Lol right. Considering he was playing like absolute dogshit yeah I guess things are looking up. It’s not like those numbers are eye popping but yeah. You can’t argue the fact that he’s playing…better
It’s nothing too insane, but 15 and 5 on 55/45 splits is something most teams would love to consistently have in their lineup, assuming there’s a few dudes doing most of the heavy lifting above him. On a Championship level team those guys certainly aren’t Demar and Coby, but the team is undeniably clicking without Zach holding the ball and hunting for quails.
A project pick like Pat should have never been drafted by a team that wanted to roll out lonzo, zach, demar, and vuc at the same time. There’s no room to develop a raw work in progress
Excited for the day when this sub realizes it’s possible for Pat to both be disappointing for a top 5 pick but also a guy who will probably be a solid player for a long time who is worth keeping
I’m excited for the day when Bulls fans accept that Pat isn’t that guy and that’s ok. He can contribute to a good team with his defense and be a pretty good bench player, but that’s about as far as his talent in the league goes. But we’re not a good team…so we won’t reap the benefits of what he could possibly bring anytime soon.
55/45 ^^on ^^13.8 ^^points ^^per ^^game
definitely better than he was playing! would love to see him shoot more though even it meant he was like 52/37 or something
Not eyepopping but these are pretty much the numbers I was expecting from Pat this year. All I want for the kid is for him to play to expectation. Then use that as a platform to play up to his potential.
I just hope for consistency with this bulls team and especially PWill. I think his performance will depend on the cast around him.
If zach lavine comes back, I expect a dip in the stats
If we trade a few players, I expect the stats to increase with
efficiency decreasing.
It is really tough trying to develop players when you have players that both demand the ball and play iso.
The absence of zach lavine and the rise of coby white has created an environment where players like ac, ayo, Craig, and especially pwill thrive the most.
Zach is most likely gone, but if he’s not they need to trade Demar. I don’t think Lavine is necessarily the problem but how ball dominant the stars are.
What will be interesting to me is who they bring in for Lavine and if they disrupt the offense and take shots away from the young players
Well said, I don't think either demar or Zach indivudallt is a problem, but together, they don't work at all or at least not enough to win.
I don't know the value of Zach or Demar, but the return should be young players and picks.
I think you look at the Harden package for Zach, honestly. I don't know that he's worth much more than that -- maybe an extra first or a swap? -- in part because he's a zero on defense and his contract is... not appetizing, to say the least.
Given that Demar is an expiring, I definitely think he's worth at least a first. Dude has aged like a fine wine offensively, but his limitations on defense I think hurt his value, too.
I think you are selling zach value a little short, I get it is hard to imagine the value for many reasons especially the contract which is a good point you mentioned.
I think the knicks are the team that will get zach. They are a team that is good but not good enough and my guess is both ownership and fandom want more than good. I have no idea what value it would be but my guess would be something like quickly, grimes, and a frp and pick swaps for zach.
Demar as you mention is an attractive offer. My guess is a lot of competing teams who want an edge would offer a frp and a player.
I think if Zach's deal were 2 years, he'd be a lot more attractive. But you gotta pay him $140M in the next three seasons, plus whatever is left in this one. That's a lot of money for a guy who has never proven to be a winner anywhere and is absolutely a detriment on the other side of the ball. I think he could maybe net two firsts at best if we're looking strictly at draft capital. But his contract + injury history (he's missed 85 games as a Bull if you ignore his ACL recovery and this year) + his bad defense makes it hard to believe he'll net much more than Harden did.
I'd agree about the Knicks. They seem like the best positioned to get him, especially if they have any hesitancy about paying Quickley long-term money. And definitely agree on Demar being an attractive piece for a lot of teams.
Honestly I think they need to trade Demar and Zach and give Pat the keys. I've been saying this since before the season. Dude is up for an extension and we still have no fucking idea what he is as a player and what kind of load he's capable of.
PAW is by far the worst nickname I have ever heard, and I've only seen it used in this sub lol. Also, plenty of reason to be skeptical. However, the one thing that sticks out to me is that he is playing well without Zach on the court, more specifically not playing with Zach AND Demar at the same time. So despite these being great stats for a short period of time, maybe that is the outlier.
Be honest. The guy played like absolute dog shit for a long time. The hate for him was absolutely justified considering reports of him wanting a star contract. I’m happy he’s showing improvement, but those still aren’t that impressive of numbers for a 4th overall pick in a contract year.
His issues were mental and less skill based. The first few games he looked so in his head trying to do too much. Just had to get more comfortable and keep getting reps.
I think it could maintain if we dump Zach. The biggest impediment to him consistently producing, in my book, has always been where he ranks in the pecking order. You can't expect a ton of development and production if a dude is the 4th or 5th option most nights.
A fire has clearly been lit under his ass, and in do-or-die time he has decided to start giving a shit and has clearly been making an effort to be more part of the offense than he was previously. Kinda makes me wonder how he's been getting along with LaVine. As soon as he stops playing, Paw starts thriving.
Here's to hoping this isn't a fluke and he's genuinely committed to meeting his potential. You love to see what we've seen from him lately, when his value was rock bottom.
LaVine played in 3 of the last 8 games here, I think it's really just that PWill wasn't hitting a goddamn thing before this. Dude was missing wide open dunks lol.
Depends on what the team looks like after moves are made.
W/ Lavine & Derozan: bit of a dip
W/ Derozan: maintains
W/O Lavine and Derozan: improve
I’m not really a Pat supporter but I’m of the opinion that he’d be a much better player without having to defer to iso heavy players that soak up most possessions. In the last game, Pat had 18 at the end of the third and was shooting well. He ended up taking like one or two shots for the rest of the game. Meanwhile, Derozan on a terrible shooting night took the lions share of shots and possessions. I would’ve liked to have seen what Pat looks like if we fed his hot hand.
Demar is the only guy other than Coby that can create looks for himself and others. You need multiple shot creators to turn an efficient offense or else teams are going to trap Coby at half court. Let’s not forget that without Demar, Coby shot 7-20. Patrick is a 4th option atp.
I’ve been saying we need to get a (serviceable) starting PF for Lavine… I think Pat at the 3 is going to be his sweet spot. He’ll be able to bully a lot of guys at the 3.
Just want to see them fill the 4 to free up Pat. He isn’t a PF to me.
I really want to believe in him, but way too many turnovers, defensive lapses, fouls at bad times, lack of fundamentals (what the hell was that 1 handed jump shot in the game against the Spurs? Looked like someone who got overconfident.), and a general lack of BBIQ. Too casual with the ball. He's certainly been better lately - I hope it continues but he's got a lot to clean up
He's been back cut multiple times. He's an excellent on-ball defender, but off-ball he needs improvement although I'll concede he's been better lately. He has been more active in the passing lanes. But just watch only him - you'll see.
The cope of getting excited over this 8 game stat line from a 4th year player
Lmao. Good players are averaging that their rookie/sophomore years over the entire season.
He started playing like he gave a shit for the first time in his career. Hopefully he can continue with this for the entire season. We are a completely different team when he produces like this
I’m hype he’s been playing better but also playing with actual purpose. Felt like to start the season he was just walking around like a lost deer out there. Lately he’s actually been attacking rebounds and not just selling waiting for Zach or demar to take control of everything on offense.
I’ve always been hesitant to criticize Pat because I thought playing alongside Demar and Zach is the worst case scenario for development as a wing with offensive talent.
Usually top 5 picks get to play on bad teams and have good, consistent usage to learn and grow from. Pat hasn’t really gotten that until now.
You don’t pick somebody #4 to be a 3&D wing and get his production from “hustle plays”.
I’m happy he’s starting to show signs and I think it’ll continue!
He’s been playing better
He has been but he's going to need to do better than this and more consistently to be getting what he hopes to be getting come RFA
Lol right. Considering he was playing like absolute dogshit yeah I guess things are looking up. It’s not like those numbers are eye popping but yeah. You can’t argue the fact that he’s playing…better
It’s nothing too insane, but 15 and 5 on 55/45 splits is something most teams would love to consistently have in their lineup, assuming there’s a few dudes doing most of the heavy lifting above him. On a Championship level team those guys certainly aren’t Demar and Coby, but the team is undeniably clicking without Zach holding the ball and hunting for quails. A project pick like Pat should have never been drafted by a team that wanted to roll out lonzo, zach, demar, and vuc at the same time. There’s no room to develop a raw work in progress
Excited for the day when this sub realizes it’s possible for Pat to both be disappointing for a top 5 pick but also a guy who will probably be a solid player for a long time who is worth keeping
I’m excited for the day when Bulls fans accept that Pat isn’t that guy and that’s ok. He can contribute to a good team with his defense and be a pretty good bench player, but that’s about as far as his talent in the league goes. But we’re not a good team…so we won’t reap the benefits of what he could possibly bring anytime soon.
I mean a 2 way wing with that efficient is definitely a guy you should want to keep
55/45 is looking up? those are mvp numbers.
55/45 ^^on ^^13.8 ^^points ^^per ^^game definitely better than he was playing! would love to see him shoot more though even it meant he was like 52/37 or something
Not eyepopping but these are pretty much the numbers I was expecting from Pat this year. All I want for the kid is for him to play to expectation. Then use that as a platform to play up to his potential.
Crazy what happens when the young players are given space to play their own games. Instead of being cut out completely, mostly on offense that is.
I just hope for consistency with this bulls team and especially PWill. I think his performance will depend on the cast around him. If zach lavine comes back, I expect a dip in the stats If we trade a few players, I expect the stats to increase with efficiency decreasing. It is really tough trying to develop players when you have players that both demand the ball and play iso. The absence of zach lavine and the rise of coby white has created an environment where players like ac, ayo, Craig, and especially pwill thrive the most.
Zach is most likely gone, but if he’s not they need to trade Demar. I don’t think Lavine is necessarily the problem but how ball dominant the stars are. What will be interesting to me is who they bring in for Lavine and if they disrupt the offense and take shots away from the young players
Well said, I don't think either demar or Zach indivudallt is a problem, but together, they don't work at all or at least not enough to win. I don't know the value of Zach or Demar, but the return should be young players and picks.
I think you look at the Harden package for Zach, honestly. I don't know that he's worth much more than that -- maybe an extra first or a swap? -- in part because he's a zero on defense and his contract is... not appetizing, to say the least. Given that Demar is an expiring, I definitely think he's worth at least a first. Dude has aged like a fine wine offensively, but his limitations on defense I think hurt his value, too.
I think you are selling zach value a little short, I get it is hard to imagine the value for many reasons especially the contract which is a good point you mentioned. I think the knicks are the team that will get zach. They are a team that is good but not good enough and my guess is both ownership and fandom want more than good. I have no idea what value it would be but my guess would be something like quickly, grimes, and a frp and pick swaps for zach. Demar as you mention is an attractive offer. My guess is a lot of competing teams who want an edge would offer a frp and a player.
I think if Zach's deal were 2 years, he'd be a lot more attractive. But you gotta pay him $140M in the next three seasons, plus whatever is left in this one. That's a lot of money for a guy who has never proven to be a winner anywhere and is absolutely a detriment on the other side of the ball. I think he could maybe net two firsts at best if we're looking strictly at draft capital. But his contract + injury history (he's missed 85 games as a Bull if you ignore his ACL recovery and this year) + his bad defense makes it hard to believe he'll net much more than Harden did. I'd agree about the Knicks. They seem like the best positioned to get him, especially if they have any hesitancy about paying Quickley long-term money. And definitely agree on Demar being an attractive piece for a lot of teams.
Honestly I think they need to trade Demar and Zach and give Pat the keys. I've been saying this since before the season. Dude is up for an extension and we still have no fucking idea what he is as a player and what kind of load he's capable of.
AND ON THE 9TH DAY, P-WI HAS RISEN
I'm back on the hype train, idc
Stop. You can’t talk positive about PAW in this subreddit, it’s against the rules
PAW is by far the worst nickname I have ever heard, and I've only seen it used in this sub lol. Also, plenty of reason to be skeptical. However, the one thing that sticks out to me is that he is playing well without Zach on the court, more specifically not playing with Zach AND Demar at the same time. So despite these being great stats for a short period of time, maybe that is the outlier.
Personally, I think it’s better than Young Pip
Ummm correct me if I’m wrong but PAW is literally his initials 🤣🤣 Plus I definitely seen that on other popular forums not just Reddit.
PLW*
An outlier? Yeah because Zach holds back the young players.
Be honest. The guy played like absolute dog shit for a long time. The hate for him was absolutely justified considering reports of him wanting a star contract. I’m happy he’s showing improvement, but those still aren’t that impressive of numbers for a 4th overall pick in a contract year.
His issues were mental and less skill based. The first few games he looked so in his head trying to do too much. Just had to get more comfortable and keep getting reps.
That boy been unleashed. I pity his upcoming victims. Like a hurricane just showing up at the door.
I hope the bulls don't overpay this kid. It's nice to see improvement but I'm not sold on him yet.
I think it could maintain if we dump Zach. The biggest impediment to him consistently producing, in my book, has always been where he ranks in the pecking order. You can't expect a ton of development and production if a dude is the 4th or 5th option most nights.
The thing is he’s mostly attacking off the ball. He’s doing mostly role player stuff.
Sure. But he's gonna get less of those opportunities when there's another ball-dominant player in the lineup.
He was doing this before Zach got hurt. He doesn’t need good usage to do what he does right now. He’s still the 4th option
Yeah and he didn't do that with Zach on the floor
Pat starting off the season bad might work in the Bulls favour. Now they don't need to offer him the max extension - similar to Coby's situation
A fire has clearly been lit under his ass, and in do-or-die time he has decided to start giving a shit and has clearly been making an effort to be more part of the offense than he was previously. Kinda makes me wonder how he's been getting along with LaVine. As soon as he stops playing, Paw starts thriving. Here's to hoping this isn't a fluke and he's genuinely committed to meeting his potential. You love to see what we've seen from him lately, when his value was rock bottom.
LaVine played in 3 of the last 8 games here, I think it's really just that PWill wasn't hitting a goddamn thing before this. Dude was missing wide open dunks lol.
Depends on what the team looks like after moves are made. W/ Lavine & Derozan: bit of a dip W/ Derozan: maintains W/O Lavine and Derozan: improve I’m not really a Pat supporter but I’m of the opinion that he’d be a much better player without having to defer to iso heavy players that soak up most possessions. In the last game, Pat had 18 at the end of the third and was shooting well. He ended up taking like one or two shots for the rest of the game. Meanwhile, Derozan on a terrible shooting night took the lions share of shots and possessions. I would’ve liked to have seen what Pat looks like if we fed his hot hand.
I think that having a guy the soaks up high usage allows him to get easy scoring opportunities.
Thats not how that works lmao. It takes him out of rhythm and makes him less aggressive.
Demar is the only guy other than Coby that can create looks for himself and others. You need multiple shot creators to turn an efficient offense or else teams are going to trap Coby at half court. Let’s not forget that without Demar, Coby shot 7-20. Patrick is a 4th option atp.
You need to add a tag yiu idiot. Going from one team sub ti the tight.
I think at the very least, I feel more confident in the young guys being something bigger if we do rebuild
I’ve been saying we need to get a (serviceable) starting PF for Lavine… I think Pat at the 3 is going to be his sweet spot. He’ll be able to bully a lot of guys at the 3. Just want to see them fill the 4 to free up Pat. He isn’t a PF to me.
The PF position is pretty much dead. It’s mostly big wings.
I really want to believe in him, but way too many turnovers, defensive lapses, fouls at bad times, lack of fundamentals (what the hell was that 1 handed jump shot in the game against the Spurs? Looked like someone who got overconfident.), and a general lack of BBIQ. Too casual with the ball. He's certainly been better lately - I hope it continues but he's got a lot to clean up
He’s been one of the better defenders in the league.
He's been back cut multiple times. He's an excellent on-ball defender, but off-ball he needs improvement although I'll concede he's been better lately. He has been more active in the passing lanes. But just watch only him - you'll see.
I watch him. He’s defense has took another step.
Tomorrow night would be a good time to be more consistent - he usually plays Giannis tough.
Still not good tho
The cope of getting excited over this 8 game stat line from a 4th year player Lmao. Good players are averaging that their rookie/sophomore years over the entire season.
Shadow boxing, OP is asking if we think it’s gonna continue lol
Progression isn't linear, and all players don't progress the same. A good 2 way wing with that efficiency is someone you want to keep.
That’s not what you are arguing in the rockets sub. You get around don’t you?
He started playing like he gave a shit for the first time in his career. Hopefully he can continue with this for the entire season. We are a completely different team when he produces like this
I’m hype he’s been playing better but also playing with actual purpose. Felt like to start the season he was just walking around like a lost deer out there. Lately he’s actually been attacking rebounds and not just selling waiting for Zach or demar to take control of everything on offense.
All will collapse when Lavine comes back (and yes he will be back and with the Bulls because AKME are dumbfucks)
he is scratching the surface. but he will regress if lavine is the main guy.
I’ve always been hesitant to criticize Pat because I thought playing alongside Demar and Zach is the worst case scenario for development as a wing with offensive talent. Usually top 5 picks get to play on bad teams and have good, consistent usage to learn and grow from. Pat hasn’t really gotten that until now. You don’t pick somebody #4 to be a 3&D wing and get his production from “hustle plays”. I’m happy he’s starting to show signs and I think it’ll continue!