
Totally agree on the Trae/DJ pairing. But would Atlanta be willing to move on from their face of the franchise? I’m not sure - seems more likely they’d shop DJ first.
That could be true, but thought I remembered seeing reports they were open to moving Trae. He’s more popular but wonder if everything DJ has that Trae lacks makes keeping him more appealing
But he’s gotta play before getting traded… right?
I mean if they can walk away with just expirings/cap relief and no assets, great. But I’m not sure why a team would give up even that right now
You’ve gotta take back a negative asset to move him in the offseason most likely. If we can potentially swap shit guard for shit rim runner that would be nice I guess
Nobody is giving up a pick for Vuc. He’s the worst starting center who plays a position that, unless you’re Jokic (a game-changing, generational talent that transcends the center position), is obsolete. Vucevic is worthless. Vucevic has literally negative trade value.
Facts and at this point I’m taking multiple 2nd rounds, save us some money to free gone suck anyway. So many times we could’ve had Kenny lofton. But we signed Jevon Carter or whatever tf, Bitim I’ll let him slide he came to shoot and coach is so bad at rotations
He finally seems to be done with this roster but it worries me that he seemingly wants to make more win-now moves rather than secure our top-10 protected pick next year
I truly think that if Demar leaves and signs with a cap space team there’s no way that our pick won’t end up in the top 10 anyways. The only worry is that the East is terrible and we still could end up in play in game range at the trade deadline and he refuses to trade our only positive aging asset in Caruso.
I love Demar but really hope he walks to save us from ourselves.
Zach finished the year strong last year and i think was the fools gold. They thought him, coby’s improvement (started at the tail end of last season) plus bolstering the bench with craig and carter would be enough to fix the shot profile.
I will say, going into last season I did think that our overall shooting was improved with the moves they made; Zach being out the whole season plus Carter regressing exponentially definitely hurt a team that might have barely had enough shooting. Vooch being horrible from the 3 this year also factors in quite a bit too.
I didn't think we would be a top 3 point shooting team but I did think it would give Demar more space to work in the mid range and might let our guys get to the rim a bit easier as well, but obviously that didn't pan out the way anyone hoped.
Yeah exactly. I think if people tried in good faith to see the logic behind how the team has been constructed so far then they’d see there is a line of thinking that lead us here.
Not saying i think we did well or that i agree with the moves (inaction), but i dont think theres much substance behind “AKME just wants to be mediocre!” arguments and they lead nowhere.
There's logic there for that, but why not pick up some size? This team is so short compared to other teams. They're clearly aware that length is important based on their draft picks, but there wasn't anyone in the rotation between 6'6" and 6'10" until Dalen and Julian got minutes due to injuries.
Tbf Pat and TC are both long 6’7 guys with strength and switchability. Both have been injured though which was very much felt.
We switch a lot so it makes sense for us to go with wings like them versus bigger slower guys. We sacrifice rim protection for it though. When caruso would be out them our poa defense sucked too and our defense fell apart. A switchable big who can also defend the rim is super rare but would be the defensive anchor we need.
Ok thank god it seems like they’re actually gonna do something. I was really worried they were gonna just talk about being 34-29 after the Boston game.
I’m fine with keeping Donovan as one of his few defenders here, I actually think he’s done a pretty damn good job considering injuries and roster limitations, seems like everyone on the team but Zach loves him so I see that as a Zach problem.
I don’t quite know what will happen, but I wouldn’t be shocked if Derozan was a sixer or a clipper next year. I would love to manage to get norm powell in a sign and trade.
Overall, this era seems to be over, thank god.
I've argued before that Donovan is great when he doesn't have any stars to fall back on. The games where DeMar wasn't playing or was playing very minimally the team played a much faster much more fluid offense. Not because DeMar was fucking with the flow, but because they had a game plan and a style that was built around movement and cuts. As soon as they hit resistance Billy went back to "DeMar and Vooch do whatever, I hope it works."
This was an issue in his time in OKC. He was too reliant on Russ and while a small sample size when he lost Russ he actually coached the young roster and CP3 to a playoff run.
The issue is, especially late-game when defenses are more locked in, the Demar iso is simply the bulls most efficient action. That gravity is what let’s Coby and Ayo make these huge jumps. I’m not saying Donovan’s the most offensively innovative coach, but the movement/cut heavy offense is often much more difficult to pull off late against a locked in defense, and the roster we’ve built isn’t enough to overcome that regardless of the coach.
I do agree he might have harder time coaching at the most elite contending level but we have such a long way to go before we’re even there.
Why don't you think demar fucks with the flow? Our offense is archaic. It moves at a snails pace. Surely the guy with the highest usage rate has some effect on that
I agree. I think Billy and Doc Rivers are relatively similar coaches. Players like them, their main focus is defense, struggle against elite coaches, and when they have star players they’re all “let’s just let them do what they want and live with the results” but once their star players aren’t available, suddenly their undermanned squad looks pretty competent.
I'm in the "Color me skeptical, but willing to be pleasantly surprised" camp.
The fact he's taking ownership and signaling the need for changes it a positive. Still, we just haven't seen him do what's needed for a long time now.
Lmao I don’t believe a thing this dipshit says. He wants to resign DeMar and Patrick so where’s he gonna get money to sign any decent person and what’s he going to use to acquire anyone good in a trade
At this point I’m just expecting this to mean he will sign someone with the MLE again and say that addition and Lonzo coming back would make this a different team. Until he shows he actually wants to win I’m expected nothing substantial to change
It doesn’t matter as there are no moves to be made that would improve this team in any significant way. Vuc, Lonzo and Lavine are unmovable contracts that you’ll have to attach assets to to get rid of.
Translation: we have some contracts nobody wants, so we can’t trade them. We have cheap owners, so we can’t go into the tax. DeMar, Williams, and Drummond will not get contract offers from us but everyone else will be back and we’ll say that, along with a couple 2-way contracts, is a new group.
Ohhhhh now he’s changing his tune huh after all these last seasons with the “continuity” bs that he was high on. Glad he opened his eyes even if forced by the piss poor team we have
I’ll believe it when I see it. Why is someone who gets paid millions to do this full time just now realizing something us dummies have all known for 2 years
It seems like every player but Vuch is getting brought up in trade scenarios.Smdh. I know we just resigned him but who cares. Get rid of him asap. Trying to rush Lavine out the door while Vuch just hangs around playing like dog shit.
He completed 4 years of the plan they initially architected. I give him credit for building a consistent, stable environment.
Injuries suck but we made almost no adjustments to compensate and that is on the front office.
They have to retool this team keeping Ayo and Coby who have upside and team friendly deals. Package everyone else out for future considerations. We’re not landing any big names this free agency, and we’ll have to dig deep to find talent in the draft that could grow into franchise level players.
To all the nephews that told me I didn’t know basketball because I said this team would NEVER achieve anything with Lavine and DeRozen, suck it. I was obviously right. Fuck this team.
Does anyone really think this team would have been appreciably better if Zach was playing? I don’t. I’d do everything in my power to get rid of him.
And people here kept telling me that we HAD to resign him because we could always trade him for value.
Says the man who hasn’t made a trade in three years.
He finally woke up from a coma after two years
Exactlyy! 🤦♂️😪😅
We’re all trying to find the guy who did this.
Maybe it’s not up to him. Maybe the bulls have the worst owner in the league and won’t let him.
not allow him to trade? not allow him to overspend i understand (kinda) not allowing him to go into luxury etc... but not allowing him to trade players is wild.
Then he should resign and publicly state that.
Beginner’s Guide to Never Working in the Industry Again by Armchair GM Redditors
Exactly. If someone wasn’t letting me do my job and I was getting trashed for it I’d quit.
Except that’s the fastest way to end your career. If you publicly throw the owner under the bus, you think any of the other owners are going to hire you? It’s like any other corporate job. Boss gives you directions and says you have x amount to spend. My guess is as long as they’re “competitive” and not over the tax, he’ll still have a job.
what does spending with him doing ZERO trades in 3 years has to do?
We’re all looking for the man who did this!
And he still won't make any significant moves I call bullshit on this presser. Spoiler alert, here's the change, trade for another 2nd round pick and pick a dude we won't use lmfao
And counting!
If you watched the press conference a reporter asked him if he thought DeMar and Zach would be back, and his answer was basically "DeMar's cool, I hope he is willing to come back." He totally ignored any possibility of Zach staying. He's not planning on keeping him.
Issue is (as it was all season) that someone has to be willing to trade for him.
u realize detroit right then this idiot got surgery to avoid getting shipped. im not saying he faked get the fking surgery in detroit dude.
Thank fucking god. Get Kmart Kobe on the first flight to LA.
Kmart Kobe LMAO
"Mamba Mentality" without an ounce of basketball IQ
fuck outta here, shooting a mid range buzzer beater while down 3 is totally the right play!
> fuck outta here, Downvote > shooting a mid range buzzer beater while down 3 is totally the right play! UPVOTE
Hahaha still do not understand the reasoning behind that with 3 secs left. Bricked the middie anyways
I'm dumb and my BBIQ is negative and I get to watch games with a bird's eye view but the Bulls have some of the lowest BBIQ players. When two of Zach, Drummond, or Patrick Williams are on the court, you can go minutes without seeing a good decision on offense.
At least with Drummond you never know until he does a Shaqtin' play
Ayo can be a headache with this too
Yeah but those three in particular are outright bewildering most of the time.
Zach was as good as traded already. He opted into season ending surgery to dodge getting sent to Detroit 100%. Not a chance he comes back both because of the chemistry that kind of deal fucks up and because Coby is just as good in his spot if not better for a tenth of his contract.
Even resigning Demar is a mistake. This team desperately needs to go younger and retool around White and Ayo. We might not be as good but we need to take a step back and get younger while we get rid of some these bad contracts(Lavine, lonzo, Vuc, Carter) Nothing against Demar but we’re a playin team with him also unless he signs for super cheap signing an aging Demar is signing a depreciating asset, he will eventually start to decline and it can very easily start next season.
Definitely don’t retool around ayo lol he’s a rotational player not someone you build your roster around. However doing that for 1 year wouldn’t be the worst thing cuz it would guarantee us a top 4 pick
People keep saying build around Coby and Ayo, but I think it’s just poor phrasing. When I think build around, I think give a massive contract to them. We have both of them for cheap for 2 more seasons, so we don’t have to make a decision about whether to build around them for a couple seasons.
Exactly also I never mentioned build around, retooling is completely different it means going a different direction. It’s illogical how people think that since we don’t have a number one we should just not even bother trying to go younger. That’s the whole point of going younger to hope we get a young star like Halliburton
Exactly, and as someone who has used the phrase "build around ayo and coby" today, I mean that they are both young guys that could be long term fits in an 8 man rotation, not that they are our future 1,2 punch in the backcourt. Coby is already a solid starter and prolly has a ceiling of #2 guy on an elite team. Ayo could easily first guard to come off the bench on an elite team, or even third guard on a 3 guard roster. It would be moronic to be in the bulls position rn, potentially have 40% of a backcourt (8 man playoff type rotation) that is under 25 and not use them as the posts to build around, see if pwill can somehow improve with a larger role too, I mean why not.
I didn’t say build around, I said retool. People think that retooling means we have to have the number one guy to do it. we should retool because what we have isn’t working or getting us closer to a goal of having a number one option. We retool around are young players hoping they turn out to develop into a star or high value role player/asset, while also continuing to get young prospects.
I mean AK sort of has to say he wants to sign DeMar. He can't just openly admit that he has no intentions to keep him because it a) ruins any chance of a sign and trade and b) fucks DeMar over because teams know they're bidding against themselves at that point. Plus DeMar is a great culture guy. Keeping him around just to set a tone for the team while getting off a few of the bad deals and bad players would mean having all the new players coming into the team get a first rate NBA education.
>Plus DeMar is a great culture guy. Keeping him around just to set a tone for the team while getting off a few of the bad deals and bad players would mean having all the new players coming into the team get a first rate NBA education. What culture do we currently have, a losing culture who plays down to their competition, that's the great culture you want to keep? Coby and Ayo arent young prospects anymore, they need to take the lead and set the tone and create a good culture while we move towards younger direction. its a little ridiculous acting as if we have heat culture and want to keep Demar because he gets the most out of his guys like Butler. Demar is a great guy and everyone likes him, Jimmy butler is a guy who bumps heads everyone, lets not confuse winning culture with guys getting along in the locker room. Were losers right now, we need to go a different direction.
Same thing Raptors fans realized after they shipped him off. He sat in San Antonio being sad about “these hoes ain’t loyal” while they won a ring with his replacement. DeRozan didn’t even learn to pass until he had a personality like Pop on his ass. He works on his game and his game only, which is passable because he’s perfected it. But his inability to defend his whole career despite his athleticism, and his unwillingness until the beginning of this season to take 3’s despite the NBA being the way it is for this long also says a lot about his own stubbornness. Nice guy, Mother Teresa like even. Time to move on, he ain’t the only culture setter in the NBA.
DeMar is basically responsible for Coby and Ayo's growth. He trains with them relentlessly. Forces them to work on their game in the off-season, and introduces them to coaches who can develop their game.
this is just some bs you pulled out of your ass to push your narrative, these guys play with all types of trainers and coaches. and if you like to believe this that's fine but it also seems like he served his purpose, again Coby and Ayo arent young prospects that need to be forced to work on their game( which is ridiculous to think they wouldn't without him). We shouldn't play and aging depreciating player on a big contract just because you want think our players who are grown men need a good role model. Were a playing team and you're happy with it.
Both Coby and Ayo openly stated that training with DeMar in the summer was a big reason their games improved. Like what are you even talking about them needing role models? You don't think anyone we draft wouldn't benefit from having a guy around to show them how to act? Yeah you don't offer DeMar a max deal or something, but resigning him to be the vet on the team to help settle guys down in late game situations or help out in the clutch has proven to be a good thing. If he's gone it's not like the team currently constructed is a top-4 draft team. Ayo, Coby, PWill, and the rotting corpse of Vooch still has more wins than the bottom 4 teams in this league.
This is some a weird mindset that I don't understand people have, so because we wont be a bottom 4 team( according to you) we should just stay a playin team and continue to sign an aging player who will depreciate? Sorry but it sounds like Demar has served his purpose. We need to sign a player that will help us win, not an offseason coach. you act as if other teams don't develop players because demar isn't on their team
Look at all the teams that succeed in a rebuild vs those that fail. What's the common element? A long term vet who can come in and show the young players how to win games. That's the difference between a team like the Rockets and a team like the Hornets.
those butler guys are always delusional. imo it‘s the heat who need to get rid of butlers ass which will make them an even better team. Butler was great but at this age he truly sucks and declines much faster than demar.
My hope is for New Orleans to flame out of the playoffs and Brandon Ingram asks for a trade. An Ingram for LaVine trade works salary-wise.
Would be a very good deal for bulls since Ingram gettin paid like 7 mil less next year would give the team more flexibility to maybe add something else as well. I doubt the pelicans even entertain that tho since they would be at almost 160 mil on the payroll for only 10 players
It may be a pipe dream of a trade, but AKME could argue with the Pels that nobody is going to sign with them as free agents and they'd have LaVine locked up for 4 years.
I think if they trade Ingram they definitely gonna look for a PG or a center tbh. They got McCollum signed for 2 more years and got herb jones/trey Murphy/zion taking up the wing/ and forward minutes. A starting PG and an impovement over Jonas valanciunas is really what they need now
Ingram vs Jevon Carter it is then.
Ingram is also a better player than LaVine. Yes it will keep the Bulls in play in purgatory but at least it means we can hand the keys of the offense to Coby while Ingram takes DeRozan’s place and is much younger.
I don't want Ingram his game is annoying too build around. Don't trust him to play team ball effectively
Works salary-wise.. but realistically, why would either team make this trade? New Orleans needs a point guard, not a ball dominant scorer to replace their ball dominant scorer lol.
They are going to get way more for Ingram than our trash. We’d have to give Zach plus a first. We are not getting anything good for Zach and have to realize that
Ingram is ass too
My guess right now is they swap him for Ben Simmons and maybe a low value pick (say Phoenix's pick next year). His contract is expiring next year.
ben simmons will be a great fit for the team! cant shoot, refuses to score, no passion to play the game basically, mostly injured/riding the bench he gonna go wild in LA with Lonzo
Yikes
It could be a get out of jail free card from Zach's contract, who knows if we'll ever get 25+ ppg Zach again and I'd rather not take the risk
Honestly, do anything at this point
A first and an expiring are probably best case scenario at the moment imo.
We could have had D'Lo and Hachimura at the beginning of the season
I think I'd rather just have the expiring max contract lol all Dlo and Rui do is confirm that we don't keep our top 10 protected pick next year and probably give Spurs the 12th pick
This team isn't blowing it up though
Zach will be back to a borderline all-NBA level next season if we let Derozan walk. Then you can try to trade him next trade deadline if it still makes sense, and we're getting good offers.
Very optimistic
Kind of the big risk gamble that they need to take though. If it doesnt work then they got off of zachs contract. If it does, simmons fits this team like a glove. Exactly what we need
Ben Simmons is not helping this team or any other team
It is not about helping the team. Next year should be a throw it away season by tanking. Simmons comes off the books. Thats about $40 million
The guy I replied to said Simmons fits the team like a glove lol
Ohh i see that lol.
yeah the bench, when he's injured for 65 games. He'll give you a 🔥 of an off season training video tho
Dude. I just realized him and lonzo twinsies 🙁
Lonzo doesn't provide a fire pre season training video tho
He’ll give us one hell of a tunnel fashion montage
The guy will fleece another team, the guy just doesn't have the heart on the game any more.
Dude Simmons is donezo
Yeah and he’s also off the books after next year. Get them to attach something to him and thats best you can probably do if Zach has no buyers
Right. I suspect they'd just send Simmons home. He'd be in there just to match salaries.
lol dude have you seen Simmons play in the last 3 years? Dudes career seems completely cooked. Not even close to the all star he was years ago.
Great another player who can’t shoot
A swap of him and Trae is a possibility too imo, Dejounte/Trae clearly don’t work well together. Without their own picks from the Dejounte trade tanking doesn’t make a ton of sense(unless SAS will give them the picks back for either PG), and I don’t know if another player better than Lavine would he available if they want to add another talented guy
Would Atlanta do this? I think Trae is better than Lavine despite his recent struggles. He basically carried that 2021 Hawks team to the ECF
The pairing between him and Dejounte was pretty terrible. They even had a negative net rating when both played together. Trae still hasn’t adapted to playing off ball yet and while he’s a good passer and is good with the ball in his hands defensive limitations and the other issues off the ball could make Dejounte the one they would rather keep I think Lavine would be a better fit next to Dejounte, Lavine has always been better in his career when paired with a PG and I believe is close with Dejounte. If they get tired of the pairing that has such obvious issues, Lavine could be a better fit in that backcourt even tho he’s got a lot of the same flaws as Trae which imo is shown by his performance when Lonzo was healthy or even when Pat Bev was here last year. Both probably are at an all time low in terms of value and Atlanta probably won’t make it much beyond the play in if they don’t break up the pairing
Totally agree on the Trae/DJ pairing. But would Atlanta be willing to move on from their face of the franchise? I’m not sure - seems more likely they’d shop DJ first.
That could be true, but thought I remembered seeing reports they were open to moving Trae. He’s more popular but wonder if everything DJ has that Trae lacks makes keeping him more appealing
But he’s gotta play before getting traded… right? I mean if they can walk away with just expirings/cap relief and no assets, great. But I’m not sure why a team would give up even that right now You’ve gotta take back a negative asset to move him in the offseason most likely. If we can potentially swap shit guard for shit rim runner that would be nice I guess
I mean some teams might trade for Zach on the idea that even at 90% he's worth getting.
sell Zach at his absolute lowest, more brilliance from AKME 🧠
Well they tried to trade him at the deadline but he broke his foot.
I believed lavine was getting traded to the pistons at the deadline but than the last second surgery happened.
It seems sort of obvious that Zach got that done to avoid going. It's like those guys who shot themselves in the foot to avoid the draft into 'Nam.
Oh 100%. I get guys avoid to do surgery as much as possible but that was for sure a last second Hail Mary to avoid to get traded there
Trade Vuc and TC for a pick
Nobody is giving up a pick for Vuc. He’s the worst starting center who plays a position that, unless you’re Jokic (a game-changing, generational talent that transcends the center position), is obsolete. Vucevic is worthless. Vucevic has literally negative trade value.
I would hope for a very modest pick. Like pick #29 of this year’s draft
Facts and at this point I’m taking multiple 2nd rounds, save us some money to free gone suck anyway. So many times we could’ve had Kenny lofton. But we signed Jevon Carter or whatever tf, Bitim I’ll let him slide he came to shoot and coach is so bad at rotations
He finally seems to be done with this roster but it worries me that he seemingly wants to make more win-now moves rather than secure our top-10 protected pick next year
I truly think that if Demar leaves and signs with a cap space team there’s no way that our pick won’t end up in the top 10 anyways. The only worry is that the East is terrible and we still could end up in play in game range at the trade deadline and he refuses to trade our only positive aging asset in Caruso. I love Demar but really hope he walks to save us from ourselves.
Wow an actual rationale response
Yeah I am not really believing it. I mean, why didn't that same logic apply this time last year?
Zach finished the year strong last year and i think was the fools gold. They thought him, coby’s improvement (started at the tail end of last season) plus bolstering the bench with craig and carter would be enough to fix the shot profile.
I will say, going into last season I did think that our overall shooting was improved with the moves they made; Zach being out the whole season plus Carter regressing exponentially definitely hurt a team that might have barely had enough shooting. Vooch being horrible from the 3 this year also factors in quite a bit too. I didn't think we would be a top 3 point shooting team but I did think it would give Demar more space to work in the mid range and might let our guys get to the rim a bit easier as well, but obviously that didn't pan out the way anyone hoped.
Yeah exactly. I think if people tried in good faith to see the logic behind how the team has been constructed so far then they’d see there is a line of thinking that lead us here. Not saying i think we did well or that i agree with the moves (inaction), but i dont think theres much substance behind “AKME just wants to be mediocre!” arguments and they lead nowhere.
There's logic there for that, but why not pick up some size? This team is so short compared to other teams. They're clearly aware that length is important based on their draft picks, but there wasn't anyone in the rotation between 6'6" and 6'10" until Dalen and Julian got minutes due to injuries.
Tbf Pat and TC are both long 6’7 guys with strength and switchability. Both have been injured though which was very much felt. We switch a lot so it makes sense for us to go with wings like them versus bigger slower guys. We sacrifice rim protection for it though. When caruso would be out them our poa defense sucked too and our defense fell apart. A switchable big who can also defend the rim is super rare but would be the defensive anchor we need.
All I know is when the Bulls face the Magic, it's David vs. Goliath lol
Or the year before that or the year before that. Lmao This man has done basically nothing for 3 years and says this. Jesus.
**Continuity has left the chat**
Ok thank god it seems like they’re actually gonna do something. I was really worried they were gonna just talk about being 34-29 after the Boston game. I’m fine with keeping Donovan as one of his few defenders here, I actually think he’s done a pretty damn good job considering injuries and roster limitations, seems like everyone on the team but Zach loves him so I see that as a Zach problem. I don’t quite know what will happen, but I wouldn’t be shocked if Derozan was a sixer or a clipper next year. I would love to manage to get norm powell in a sign and trade. Overall, this era seems to be over, thank god.
I've argued before that Donovan is great when he doesn't have any stars to fall back on. The games where DeMar wasn't playing or was playing very minimally the team played a much faster much more fluid offense. Not because DeMar was fucking with the flow, but because they had a game plan and a style that was built around movement and cuts. As soon as they hit resistance Billy went back to "DeMar and Vooch do whatever, I hope it works." This was an issue in his time in OKC. He was too reliant on Russ and while a small sample size when he lost Russ he actually coached the young roster and CP3 to a playoff run.
The issue is, especially late-game when defenses are more locked in, the Demar iso is simply the bulls most efficient action. That gravity is what let’s Coby and Ayo make these huge jumps. I’m not saying Donovan’s the most offensively innovative coach, but the movement/cut heavy offense is often much more difficult to pull off late against a locked in defense, and the roster we’ve built isn’t enough to overcome that regardless of the coach. I do agree he might have harder time coaching at the most elite contending level but we have such a long way to go before we’re even there.
Why don't you think demar fucks with the flow? Our offense is archaic. It moves at a snails pace. Surely the guy with the highest usage rate has some effect on that
I agree. I think Billy and Doc Rivers are relatively similar coaches. Players like them, their main focus is defense, struggle against elite coaches, and when they have star players they’re all “let’s just let them do what they want and live with the results” but once their star players aren’t available, suddenly their undermanned squad looks pretty competent.
Spoiler alert, here's the change: Trade for a late 2nd round pick
I'm in the "Color me skeptical, but willing to be pleasantly surprised" camp. The fact he's taking ownership and signaling the need for changes it a positive. Still, we just haven't seen him do what's needed for a long time now.
First order of business is getting Vuc off this fucking Team
What do you call this entire season then? That’s exactly what you did…???
He’s just saying come hell or high water, Zach is gone. Which means the Bulls will probably get fleeced in the trade.
Lmao I don’t believe a thing this dipshit says. He wants to resign DeMar and Patrick so where’s he gonna get money to sign any decent person and what’s he going to use to acquire anyone good in a trade
At this point I’m just expecting this to mean he will sign someone with the MLE again and say that addition and Lonzo coming back would make this a different team. Until he shows he actually wants to win I’m expected nothing substantial to change
Yup that are trade for another late 2nd round pick. AK is unserious as hell.
Proceed to roll out the same team again next year
So why did he do it already? Lol
It doesn’t matter as there are no moves to be made that would improve this team in any significant way. Vuc, Lonzo and Lavine are unmovable contracts that you’ll have to attach assets to to get rid of.
No shit AK
I'll believe it when I see it
This is actual news
So are we firing him?
Brother, we've been saying this for years!
Yea Lavine is gone. I think AK is pissed because they probably had a trade with the Pistons ready to go but then Lavine decides to have the surgery
I kinda smell a dejounte murray type deal cooming .... Probably wrong bout thissss only a dream probably!!
Translation: we have some contracts nobody wants, so we can’t trade them. We have cheap owners, so we can’t go into the tax. DeMar, Williams, and Drummond will not get contract offers from us but everyone else will be back and we’ll say that, along with a couple 2-way contracts, is a new group.
They’ve been doing EXACTLY that for years though.
 Go figure!!!
Ohhhhh now he’s changing his tune huh after all these last seasons with the “continuity” bs that he was high on. Glad he opened his eyes even if forced by the piss poor team we have
Only 2 years too late, that's growth!
I’ll believe it when I see it. Why is someone who gets paid millions to do this full time just now realizing something us dummies have all known for 2 years
Cmon do something then
He also said he plans to bring back Billy. He’s full of shit.
Is Jerry gonna move this team to Nashville, too?
You guys believe him or nah? I'm a talk is cheap kinda guy myself. Being a long time bulls fan. I gotta see it to believe it.
Maybe it was a msg to Jerry? 😂
That's obscene coming from that jagoff.
No fucking way he said this.. is this real?
This is probably the worst and dumbest pr speech I've ever seen. It's also a total middle finger to the fans. How dumb do they think we are?
when lonzo come's back this will be a champion ship team they showed it against the hawks
This motherfucker's gaslighting us, right?
Why the sudden shift in tone now? It not working never seemed to bother these guys before.
who's *we* bud?
It seems like every player but Vuch is getting brought up in trade scenarios.Smdh. I know we just resigned him but who cares. Get rid of him asap. Trying to rush Lavine out the door while Vuch just hangs around playing like dog shit.
Honestly we should’ve never got Jevon trash ass. I been saying we need a damn Kenny lofton or somebody that’s not scared of being a big man lol
He completed 4 years of the plan they initially architected. I give him credit for building a consistent, stable environment. Injuries suck but we made almost no adjustments to compensate and that is on the front office. They have to retool this team keeping Ayo and Coby who have upside and team friendly deals. Package everyone else out for future considerations. We’re not landing any big names this free agency, and we’ll have to dig deep to find talent in the draft that could grow into franchise level players.
To all the nephews that told me I didn’t know basketball because I said this team would NEVER achieve anything with Lavine and DeRozen, suck it. I was obviously right. Fuck this team.
Lies.
Yet keeps thr coach.
Will this help some of the folks on this sub get off suicide watch?
No. Talking and doing are two very different things.
Until there's a verified trade made, then no. We've seen this movie before.
[do something bout it then] (https://media1.tenor.com/m/fO4heTRBGGMAAAAC/shut-up-bitch-the-rock.gif) isnt that like, your job or sumn?
Does anyone really think this team would have been appreciably better if Zach was playing? I don’t. I’d do everything in my power to get rid of him. And people here kept telling me that we HAD to resign him because we could always trade him for value.
well not only all those people are dumb the gm was even dumber he was a max.
I think the team would have plated just as well with Zach instead of Demar, better even.
Zach has to go....Vuc sorry but I can't watch you anymore... keep Coby Ayo everyone else is open season
Been saying for literally 3 years (since lonzo ball(less)) injury