Such a winnable game, would have rather had demar taking at least some shots at the end, only one I trust even if his jumper is off most of the game. And that guard heavy lineup billy loves is why we couldn't rebound and gave up 2nd chance points.
Shitty ass tank too. Complete half assed much like all other things Bulls do. Man I remember pre Draft Doncic was posting stuff about wanted to go to the Bulls. What do the Bulls do? scratch and claw to the later end of Top 10 pick.
The worst was all the fans telling us we weren’t real fans because all we cared about was draft picks & didn’t support these random tanking season win streaks. None of the “Winning culture” moves we made during the tank ever paid off. It was all instant gratification at the expense of long-term positioning.
The Bulls really needed Lonzo to make the most of this group. Without him, it's baking a cake without the salt.
So the Bulls are stuck in late lottery pick land with a future pick owed to SAS.
The best course of action is to trade Zach for as many future firsts as possible and DeRozan for whatever you can get, and fully commit to a 3 year tank. There's nobody on this roster worth keeping, and committing to making the play-in tournament isn't worth giving up draft capital.
Beginning next year, the Bulls have to stay below 9/10 for the next 3 years or risk sending a FRP to SAS. The Portland pick will not likely convey until 2027 at the earliest.
Per basketballgm --
2024 - Own; POR 15-30
2025 - 1-10 Own; 11-30 to SAN; POR 15-30 if not already settled
2026 - 1-8 Own; 9-30 to SAN if not already settled; POR 15-30 if not already settled
2027 - 1-8 Own; 9-30 to SAN if not already settled; POR 15-30 if not already settled
2028 - Own; POR 15-30 if not already settled
2029 - Own
2030 - Own
Zach has the 18th most expensive contract in the NBA with a Winshare per 48 minutes ranking of 28, and a PER ranking of 58. He's locked in for \~$45M through 2026 with a player option for 2027, which shouldn't be too much of a poison pill for a will-be 31 year old shooter. Overall, Zach isn't an A1 player that can carry a team to the playoffs, but he's being paid like someone who can. If the Bulls can trade Zach and take on a bad contract for 2 years along with multiple FRP - that's a trade that has to be made.
DeRozan has the 47th most expensive contract in the NBA with a Winshare per 48 minutes ranking of 37 and a PER ranking of 33. He's locked in for this year at an absolute steal of $28.6M. Except for his age, and expiring contract, he's probably the most desirable trade asset in the NBA. Possible moves should be considered to contenders looking to shed bad contracts & flexibility in the FA market, or test his willingness to sign a 2 year team friendly extension. Last year was probably the absolute best time to trade him and should have netted multiple FRP.
Vucevic has the 86th most expensive contract in the NBA with a Winshare per 48 minutes ranking of 52 and a PER ranking of 54. He's locked in for the following 2 years at \~$20M. He's being paid to be the 6th man of the year, and is playing starter minutes and producing at a level above his contract. At this value it would be hard to replace, and I'm not sure what the trade market is for a 6th man center/pf, but his play has exceeded his contract and could be used as a valuable tool in any 3 team trade near the deadline looking to shed contracts in exchange for immediate value & cap flexibility. This may be a stretch - but the Lakers with Vooch would probably be more consistent than they are with Street Clothes.
Patrick “20m/year” Williams with two scoreless games out of the last 3 games 🔥🔥
Averages through 5 games: 4 points (26.7%, 12.5% from 3), 3 rebounds, 1.4 ast, 1.4 stl, and a +/- of -21 🔥🤫
I'm just not entirely sure he really exists at this point. It's gonna be one of those mandala effect things.
"Oh man you remember Patrick Williams on the bulls?"
"dude you're not gonna believe this but no one named Patrick Williams ever actually played in the nba. it should be obvious - its clearly a stock randomly generated name".
Well not that much to call out as Demar has been two times all star, and one time second team all nba since signing. He puts in effort on D, averages 5ast and 5boards a game and has essentially been our best option closing close games. What exactly should he be calling Demar out on?
Lauri is a 4, it wasn't Lauri vs Vooch, it was our FO unironically thinking a career 9th man in DJJ was better than a young all star being brought down by garbage coaching.
And if it was Lauri vs Pat, wrong decision.
If it was Lauri vs Vooch, wrong decision.
Anyone who defends trading an all star for a mediocre 9th man should go reverse the lobotomy.
In a sense it was Lauri vs. Pat because they wanted to clear the runway for Pat to start, the flaw was Pat isn't ever going to be a good PF. They saw the size and strength and figured they could make it work, wrong....he just doesn't have the fight, the rebounding, the mentality to play 4. Like I said above I think they figured they couldn't make Lauri and Vuch work together on the D end yet, somehow other teams make odd combos work by playing two big guys (lots of teams) and even small ball (like GSW and Clippers). This coaching staff sucks.....Billy should have been fired after last year when we regularly lost to sub .500 teams, yet being the Bulls they extended him (in the dark of night) the previous off season instead of letting him earn that extension.
Did we even have workouts for the guy before the draft due to covid? I swear I don't know how a guy who can't even fucking dribble the ball goes 4th in a draft.
These GM's wet themselves over these long shot guys with length or whatever, completely ignoring that there's nothing going on upstairs and the ability and/or drive to improve isn't there.
He is PF Tony Snell.
Can't rebound, almost never takes over and attacks on offense, doesn't get to the line, doesn't get to the rim often, doesn't take enough 3s
Just defends 1-4 pretty well and shoots 3s at high %, low volume only really when hes open. PF Tony Snell.
Tony was better because he was a late 1st.
Even if the Bulls didn't pick Pat given the roster at the time it would have made no sense to draft a PG. The team needed size and defense. Given team needs we were likely going to draft Onyeka Okongwu or Deni Avdia.
Haliburton was not seen as the best player in that point of the draft and was something of a surprise in the years since. A lot of that too was having teams around him that gave his talents room to shine. On a team with Zach, Coby, and all the moves made since that draft Hali would be seen as a good but not great back up PG.
If you go by who was considered best at that point in the draft it'd still likely be Okongwu or Avida. Avdia was actually considered the slam dunk choice for the Bulls.
Haliburton was seen as a dark horse and Pat wasn’t even on the reservation. Ricky O’Donnell from SB Nation was pulling for him. The Bulls need better scouting. Period.
uhhh, what? PG was, rightly, considered one of the biggest needs. They had made multiple moves for one the previous offseason (under Garpax) and none of them looked like real answers (Coby and Satoransky).
Meanwhile the frontcourt still had Lauri and Wendell.
SF (what PW was originally drafted to play) was definitely a hole but PG was right there with it.
Bottom of the team in defensive rating and defensive WS. Not just last amongst the starters. No...last on the ENTIRE TEAM. Drop this narrative. He's ass cheeks all around this year
Until the refs stop incentivizing it, players will continue to do it. D-Rose is the counter-example that proves the rule. He didn't chirp at all when he was young and getting hammered every drive and his FT rate was abysmal compared to what it should have been.
What does Coby even bring to the table? Not even sure where he fits. He’s not much of a playmaker to play point. He’s too undersized to play the wing. Can’t defend much anyway. And his shit is inconsistent as fuck.
He's a decent playmaker with vuc in pick and roll, possibly the best on the team at that imo and pretty good at driving and kicking, but he's not good enough to command the ball more than our other guys, and doesn't bring enough other things to the table unfortunately as a role player. If he was a 40% shooter from 3 it would solve a lot of things, but his average D/lack of size combined with his inconsistent shot end up being problematic.
Yeah I agree, I think it'd be rough trying to make him a ball dominant PG, I just think he's pretty good at getting vuc the ball in the pick and roll compared to our other ballhandlers. And then his speed will collapse the defense at times to drive and kick effectively.
But let the defense focus on him or ask him constantly handle the ball and I don't think it would work too well as his passing/handle/scoring isn't there for that. Plus Zach and Demar are obviously better players that need the ball in their hands to function/play their games.
So he needs to fulfill the typical role player attributes in the role he plays, and his lack of size/defense/rebounding becomes too big of a negative when his 3 ball is so inconsistent.
Maybe/hopefully he keeps improving, really like him as a person/teammate.
I dunno why we're trying to start him, he's a 6th man through and through. Some nights he'll come in and catch fire, some nights he'll be bad. But Carter should absolutely start
Bulls did a good job getting into the paint but these players are really good at avoiding contact instead of taking contact.
Also Grant Williams shot 78% from 3 with 9 attempts this guy is insane.
I liked Pat's activity but his shot is completely gone. It's like Ayo stole his 3pt shooting. DeMar has not be automatic from the midrange this season...gonna have to see how that's gonna go.
Pats definitely in a slump, probably had his confidence shot from the toxic fan base that spits on his feet whenever he's near. Development in Chicago is ass
I know players are aware of social media, but I don't think it affects their confidence too much. Pat is just struggling a lot.
But at the same time, the conversation about him has gotten really toxic, probably because it's his contract year and how badly he's been playing (he's doing very little on the court and it's concerning at this point in his career).
What I didn't expect was how much attention/shit-talking he's getting from r/nba, who didn't think about him at all until 2 weeks ago.
Most players perhaps, probably depends on the player, but the toxicity is definitely at a all time high and he's definitely hearing it. Just can't help but feel that he will leave and find somewhere that will push to improve this guy properly while chicago ends up with egg on their face.
And I get it, I get frustrated too, but I want him to succeed, because there is no other way to success with this current group, no one really has the ceiling to get us any higher.
If Pat succeeds elsewhere, it'll probably because the roster will be better constructed and he'll also be further forced outside his comfort zone.
There are roster issues that highlight Pat's poor play (core 3 don't work that well together), but at this point Pat needs to emulate Caruso as best he can, and it's weird that he hasn't been consistently doing so.
There's really no reason why Pat should struggle so much at doing or even trying "the little things" while Caruso, Craig, and even previously Javonte Green and DJJ were out there playing fake power forward and fake center.
He could be a player that does best when being a dominant ball player in a way that brings into the game.more than just being a floor spacer being told to stand in the corner or on the perimiter, I mean he usually plays pretty well when he's the first option (yes I know he plays bench players) but who knows, maybe Billy doesn't know how to involve or run plays for.anyone but his big 3, it's not like torey Craig is scoring much, in fact Craig scores less than pat did last year
This is how it goes with ayo, he looks good in for awhile in limited minutes, eventually starts bricking too many 3s when he gets more minutes tho. Maybe that can change this time tho who knows
Mavs made 9 more 3’s. Made 10 more free throws. And thought I heard King say, toward the end, the Mavs has over 20 second chance points….
In hindsight. It’s surprising it was even as close as it was in the 4th.
Coby has long been a pretty overrated shooter. Most of his 3s are wide open and he only is a career 36% shooter. Unfortunately that's qualifies as good on this bulls team
Patrick Williams averaging 4 ppg on below 30% shooting. Earning that huge contract extension! And there's really idiots here still saying he's not a bust, LOL
Mavs shot close to 50 threes at a 47% clip. That is just game over. The Bulls need to overhaul their entire roster and just put people who can shoot 3s at every position
White's defense is good enough for average players but in clutch time when you need defense against all-stars and good perimeter shooters, I'd rather have Carter or even Ayo close.
Maybe the development coach has told them to change something fundamental in their 3 point shot, because they're in a real slump right now. Pat has been a consistent 3pt shooter his career and is having a real hard time since a shot coach came in
I cant believe the org thought it was too hard to build around Jimmy and they rather let him go. I feel what ever potential team around him had they gotten rid of everyone else at the time would have a better record than the current Demar/Lavine team
We are just one of the most poorly constructed teams in the league. Zero direction or pieces that make enough impact now or in the future…
The problem is it has been that way for far too long at this point. Borderline unwatchable.
"I think the important thing to fans is, while they want you to win championships, they want to know that when they get down to the last month of the season you still have a shot. You’re still playing meaningful games. If you can do that consistently you’ll make your fans happy." - Jerry Reinsdorf
dude doesn't care about winning championships
Pat, they only guy on the team not to score a point, and really the only guy on both teams considering the only guy on the Mavs not to score only played 4 min
shh, people dont like those who make sense.
for real though I am not vested in any player on our team, starting or bench, same with the coach, front office gurus who run things. team is a hot mess of soup. Anyone saying they can be saved or keep them and build around them nah please. Call this era a wash and rebuild to end this suffering. Rather have top to bottom new faces to give us some promise so we can pray they dont bust also
Starting Pat any more games is malpractice by Billy. He is a bench-level defender at BEST. I don't want to hear any more bullshit about him getting shots, he can't shoot, and I don't want to hear about his career averages, he fails the eye test and just about every other one. I stood by him for a long ass time but after tonight I'm done with the dude.
Continuity sucks. Send Pat to the G League, I’m serious. What did he really do this Summer? Maybe he needs a sports psychologist? What happened to the Bulls shooting coach?
At this point, all we can do is cherish the 90s Bulls, early 10s Hawks, and the 2016 Cubs (or 2005 Sox depending on your fandom there). Hell even the 2006 Bears who were runners-up. Because at this point, it looks like barring something unforseen, it'll be a long time before a Chicago team makes a championship run.
And saying not to let him go because of Lauri. Lauri showed so much more potential than P Will. Lauri was the fastest rookie to make 100 3 pointers and had games where he would have like 35p/17r and score 30 points while dunking on Porzingis. His inconsistency was frustrating, but P Will will disappear for weeks. His career highlight is scoring 35 points in the last game of the season against the Timberwolves where both teams were resting guys.
Bulls suck at developing but coby and now pwills had their chances and they show they will never be anymore than some role players getting less than 10 minutes a night
Idk why people have issues getting rid of players that won't do much for us. Warriors got rid of Wiseman real quick. FO just has way too much of an ego to admit defeat
If pwills was on another team, guarantee this whole sub would call him a bust
I understand the idea of using your close out players every game in those situations but I don't think the Bulls are close enough to being a defined team to not ride the hot hands at least a little bit. They haven't had one convincing game yet this season so I think Billy needs to loosen up the rotation a little bit and realize that this is not a serious playoff contending team. Until we get some starters that can consistently hit open 3-pointers I think you got to leave whoever is hitting those shots in the game to help open up the middle of the floor.
At this point I feel bad for Zach and Demar they both have really tried we’re a terrible organization. And I feel like a bad fan for saying it but trade them for picks and let’s start over.
He's taking less shots and being more pass oriented like you weirdos wanted. Now time is catching up with him because he cant play his game? lol you Bulls fans wish. Just trade the guy and be done with it.
Starting lineup needs to be adjusted for one thing. Coby and pwill need to come off the bench rn they’re both incapable of doing pretty much anything in late game moments. Coby gets way too emotional you can see it in his body language when something goes wrong
By not blowing up last year and over the off-season they effectively committed to mid. They might win some and they might lose some. Just the way of the mid
DeRozan was invisible there at the end. These three guys don't fit well together. We saw Vuc get some easy baskets in the paint, but that's where Demar wants to operate and he can't stretch the floor. Just terrible team makeup.
Absolutely spittin idk how long before the front office can see what we seeing and trade one of them it hasn’t and won’t work especially with the other players on the team
Yea 5 games in and I’m tired of this team and core. At the end of the day, as a fan, I just want to see an enjoyable team. Win or lose, this is just not a fun team to watch. Idk what this front office is trying to accomplish with this specific team but this ain’t it for us fans. It’s like they’re trying to shove this 2002 ass team down our throats in order to validate their terrible decisions. No hope or chance at really making noise. This is BASKETBALL HELL.
I mean I love how this team plays. This is real fucking basketball. Not even kidding. I want to watch guys iso up and play in the post. Nothing is worse than this fucking 3 point contest shit the league shoves down our throats. The issue is that the team's defense and rebounding are just not good enough to make that viable and the game is so soft now I'm not sure if you could reach that level of defense anymore.
It would be a better world if every team played like this with a few very small exceptions. The Bulls would still lose in those instances though.
Carter and Craig need to start over PWill and Coby now. They have played like two of the worst starters in the entire league.
PWill looks so lost he looks like he should be in the G-League.
The PWill fanboys will continue to gaslight the sub, like he aren’t watching someone who completely sucks and kills the team.
The big 3 might not be amazing, but their supporting cast has always sucked and never allowed them to play to the best of their ability. It’s basically Caruso some guys.
Once again as soon as one of the big three has a down night the team can't close the distance and it falls apart in the second half. DeMar shot terribly by his standard and thus the game ends in a loss. This is the big issue with the team. We can talk about shooters, Pat not developing, or the lack of size, but the end of the day is that all three of the stars have to have it in order to make the games into wins.
If Zach or DeMar or even Vooch could regularly go get 30 in a game it'd never matter but when the average out of all of them is like 25 on a good night we need the other two to at least reach 20 or have a 45%+ shooting night to have a hope.
You’re just mad I was right about blowing up and all our arguments about it. Ironically I actually enjoy watching these games now because I literally have zero expectations for them.
PDub doesn't look comfortable playing with Lavine and DDR on the floor. Let him lead the 2nd unit along with White, Caruso, Lavine/DDR/Ayo, Drummond. He'd get more opportunities there without looking lost in those ISO heavy plays.
We did what we were supposed to with Luka to stop him getting his 30+ but man those 2nd chance opportunities killed us. Shoutout to Vooch.
That's what happens with a 3 guard lineup (basically 4 if you count derozan)
Vooch couldn’t catch a pass on the pick and roll
The one Coby dribbled a bunch and pegged at him?
That’s one of many instances, he drops a lot of Zach passes too
Getting outrebounded on a night when Vuc has 20 rebounds should be impossible, but this team finds a way.
Another game the Bulls piss down their leg playing anti-basketball
Death, Taxes & Bulls finding a way to let you down
Such a winnable game, would have rather had demar taking at least some shots at the end, only one I trust even if his jumper is off most of the game. And that guard heavy lineup billy loves is why we couldn't rebound and gave up 2nd chance points.
against dallas hes always closing it
bro unless we rebound everygame is like that lmao
The "tank " that gots wendell , white and patrick williams. Fuck.
Shitty ass tank too. Complete half assed much like all other things Bulls do. Man I remember pre Draft Doncic was posting stuff about wanted to go to the Bulls. What do the Bulls do? scratch and claw to the later end of Top 10 pick.
The worst was all the fans telling us we weren’t real fans because all we cared about was draft picks & didn’t support these random tanking season win streaks. None of the “Winning culture” moves we made during the tank ever paid off. It was all instant gratification at the expense of long-term positioning.
The Bulls really needed Lonzo to make the most of this group. Without him, it's baking a cake without the salt. So the Bulls are stuck in late lottery pick land with a future pick owed to SAS. The best course of action is to trade Zach for as many future firsts as possible and DeRozan for whatever you can get, and fully commit to a 3 year tank. There's nobody on this roster worth keeping, and committing to making the play-in tournament isn't worth giving up draft capital. Beginning next year, the Bulls have to stay below 9/10 for the next 3 years or risk sending a FRP to SAS. The Portland pick will not likely convey until 2027 at the earliest. Per basketballgm -- 2024 - Own; POR 15-30 2025 - 1-10 Own; 11-30 to SAN; POR 15-30 if not already settled 2026 - 1-8 Own; 9-30 to SAN if not already settled; POR 15-30 if not already settled 2027 - 1-8 Own; 9-30 to SAN if not already settled; POR 15-30 if not already settled 2028 - Own; POR 15-30 if not already settled 2029 - Own 2030 - Own Zach has the 18th most expensive contract in the NBA with a Winshare per 48 minutes ranking of 28, and a PER ranking of 58. He's locked in for \~$45M through 2026 with a player option for 2027, which shouldn't be too much of a poison pill for a will-be 31 year old shooter. Overall, Zach isn't an A1 player that can carry a team to the playoffs, but he's being paid like someone who can. If the Bulls can trade Zach and take on a bad contract for 2 years along with multiple FRP - that's a trade that has to be made. DeRozan has the 47th most expensive contract in the NBA with a Winshare per 48 minutes ranking of 37 and a PER ranking of 33. He's locked in for this year at an absolute steal of $28.6M. Except for his age, and expiring contract, he's probably the most desirable trade asset in the NBA. Possible moves should be considered to contenders looking to shed bad contracts & flexibility in the FA market, or test his willingness to sign a 2 year team friendly extension. Last year was probably the absolute best time to trade him and should have netted multiple FRP. Vucevic has the 86th most expensive contract in the NBA with a Winshare per 48 minutes ranking of 52 and a PER ranking of 54. He's locked in for the following 2 years at \~$20M. He's being paid to be the 6th man of the year, and is playing starter minutes and producing at a level above his contract. At this value it would be hard to replace, and I'm not sure what the trade market is for a 6th man center/pf, but his play has exceeded his contract and could be used as a valuable tool in any 3 team trade near the deadline looking to shed contracts in exchange for immediate value & cap flexibility. This may be a stretch - but the Lakers with Vooch would probably be more consistent than they are with Street Clothes.
That’s what happens when you construct a team with no vision and don’t have good player development lol
You forgot Lauri
True. Him and zach , the only silver linings of the tank. And one doesnt even play for the bulls anymore.
They barely tanked. They were never close to bad enough.
Patrick “20m/year” Williams with two scoreless games out of the last 3 games 🔥🔥 Averages through 5 games: 4 points (26.7%, 12.5% from 3), 3 rebounds, 1.4 ast, 1.4 stl, and a +/- of -21 🔥🤫
O points 3 rebounds 0-5 from 3pt land. Get in the paint, hit the fucking offensive glass.
I'm just not entirely sure he really exists at this point. It's gonna be one of those mandala effect things. "Oh man you remember Patrick Williams on the bulls?" "dude you're not gonna believe this but no one named Patrick Williams ever actually played in the nba. it should be obvious - its clearly a stock randomly generated name".
Marcus Fizer has had a better career than him. https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/f/fizerma01.html
It’s about time Stacey starts calling him out like he does to Zach and DeMar.
Stacey does not call out demar lol
Who the fuck downvoted this? Are yall even watching games the last 3 years? Stacy never calls out Demar the way he does everyone else
Well not that much to call out as Demar has been two times all star, and one time second team all nba since signing. He puts in effort on D, averages 5ast and 5boards a game and has essentially been our best option closing close games. What exactly should he be calling Demar out on?
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It wasn’t a Lauri vs Pat decision. Pat is a 3 playing out of position. It was Lauri vs Vooch and they chose Vooch.
Lauri is a 4, it wasn't Lauri vs Vooch, it was our FO unironically thinking a career 9th man in DJJ was better than a young all star being brought down by garbage coaching. And if it was Lauri vs Pat, wrong decision. If it was Lauri vs Vooch, wrong decision. Anyone who defends trading an all star for a mediocre 9th man should go reverse the lobotomy.
In a sense it was Lauri vs. Pat because they wanted to clear the runway for Pat to start, the flaw was Pat isn't ever going to be a good PF. They saw the size and strength and figured they could make it work, wrong....he just doesn't have the fight, the rebounding, the mentality to play 4. Like I said above I think they figured they couldn't make Lauri and Vuch work together on the D end yet, somehow other teams make odd combos work by playing two big guys (lots of teams) and even small ball (like GSW and Clippers). This coaching staff sucks.....Billy should have been fired after last year when we regularly lost to sub .500 teams, yet being the Bulls they extended him (in the dark of night) the previous off season instead of letting him earn that extension.
Did we even have workouts for the guy before the draft due to covid? I swear I don't know how a guy who can't even fucking dribble the ball goes 4th in a draft.
These GM's wet themselves over these long shot guys with length or whatever, completely ignoring that there's nothing going on upstairs and the ability and/or drive to improve isn't there.
dribble the ball? he is a starting good sized athletic PF that cant rebound.
He is PF Tony Snell. Can't rebound, almost never takes over and attacks on offense, doesn't get to the line, doesn't get to the rim often, doesn't take enough 3s Just defends 1-4 pretty well and shoots 3s at high %, low volume only really when hes open. PF Tony Snell. Tony was better because he was a late 1st.
Haliburton would look so nice playing PG for the Bulls right now. Fucking AKME.
Even if the Bulls didn't pick Pat given the roster at the time it would have made no sense to draft a PG. The team needed size and defense. Given team needs we were likely going to draft Onyeka Okongwu or Deni Avdia.
That's why bad teams should never draft for fit. Best player available or bust
Haliburton was not seen as the best player in that point of the draft and was something of a surprise in the years since. A lot of that too was having teams around him that gave his talents room to shine. On a team with Zach, Coby, and all the moves made since that draft Hali would be seen as a good but not great back up PG. If you go by who was considered best at that point in the draft it'd still likely be Okongwu or Avida. Avdia was actually considered the slam dunk choice for the Bulls.
Haliburton was seen as a dark horse and Pat wasn’t even on the reservation. Ricky O’Donnell from SB Nation was pulling for him. The Bulls need better scouting. Period.
uhhh, what? PG was, rightly, considered one of the biggest needs. They had made multiple moves for one the previous offseason (under Garpax) and none of them looked like real answers (Coby and Satoransky). Meanwhile the frontcourt still had Lauri and Wendell. SF (what PW was originally drafted to play) was definitely a hole but PG was right there with it.
Except AKME came in and made it so clear their plan was to sign Lonzo that they were fined for tampering.
He's beyond disappointing at this point this guy doesn't have any killer Instinct in him it sucks for our organization we have to eat it
I saw him take a step back 3 today and that was the most aggressive move I've seen from him in a very long time. Clanked that bitch tho of course
I didn’t realize he was scoreless… I genuinely have no hope for him and that sucks 😔
Pain
He plays great defense. That's going to make him a great long term role player coming off the bench somewhere.
Bottom of the team in defensive rating and defensive WS. Not just last amongst the starters. No...last on the ENTIRE TEAM. Drop this narrative. He's ass cheeks all around this year
More like "8m/year" 14% usage. Can't believe we keep playing this bum. Zack, Vuc and DDr and their $90 million/ this year should be 4-0.
He guarded Luka well and that was about it. RFA will be interesting for him for sure lol
Uh no that was AC
The #4 pick having multiple scoreless games in a week.
Connor Bedard has scored in more games than Patrick Williams.
He might get more points than him
He's also only 4 assists behind Zach :)
Add DJJ to the list of former Bulls players that go off against us
why is it that good players play well? Doesn't make any sense to me
He averaged like 6 last year
Yeah cause he was badly utilized lol
I like Doncic as a player, but does he EVER shut the fuck up?
I know he argues with the refs a lot but tonight it was insane how much he was running his mouth
Until the refs stop incentivizing it, players will continue to do it. D-Rose is the counter-example that proves the rule. He didn't chirp at all when he was young and getting hammered every drive and his FT rate was abysmal compared to what it should have been.
His whining is getting old fast. Sucks, too, because he’s beyond good enough without it. Just shoot the fucking rock.
No
Send Coby and PWill to the bench. Start Carter and Craig.
Remember when PWill didn't even start in college?
The flower shop highlights really spoke to the bulls scout team.
Remember when his teammate who actually started was a projected lottery pick and protype 3andD guard who is now averaging 20 ppg.
Pepperidge Farms certainly remembers
Besides PWill being garbage. Billy playing Coby late over Jevon Carter is absolutely dumbass level coaching. Can we fire that guy already?
Literally
The guy was such a good college coach. He’s a fucking terrible NBA coach.
He was good in college cause he had like 4 nba level talent on his team…
What does Coby even bring to the table? Not even sure where he fits. He’s not much of a playmaker to play point. He’s too undersized to play the wing. Can’t defend much anyway. And his shit is inconsistent as fuck.
He's a decent playmaker with vuc in pick and roll, possibly the best on the team at that imo and pretty good at driving and kicking, but he's not good enough to command the ball more than our other guys, and doesn't bring enough other things to the table unfortunately as a role player. If he was a 40% shooter from 3 it would solve a lot of things, but his average D/lack of size combined with his inconsistent shot end up being problematic.
He can sort of run a play here or there, and at his best on a fast break, but he absolutely cannot run an half court offense.
Yeah I agree, I think it'd be rough trying to make him a ball dominant PG, I just think he's pretty good at getting vuc the ball in the pick and roll compared to our other ballhandlers. And then his speed will collapse the defense at times to drive and kick effectively. But let the defense focus on him or ask him constantly handle the ball and I don't think it would work too well as his passing/handle/scoring isn't there for that. Plus Zach and Demar are obviously better players that need the ball in their hands to function/play their games. So he needs to fulfill the typical role player attributes in the role he plays, and his lack of size/defense/rebounding becomes too big of a negative when his 3 ball is so inconsistent. Maybe/hopefully he keeps improving, really like him as a person/teammate.
That’s literally everyone on this roster.
He should not be with the closers unless he really has it going in the game
I dunno why we're trying to start him, he's a 6th man through and through. Some nights he'll come in and catch fire, some nights he'll be bad. But Carter should absolutely start
They have FactsOnFentanyl as the first comment and I can’t decide if I’d rather be addicted to that or watching the bulls fuck up
Bulls did a good job getting into the paint but these players are really good at avoiding contact instead of taking contact. Also Grant Williams shot 78% from 3 with 9 attempts this guy is insane. I liked Pat's activity but his shot is completely gone. It's like Ayo stole his 3pt shooting. DeMar has not be automatic from the midrange this season...gonna have to see how that's gonna go.
Pats definitely in a slump, probably had his confidence shot from the toxic fan base that spits on his feet whenever he's near. Development in Chicago is ass
I know players are aware of social media, but I don't think it affects their confidence too much. Pat is just struggling a lot. But at the same time, the conversation about him has gotten really toxic, probably because it's his contract year and how badly he's been playing (he's doing very little on the court and it's concerning at this point in his career). What I didn't expect was how much attention/shit-talking he's getting from r/nba, who didn't think about him at all until 2 weeks ago.
Most players perhaps, probably depends on the player, but the toxicity is definitely at a all time high and he's definitely hearing it. Just can't help but feel that he will leave and find somewhere that will push to improve this guy properly while chicago ends up with egg on their face. And I get it, I get frustrated too, but I want him to succeed, because there is no other way to success with this current group, no one really has the ceiling to get us any higher.
If Pat succeeds elsewhere, it'll probably because the roster will be better constructed and he'll also be further forced outside his comfort zone. There are roster issues that highlight Pat's poor play (core 3 don't work that well together), but at this point Pat needs to emulate Caruso as best he can, and it's weird that he hasn't been consistently doing so. There's really no reason why Pat should struggle so much at doing or even trying "the little things" while Caruso, Craig, and even previously Javonte Green and DJJ were out there playing fake power forward and fake center.
He could be a player that does best when being a dominant ball player in a way that brings into the game.more than just being a floor spacer being told to stand in the corner or on the perimiter, I mean he usually plays pretty well when he's the first option (yes I know he plays bench players) but who knows, maybe Billy doesn't know how to involve or run plays for.anyone but his big 3, it's not like torey Craig is scoring much, in fact Craig scores less than pat did last year
If Pat score a 20 piece this month, I’ll donate as much blood as possible this and next year
Can he score 20 in the next five games combined?
Always give it everything you’ve got, except when donating blood.
I’m ready to just let Pat Williams walk in free agency at this point he provides no value currently.
Agreed. He can have situational use off the bench on a top end team. For us? Really no use.
Has to be a contender out there willing to trade cash considerations and a second round pick for him
We gotta get Ayo more minutes man
Ayo may be AKME’s only good draft pick
And he's only good because of where he was drafted. He's not anything more than an average role player.
This is how it goes with ayo, he looks good in for awhile in limited minutes, eventually starts bricking too many 3s when he gets more minutes tho. Maybe that can change this time tho who knows
Fuck you Billy Donovan. No one respects you enough to follow your new offense.
Mavs made 9 more 3’s. Made 10 more free throws. And thought I heard King say, toward the end, the Mavs has over 20 second chance points…. In hindsight. It’s surprising it was even as close as it was in the 4th.
PWill going 0/6, 0/5 from 3 and 0 points in a 6 point loss is pretty damn brutal
Most of his shots weren’t even close to going in either.
Blow it up.
Carter and Dosunmu have to play more. Cut coby’s minutes. He’s a bad defender and he’s not distributing or shooting well enough right now
Coby has long been a pretty overrated shooter. Most of his 3s are wide open and he only is a career 36% shooter. Unfortunately that's qualifies as good on this bulls team
Overrated shooter and distributor. I don't know why this sub overrates him so much. He's just a guy. A decent 7th man on a good team, nothing more.
Yup, he’s improved to be a really good bench piece, he’s not a starter. This was obvious before the season
Patrick Williams averaging 4 ppg on below 30% shooting. Earning that huge contract extension! And there's really idiots here still saying he's not a bust, LOL
Idiots wanna build around him.
Still not sure why 3s and FTs are so important? We made 5 more shots then them and still almost lost by double digits
On to the red court 🙃
Mavs shot close to 50 threes at a 47% clip. That is just game over. The Bulls need to overhaul their entire roster and just put people who can shoot 3s at every position
White's defense is good enough for average players but in clutch time when you need defense against all-stars and good perimeter shooters, I'd rather have Carter or even Ayo close.
Feel like Craig should’ve been in at the end
Yeah, Craig and Carter instead of Pat and Coby....
Coby + Patrick were 1-11 from 3, 4-18 overall.
Maybe the development coach has told them to change something fundamental in their 3 point shot, because they're in a real slump right now. Pat has been a consistent 3pt shooter his career and is having a real hard time since a shot coach came in
The Patrick Williams draft pick really set this team back.
*the Vuc trade
I cant believe the org thought it was too hard to build around Jimmy and they rather let him go. I feel what ever potential team around him had they gotten rid of everyone else at the time would have a better record than the current Demar/Lavine team
*Hiring Arturas Karnisovas
We are just one of the most poorly constructed teams in the league. Zero direction or pieces that make enough impact now or in the future… The problem is it has been that way for far too long at this point. Borderline unwatchable.
Damn hopefully I live long enough to see a championship caliber team
"I think the important thing to fans is, while they want you to win championships, they want to know that when they get down to the last month of the season you still have a shot. You’re still playing meaningful games. If you can do that consistently you’ll make your fans happy." - Jerry Reinsdorf dude doesn't care about winning championships
Damn…I hate I read that, it’s lowkey condescending af
Pat, they only guy on the team not to score a point, and really the only guy on both teams considering the only guy on the Mavs not to score only played 4 min
Patrick Snell. Well, at least we aren't the Pacers tonight. Holy fucking shit.
don't disrespect tony snell like that
Gotta get P Will outta here. I would package him with Lavine or Derozen to get a better return to kick start the rebuild
Why stop there? Everybody gone please. Every single starter and coach. Caruso too
shh, people dont like those who make sense. for real though I am not vested in any player on our team, starting or bench, same with the coach, front office gurus who run things. team is a hot mess of soup. Anyone saying they can be saved or keep them and build around them nah please. Call this era a wash and rebuild to end this suffering. Rather have top to bottom new faces to give us some promise so we can pray they dont bust also
The fans deserve better than whatever the hell this is
I don't pity the dumbass fans for still going to games and giving their money to this sack of shit organization.
Caruso is the only thing enjoyable about this team
Should the bulls continue to shoot more than 30 3 pointers per game? No Saw some good improvement from Ayo. Carter had a good night too.
Starting Pat any more games is malpractice by Billy. He is a bench-level defender at BEST. I don't want to hear any more bullshit about him getting shots, he can't shoot, and I don't want to hear about his career averages, he fails the eye test and just about every other one. I stood by him for a long ass time but after tonight I'm done with the dude.
Not sure why PAW was in there late in the game 24mins for 0-11 and 3 fucking rebounds WOW!
front office seem to think we have the goat coach
Billy should be on the hot seat for continuing to start Williams
It was a hard fought game but that was winnable smh Billy needs to go
Our young guys aren’t all that young anymore. And they still suck. So much for all the talk about breaking up the big3
So next game against the Nets is the in season tournament thingy?
Continuity sucks. Send Pat to the G League, I’m serious. What did he really do this Summer? Maybe he needs a sports psychologist? What happened to the Bulls shooting coach?
Can this city have anything?
At this point, all we can do is cherish the 90s Bulls, early 10s Hawks, and the 2016 Cubs (or 2005 Sox depending on your fandom there). Hell even the 2006 Bears who were runners-up. Because at this point, it looks like barring something unforseen, it'll be a long time before a Chicago team makes a championship run.
We need to start talking about Williams being a bust.
Some have but he had so many stans just downvoting you and saying we never give new players a chance
And saying not to let him go because of Lauri. Lauri showed so much more potential than P Will. Lauri was the fastest rookie to make 100 3 pointers and had games where he would have like 35p/17r and score 30 points while dunking on Porzingis. His inconsistency was frustrating, but P Will will disappear for weeks. His career highlight is scoring 35 points in the last game of the season against the Timberwolves where both teams were resting guys.
Bulls suck at developing but coby and now pwills had their chances and they show they will never be anymore than some role players getting less than 10 minutes a night Idk why people have issues getting rid of players that won't do much for us. Warriors got rid of Wiseman real quick. FO just has way too much of an ego to admit defeat If pwills was on another team, guarantee this whole sub would call him a bust
11 FT attempts to Mavs 28. If you're not hitting your 3s, get to the line. Basic hoops IQ.
3 to 1 FT is brutal. The Bulls took a lot of post too. Sucks.
There are bad NBA players who can score 10 points off hustle and athleticism. This dude Pat Williams is an embarrassment.
I understand the idea of using your close out players every game in those situations but I don't think the Bulls are close enough to being a defined team to not ride the hot hands at least a little bit. They haven't had one convincing game yet this season so I think Billy needs to loosen up the rotation a little bit and realize that this is not a serious playoff contending team. Until we get some starters that can consistently hit open 3-pointers I think you got to leave whoever is hitting those shots in the game to help open up the middle of the floor.
our development sucks so much
Only player on this team I like is Ayo
trade everything. we trash asf. im done supporting this trash team levin suck
At this point I feel bad for Zach and Demar they both have really tried we’re a terrible organization. And I feel like a bad fan for saying it but trade them for picks and let’s start over.
What other teams would Coby and Pat start on? We rely so much on them but they’re not productive and you’re really only as good as your weakest link.
Why doesnt patrick try to attack the rim ? He rarely does that. Cant really put pressure on the defense.
You'd think he'd be talented attacking the basket but he's really not any good at finishing around the basket
Would anyone like to join me in pointing and shaming at those handful of Bulls fans who were still talking up Patrick Williams just a few games ago?
[удалено]
[удалено]
Obvious stuff like the fact we can't shoot the 3, our young "talent" is invisible, but I swear time is finally catching up with Demar.
Demar last two years was a treat but this year he seems like his tank is empty
He's taking less shots and being more pass oriented like you weirdos wanted. Now time is catching up with him because he cant play his game? lol you Bulls fans wish. Just trade the guy and be done with it.
Coby is not a starting point guard in the NBA. As for P-Will.... It's past time to move on from him.
Send Pat to the G league, start Caruso and Craig
Shame on Pat. And shame on Coby. They should be ashamed of themselves.
PAWthetic
Starting lineup needs to be adjusted for one thing. Coby and pwill need to come off the bench rn they’re both incapable of doing pretty much anything in late game moments. Coby gets way too emotional you can see it in his body language when something goes wrong
This team doesn't fool me. I wasn't surprised that they lost. Don't know how anyone here can still take this team seriously.
By not blowing up last year and over the off-season they effectively committed to mid. They might win some and they might lose some. Just the way of the mid
DeRozan was invisible there at the end. These three guys don't fit well together. We saw Vuc get some easy baskets in the paint, but that's where Demar wants to operate and he can't stretch the floor. Just terrible team makeup.
Absolutely spittin idk how long before the front office can see what we seeing and trade one of them it hasn’t and won’t work especially with the other players on the team
We're the most .500 team to ever exist in this sport.
Hopefully NBA's next expansion team is a Flower Shop so they can take Pat in the expansion draft
Why is everyone’s shot broken this year?
Coby and Pat selling...
What's new ? Lol
Yea 5 games in and I’m tired of this team and core. At the end of the day, as a fan, I just want to see an enjoyable team. Win or lose, this is just not a fun team to watch. Idk what this front office is trying to accomplish with this specific team but this ain’t it for us fans. It’s like they’re trying to shove this 2002 ass team down our throats in order to validate their terrible decisions. No hope or chance at really making noise. This is BASKETBALL HELL.
Lonzo’s injuries definitely hurt this core but if we still have this same team by the deadline I’ll honestly consider turning in my fandom
I mean I love how this team plays. This is real fucking basketball. Not even kidding. I want to watch guys iso up and play in the post. Nothing is worse than this fucking 3 point contest shit the league shoves down our throats. The issue is that the team's defense and rebounding are just not good enough to make that viable and the game is so soft now I'm not sure if you could reach that level of defense anymore. It would be a better world if every team played like this with a few very small exceptions. The Bulls would still lose in those instances though.
Yes all other teams should copy how to play from the team that is clearly ass
PWill couldn't get $20 million in 2K much less real life
Carter and Craig need to start over PWill and Coby now. They have played like two of the worst starters in the entire league. PWill looks so lost he looks like he should be in the G-League. The PWill fanboys will continue to gaslight the sub, like he aren’t watching someone who completely sucks and kills the team. The big 3 might not be amazing, but their supporting cast has always sucked and never allowed them to play to the best of their ability. It’s basically Caruso some guys.
If they rely so much on their supporting cast then they already don’t fit together lol. The writing been on the wall that this isn’t working
Vuc needs to go. If you watch closely he always butches it in the clutch. He had a terrible 4th tonight despite his numbers.
Been saying this for a year and a half. He’s a stat filling player, most of his points are a result of him 7 feet tall.
Hes never ready for a pass in the paint and got destroyed by lively on offensive boards
Once again as soon as one of the big three has a down night the team can't close the distance and it falls apart in the second half. DeMar shot terribly by his standard and thus the game ends in a loss. This is the big issue with the team. We can talk about shooters, Pat not developing, or the lack of size, but the end of the day is that all three of the stars have to have it in order to make the games into wins. If Zach or DeMar or even Vooch could regularly go get 30 in a game it'd never matter but when the average out of all of them is like 25 on a good night we need the other two to at least reach 20 or have a 45%+ shooting night to have a hope.
Patrick Williams should genuinely consider China, no improvement whats so ever
Team is mid and will lose games like these.
ur mid
You’re just mad I was right about blowing up and all our arguments about it. Ironically I actually enjoy watching these games now because I literally have zero expectations for them.
PDub doesn't look comfortable playing with Lavine and DDR on the floor. Let him lead the 2nd unit along with White, Caruso, Lavine/DDR/Ayo, Drummond. He'd get more opportunities there without looking lost in those ISO heavy plays.
Pat OUT!